I feel like I know a lot about British royalty and all of the dumb rules and operational shenanigans of the various royal courts. But even I get confused when it comes to what happens with the succession, meaning what happens when Charles, currently the Prince of Wales, becomes king. I know that Prince William and Kate will have to go to Wales for the investiture as Prince and Princess of Wales. I know that William will become the Duke of Cornwall then too, meaning he’ll have access to the massively profitable Duchy of Cornwall estate. But I’ve been consistently confused about what happens to Harry, Meghan and little Archie, especially in regards to their titles. A royal expert has clarified some things:
Although Archie is growing up without a royal title, he is still seventh in line to the throne and will move up the line of succession when Prince Charles becomes king. Once his grandfather is the UK monarch, Archie will automatically become a prince and at the age of 18, he can decide whether or not he wants to use HRH.
However, one royal expert has claimed that even if Archie decides against using his royal title, there is still a chance he will be subject to a royal law surrounding marriage.
Speaking to Express.co.uk, Iain MacMarthanne explained: “Prior to the Succession of the Crown Act 2013 all descendants of George II, under the terms of the Royal Marriages Act 1772, unless the issue of a princess who had married into a foreign royal family, had to obtain the sovereign’s permission to marry in order to retain their rights in succession. The 2013 Act sought to bring multiple pieces of outdated and discriminatory legislation relating to the monarchy up to date. Through this Act male primogeniture was abolished, allowing the first born child irrespective of gender to become heir apparent. The disqualification from inheriting the throne by marrying a Catholic was removed; and the Royal Marriages Act of 1772 was repealed, resulting in only the first six in line to the throne being required to obtain the sovereign’s permission.”
It’s expected then that, if Archie does decide to tie the knot one day, he must seek royal consent. However, MacMarthanne explained that there is a possibility he will be freed from this obligation.
“It might be anticipated that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s son, should he marry, will have to seek the sovereign’s permission unless one of his three cousins marry and have children first, as he will be sixth in line when his grandfather is king,” he said.
So Archie is for-sure becoming Prince Archie when Charles becomes king, and there’s nothing Harry and Meghan can do about it. It will be up to Archie to accept or reject the “His Royal Highness” title when he turns 18. And Archie will have to get his grandfather’s permission – or maybe his uncle’s permission – when he marries.
I kind of wonder if this is maybe part of the longer game with those racist douchebags calling for Harry and Meghan to be “stripped” of their titles. Are they actually trying to just throw out Harry, Meghan AND Archie? And how would that even work? It wouldn’t, right?
Photos courtesy of Backgrid, social media.
It would take an Act of Parliament to remove their titles which would mean a public debate … which would mean a public dragging of the BRF (like why is the Queen stealing 300k from the taxpayers for Andrew’s security?) It will never happen and Piers and Wooten don’t want it to happen.
It’s just the new Go back to America. Can’t say that anymore because the Sussexes as a family did leave.
If Harry was just any Duke/Earl/Baron it would take an act of paliament to strip him of his titles. However Harry is an HRH and the Monarch has the prerogative over titles owned by any HRH , she can give or remove them as she pleases without the need for parliaments agreement.
The last draft of that statute was in 1917, when George V striped titles from many HRH family members , mainly because they were fighting with the Germans or lived in Germany, but some, including 3year old Prince Alistair (Queen Victorias great grandson and 9th in line to the throne) lost out because the list of who could be styled HRH was also altered and very much limited in the wording of the new act . The prerogative of the Monarch to strip titles from HRH’s was included in a seperate but related draft.
I don’t think it’ll be “completely up to Archie” I mean it will but Edward and Sophie rejected having their kids be HRH Prince/Princess even though their kids are entitled to being Prince/Princess. If they could do it, then I’m sure the Sussexes can too. Archie is also entitled to the courtesy title of “Earl of Dumbarton” as the heir to the Dukedom of Sussex but again, the Sussexes said they don’t want him styled like that.
The rules could change too.
I think Archie as well as the Wessex kids can decide whether to take in their titles once they’re adults. The parents can only decide to forgo the titles while they’re under 18. But the titles don’t disappear so they can decide to be HRH as adults.
