I spent so much time worrying about the “message” of Joker and how director Todd Phillips is garbage that I was somewhat unprepared for this: Joker is a huge financial success. And I was completely unprepared for this conversation: now that Joker is a huge success, does that mean we can’t talk sh-t about the movie? If anything, the reviews of Joker coming out of the August and September film festivals were more positive about the movie, and then the general reviews happened last week and many of them made the film sound like nihilistic garbage (garbage anchored by a great performance by Joaquin Phoenix). But all of the bad reviews and bulls–t from Todd Phillips and conversations about incels and violence all helped the film become the best-ever October opening in history:
The box office debut of Joker, Todd Phillips’ latest film starring Joaquin Phoenix as one of modern history’s most famous comic-book supervillains, was no joke. Setting a new high for the month of October, the Warner Bros. film raked in $93.5 million domestically and $140.5 million overseas over the weekend for a global start of $234 million. (That’s without China, where the movie is unlikely to be released because of its bleak, nihilistic themes.)
In the U.S., the R-rated origin pic sparked widespread security concerns in the days leading up to its release on Friday, prompting cinemas across the country to ramp up security the film’s opening weekend, including an increased police presence and ID checks (an R rating means that anyone under 17 must be accompanied by a parent or adult). And some cinemas, such as AMC Theatres and Alamo Drafthouse, warned parents that Joker isn’t an ordinary Hollywood superhero movie.
So, there we are. I didn’t see the movie – I read a comprehensive, spoiler-filled review/analysis of it and that was it for me. I hope I never have to see it. But I may need to see it, because with this kind of opening and “controversy,” that means Joaquin probably will get nominated for an Oscar. And he might even be one of the “favorites” at this point in the Oscar race. Congrats, Joker-watchers. You just ensured that we’ll be seeing gritty, violent origin stories of all the comic book villains.
Photos courtesy of Warner Bros.
I doubt he’ll be a serious contender for an Oscar based on a super hero movie. Honestly, I doubt they’d have given Heath one despite his impressive performance if he hadn’t died. Superhero type movies still aren’t really taken that seriously.
Black Panther was taken very seriously.
Which – it should have been compared to other superhero movies. But at the same time, I think a lot of the reason was to make up for #oscarssowhite. I do wonder if they’d have seriously considered it had the year prior not gone the way it did. I think it should have been considered, but I don’t think the people making the calls for what films are recognized particularly give a f— about inclusiveness.
When you can give ONE example that is an exception not the norm. Hero movies are rarely is ever nominated for BP, acting or director. A few nods may be given for special effects or the dynamics but rarely for actually honoring the pic.
There’s nothing about superheroes in this movie.
This isn’t a comic book film, nor a super hero film. This is a film about a working class white man, with an ill mother, a shitty existence, no skills whatsoever, he is completely ignored and bullied consistently, needs meds but government funding is cut so bye bye social help and meds. It’s also about class divides, the rich not giving two shits about the less fortunate, etc.
Joaquin will be nominated, and rightfully so. His performance is brilliant. And I do not approve of this movies’ message concerning mental illnesses.
Cee, that is the most accurate and succinct description of the movie I’ve read so far. Joaquin’s performance is nothing short of brilliant – even if you don’t agree with the movie’s theme, you can’t deny his stellar performance. The cinematography was excellent and the musical score was outstanding. I don’t see how the movie can be overlooked as a real Oscar contender.
I haven’t fully digested the movie’s message. There are so many ways to look at the commentary being made here. Yes, there’s mental illness but there’s also commentary on how society views and treats those on the margins, not just those who are mentally ill. This includes the poor, the disabled, the elderly, etc.
I fully agree with you. I enjoyed the movie even though I felt so uncomfortable. The guy I saw it with (a movie/tv director and movie buff) had the same feeling. You are meant to be uncomfortable because the subject at hand is uncomfortable.
I’ll see it again with my BIL as there was too much to unpack. Joaquin is brilliant in this film, just as you’ve said, and the cinematography was excellent. Perhaps I’ve focused too much on the mental illness angle, because I myself suffer from depression and anxiety and I hate it when people try to justify extreme behaviour with mental illness. I am in no way saying Arthur Speck is not unbalanced nor victim to his own childhood trauma and subsequent mental illness just that I feel his mental illness is used to justify his behaviour, his delusions and whatever monstrosities he wrote in his journal.
