A few years after Prince George was born, Prince Charles and his team began planting stories in some of the friendly British papers. Those stories had common themes: Charles is disturbed by William’s devotion to the Middleton clan, especially Carole Middleton; Charles feels like Carole hyper-dominates William & Kate and their time; Charles doesn’t feel like he gets enough time with his grandchildren, especially “future king” George. Charles had a grudge, and in those years, we often debated whether the grudge was warranted, or whether it was just desserts, just like we often debated Carole’s apparent running of the Cambridge household for years. When You Know Who came around, suddenly – and I do mean suddenly – William and Kate were very eager to spend more time with Charles and to give him more access to their kids. So… there’s a new royal documentary and there’s apparently a lot of conversation about the role the Middletons play in the Cambridge kids’ lives, as compared to Charles’ role.
Kate Middleton’s family will have a ‘bigger influence’ on the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s children than the royal family, experts have claimed. Royal commentators Jennie Bond and Tom Quinn predicted it will be Kate Middleton’s parents, Carole and Michael, who will spend the most time with Prince George, seven, Princess Charlotte, five and Prince Louis, two. Speaking in a new documentary, Quinn said it would be ‘entirely wrong’ to think the royal family will have the biggest impact on the children’s upbringing, because the Firm is ‘too formal and stuck in its ways’.
Meanwhile Bond spoke of ‘tension’ within the family, claiming Kate, 39, will always turn to her 65-year-old mother Carole for ‘help, advice and guidance’ over the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall. In Channel 5’s When the Middletons Met the Monarchy, airing on Saturday, Quinn said: ‘I suspect everyone thinks that in terms of the children, the royal family will inevitable have the most influence, but that is entirely wrong. It will be the Middletons that have the influence, because the royal family is too formal, it’s too stuck in its ways.’
Bond added: ‘I suppose there is a little tension at times between who gets to see the grandkids the most. Kate will always turn to Carole for help, advice guidance, and just get together and romping around with the kids – possibly before she would get together with Camilla and Charles.’
Quinn went on to reveal how Charles, 72, was ‘shocked and saddened’ after discovering the couple had chosen to locate their country home in Norfolk, leaving him ‘out in the cold,’ and more than 200 miles from his home of Highgrove in Gloucester.
Richard Kay also expressed how important Carole and Michael are to William, claiming that he’s always made clear that Kate’s parents will be part of their lives. ‘Prince William has said, “Look I am not always going to be available for the royal family, I have another family and that is Mike and Carole Middleton and that is very important to me and Kate and my children”.’
Vanity Fair’s Katie Nicholl agreed, adding: ‘William made it clear the Middleton’s couldn’t be cast aside.’ Kate met William while attending the University of St Andrews, and Nicholl claimed it was Carole who encouraged her daughter to enjoy the thriving party scene when the pair briefly split in 2007. ‘It was Carole that said to Kate, you go and show him what he’s missing, said Nicholl. ‘Carole knew her daughter was perfect future Queen material’.
So the documentary is about the Middletons and the Windsors and the push-pull of those two families which will – apparently – determine the future of the monarchy. I mean, I think Kate relies on her mother on all things, from child-rearing to royal busy-work to running Anmer Hall and everything in between. There is no doubt in my mind that Carole inserts herself into all parts of Kate’s life, and that Kate wants and needs her mom to do just that. What has always struck me is that Carole really didn’t prepare Kate for any of it though. Both Kate and Carole were so tunnel-visioned with “catching the prince,” it then turned out that Kate was ill-suited for royal life. She couldn’t even run a small country home without getting her mom to organize everything, decorate, make cheese toast for William and basically keep the Cambridge marriage intact. I mean… I kind of see why Charles leaked all of that negative sh-t, honestly.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, WENN, Backgrid.
I mean… of course her natural inclination is to spend more time with her own mother than her in-laws. I would presume that’s most people’s inclination, unless they’re estranged from their families
True, but it’s probably a foreign concept in the royal household where they always dominate. Especially when it comes to the upbringing of the heir.
Especially when it’s not even your husband’s mother-it’s his father and step mother who he doesn’t exactly adore. I’ll complain about Kate’s work ethic all day long-but I’m not criticizing her for this ever.
MaryContrary – I agree. Kate is the lazy princess, but a daughter with a close knit with her mother and family is nothing to critize. It is a beautiful bond and it’s a good thing that she managed not to have her family pushed aside. The Royals can try but they will never be able to break this bond – or she will shave half her head I’m telling you.
Yes, and whatever their fauls, the Middletons are by all accounts a close, loving family. I would rather the Cambridges expose their children to a real family than a business arrangement masquerading as a family like the Windsors.
A co-dependent, social climbing, racist, attack anyone who gets in their way family living off the shady uncle’s money. It isn’t like the Middletons are any great shakes.
I don’t think the family is “average” when the eldest daughter’s goal is to marry a Prince and the mother helping her along and enabling her. Not encouraging Kate or Pippa to work for a living and support themselves just find wealthy husbands to support them, And Kate left that other University in a rush to get to St. Andrew’s when she found out Will would attend.
But will and Kate marriage is a business arrangement. She gets palaces and Crown Jewels in exchange for providing heirs and looking the other way when he cheats
Her family gets to enjoy all the perks of being related through marriage and grandchildren and in-laws to the royals , so this is definitely not a relationship based on love .
“ A co-dependent, social climbing, racist, attack anyone who gets in their way family living off the shady uncle’s money.” But at least they don’t do all the bad sh*t to each other like the Windsors do. Once you’re a Middleton, by birth or marriage (even if you’re horrible uncle Gary), you’re in and part of a tight knit group that supports each other. You don’t see Carole leaking against Kate, or Kate trying to exile her sister to a different continent, or any of them banding together to shun James’s fiancé. So while the Middletons aren’t really great role models for how to act or behave towards those outside the family, the Windsor’s aren’t great role models for how to act or behave towards those outside the family AND towards those inside the family.
