Once again, for the second time this week, I have literally no interest in speaking or writing about JK Rowling and her insistence upon making herself the center of attention within a conversation about trans rights. We were all enjoying a nice Pride Month, and reading about the LGBTQ organizations which were actively working with Black Lives Matter and it was great. And then JK had to make it all about herself, her opinions on a marginalized community, and how SHE is the biggest victim here because she’s being persecuted and abused for having a completely science-based garbage opinion about something she’s read a lot about, according to her.
After everyone reacted poorly to her tweets this past weekend, JK decided to write a long-winded defense of herself, because AGAIN this is all about her and how dare you try to make Pride Month about anyone other than JK Rowling! You can read her sh-t here, but I forced myself to read most of it and honestly, I wouldn’t recommend it. This is where I tapped out:
But accusations of TERFery have been sufficient to intimidate many people, institutions and organisations I once admired, who’re cowering before the tactics of the playground. ‘They’ll call us transphobic!’ ‘They’ll say I hate trans people!’ What next, they’ll say you’ve got fleas? Speaking as a biological woman, a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair (which is doubtless literally possible, according to the kind of people who argue that clownfish prove humans aren’t a dimorphic species).
Oh, such a witty bon mot, making a joke about balls and telling transphobic bigots (like herself) not to worry about the transphobia label, that we all just need to “grow a set” and get on with it. That’s where all of her deep scientific reading has led her: to telling transgender people and their allies to get over themselves and stop taking everything so seriously. And to all of the cisgender people, she’s raising the alarm, because trans people are definitely coming for your gender identities in the night. This is beyond “canceling,” I’m shocked and appalled that she is so hellbent on marginalizing an already misunderstood and marginalized community.
Something nice: Eddie Redmayne released a statement about Rowling and her tweets (this was before her horrific longer statement yesterday). Here’s Redmayne’s statement:
“Respect for transgender people remains a cultural imperative, and over the years I have been trying to constantly educate myself. This is an ongoing process. As someone who has worked with both J.K. Rowling and members of the trans community, I wanted to make it absolutely clear where I stand. I disagree with Jo’s comments. Trans women are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid. I would never want to speak on behalf of the community but I do know that my dear transgender friends and colleagues are tired of this constant questioning of their identities, which all too often results in violence and abuse. They simply want to live their lives peacefully, and it’s time to let them do so.”
Exactly. I’m not an expert on transgender men and women or nonbinary identities, but you know what I do about it? I keep my f–king mouth shut and respect people’s privacy and try to treat people with a baseline of decency, transgender or cisgender. I also find it fascinating that with Eddie and Daniel Radcliffe, JK was called out in a huge way by the two white (cisgendered) male stars of her movie franchises. I respect Eddie and Dan so much for both trying to be proactive allies to the trans community.
Emma Watson tweeted something:
Trans people are who they say they are and deserve to live their lives without being constantly questioned or told they aren’t who they say they are.
— Emma Watson (@EmmaWatson) June 10, 2020
TERF warshttps://t.co/mc58tGXOjs
— J.K. Rowling (@jk_rowling) June 10, 2020
Photos courtesy of WENN, Avalon Red.
I’m fascinated by Emma Watson’s reply. It’s quite muddled for someone who is ordinarily so articulate. I wonder did she give JKR the heads up before tweeting? Emma has always been pro-trans rights (and rightly so) but this must have been difficult given how close she and Jo have remained over the years.
It reminds me of Degeneres’ tweet “for things to change, things must change”. She tried something but it’s really weirdly stated
Yes! Like she’s trying her best not to offend anyone by being slightly vague.
Or ‘we must rebuild and rebuild and rebuild until it is rebuilt’
I think her tweet is quite clear. Quit telling trans people their gender identity is wrong.
This is only 1 of 4 tweets she posted, the 2nd one says things pretty much the same as Dan and Eddie.
Kind of. I’m glad she said something though. One of the things TERFs love to do is present themselves as victims of aggressive mansplaining if men or transgender women criticize their transphobia, and present their transphobia as if it’s backed or needed by all cis women and cis lesbians everywhere.
She does a lot of work with women’s orgs which are struggling to come to terms with the GRA or how safe spaces will be managed
I think her message was mindful of their pathways
Omg. Someone take away her damn Twitter.
I’m still going to read the books and just separate art from artist (face palm).
I went to a rally on city hall before the budget vote (we lost. They increased police budget just to f**k with us) and the leaders lead our group in a Michael Jackson song about children and that made me cringe too, but I guess if they can do it I can figure out how to
I don’t know. I think she kind of killed the books for me. Now I read them and all I can see is the white cis privilege. That her non-white characters are just props. Anyone of any substance is white.
I can’t separate her from the books anymore. She is a terrible person.
I had already preordered her book that is coming out in September. Then she mentioned that the female character in her book is at the age to be interested in what she was spewing. With her saying that, it has tarnished the book series and I just hope that the killer in the book is not trans.
I went straight and cancelled the preorder.
