I’ve always loved Rachel Weisz. She just seems so cool, so genuine, so talented. The fact that she basically ran off with James Bond (Daniel Craig), married him and had a baby with him at the age of 48? I love that for her. I love that she doesn’t present her life as “inspo/goals” and yet… it really is. She got James Bond to settle down and have a baby and he’s never been happier. James Bond is madly in love with her. It’s a great story! Anyway, Rachel covers the latest issue of Harper’s Bazaar UK to promote Black Widow, the release of which has been delayed. The interview took place in lockdown, via Zoom. Rachel was with Daniel and their daughter (whose name we still don’t know) in upstate New York, and the Bazaar journalist apparently caught sight of Mystery Craig and Daniel on the call too. You can read the piece here. Some highlights:
She began filming Black Widow nine months after she gave birth: “I think all women would recognise that as daunting. I didn’t have my core, shall we say. I was really weak and quite flabby. It was a good incentive to do some Pilates and dance cardio…”
Rachel, who is Jewish, on the need to speak to the white supremacists: “It’s about learning to speak to the other. Right now, we have white supremacists in America – what are we going to do, not speak to them? They’re human beings; how did they get to be like this? Do you know what I mean? Otherwise everyone just stays separate. We’ve had Brexit, we’ve had Trump; people have their reasons, even if you don’t agree with them” (as she clearly doesn’t).
The need for more female stories: “The Eighties and Nineties were really sh-t for women. But I used to watch a lot of black and white movies with my mum –Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Katharine Hepburn, they were very powerful in the narratives. Bette Davis didn’t have super-powers but she’s powerful as hell. I do think it’s important for girls growing up to see stories where women are front and centre, and to see a female politician, or a female prime minister. It’s about identification, it’s seeing possibilities. We need more stories about women. We need more role models!”
Giving birth to her second child at the age of 48: “I’m more tired than I was last time, this car has more miles on it. But I’m really having fun, I’m really enjoying it, it’s a real blessing.” Age, she says, has made her more patient. “We tried to go for a walk yesterday, and I had a plan about where we were going to go, but we only made it two metres, because first there was an interesting stick, and then we discovered a moth. So we didn’t go anywhere at all, did we? I’m just more flexible, I think.”
Her big beauty secret/turning 50: “I drink a lot of water. And I always had very oily skin – I hated it as a teenager because I had pimples.”
The thing she says about talking to white supremacists was said in the context of a short film, Lore, she was raving about, which was directed by her Black Widow director Cate Shortland. The film basically makes people see the human side of a Nazi family, and her point was that we can’t just write people off once they’ve done or said something deplorable. Which I understand, but it’s also a slippery slope. Personally, I’m not here for seeing the humanity of these Nazi f–ks, but maybe I simply don’t have Rachel’s maturity.
I thought the story about going for a walk with Mystery Craig and only making it two meters was super-cute. She and Daniel must be loving this time alone with their little girl.
Cover & IG courtesy of Harper’s Bazaar UK.
I’ve tried conversing with Trump supporters and white supremacists. Most of them do not discuss matters in good faith. They will conduct mental gymnastics like you’ve never seen to justify dying on that hill.
I do think we should talk to them, but from another reason. Talk to them and remember exactly what’s been said, and then rebuke that specifically. People tend to generalize too much (neither left nor right is unanimous in all issues), which makes them sound disingenuous at best or just plain dumb at worst. And that sort of debate will not persuade anyone to change their mind.
You cannot talk to people who ignore facts, expertise, and common sense, and rely on faulty, disreputable sources of information. You cannot reason with people who have hypocritical double standards and no understanding of logic or logical fallacies and emotional appeals. You cannot argue with people who move goalposts, create their own conspiracies to explain away truth, and reject everything outside their worldview. And you cannot find humanity in heartless people who care about nobody but themselves, and are incapable of compassion.
I’m done with wasting my time and energy on these lost causes.
You cannot change someone’s beliefs in a single conversation, but you can find one issue you both agree on and go from there. Changes happens in inches, not miles.
@mac You got that right! Totally agree
I’m extremely grateful that I have no deplorable family or friends to try to convert.
I tried talking to them. I tried to understand. I’m done. I am so done.
Yeah, I think if she or some others want to try to this approach, that’s their choice. But not everybody can be changed, and when it comes to something this serious, protecting and supporting those harmed by their behavior has to take priority over not making someone feel rejected over their treatment of a group. She mentions questioning how people get to be like that. Part of the problem is the ways the alt-right gets coddled and made to think what they do is no more than “disagreeing” with people.