Well I guess the Middletons mafia family type family loyalty is a positive.
I agree with you, MissMarieRose. So many people here make it seem Kate is overdependent on her mother, but our family is super close, spend tons of time together, but my daughters aren’t overdependent on me. I see no shade in Kate and William preferring a warm, loving family over the supremely dysfunctional Windsors!
I think from the outside they look like a ‘warm and loving family’, but that’s only because they are compared to the cold, ruthless Windsor’s. I think if they were so warm and loving, Ma wouldn’t feel the need to spend her life chasing after this dream of being royal. The family seems obsessed with climbing the ladder, so their can’t be so happy and content with where their lives were at cos if they were they would just want to live in peace and enjoy what small fortune they had.
Ma push Kate everytime she thought about bailing. She sacrificed her own children’s happiness for money, power and fame. That doesn’t sound like a loving mother. I think collectively the middletons do band together, but within the family I’m sure there are tensions there. I mean James is basically the rob Kardashian of the lot. Pippa probably was the “Kim’ of the family and ma’s trophy daughter, but Kate got pushed towards William due to being in the same school year. Also Kate and Pippa were brought up being competitive. And poor mike, he’s probably thinks wtf.
I don’t Feb. Are they still climbing the ladder? Seems to me, they’ve arrived where they wanted to be. They’re english, so unlike Meghan, they grew up in that upper crust snide and snobbishness of the Upper Class/aristocracy. Even if the dream was to marry wealthy, they still needed to socially climb to get in the room. Kate had to appear on paper and in society to be fit enough for a prince, so that meant eveyone in the family had to appear to be “worthy” of marrying into the royal family bc it’s a role and an exclusive club. Kate was Carol’s prized horse jockeying for the role of future queen. That means something in English culture. Look at all their books. This is always the plan if they’re not of the noble class, and they are always ridiculed as outsiders bc they desperately want to belong. I thing William treats them and makes sure to make them feel as if they do. Now they can kinda chill and enjoy the ride, to be honest. They’ve made it. So long as Keen remains married.
@chica I wouldn’t say they were still “climbing”, but are clinging onto the ladder desperately trying not to fall off. I think Ma expected everything in life to be smooth sailing once Kate married in but it hasn’t turned out that way. The middletons and Kate are struggling to keep their heads above water. They too are owed by the press and ma probably spends more time working on Kate’s PR than anything else. They saw Meghan as a threat (remember when she was told to stay away from Pippa’s wedding), and have played their part in sussexit, because they are so insecure about Kate’s position. They genuinely thought kate would be the new Diana by default. But she never instilled any work ethic into her. Their business is sinking, Pippa didn’t get to marry an aristo, and the press knows too much about them. Ma is the one constantly pushing the ‘future queen’ narrative in those sugary puff pieces. But their whole existence seems to depend on Kate’s position and her marriage, a marriage that is on the rocks. All William has to do is call it quits, and the middletons are over, and he’s already halfway out the door. If they were such a happy family, why not just give this game up and live a quiet life?
A woman who chooses her future son-in-law over her daughter is a positive now? The only reason these two married is because Carole inserted herself into their relationship, and has stayed there for twenty years. This is in no way a healthy dynamic, as others have written on here.
They are definitely still climbing, that’s why Tattler keeps egging them on. Early talk was the Middletons would get titles when Kate married in. It was floated by Carole’s PR hacks at the Fail, and they were laughed out of the room. That is still what the Midds crave – being elevated to the aristocracy. Pips and her future (purchased) title is no where near what the Midds want.
While the Middletons are not as distant as the Windsors, let’s not forget that they don’t exactly have a normal family dynamic either. Kate and Pippa were pushed hard to marry well, a la Mrs. Bennett, and they never did anything productive with their lives while working on getting a ring. And James basically flits from one silly business to another without any aim in life. James has been public about mental health issues and Kate can’t handle the few adult responsibilities she has as a royal spouse.
And Carole is still working at getting access and does interviews bashing her daughter’s sister in law. There is dysfunction on both sides of this family tree.
This. The Middletons are nothing to admire, not from what I’ve seen of them in the last twenty years.
I was about to say the exact same thing. I really like my MIL but I generally go to my own mom first for advice, etc. I think that’s generally the way most couples operate barring family estrangement, death, etc.
It’s not just a matter of being closer to her mom than her step mother-in-law though. I am certainly much closer to my mom and I am going to reach out to her for help before my MIL any day of the week.
But the Middleton involvement in the Cambridges life is extreme, and that’s apparently always how Carole has been with Kate. My SIL’s mother is like that and quite frankly its not healthy and it does affect my parents’ relationship with their grandkids from my brother/SIL because my SIL’s mother is ALWAYS around. she’s ALWAYS there. And frankly it sounds like Charles cant have a relationship with the Cambridges without the Middletons being in some way involved, and again – thats not healthy .
Does Charles actually care though? At least when it comes to Louis and Charlotte?
Charles had access to Archie and from what it looks like, a closer relationship to Harry and Meghan. He messed that up by his casual disregard for their welfare.
I think Charles cares if he cant have access but the Middletons have free access, especially considering he is supporting the Cambridges.
Yeah pre pandemic we spent more time with my parents than my husband’s father. My husband isn’t overly close to his father. His mother died in 2011. His parents divorced in the early 80s. Even now during the pandemic my nearly 2 year old still “sees” via video chat my parents more. Bc I am more inclined to do video chats and I am more likely to call my own parents.
I see Clarence House is revving up the royal bus to run over The Middleton’s. It was only a matter of time now that the Sussex’s have removed themselves from the equation.
Now, I wonder just HOW MUCH do the Middleton’s know about the royal family’s dirty little secrets. I guess there could be one positive for being “Waity Kaity” for 10 years. Kate probably saw and heard a LOT of shit and told mummy about it all.
Makes you wonder why only Kate has been able to keep her name on her kids birth certificates while none of the other royal wives were afforded the same.