I think her comments on trans people are abhorrent but I have to disagree that POC in her books are props. Yes, it’s a white-centric story with POC in secondary roles but those characters aren’t props.
– Kingsley Shacklebolt is a fair and competent black man who goes on to become a well respected and popular Minister of Magic.
– Harry’s first love interest Cho is East Asian and the text treats Harry like he’s dense for not understanding her trauma. The same applies with Harry and Ron and their poor treatment of South Asian Padma and Parvati at the Yule Ball.
– Dean Thomas, Angelina Johnson and Lee Jordan are popular, competent and brave characters that have solid supporting roles in nearly all the books.
Could more have been done? Sure but the POC weren’t props and the books were first published over 20 years ago. Rowling’s transphobia is trash but let’s not throw every “-icsm” and “-phobic” at her.
I think her non-white characters are props – they feel very “token” to me. 20 years ago isn’t the dark ages – the lack of diversity was frustrating then, too.
Harry is such a good quidditch player because “it’s in his blood.” The whole concept of the wizards are that they are better than regular humans from birth. So much better, that they can wipe a human’s mind and memory whenever they want, and it’s not seen as a bad thing. Because it’s “for their own good” in that same patronizing way whites used to talk about having to “care for” their black slaves. And slurs like muggle and squib are used even by the “good” characters. Despite superficial lip service to “equality” and “our heroes are standing up to tyrants” (they are fighting for their OWN well-being), the entire series is thinly veiled white supremacist propaganda.
Re: Cho — she turned into a simpering, irritating “dumb girl” that got on Harry’s nerves. Not like his REAL girlfriend Ginny, the pure blood who was much cooler, sought after by all the boys, a very powerful spell caster, and could out-play Cho at quidditch. Cho was a prop, to show how much better the pure blood was by comparison. I can’t comment on any of the other non-white characters because they don’t even register.
@Mrs. Krabapple The “in his blood” line was added to the movies by other people. They aren’t in the books. Harry’s father wasn’t a Seeker in the books either. He played another position.
And the casual use of slurs is the whole point in the books. It’s an excellent portrayal of how “good” people actually act and how blind they are to their prejudices. Part of my own frustration is that the books have a pretty good grasp of the kind of patronizing racism and prejudice “enlightened” people demonstrate day to day. And JKR apparently is utterly blind to her own bigotry.
What has happened to her face???
Otherwise, she needs to stop and thank you to those who are speaking up. Stop punching down, it’s cruel.
Why is it necessary to bring her appearance into this?
Uhmmmm because this is a gossip site? Anytime anyone looks like they’ve been tweeked, it is part of the conversation here.
Please note that Ms Rowling found the time to write a whole damn essay about why she hates trans women but could only find the time to retweet OTHER people’s posts about Black Lives Matter.
This is a good point. It’s been disturbing to see how her essay has taken so much oxygen away from the BLM movement in the UK.
What makes it worse, though, is that “Black” and “Trans” are not always separate categories of people. They sometimes they intersect and trans POC have to deal with unthinkable amounts of sh*t, too often from the police. To make these transphobic during Pride month while taking oxygen away from the BLM protests is just plain heinous.
Yes!!!
And wtf is that flea comment even supposed to mean?? Argh I am so angry on so many levels
Right? In her mind, being told that your behavior is harmful to a marginalized group of her choosing- in her case, transgender people- should apparently be taken about as seriously as someone spreading a rumor about you having fleas.
I almost want to ask her who’s paying her to be a distraction lol.
J.K.R is really stooping to Trump levels of stupidness with her tweets.
Anyone who works in Theatre or the Arts understands what a big deal this conversation is so I am super happy to see so many of the artists in her orbit making such clear and concise statements against hers.
Yes she had the same problem: she simply can’t stop making things worst .
Notice Johnny Depp has not said anything about this, and how in HELL can she support him when she herself was in an abusive relationship and writes about it in that essay.?! I don’t really get her arguments either. They don’t make sense. Am I the only one wondering why she is so defensive? What the hell does she think trans women are taking from her?
JK Rowling has been extraordinarily successful, there’s no denying. But she should stick to what she knows – her success doesn’t give her the right to proclaim from her platform about the lived experience of other people who, as Eddy Redmayne says, “simply want to live their lives peacefully”.
Also. she’s wrong.
She actually does have the right to use her website and social media to say what she wants to say whether people like it or not.
True, but then everyone else has the right to respond and to tell her why she’s wrong and explain the harm that she’s doing.
I don’t disagree that she can say what she wants on her platforms. What I meant – and obviously didn’t articulate it well enough is that she has no right to comment on the experiences of trans people when she’s not a trans person.
Also – thinking about this overnight – she makes a big thing about biological gender – yet it’s clear she’s had quite a lot of cosmetic surgery done on the face she was born with. Just saying.
I mean, she can say she was trying to educate herself, but we all know she was educating herself with hateful rhetoric.
Has she tried educating herself on not supporting abusive pricks? Has she tried educating herself on cultural appropriation? Has she tried educating herself on taking a seat? Has she done anything other than double down and play the victim?