That’s why I said “I mean it will”. Archie can do whatever he pleases when he’s 18+ but until then it’s his parents choice. But I doubt he’ll choose to be a Prince in 17 years time. He might not even use the Sussex dukedom when Harry dies.
@Sofia – The Wessexes ask QEII for permission to style there children as children of a non-royal Earl. QEII gave permission for this. Once the Wessex children turn 18, they will automatically be styled as grandchildren of a monarch. They will be HRHs, just like the York girls. Whether or not Louise and James choose to use the HRH is up to them. Charles cannot change this unless he issues new Letters Patent depriving the Wessexes children of their Style of HRH . I do not see how Charles III can do this without also depriving the York Princesses of their HRH styles.
Please note that “Titles” and “Styles” are two different things. James Wessex has a “Courtesy Title” but does not use the “Style” of HRH.
Archie has a “Courtesy Title” which he does not use by his patents choice but he does not have the “Style” of HRH.
The Wessex children are confusing for people I think. They announced they would be styled as the children of an Earl but the age 18 thing is just because they can legally make their own choice. They have just as much right to HRH now as they will at age 18, it’s just now their parents are making the choice for them (and honestly it seems to be the right one).
There’s nothing stopping them asking Charles and say “no we don’t want him to be styled as a Prince thanks”. Charles will probably grant this permission. As for whether or not the Wessex kids will be automatically styled, that’s still on the Wessexes. Yes they’ll legally be HRH Prince/ss but if they don’t want to use it, the palace can’t exactly force them too can they? And they can also request they’re not titled as such in official announcements.
Camilla is legally “HRH The Princess of Wales” but they don’t use that title for her because of the Diana association and Camilla’s part in that mess. I suspect something similar can and will happen for the Wessex children as well as Archie. They can be legally titled as one thing but not use it.
I am placing a bet that if Charles III ascends the throne, Camilla will be titled, styled and known (referred to) as HRH Camilla, Duchess of Lancaster.
Sophie clarified on the record that both her children are HRHs and a Prince and a Princess but it was decided for them not to be publicly styled as such. When they turn 18 they will both decide whether to maintain this arrangement or be to known as what they legally are. The same could happen with Archie IF King Charles agrees to it.
I think Charles will do what Harry wants him to do. If Harry doesn’t want his children to be given an HRH or prince/princess title, they won’t be.
Title or not I don’t see anyone calling him Prince Archie except those desperate to tie him to the BRF. He’ll grow up just Archie unless he makes it clear he wants to be HRH Prince Archie.
You KNOW the BM/RRs will style him as that, just to cause trouble. Count on it. Then it will be “Horrible Harry and Meghan DENY Prince Archie his entitled birth title!” You just have to know that’ll be coming.
Sidebar – I wish we had new photos of Archie.
He is a little doll! I wish I had some friends who were having babies right now.
That’s what I want to say. That picture makes me smile.
The picture with Harry is so charming! The cute hat, the smile and Harry looking at him with such joy on his face. I love it! I wish we had more pictures as well! Darn it BRF! I blame you for driving them away!
It says he has to “obtain the sovereign’s permission to marry in order to retain their rights in succession”. I highly doubt Archie will be raised thinking he might someday be King.
Right–that phrasing means he needs sovereign permission only if he wants to stay in order of succession. If he doesn’t care about being way down the line, he can marry whoever he wants, no permission required.
Especially because by that point, William will likely be the monarch.
They keep bringing up this archaic rules so they can keep their tentacles on Harry and Archie. Like Archie is ever going to ask for permission to marry. Because, let’s be real, by then, William will be King and will probably extend his douche baggery to Archie just to spite Harry.
The “experts” also like to keep bringing up that technically, the Queen has custody of Archie due to another archaic law.
They are literally treating the Sussex’s like runaway slaves taking every opportunity to impress upon them that The Firm still owns them in some way. Good luck trying to enforce that, because it will be an international incident that will destroy the royal family’s reputation once and for all.
Whoever is leading this media campaign needs to get smacked upside the head because they are destroying every last bit of good will.
