Peter Hunt is one of the few British royal commentators who refused to take the pettiest, nastiest course over the past year. He’s been pretty consistent in his analysis that the monarchy treated Meghan and Harry poorly, and that the Sussexit was a completely sh-tty idea from the perspective of the future of the monarchy. Meaning, Hunt believed that the Queen and her people absolutely should have made more of an effort to try something new, to protect the Sussexes and work out a half-in/half-out model. A few weeks ago, he even noted that it was the Queen who acted poorly in this drama, and that the institution looks petty and mean-spirited. Well, his assessment of where things stand post-interview is even bleaker.
An institution that weathered and survived the abdication crisis and the aftermath of the death of Diana Princess of Wales is now left reeling by a two-hour long programme on primetime American television. It’s a broadcast in which the grandson of a queen and his wife made crystal clear that marrying into the British royal family in the 21st century is no fairytale.
The claim of racism is one that will endure. No Palace spin can erase it from the collective memory. The charge is that one of Harry’s relatives asked him, when Meghan was pregnant with Archie, ‘how dark his skin might be when he is born’. Harry told Oprah the conversation ‘was awkward’ and left him ‘a bit shocked’. The couple haven’t revealed the identity of the royal who posed the question — a toxic one for an institution that provides the constitutional head of state for a multicultural United Kingdom and fifteen other countries. Just as damaging is Harry’s hurt at his family’s failure to come to his aid and condemn some of the media coverage that was racist, when his relationship with Meghan was made public.
The charge sheet against the House of Windsor, post-Oprah, is a long one. On the basis of Meghan’s account, it’s an ancient institution that has had painful lessons inflicted on it and it hasn’t learnt from them. With her son by the departed duchess’ side for part of the show, the spectre of Diana hung over this programme. Despite the mental health problems experienced by the late princess, Meghan has now told the world that she experienced suicidal thoughts when she married a prince, and she received no help.
Also cut adrift, in his telling, was Harry by his own father who stopped taking his son’s calls. The only person to emerge relatively unscathed is the Queen — apart from the minor matter that she is the head of the family that has been subjected to such a battering in this broadcast.
It’s a one-sided account of Megxit that will incense those who insist they did try to help the newest Windsor navigate her royal role. But their voices can’t compete with one amplified by an audience with Oprah.
Meghan’s naivety about what she was marrying into is striking. Harry’s failure to adequately prepare her is laid bare. It was Fergie, of all people, who had to come to Meghan’s aid and teach her how to curtsy, before a private meeting with her husband’s grandmother.
Harry and Meghan will likely view this interview as a cathartic moment. No longer ‘trapped within the system of the monarchy’ they have bypassed the British press, settled scores and painted an optimistic picture of their future.
The immediate future of the Windsors they left behind is less rosy. They’ll be hoping furiously that just like in 1936 and 1997 they will recover and return the focus to their definition of what duty should look like. But make no mistake, the institution of the British monarchy has been damaged by this interview. Republicans will hope it’s lasting; monarchists will be praying that it’s passing.
I actually agree with him that Meghan’s naivete was striking. It wasn’t quite as “lamb to the slaughter” as Diana’s story, but the fact that no one was really trying to prepare her for any of it in 2017 and 2018 is shocking. I think Meghan is just an optimist, and she often veers towards tunnel-vision in her quest to make things work. She loved Harry and they were getting married, she told herself, and the rest was just noise. Until that noise became deafening as all of the warning signs which she had ignored were screaming in her face. Still, the reason why no one helped her or prepared her in those early years was this: they didn’t think the marriage would happen, and when M&H got engaged, they were actively sabotaging her.
Also: “The only person to emerge relatively unscathed is the Queen — apart from the minor matter that she is the head of the family that has been subjected to such a battering in this broadcast.” Reading between the lines of the interview and the analysis, it’s clear that Harry adores his grandmother but he absolutely does blame her for some of this. Her absence from his criticism speaks volumes about how out-of-touch she actually was and is.
This is a stain on the royals that will endure. No amount of palace spin will erase. #OprahMeghanHarry pic.twitter.com/l9jtAK4llk
— Peter Hunt (@_PeterHunt) March 8, 2021
Photos courtesy of Backgrid.
The institution is not damaged enough IMHO. Everyone’s calling for a republic but sadly that won’t happen as the monarchy supports a whole system around the hereditary peers called the House of Lords. This is just one battle that’s been lost not the war. They will simply lay low and spend more money on PR rather than on protection for Harry and his family.
I know, I know but an important seed has been planted and it will only continue to grow.
This is a long game and I’m going to enjoy this backlash against that violent institution while it lasts.
The things they have done to Meghan are evil, to say the least and yet still are small in comparison to the scale of atrocities the British empire has carried out. They monarchy must be abolished and give reparations. I am glad this is encouraging more scrutiny into how it works
Death by a thousand cuts Elizabeth. If things keep going they way they are, when it’s George’s turn the throne he inherits will likely be very, very different from what his great-grandmother and his grandfather inherited.
Sid, your comment about George being on the throne makes me wonder how the family can even justify to themselves or the public anymore how the monarchy and being king and spare and extra spare is good for George and his siblings. Usually, when they need good press, they trot those kids out, but can they even do that now? After what we’ve heard about the toxicity and the absolute breakdown of all human familial love and connection in order to perpetuate “the institution”? How do you shove young, innocent children and a toddler in people’s faces and say “don’t worry, look at these cute kids and babies being raised in the monarchy! It’s totally worth it to keep us around!” and then not expect people to feel absolutely sick at the thought of these kids growing up in the institution Meghan and Harry described, for the purpose of being sacrificed to the institution, just to perpetuate the existence of said evil, racist, sexist, toxic institution that no one actually NEEDS? “Oh it’s fun to collect plates with the royals’ faces on them and I like seeing nice grandma Queen on my money,” is really not a good enough justification for forcing anyone (especially little children) to live in this perpetual Hell of toxicity, back biting, manipulation, isolation, and abject terror of pissing the press off, with no hope of escaping without being absolutely ruined emotionally and socially and financially and psychologically, but also no help or access to mental health care if they stay, and with no real family support whether you stay or go because all human emotion has been systematically destroyed in all of the members of the “family.”
It won’t cause an outright republican movement.
But their relevance and social pull will wane.