I doubt there’s any reason Kate’s name is on there, other than William never bothered to fill out the forms property and the Palace didn’t care. We’ll see if new certificates are issued afer this.
Given the power the UK monarchy has over the press? If the Middletons do not go quietly when William decides to divorce Kate, the gates will be opened. Everything from Gary’s shady money, the shady PP money held off-shore, the multiple out-of-country mortgages on Middleton properties, all of it.
All William has to do is claim he was seduce and manipulated by the conniving Middletons while he was fragile from his mother’s death. The Palace will make sure the monarchists eat it up and all end up hating the Middletons.
And again I reiterate nota, the Middletons will have just as much info to go to the press with. By the time the Middleton’s are done whispering stories in the right ears, it will become a game that will destroy any goodwill the BRF has left. The only hope either family has is an agreement to not trash either family for the three kid’s sake.
The Midds have no where near as much, nor do they have the deep ties to the press as the royals do. All they have is William’s role in Sussexit, which he could blame on his manipulative wife and MIL.
If the royals want the Midds out, the Midds are out with all the Midds dirty laundry aired. If they do quietly, it doesn’t happen. If they put up a fuss, the Windsors will convince everyone that the kids are better never seeing Carole and Mike again.
I dont think Kate knows as much dirt about the royals as people think, despite what she pretended during the Waity years. I think she was kept at arms length from the royal family – remember Harry making the comment when they got engaged about “looking forward to getting to know her” or something? Weird comment about someone your brother’s been dating or at least friendly with for almost a decade. She may have seen/picked up on a lot during her marriage, but the Windsors still hold the cards and if she wants significant perks in a divorce, she know she’ll have to fold some of hers.
Right. Didn’t we all have this discussion when George’s birth certificate came out? There was a minor scuffle among the press and the commentariat bc Kate isn’t a princess of the UK like it said.
The Middletons have a lot to hide too, especially when it comes to how they earn their money and Uncle Gary’s role in it. And in the end the establishment will protect the Windsors. There has always been the percolating narrative of the Middletons being crass and parvenu and it wouldn’t take much to push that forward.
Agree. Uncle Coke Garry definitely invested heavily in the upkeep of his sister and her family. Plus I no longer feel any sympathy for Charles, he should have done right by Harry and Meghan and their son because I believe they were being honest and true in their affection for him, but no he had to join the rest in trying to destroy them so that Willy won’t throw himself on the floor and have a temper tantrum like the f—-ing two year old he is.
I remember reading years ago about how Charles didn’t like it when Camilla’s grandkids came to Clarence House because it’s basically a museum and Charles likes everything to be perfect all the time. Doesn’t sound like very much fun for little kids.
Also, Charles has an intense schedule. Does he make time for his grandkids, or does he expect them to be available on his terms?
Contrast that with Carole who probably child-proofed her house so the kids can bang around and is essentially on call for W+K.
Charles seems more interested in George and those “dynasty’ Photos.
I dunno, I feel like this is coming from Will + Kate – they saw how well “man standing by his wife and children against the Royal Family” played for Harry and this is just more copycat comms
I think William included the Middletons way before Meghan ever came on the scene.
Tessa, when you said” those Dynasty photos” I imagined the BRF cosplaying the 80s tv show LOL
I bet the Middleton’s have a ton of information about William, specifically, and maybe about his relationships with his family members, but I doubt they have as much info on the other members of the BRF. So I can see Charles or BP being fine with throwing the Midd’s under the bus because any tea the Midd’s have is likely going to make William look bad and Charles and petty Betty don’t seem to be thrilled with William right now. Two birds one stone?
I think the royal family is secretly embarrassed by having these commoners as in-laws. Despite the fact that the Middletons — although social-climbing and manipulative — have managed to make a success from humble beginnings. But the royal family, for all the airs they give themselves, have accomplished nothing.
I don’t think they actually all feel like they have accomplish nothing, though. Charles doesn’t. He has seen the fruit of his labor. William on the other-hand, not so much.
The Windsors don’t have a problem with Sophie’s commoner father. What they have problems with are how openly tacky and grasping the Middletons are.
I’m not a Middleton fan by any stretch. They raised a lazy child and enabled her way into a role for which she was poorly suited and have further enabled her to be shite at it.
That being said, you can’t matter to your children and certainly not to your grandchildren when you opt out of their raising and emotional well being and in fact contribute actively to their worst impulses through your careless parenting. And that’s not even touching Charles’s documented focus on himself and later, his projects over being any sort of involved father before Diana’s death or afterwards.
There wouldn’t be a hole for the Middleton to fill had not Charles left a gaping one made even larger after Diana’s death.
Exactly. Charles was a shit father and never there for his kids except for photo ops (just like his parents were). So it’s not shocking that William would lean towards Carole. She’s a manipulative beast but at least she was hands on in raising her children.
Sniffles, utter rubbish. Charles was as good a father as he could be in the circs. Diana admitted he took a great interest in them as babies and cut back on his royal duties. After the separation, Diana often made it very difficult for Charles to see the boys – taking them away on days Charles was meant to have seen them. Without telling Charles she took William on his first royal engagement to Wales which was terrible.
However, by the time of her death the boys were into all the activities on the big royal estates and preferred this to Diana’s tennis and theme parks.
I suspect that had Diana lived someone like Carole Middleton would have had no shot at playing pseudo mother. But I agree, William didn’t really have any strong parental figure, especially when Diana wasn’t there anymore. He was an easy target emotionally.
You’re conveniently forgetting the stories Charles kept leaking to the press about how W&K were keeping him from the grandkids, how Carole was keeping him from the grandkids. We got those stories for years. W&K were hiding out, refusing to do any royal work, and refusing to accomodate their lazy schedules to Charles’s busy one.