To be fair, you can be mentally ill and a bad person as well. I don’t think portraying people with mentally illness as human and flawed is always a bad thing. Was mental illness the entire justification?
Algernon, below, thought they did. That’s disappointing and counterproductive. Not that a lot about the movie left me with high hopes.
Also, highlighting the importance of treatment (making sure cost is not a barrier to access, ect) is not a bad thing either.
A disturbing number of people apparently took little children to see it.
@Cee
I agree, it’s a lot to unpack. I plan to see it again. My son is bi-polar so my feelings are so mixed about the message.
@Lindsay – yes, I agree, you can be a bad person and be mentally ill – just like you can have a mental illness and be a good person.
Thank you – this really puts it into context. I saw it yesterday with my husband and we still both can’t quite put into our words our thoughts about it.
It’s uncomfortable, dark and in many ways, sad but, my overriding sense is that it is a commentary more based on how society is operating – the have’s and the have not’s and not much is left in between for anyone.
And yes, Joaquin is incredible and I really think he will be nominated and should be, in my opinion.
Saw it yesterday and Joaquin was just….spectacular. He is no doubt after this part the best actor period outside of Daniel day lewis. Didn’t expect it to be so much about mental illness and the descent into a breakdown. It was Taxi driver mixed in with a social class message. The Line “no one cares about me” from Arthur and then the social worker said “no one cares about us”, was the big message of the movie. It wasn’t about “white men”, the big rug underneath was how the mentally ill, poor and abused are forgotten and thrown away by society.
Saw “Joker” the night before last. While the ‘inspiration’ for this film may have come from what you call a “superhero” comic book story, it has no relationship to any of the DC or Marvel type of films. None whatsoever. Phoenix is remarkable in it. It’s literally a breathtaking performance. However, the movie is so disturbing I’d struggle recommending it to anyone, regardless of how good ticket sales are. It’s a difficult film to watch, and for me at least, I found there wasn’t a great deal of payoff for all that difficulty and squirming. A theme of economic inequality that emerged in the later parts of the film was however interesting and timely. Flip a coin to decide if you’ll go, if you do at least Phoenix won’t disappoint.
Joaquin used to be one of my favs. Between this, the weird VF interview, the Casey Affleck stuff…. I’ve come to realize he’s just another 90s crush letdown
So is this film truly an origin story? Like, does this sad clown incel Joaquin plays eventually become THEE Joker from Batman?
I’m shocked it did so well at the box office. I thought all the beefed up security would deter people.
Yes, it’s an origin story about how a guy becomes the Joker because he is mentally ill (seriously, they blame everything on mental illness ugh). His actions also cause the Waynes to be murdered, so he is responsible for creating Batman, too.
Thanks Algernon. I wasn’t sure if Batman was part of the movie in any way.
I saw the movie and thought it was amazing.
He didn’t become the Joker because of mental illness, he became the Joker because of the way society treated him.
This film has generated so much talk and so many polarising opinions, those of us who have no interest in seeing it, will have to see it. The first rule of meaningful conversation is to have all the information which means getting to know the original source. This is the only way to argue your opinion. So yeah…. will probably have to see it because I already saw very different opinions among my friends on social media on this.
Luckily I am past the point of having to argue my position. I don’t like violent white men. I won’t see films about violent white men. So, this weather, am i right?
I don’t like violent men period!
I don’t like violent men either. but I don’t think watching a movie about a villain means you approve of his behavior. I loved django unchained, my favorite character in that movie was that sadist madman played by dicaprio. does that mean I like sadists? no. it means I think that was a great character and dicaprio played it brilliantly. I will watch this movie and then I will have an opinion about it because if I base my opinion on guessing and supposing stuff, that’d make my opinion invalid.
Perfectly fine position, daisysharp.
Also, there are Lots of ways to educate oneself on uncomfortable topics, and get a broader perspective, and a more solution-oriented perspective, than feeding a blockbuster. Bring better information to your arguments. Be so careful about narratives spread.
Hahahaahhaahhaha wow, is this really how you’re defending your desire to see this dumb movie?