I consider this site to be pretty open and socially minded But some of the comments on the last JK thread were absolutely eye opening. There’s a certain absurdity in people decrying the Daily Mail comment section when their own comments are veering into that territory when it comes to trans rights.
Biology has been used as a weapon forever. Whether it was to paint people of color as genetically inferior, or an attempt to keep women under the thumb of men in power – it’s ALWAYS been weaponized by the ruling class. Misogynistic and racial bias have a long history in medical and psychological science. And to deny that makes you part of the problem.
At the end of the day – if you feel like your rights are threatened because someone who was originally raised as a male is asking you to honor their new pronouns and respect their struggles, you need to take a hard look at yourself. You’re no better than the “We can’t let gays marry! It makes MY marriage less validated!” crowd.
+1
Nothing else to add, you said it all.
Very well said, Erinn.
“There’s a certain absurdity in people decrying the Daily Mail comment section when their own comments are veering into that territory when it comes to trans rights. Biology has been used as a weapon forever. Whether it was to paint people of color as genetically inferior, or an attempt to keep women under the thumb of men in power – it’s ALWAYS been weaponized by the ruling class. Misogynistic and racial bias have a long history in medical and psychological science. And to deny that makes you part of the problem.”
All of this. These facts are always easier to swallow when it’s aimed far away, or at the Daily Mail crowd. It’s harder when these issues are closer to home.
I agree. I stopped checking that other thread yesterday because it got too depressing and JK is using her fame to lend support to a hateful position.
Thought exercise (may be useless, but indulge me): If a trans woman enters into & dominates in women’s sports, is it fair for ciswomen athletes to object or isn’t it? Is it hateful for those women to point out the biological advantages a trans woman has that may give her an unfair advantage?
Would you call those women transphobic?
@Xo Yes. White women have always tried to exclude certain women from sports because they don’t fit a certain mold of womanhood, see every white woman who has has an ax to grind about Serena Williams’ “unfair” biological advantages or the unending bs Caster Semenya has been put through. Black women are already legit judged as not female enough to do woman’s sports all the time. This concern trolling about is sports is about how privileged women want to gatekeep sports. Let all the trans women compete.
@XO
Since the definition of “women” in sports has been dabated for years without a final result, genotype, phenotype, or hormone levels, ist would make more sense to develop categories describing physical parameters depending on the type of sport. The kind you already have for weightlifting or boxing. Hormone levels could be one of those.
My wife is a trans-women. Thank you for this! *Slow clap*
just…HOW is saying “adult human females have been oppressed because they are human females” the same as saying black people are genetically inferior? that is an astounding reach
At this point I have nothing but contempt for her.
Me too. I wasn’t a fan of the Harry Potter books but I’ve enjoyed her post-Potter novels. I don’t think I’ll be looking for the next one.
me neither. Well, more time for better writers, but above all, more decent ones.
Transphobia, where it exists, is ugly. Perhaps contempt is ugly too.
wut? i don’t even know what you are trying to say. Nor do I care, to be honest.
Transphobia IS contempt. It is disrespecting the basic human rights of others. And it is ugly.
Having contempt for those who would dehumaize transfolks is not wrong, nor is is inappropriate to say so.
“I’m not an expert on transgender men and women or nonbinary identities, but you know what I do about it? I keep my f–king mouth shut and respect people’s privacy and try to treat people with a baseline of decency”
this right here. this is all that is asked of us. should be pretty freaking easy to do
People with their grievances, man. I am so over it. It really should not be that hard to be decent. Shouldn’t we have better things to do?
I’m reading a book on racism in Germany right now. The author said something simple and true: that while its good to understand the systemic nuances and how racism permeates everything societally and structurally to know what, for example, a microagression is, something is either racist or it’s not. There’s no “a little bit racist”, or “not that racist”, it’s racist or it’s not! It’s that simple, and it bears repeating in this conversation too.
There is no such thing as a little transphobia. JKR Is transphobic.
And the comment section yesterday was pretty transphobic.
I was a reading a book on race last week that said something similar, and also included the point that if a POC tells you something is racist, it is. I feel like this is the same. If a transgender man or woman tells you something is transphobic, then it is. Rowling just needs to shut up.
By that logic, if a woman says that something is misogynistic then it automatically is?
I think so. I certainly don’t need a man to tell me that something is NOT misogynistic, which is what Rowling is doing. And its also certainly possible that two black people, or two trans people, or two women, could disagree on the impact of a statement or something.
If Hilary Clinton – a flawed candidate – claimed that widespread misogyny was the reason she wasn’t elected, would she be right? If she insisted it was the only reason, would she be right?
There is fixed & there is malleable, though. Some attitudes are one & some the other.
This is a WEIRD hill for her to die on. She could literally disappear and not say a word about any social issue ever and she would look better than she does now.
Ummm, it is nice Eddie Redmayne said something, but considering he played a trans woman in 2015 (2015!) and got an Oscar nomination for it. It would be a lot more meaningful if he explicitly acknowledged his past missteps. He’s really skated by on that. Oh and he was bad in that movie too…and he’s bad in Fantastic Beasts….Huh…he’s really not very good come to think of it. 🤔
THIS!
people, EDDIE REDMAYNE WON AN EFFING OSCAR FOR PLAYING A TRANSWOMAN.