They’ve had scandals and human rights abuses before that they have weathered, but this is the first major one in the age of social media and the internet. That’s going to make a huge difference.
Once QEII is gone I think the monarchy will go downhill quickly (more than currently). Charles and William are charisma vacuums and inspire zero interest. I also think once the Queen is gone that the tabloids will take the gloves off and a lot of ugly things hidden now (while the Queen is alive) will come out.
More and more people don’t see the point of a monarchy anymore.
Damaged?! I sure as hell hope so!
I not only want the monarchy to be damaged, but I hope that that parasitical and historically evil institution dissolves and ends within my lifetime.
Same
And can we also be clear here: it is not the interview that did the damage. They did it to themselves.
OK, rest of the world. We’re really going to need you. Our press – even the so-called respectable ones – appear to be doubling down on their ‘Meghan is Evil Incarnate” crap, which following this interview is unutterably depressing. Only the Guardian seems to be taking H&M’s side.
We really need the press in the US and aaallll the Commonwealth countries to go all in on the House of Windsor so this doesn’t just get swept away and we go back to business as usual.
Read all the articles in The Guardian today. The coverage is extremely fair and balanced.
I would advise all fellow CBers to click over and read The Guardian coverage of the Oprah interview.
I am financially supporting The Guardian base in the article about Harry and Meghan solely. I will stop if they stop!
They also have a great tv and movie review section. Their list of 100 best shows of 2020 was great content. And I always find more good stuff in the comments section. All around great paper.
I went over to The Guardian to check out the coverage and I read the weirdest thing. Maybe my brain hasn’t kicked in because I was up late following all of this.
Anyway, there one about the comments about H&M having a ceremony 3 days before the “big” wedding creating confusion. (I admit I found it a little confusing myself because it doesn’t sound like a legal wedding.)
But then there’s this quote:
“She’s entitled to consider it her marriage if she wants to. Americans are much less concerned with the specifics of marriage law than English clergy.
“Most of their wedding ceremonies aren’t legal weddings … saying ‘we really got married three days before in a secret ceremony’ is not actually the same as saying they were legally wed three days before everyone thought they were.”
Most of our wedding ceremonies aren’t legal weddings? Of course they are. I don’t get it. Does anyone see what I’m missing here?
The interview hasn’t aired yet in the UK, correct? The reporting of what was said versus hearing it come from Meghan, her expression, her tone, her body language and her absolute poise while relaying devastating details makes a difference. Of course, the attacks will continue on her in the UK, but hopefully not everyone will be able to remain a cold-hearted reptile after watching the entire interview.
From what I’ve seen on social media in the US we’re ready for a new stand against the UK over this shit.
Even a place like Reddit which has a problematic past is filled with outraged posts at the Royals from Meghan’s revelations.
People who’ve never cared about the monarchy before are paying attention they tried to harm our girl Meghan, being an American. We’re adopting Harry as our own now for being such a good man.
Taking her freedom away especially did not go down well. You know us Americans and our thing about freedom.
She’s got all of black Twitter backing her up. You know how many Karen’s they’ve taken down over the years? This what they do, they’re pros at it and this is the Royal House of Karens.
Just don’t read any of the UK Reddit channels. They loathe Harry and Meghan and think this is all bullshit. Really depressing to read.
I hope so… I am furious they took away her passport. That is some medieval imprisonment shit. And just saw Jen Psaki said Biden would absolutely continue a strong relationship with England. Disgusting, honestly. Virginia Giuffre is also an American citizen, why isn’t Biden’s DOJ pursuing Andrew? I know it’s probably diplomacy and so on, but I wish I could see the guilty pay.
I’m thinking the Firm will be throwing a really BIG holiday party for the royal 🐀 Rota at the end of this year for a ‘job well done.’ Other than that, I don’t see anything changing in jolly ole England.
“It was Fergie, of all people, who had to come to Meghan’s aid and teach her how to curtsy, before a private meeting with her husband’s grandmother.”
I found this tidbit and Megan’s comments about the Yorks interesting. I was left wondering if his mother’s “good friend” who Meghan said has helped her through this is Fergie?
I guessed it may have been Elton John who was Diana’s friend who helped.
That’s also a good guess.
Didn’t Elton lend H&M his plane once?
I bet it was him.
It was rather baffling to hear Meghan say she wasn’t aware she would be expected to curtsy to the Queen—how is that even possible? Did she never read or watch a cartoon of Cinderella, let alone a movie about a Queen—nothing? And how could Harry not have given her any tips? This was the only note in the interview that rang questionable to my ears, but I believe that it did happen. Just….strange.
She wasn’t aware that she had to curtsy to the queen in private. She clearly stated she understood it was for ceremonial occasions definitely, but in private away from the public pomp and circumstance she didn’t know it still had to be done. Honestly neither did I.
I think she thought she was going to a family lunch and she surely would have shaken the queens hand as she met her or something. I dont think she realized that you always curtsy to the queen, in public or private, official event or family event, the first time you see her.
She literally said she knew she’d have to do it in public but didn’t think they did it in private. And she also said absolutely nobody gave her information to prepare her besides Harry…and in this case *Sarah Ferguson*.
I’ve heard that royals in other families dont bother with the curtseying in private but the British apparently do.
She explained it! you curtsey even in private? come on, how does that make sense?
In an official capacity, of course but privately? what for? who is there to watch?
She also said she is happy she didn’t know so much about it because the meeting went well because she didn’t overthink all of it! I am a US American, jeez I would never know I should curtsey to her even in private as I asked before, what for exactly?
This is a messed up system! so messed up and that people could justify such nonsense is mindblowing! thx gosh for the US revolution; Meghan is back home; she will deal with the US racism like we all do but that’s a beast she would know
As an American I was absolutely not aware you had to curtsy to the Queen in private either until I watched The Crown.
No idea. We just don’t cow tow to people like that, it seems so weirdly subservient.
Unless you’re in the military and it’s like your job to salute we have no context for that.
I and apparently Meghan only assumed this was like a ceremonial thing only.
The Fergie bit surprised me and it seems Meghan is good with Fergie. I know many of us theorised that the “Meghan hates Eugenie and steals her thunder” stories comes from Andrew and Fergie rather than Eugenie itself but maybe it’s just Andrew? Unless Meghan doesn’t know Fergie is also behind it
It would explain why Fergie was invited to the Sussex wedding, when she was persona non grata at the Cambridge wedding. Many assumed the Sussex invite was because Harry and Eugenie were besties, but if it turns out that Fergie made an effort to be welcoming, it makes sense.