I have no intention of watching this movie and I won’t, but I don’t see what’s illogical about saying you need to watch a movie first if you want to talk crap about it.
Mina, how about not being so condescending? If you have no desire to see the movie or don’t like the messaging, fair enough! I think it’s important to have discussions about how art influences life but I also believe that art shouldn’t be censored. If someone wishes to see a movie for performances and an exploration of humanity, no matter how vile, fair enough! People who watch this movie and have their own opinions, positive or negative, do not have to justify to anyone else.
Yep, I sure did see it before commenting – by downloading illegally. Todd Phillips will never get a cent of my money.
LOL. Stop.
lol I’m with Marie
Good for you. The royalties from this film not only support a director who thinks “paging Doctor F–got” is the height of comedy but also provide money to Gary Glitter who raped children. I know where my dollar ISN’T going.
Eh, yeah. Good solution, Maria 🙂 (artist speaking, here. I approve wholeheartedly.)
I will not need to be sensorily and emotionally terrorized by this DERIVATIVE, violent, dark, freak-show, sausagefest about a man/boy who lives in his mom’s basement until he becomes evil incarnate. Unfortunately, we can watch the news for that and skip the adolescent/comic book clown shtick. I too have read extensively the reviews and synopsis’ and the three constants are that Phoenix is a good actor, the movie is gratuitously violent (I’m not a 15 year old gamer), and that the references and rip-offs are rampant. Next!
I watched it and like it. I dont think its the best movie ever. I thought it was really depressing but it touched some subjects like mental illness and the indifference from society towards that. And Joaquin was excellent.
I watched and didn’t get the buzz around it. It was very violent but the concerns around the movie are just fake outrage. Someone on Twitter made a death count and turns out Bruce Wayne kills more people in BvS than the joker.
People need to calm down. You’re giving the movie more credit and exposure than it deserves.
*Marketing campaign*
100% Dee. I saw it and thought it was good. The points that it’s being criticized for are way overhyped by blogs/Twitter, in my opinion.
I saw it last night and thought it was excellent. So much commentary on the attitude in this country right now, especially in regard to class divides, access to mental health help, etc.
It is so much more than a “comic book movie”.
Joaquin is amazing, truly. He may be a bizarre dude in real life, but his acting abilities should never be doubted.
It’s no more violent than a million other movies, in fact much less than I was anricipating based on the ridiculous amount of controversy that seems to be stirred up.
It’s an uncomfortable watch, much the same as something like Requiem for a Dream was. So, it might not appeal to everybody, and that’s fine.
Agree 100% with everything you said. I think people need to see the movie before they make up their minds about it. There is a story behind why psychopaths are the way they are, whether people like it or not. I think the movie is interesting from a psychoanalytic point of view, and the way I saw it, the movie doesn’t blame society for Arthur Fleck/Joker’s actions – he just did.
Anne, I haven’t seen the film but psychopaths are born the way they are and sociopaths are made.
+2.
I liked it a lot as well. It wasnt a perfect movie. They could have done more with Zazie Beetz for instance and some of the Thomas Wayne stuff I think could have been better, but I overall really liked it and thought Joaquin knocked it out of the park. His character is very layered and even before his transformation to the Joker where he’s a bit more shy, there is still something always “off” and uneasy about him. I thought he played the role brilliantly and definitely deserves to be in the talks for awards consideration.
In terms of the violence, its mostly gun violence. It feels more realistic…but at the same time…its not super gory or anything. Not anymore than like a gangster film you would see by like Scorsese.
It hinted hard, about Reagan (aka the government) cutting funding for mentally ill. Its mentioned several times in the movie.
Well said Karen. I saw the movie twice this past week and was totally blown away by it. Absolutely the best movie I’ve seen this year.
I’m not seeing it
Well, I liked it.
A. Lot.
Micheal Moore wrote an interesting post about this film, how now in the time of Trump/guns galore/rich getting richer that this film has an important message.
I haven’t seen it yet so can’t comment but several intelligent and thoughtful friends have seen it and reported positively
michael moore said he was rooting for the violent psychopath, so…
See, another dude I don’t feel compelled to “debate”. His opinion is so uninteresting. I don’t like violent psychopaths and I don’t root for them. So, about this weather, am I right?