Why is he getting a pat on the back?? And this was like, what, 5-ish years ago he won? Before that Jared Leto won Best Actor too for playing a transwoman.
So much performative BS in these celebrities’ words….talk your walk, and then we’ll talk.
I dunno if you guys believe in astrology, but these are certainly the times were karma works wonders and the truth about people and organizations come out! Deep
JK Rowling is now officially on the list: Bye Bye!
And it doesn’t surprise me one bit, she’s showed this type of behavior in the past and got away with it.
Are all super rich, successfull people assh*les deep down?!
Honestly it’s not enough for the actors who owe their careers to her to speak out. They need to donate every tainted cent they made from the Harry Potter movies to trans rights organizations if they want to prove they’re not secret terfs too.
Euh… No. That makes no sense either. Especially since the HP movies are what now? 15 years old? She didn’t sign their pay checks, lots of them were child actors, that money helped them go to college, buy their first flat etc. but the majority of them aren’t millionaires. Will you also ask all the production crew, the makeup and VFX artists and so on to donate all their pay as well because years later, it turns out that the author of the books that inspired the movies is now an a-hole?
That’s not a slippery slope at all.
Should people with harry potter tattoos get them covered to prove they aren’t terfs
When your former employer, Amnesty International, has to denounce your comments, maybe STFU?
I loath her at this point. I’m the mother of an amazing trans man. If she could see how my beautiful, brilliant child suffered before he understood why he couldn’t be happy in his own skin. If she could know the absolute terror I feel for his safety sometimes. Maybe she would stop. But I doubt it. What a horrible woman.
I’ve been done w JK ever since she defended having Depp in her movies but this is beyond bizarre and unacceptable.
I read her essay, and wow. That was something that should be worked out in therapy, not posted for the world to read. It felt like reading a primal howl of fear dressed up in fancy language.
What a slap in the face to choose Pride Month to do this, too.
Keep digging that hole, JK.
I read the entire essay, and she was making some points (is it factual that lesbians are being pressured to accept relationships with trans women who have not fully transitioned? Is that accurate?) but the entire thing was incredibly muddled.
She clearly supports trans rights if you read the whole thing. I guess I don’t get what her larger point is, however.
I agree. I think the problem with JKR is she made questionable likes and follows on Twitter, and then doubled down by supporting that other woman who was banned.
But, there were some very troubling stats in her essay. How a lot of people who transitioned regretted it. How women feel pressured to transition (hence the increase in women transitioning). She might be the wrong messenger given how she started showing her hand, but the research, if true, is troubling and should at least be looked in, or the dialogue engaged publicly without being called a TERF… which is appears a lot of people, especially lesbians, are afraid of.
But the problem is that she doesn’t seem to list ACTUAL stats. She’s saying that anecdotally, a growing number of trans people regretted transitioning. But it doesn’t explain whether they regretted it because of the way they were treated by their families, or because they actually felt pushed to do it. She doesn’t even cite a percentage for that, or anything of substance.
And who’s to say that the rise of friend groups transitioning at the same time is because people who are being bullied for who they are will seek the social support of other people in the same boat. Who’s to say that the increased rate of transitions isn’t due largely to society being more accepting and changes in legislation? It’s the same kind of argument that I see from people who deny that ADHD is a thing – “oh, you didn’t see people getting diagnosed before, clearly that means these people didn’t exist before”.
The other thing is – Lisa Littman’s study has been called out for bias, and methods that don’t meet scientific standards. She posted the survey to sites that regularly show trans critical views and relies on parental observation – who do you think is viewing those sites?
“Littman placed a 90-question survey on three websites — 4thWaveNow, Transgender Trend, and Youth Trans Critical Professionals — and received responses from 256 parents.
Before filling out the survey, the parents had to sign consent forms for participation. And in those forms, Littman describes “social and peer contagion” extensively. This, according to Restar, could have easily biased the respondents to give answers confirming the idea of social contagion. What’s more, those three websites are known for their trans-critical views.”
The American College of Pediatricians cites her study. This is considered an anti-LGBT hate group by Southern Poverty Law Center fyi. They also very conveniently made sure to name themselves something that’s easily mistaken for The American Academy of Pediatrics – a legit group. The former is anti-abortion, against gay people adopting children, and who advocates for conversion therapy. Even wiki has a notice at the top of their article “This article is about a socially conservative advocacy group. For the major professional association of pediatricians, see American Academy of Pediatrics.”
I don’t know, she made some points but some of them were things like the specter of men in the women’s bathroom which… trans women aren’t men anymore. Are there really men – big burly men who identify as men who are storming into bathrooms and changing rooms? Because we went through that nonsense in America with right wingers claiming that that would be a major problem and it just isn’t. So is her data about people regretting transitioning accurate, or does it similarly come through a right wing perspective? It’s stuff like that that makes her whole essay incredibly muddled. Someone upthread said this stuff should be worked out privately and I agree.