Meghan being “good” with Fergie may be due to her “good” relations ship with Eugenie or being “good” with Fergie is why she has a good relationship with Eugenie.
I got the feeling from the Oprah interview that Meghan really does like Fergie.
Some tabloids have hinted that Julia Samuel, a British psychotherapist and pediatric counsellor, may be the Diana friend that has helped and or advised Harry & Meghan.
Maybe Will or the Middletons try to stir up the Meghan vs Eugenie things because there are reports that Kate and the York sisters don’t get along.
That’s an interesting thought. She was Diana’s friend but she also knows more about the family than a friend of Diana’s might and would have been better able to help.
Weren’t Diana and Sarah cousins of some degree?
It could have been Rosa Monckton or any of the other nonroyal friends that Diana left behind. Rosa may have continued to support Harry behind the scenes and Harry may have connected her with Meghan.
One of Sarah’s cousins married Diana sister Lady Jane Fellowes.
Sarah Ferguson is a mess. She’s Andrew’s toady and an absolute financial disaster with zero discretion. She was friends with Epstein and tried to make excuses for Andrew. Let’s not start idealizing a woman who is just… wretched.
Yep, Meghan has a broken picker.
“The Institution of the British Monarchy Damaged Themselves.”
Fixed it.
Was just coming here to say this exact thing! This was not M&H’s fault. Also I didn’t really like the tone of this piece. I’m not too familiar with Hunt but calling in Megxit and all the “one sidedness” is annoying since we have only heard from one side up until now.
Nailed it.
Precisely!
100%. The RF have only themselves to blame.
Nothing will EVER erase that statement.
I hope at some point we get confirmation of WHO *exactly* said that. I do think it was William, when H&M got back from the Oceana tour. While I *do* think Willileaks was against the marriage to begin with, he and Harry DID look happy in the walkabout before the ceremony, and I don’t think that Harry would’ve had him stand up with him if William had said that BEFORE the wedding. JMO
Good point. If it was Charles it probably wasn’t until after the wedding bc they were still on good enough terms for him to walk her down the aisle
I think he did a job summarizing. And this whole interview was a gasp inducing, jaw dropping and sometimes smiling two hours.
One person tweeted: Can’t afford Meghan security (with a picture of a gold plated piano in the background of a pic with Liz). Yeah, that’s the craziness of it all.
https://www.republic.org.uk/petition#sign
Even if nothing comes from this petition everyone reading this from the UK should still make their voices heard.
Thank you, I’ve signed. The message needs to be amplified.
I have signed the petition.
I appreciated that Oprah pushed back on Meghan’s naïveté, because that has been the one thing that has always struck me as a bit disingenuous. But, the ‘meeting the queen at a family lunch’ story makes her perspective more clear. She thought it was a family first and a monarchy second, which was clearly not the case.
I’m team Megan and Harry but that first part about “never googling Harry or his family” felt disingenuous.
I’m hoping it’s bc she’s an actress and used to the press not having the story correct. (She wanted to have her own opinion) But.
Why wouldn’t she at least Google the royal family to understand what she was getting into. I’m glad Oprah pushed back.
Just wish Meghan hadn’t admitted this part.
That said my mouth was hanging open most of the two hours. Even bigger supporter of theirs afterwards.
Yeah I found them completely sympathetic and believable except her naivete was surprising to me. And…I don’t know that I really buy that she didn’t google Harry AT ALL, but probably there is no good way to say “I only googled him a little bit” because it would get spun into her scheming to get Harry or some such nonsense.
Meghan was doing PR before she met Harry and I am sure she knows more than anyone that for people who are public figures at all, googling them is not the way to build an interpersonal relationship out of the public eye.
I see no reason why she should not have admitted this. She never ever said that she didn’t know who he was or why he was famous, she just said she never googled the details because he was sharing them with her himself and that part was the most special to her.
Oprah wasn’t pushing back. Oprah was asking the questions that everyone who hates Meghan has been asking since the beginning, in a more compassionate way, to give her the chance to defend herself.
I think you can google and Wikipedia all you want but you would never know the complete truth about the British Royal Family and how they operate until you are on the inside.
@BayTampaBay, that’s very true too. Like she said, what is shown to the public is different than what it’s like behind the scenes.
To me, her claim that she didn’t google the family rings true to me. I think MM is a supremely confident and idealistic woman, or at least she was prior to joining the RF. Her years of independence, with a successful career, philanthropy and empowered upbringing with Doria, gave her confidence to trust her own instincts. As a celebrity herself, she would know that googling someone is not going to give you the whole picture or even an accurate picture of anything. She probably felt confident that she was a good judge of character and situations and she could handle whatever was to come. If I had to speculate, the fact that the challenges she faced in the BRF were insurmountable probably took a huge toll on her self-belief and contributed to her mental health crisis. I say shame on all of them for systematically dismantling a confident, empowered woman of colour.
I got the impression she wanted to build trust with Harry. I deliberately haven’t Googled past boyfriends for that reason.
Oprah expressed a few moments of naivete herself!
I agree about the family lunch story, but also more broadly I really think Meghan thought that if the family had a problem with her marrying in that they simply wouldn’t have allowed it to happen. She took their “allowance” as acceptance, and I think Harry did too. I also think that Harry bears a large part of the blame here, but I don’t think that we can brush aside the decades of gaslighting and emotional abuse he was subjected to.
In reality they decided that rather than arguing with Harry it was just easier to sit back and chip away at her, destroy her from the sidelines, use her for their own pr gain and gradually force her out. They thought this approach would prove they were right about her the whole time, and never in a million years thought she’d get pregnant before they ousted her.
Then again, it’s different when a girlfriend becomes a wife. I’ve been in situations where, as a black woman, dating a white man was fine, but it was also clear to me that if I were a fiance, I would have been seen in a whole different light. Maybe Meghan didn’t consider that because she is white passing, (to some), and she feels comfortable in white spaces. Also, British politeness is very guarded, and its easy to miss clues that people don’t like you, especially for Americans. We tend to be so open and forward about our likes and dislikes that it can be hard for us to read subtlety.