You’re right.
I’m surprised at all the pearl clutching about the violence in this movie. We’re all just gonna pretend all of the other superhero movies aren’t inherently violent? Fancy super suits don’t stop them from either being violent or receiving violence.
It’s not about violence. It’s about violence propagated by a sad lonely white man, which is what already happens in the real world. It’s so nice you feel sad for Arthur, do you feel the same way about all the white incels who have taken out their murderous rage on the masses?
Agree Mina, I just don’t think this movie was necessary. I’m sure stories come up all the time and producers say “no, too soon”…well, this is just too soon after all the mass shootings and I really don’t think there will ever again be a time and place for it. But, I guess they made a bunch of money, that’s what’s important to these Hollywood people.
God forbid someone make a movie about something that happens in the real world!
I’m just thinking about how I would feel if one of my family members/friends was a victim of a mass shooting by some psychopath. There are plenty of real world stories that are made into movies. I could suggest many…and I don’t watch movies that often.
Mina, what a ridiculous comment. This article literally uses the word violent in it’s headline, and they’re not the only ones. I didn’t say i felt bad for arthur, I’ve not even seen the movie and don’t plan to. But thanks for playing?
Your comments in this thread are very telling and I’d offer you a xanax but i think you’d have a knee jerk reaction to that, too. Sorry your Avengers movies are violent. 🤷♀️
And victims of mass shootings dont have to watch if it makes them uncomfortable. Just like someone who has PTSD from the war doesnt have to watch war flicks if it makes them uncomfortable.
I very much like Mina’s comment: white Male entitlement….is American violence.
Putting it into money-making terms gives them permission to continue.
This is not hard to understand.
“Congrats, Joker-watchers. You just ensured that we’ll be seeing gritty, violent origin stories of all the comic book villains”. – you’re welcome.
+1. I would watch more of the Marvel/DC movies if they were as well done and well acted as this one.
Powerful acting. Very realistic about the assholes not giving a crap about people with mental illness and him going off his meds. Society expects you to be a certain way but won’t help you do it. I personally know this.
ITA!
@Raina:
Precisely.
“The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t.” (quote from Fleck’s notebook).
That phrase resonated with me. I almost cried-chocked into my popcorn.
You know what’s interesting though is that I loved the performances and had a strange reaction where I wasn’t positive whether or not I liked the movie and yet, I want to see it again. Odd.
Yes, same. The combination of mental illness, social ills, lack of support in either the community or in financial terms can wrought horrible consequences in an individual and on a larger scale. It’s a difficult subject but shouldn’t be off limits to explore.
I completely agree with the content of bordermollies comment- strongly feel the “joker” theme was an intellectually lazy rip-off way, right now, to do it. They’re creative people. I believe they are aware of the “potential” audience to be catered to. So, shame.
I adored the movie. It was absolutely captivating. I don’t understand the incel talk as the movie has nothing to do with that at all. The violence was very little. Talking about violence , what movie doesn’t have violence in it?!
Joaquin was mesmerizing. The commentary about mental health , class divides , family dynamics , and interpersonal relationships was on point.
I highly recommend the movie.
Reads like a bot-generated pr post.
I watched this Friday night with a guy I’m dating and I was so effing uncomfortable the whole time. Some things were very predictable.
Joaquin Phoenix gave an impressive performance – he is VERY GOOD as Arthur, pre Joker. Photography was wonderful as well.
However, as someone with a mental illness (anxiety and depression) it was very hard for me to sit through a film that uses a mental illness as justification for what the Joker is/becomes. Mental illness doesn’t make you a mass murderer, nor violent. That’s my crux with this film.
Going off youe meds CAN make people do terrible things. Mental illness CAN cause people to do terrible things.
Just because YOU don’t experience mental illness in those ways does not mean that others experience it the same way.
Not all mentally ill people are psychopaths (the movie didn’t try to say they are)
It really did as they showed Arthur unstable even WITH meds and (shitty) therapy.
Good performance, silly film. Violence against women and POC to be expected. White men turning it into a “message about mental health” as if any of them cared about this issue before their incel fantasy came to film. Typical.
Very happy for Joaquin Phoenix.
Very happy for the man who used to date a teenager until a few years ago and helped Casey Affleck in his quest to demean and assault women? How cute.