Ha! Yes, it’s creepy. Prince Harry is never coming back. His son will not grow up in the royal family. Should anything god forbid happen to his parents, he will be raised by Doria and/or one of Meghan’s close friends. Like, don’t they realize this?
I don’t think Harry cares anymore if Archie is viewed as “royal”. And the longer Prince Harry stays and works in America, the more he will see he doesn’t need the Firm–and actually the Firm is more of a liability than anything else.
Long live the BRF.
@Snuffles, the Queen doesn’t have custody of Archie. The law “The Grand Opinion of 1818”
stipulates that ‘the monarch as legal custody of their minor grandchildren’ there is nothing in the statute about great grandchildren. However Archie will still be a minor when/if Charles becomes King, then the ‘1818’ would kick in for Charles guardianship of Archie. Technically the Queen is still the legal guardian of the Wessex children as they are both still minors.
Archie will probably fall to 7th, at least, by the time he decides to marry.
Maybe not. If William is king then his Cambridge cousins will have to have had at least two kids to push him back down to 7. Hopefully George or Charlotte will have started families by then.
Ha! The British media tried every tactic to scare Harry and (especially) Meghan into given them access or they’d make their lives hell within the BRF, because they were so sure Meghan desired the royal life. And then when that tactic backfired spectacularly with H&M leaving, the BM/RR are now desperately trying everything to keep them (especially Meghan) connected to the BRF!!!
You are so right. They are going for every angle–legal, regal, nonsensical and nobody’s business–in order to keep this couple tied in to the BRF and accountable to them, the tabloid proletariat.
We will only ever see this child once a year on his birthday so why are these experts even talking about this? And if he gets a sibling, probably even less.
Did anyone see that large protest outside of Buckingham Palace against the monarch and Prince Andrew? Tick tock. Tick tock. Didn’t Princess Diana say that Charles would never be king…?
IF Prince Charles does rise to the throne, I’m sure Prince Harry and Meghan will just shrug at Archie’s title. And if his granddad tries to make a big stink about it, can’t Prince Harry just pull kid Archie out of the line of succession?
Well to be fair that was a QAnon protest connected to the save our children hashtag. I don’t think its necessarily a groundswell of anti-monarchy protesting.
Which side bar – you want a crazy time go down those hashtag rabbit holes. Children are being sent around the world to buyers in dressers shipped from Wayfair. As coordinated by Chrissy Tiegen. It is BANANAS.
And legit child/human trafficking orgs are like omg stop you’re not helping.
That was an interesting part of FF – that Charles said he would considering issuing new letters patent when he became king so Archie would NOT be a prince. (Wonder if Will and Kate would fight that because it would presumably affect Louis’s children as well?)
My take on it always was If they EVER intended for Archie to be called HRH Prince Archie, the queen would have issued new LPs like she did before the birth of George. He’ll be entitled to it once Charles becomes king so it would have made sense, if they wanted it, to start like that.
I think Harry acknowledges his privilege and realizes being a prince of England has given him an enormous platform, but also realizes the burden and doesn’t want that for Archie.
I can see William and Kate fighting it because Letters Patent aren’t a person specific. They are applied to everyone. If they change it to just “direct heirs and their kids only are Prince/Princess. Monarch’s non heir kids’ kids’ aren’t having a Prince/Princess title anymore” then yeah it’ll affect Louis’ kids.
*would consider – sorry on my phone lol
The old one would have made William’s first son HRH regardless of if the son was the first child or not. The queen added all of William’s kids to the letter patent so I doubt they want to go back on that. Plus they added William’s family to the birthday bells nonsense. William wants the pomp and circumstance for his kids even if it’s not good for them in the long run.
I can hear Meghan, Harry and Archie laughing. “Bestowed,” not earned.
Archie will only have to get permission if he wants to remain in the line of succession. Who says that he would want that?
I have this defiant thought of Archie, when he comes of legal age, not only renouncing his place in the succession but also British citizenship. The British rags will lose their minds! We’ll see the likes of Wootton and Morgan stroke out in real time on whatever social media platform is popular at the time.