Betsy – no, trans women are not burly men.
What she was getting at, at least that’s how I understand it, is that if self-ID becomes the law, predators (men, not trans women) will be able to claim trans woman status to gain access to single sex spaces. Right now women can sound the alarm if they see men present, with self-ID it would be hard to tell the difference between trans women and predator men pretending to be trans women.
That being said, self-ID is a lovely thing in general. Trans people could tell us what gender they are and gain legal recognition without being forced to go through invasive medial treatment if they didn’t want to.
It’s a difficult debate.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no data on this at all. This is all speculation on her part.
@Nanny – I think you misread me.
No, lesbians are not being pressured into relationships with trans people. And people are not being pressured to transition. There are many barriers to transitioning & many steps to ensure people are certain before they transition. Doctors & psychologists who actually work with trans people have protocols in place. JKR clearly hasn’t talked to those professionals. She is carefully trying to stoke fear in reasonable people in order to further her gatekeeping. Any reasonable person knows it would be wrong if people were being pressured, & knows JKR shouldn’t get death threats on social media. But notice that what she’s actually doing is centering herself (white, cis woman) while engaging in bad faith on issues that affect the lives of trans people, especially black trans women, whose face extremely high risks of violence and death because of who they are. Her rhetoric is harmful.
Yes we are. Look up the cotton ceiling. I, a lesbian, have been told multiple times that if I “love women exclusively” that includes trans women both pre and post op. People can disagree with JK but the lies trans activists are telling about their movement are out of control.
she definitely was not making points. she was using TERF propaganda, not research. as a lesbian (and a survivor of multiple sexual assaults), i do not want to be leveraged as a weapon against trans women. they are absolutely women and a deeply important part of our community. trans women–including trans women of color–have been fundamental in the fight for lgbtq+ rights. read more on the stonewall riots, for example, to understand just how crucial trans women and their activism are.
she’s wrong, by the way. lesbians are not “pressured” to be in relationships with trans women. they are our friends, sisters, family, girlfriends, wives, and partners. they are not predatory, as she keeps trying to convey, and in fact are often the targets of oppression and violence. (and thanks lizzie for writing the explanation about transitioning–that’s an important point)
and also, just to add–JKR does not support trans rights. it’s deeply revealing that she would post TERF propaganda at a time when both pride month and the BLM movement are in the forefront. trans women of color have a long and hard-fought legacy of activism. they deserve our respect, acceptance, and support.
It is factual. I’ve seen trans women attack lesbians for not wanting “lady dick” and compare it to strap on sex which is so disgusting and what straight men say to lesbians all the time. As a lesbian i’ll never sleep with anyone who has a dick, I won’t be made to feel bad about that.
I would rather deal with right wing conservative homophobia (what I grew up hearing) than the homophobia from my own “community”.
I’ve had lesbians accuse me of being homophobic for not at least “trying” to be sexual with a woman and have been pressured with the idea that women are better at sex. More than once, by more than one woman. I’ve seen gay men attempt to convert straight men. I’ve seen straight men pressure lesbian women to have sex. I’ve seen straight women straight up grab the junk of gay men. I’ve seen gay men and women turn on bisexual men and women and exclude them from the community.
And you know what I don’t do? Go against the LGBTQ community just because I’ve met a couple pushy lesbians and bi women in my life. I don’t invalidate an entire group of vulnerable people because some were upset that I didn’t find them sexually appealing.
The implications of legal definitions (sex vs. gender) seems to be her primary concern.
Yes, lesbians are being pressured to date trans women. Look up “the cotton ceiling”. Julia Serano published a whole essay on the daily beast about this.
Look, if a trans woman has pressured you to date her, then sorry, I guess? I read the piece you mentioned (quite tough to track down-it’s from 2014 & “the cotton ceiling” doesn’t appear in it). It was a heartfelt essay about being on the dating scene for the first time since transitioning & how being ghosted by cis queer women made this trans woman feel left out of the community. She found cis men more open to dating her. It’s her *lived experience* & her feelings. Nothing in it about pressuring anyone or pursuing women who weren’t interested.
This is a narrative intended to make trans women look like they’re predators trying to go after lesbians, when we *know* trans women are in more danger of being victimized than anyone else. It’s just another gross variation on the idea that trans people are faking being trans to attack cis women & kids in bathrooms. It benefits no one except those who want to divide the community in order to dilute its power. It’s damaging & irresponsible. That JKR has been told this & continues to perpetuate this harm when people have warned her about the danger is so bizarre & indefensible that I have to assume her cruelty is deliberate. To what end, I can’t imagine.
If this is a conversation about believing lived experiences why are the experiences of lesbians who are being pressured to date trans women being shut down? Believe women until they say something inconvenient I guess.
Thank goodness JKR is on the case with her trusty sidekick, Johnny Depp lol
Pawneegoddess- They are being pressured by *some* trans-women, not the whole community. The poster AMM gave a very eloquent response to this upthread.