They even switched George’s first birthday party date last minute, away from his real birth date. The only royal who wasn’t already scheduled to work that day was Philip, so he went to the birthday party. That’s just petty and abusive on W&K’s part, deliberately re-scheduling the party last minute so Charles couldn’t attend. An no, he couldn’t just cancel royal engagements pre-scheduled for a year with one day’s notice.
It is notable we got plenty of photos of Carole with her prize (number one grandson destined for the throne), but never any pap pics of her with Pippa’s son. Carole’s agenda is to be the next Queen Mum, controlling the eventual heir (George) behind the scenes.
I’m conveniently not forgetting a damned thing.
W&K are work shy as shit. But that doesn’t mean Charles gets to dictate a relationship with his children and grandchildren when it’s convenient for him despite the carelessness with which he raised him.
I blame W&K for a ton but I’m not going to critique the boundaries a couple put in place to manage a relationship with an absentee parent.
Bingo! Carole has done plenty to ensure she’s front and center in George’s life. Not so surprising we haven’t seen much of her with the other kids or Arthur. So, is this a Middleton embiggening story or another leak from Charles about Carole’s power over the Cambridges?
Charles isn’t dictating anything. What happened for years was W&K deliberately not making time for Charles to be with his grandkids. Charles actually works while W&K do next to nothing. There was plenty of ability, in between sunny holidays, skiing holidays, shopping excursions, and work avoidance to schedule time for Charles to have with the grandkids. The sh!t move around PGTips first birthday was an example of how W&K behaved for years.
Charles seems to pay more attention to George. He released two pictures with his two grandsons but no one on one photos with Charlotte. I find that odd.
Is anyone asking for photos of Carole with Pippa’s son? Pippa is the one person more boring than Kate.
Pippa is out getting papped without a masks, she’s so desperate for press attention. If Carole had been out with Pip’s kids, they’d have been papped. Carole has always put far more effort into the ‘royal grandkids’ and ‘royal daughter’ than the others.
You are deliberately missing my point.
Charles set the dynamic when he chose to raise, or rather not raise his boys the way he did.
It’s a real life example of the cat’s in the cradle song.
You can’t spend years with a casual relationship with your own children and then expect your children to prioritize time with you when they have children of their own.
And what do you think time with grandpa Charles actually looks like? Do you think it’s a nurturing, good natured environment or will it be a stiff, protocol laden affair where grandpa will probably say things that feel like little digs?
Charles didn’t have a distant relationship with his kids for years, in spite of Diana’s best efforts to cut Charles off at the knees in the parenting department. That is a whole lot of Diana PR. When it came to using the kids publicly for PR during the separation years, her PR games far outweighed his as well. He had a hands on, playing, time in the garden, going surfing, playing polo, skiing, etc. relationship with them. Harry didn’t pick up conservation and art from others, they came as mutual interests with his father.
He definitely fell down in the teen years, enabling William too much leeway and giving William too much leeway over Harry. Overall, Charles and Harry were close for many years, much closer than Charles and William. Their mutual affection is clear in the interview Harry did with his father a year or two ago.
William has always been a petulant bully, and Charles has no idea how to deal with him in return. William’s fear of his own inadequacies is what has driven his anti-Charles, anti-Windsor attitude for years. Not failings on Charles’s part, but becuase the Midds give William a pass to remain a petulant adolescent while Charles represents the adult world and royal duty.
I bet Carole is all around not only George but also Charlotte. I am sure she would love to be the grandmother of UK King and the grandmother of some european country Queen. If Kate leans on her at every way, Carole will teach Charlotte the only thing she knows the best – to find a meat ticket ans set it.
@nota
I wonder if William has inherited Phillip’s bullying nature, but not his sense of duty? It would make sense why Charles does not know how to deal with him.
@nota agree re: Charles as a parent. I dislike him intensely, but Charles was there for William’s birth, a first for a royal, and according to Diana he loved changing nappies and feeding babies. The boys were actually with him for at least a month when Diana died. He was far from distant at that point. Later is another matter.
By the time George takes the Throne carol will be gone. Carol might be on her way out, if not gone by the time William ascends if Charles, a relatively healthy man, doesn’t live past 100. Until then, the Middletons won’t really have that much face time on the royal scene in the way the Queen Mum had bc she’s not royal and Charles, as King will dictate how Will and Keen can fall in line since he’s the monarch. Just as Charles has had to bow to his mum for some things over the years.
I think its just kind of the perfect storm in terms of family dysfunction, to be honest. Charles was not the perfect father – we can debate why that was, but its a fact. And now he is probably busier than he ever was, considering he’s picking up some of the monarch’s duties as well (well not “now” during the pandemic but generally “now.”) I imagine if he wants to spend time with the grandkids, its scheduled well in advance. That’s dysfunctional IMO – lack of access to a parent like that isnt really a sign of a healthy family .
Carole’s calendar is completely cleared the minute William or Kate ask for her. That’s a different sort of dysfunction because one parent being so involved with the life of their daughter and her family isnt really healthy either. Its an enmeshed family dynamic, which is not healthy .
Do I think Charles can really complain because William turned to someone else to fill the void for him and his kids that Charles left? Not really. But do I think its healthy for Carole Middleton to be, by all accounts, so involved in the Cambridge life that it seems they cant function without her? Not really .
They’re two very different types of dysfunction and when they clash, like we see now, it gets ugly.
But the Firm will always win, and Carole knows that, hence the pushback with stories like this. She’s only the biggest influence with George for a little while longer.
Charles used his sons in Camilla promotion less than a year after DIana died. He went in for the heir and Spare Dynamics, calling for the press to be “hands off” with William and protect him while Harry was thrown to the wolves. William set up Club H but Harry was the one scapegoated by the press for using Club H, not William. He apologized for William’s behavior when William trespassed on a neighboring estate, where William went speeding along in his car. Harry would have been trashed by the media had he done the same thing and made to apologize. ANd so on. Diana did not want the heir to be paid more attention to and protected more.
I doubt William would have gotten away with ousting Harry had DIana been around. Charles seems to just let William do as he pleases.
