Earlier this year, two British “aristocrats” Sabine Getty and Lady Alice Manners decided to chime in on the situation with the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. They thought that Meghan needed to “sit down” and “stop disrespecting the Queen.” They got the attention they were so desperately craving. I was reminded of them when I came across this story, which of course is trending on the Daily Mail. Apparently, Britain’s Channel 5 has done yet another documentary about the Sussexes. This one is called Meghan at 40: The Climb to Power, like the fifth person on the Suits call sheet is the new Hitler or something. “The climb to power,” how gauche! She was so desperate to climb to power, she quit her job, gave up her blog and her Instagram and dedicated herself to royal work. But aristocrats still think Meghan was just too power-mad for the Windsors, of course.
Meghan Markle struggled to ‘switch off’ the American dream’ and understand her ‘duty was to the Queen’, a US-born viscountess has claimed in a new documentary. Meghan at 40: The Climb to Power, which airs on Channel 5 on Saturday ahead of The Duchess of Sussex’ landmark birthday on 4th August, explores the former Suits star’s life from being born in California to her relationship with The Firm today.
Speaking in the programme Julie Montagu, who was born in Illinois but moved to the UK 16 years ago when she married Luke Timothy Charles Montagu, Viscount Hinchingbrooke, the son of the 11th Earl of Sandwich, explained that Meghan’s struggle with her in-laws came from an inability to ‘let go’ of American ideals.
‘You can’t really be anything you want to be or do anything you want to do or say anything you want to say,’ Viscountess Hinchingbrooke explained. ‘Your duty is to the Queen and that’s very difficult for someone like Meghan. To switch off that American dream off and accept “now you have to do what we say” is difficult. It’s difficult to have love and duty work simultaneously and together and that’s what Harry and Meghan wanted in [negotiations] with the Queen, this synergy, that they can make work, but the Queen said no.’
The documentary also claims that Meghan and Harry gave their ‘truth bomb’ interview to Oprah Winfrey because they ‘expected an apology’ from the royal family.
‘I think she felt it was an opportunity for her to not only share it with the world, but she hoped the royal family was actually listening,’ Lady Julie added. ‘It’s difficult to pinpoint why she did it, but I think it’s clear they were angry’.
Royal author Tom Quinn also told the documentary: ‘I think they were hoping for an apology, they were hoping they would phone and say, “We’re sorry we push you too far, we should have sat you down and spoke about your mental health issue”. I think she was horrified that the reaction was so negative from the family and they didn’t respond in the way she wanted. Meghan thought when she entered the royal family she could shake things up and they would love it, they would do things Meghan’s way. And when that didn’t happen, and when she came up against what she sees as the forces of reaction, it made us so upset. That that interview was her way to get revenge’.
“Meghan thought when she entered the royal family she could shake things up and they would love it, they would do things Meghan’s way.” It’s more likely that Meghan continuously bumped up against the utter clownshow of the British monarchy and she was like “this could be done better, let me help” or “wouldn’t it be easier to do it this way?” And they hated her for her Americanness, for exposing their laziness, incompetence and clownery, and it slowly began to dawn on Meghan that they weren’t actually trying to help her whatsoever. As for what this dumb viscountess says…all of these people are really hellbent ignoring that the whole f–king reason the Sussexes left is because they were being abused and actively shoved out of the country. They didn’t leave because Meghan was simply too American to understand how to devote herself to serving Queen and country. It was because she was being actively driven to suicidal ideation.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid and WENN.
The constant anti-American bigotry from the British aristocracy and media really isn’t cute.
Yeah it’s ridiculous.
If you name ONE person of color that is telling you how Meghan did not fit in because she was TOO American, I have a bridge to sell you. Notice, they all white folks telling a WOC what is and isn’t racism, go figure.
AMEN.
@BabsORIG not disrupting the racism angle, but that doesn’t mean it negates the anti American bigotry. Have you lived in the UK ever? As a former American/EU citizen who lived in the UK, I can 100% confirm that looking down on Americans is a favorite pastime of British aristocracy.
Ugh – I studied and worked in Britain, at archives belonging to aristos (albeit not high profile ones), and never experienced any type of that kind of stigma that would explain what happened to Meghan.
“The racism angle” is the main angle.
@Maria you had a very different experience from me! Out of curiosity – are you American only? They generally don’t say it to an American’s face. I was in a bit of a unique situation because I was also European, so they felt like they could say it to me and then add “but you’re ok because you’re not a real American.”
My experience is that anti-Americanism used to be rampant across Europe, and then it got a bit better in mainland Europe but stayed in the UK.
@ugh actually looking down on anyone, including those from the Colonies – oh I mean the Commonwealth.
Thank you @Maria for all you posts both above and this mine post, you put it much better than I could have. Again, I go back to what I stated in the first post. POC recognize that even though Meghan is American and there was some anti American sentiment, reducing Meghan’s experience to “every married in was subjected to the same treatment, not just Meghan” is just another way of rationalizing racism.
@BabsORIG: right?? And this woman: she’s American, so how stupid is she that she can’t figure out she’s telling the gutter tabloids in Britain that an American has no clue about the Royal Family and how it works. Ha! WHAT an idiot!!
I *am* only American. They may have made comments behind my back, obviously I don’t know – but it never reflected itself in the way I was treated both informally and professionally, so frankly even if they did say things among themselves I don’t think it counts because it never impacted me negatively in the way they treated me.
Given Brexit, I’m doubtful about the claim that continental Europeans receive any type of benefit of the doubt there, but you know your own business best I guess.
As far as the rest of Europe, I’ve never experienced anti-Americanism. Maybe the sentiment was shown towards politics etc but never towards me. But this will depend on how you behave in a country to some extent of course (although that’s not the only factor).
@Maria You make absolute sense. This anti-American or anti any other country for that matter, exists in just about every country around the world but it is usually political and not about individuals. There will always be stereotypes too but anyone with half a brain cell should know people are individual.
While anti-Americanism from the establishment played a part in Meghans issues, it’s more to do with their views on a British establishment taking in an American than a general hatred of Americans.
There is actually no way a non-UK person could feel the deference for the Crown that a UK citizen feels. Chelsey Davy could not do it, Meghan could not do it and I could not do it.
For members of the BRF and devout monarchist, The Crown and Sovereign are a religion and a religion requires worship.
Davy’s family was based in Zimbabwe but I am sure there is some British heritage there. She went to the posh schools that allowed her to meet Harry and London is her second home. She was a little unconventional but I am sure she had that same reverence for the royals.
Harry never asked her to marry him, so the idea that she couldn’t handle royal life and turned him down is a myth.
Oh c’mon, stop with this. Meghan married Harry with every intention of working for the crown. She, an American, curtseyed to TQ and to even Prince Charles. She, an educated independent woman who had worked and supported herself all her life, was willing to give it all up and devote her life to serving these miserable bunch of colonialist racists, how you gonna tell me “Julie is right no American can feel deference to the crown”, are you even serious? So what, you too saying Meghan went in with a hidden agenda but had no intentions of staying in and therefore just left because she couldn’t fit in? This is just ridiculous.
Of course she’s too American. It took her 5 minutes to realize that the RF was a bunch of dummies. That the RF and the British Press create this illusion for the British People how by birth one family is superior to the rest of them. I can only imagine what was going on in Meghan’s mind as she learned more and more about the CON. I bet it went something like this…..WTF is this BS!
I thought Chelsy was a Brit aristo in Zimbabwe? Isn’t that the history of rich white people in Zimbabwe? I thought her issue as with many aristos was not wanting the restrictions of a royal life, not that she was an outsider to that world.
Meghan wanted to work for the royals. She was super excited excited about it all, that was evident from the engagement interview. Remember, her and Harry wanted to work for the royals for FREE. They didn’t want to leave at all, they were basically left with no choice. It was leave or watch their relationship be destroyed.
There’s deference to a parent, or to an employer; and then there’s deference to your religion or your God. They are entirely different. BTB is saying that, sure, an American could feel the former but, vis-a-vis the monarch, it would be difficult at best to be converted to the latter. I agree.
Not all aristos feel a religious reverence toward the monarch. They’ll back the royal bottom line for their own position or because they’re xenophobic/racist but the idea they all believe in it personally is not true.
And as for people in the UK there are plenty that slag off the Queen. But they’re still hateful and racist so they’ll back her before Meghan.