I’ve always been a little wary of the idea they were plotting to get Meghan to leave from the beginning of the marriage. I too thought when she was allowed to marry Harry they were at least going to see if she’d sink or swim on her own.
But when she said they told her to continue acting after the wedding “because there was no money for her” my jaw literally dropped. That’s out and out sabotage. Can you imagine how much worse the coverage of her would be? And not just from in the toxic press and monarchists. I apologize for every time I ever doubted or rolled my eyes at the notion they’ve been actively setting her up from the start.
I don’t believe she didn’t google but I can relate to Meghan in some sense. I married into a very old school conservative southern family (read very quiet, enduring, but with lots of mean thoughts and behaviors toward others) and I come from a blue-collar, hard scrabble Midwest family that is open, opinionated, and VERY emotional and loving. I know I am considered trash by his family. Everybody in this family is entrenched in a certain culture including my husband in some ways.
Everybody warned me about “bless your heart” and I saw what was expected of me in my actions but I truly believed that the family would love me for who I was and care for me, just the way I am, because of that love and in spite of our differences. Like I saw what performative actions I should take but I never knew that I was expected to, like, epistemically change myself. That I wasn’t supposed to feel what I felt or share anything with anybody and that I was always to take what i received and deal with it – nothing can ever prepare you for rejection by the only people you trust.
And I’m fine. My husband is not emotionally in touch but he accepts me for who I am and tries very hard to be my ally and I got a therapist so I could talk to someone else and fulfill that emotional need to share.
I believe it as someone who’s worked in Hollywood and seen what Meghan has seen there.
When you’ve safely navigated a town full of Harvey Weinsteins yes you’d probably think you could handle anything and that you had seen it all. And that an “upstanding” royal institution was safe and a walk in the park comparatively.
You’d also assume the monarchy was a professional setting being that it is officially a head of state. Meghan probably though she was marrying into a family that operated like a proper government administration does. When really she was marrying into something more akin to Hamlet.
HeyJude, totally agreed. Meghan probably figured that at least the RF had rules, structure, and boundaries–which Hollywood often does not. 😉
How the royals respond to this will be telling.
What they should do: lay low. Take the L. Quietly have the Queen, Charles, William, and Kate reach out to them, and let it be known that they have done so. Call off this ridiculous bullying inquiry. Fire Jason Knauf. Let it be known that they will respond first as a family, not as an institution. Acknowledge that mistakes were made and lessons were learned. Create an inquiry into rac and racism within the palace. Make a show of inviting the Sussexes back to Trooping, or some event this summer, and make a show of welcoming them. They are going to need the Sussexes star power. They can rebuild their reputation and look “royal” doing it. The public will forgive them, and all will go on. Time will wash away the tarnish, as it did with Diana.
This could, over time, appease the Commonwealth. Bring the Americans (who’s interest they rely on for their own brand) back on board. They have made their own brand radioactive in the US in a way that even Diana’s interview did not. They try to fight a popularity war with Harry and Meghan in the US and they will lose. They won’t be able to set foot in the US for a decade, if then. There will be protests at any event they attend, jokes on late night TV, etc.
They could realign themselves with the Sussexes, and benefit from their star power.
But I don’t think they will do this. I think they will double down, and come out of this looking even worse. Every shitty thing they do now only confirms what Harry and Meghan say about them. They can’t win this battle. No dirt they can dig up on Meghan or Harry makes a difference. In fact, they push back hard enough and Harry can tell the world where the bodies are buried. They can become an apartheid instititution welcome only to whites if they wish, a diminished royal family in a diminished Great Britain.
Do you think Will and Kate will show up at the Bafta’s this year?
This is too rational so they will never do……instead they will continue with the smears. After all, as was shown in additional clips this morning, H finally recognized that the uk is bigoted; not just the press but the public as well. of course it is not everybody but a lot are and those are most likely royalists! so the rf will continue to push their smears with that audience…. what they have damaged is their international reputation especially in the US; it will be interesting to see how Commonwealth countries take this!
BRF be like “Yeah that makes sense but we’re not gonna do that”.
Emily Andrews, as I’m sure you’re lurking here maybe you should send your palace sources a link to lanne’s comments. It’s probably the best plan anyone could come up with to salvage the utter mess they’ve created.
You’ve given excellent suggestions and if there was even one competent person at the palace, they would do all this.
But there isn’t and they won’t do this and instead they’ll just double down
There isn’t a single brain among them at the palace, that’s for sure.
Harry took the last Windsor braincells with him when he left.
These are excellent suggestions and if the Palace had any brains or savvy whatsoever they would follow your advice. But – sadly – they don’t. They will double down, keep their heads in the sand and continue blaming Meghan for everything bad that goes on in their lives.
I don’t think this would work, because it’s predicated on H&M willing to believe the RF is going to work with them in good faith.
Also, I think the Cambridges will go to the BAFTAs. If there’s one thing you can rely upon with respect to the BRF, it’s their inability to read the room.
Did you notice how Kate quietly released a video chat for IWD wearing a pink Pusey bow blouse? As if she has ever done anything for women’s issues? Meghan meanwhile was championing women’s issues before her marriage.
This is SUCH a bad look for the monarchy. this interview, firstly, wiped clean William’s two big initiatives – mental health and anti-racism (well he’s trying the anti-racism thing, I think this just killed it….). KP is going to get hammered every time they touch those topics in the future.
Second, it exposed the royal family’s relationship with the tabloids, and there was an undertone there – that the family left Harry and Meghan out to dry in order to preserve their relationship with the tabloids. I think this was a reference to both Andrew and William’s affair.
Third, it laid bare the extreme dysfunction of the royal family. I think people “know” the family is dysfunctional but to hear how it played out for Meghan – that was bad.
I think the dysfunction was evident when Betty and Phil embarked on a six month tour, leaving their own young children to the staff.
Is that the tour where when they returned, Margaret, the Queen Mother, and little Charles were waiting at the train station for them and Charles didn’t even get a hug from his parents? Just a handshake or a headpat or something like that? Tells you a lot.
“that the family left Harry and Meghan out to dry in order to preserve their relationship with the tabloids.”
That is the #1 conclusion I took away from last nights interview.
I interpreted that as let’s make a deal; we will use Meghan as fresh meat to throw at tabloids and in return you will leave the rest of us alone.