I think that was the nature of Charles’s public complaints, Becks1. W&K knew how full his calendar is, but were refusing to schedule times that Charles *could* be with the grandkids when not working. Or the response was, Oh Granny Carole has them that day, too bad Charles.
I wonder if anything is going to become of the comments about the RF being too stuck in its ways. I seem to recall criticism of a certain duchess who was accused of wanting to modernize the monarchy.
Pretty sure these pictures of Kate were taken around the time she was engaged, about ten years ago. Amazing how much more vibrant and healthy she looked back then.
We all looked more vibrant and healthy 10 years ago :-). But, personally, I don’t think she has changed much at all.
You must be looking at her through all those stan photoshop blur tools.
You need your eyes checking.
@notasugarhere, I don’t think I’m a stan. I’m not even clear on what that means. But I think she hasn’t changed and looks the same, same hair, same outfit, same wedges, same everything.
@theduchess, LOL! No, my eyes don’t need checking but maybe yours do.
Everyone ages in the span of 10 years, Kate included.
Yes, Nic919, but everyone doesn’t visually age 20 years in 10.
I remember those pictures, taken the day before the wedding outside the Goring Hotel. So 10 years ago.
It’s obvious that this is coming from the Mids who are also trying to get into the Cambridge game of ‘ it’s WE who are the future of the RF’ – Carole has always pushed her family as royalty and as a part of the RF, they are not.
That this has happened also tells us that there is still drama behind the scenes with Carole and Chuck – still a power play over access to and influence over the Cambridges and the children. I think the ‘closeness’ to Chuck didn’t last long or was just a PR stunt. Carole still has a vice like gripe on the Cambridges and she will never let it go.
Plus Kate is obvs going to go to her mother for advice so thats a no brainer.
I always thought Carole got very bitter when she and her family were not welcomed into the Royal fold as she expected them to be. She wants titles for herself and all her children.
There’s clearly ongoing hostility between Charles and Carole, but this also shows Carole and Kate are getting worried about William. Time to not only embiggen Kate as world’s best mummy. Now they have to embiggen Carole as the world’s best grandparent, in case William has plans to leave Kate and the Middletons behind when he moves on to his next wife.
I don’t see Will leaving Kate. There’s no incentive to do so. Whatever their agreement is, it seems to work. Another thing: Who else would really want him?
If he meets someone he really truly prefers he would leave Kate IMO. If any one of the women he pursued during the 2007 breakup Kate would have been history.
When he tires of how she embarrasses him, she’ll be sidelined through either a formal separation or divorce. Or when, as Tessa writes, he really falls for someone else.
That may have been where they were headed before Meghan arrived. The Rose situation going public and William’s extreme reaction to the news getting out? When he decides to divorce Kate, he doesn’t want any comparisons to his father. It will have to look like there are no third parties involved, simply a couple who grew apart and a soon-to-be-ex-wife who couldn’t handle a public role.
Am with NOTA – if they do separate it will be spun because Kate couldn’t handle royal life, straining the relationship blah blah blah. Regardless of how we might feel about her, she will be thrown to the wolves to not only protect William but to ensure he gets what he wants.
If Charles could manage to divorce the people’s Princess, William won’t have to work near as hard because Kate does not have the public sympathy and affection her mother in law did. And right now she’s not being attacked but if there was a divorce, the establishment media would turn on her quickly.
Yep! Kate & the Middletons are toast if William divorces her. The full weight of the BRF will be brought down on them. I won’t feel sorry for Kate because she’ll be well off and still the mother of the future king. I definitely won’t feel sorry for Carole as she’s a nasty bit of work.
William is not the romantic type to fall so deeply in love he will leave his family . He has his own family under his thumb, controls the overall situation exactly as he likes. The site has labeled him based on being called out dozens of times here, a bully. His own mother-in-law probably sticks up for him when he bullies his family. He’s got the ‘perfect’ family, lord help them.
William can have a good relationship with his children AND have a happy second marriage. If he sees the chance for that, he’ll take it.
If William remarries he can have the same dynamics that Charles had with his children accepting the second wife.
If the divorce happens without any future wife already on scene, that’s William’s goal. Again, he doesn’t want to be seen as being like his father, in spite of the fact that he has cheated on Kate for two decades. He’d want it perceived as growing apart, she cannot handle the public role, then moving on ‘cleanly’ with a second wife in a couple of years.
I’m sure each side has dirt on the other and whenever one side acts up, the other side leaks stuff. It’s like the War of the Roses and they’ll end up going nuclear and destroying each other. Especially now that their mutual whipping posts the Sussex’s have left the building. Because the tabloids are losing money and access to their golden goose, the Sussex’s, they’re eventually gonna go after the Clarence House or the Middleton’s. And each side is threatening the other.
I’m sure the Mids would be decent grandparents….okay maybe mediocre at the very least. I mean anything has got to be better than the RF.
If there’s anything good about them, at least they ride or die for each other. Let’s hope that doesn’t involve attacking anyone outside of the Cambridges (ha).
What I don’t understand is William’s view towards Kate vs Carole. How you gonna like your MIL more than your wife?
If the Mids don’t treat the kids differently compared to Pippa’s kids or between George and the other two, then that would be a healthy thing. However, it’s hard to say whether or not they are doing that.
Given how thirsty they were over titles and that whole lifestyle, my guess is that the Cambridge children will remain the favourites
The only reason W&K are married is because of Carole. Otherwise, this Uni romance would have ended after Uni. As long as Carole is there to coddle William, coddle Kate, and keep the two of them from their constant fight-breakup, fight-breakup pattern? The marriage continues. This is how it is has been for years. There are three people in this marriage too, otherwise the marriage wouldn’t still exist.
The talk of Carole looking to buy property in Norfolk is another angle. William has been pulling away for years, not just with the next door neighbor. Baby #3 only happened because he was caught partying on a lad’s holiday. The pressure has been on in this business arrangement for years. When compared to the openly happy union of Harry and Meghan? The PigeonShrug couple are fraying at the edges, with the Middletons starting to get really worried William is headed for the door.