Oh, why? Thank you!
Yeah, Phoenix was a good pick for the part
C’mon, Mina, be nice. You’re attacking Eve. Stop
I don’t plan on watching this for a number of reasons, a big reason being it is not a comic book movie. Phillips himself said he made a “serious” movie under the guise of a comic book movie. There is already this nonsensical elitism surrounding comic book movies, and this will just invite people to mock it even more. I’m not a fan of the violence, but it’s not really the violence many people are objecting to, but the realism. Violence in other movies are usually so out there they are impossible, but this feels like it could happen and for many that is off putting, but all this talk feels like it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Phillips and Scorsese are elitist assholes.
The violence in this movie is not very realistic. It’s like any of the John Wick movies or something such. And there’s really not that much of it.
Saw the movie yesterday. Its very good but i do see the dangers of people interpreting it very wrong. I dont think its the incel-propaganda I thought it would be but its Im sure some incels will still fall in love and be inspired.
I live in Finland and even here they checked everyone’s bags when going in the theatre so at least people are preparing for possible violence resulting from the movie. (The searches might also have been inspired by a school attack we had last week)
Joaquin performance was good, but nothing special. If you follow awards season, you may spot one or two methods per year. Imo Ledger was better as Joker, because he included every detail, like walking, hands gesturing, even every emotion, Phoenix just played the scene like he felt it today, but these “body language” wasn’t really repetitive, like normal people do, even with mental illness, you may not consciously see that, but your body do that.
The script was awful, it was a rip-off of Taxi driver, and I hated that. The scene on talk show summaries whole movie: Joker whines that people don’t understand his humour, guest woman! says that it’s not funny (just like Phillips whined that “woke” people killed comedies, here woman represents “woke” people), than Joker continues with “we live in society”, mashed up with the exact theme from The Dark Knight when The Joker had been telling to the Batman on the roof that “ordinary people eat each other, you just need a little push”. So new and fresh for future Oscars contender, Warner Bros.
This movie doesn’t glorify violence, but it says that people kill other because of the mental illness, especially white men. This comment is straight, without breaking this with argument “this city just showed you that not everyone is like you” ( Batman to The Joker, from The Dark Knight). You know who else comes out with idea that mass shooters kill others because of the mental illness? Conservative media in USA, and recently it was Donald Trump who said it after one of the recent shootings, probably in Texas. Same argument was presented when that nazi guy shot people in mosque in New Zealand. So yeah, incels, and other white guys, who are mad at society, and want to kill people, are just misunderstood and sick. Anger, what anger? I don’t know her.
I wish good luck to Joaquin at award’s season, but if the movie, or creators (Philips and screenwriters) will get noms, it’s says that we have a long way to go. Call me “woke”, but I just prefer to name things like they are: this movie is average Oscar bait, it won’t bring something new to a superhero genre (because The Dark Knight and Logan already exist), and white men (and that who made terrorist attacks in Europe) aren’t mentally ill (mostly), they are just mad that their opinions aren’t counted like the only one, and they aren’t glorified for just being born white, or male, or both.
I felt sorry to Arthur during watching movie, if he’d be real person, he needed medical help, and being taken from his mom when he was just a kid. But it wasn’t a society who failed him, it was government. Funny, because most people who do these crimes in real life, don’t blame Donald, or Angela in their problems, they blame already marginalized groups, like POC, or women, or LGBT, or Muslim, who are underrepresented in that places where attacks like that in NZ happened.
The Dark Knight is the best comprehensive comic book film for a number of reasons – and one of those is that the Joker is an interesting complex character without needing anyone to feel sorry for him.
That’s entire point of good villain, imo, you should feel afraid of him, no matter how tragic theirs backstory is. Joker in The Killing joke, this movie mashes up story with other adopted stories, is scary psycho, even if his backstory is losing pregnant wife, career and being betrayed. Arthur just had a bad life and needs a good treatment and a good therapist.
Yeah, I’m sick of conservatives talking out of one side of their mouth, saying white shooters are caused by mental illness and video games. They don’t have those excuses when they bring up “Chicago.” And the violence there. It kinda baffles me, I’ve met many people from Chicago and they love it. I’m really sickened by many people in my race.