I was talking to some Trump supporters who were saying that Mayor Garcetti was a hypocrite because he is opposed to the border wall but has a fence around his house. I tried explaining false equivalence to them but they didn’t get it. Or didn’t want to get it.
They say the same thing about Nancy Pelosi having a wall around her house. You can’t fix stupid.
I adore Rachel. I adore her husband & love that they are happy. She has an ethereal beauty. She the cool chick without trying & you want to be her friend. As for talking to the deplorable state? Her optimism is lovely but you can’t really speak to those who delve into the world of “alternative facts”. Gun toting draft dodgers playing pretend patriots when their country simply asks them to wear a mask. It isn’t worth the effort. I tried & I am now of the belief they are either evil or stupid & wish to remain that way
“Gun toting draft dodgers playing pretend patriots when their country simply asks them to wear a mask.”
and most of them are WEARING MASKS when they do their military cosplay. so they have NO problem wearing it to protect their identity (I guess that’s why they wear them?) but won’t wear one to protect their fellow citizens.
Yelling is talking. Does that count?
I agree with her, you need to talk to them. And it can bring about progress, even if it is slow and painful, there is the example of Hilke Wagner in Dresden https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jan/07/how-to-fight-the-far-right-invite-them-in-the-german-museum-taking-on-hate
I think there needs to be more emphasis in schools on how to construct an argument, what are good sources of information, etc.. Basically how to converse, what are facts, vs. opinions and the value of either. The world has changed so rapidly because of the internet and we are overloaded with information, and many cannot distinguish good sources from bad. It also does not help that most legitimate sources are behind paywalls and a lot of the rightwing and conspiracy BS is free.
Also, as the other side (Brexit, Tory, Trump, etc.) is winning at the moment, I think it is dangerous to shut them out, and not try to engage them in conversation.
True words!
+1
No, Rachel. Bless your heart, and enjoy that 007 dong, but NO! Some of us have had no choice but to try to make a life with these people constantly making it clear that they would take our lives if they could. I’m exhausted trying to prove I’m a worthwhile human because of some extra melanin. This is a bit too “both sides” for my taste. Make bigots afraid again! Make them gather in secret at night and keep their racist garbage amongst themselves!
007 dong, lmao, I’m crying
+1.
What is so « weird » with some Trump supporters /white suprematists is that they only believe in Trump.Honestly Trump could be filmed raping his granddaughter that his supporters would continue to support him .
he talked about how he could shoot a person on 5th Ave and not lose support. it’s true. I’d go further.
he could shoot their mother/wife/daughter etc and they’d say “eh, the b*tch deserved it”.
No and no. I’m tired of White people asking me to prove my humanity to the same racist friends and relatives they never have the guts to challenge at the holiday dinner table or on social media.
Quite frankly, I don’t trust anyone who asks me to do this and I view people like Rachel as a big part of the problem.
You know what Lanie, I think I agree with you. These people are a huge part of the problem. White supremacists? That should be an offense that gets you jailed. All of the hate speech, public gun-toting … it is inexcusable and these vile people should be imprisoned. I will talk to them when they are on the other side of plexiglass.
There should be zero tolerance for racism.
I do agree in educating people to eradicate more of the racism and the illogical arguments. I think humans needs education about ethics and morals. Many people supporting Trump do so because of the economy. That should not be a valid reason to support a human like him.
Unfortunately, the Republicans and Conservatives love to make cuts to education precisely because an educated populace will not tolerate senseless hate as well as an uneducated one who gets their knowledge from ‘ole Uncle Jed’.
I don’t particularly buy that people voted for Trump because of the economy. They did it because he used a bullhorn to promise to make public displays of white supremacy acceptable. He wasn’t just dog whistling.
The economy was a flimsy cover story. Just like with the Tea Party and “taxes.”
Lee Atwater knew his audience.
Amen Lanie. She is feeding into the problem with these kinds of comments.
I agree. I’m white myself, but my first impression of her comments was that it’s a whole lot easier to say “talk to them” when you aren’t the one being targeted, fearing for your safety, and having to, as you said, having to prove your humanity.
Why is the burden on everyone else, especially people of color, to try to make amends and reach out to those people? I never hear anyone on the right saying, “well, I vote Republican, but I’d like to try to understand why my gay cousin didn’t.” It NEVER goes in that direction.
I’m Jewish, like Rachel, but to me, the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. Or a Nazi that Captain America punches in the face. Why should anyone give a Nazi the benefit of the doubt is beyond me. As someone else said, maybe I’m not as evolved as Rachel.