Now, plenty do feel a reverence about it. But that’s not the main part of this story.
@BabsORIG – No! What I am say thing is that I believe that Meghan figured out rather quickly that if she did not turn into a version of Sophie Wessex that the courtiers would never be happy and no matter what she did the courtiers would never leave her alone.
Meghann was too “American” to ever allow herself to be turned into anything less than her true self let alone completely changing herself to serve the BRF.
@Bettyrose – Chelsy was a Brit who grew up in Zimbabwe and South Africa. I do not think she is considered an aristo more like new real money.
IMAO, Chelsy, like Meghan, could do and achieve anything she wanted. However, I think Chelsy got a good look at how the BRF Firm really operates and started looking for the door.
IIRC, there were starts of a smear campaign against Chelsy claiming she was a true “party” girl and her father had shady political-business connections..
I think part of the problem (aside from the rampant racism inherent in a hereditary class system that shuns outsiders and perpetuates the cycle of racism) is that Meghan heard so often how much *work* being a royal is. So as someone who’s been working hard all her life, she went in prepared to do the work. How confusing it must’ve been to discover no one in the BRF actually works. They all just constantly talk about how much they work and how difficult it is being a working royal. As an outsider, you must think there’s obviously something you’re not getting because all around you are people who don’t f***ing do anything, but they’re constantly whining about work. That’s some hardcore gaslighting.
What Chelsy went through is NOTHING compared to what Meghan went through. The papers covered her as a party girl from the start and mentioned her father but that was it.
And Chelsy by her own admission left the legal world because it was too much work for her. Fine if she wants to do that, but she was no Meghan so the question of her being turned off by the Firm does not apply. And Harry never proposed to her. And even in 2020 she was still trading off her past relationship with Harry in Tatler (the article was even called “The One Who Got Away”).
Talking about a smear campaign about Chelsy is extremely similar to the people who point to Kate being called Waity Katy and say “See? They’re mean to everyone, not just Meghan!!” That is false.
My experience is only royalists have a reverence for the Crown. We wouldn’t have had things like the Windsors or Spitting image if they were so revered. Elizabeth is defied now because she’s on the money, people have lived with her as queen most of their lives so she has been that stable figure, her being self contained means people can project loads on her and she’s now elderly& nobody wants to speak badly about someone who reminds them of their grandma.
what is the example of Meghan not conforming due to being an American? She curtsied, wore tights, seemed to have a very neutral wardrobe probably as part of not ‘dimming her light’, was baptised into the Church of England etc. The example used seems to be about ‘west coast energy’& sending emails early. But that complaint only seems to have come out of KP & not been an issue in BP. We always hear that Anne & Charles are such hard workers with Harry talking about Charles falling asleep at his desk over his papers. So sounds like decent work ethic isn’t just an American phenomenon in the palace.
Also her approach to charity, doing some direct fundraising & doing projects was similar to things Philip, Charles, Camilla & Harry etc have done before with no issue so wasn’t unique to her. so my sense is she wanted to just get on with the job & if she was protected & insiders didn’t have it out for her/weren’t jealousy& other issues she would still be a working royal.
I do find that many brits look down on Americans & the Markles’ trashy behaviour wouldn’t have helped Meghan. But racism is the major factor. It’s the main tool the media has weaponised & is why the media has been able to dehumanise her to such extent. Eg even with the original story-how many would have been sympathetic to Kate crying at a wedding rehearsal when the bride’s father was having a meltdown if the bride was white? Most people would have been like why is Kate making this about herself instead of being supportive. but because of Meghan being mixed race no empathy was reserved for her& the media were able to deploy the angry black woman trope to make Kate the victim.
Tom Quinn had a bio that said palace courtiers looked down on Meghan because of her race& she knew it. So it’s convenient to now claim she left because she didn’t get her way. One of the first articles about Meghan by the prime minister’s sister was about her genes thickening the Windsor gene pool. Archie & Lili were racially abused by media personalities before they were a week old. Harry was threatened with death for being a ‘race traitor’. The press applied double standards to Meghan against the other royals & they knew they could rile up the public about spending because of resentment when POC have nice things. These things wouldn’t have happened if Harry had married a white American actress from Suits.
As for the Oprah interview I think they wanted to correct false narratives about why they left& said the firm couldn’t expect them to remain quiet if they were perpetuating falsehoods against them. I suspect if the firm had left them alone & just wished them well, any exit interview might have just focused on the press’ role.
@Maria said:
“Davy’s family was based in Zimbabwe but I am sure there is some British heritage there. She went to the posh schools that allowed her to meet Harry and London is her second home. She was a little unconventional but I am sure she had that same reverence for the royals. Harry never asked her to marry him, so the idea that she couldn’t handle royal life and turned him down is a myth.”
Chelsy’s father is from So Africa and her mother (a former model and beauty pageant Queen), was born in Rhodesia, now known as Zimbabwe. Chelsy’s father built his fortune in Zimbabwe — he’s a wealthy landowner there. Like other posters have pointed out, Chelsy’s family are not aristo, they are considered ‘new money.’ Both her parents apparently have a British heritage.
Chelsy went to posh schools in England as a youngster, but she attended University in Capetown, SA. It was during her time at the Univ. of Capetown that Chelsy and Harry met through mutual friends. They did not meet at posh schools in London.
When C&H met, it was at the period when young Harry was making trips to Botswana, and fatefully was introduced to Prince Seeiso. After learning about the plight of orphaned children with HIV, in Lesotho, Harry began the process of growing up and turning his life around. He had a youthful, immature love with Chelsy. There was a lot of volatility in their on-and-off relationship over 6 to 7 years, but it WAS the most serious intimate relationship in Harry’s life, until he set eyes on Meghan, and “the stars aligned.”
As others have pointed out, I doubt Chelsy has any strong fealty or reverence for royalty. She was put off by the intrusive paps and by constant stories in the tabloids. She has an independent spirit, so she was definitely turned off when she got a full-on taste of what royal life would be like, especially sensing ‘mean girl’ Kate’s interfering, uppity vibes.
We don’t know if Harry formally proposed to Chelsy, but I would bet they did talk about it. Two young people are not in a relationship for that length of time without ever, at the least, contemplating the possibility of marrying each other.
Not only in Britain is all across. I was vacationing in the Caribbean Island of DR and came across a german lady who for nothing spat at me saying that I was not Spanish enough (from PR) because I got “infected by american ways” (we are US citizens by birth). The hatred and anger I saw on her face was really scary, it opened my eyes that we do live in a bubble and do not realize that a lot of people around the world is really against us.
I’m really sorry that happened to you. Just my take on it but I think a lot of the world takes issue with America for feeling as though they’re trying to impose their culture and values on everyone else and they do view Americans as living in a bubble and not having awareness of what others think of them. Saying that, it goes back to it being political rather than about individuals but unfortunately, like in your experience some people don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s not the individuals fault.
Responding to first posts in this thread: Yep, and this is coming from a white American who became a British ‘grifter’ Viscountess. Julie Montagu and her hubby gotta find a way to pull down some consistent bucks for the upkeep on their ancient mansion and upperclass Brit lifestyle.
It’s no coincidence that ever since Meghan met & married Harry, everyone (oceanliners full of anglers and grifters) have latched onto capitalizing off of the Sussex golden couple for selfish reasons. Montagu’s profile and ratings for her TV show about English country houses got a huge boost when awesome Meghan arrived on Salty Isle.
Now, all these exploiters and snooty aristos got their noses out-of-joint along with the rota, the royals, and U.K. media. The fakakta thing about this is how they all blame Meghan (their moneybags) for the racism and abuse they heap on her, which caused Harry ‘Ginger Avenger’ to take his family up outta that bitter, toxic place.
Julie, you mean failed Bravo reality tv personality, Julie?
She was the weakest link on Ladies of London. Sis, be quiet and go eat some sprouts
Y’all her Instagram handle is AMERICAN VISCOUNTESS…and she dresses like a preschool art teacher who doesn’t love herself.
Vicountess Hinchingbrooke sounds like the villain in a Disney princess movie.
@Nomegusta – Many female British aristos dress as Julie Montagu dresses.
Julie Montagu did not really say anything negative about Meghan. How may Americans want to give up their American “ways” for British “ways”? I do not believe that there are many.