I don’t think William will ever leave the Mids. I don’t know why they will be nervous since they seem to put the relationship higher than the welfare of Kate. Heck, I think Kate is happy as long as she’s not abused or publicly embarrassed.
If William loves Carole and tolerates Kate (imo I think they at least like each other platonically lol), I think divorce will be nothing more than a weak threat. I think their PR efforts definitely run separately but both sides would want the illusion of a normal happy family to go on as long as possible. I highly doubt William has a Camilla he’s hoping to bust out, otherwise we will start seeing negative stories based on “sources” by now.
The possibility of William getting restless may be realistic, but he definitely likes the Mids and even respects Kate as a mother, I don’t think he will throw that away just for Carole to bite back and have him be painted as Charles 2.0. They just want him to stop the public disrespect imo
I mean there’s no new revelations here but you can’t blame Kate for leaning on her mother for support. William’s status in the Royal Family will provide her with some protection but the Royal Family probably still looks down on her as a commoner and they’re not known to be warm and welcoming people.
We’ve heard this for years-man I wish I could grift like these carnival of so called experts. At least the Middletons seem tight so can’t blame the Cambridges for preferring to spend time with them & for their shaping the kids more.
It’s funny when it’s about William spending more time with his in laws the Windsors are regarded as too formal & stuffy & people are understanding. But if it’s Harry prioritising time with Doria, then the Windsors are suddenly a warm, loving family unit.
I think there’s definitely some truth here. I do think Kate leans on her mother a lot (which is not anything bad or extra ordinary) but also I do think Carole is way too heavily involved beyond a “normal mother/in-law” in the life of her almost 40 year old daughter and son-in-law. I also think that the reason why William gravitated towards Kate was the Middleton’s middle class life which is filled with normality and stability compared to his for sure.
I also do think Charles and Carole have no love lost between them.
You’re right. And I think Carole is living vicariously through Kate, and will stop at nothing to keep W&K together, even leaking not-so-positive information about Charles and Camilla. She groomed Kate to be a vacant doormat and knows William’s weak spot is being spoiled by a mother figure – she’s sort of like this big spider that draws people into her web of control without them realizing it. The Cambridges really do seem to be such emotionally immature people that they need to be constantly coddled.
Hmmm, so given how Kate turned out, then I guess we can expect the children to also grow into self-absorbed, lazy, and entitled adults?!
No doubt whatsoever.
Yeah…the odds don’t look good for them. On one side there’s the Windsors with all their issues and on the other side there’s the Middletons, who have their own share of unhealthy dynamics and dirt. Both sides are all about idealizing nobility and ‘proper’ lineage, even though one side falls flat in the other side’s view on that issue. The Cambridge kids are almost certainly going to absorb all the -isms and warped perspectives of their relatives. Could one of them possibly break out of the mold when they’re an adult? Sure, but given how insular their upbringings will be AND the “you’re superior to the masses” messaging that will be impressed upon them by both sides of their family, I doubt it.
Unless Charles didn’t leak any of it, and the Cambridges/Middletons needed to distance themselves from Charles, Camilla, and all the baggage and unpopularity that comes with them.
Who is to say William wasn’t briefing against his own father to not only prop up the Middletons (since despite their newish money, they weren’t aristocrats), but also to use them as the antithesis to his over indulgent, scandal prone family members? Here you have a functional (on its face) family in the Middletons, and only they can grant William the normalcy Diana wanted for him.
It’s a PR dream that most wouldn’t question, because OF COURSE Charles is jealous. OF COURSE, it’s “better” to have royal children brought up around “normal, middle class people who have a foot in the real world. NOW we won’t have a repeat of Charles, Andrew, or < Harry".
A handful of Diana stans have a problem with Camilla, that’s it. People who meet Camilla enjoy her company, enjoy the engagements with her, and think she’s fine. Most people in the UK don’t think about the monarchy, and those who do don’t care that a divorced man got remarried.
William was absolutely pro-Middleton, anti-Charles PR for years. But as he pulls futher and futher away from kate, he sees he’ll need his father’s PR skills to sideline Kate and the Middletons.
It seems though that Charles does not rein William in. If there is no love lost I would think he’d have an easier time to tell William to stop trying to boss Harry around and do everything he could to keep Harry, Meghan
and Archie from going. I don’t think Camilla cares one way or the other but she also did nothing to support Meghan even giggled at the minister at the H and M wedding. I think Camilla naturally cares more for the futures of her 5 little grandchildren from her marriage to Andrew Parker Bowles than Charles grandchildren. I am puzzled about the dynamics of the relationship of will and Charles, in many ways he seems to favor William over Harry. I just don’t get it. Harry IMO seemed more supportive of Charles than Will though that might not be the case anymore.
William is the heir — the entire monarchy is set up to favor the heir and sideline the spare(s). They have no other option because the whole aristocratic and royal system is based on the eldest legal son inheriting basically everything. (Only recently was it decided that daughters are not to be displaced in royal precedence by later male heirs.) This is not a good system of course (ladies in lakes with swords) but it’s the one they have and mostly support.
Neither Charles nor Elizabeth rein William in because he’s the heir. “Family” doesn’t mean half as much to these people as maintaining the monarchy does. At the end of the day, the heir’s demands and whims take precedence. It seems like they’re finally trying to push back though. This weird, temporary Sandringham office setup feels more and more like the Queen’s staff is looking to keep an eye on W&K. But I wonder if it’s too late…they’ve allowed William’s temper tantrums to fester to the point where he successfully pushed his brother and his family out of the county. I’m sure Charles and Elizabeth didn’t expect things to reach that boiling point.