This is the best Joker Performance ever. Jouquin complex interpretation of a mentally ill man on the brink of mental collapse is Oscar worthy. His performance is brilliant and nuanced like Robert De Niro’s in Taxi Driver.
I saw it this weekend, I have AMC A-List so didn’t spend money for this movie. I liked it and didn’t think it was so violent, I mean I think Game of Thrones, John Wick, American Horror Story are more violent and I like those shows/movies. Most of the people he killed were assholes. I do not agree with the director about the far left, thought his comments were stupid.
I think this was to be expected. Superhero movies always make a lot of money, and this movie was given a lot of free publicity. I’m pretty sure a lot of people went to watch this movie just to see if it really was the violent incel fantasy people are making it out to be or not.
I have no intention of watching it because I’m done with pretentious superhero movies taking themselves too seriously. I didn’t like The Dark Knight, I don’t see how I’d like something like this. Maybe I’ll watch it on cable next year.
“The Joker” is one of the most iconic characters in comic book lore…and a movie with a dream of a full-court PR press that’s been running for months…plus it opened in October when audiences are on a SERIOUS summer movie action bash withdrawal….
The Joker followed the EXACT same blueprint as “Venom”…down to the release date….and just like with “Venom”…it paid off….
The Joker is the most popular/well known supervillain in the world. Saying you don’t expect a movie about him to be successful is like saying you don’t expect a movie about Spider-Man to be successful. The success of comic book movies, which this is even if it has a different than the norm tone, is never dependent on quality. Bad comic book movies succeed all the time just because the characters are popular. Joker is not even a bad comic book movie, it’s a mostly good one with some problematic elements (like most comic book movies).
I read all the reviews and commentary about it and was set not to watch or support it financially. My husband sees every comic book/superhero movie and wants to watch it (and will). People who are comic book superhero fans are going to watch every comic book superhero movie that comes out regardless of reviews. It’s just what they do. It’s almost a foolproof investment that’s why studios keep making like 7 a year.
I saw the movie yesterday, and it’s not the incel inspro sites are making it out to be. The Joker character isn’t a realistic portrayal of mental illness and is written with over-the-top affectations, ultimately coming across as a comic character. As an aside, although the film suggests the Joker had a mental illness, spoiler- it’s revealed his issues stem from a traumatic head injury sustained as a child, which is a different thing, not a mental illness. I guess they didn’t run the script by a medical professional. The main thrust of the story-telling is that the Joker and his mother live in abject poverty amidst a populace repressed by the elite- that’s the theme. It’s a “99%” story. The movie highlights the lack of basic social services available to the Joker and his mother (lack of food, good housing, mental health services) and draws a connection between that and the desperate state of Gotham’s populace. As in other Joker portrayals, or the Bane portrayal, the main character inspires Gotham’s impoverished to rise up against the elite. The tone of this film was more similar to the Dark Knight movies, and it’s the first DC that I have liked since those films. TLDR, if this is incel inspro, then so are all the other films about bad guys in opposition to (fictional) society.
childhood trauma, as that endured by Arthur as a child, can cause mental illness. Just saying.
I, for one, did not find Arthur Speck remotely funny or comedic, quite the contrary.
This movie was excellent and I hope Joaquin wins every major award under the sun.
+1
It wasn’t a good movie. It wasn’t interesting. It overly relied on external context, Taxi Driver, King of Comedy, grimy late 70s/early 80s New York, stereotypes about mental illness etc. It had no plot or thematic unity. Joaquin did an excellent job, but his character was a sum of quirks and ticks, albeit wonderfully acted, with a handful of contrivances substituting for character development. If a lesser actor had the lead, I think this movie would be more clearly seen for the steaming pile of creatively void, derivative crap that it is. This is just my two cents and not a personal attack if you liked it.
I think people should watch the movie before passing judgement. I’ve only heard good things about it, but I’m gonna see it later and come to my own conclusion. Also, anyone surprised that a movie about the Joker, which is one of the most popular comic villians of all time, is doing well at the box office is not bright. People were gonna see this movie regardless of all the incel & violence talk.
I think a lot depends on why you go to the movies. Right now, I am not in the mood for a movie that is going to challenge/reinforce the negative elements in our world. Phoenix is a great actor, but no thanks.