I have seen many of Viscountess Hinchinbrook’s shows on TV and seen her as a guest on British news shows. She is not in anyway as bad as she is being made out to be on pro-Sussex social media. Her biography is quite interesting.
@BTB, I have no idea what you going on and on about how “Julie said nothing negative about Meghan” are you even serious? Please understand this: that any time a white woman (or any white person) rationalizes racism is already negative sorry to tell you this. I don’t care how interesting this Julie biography is, she is white and has no right to tell us persons of color what is and what isn’t racism. Meghan and her child were abused and subjected to such racism and torture to the point of Meghan being suicidal. And this woman just reduces Meghan’s experiences to just not being able to fit in? How about whenever she gets asked to comment on Meghan just saying “you know what? I have never lived her life, I have never been subjected to any of her experiences and as a white person I really have no idea what she went through and I therefore can’t comment”? Please stop with that madness.
@baytampabay
At some points she did sound understanding. And then she immediately nullified it by saying the same thing the test of the British press is saying which is essentially, she wanted it all her way and it didn’t happen and now she is soggy.
Instead of acknowledging what they did to her. GAS lighting. So yes. What she said was bad and dismissive
No, she was pretty negative here. The implication is that Meghan wasn’t ready to work with them in any way and that she wasn’t interested in cooperating with their dynamics – the idea that Meghan was a diva. Which is nonsense, she was happy to comply with their dynamics, until their dynamics showed they were invested in harming her.
Yeah @BayTampaBay, I’m going to have to agree with the others. I don’t think Julie said anything inherently mean, BUT if she, as an American, can’t admit that this situation must be viewed with a racial lens, she deserves a dragging.
Meghan literally arrived, well-spoken with fully formed ideas with charitable objectives, well-dressed, beautiful, smart, charismatic, and WILLING TO LEARN. You literally could not have asked for a more perfect candidate for the job.
But somehow she was difficult and mean. Her kid deserves to be called a monkey, and headlines like Straight Outta Compton are acceptable. Sure, reality TV aristo Julie. I’m sure Julie is above all of this.
@BayTampaBay She was dismissive and mischaracterized Duchess Meghan’s work ethic.
She was wrong and there are no two ways about it.
@Lemons – You comment above is exactly the point I am trying to make’. “The Royal Courtiers, William and probably Charles did not want a “well-spoken with fully formed ideas with charitable objectives, well-dressed, beautiful, smart, charismatic, and WILLING TO LEAR perfect candidate for the job”. The courtiers wanted someone who was another Sophie Wessex or someone they turn into another Sophie Wessex. Megan being an American and all that entails could not and/or would not “change” herself to fit in and please the Royal courtiers, William and probably Charles for the sole benefit of the Monarchy. The BRF Firm was not going to make any allowances for Meghan to fit in no matter what talents she brought to the table. I do not blame Meghan for not wanting to change. There is no way that everyone (Sussexes and all others) was going to work together or be “willing” to work together for the best for all concerned. Because the only concern any of these people have is what is best for the person who is Monarch (QEII or Charles III) at any given time and all has to be sacrificed to that person (QEII or Charles III). Americans do not look at the world this way. I would refused to change too. I would have left too.
This chick cried her eyes out for a whole episode of Ladies of London because Caroline Stanbury made an off-hand comment that Montagu couldn’t do a headstand. Seriously. An entire episode of her crying and then diagnosing herself as a hyper-sensitive person just because she was at the receiving end a sarcastic quip. Viscountess Hinchingbrooke would have been back in suburban Chicago so fast if she had to endure 1/32 of the vitriol Meghan had hurled at her.
@BTB – I’m going to be late to the party with my opinion. Julie Montagu might think she’s being sympathetic, but she’s starting out with a fallacy. Despite the press articles and “expert” opinions, there’s no evidence that Meghan didn’t understand what duty to the Queen means, or that she rebelled against accommodating to the rules of the RF, or that she insisted on doing things her own “American” way. The trips she made on behalf of the Queen and the projects she did to support her patronages were all successful and she had begun steps toward UK citizenship. Becoming like Sophie was never an issue because they are different people, but Meghan would have continued to be a supportive member of the royal family for the rest of her life if the RF and the press had allowed it.
As for whether the RF has a bias against Americans, through all this the worst they could claim is that Meghan is a workaholic. If sending emails at 5:30am is strictly an American trait, then that’s news to me. The other claim of Meghan making Kate cry also has nothing to do with being American. So, given that there’s been no evidence that being American was a problem and no evidence that Meghan wasn’t fulfilling her duties, then what are we left with? What’s left is that the RF is white and Meghan is not.
@Harper, do you believe that reality shows are real? Julie Montagu agreed to do the show while her husband was disabled from a prescription drug addiction and she had to find some way to bring in money and keep the household going.
She said the producers instructed them all to act in certain ways that had nothing to do with their real personalities, and that if they didn’t, they would be fired.
“She was then offered a position on the reality television series Ladies of London as her husband was recovering. She later said of the series, “We thought long and hard before accepting as it offered financial support for a while. But it was not fun to do. I was expected to behave in a way I wasn’t, like an It girl or socialite, when I’m not. They edit you… You have to go along with things or you get fired. But you know it was a job. I was acting.”
@L did you watch Ladies of London? Just wondering where your experience of Montagu comes from. Of course, Julie is going to explain away her negative qualities as “acting” or “the producers made her do it.” I followed her on Instagram after the series ended and her personality on the show and her social media was pretty consistent and I eventually unfollowed her as I found her annoying. These reality shows are all manufactured situations and occasions and snubs and insults and umbrage-taking but the real personalities do make their way through at the same time.
And she was a total snooze on Smithsonian Channels’ “An American Aristocrat’s Guide to Great Estates”…
Another difference of opinion: I really like Julie Montagu on Smithsonian Channels’ “An American Aristocrat’s Guide to Great Estates”. She ask and explored the questions I would. I loved the behind the scenes look at how successful self-supporting great country estates operate.
Wowww. Came back on here to say I looked up “Ladies of London” and watched the first episode. Total shite. I will be watching more.
I’m old enough to remember when France was the seat of culture…french cooking, fashion was seen as the ultimate. And British everything was the standard. It’s a different world now. Eurocentric posturing is so stale, and thank goodness inclusivity is being seen as more interesting than exclusivity.
Earl of Sandwich? Wow, If they have some Marquis of hotdog or Duke of Popcorn – pls, lemme know, he’s gotta be mine.
lol that’s because the sandwich was named after the 4th Earl of Sandwich
There’s actually a chain of restaurants in the US named after him and their sandwiches are really good. He’s the only Brit I like other than Harry.
They had a location in Downtown Disney and they have the best tomato soup I’ve ever had. It was across the street from my office and I used to get it twice a week.
John Montagu, the 4th Earl of Sandwich back in the 18th century was an inveterate gambler who couldn’t be bothered to stop and eat while playing cards and had his servants serve him meat between two slices of bread at the card table. Et voila, the eponymous sandwich was born!
@Marleigh-
I agree with you on the tomato soup. It could be the middle of summer and I’m getting soup if I’m eating at EoS. I also really like their holiday sandwich. We are staying at SSR in November and I know what I’m eating one day.
I wish I could name something delicious after myself.
I am hereby going to refer to my favorite Eggo Waffle s’mores as Marias (I didn’t invent them, but I doubt the servants of the Earl of Sandwich invented those either, lol).
They have Maria biscuits of course but it’s not the same!
You can! Tonight I’m dubbing myself Baroness von Brandy Old-Fashioned (even more fancy with the hyphen thrown in there).
This string of things is a joy. Love tomato soup so I tried to find a copycat recipe. Never had EOS’s. Someone on Disney Boards? came up with one.
Duke of Popcorn…that’s hilarious.
I’m into the Earl of Pizza and Beer.
Still desperately searching for an excuse that will stick. Cold, dysfunctional, racist family isn’t a good look and I think on some level they know that’s how they are coming across right now.
This loser was on Ladies of London on Bravo (…don’t ask how I know). She tried to start her own business for these weird health food “energy balls” and all of the “real Brits” made fun of her because she didn’t fit in and didn’t understand aristo culture. She is projecting into the heavens with every single word of this bullsh*t and she really should just sit down and STFU.
She’s also tried for a very long time to make herself happen but she been failing miserably every single attempt so…..projection of the highest order.