The only thing I get from this is that I have always liked Daniel and Eddie and yeah, let’s add Emma to the list and their replies to this garbage from Rowling makes me like them a little more.
She sounds like she’s spiraling. Such bizarre comments, and such a terrible thing to dig her heels in about.
I’m sorry that all the HP actors feel they need to get involved in her mess, but as a way to uphold the series and express solidarity with fans, I’m glad they are. They’ve released some lovely statements.
@ Betsy: The idea that lesbians are pressured into sex with penis-having trans women is very much an urban myth. Trans-inklusive feminism (like any feminism that earns that name) is very much about bodily autonomy and informed consent.
Nobody is asking any body to have Sex with somebody they Do not want to, trans women merely demand to be recognized as women.
Anybody is free to refuse to have Sex with anybody for any reason.
Of, course, if the only reason a lesbian gives is the presence of a penis, that can come across as transphobic, just as giving size and weight as the Sole reason reason can come across as sizeist and fat-shaming and giving age as the sole reason can come across as ageist. Nobody is running around forcing girlc*ck on People. But saying “As a lesbian, I won’t ever go with a trans woman because penis” is different from “My genital preference is vagina, I don’t like penis” . The First erases trans lesbians and their cis lesbian lovers, the latter does not.
“Of, course, if the only reason a lesbian gives is the presence of a penis, that can come across as transphobic.” This sentence suggests to me that lesbians are in fact being pressured to have relationships they’re not comfortable with if the threat of being called “transphobic” is dangling before them.
betsy, that’s absolutely not a thing in the lesbian community. we’re allowed to pick and choose our partners, and the idea of being accused of “transphobia” is not some ultimate trump card that overrides consent. trans women are not predators. they are actually horribly likely to be victimized themselves.
sadly, about 47% of trans people–and 53% of Black trans people–will be sexually assaulted in their life, according to National Center for Transgender Equality’s 2015 survey. and also, according to that same survey, around 54% of trans people will be on the receiving end of intimate partner violence during their life.
what JKR is trying to do is get people incensed based on theoreticals and the idea of protecting a marginalized community–one she’s not a part of. she’s completely disregarding that trans women are also marginalized, attacked, and even murdered for who they are. her arguments are drawing on emotions on conceptual things that aren’t real. they aren’t based in fact. the sentiments she stirs up can be easy for people to latch onto, but doing some genuine research and reading can help you understand the facts. i hope they both of my responses in this thread can genuinely help you, especially because i know that many folks do not understand the ins and outs of the lesbian and lgbtq+ communities. fortunately, we live in a time where research and accounts are so much more accessible than ever before–and i’m hopeful that will make a difference. thank you for reading!
Thanks @emkay. Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
@emkay – no, she’s not disregarding that trans people are some of the people most vulnerable to violence.
Look I don’t want to defend her or her essay (as I said above, it’s not well written), but a lot of people are ascribing to her things she hasn’t said and not crediting her for things she has said.
Naming people’s bigotry, be it racism, homophobia, or transphobia, is not a violence, no matter how much racists, homophobes and transphobes would like to argue otherwise.
It’s not an urban myth at all. Go on twitter and you will see plenty of that shit. They will literally compare a real dick to strap on sex and accuse you of transphobia if you, as a LESBIAN, say you will only sleep with biological women.
Twitter is a cesspool and half the people there are cosplaying as someone they are not.
Date who you like. Sleep with who you like. Don’t like transwomen? There are plenty of cis women out there.
And don’t take advice from twitter, FFS!
Twitter might be a cesspool but that doesn’t change the fact that this is something that a lot of people say to lesbians. It’s the new way to be woke, shit on lesbians to support trans women. I have no problem with Trans women but i do have a problem with people pretending these things aren’t happening to lesbians and that we’re making things up.
I find the timing of her claims of physical and sexual abuse alarming, considering the backlash about her continued trans bashing.
I don’t. In the context she provided, I find it informative.
I was sorry to hear that she has been a victim of violent assault and sexual assault. Talk about burying the lede.
Oh please do not do that right now. Please. Women, myself included, whom have been physically and sexually assaulted do not deserve to have our truths questioned. More often than not we have been made to feel we can’t safely speak our truth. I was raped two years ago and still have not discussed it with my very best friends. I break down every time I try. What I experienced has traumatized me, and sometimes it very much provides context to situations where people don’t understand my behaviors or reactions. I would like to add that I am not defending anyone’s hatred towards the trans community, just wanted to say please don’t talk like that about sex abuse survivors. Let’s all be kind to each other please.
Have you been to Trunp’s America recently? Because I guarantee there are more than a few women who feel their issues are being ignored there.
Really, JK Rowling has a way to put her foot in her mouth. Her argument that a “man can put a wig and use the ladies’ restroom” is just silly fear mongering to discriminate against trans people. Frankly, ridiculous, and she deserves what she got.