I lost a long-time friend recently after trying to speak to her repeatedly about how much she’s changed from right-wing propaganda over the last several years. She has become a twitter troll and takes any chances she can to insert her political opinion in any discussion we’re having. She has become a very condescending, negative, and aggressive person in her bubble of others who are the same. She’s a deeply unhappy person who struggles with issues in other areas in her offer and I think, like most people who are like this, she’s going a sense of power and self-righteousness in her political sub-group. You don’t have to do much to fit into that group and be welcomed with open arms other than be nasty on the internet. It’s like trying to talk to someone who has become radicalized-it would take months of a professional and cutting them off technology to try to break that down. I think it can happen, but the average person is NOT going to be able to get through to these people.
As a woman of color, it’s not my job to educate racists, bigots, and white supremacists on why racism, bigotry and white supremacy are bad. Not anymore. I actually was on a podcast last week and talked about this. I don’t have these conversations with people who are unwilling to see the blatant error in their thinking, especially after all we have been through. Google is your free, if you want to learn.
It’s a traumatizing conversation to have to have, to have to humanize yourself to someone else, to beg for crumbs of respect, compassion, understanding and equality. No thanks. I’d rather get all that from people who are ready and willing to give that unconditionally.
But whose job is it? Under Trump there will certainly be no public educational measures. Perhaps at some point in the past I would have agreed with you, but with the rise of right wing, racist, misogynistic people, parties and governments across the world, I just no longer think it is enough to be sure of having the right values, views, morals etc.. Being on the right side of history is no use if you are on the losing side, and it feels increasingly like we are.
I do think though that the approach must become more organised and more forceful (lacking a better word) – it shouldn’t be talking to just understand but rather to create a common ground for reality (e.g. what are facts, why are they important) – as the right wing, etc. do view this as a fight, and perhaps we should do.
Sorry it’s not meant to be a personal response only to you, I guess I am just despairing at the futility of all good efforts when I see the news.
@foile.15 The burden lie on white people. It is the job of white people educating each other. White people are the ones who put the systems in place. People of color have been trying for years to dismantle these systems FOR YEARS. FOR CENTURIES. We get the living hell beat out of us when we try. It started with white people and it ends with white people.
And on a smaller level, people of color unlearning internalized racism, oppression and hatred brought on by white supremacy.
@Hotsauceinmybag You are right, it shouldn’t be the burden of people of colour to educate white people on racism.
I guess I am not particularly optimistic that the job is being done by white people well enough, quickly enough or even at at all. Just waiting around in hope that they will learn just – I don’t know if this is the right approach to get where we need to be. But I am also not certain of what the right approach would be.
It has to come from white people. We know it’s there. It’s up to us to really come together behind the message and force it down their throats. I can’t even imagine the frustrations poc endure when trying to politely educate. There needs to be consequences. And when those consequences sparingly occur, we can NOT listen to reverse racism shit. It’s shameful to have racism in your heart, and we need to shame. Across the board. From micro to macro, we have to hear it, understand what’s happening and what’s being said, and hurl it back in stunning ways. Drop businesses, clients, customers. Turn away hate and anger. Ostracize pieces of shit for who they are and what they represent, but be gracious and patient with those willing to listen and consume. The point is, ignoring this as a person of color’s fight is being complicit.
“It’s a traumatizing conversation to have to have, to have to humanize yourself to someone else, to beg for crumbs of respect, compassion, understanding and equality.” It really is, even when you’ve somehow ended up being someone they can see as One Of The Good Ones for a while, and listen to a little bit (either because of whatever your relationship with them happens to be, or because of how close you seem to come to their expectations). Because why should you be so bothered? Why should you beg for them and be so desperate to convince others that those people didn’t deserve it? You’ve earned our respect/support.
Those with alt-right hot takes have already been on the receiving end of sympathy and the benefit of the doubt a lot over the past couple of centuries. What about not expecting all responses to their harm to always be accomodating, or their targets and victims to be perfect?
Thank you, @Otaku, you’ve summed it up well. In a few words, I’m not that bothered. I get no value from talking to white supremacists (and their sympathizers), and I never will.
Yes Hotsauceinmybag! I came here to say the exact same thing. It is white people’s responsibility to dismantle the system of white supremacy. POC are and have been organized. I mean Indigenous folks have been at the forefront of environmental activism since colonizers started destroying their lands but it isn’t until a white girl is at the forefront that people listen. I am done educating white people only for my knowledge to be questioned and challenged at every point. Plus white supremacists do not give a damn what we think! I mean just look at how white “protesters” are treated by cops in comparison to POC protesters. White folks you all have the institutional power, you have to use that to do the work. The system does care what you think, you have to leverage that privilege that you have.