I watched too 😂 I don’t know who was worse, her or the hotdog American
Neither Marissa Hermer (The Hot Dog Lady) or Julie Fisher Montagu (The Yoga Foodie) are losers and neither are they bad people. Both Hermer and Montagu constantly took-up for the USA against the British Aristo snobs and British Aristo snobs wannabes constantly complaining or making snide remarks about the USA on Ladies of London.
@Sunday and BabsORIG – Julie Fisher Montague, Viscountess Hinchingbrooke is not a loser. She is a hard working American just like Meghan. Julie has been on meeting shows since the Sussex wedding commenting on the Sussexes. 90% of all she has said that I viewed was positive towards Meghan. The other 10% was about the difficulty of fitting in to the British aristocracy.
The Daily Mail lifted quotes out-of-context from Britain’s Channel 5 documentary “Meghan at 40” and repackage then how they wanted to fit their narrative of there current story.
Britain’s Channel 5 may be anti-Meghan but Julie Julie Fisher Montague, Viscountess Hinchingbrooke is not anti-Meghan. If someone believes that she is anti-Meghan then they are mistaken.
Oh please. Are you her media team?
Why is she going on British tv shows commenting on people she’s never met and a situation she’s never experienced as though she’s some kind of expert? She isn’t. She’s just another coattail riding Karen looking for attention.
@Maylie – No I am not on anyone’s media team. I am simply stating my opinions and gut feelings.
The majority of people who go on British TV shows and comment about Meghan or post on social media about Meghan have never meet Meghan or have never experienced a situation with a Royal family. I know that I have not and I doubt that any of the “Carnival of Royal Experts” have either.
What I do know is that Julie Montagu said this per The Tatler: ‘You can’t really be anything you want to be or do anything you want to do or say anything you want to say [as a royal]… Your duty is to the Queen and that’s very difficult for someone like Meghan.” I agree with this statement completely. It would be very difficult for me to sacrifice all for a duty to QEII or Charles III.
BayTampaBay, I think I understand what you’re saying. The few (and I mean very few) times I’ve listened to Julie Montagu, I think she was being as positive as she can be. I also think that she is hamstrung and cannot go too far. There’s a lot of projection about what she’s saying above, because she strikes me as a person who also would have difficulty just agreeing with everything. Her life probably isn’t all roses. Having said that, I do think that racism was the first and foremost issue between the brf and Meghan. And, just to make that family (and Country) even more enraged was the fact that she’s an American. If they couldn’t find a way to write racists comments, then there always a way to lean into her for being American or they did both. Yes, I don’t think any American would fair very well in at least England, I don’t know about the UK, but if you’re biracial? Forget about it. It’s POSSIBLE that Meghan could have overcome the prejudice against being American, but there was no way the British were EVER going to forgive her for being a POC.
“I also think that she is hamstrung and cannot go too far.”
@Saucy&Sassy – with respect to comment above you are so correct.
Thank you for your comment on understanding.
Is “..duty to the queen” having to accept the tabloid lie that you made your SIL cry? Is it expecting to be denied in-patient psychiatric treatment for suicidal ideation? Is it being told that your children won’t be given HRH status whilst courtiers falsely leak to the tabloids that you rejected titles for them? If this is duty to the queen then it is nothing more than being a victim of abuse.
I get you @BTB. I honestly think she’s doing the best she can with what she has. And I totally agree that DM cherry picked the quotes. What I’ve seen of her, she’s pleasant enough and doesn’t come across anti-Meghan at all.
I find Julie Montagu’s comments hilarious considering that she joined a reality TV show called Ladies of London and has spent the past several years trying to build her brand as the yoga bunny Viscountess. She has a show on the Smithsonian Channel called An American Aristocrat’s Guide to the Great Country Houses. And she’s actively involved in getting Americans to visit her husband’s family estate Mapperton House. And she didn’t move to London 16 years ago; she was already living in London when she met her husband. She goes on and on about how she didn’t know he was a Viscount until she saw his credit card.
The Earl and Countess of Sandwich have turned over the Mapperton Estate to Julie & Luke. All the promotion that Julie Montagu does is for one reason only: to promote the Mapperton Estate into being self-financing and self-sufficient. Julie Montagu has admitted this many time on television.
I thoroughly enjoyed her show on the Smithsonian Channel called An American Aristocrat’s Guide to the Great Country Houses. I would recommend this show to anyone who has an interest in British country houses the aristos who own them.
I will pass. Why would I want to learn about a bunch of racist. The British Aristocrat’s built their wealth from racism and the backs of the common man. This recommendation is like asking me to review the Plantations of the South and forget all the pain, suffering and death. So many people need to wake up and stop living in a pretend world that has been fed to them over the years.
If it walks and farts like a racist, then it’s a racist. I don’t know or want to know Julie , just going by what Kaiser posted above, it’s enough for me to say with my whole chest that this bitch has no right to sweep Meghan experiences as the only woman of color in that family as she was too American. Being American was never the real issue, if she were American and white, then she would have been better accepted. We are just going to say that Julie can’t relate because her ass ain’t black so no one treated her less than because she is white so that’s alright.
@BTB, I mean. I get this. I do understand that she is promoting something, and she is honest about what she is promoting. But that doesn’t change the fact that she’s operating from a huge blind spot wrt Meghan regarding racism.
Even the most stringent British critics of the media coverage on Meghan fail to fully account for the racism of the tabloid coverage on her. There really isn’t much of an examination in depth of the racism that exists in Britain, which in turn means that people there are left utterly unable to talk about it, let alone recognize it. This applies even to the commentators who are not white.
In that case, where does it leave even the most benign, well-meaning white American commentator on these matters? Particularly one who is pretty entrenched in British aristocratic society for the last however many decades? She can speak on the subject of what it’s like to be an American in such an environment, but even then, she’s speaking as an American who preferred to acquiesce to the demands made of her, rather than question the vileness with which they treat Americans who don’t, which would have been a much more poignant and relevant critique of the situation.
I agree with you that she is likely an intelligent, thoughtful human being on most matters outside of this. I don’t think that’s in dispute. But she’s being called on here to talk about something, and is, like literally every other white person in Britain who’s asked on this matter, unable to detect the elephant in the room. She might be a smart person who’s just not equipped to do so, but if that’s the case, then her comments on this are not worth much. If she’s better with talking about British country homes, she should stick to talking about that.
The only aristo I like is Emma Weymouth the Marchioness of Bath& the first black Marchioness in Britain she was asked by the tabloids to comment on Meghan & she refused to comment on something she doesn’t know even Emma was a victim of racism too but she minds her own bussines& doesn’t try to promote herself by commenting on people she hasn’t met especially she’s friends with kitty spencer so she has access to Royal gossip
@BTB….Oh sorry for the pile on. We know that you support Meghan. Maybe you’re a fan of Julie of Sandwich and wanted to show some support. Just wanted to let you know that my comments are not a personal attack on you. We are just on a different page when it comes to the British Class System. True History can sometimes be very ugly and I’m not one to try and look nostalgic about times that clearly elevated one group of people on the backs of others.
@MMadison – Do not apologize. I know when I come to CB that I am in the presence of the first-rate best. I come hear to learn and have a great debate. 99% of the time all us CBers agree on everything and it gets a little boring. It really is impossible to debate Meghan because she needs all our united support and we cannot fairly debate or discuss her because of all the lurking trolls,
Therefore, if we choose to discuss Julie Montagu in a fair and civilized manner then let’s have at it. I appreciate all the poster and comments here; especially the one’s that have a different take from me or disagree with me as from them I learn the most.
One thing I totally agree with you on is the British Class System. This is something that if you have not lived in the UK you cannot truly comprehend. I have studied the British Class System and have English friends from all three (four) of the classes in the British Class System and I still do not totally understand it.
I believe there is a Class System in the USA and a Class System in the UK but are very different animals. However, any class system is really bad for all in general.
I believe there is racism in the USA and racism in the UK but, again, the are very different animals. However, racism, no matter where is, evil and needs to be called-out and rooted-out for the good of all.
From what I remember of her story on Ladies of London, Montagu’s husband’s family bought Mapperton and have been struggling to keep it up. It’s not a property that has been in the family for hundreds of years and they could easily sell it if they can’t afford it. Julie’s husband, the Viscount, is pretty unemployable after suffering from a prescription drug addiction and having a truly horrendous recovery. He spent most of the week at Mapperton and she was in London with their four kids juggling everything. She scrambles to make money for Mapperton but IMO she has decided that she will personally be the savior of Mapperton. I guess she really wants her hubby to inherit it when the time comes.