But as a scientist, I understand one of the points that she wanted to make – the distinction between “sex” and “gender”. Gender is fluid – and it has been for centuries among many cultures in the world. But chromosomically, it does not matter whether you use certain pronouns, or have transitioned: your body has a genetic markup and that can affect many things, from the medical treatment you will receive, to your physical stamina, to your risk at falling ill by certain genetic diseases. I may be a trans man (or woman) – and present myself as such. But if I suffer a heart attack, or suffer from breast cancer (something that can attack females and males indiscriminately) my treatment and prognosis will be greatly influenced by the sex I had at birth. Same for stamina: if you transitioned late in life, hormones will greatly influence your strength and stamina, which can put you at an advantage/disadvantage with competitors that are cis, especially when it comes to professional sports.
Do I have the answers? Of course not. I have never been threatened with rape, assault and violence for my choice of restroom, or because I present as a woman or not. Right now the very small risk of someone abusing trans rights for their benefit does not supercede the enormous need that trans people have of being protected from abuse and discrimination.
You’re not a scientist. What about xxy women?
Sounds like a scientist to me. This was a thoughtful comment. (And the above commenter is also very very right to remind about intersex men, women and people).
Intersex people have been asking trans people since the 80s to stop using them to prop up their arguments.
I apologize. As an intersex person I find Rowling’s “science” to be invalid, but in no way want to detract from trans-experience: perhaps I should not have spoken. But my God, she angered me.
That’s not true at all, pawneegoddess. My own experience has been quite the opposite in classes and discussion groups at Fenway Community Health. Intersex people can speak for themselves, thank you, and they have. Many are activists. At least one has spoken right here in fact, and it is not your place to tell her to shut up. Biology and sex are waaaaayyyy more complex than you are willing to face up to, and that is your failing.
Her argument that a “man can put a wig and use the ladies’ restroom” is just silly fear mongering to discriminate against trans people.
It’s not fear mongering.
If the GRA (Gender Recognition Act) passes in the UK the way trans activists want it,
ANYONE (trans + opportunistic predators, different people) will be able to go to their local administration and just change their sex legally without any further scrutiny.
No obligation to discuss it with someone just to check their intentions or mental state, to undergo any gender or even to live your daily as the gender you identify to.
This is an open door to anyone.
We do not fear or reject trans women who want to live as women, friends, colleagues, family members. Some of them share our views.
We fear the predators who will PRETEND to be trans to use this legislation to abuse women because self-id is just an open door for them too.
Put aside the trans issue (it’s not the core of what frightens women), look at the practicalities and consequences of self-id.
Um…women don’t get issued a special ID card that we have to scan to get into a women’s washroom or locker room or whatever. “Opportunistic predators” can go out and buy a wig and a dress right now to sneak into a women’s spaces if they want. There is nothing stopping them. This idea that there are hords of men just waiting to be able to declare themselves transwomen in order to assault women is absurd. There is no evidence that violence against women goes up when transwomen are allowed in female spaces like washrooms.
Because men who violently prey on women are TOTALLY going to respect female spaces if they can’t spuriously ID themselves as female in order to get in — yeah, suuure. This is the same trans panic b.s. that caused a bunch of U.S. states to pass bills requiring people to use the restroom matching their assigned-at-birth sex. There was no epidemic of sexual assaults / harassment in women’s rooms prior to these bathroom bills being passed. They didn’t prevent cis women from being assaulted, but they sure did make a lot of trans people terrified to leave their homes in case they needed the toilet while they were out. And you know who did get a harassed a lot as a result of these bills? Cis women with short hair and trousers who aren’t super-feminine in their self-presentation. It was a pile of bigoted crap from top to bottom.
As a American cis woman who is in the UK right now, I am not worried IN ANY WAY about men with nefarious intentions self-ID-ing as female to get access to women’s changing rooms or some sh*t. Men who want to harass women don’t need to do anything nearly that convoluted in order to behave like arseholes, and there are lots of more socially accepted ways for them to do it. The remote possibility that some abusive man, somewhere, is theoretically going to try to take advantage, is not a reason to make life worse for lots of trans and non-binary people every day.
It’s becoming a women’s rights issue unfortunately
The harassment that’s been thrown at JK Rowling, is from a hardcore group of trans-activists that are trying to police the words that women can and can’t say…
THAT is what women are having a problem with
All JK said, was that women have periods…
Something that is a biological fact, and wouldn’t have even been seen as offensive a few years ago
Women have been persecuted in the past for their periods… and sadly, it continues in certain parts of the world today… where a woman is deemed ”unclean” and not allowed to leave her house… young girls aren’t allowed to attend school etc.
In order to discuss these issues… to fight for women’s rights and protect women… we have to be able to TALK about it
It should be ok to call someone who menstruates ”female”… that’s not transphobia
How come it’s ok for a transperson to object to being called certain words… and we accommodate them as a society…
but it’s not ok for women to object to being called ”menstraters” or ”people who bleed” instead of women?
Taking away our words is taking away our identity and human rights as born-females
THIS!
I am genuinely confused about how we can gender-appropriate and not culturally-appropriate. If anyone has an article to illustrate the differences, I’d welcome it.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm
Here is a link to an article that looks at the brain activity of trans teens. I’ve never seen research that shows that races differ in brain activity in the same way. Trans people are literally a male brain in a female presenting body or a female brain in a male presenting body.