What do you think will and Kate are going to do about their “causes”? Will they drop them and pivot to something else? Will they just take a break from any mental health or racism work until the backlash cools down a bit? Do you see them leaning in even harder to that work in an attempt to “prove” they’re not unsupportive bullies and racists? Will their patronages even want them around anymore? I feel like every time they do anything with mental health or racism, they are going to get bombarded with clips of the Meghan and Harry interview and comments calling them hypocrites and assholes in the comments of news articles, and social media posts both on their page and the charities’ social pages. Will they attempt to suppress the backlash by either deleting or turning off comments? My guess is they will go radio silent for a long time, no engagements, no zooms, no events. And then come out for something glamorous and traditional where they don’t have to speak, just wave and wear a new dress.
I’m not even sure how kate can continue with Early Years since it’s obvious the family cared 0% about the health and safety of Meghan and Archie while Meg was pregnant, and also Archie by himself after he was born. That’s not something that can be fixed by posing with little black kids at a nursery school.
What are they going to do? Will pictures of the kids even work right now? It would basically be “hey look at our white kids. The white royal kids. The actual princes and princess, the ones that matter, the ones that are better than the quarter black kids. See their titles? See their security? See their support?”
Those are all good questions and I have no idea. If I was them, I would do lay low for a while and then probably pivot away from mental health and anti-racism for a while, maybe permanently. That would be the smart thing to do, but we know they arent very smart, gold standard advisors notwithstanding.
And you’re right, now everything like pictures with little black kids is going to be scrutinized beyond belief. “oh so this kid isnt too black for the royals??” Its going to be so so messy. The Cambridges have no one to blame by themselves but its still going to be messy. And yes, every picture of the white princes and princess are just going to bring up this interview again and again.
I bet KP will turn off their comments for a long time on twitter. I did notice on IG they had a commonwealth post and the comments were all SUPER positive and glowing towards the queen, which tells me they are moderating hardcore.
Fortunately, I think no one outside royal watchers has even been paying attention to the Cambridge projects, so it won’t be difficult to drop them. William is already very keen on environmentalism and Kate is very keen on photography; they’ve done high profile projects for both. And the redistribution of patronages is the perfect opportunity to take up new causes.
Someone posted on Twitter (a blue check) that they had worked with W, K and H for Heads Together and that only Harry was authentic about it. The others two were hypocrites and audacious.
The institution is very badly damaged, but I know just how to fix it: Burn the motherf–ker down.
Lizzie Windsor with media hacks
Gave Meghan Markle 40 whacks
When Meghan saw what she had done
She gave her Majesty 41
Bravo!! lolol
I wanna jump rope to this!
It has not been damaged enough. There will always be a Royal family as long as racism still exist…
Yep, and the classism that goes along with it.
I believe Meghan thought that she would be guided, coached, taught all those protocols and whatnot on the job but it looks like they were setting her up for failure at every turn, hence all the uproar about breaking protocols. They couldn’t wait to criticize her at every opportunity. She’s naïve only for not knowing just how toxic they were going to be.
True. Like was said up thread, she probably thought that if the family was dead set against her they would have tried to ban the marriage. She had no clue that the real plan was to use the media as a tool to try and force her out. I think she was naive but I feel like of course it was understandable- she would have looked to Harry for guidance and insight, and unfortunately he was naive too about what monsters his family are. God, what a rude awakening for them both.
What everyone is forgetting here is why the press went after them and why they had no protection from the BRF: they were too popular and taking attention away from others. They had to be quashed. The BRF threw them to the lions and looked away because it suited them.
You know people point out Megan’s naivete in this but here is the thing. Its not like she just showed up from America out of the blue. People don’t bring up the fact that she knew a lot of the same people Harry knew, like she said she knew Eugenie first. And she was introduced to Harry specifically, its not like she just met him at a bar. So she ran in these circles with a lot of rich folks. Meghan filled her Roladex with plenty of names along the way. And these folks accepted her or appeared to anyway. So I don’t think its out of the realm of possibility that she would feel that they would continue to accept her. And saying she was naive imo at least, negates that this was a concerted smear campaign launched in the media by I believe the Middletons and William. Racism jet fueled it big time.
That is an excellent point.
Very good points. and beyond the circles M already ran in, the BRF was initially welcoming, so it would only be natural that Meghan expect that to continue. I suspect that Harry was so in love with and awed by her (and as he mentioned in the interview, not yet awoken w/r/t his family’s racism) that he didn’t think there would be any major issues, he thought his family would love and be impressed by her too. they both were naive in the beginning, but not without some cause.
That’s the thing. There was non stop sabotage. Even if Harry had prepared her more there were things he wasn’t expecting to deal with.
I think Harry and Meghan’s interview has destroyed the Royal Family’s attempted smearing of Meghan with those bullying accusations. The Queen will survive this but I’m not sure Charles will ever be King.
‘Family first, institution second’ is a great descriptor of how it should be and is in other royal families. but is in fact dangerously the opposite in the BRF hence Diana and the compassion both harry and meghan feel for those “trapped” in the system. They are literally blaming the matrix for members’ bad behavior but at a certain point accountability and power to change is possible in this day and age and refusing to is and can be disappointing /heartbreaking.
This is a family that except for maybe the queen and Anne have consistently complained about their lives and “work”. Charles and especially William have complained plenty of times about their lives and how reluctant they are about them.
They finally get someone who actually likes the work, wants to do the work and excels at it. They could have sat back and trimmed rose bushes and led their boring insular lives. Instead they let their jealousy and racism take over . A lot of people found this whole family boring but with the Andrew revelations they are finding them borderline criminal. Harry and Megan could have taken so much heat off of them and their protection of a pedophile. They wanted to work in any capacity. They even offered to move to NZ or SA and still work. But no, this short sighted racist family and institution bungled this from day one.
They took her car keys. They took her driving license. They took her fucking passport. What difference is there between the British Royal Family and the House of Saud?! To imprison her, to leave her keening with a thousand mental wounds inflicted on her, to isolate her to the point of suicide?! This is unforgivable. This is absofuckinglutely unforgivable. Hunt is right. The Royal Family – particularly with its piss-poor own-goal PR – cannot recover from this.
Meghan was told to “50% less of herself” early on. Can you imagine?
Right?!?! They couldn’t stand that the biracial American out shown their English rose ten fold so they set out to destroy her
I’m sure they meant 50% less black.