I rolled my eyes big time seeing Montagu being quoted in regard to what Meghan did wrong regarding the Queen. IMO she has no standing to criticize Meghan as the real life Julie was portrayed as an emotional mess, highly sensitive and just a scatterbrain. Her comments about Meghan seem to be gleaned from tabloid headlines alone. As an outsider herself, I’d expect some empathy toward Meghan from Montagu.
Meghan represented the Queen beautifully and understood what was expected of her only too well. It was jealousy from the Royal family that started the smears and not Meghan misunderstanding her role or being too American.
Apparently Emily Andrews is in this show too. These people are hiding behind xenophobia instead of pointing out the real issues which were racism, neglect, mental abuse and jealousy. And Meghan explained why they did the interview to Oprah the Royal Family and the Palace continued to make their life difficult and smear them even after they left.
Yeah, I really don’t get all the excuse making. “We’re not racist. We’re just xenophobic.” Do they really think that looks better?
So you do not believe the Sussexes are angry with their family??? I would be very angry with my family if I was treated by my family as the Sussexes were treated by their family.
@BayTampaBay Yes, I’d be angry, too. Of course, I’d also be angry at the seemingly never-ending parade of people I’ve most likely never met lining up to promote themselves off of my pain and suffering.
At Charles and William? Yes. But towards everyone else? No. They wouldn’t name their daughter after a woman they were angry towards.
Of course they’re angry, but anger is not why they did the interview. Anger is why they send their legal teams and press releases out.
And seconding terra. This woman may have okay things to say but she is shilling her own show and interests piggybacking off of Meghan and Harry and their very real trauma.
Harry seemed angry during the interview. Meghan just seemed sad and disappointed.
Okay. Fine. She was too American. Is this the final reason? Is this the conclusive justification to bully, verbally and mentally abuse a woman? How wholly, indisputably and despicably horrendous and disgusting you have proven. beyond all manner of recourse. you truly are. Permanently and irrevocably evil.
Every year, the BRF and Tory government render their country less and less meaningful in world affairs. They’re too good for the rest of us, in their point of view. From a global point of view, it’s like watching a snake consume itself: disgusting, but you can’t turn away.
“She was too American. Is this the final reason?”
IMAO, There are two reasons:
1) Meghan was too American, she did not want to give-up the Americans ways and therefore could not be controlled as Kate & Sophie are controlled by the palace courtiers.
2) Racism played a large part but was not 100% of the problem. There are many xenophobic people in the UK who dislike all who are not English, White and Protestant.
#1 and #2 are two separate circles on the Venn Diagram but there is definitive overlap.
There’s one BIG circle…..racism
Misogynoir.
You are trying to downplay the major racism to support this Julie person.
@baytampabay
Wheres your evidence that Meghan “did not want to give-up the American ways”? Is it an “American way” to want to be treated with dignity and respect???
OMFG ive read all your responses to other commenters on this thread and its excuse after excuse from you on behalf of the racists pieces of sh!t in england who made M’s life a living hell. WTF do you know about being deliberately and with malice aforethought, racially abused and used by one powerful institution (the BRFirm) to another unregulated and run amok powerful institution (the british media) just so that a group of white, historically racist members of a family can continue pretending to be better than anyone else?
Rmbr what H said in the Dax Shepherd interview: “when M saw behind the curtains of what really went on in the Firm, she was like: ‘Wh..aaat?'”
Are you her agent or or Baytampa bay? Because let me just school you right now. You can paint Julie shitty comments and her explanation of a woman she has never met all you like to look pure and innocent as the fallen snow, but it still leads back to one thing. Julie is white. Meghan was treated less than human because she is black. If you aren’t black then you will never understand because you don’t know until you do. Just like Harry said being with Meghan was a real wake up call for him about racism. So until Julie gets that call, her remarks are stupid and a justification of defending her and the royals whiteness.
Is it that Meghan didn’t want to give up her American ways, or is it that British society is too insecure and jealous of its own shortcomings in comparison to American society on this one matter (the monarchy/class system), that they can’t abide by a person who isn’t subservient to an imaginary social system that places some people as superior for no reason other than as an accident of birth?
And the bigger question here is, was it wrong of her to not want to fall in line with the British system, when it is the source of so much stress and dysfunction? Why does she have to compromise with people who are clearly, objectively wrong in so many things? Does she need to agree and accept and work with a system that mandates that she, by virtue of her HUSBAND’S birth as the second son, is automatically less deserving of being treated with basic human decency and courtesy? Because THAT is the system that this viscountess is saying Meghan refused to work with, like it’s a bad it to not want to operate within the confines of a system that thoroughly dehumanizes you like that.
Plus, you’re misunderstanding the purpose of the criticism being leveled here. She’s making comments trying to help people understand the system at work here against Meghan, when the time for understanding alone is past. What’s necessary is criticism of what happened, where the parties who are to blame are clearly spelled out as such. In the absence of that is the free license for the British press and society to continue to malign Meghan. For any commentator to leave room for that is wrong, even if it comes from a lack of awareness.
“Is it that Meghan didn’t want to give up her American ways, or is it that British society is too insecure and jealous of its own shortcomings in comparison to American society on this one matter (the monarchy/class system), that they can’t abide by a person who isn’t subservient to an imaginary social system that places some people as superior for no reason other than as an accident of birth?”
@A – You very elegantly summed-up exactly what the British view as the “American Problem”. Thank you so much for putting my thoughts into clear direct words. William Shakespeare could not have been more eloquent in writing this explanation of what Julie Montagu was trying to say.
BTB I have no idea who this Sandwich lady is but I agree with your point. I think we need to add class to this as well. Racism, xenophobia, and classism. I think a white American from a regular family like Meghan would have also been treated badly.
Not to the same level, Aang.
What would have happened is what happened to Kate – snarky articles and that would be as far as it went.
A, thank you for articulating it so well. I believe you’ve captured what people are struggling with in this post. I also think that Julie has compromised herself to an extent to live where she does and trying to fit into the British aristocracy. All I can think of is Meghan with all of those things already against her AND being black. She NEVER had a chance.
No, I’m sorry, but this narrative is harmful. It implies that because Meghan didn’t fit in or try hard enough that she decided to bolt.
What happened was, she was more than willing to fit into their mold and did her best to do so. The goalposts changed. You know why? Because her ethnicity made it so she would never be good enough. If she were white, the engagements and initiatives she did would have been godsends for the royals. Trying to pretend that this is about her being too hardworking or too American is completely sidelining the pertinent issue of race. By doing that, you minimize it.
Autumn Phillips was a hardworking Canadian and married in just fine, even if she is divorced. That’s just one example.
@Maria: You’re right that even if Meghan tried to fit in, the establishment would never let her. An example is her white and British sister-in-law. Kate and her family have spent 20+ years kissing the ass of the aristocracy and where has that gotten her in terms of acceptance? A very public, bitchy, back handed Tatler article, the aristos supporting her husband’s alleged mistress over Kate herself and unable to exile said mistress. Even amongst the courtiers, I doubt there is a genuine like of Kate. At best, I think she’s tolerated by said courtiers because she’s bland, won’t rock the boat, is married to the heir and is the opposite of Meghan.
There was no way that the Uk media would ever place Harry’s spouse above William’s and we saw the seedlings of that with how Chelsy was called ugly and a drunk when she managed to get a law degree and work as a trainee solicitor, which she did quit, but it is a not a bullshit job like what Kate did part time for a few months.
With Meghan the media just took the set up and added all the racism and xenophobia because they couldn’t say Meghan was uglier than Kate, nor could they criticize her people skills or her work ethic, because she blew the other one out of the water.
@Mabs I agree with every word. Even if Meghan had been gauche, lazy, unintelligent, she would not have deserved such vicious treatment.
These people are destroying the reputation of the UK.
100%
We’ve already burned our bridges with Europe. (Hello zero points at Eurovision. 😂😭) Is it really a good idea to antagonise the Americans too? Is this the famous “soft diplomacy” that’s supposedly going to score us some amazing post-Brexit trade deals?
I’m honestly mortified by how Britain must seem to the rest of the world.