William is not in charge. I recall reading that Edward VIII (when Prince of Wales) rushed back when his father George V was sick (he was not dying) and there was some anger from George that Edward was “rushing things.” I don’t recall Prince Charles ordering people around as the Heir and trying to usurp what the Queen does, he waited until she passed down some of her work. I am not getting why William was the ONE to make the decision about Harry. And I don’t agree it goes along what is expected from the heir.
@Tessa – I think it all goes hand in hand. As the heir, William was always treated differently than Harry (and I do think Diana would have done her best to mitigate that had she lived.) and I think because of that, he grew up spoiled, petulant, prone to rages (because while you cant help having a temper, you can help how you react when you lose your temper, especially when you’re closing in on 40), indulged, and protected.
So now you have this almost-40 year old man who is all of those things – spoiled, petulant, etc. – and you have a grandmother who doesnt have the mental or physical energy to try to reign him in at this point, and you have a father who could never seem to reign him in so here we are. William thinks he is more important he is, both in the real world and in the royal family – because he has always been treated as such. He’s not the next king. he has to wait for his father to die to become king but he’s allowed to act like he’s going to ascend to the throne tomorrow. And who is going to try to change him? He cant be fired. His wife wont divorce him (and I bet she doesnt even push back on him in private). Carole Middleton sees the writing on the wall so she plays the role of a nurturing mother figure to him while also being very careful never to forget that he is the future future king and he’s in charge of their fortunes – so again, he is still spoils him, indulges his rages, allows his petulance, etc.
I mean sometimes if you think about it its no wonder William is a total raging ahole. He’s been allowed to behave that way his entire life. The system is set up to let him behave like that.
Sometimes to me the biggest surprise is that Harry lasted as long as he did in that environment.
William comes across as a not too bright a-hole. He’s so used to folk accepting his pronouncements as fact, that you become an enemy when you disagree. Hence his scorched earth policy with Meghan. (Glad she’s decided to fight back.) He’s too stupid to realize he’s going to bring other folk down with him.
He also seems to be an emotionally stuck teen. I mean yes he had sh!t parents. But to use the in-laws as a stick to beat your pop’s with, is a huge sign of immaturity. If he doesn’t want Charles to have a relationship with his kids, cool. Cut him off. No need to run to the media. I also guess he’s forgotten all the Middleton kids are useless do nothings. Do any of them work? Is this what he wants his kids to learn? Leech off the taxpayers?
I’m really glad Kate looks like hell. Inside and outside forces are contributing to her worn out haggard looks. Yay!!!! Her using her tears against Meghan confirmed to me she’s just as much a racist as her in-laws. Now that Meghan’s gone and she’s being judged on her own “merits”, the knives from the public are coming out. And are sharper than ever. No one deserves it more.
I don’t think William’s parents were “bad.” They both loved him. Carole had her own agenda with William, she wanted her daughter to be a royal and very badly too. She probably was very manipulative with him, telling him about the “sacrifices” her daughter made for him and how she was “dragged into” the media when she wanted more privacy and how Kate LOVES him. She talked him out of some cooling off periods. Diana arguably was stricter with William than Charles is. She had him make his own bed, do work around the house, and earn allowance money.After Diana was gone, Charles coddled him even apologizing for him and not having William apologize. William was cocooned and protected by the media. Harry was scapegoated.
As much as Katie Keen has shown her true colours by joining William in his crusade to push the Sussex’s out of the UK, you should never be “glad that Kate looks like hell”. She was molded and guided by her calculating mother, married into the BRF without having the smarts or desire to make anything of her role other than a baby factory, and her husband is a raging, entitled, philandering jerk. You’d look haggard too if you had to deal with it all. She is totally unsuited, intellectually or temperamentally, to take on the responsibilities of her current and future role and the stress of it is written all over her face. I almost think it would be best if she and William divorced, they’re clearly not happy in their marriage.
She appeared to want it too. I cringe at some of the stories about William and Kate courtship. He treated her like a doormat and she fought to get him back. She also played games. When they were not dating, she saw another woman coming on to him rushed over and pretended to be his GF so the other woman would leave. Seems odd that William was not man enough to deal with the woman himself and Kate had to “rescue”
. Really weird.
LOL, Kate will cling onto him with every last ounce of strength that she has. She’d be scared shitless at the prospect of losing him because her entire adult life has been centered on sticking to him like a barnacle and getting that hallowed crown. I actually DO think Kate would ultimately be better off divorced: at least then she’ll be free to avoid anything resembling work and have her desired ~ladies who lunch~ lifestyle in peace. She might even find a new partner who actually wants her.
You’re so much kinder and compassionate than I am. I read @Maliksmama’s comment and I’m happy Kate looks like hell, too. I’ll WOOT for it any day.
I agree, Tessa. I don’t see her as an empty puppet. She wanted the wealthy aristo life at any cost. When she and her mother saw her get a chance at William himself, albeit as his side piece while he publicly dated someone else? Nothing was going to stop the two of them, but Kate was a full participant in all of it. Still is.
Charles preferring spending time with George ‘the future King’ does not bode well for the spares, Charlotte and Louis.
If that’s true he’s repeating the same bs the Queen Mum did to him and William. Maybe it’s related more to George being older but with this family it could be the future heir nonsense as well.
I don’t recall William being placed in a Dynasty photo until he was in his teens. George was 5 or 6 when put in those pictures. A bit too young IMO.
I guess that shows Diana’s influence in stopping that. It also shows that Kate is not stopping her eldest from being placed above her other two children.
Looking at Carole in that picture with her two daughters, she is like the cat that got the canary. Do we all remember when Harry and Meghan and Archie choose to spend Christmas with Meghan mom , a grandmother just like Carole and the shit they got for it? Piss Morgan going on about stop complaining and spend Christmas with the queen, Sharon Osborne also had her say about bad Harry and Meghan, that hobbit rob stewart also attacked them for abandoning the queen like she was some kind of shining example of a perfect lovable granny. The Woman is cold fish . Anyway my point is, why does all this sounds so completely normal and acceptable that the future king will be more middle class than royal. I thought that was not allowed.