I do not think that Archie will renounce his British citizenship. Why would he? Britain represents a wide range of people so even if he loathes every royal by that point, it doesn’t make sense.
Like I said, it was a defiant thought and not an actual prediction.
William becomes Duke of Cornwall (and Cambridge) immediately upon the Queens death, but when he becomes Prince of Wales is up to Charles, as Monarch. It’s not automatic.
IIRC, the “investiture” ceremony that Prince Charles did, featured in The Crown this season, is not anything traditional or official; the Royals came up with it for him as a PR event, for lack of a better term. Lol whether William would do it, he’s that lazy not to.
The monarch gets to decide when to make the heir Prince of Wales.
Prince Edward (later Duke of Windsor) was invested in a ceremony at Caernarfon Castle in July 1911, a year after his father became king. Spectacle was designed by Lloyd George. You can see it on YT in British Pathé videos.
Letters Patent were not issued to make Charles POW until 1958, six years after his mother became QEII. The investiture PR event didn’t happen until 1969.
One of the main reasons Harry left the family was so that Archie wouldn’t grow up like he did, so all this speculation is irrelevant and nonsensical. I think at the end of the one year review, Harry and Meghan will announce that they won’t be using the Duke and Duchess of Sussex titles. Archie will be brought up as a regular American boy and won’t become a Prince under Charles or William’s reign. By the time he gets married, the monarchy will probably be gone anyway but the British press is so desperate for Harry and Meghan to remain tied to the Royal Family.
Interesting about Harry and Meghan not using the Sussex titles either. I could very easily see that. So does Harry become Harry Mountbatten Windsor? He used Wales in the military and at school, so would he want to go back to that? What an odd life to go from no last name, to one you kind of gave yourself, to a different non last name, to picking one from a family you broke up with because they were jerks.
I’d suggest all three go to Markle just to watch heads explode, but they wouldn’t want to give Thomas the attention.
They might give up the Sussex titles, but he will still be Prince Harry and she will be Princess Henry
He wouldn’t go back to Wales, because it wouldn’t be his father’s name anymore. He and William were ‘Wales’ because they were the sons of the Prince of Wales. When Harry became Duke of Sussex, he lost the surname ‘Wales’.
Once Charles is king, it wouldn’t make sense to give Harry the surname of his older brother William. William will have Wales, Cornwall, and Cambridge to choose from but kids will likely go by ‘Wales’ at some point as that would be their father’s highest title.
can’t help but smile whenever i see this photo☺
Same. those meaty lil chunky legs.
How backwards are these people that they need to discuss whether or not a toddler requires permission to get married from a grandfather but most likely an uncle, decades from now? This shows how stupid the entire system is.
I also echo those who have said that they’re unlikely to be worried about keeping in the line of succession, so I don’t think this rule about asking permission is going to have too much time wasted on it.
I’m ready for some new pictures of *Prince* Archie!! I hope Meghan posts something soonish. He’s such a little chunk. xx
I agree, TeamMeg! Basically came to comment that he is just so cute, and that one picture of him and Harry in their beanies gets me every time… we need more Archie!! Adorable little guy.
Archie will probably fall into 7th place soon when Kate has the inevitable 4th baby. But she’ll have to catch Willie first to get the deed done.
He may be seventh now but I have no issue with him being pushed back by George’s kids etc. The further he is from the throne, the better. WK kids and grandkids can have all the spotlight they want. And if one of the WK kids marry a POC or is gay or their spouse takes the spotlight away from their parents, good luck to them!
Also #AbolishTheMonarchy. Give the money back to the PEOPLE.
lol clarence house is so desperate to keep their links to the sussexs😂the not so subtle camilla PR stunt making her out as a caring step mother was so obvious. H&M already stared they dont want title for Archie and I doubt he’d want one after he reads up on how they treated his mum & were silent when he was called a chimp! The idiot courtiers think they still have a chance of bringing harry back to their fold when in reality their latest house purchase is an indication that they wont return. Archie will have more freedom & prosperity than the cambridge/wessex kids. I mean I could see him becoming a big musical artist/influencer when he’s bigger just like zahara Jolie who’s now designing jewellery collections benefitting charities