@Emily….we you can think the Murdoch’s and Piers Morgan. The RF biggest fans are the Trump racist. The more Piers teams up with FOX News the more political the RF will become in the USA. It’s not the traditional Republicans but the MAGA crowd that is beginning to form this “bond” with the RF. Chris Ship tweeted out a few months ago a demand from the RF that some MAGA vendor STOP selling the imagine of The Queen next to MAGA, Q and White Supremacy merch.
@Emily – Many in the USA KNOW that Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Frost and Michael Gove and the editors of the Daily Mail do not represent the average British person.
These with the exception of the Mail editors are their elected officials, so they indeed represent a significant majority, and there is no argument of the electoral college skewing their popular votes or US style voter suppression that you could make about the 2016 election or more recent midterms in the United States (of course, the UK government’s proposed voting ID bill will follow in those footsteps, but I digress).
Furthermore, they voted for these people and their leanings not just once but twice – once in the Brexit referendum and second with Boris Johnson’s election.
So what is being done?
(as an aside, I am not attacking Emily. I understand how you must feel. I loved England and wanted to stay and contribute to the cultural heritage industry there…until the Tories and their newly implemented immigration policies kicked me out. It’s hard to watch what’s happening)
All I want to say is that I don’t think Julie Sandwich can tell anyone about Meghan and what has happened to her as a member of the RF. Meghan told us what happened (watch Oprah interview). It’s frustrating when a person like Julie believes she knows and understands Meghan better than Meghan. IMO she immediately loses creditability when she comes up with an alternative reason for Meghan leaving Salty Island.
Join the club. This is how some in the US felt with Trump.
I won’t be watching. We now know the palaces sanctions docu before they are aired. Where Dr Shola, Trisha Goddard or any of the black personalities who defend Meghan, or even Prof Kate , Peter Hunt or Omid in this docu?
Chanel 5 is not important enough to have people like Dr. Shola, Trisha Goddard, Prof Kate, Peter Hunt or Omid in this documentary. This is not a Harpo or CBS 60 Minutes type of production.
They couldn’t find a single qualified POC who might be willing to appear? Not one in the whole of the UK?
Did they call every university and get turned away, contact every appropriate human rights organization only to be sent away by staffers with the hands raised, saying ‘nope, we have no clue what you’re on about. What can we say, racism just doesn’t exist here. We’re very much not a racist country, after all!’
. . . okay, that’s slightly dramatic, yes. But the thing is, I doubt they called even one school or group for an appropriate viewpoint. They have a narrative they want to sell – we’ve seen that very clearly at this point, after years of demonization by the BM, and including voices that agree with Meghan and Harry that racism is still very much alive in England is runs contrary to The Firm and Royal Rota’s agreed upon taking points.
I watched titanic the other day and finally understood the scene where Rose tried to leap overboard… I can totally understand how facing a lifetime of vacuous and pointless pursuits would make a strong woman with a healthy sense of self suicidal. If not one woman in The House of Windsor didn’t understand that and reach out to Meghan, then they deserve every bit of envy, jealousy and misery.
@Danci wrong site. Try dailymail.com
Being part of the aristocracy and being part of the royal family are two different things. Julie has no experience of being in the latter therefore cannot speak on Meghan’s experience – nobody other than Meghan can. And in comparison to Meghan, Julie is a nobody. Julie may have had easier time than Meghan because nobody cares enough about her to throw anti-American sentiment her way.
@No one in particular – Julie, as an American, was ask her opinion by a bunch of British Media muck raking anti-Meghan carnival-of-experts Brits and she agreed to give it. Her statements are just her opinions. We may not agree with opinions but that is no reason to attack her personally as if she is “ant-Meghan or a “racist” because she is not either of those things.
There are many people who deserved to be attacked personally because they are bad people but I do not think Julie Fisher Montagu, nor the Montagu-Sandwich family, fits into that category.
And people here are doing just that: disagreeing with her opinions. No offence but you seem to be taking this a bit personal @BayTampaBay. It’s fine if you disagree with people disagreeing with her or if you agree with her comments but it is coming off as you’re being personally insulted.
She went to a bunch of anti Meghan racists to give them her gaslighting opinion on Meghan not knowing her proper place, but sure, she’s totes not a racist.
@Sofia – You are correct and I need to calm down. There is some truth in what you are saying. What I was trying to say is that it is perfectly acceptable to disagree and say, “No, Julie is wrong as the Sussexes are not angry” but it bothers me that this woman is being attacked as a “nobody” when she definitely is a somebody to some degree or she would not have been invited to be on the show in the first place. Also, Julie is an American to boot. If anybody is a nobody, it is me.
People are attacking this woman as if she is Lady Colin Campbell and she is definitely not Lady Colin Campbell. I have seen Julie Montagu on many panel discussions or as an interview guest on UK TV shows (BBC America with Katy Kay) since the Sussex engagement and she is not ant-Meghan.
@BayTampaBay – You are right that she is a /somebody/ to some people but to most she’s a nobody, including here and in comparison to Meghan. And while she is American, marrying into the aristocracy and marrying into the royals are too very separate things and experiences. And Julie is being treated the same way people here treat “royal experts” when they try to speak about Meghan’s experiences so it’s not like she’s being singled out or whatever. It’s not like we give Angela Levin or Emily Andrews passes but we’re all reigning hellfire on Julie.
@ BayTampaBay Several Black women explained to you why this Julie girl’s comments were not positive! But it seems that this is the hill you want to die. Your continues posting and ignoring these women explanation is down right disrespectful. Do better.
Americans are all about defending the empire so let’s be cautious calling each other low.
Everyone believes “their” criticisms are deserved.
Edited: the string seems to have been deleted
I don’t know about all the rest of it, but I can certainly imagine that Meghan and Harry were horrified at the negative reaction from the family – expectant, but still horrified.
Was racism a huge factor in how Meghan was treated? Of course it was.
But anyone who thinks anti-Americanism wasn’t fuel for the bullying fires has never been an American living and working in England.
People aren’t saying that anti-Americanism didn’t play a part. People are saying it wasn’t the only thing and that racism was also a huge part.
I just want to add that it seems that Julie is dismissing it as JUST anti-Americanism. While it does play a part, it was not the only part. You cannot convince me that a fully white American Meghan would face the same treatment as biracial American Meghan.
Of course not. I’m responding to those saying it’s only racism and anti-Americanism wasn’t a factor. As with all things, it’s complex.
@Lionel: Well isn’t Julie doing the opposite then? Dismissing it as just anti-Americanism and not looking at the racism at all. That seems to be the issue for people here – the dismissal of racism.
Julie needs to do some research that is WAS racism on the part of William. His distaste for being related to Meghan and to have to share his spotlight with her was the reason the press got the go-ahead to take Meghan down. At this point in time, in the post-Oprah interview era, there is no excuse to blame Meghan’s takedown on her American spirit.
I thought this chick was the definition of annoying on Ladies of London and this is just the kind of simplistic take on Meghan I’d expect from her.
Lionel, I have to wonder if Julie is in a position in British society to be able to talk frankly. I think she has issues dealing with the aristocracy that she would view as not allowing her to speak about racism. That’s her choice, of course, but at some point the person who straddles the fence will fall.
I have been an American working and living in England. The casual jokes about Americans were there, but no, it is absolutely not what I would call harassment.
The racism is the main factor.
You were lucky then. Perhaps you worked at a multi-national firm with an office in London? Modern-day London is more worldly and diverse than it used to be, but as we learned yesterday there are still firms there that won’t hire a man because he wears brown shoes.
I’m generalizing, but old-line aristocrats tend to be disdainful of anything resembling ambition or a work ethic, because it was historically a threat to them (and in some ways still is, underlining their unearned wealth and privilege.) This attitude trickled down to the countryside and was very prevalent when I lived, schooled, and worked there. (And not in the sticks, I’m talking Oxfordshire.) And it exists on steroids in the RF, which is even more concerned with existential threats than the aristocracy writ large, and operates about 50 years behind the times anyway.
No. I did historical research, often adjacent to royal history, and worked in the private historical archives of aristocrats (meaning, archives in their manors and mansions they’d owned for generations) and researched using their documents, in Leicestershire AND London. I often had to pay a fee for entry even when it was a very small archive and submit my work to them after utilizing their resources so they could vet it. I never experienced anything where they looked down their noses at my work ethic or my nationality. There were a few jokes, and that was it.