Anybody else think that the royal family are secretly repulsed by the middletons?
Probably. By most accounts they are classist snobs and Carole must seem very nouveau riche to them. I think of all the Middletons, Michael is the most normal one. The rest of them, especially James and Pippa, are hustling hard. I think it was pretty crass of Pippa to trade on her royal connection for the first two years of Kate’ marriage, and notice you rarely see Pippa and Kate together anymore.
Oh definitely. Remember that these people are so grossly obsessed with lineage/class and the Middletons are clearly “NQOCD”. Their disdain is probably amplified by how blatant the Middleton women made their social climbing attempts, blatant enough for that charming “Wisteria sisters” nickname. I’m sure that even now, the RF has a ‘nose in the air’ attitude towards Kate, but since she’s a good little doormat, they tolerate her well enough.
I am sure its not so secret.
That’s what I was going to say. They are tolerated and barely.
The Windsors aren’t repulsed by Sophie’s middle class father. The crux is how tacky the Middletons are. They are so PR-hungry and tacky, with demanding royal discounts for themselves for years, etc.
William loves Carole because she loves his status as ffk, so with her, he literally doesn’t have to do anything for her reverence but exist. Tsk.
The reason why Carole has absolutely not prepared Kate for royal life is to had the possibilitited to continue to exercise total control and big influnced over the royal life of her daughter because she is living woken up by proxy. But if Carole exerts a totaly great influence on the children of the Cambridges Charles has reason to worry. Carole raises lazy, tasteless, snobbish, mean and utterly stupid kids. Charles was very lucky to have Lord Louis Mountbatten in his training.
Good…? I don’t care either way. But my first thought was “well, if I had to choose the lesser of two inadequate influences I’d choose Carol honestly”.
The one good about the Middleton clan is that Carole and Mike Middleton will provide more of a stabilizing force for the Cambridge grandchildren. William and Harry were mostly raised by the BRF and Diana was from an aristo background, she wasn’t a commoner. I don’t know how close Harry and William were to the Spencer side of the family growing up, but they were pretty dysfunctional too. The Middletons will provide more “normalcy” in theory for the Cambridge kids. I just hope they aren’t treated differently from Pippa’s and James’s (if he chooses to have any) kids.
Kate may over-rely on her mother but I can’t knock her for preferring to bring her kids to Grandma and Grandpa Middleton over Charles and Camilla. But whenever we see the kids in pictures or interactions with Charles, they seem pretty relaxed. I think he sees them and spends time with them regularly.
I don’t think Charles does. He also never had a one on one photo with his only granddaughter released, just the boys. I find that odd.
I see a different sort of dysfunction with the Middletons, so while they might be “better” than the BRF in some ways, I don’t think the difference is all that great.
I think it will be interesting to see how their dynamics will develop when the children enter their teens. In 10 years from now George will be turning 18 and probably have a girlfriend. He will be the heartthrob that Willie once was. Any girl he dates will be the new focus of press attention.I don’t think kate or ma are going to handle that well and if they start meddling in George’s relationships and smearing every girl he dates then it could be history repeating itself. Kate couldn’t handle being compared to a woman her own age, once the next generation kicks in, she will be completely forgotten about.
I’m surprised Carole never cracked onto Charles, then she can be future queen instead, Seriously this woman reeks of desperation and what exactly has she achieved in all this? Her business is sinking, she’s constantly trying to keep the press fed from exposing her family secrets and the aristocracy still rejects them.
Ma thought the second Kate secured the bag, she would officially become ‘diana’ and all the middletons dreams would come true. Expect that Kate has never lived up to her mother in law, not by a mile. Ma spent years invested in kate and she’s turned out to be a dud duchess. no wonder they hate Meghan, she’s everything ma wanted kate to be.
I really doubt Willie loves Carole and Michael. He knows Ma is a hustler, but she has been useful as Kate’s unofficial publicist. And as for Pippa, I don’t think she and Kate are close at all. Didn’t Tatler say that Pippa “lives in her sisters shadow”. Lol, considering we know kate did work Tatler on the article, it seems like shade coming from her own sister. Probably payback for being more popular than her growing up.
Team no one. I think they were all shitty parents and raised children who couldn’t take no for an answer (William), and who never worked a day in her life (Kate). Both spoiled and wildly insecure, these two are a reflection of their parents.
The Cambridge kids are definitely going to live a lifestyle of privilege, but I feel for them as they grow older. This which family is going to have more influence is asinine. Both families have their faults. The royal family is more of a business (having to schedule meetings through office staff?!?) so I doubt there is much influence there. I will agree that Anne seems to have normal interactions with her grandchildren, but this mirrors her relationship with her kids. Charles may have been the best father he was capable of, but his fragile ego, poor communication skills and obsession with rehabbing Camilla really impacted his relationship with his sons. As they got older he was more of a wallet than a Dad. The Middleton’s are also lacking. They may be a close knit family, but this also is out of design. Growing up the kids were taught to only be friendly with people that could help them move up the ladder. People catch on to this and that is why they had to invite random people from the village because they had most likely worn out their welcome by casting people aside for someone new who could be more helpful. Also, of the three kids, none have been successful on their own or have skills to even make a living outside of marriage. I actually feel bad for James. The focus seems to have been on who you know not what you know. I also don’t think William’s relationship with the Midds is as strong as it once was. Remember after the birth of Louis Kate went to Mike and Carol’s anniversary alone. They like the privileges William affords them, but I don’t think they are necessarily fans of his. Anyway, both sides are just as messed up as the other one, just in different ways. I just hope their parents don’t push them into the spotlight too early because their fragile egos can’t take not being the stars of the royal family. Make no mistake, they may be FFk and FFQ, but they are both very thirsty.
Hasn’t this article already been written 30 times since George was born (concieved)?
Pippa has NO title coming up. I live near the Glen Affric estate the Matthews own and there is NO title.