I recall back when Finding Freedom came out, there was a suggestion that the Palace was “relieved” that it hadn’t been worse. Well I guess now we know what they were really worried would come out.
The sickening thing is that if (Charles? William?) now regrets bringing up skin color, it’s probably only because Archie looks like a mini-Harry right now.
Re Meghan: I recall her saying once that some of her British friends tried to warn her about the British PRESS, but Meghan didn’t want to hear it because she was in her love bubble and didn’t want it to burst. And I also agree that she probably felt she would be accepted because of people like Eugenie and Harry’s old friends were cool with her. And maybe it was Meghan’s policy not to Google dates because she knows personally how things get skewed and twisted in the press when it comes to celebrities and she was determined to come to her own conclusions.
But let’s not forget that even Diana said everyone was nice to her but everything changed once she was engaged and she became part of the system. Then it was sink or swim, adapt or die. And stiff upper lip baby, Windsors can’t be seen having mental health problems!
I need to go back and listen but from Harry the gist I got is that there is a devil’s pact between the British press and the royal family. They need to stay popular in order to continue to fool the public that their VERY expensive tax payer funded existence is justified because if people start questioning their worth it could all go away. And the British press make a ton of money covering the royals. It’s an industry/economy unto itself.
And he didn’t directly say it but it’s OBVIOUS that many family members have a whole cemetery of skeletons in their closets that they don’t want the press exposing.
And the players with the most to lose if exposed are Charles and William because they are the heirs. They knew if they pushed back to protect Harry and Meghan, their skeletons would be exposed or they would get negative stories. And based on previous anvil sized hints given by various RRs, William CLEARLY cut a deal with them to throw Meghan to the wolves in exchange for keeping his own dirty little secrets hidden.
As far as the Queen goes. I think Harry believes if she was just acting as a loving grandmother, she would have happily given Harry everything he wanted. But her advisers told her she couldn’t because if she did it would put the institution in danger because they had so much to hide. They probably used Andrew to twist her arm on that one.
So, like she has done her whole life, she has put The Crown above all else.
This is why Harry says they are trapped, but it’s a trap largely of their own making.
I really feel like this all stems from them not being very good people. If they were decent people, they wouldn’t have all these big things to hide from the press and the public and they could be much more free. They could deny bad stories every time and eventually people might stop believing the bad stories. If they were just out there doing good things, the “regular” press would report on those and they would look good. It’s not that complicated if you are just decent people and work at the job you’ve been given. All the infighting and pushing others to the tabloids stems from having things to hide.
I kind of agree and disagree with you. Meghan and Harry were good people who worked and had nothing to hide and they were eviscerated and had stories made up out of nothing about them because they refused to have tea and talk with the press (bc the press was treating her horribly from the beginning). So even if all the RF members were squeaky clean, and they’re not leaking about each, what’s to stop the press from making stuff up? And then if the press relationship is all attack pieces followed by palace denials… that’s not the good press they need to survive. They need embiggening bc having a monarchy living off tax payer money in the 21st century is ridiculous. They have to constantly be sold and resold to the public. The public needs constant reminders of why they should care and why these people are good and supposedly necessary, and why they’re better than everyone else, and why they need to be revered almost as religious symbols.
And if the family refuses to work with the press, and the press is just getting denials back every time they write a made up story, what’s to stop the press from pivoting to “why do we even need a monarchy?” stories? I bet they could make a lot of money by exposing how much money the family actually costs and what they do with it, and asking why they need all these palaces, and why do they get to hold onto and enjoy all the art, and stories about how they don’t even really raise money for of affect their charities positively in any way. A big fight about getting rid of the monarchy and the long and complicated process that would entail would give them years worth of content. The dismantling of the BRF, or even just the commonwealth, would be a HUGE story the world over.
I think it is impossible for most people to understand what life is really like in the royal household. That is why so many were riveted to The Crown and the utter dysfunction it exposes.
And, in Meghan’s case, Harry probably assumed she would be treated kind of like he was. Neither had any idea how much they would be betrayed and hung out to dry.
One of the last public statements Meghan made before she left last March was, I was willing to do anything to make this work. That’s her MO, she’s totally willing to put in the work to achieve an important goal, and it’s worked for her up until now.
She admitted how very naive she was. But recall the engagement interview, where they talked about how welcoming the family was, including multiple get togethers with Charles and Camilla. Harry said last night he was surprised they were as welcoming as they were. So he and Meghan must have been hopeful. Diana’s experience is 30 years in the rearview mirror. Prior to the wedding, there were multiple articles about modernizing the monarchy, and any right thinking organization would have recognized what’s been said here many times, Meghan joining the family would have – and in fact, did – bring a whole new level of global interest to a stuffy, out of date institution.
Of course we know now, any veneer of acceptance was smoke and mirrors. Meghan must have been shocked at how much the Firm were controlling what she did, telling her not to have lunch with friends, saying she’d do better if she were 50% of herself, and maybe that was naive. But even if she understood in detail how Diana was treated, would anyone really anticipate the RF was capable of something as egregious as changing an entire portion of monarchy operation, solely to deny a title, and thus security protection, to one single baby because of the color of his skin? Even Harry seemed shocked at that. Self interest alone should have prevented the family going down that road. Just denying her the ability to get help for her deteriorating mental state, which certainly could have been done privately, is beyond what I would have imagined.
IMO, the lesson the royals learned from Diana was to be sure to pile on soon and early the moment an outsider looked like they were drawing attention away from higher ranking family members. The irony is, smart people would have realized how the attention could be handled to benefit everyone (a rising tide lifts all boats). No matter how the media and family try to spin the post interview narrative, the world has the unique opportunity to hear for themselves what Harry and Meghan have to say. This is the second time the RF have done exactly the same thing. The monarchy won’t be destroyed by the interview, but they will go back to looking as stuffy and outdated as they really are, and absolutely will be diminished, especially on the world stage.