I agree with you wholeheartedly – and I have been trying to do that for decades now and it falls on deaf ears. I’ve tried everything I can think of – polite conversation, discourse, frustration, writing, yelling, crying, sharing powerful stories and movies and books, bringing friends to the table that are different from one another so they can learn from one another, making sure that my sons life is full of diversity at school, home, and in social circles, and even letting people say the most asinine and offensive things to me because I look white, but have dual citizenship from Brasil (my mom was Brasilian) and I let them show their true selves until I calmly let them know that I’m not “one of them” hoping it opens their eyes…and nothing. You have to want to change. They don’t – even my father has married 2 latin american women and is still incredibly racist (they were the “right color” I guess?), and that’s what perhaps scares me the most. I’m out of ideas. I’ll take any suggestions that have actually worked because I feel like a failure in my responsibility to push for change.
These people voted for Trump not despite the cruelty, but BECAUSE of the cruelty. As an article title in the Atlantic posed it – The Cruelty is the Point.
And yes, I agree, having any sort of discussion results in false equivalencies, facts being dismissed or denied, logical fallacies being accepted.
Let’s stop writing off her son Henry.
‘I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.’ James Baldwin said it best.
Often the root of the hate is economics and identity or some other relationship or familial issue. This was the theme in ‘American History X’
I hope what she’s talking about is White Americans talking to other white Americans because minorities are done talking.
This is a nightmare and we only have two choices – continue to divide or try to come back together. I think, anyhow. Hatred leaves no room for reunion on either side. I’m more afraid of what will happen if the rift grows than I am of trying to bridge it, personally.
You try to reach out to white supremacists, and they turn their fire on you.Literally.
Remember Charleston, SC?
I have zero interest in reaching across the aisle to people who would sooner see me dead to live out their little race war fantasies. Why should I put my life on the line when I’ve yet to see people address bigots with the same requests. When do they reach across the aisle?
Not in this lifetime.
It’s not about whether we do the talking or not, it’s the question of WHO does the talking.
You’re straight and see homophobia? Go do that work as an ally for LGBTQ folks, and call out that homophobia with some ‘we need to talk’ educating. The dominant group with all the structural power has the burden to do the educating and dismantling of the system they actively benefit from.
As a racialized woman, I can speak for myself. But when racism happens at work (something I’m struggling with right now), it’s the responsibility and burden of the white allies to step forward and do the ‘educating’ which, to be effective, can never be a pleasant conversation. If it is pleasant, that’s not speaking truth to power. Only when it’s really hard work for you, do you know you’re doing the right allyship. Rachel Weisz is very privileged and likely lives in a bubble, so no wonder she’s really out of touch with her comment, regardless of her intentions.
+1000
Tactical empathy. Paying attention to another human being, asking what they are feeling and making a commitment to understanding their world. ***Note this is not the same as agreeing with them***
To bring about gut level change you need to first foster a bond and connection, which will in turn lead to a breakthrough moment when positive regard is established – at that point you can bring about exerting influence…
Paraphrased from Chris Voss, Never Split the Difference
She’s right in some ways as prisoners who’ve done violent crimes get rehabilitated and released or people with dodgy old SM posts who GENUINELY apologis in my opinion should get second chance. BUT this shouldn’t happen with terrorists or child abusers/traffickers.
How can you honestly have a respectful, intelligent conversation with a gun-toting bigot who shouts you down every time you try to discuss a valid point of view? She lives in the stratosphere; a place inhabited by creative, intelligent, wealthy, privileged and broad-minded people, not down in the trenches where the deliberately stupid, intransigent and aggressive Trump worshipers live. You cannot reason with these people, and they’re the very people who will cause this coming election to devolve into violence, anarchy and chaos. Deplorables will always be deplorables, nothing will change their belief system.
You can’t reason with a group of morons.
For me all of this “coombyahh, lets try to get along” thing ended with Charlottesville. They blamed that young woman for her own death when it was one of them who caused it. That and them walking around yelling old nazi slogans showed me all I needed to know about deplorable trump supporters. They are monsters just like agent orange.
“People have their reasons even if you don’t agree with them.” Trash. How can you use that excuse for something as hateful as racism/white supremacy and when white cops kill unarmed black people, it’s a slippery slope. She’s completely out of touch.