So you’re saying “boy brains” and “girl brains” exist then? Who is going to hire back that guy from google who was fired and absolutely trashed for saying the same thing?
This article says that people with GD share characteristics with their desired gender. However, GD diagnosis is not obligatory for a trans status as trans is a wider concept (per American Psychiatric Associations).
Pawneegoddess, none of this is news. Your brain can indeed have XY chromosomes even when the rest of your body is XX. In fact, your body can present as female even when your chromosomes are XY. Biological sex is incredibly nuances and complex, way beyond the “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” cliche. Do so e reading– it’s an interesting field of study.
“a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair”
So she’s not just transphobic, she also thinks bravery is a trait one needs balls to possess. Good to know where she stands.
It’s a common figure of speech, though. No need to take it literally.
“Break a leg.”
It’s a common figure of speech that implies courage requires balls. It does not.
Some women are born with ’em :). Seriously, Rowling- INTERSEX MEN, WOMEN and PEOPLE EXIST. In scientific, “lived experience” reality. Also, screw your transphobia.
Again, intersex people have asked people to leave their medical conditions out of this conversation.
For myself, I consider it an identity as well as a biological fact, and my argument with her still stands, though I respect full rights to privacy on personal sovreignty.
Also, my body and biology is not a “medical condition”.
Twitter seems like such a dumpster fire and I’m glad I’m not on it. Obviously no one should be pressured into having sex with anyone they don’t want too for any reason. If you aren’t attracted to someone‘s genitalia that doesn’t mean you are transphobic (if this is actually an issue in the lesbian community, I’ve heard about it but not sure if it’s an alarmist taking point or legit). I have heard of studies about trans people regretting transitioning and saying it was actually a passing phase. Any type of permanent transitioning is obviously A huge deal and comes with risks but as a non trans person that’s really none of by business. If these studies are legitimate we should look at the data and continue to learn about how we can support the trans community. But my god what kind of life is JK leading to bump into these issues all the time?! Just let people live and leave these issues up the trans community and those that study it.
Redmaynes statement was good. Amongst other horrors, her “scientific” position consistently erases the reality of intersex people, which just keeps boggling my mind. Stop invoking science when you do not believe in science (that’s directed at rowling, to be clear).
I really don’t understand why she keeps doubling down on something she clearly does not understand well. Her comments remind me of elementary school me in a way and that’s not a compliment. As a kid, I struggled with the concept that being transgender was a concept for some people. Our family didn’t know anyone who was transgender and it frankly really scared me as an elementary school aged kid. There were no resources available to understand (we didn’t get Internet until I was in middle school) and it wasn’t something my parents really discussed with me. The media treated it as an oddity. But as I got older, I began to understand better.
Sad to see the creator of such a beloved children’s saga out there ruining her reputation. It hasn’t ruined Harry Potter for me forever but it’ll be a different experience with JK Rowling’s problematic views in the back of my head.
I’m glad Daniel Radcliffe spoke out! Always will have a soft spot for him (also you can see him in that weird interactive episode of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt where he plays Kimmy’s fiance lol). And also I forget what Eddie Redmayne said during the promotion of The Danish Girl but I’m hoping playing that character motivated him to educate himself more. I really liked his statement.
This is also the woman that stood behind Johnny Depp…. so, yeah, she doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but herself.
Why cant some famous people just accept their millions and go enjoy them on an island or something and not feel the need pontificate about current affairs……
I’m annoyed that I wasted 10 minutes of my life reading Rowling’s bigoted, self-pitying screed. I wouldn’t have bothered except that someone I follow on Twitter who’s usually pretty decent was all, “well, I don’t agree with her, but she has some good points and doesn’t deserve the haterade.” [NARRATOR: She did not, in fact, have any good points.] So now I have another person to be disappointed in. Ugh. As a cis woman, I’m really tired of transphobes pretending to be protecting the delicate flower of cis womanhood.
I am sad and mad on behalf of all the young trans and NB people who grew up loving the Harry Potter books and movies. Fortunately, I’m so old that I never read more than the first HP book and never saw the movies, so I’m not experiencing the sadness of feeling personally betrayed by an icon. It really upsets me to think about vulnerable young people feeling stabbed in the back by this.
Why can’t she just leave trans people alone? Can you imagine being a billionaire who uses your platform to degrade a group of people who literally have the highest rate of hate crimes and murder committed against them?
“people who menstruate” is a perfectly scientific phrase, thank you very much.
I read that article. Some parts really grossed me out. Also- a person who “looks different” is more in danger in a public bathroom than you are, so stop projecting or whatever that is.
As has been noted, I am intersex, not transgender, but 2 points about my experience are key: 1. Human sex exists on a scale; it is Not binary. 2. No one, under general circumstances, has the right to anyone’s medical history. (Or genitals). (Or to police mode of presentation).
I really feel that should take wind out of everyday trans-hating sails. If one has decency.