I find how underprepared Meghan was very frustrating and Hunt calls it out as a negligence on Harry’s part, which I agree with somewhat. For someone considered a planner, this seems weird to me, or that they didn’t reach out to someone within that world. On the other hand, it could have been used against them as her being calculating and trying to get ahead of herself. However once+it was seen she was serious, there should definitely been attempts to get her prepared, and hiring some flunky in the household because he’s black does not cut it. I hate when they throw out that she know what she signed up for, they are so hostile to everything she did. I think she expected a more professional organization with more accountability . There didn’t seem to be much formal etiquette and protocol, but a lot of unwritten rules, that is used to separate who’s in and who’s out of this system. Also, how she mentioned she thought the formality was just for public, not that they did that in private life- seriously archaic. As for the monarchy, this whole saga shows the dysfunction of the institution. Saw on Twitter that some MP was listing ways it could be reforms, such as making those who work salaried workers ,a union for the royal household and workers and more accountability, with more royals having independent lives. That is an issue for the UK to work out, not Harry and Meghan.
Thx @L4frimaire; I think some takeaways for H&M and anyone in the next generation of the rf
1) I think Harry does share some of the blame here………… not victim blaming but what was H ) thinking? bringing someone like Meghan into that fold? did he expect them not to see her “color” right away?
2) why didn’t tell her about curtseying to the queen even in Private? he would of all people know that. He asked her whether she knew how to curtsey just when they are about to meet the queen; it is an archaic process but H is responsible here
3) Meghan’s positivity turned into blindness here.
4) now that I think about it perhaps H should have delayed the wedding by a few months to let Meghan learn more of those archaic rules or Meghan should have asked; was he afraid she would run away after seeing the ugliness of all of it?
I think they both fell so hard for each other that they ignored all the warning signs
“I think she expected a more professional organization with more accountability”
Yes, wouldn’t anyone expect that???
Especially at the place that calls itself The Firm.
I’m sure that Harry was never one for details so a lot of the stuff he just knew he didn’t expect to have to tell Meghan. But a lot of it was because there are way more unspoken rules for women in that family, especially the married ins, than Harry would ever know. And they were also changing the rules on them in some cases.
“and return the focus to THEIR definition of what duty should look like”
Burn. Oh I am enjoying this.
Did the monarchy truly think they could keep dunking on H&M indefinitely and never get any push back?
Even with all the revelations they still went high when they could’ve gone low.
I will tell you a story of when I met Meghan. She was watching a carnival-esque “game” wherein a punter has to hold onto a metal bar and hang for 100 seconds, winning €100 if the accomplished the seeming feat of simple strength. We were watching from a window, directly across and above the game, and there was a huge crowd of onlookers gathered around at street level, watching strong man after strong man fall of the bar. Meghan said to her friends that she felt like she could win the game. I, however, had seen this game night after night for years, and knew full well that there was no way she would win, because, of COURSE, It was rigged. I explained the mechanism of the rigging (simple, as these things usually are, but not something you would be able to spot from Street level). She and her friends listened to my explanation, watched the next dude slide of the metal bar, saw how the trick worked and how it was physically impossible to win the game… And she said she *still* thought she could win. She didn’t try (that I saw), but she was convinced she could somehow win, even with all of PHYSICS against her.
I absolutely believe she went into the royal family the same way– With such a wildly optimistic belief that she could overcome virtually any obstacles put in her way. I think she was so firm in her belief in herself and her abilities that nothing anyone said to her would have deterred her. And I don’t think this is a bad quality! I wish I had a fraction of her confidence and sense of self-worth! But I do believe she was naive about what she was facing.
This story illustrates really well what many of us have thought about her personality. That she’s so overwhelming positive she sometimes can’t see the reality of the situation. Or that she can’t understand just how bad/hard something is because she really believes she can accomplish anything. We can see now how that attitude can be a detriment (especially in her particular situation) but I still wish I had more of that in me!
I wonder – maybe Harry doesn’t blame QE all that much because she’s a figure head that doesn’t really decide much now? She’s a sheltered 95yo. He used to be on the inside, so he knows who really holds the power.
I’m not saying she doesn’t share the blame, all members of the firm do to varying degree
So we’re stuck with this family of racists & pedophiles in their position of wealth and privilege? Ugh, where can we buy a guillotine?
I know someone who is close friends with Meghan and the way she describes her is someone who gives people the benefit of the doubt, I believe she was naive but from a place of kindness-she wanted to know people beyond their celebrity.
who wouldn’t give these people the benefit of the doubt? It’s the muthafuckin royal family and they are being kind and friendly? I said upthread that Americans (I speak as one) tend not to be very good at reading subtlety. Even if someone said something off-color, the likely response when you’re loved up is to give people the benefit of the doubt. And of course Meghan was dazzled by the role she would have. Who wouldn’t be? Who would think that they wouldn’t accept a woman like her? She was successful, smart, comfortable in the role in a way that a lot of other women wouldn’t have been. She probably saw herself as perfect for it, and she was ready, in the American way, to roll up her sleeves and work hard. Hard work, after all, is how we judge others, and how we expect others to judge us as Americans. What American woman would have thought differently? If someone, Anne or Camilla , say, tried to warn her otherwise, would she have listened? Would you? I wouldn’t. I would trust the man that loves me, and I’m in my 40s! I would have thought that they were the racists, unlike the rest of the family who was so kind. I would have been immediatly suspicious of anyone who might have warned me, because it went against what I was seeing, and it would be easy to attribute other, more sinister motives to such a warning.
But Meghan wasn’t warned about any of it. And she really believed that she would be judged for her work, and for her effort.
My god. Imagine if Harry had been a cad. Imagine if he had refused to acknowledge what she was going through, out of a desire to please his family, or out of his normal conventional role as family fuckup. Think of all the men who are too spineless to stand up to their toxic mothers to protect their wives. Harry’s a prince in every measure of the word.
This is our every few decades reminder that the British Royal Family has been genetically selected for centuries to be ruthless, completely selfish, and interested only in holding onto their “institution.” Add in the inbreeding & horrible parenting, and this is exactly what everyone should expect. These are the people that Game of Thrones was based on, remember. I mean, I love British royal history FOR the murders, scandals, gossip & awful behavior, but I wouldn’t want to marry into them. Except for Harry. <3
My takeaways:
William was absolutely the one who first brought up the darkness of the Sussex baby skin. Charles was absolutely the one behind the “we don’t have money for Meg’s security when she joins the family” and for refusing to give Archie a title and security. This is 100% in his power as he really is the power behind the throne now. We now know that 95 year old Elizabeth pretty much does as she is told and maybe always has. Charles and Wiliam are likely both behind the Queen being suddenly “busy” when the Sussexes returned from Canada. For whatever reason Meg has sympathy for Kate and the life in which she is trapped. How interesting that Fergie was ready to be helpful to Meg at the lunch, rather than to sabotage her like everyone else. What happened to all those “princess lessons” that Kate, Sophie, and even Diana reportedly received? They clearly wanted Meg to fail from the beginning.