Granted, I didn’t know any major aristos like the Percys etc. But no, there was no type of attitude like that.
Racism is what they all weaponized against Meghan. Hell, I wanted to go to Lambeth to visit East Street, the purported birthplace of Charles Chaplin, just to see. That area is largely populated by Black immigrants. The “advice” I got regarding doing that was insane.
@Lionel, anti-Americanism and racism are not two separate things in this instance, are they. For however poorly British society might view upstart white Americans coming into their midst, and however viciously they might treat black people in British society in general, what do people think would be their view of an African American person, particularly one marrying into the peak of the British class system?
These are not two separate Venn diagram circles that overlap a little bit. The whole thing is a circle, in that both circles overlap 100% to create a new problem. It’s not neatly separable, and it never has been, the problem has always been that British society dislikes Meghan because she is black American. It’s one word, not two separate ones.
In my experience, most rich white Britons dream of a life in America. They only fall back on their “superiority” when they need to make themselves feel better, often after realizing that they don’t have what it takes to succeed in America. If they were more American, maybe they could afford to fix up their crumbling family estates. Make no mistake, this is about racism.
Hell, many of them about a century ago had no issues marrying American women, who provided American capital, to fix those very crumbling family estates and fortunes. The British are desperate for American money and American approval, but get pissed off when they have to consider the pitfalls of their own society in comparison. Sucks to suck for Britain, but that’s what happens when you refuse any efforts at self-awareness as a society.
I think they like to forget that The Right Honourable Sir Winston Churchill was half American too. They venerate that racist SOB and at one time it was said he saved the UK.
Is it just the oldsters who think that these days?
what i want to know what is the point of this program? is this the media once again trying to justify their behaviour and blame the recipient for not not responding they way they are used to. then bring on talking heads to agree with their take of things? Meghan said she expected things to be fair.
so this is not a lessons learned program, there is not any real analysis of the situation. so what is the point.
i dont see this as a happy birthday program
It’s probably that. They’re obsessed with these specials and trying to justify why Meghan was abused to the point of having suicidal ideations.
I kinda get why they asked Julie to be a part of this, but I agree with most of the comments here. Yes, she’s an American married to an aristocrat, but she needs to get real. She’s a white lady who was part of a Bravo reality show. That alone tells us she can’t really relate to Meghan’s experience. So her shallow analysis of the situation is annoying, to say the least.
How do these people get paid to spout made up nonsense about someone they don’t personally know and have no clue as to what the individual actually thinks or feels? “I imagine” or “I believe” or “I think” Meghan and/ or Harry (insert bullshit here). It’s mind boggling that this is such a thing. And for the “irrelevant Sussexes” to constantly be talked about, written about, tv specials made about is the most bizarre and scary thing. Leave them alone. They left and put an ocean and a continent between themselves and Salty Island. Stop the obsession over them. Geez..
Another utterly oblivious, entitled white woman who thinks she’s all that and a bag of chips because she married up to some weak-chinned aristocrat. It was RACISM you dumb twat, plain and simple. Meghan’s life and the life of new newborn son were being threatened. The BRF ignored her and her husband’s complaints to do something about the tabloid attacks and threats, and in fact they were LEAKING to them against H&M.
She’s as thirsty as they come and craves adoration from the (white) British public so throwing Meghan under the bus is one of the most convenient and effective ways to garner attention.
aaaand … they’re STILL talking about meghan …
I watched Ladies of London. Julie was a groveling doormat. Her husband seemed awful and she was so ridiculously deferential to him. I think the family also bought their estate a few decades ago. It’s not an ancestral home.
The Sandwich branch of the Montagu family sold Hinchingbrooke House and bought the Mapperton Estate from some widow they were distantly related to if I remember correctly and am not getting my estates mixed-up.
Somewhere buried in this is a very funny joke about British royals still being frustrated with the recalcitrant behavior of those upstart colonies across the sea, but somebody far more clever than me needs to make it.
I am amazed that prior to 2018 I was oblivious to the rather large amount of anti-Americanism that appears to be prevalent in the UK. Although, to be absolutely fair, it doesn’t appear that the inhabitants of the salty isles like each other very much either. This is the problem with a highly stratified society. It leads to things like self loathing and Carole Middleton.
Also, thank you for using the pictures of H&M and not giving the Illinois babe any more oxygen.
These British aristos and this random American who married a viscount are all riding on Meghan’s coattails. They don’t have an identity of their own. They need to latch on to Meghan to be noticed. Poor souls. Sit down you all and SFU.
I am British and when people I know HATE Megan Markle I always ask why and they can never come up with a good reason, they’re always really minor criticisms that have been blown out of all proportion. Her curtsey, her tights, how she crossed her legs, touched her baby bump, how “she knew what she was getting into”. Like sure; something might MILDLY IRRITATE you but why do you hate somebody SO MUCH just because she crossed her legs wrong? How do you have the energy to sustain that kind of hatred? It is pathetic.
I’ll probs get thrown to the wolves here but at least from the discussions I have with people I genuinely don’t think it is racism (actually a lot of people I know didn’t realise she was even mixed race). I think it is MORE due to the fcat that she is American. Why should that make you hate someone? I have absolutely no fudging idea. But it seems to really bother a lot of Brits which is dumb AF.
Your first paragraph was fine.
The second is, pardon me, ridiculous. The papers were calling her Straight Outta Compton and implying she was a gang member from day one. They all did an extensive analysis of her Black background. If the people you speak to are paying attention to things like her curtsy, her baby bump, how “she knew what she was getting into”, then they are reading those stories too because the negative commentary about those things are all from those outlets. They know. It’s the same British denial about racism.
She wasn’t mailed white powder to provoke an anthrax scare because she was American. Her baby wasn’t compared to a chimpanzee because she was American. Open your eyes.
Maybe for the average person that is true but the tabloids who spread the hate, the courtiers who made hateful comments and disrespected Meghan and the family who spread rumors about her knew her heritage.
Oh please tell me you’re not dismissing or downplaying the racism Meghan faced????? Like please. Of course anti-American sentiment played a part but don’t dismiss the racism either. It’s not one or the other. It’s not a competition.
I am so tired of this. So so tired.
Sorry; let me clarify…
Yes absolutely there has been racism! I am so sorry I never meant to say the media and the BRF have not been horribly racist. Confessing my own ignorance I am not familiar with the Straight Outta Compton nickname given to her (?) I haven’t seen it myself in the British press but I haven’t got my news from a physical newspaper in a very long time.
However; from the personal subset of people I have spoken to they seem to take issue with her nationality; not her race. However I think those people have been influenced by the press, and the press has been horrifically racist.
Just because the people you talk to don’t have an issue with her race doesn’t mean there’s no race issue or that people don’t care about it or that it didn’t play a part.
Sorry, I never meant to imply there was NO race issue. From personal experience ONLY (and that doesn’t mean my experience speaks for the majority of the haters out there, it doesn’t) people I know just seem to hate her for being American for some reason. These are people I know who I would not class as racist. Their sole issue seems to be her nationality due to some weird British pride. Like; even if she were white they would hate her for being American.
You know what? Never mind. No. Not doing this. I give up.
If they can’t explain why they hate her, yeah, it’s probably racism whether you’d classify them that way or no. But they won’t SAY that openly. They’ll just use dogwhistles and try to distract from it.
You’re not helping the discussion point that British people are in denial about racism.
ok. Have to say. I am biracial and I feel that these people are so fundamentally racist they don’t even know how racist they are. They. Are. Steeped in racism to the point they are not aware of a different life experience and perspective. But….
all my life I have despaired in the knowledge that British people are so incredibly dismissive of Americans and Americans do not understand how deep the contempt is. So Charlotte, I understand what you’re saying. I think it probably depends on the individual which comes first, racism or sexism. They both are terrible.
Charlotte- they could well be hiding it from you because they know you aren’t racist. This has happened to me more than once.
This may have something to do with the misdirected rage about Harry’s choice of wife.
His marriage disrupts a myth and many people seem to be having issues coming to terms with it:
—> Psychotherapist Andy Cottom says that this English pride stems from something deeply unpleasant.
“There’s this island mentality that we seem to be very proud of — we’re only a little nation yet we had a huge empire,” he says.