I refuse to watch a movie that is essentially a pity party for incels.
except it has nothing to do with incels
I haven’t seen it, but is it really a pity party for incels? My impression is that we are never supposed to think the Joker is a “hero” or anything other than a villain (regardless of what *he* feels “drove” him to it). On the other hand, I think Downton Abbey is clearly a glorification of the 1%-ers, and we are supposed to see *them* as heroes and not villains. At least this movie lets the villain be seen as a villain.
@kaiser can you share the link for the review (with spoilers) you mentioned? youve piqued my curiosity =)
I, personally, don’t understand how anyone would say they will not watch this movie based off someone else’s opinion alone, without watching the movie themselves to determine if they agree or disagree with this movie. That being said, I do not understand the whole controversy behind this film. It is not about incels, it is not about glorifying “white male violence”, or mass murders. Not in the least, to me at least. This movie has so many aspects to it, that I think all of the people that immediately want to boycott it, miss entirely. It highlights how lacking society is in term of helping those with mental health issues, and how funding is cut. Leaving those that need it the most, with nothing to help. It highlights the class divide between the haves and the have nots. It highlights how the media will cover crime stories about the privileged over those that come from poor backgrounds. How the media will sit there, and talk about the privileged as if they are saints. It highlights what long term abuse, and trauma can do to a person. It highlights hypocrisy of human nature. There is a deep message in this movie, if people don’t let other opinions jade the movie. In terms of violence, John Wick 3, and all those shoot em up movies, have FAR MORE violence. I just think this movie makes people uncomfortable.
+1
I agree Nicole Le. I respect anyone who says they don’t want to see the movie but you can’t have a truly informed opinion if you don’t see it for yourself.
yes, the movie is very uncomfortable to watch but not because of the violence. It’s a deep topic that’s layered in mental illness, mistreatment, trauma, and apathy, and downright disdain. It’s one cringe-worthy scene after another. There are no light-hearted moments for the viewer to rest and reset.
Even better news – child rapist Gary Glitter now gets a ton of royalties for the use of his song in this film.
Todd Phillips doesn’t care about mental or physical health, lol.
OMG, that song was awesome for that particular scene and now I’m deleting it from my playlist.
Could you tell me who was the better Joker? The tragedy behind Heath performance..
Some of these comments are really bordering on pro-censorship. It’s actually pretty disheartening. I haven’t seen Joker and I may not ever watch it but I sure hell believe in the filmmakers right to make it and people’s right to see it if they choose. I really don’t want anyone telling me what art is and isn’t appropriate for my consumption.
+1
It’s the adulation of actors that’s getting to me. So many have this man on a pedestal because he can act. BFD. When did acting become more worthy of praise than teachers, doctors, front line workers, authors, soldiers etc.? It truly puzzles me that some use actors/actresses as their heros.
I don’t think anyone is saying JP is a hero just very good in this film. I’ll see it eventually but I’m not in the mood to see it right now.
I can’t wait to see it. Also I don’t get the sudden controversy regarding violence. Have people been watching American movies for the past 50 years of what? Violence is so ingrained in 99% of American movies that I’m honestly curious as to why this movie has suddenly made people uncomfortable with watching violence?
Why this movie and not Terminator or Gladiator or Saving Private Ryan or Lethal Weapon or Alien or any James Bond movie for that matter?
I mean I totally agree that the amount of violence present in entertainment is actually horrifying but I’m confused as to why people are only NOW realizing that that’s the case?
P.S. How many people were killed in the Avengers and everyone thought it was fun?
This film was absolutely fantastic imho and I’ll be buying it when it’s realeased
This film has nothing to do with incels holy shit stop bringing that up.
JP was fantastic
It shows the horrors that can be created from abuse, the loss of access to medication, economic differences, discarding the mentally ill like trash etc.
The violence is no different then most movies and less than most marvel films
I saw the film last night, having read so many reviews and articles – including this one – and the film that I saw was not the film the reviews have made it out to be.
Kaiser, I really think you should watch it.
It was incredible – at times heartbreaking and difficult to watch – but beautiful. Phoenix’s performance was nothing short of breathtaking. I’m still processing the film and the many layers, but I feel that it is an absolute must-see.