Agree on all points.
I wonder if the Queen was the one offering/setting up Princess lessons for Diana, Sophie, and Kate, because that would’ve been before she stepped back more (and more and more) and before Charles started to take over. Like as a woman in the royal family who had faced extra scrutiny as a very young woman ascending a throne she wasn’t really ready for in front of the whole world, the Queen would’ve had first hand experience at how difficult it can be to master and perfectly perform all these unspoken rules and protocol, many of which seem to solely apply to the women in the family: how to cross legs, when to wear gloves and hats, nail polish, skirt length, colors you can wear, hair up or down, can you take your coat off in public, what to do when pregnant. And now that it’s Charles who was in charge when Megan came in, he didn’t even think about it? Like he just expected her to “pick it up” quickly on her own through observation or just somehow “know it” all already because he assumes all women “just know” since all the women in his family, and social circle, and who work at the palace that he’s dealt with on a regular day to day basis his entire life are either obsessed with or actually are British aristos born and raised around court and in high society where they’re trained in this kind of thing from birth and it all sort of seeps in through osmosis from living in that society surrounded by and raised by women who model the proper protocol in their everyday lives. Does he even know that working and middle class women who actually grow up in Britain and have lived there all their live don’t even “just know” all this upper class, royal family protocol automatically? Does he think that all women know it but the “lower classes” are either too poor to afford the stockings and tiny hats or are purposely rejecting the protocol in favor of more “modern” social manners because it’s just easier or they’re too lazy or don’t care about being “vulgar”? So of course he wouldn’t think about Meghan needing to be taught these things. She should either know them or be so grateful that she’s allowed to join the hallowed institution that she should’ve studied them on her own.
I think this interview will cause some great damage to the relationship with the Commonwealth. The comments on Archie’s skin colour are so shocking, I can imagine more countries will leave after this. Following Barbados.
What I don’t understand is if the queen doesn’t have the power to even have her grandson to dinner then who is controlling her? Who is the too courier behind all of this? Harry made it sound like Liz doesn’t control her own fate. If someone else is controlling everything then who is that person and what is the point of the queen? Just get rid of them all. They are an institution that has outlived its purpose and there is no redemption. Maybe put all the money that goes into their security costs towards charity instead or bias training for the UK tabloids
The queen absolutely is as cruel and conniving and petty as all the rest of them. And it’s reflected in the horrible people she likes to have around her, like Ms. Fisticuffs Angela Kelly. She isn’t some kind forgetful old granny. No. Every cruel and conniving move comes from her. She led that family for seventy or whatever years. She molded them in her image. She chose Philip, with all his Nazi connections (there’s video of her making the Nazi salute as a girl and everyone bent over backward to explain it away — the Nazi salute! It was a “joke”!). She was raised by loving, doting parents, and she was an absent, distant mother to Charles. She created the family dysfunctionality that led to her own granddaughter in law being refused help for suicidal ideation.
Not. Some. Kind. Old. Granny.
I wish I could believe the monarchy has been damaged. It absolutely should be rocked and I want to see it crash and burn in my lifetime but I don’t think things will change.
Since Meghan I’ve realised just how racist people are. People I work with and considered decent. They hate her but they don’t know why. They’ve been brainwashed by the press because of their unconscious bias.
The BP is vile and is still printing absolute crap. I just hope Harry and Meghan never stop using their voice now that they’re allowed to have one.
Things may not change for the monarchy in the U.K. quickly, but the monarchists are for the most part, old people. What happens when they die out? And how can they justify spending millions in the royal family when Brexit pain will likely get worse?
Where the monarchy is damaged, maybe irreparably, is in their global brand. These are people who have no empathy, and can’t read rooms. I think they will be keeping a low profile globally for a long time to come.
Think back to Camilla having weekly conversations, before the wedding, with meghan’s father.
I truly believe Charles, and willie, both and others were involved in the skin color conversations. Of course the queen knew about it. Noone can look that mean at a wedding, and wish the bride and groom well
To much throwing rocks, and hiding of hands, in that family.
Harry said they iwere nvited to visit the queen, not sure if it was Balmoral or not, the week before they were to go, a call was received canceling it.
I don’t think it’s naivete. I think Meghan is someone who simply tries to see the best in the situation. No matter what it is, no matter how shitty it is, she tries to salvage what she can that’s good, and keep moving forward. I imagine that’s how she navigated the relationship with her father for all those years–just tried to salvage what she could, looked at him in the best light possible, and kept her distance so that she could at least have a relationship with him, rather than nothing at all, bc something is better than nothing.
I don’t know what this holds for the future of the monarchy. Somehow, I doubt it’ll impact them much. I doubt we’ll see any real changes even after QEII dies. I think Charles will be completely uneventful. But William. I can see some of the anti-monarchy sentiment gaining traction by that point. And honestly. My money is still on the idea that England will start making a serious effort to carve out an actual, written constitution, by the time William becomes king, either because Scotland will have seceded, and Ireland will have reunited, or it will come to a breaking point with all four countries, to the extent that they will have to start putting clear definitions of which institution does what in fucking writing. Bc whatever system they have going on right now, isn’t working, and it’s not just the monarchy that’s a problem, it’s a lot of other shit, as we saw with Brexit.
Either way, removing the monarchy is not going to be easy. It’s going to be like pulling teeth. I’m not saying that to discourage it from happening, but I’m just saying, it won’t happen overnight. I’m prepared for it all to be a bigger shitshow than Brexit, and, it will actually have an enormous impact on commonwealth countries like Canada, bc not only will it force the British people to confront the reality of their own history, it will force Canadians to contend with ours in ways we’re not quite ready for just yet. So. Let’s see. But of course, in classic British fashion, most people in Britain only see small r republicanism or the anti-monarchy movement through their own perspective. I’m actually fully prepared for a case where Britain abolishes the monarchy, but Canada keeps it on, purely because that’s easier than the alternative. But let’s see. Like I said, either way, it’s going to be a shit show.