“This goes back to our issues about shame. We’re deeply ashamed of not being who we used to be.”
http://www.cnn.com/travel/article/english-abroad-cmd/index.html
Also Harry breaking the racial contract means people will do anything to not face up to how invested they are in maintaining white supremacy. So they come up with excuses to deny who they are. This has nothing to do with targets and everything to do with the perpetrators.
http://www.thenation.com/article/society/meghan-harry-white-privilege/
The thing is that everyone here is talking about how the British public may or may not think about Meghan – are they racist, do they hate Americans, etc. But that’s not really the issue. Those questions should be asked of the RF – they’re the ones who didn’t support Meghan, they’re the ones who eventually forced H&M to leave. If the RF had supported Meghan, then she and Harry would still be there. If the RF had supported Meghan, then the British public would have had to accept her, too.
Eurydice- Harry put out a statement, publicly backed by William (whether he did in private is doubtful but this was reported to the press so publicly he wanted that image out there) while they were dating, for the press and public to lay off Meghan – they didn’t.
During the wedding, Charles walked her down the aisle and escorted Doria as a show of support (yes, Charles played his part in this saga and still is doing so, but my point is this was before that; and obviously we saw them all smirking at the wedding but the message at the time officially was one of support) – even these things weren’t enough to stop the tides of racism and hatred, and they were before the worst of the smear campaign/leaked stories from the palaces.
@Maria – Charles walking Meghan down the aisle was a wonderful picture and good for William if he actually meant his support for Harry’s statement. But those were two things. If you’re “very much not a racist family” you will be firm about showing it, you will continue to show public support, you will continue to make public statements, you’ll control your courtiers and you will show a united front. You don’t just throw up your hands and say “Oh, well. The British people are racists, there’s nothing we can do about it.”
Of course. But that’s not my point. My point is that early on they did make public shows of support (despite our suspicions about their private involvement with Thomas Markle etc) and it wasn’t enough to make the public accept her *at the time*, and it only got worse from there. And then the Royal family threw her to the wolves, as we know – but it hadn’t yet unfolded the way it did. So I am doubtful that them accepting her in the family would have been enough to change the tabloid/public narrative. People were sending her white powder during the engagement before anyone even knew anything about her or what she was going to do. The Royals decided to participate with that, as we saw – because they sympathized with the view of those who hated her and thought it was better for their bottom line too. Both the Royal family and the public are complicit but the public’s reaction is part of what influenced the Royals to behave how they did.
This lady is American born, she’s just salty – jealous of Meghan.
So an American can’t follow “do what we say”? Millions of Americans do that daily. It’s called having a job. Meghan had jobs before the RF and probably hard-to-please bosses at times like everybody so I don’t see this. What did Meghan do that has not been done by any other “working” royal that indicated she couldn’t fit in?
What all this has taught me is that English social norms are extremely strange, in the sense that what they expect and value from their royals and especially royal women is bizarre. I don’t consider the English people as a group and culture to be backwards and conservative when it comes to gender, but the ancient uptight standards they hold royal women to are seriously medieval. Princesses and duchesses must be ‘seen’ but rarely heard from. They must be skinny robots that curtesy perfectly and dress their young children like characters out of a fairytale. They can’t be too smart or have substantial opinions. Kate is obsessed with appearances and superficial aspects of her role more than anything else really. Knowing all this, the ridiculous judgement and nitpicking Meghan was subjected to is not surprising. However I just can’t understand this contradiction between their expectations from everyday women in society vs royal women. Can someone English illuminate me on why Royalists take this backwards view when it comes to gender roles ?
I have no idea, I’ve had this exact same discussion with friends and family. If Megan’s situation was applied to a friend, colleague, family member, even another celebrity then they would be up in arms over her treatment. But because she is a woman in the monarchy it is acceptable to pick her (and other Royal women) apart based on the length of their skirts, how they cross their legs, how they speak, whether or not they wear tights etc. It is archaic.
I also hate the ‘she knew what she was getting into; look at Diana’ arguement. Nobody really would know what life in the monarchy would be like until they’ve lived it. Clearly A LOT OF SH*T goes on behind closed doors.
@charlotte, this is why I am a proponent of abolishing the British monarchy. Everything about them symbolizes archaic norms and standards that serve to reinforce and justify any existing harmful attitudes in society. They hold back wider progress in my opinion and really don’t help anyone nearly as much as they help themselves first and foremost. Symbols really matter. I’m glad that the Sussexes don’t serve the crown anymore. Their charisma would have given that institution more longevity. Anything that speeds along its extinction is welcome in my books.
When we have both Harry and Meghan saying the family was concerned with how dark their baby would be and discussing the implications of having a dark skinned family member, we all know what’s up.
So for her to say it’s all down to anti American feelings and that Meghan’s inability to let go of her “American Dream” ideals was what caused a rift with the family is naïve at best. It feels like this take is another attempt to deflect from the bigger issue and place the blame on Meghan and her inability to conform instead of really looking at the issue.
“So for her to say it’s all down to anti American feelings and that Meghan’s inability to let go of her “American Dream”
Did Julie Montagu actually say it was ALL down to American feelings???
Was racism included in the conversation? Because from what I read she was blaming it on Meghan’s “American ways”. We’re going to agree to disagree here because you obviously like Julie and it feels like you’re ignoring what most people are saying.
When Meghan herself says the main problem was racism and people in the family not being able to see how harmful it was, it’s not up to Julie the white woman to say the issue was Meghan not being able to let go of her American ideals.
this white woman is explaining how a biracial woman should behave. me being a mix woman. my mil hated black people. i went and made an afro for my 2nd christmas with her. i have pics. i was 20 at the time. i was young at that time, but i took over everyone she talked too. all these older people like me . i remember saying to the elderly there cause i lived an apartment in my mil house. i sat on the road up to the hill and i said to the other elderly women, gosh my legs hurt i need to rest for a min and they all sat with me .
No. Tabloids lied and you believed the lies.
A person doesn’t maintain active friendships with friends from high school and college. The tabloids you choose to read decided that narrative from day one, DESPITE there consistently being proof that Meghan had decades long friendships.
So much for even the whiff of inclusion. They hated her from the color GO.
Nothing to do with being Americans. It is just that the royals and in particular Kensington Palace, think that ordinary commoner girls’ ultimate dream is to marry a prince and that is the end of it. They found the ultimate spouse in Kate Middleton, contented with the role of the obedient royal housewife.
Anyone else coming in would become a 500% nightmare as described by Prince William’s friends. Such a person would disturb the calm waters of Kensington Palace where it was reported that Prince William and Kate are so laidback that they would remain uncontactable for extended periods of time.
Meghan is a Californian before she is an American. As such she would have no problem fitting in an being accepted in London. It takes someone one minute to tell if you are from LA/NYC or from Oklahoma. Same as when I cross path with UK residents in LA.
Miss ma’am married and earl’s heir. Viscount is likely her husband’s courtesy title and yet she thinks she has the cache to talk smack about a blood prince and royal duke’s wife?
Girl….
Viscount whatever-her-name-is apparently forgot that if it weren’t for the US, Brits would be wearing lederhosen, eating schnitzel (although lets be honest schnitzel is delicious!), speaking German and drinking Pilsner in a biergaarten (also not the worst thing in the world tbh) in New Hamburg/Old London.
Now while i might not think some of these things sound terrible at all, lets be real it would be the indignities of the MILLENIA in the UK
Viscount whatever-her-name-is apparently forgot that if it weren’t for the US, Brits would be wearing lederhosen, eating schnitzel (although lets be honest schnitzel is delicious!), speaking German and drinking Pilsner in a biergaarten (also not the worst thing in the world tbh) in New Hamburg/Old London.
Now while i might not think some of these things sound terrible at all, lets be real it would be the indignities of the MILLENNIA in the UK
OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG tell me you didn’t watch the Oprah interview without telling me you didn’t watch the Oprah interview.
It’s pretty clear from the words of Meghan that she wanted to stay, wanted to help, wanted to fit in and wanted to make it work but that HER HUSBAND saw the emotional and physical toll that this toxic life was taking on his pregnant wife, put his foot down to his family and said we are leaving.
I know doggone well that Ms American Viscountess saw that interview but to say she was too American to fit in makes absolutely no sense. Do I think Meghan presented ideas? Yes! Do I think she probably thought this is not what I imagined? Yes. Do I think she knew that she needed to play by the rules? Yes. Do I also think that she might have pushed back a little to see if things could sway a bit and move away from business as usual? Yes.