Richard Kay had an interesting column in the Daily Mail about Prince Andrew and his legal response to Virginia Giuffre. Kay managed to repeat every gory, prurient detail in Andrew’s response, all while noting that this is likely the end of the line of Andrew, that there’s no coming back. I honestly don’t get the point of Kay’s column – clearly, Kay is trying to help Andrew make his case, and clearly Kay has spoken to people in Andrew’s circle. But it’s also clear that Andrew basically has no power and one of last remaining options is to smear Virginia Giuffre as a “money-hungry sex kitten” and Jeffrey Epstein’s “head bitch” (I’m not paraphrasing). So what IS the point? I guess Kay is just trying to sigh and do Andrew’s bidding but remind everyone that Andrew is gross and there’s no coming back.
Andrew in the gutter: The prince’s reputation is in the gutter and the good name of the wider Royal Family has been soiled by the fallout. Now, however, the gloves are off. Andrew’s adversarial American lawyers have come out fighting to confront the sexual abuse claims that have swirled about the head of the Queen’s favourite son for so long. The question is will it work, or might their aggressive intervention risk damaging the prince even more?
The reaction to Andrew’s defense: This was certainly a dramatic change in Andrew’s strategy and women’s groups reacted with fury accusing him of ‘victim shaming’ and further evidence of the prince’s ‘appalling judgment’.
Andrew’s friend speaks: A friend of the prince said yesterday: ‘He has stayed silent, perhaps for too long, but it is right and proper that he should be allowed to defend himself. His reputation, his life has been trashed. Enough is enough.’
The timing: Some, inevitably, will wonder if it is all too late, that in the court of public opinion the prince has already been judged and found guilty. Others will question the morality of impugning the reputation of Miss Roberts, who although no paragon was equally a victim of Epstein. Certainly Andrew’s timing has not been ideal.
Will this backfire? For Andrew, there is a risk of his approach backfiring, that public reaction will mean his professional position will never be restored. But he calculated that continuing to do nothing is equally hazardous and by highlighting Miss Roberts’s alleged greed he may have unearthed a compelling defence. His friends insist that submitting the article in which her ex-boyfriend Philip Guderyon contended she was not a sex slave but rather a ‘money hungry sex kitten who flashed her cash and enjoyed the finer things in life’ was necessary. ‘They are not the duke’s lawyers’ comments,’ says the friend, ‘but it is perfectly legitimate to include them because the narrative cannot be owned by one individual.’
“For Andrew, there is a risk of his approach backfiring, that public reaction will mean his professional position will never be restored…” I mean, his position will never be restored. Period. The end. I doubt anyone other than Andrew believes that anything can be “restored.” At the moment, Andrew is merely trying to discredit Virginia by any means necessary, digging the hole deeper and deeper for himself. To what end though? It’s clear that Virginia would settle. It would be best for Andrew if he settled. Why isn’t he? Is it because the Queen would be the one paying the settlement and the Queen would rather pay for Andrew’s unhinged legal defense? Ugh.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
He’s too arrogant to settle. Also if he does settle so publically I wonder how many of his other victims will come out.
Yep, and given what we know of the legal system and the toxic attitudes of a big part of the public, I’m sorry to say this brazen strategy might be the winning one. So sad.
He can then “come back” to the “cancel culture is eeeeevil ” crowd.
@Goofpuff I was just about to type “Arrogance” then saw your comment. That’s exactly what it is, no matter how much worse it makes his situation.
And did this “friend” who’s going on about how Andrew has “stayed silent” for too long somehow miss the Newsnight interview?
I also noticed the other day that in an article in the New York Times, even they referred to Andrew’s “friendship with Jeffrey Epstein” as being Andrew’s issue. No mention of rape charges or Virginia or his current legal battle. Obviously the trash British tabloids have been doing this for a while, but for the New York Times to downplay it like that? Horrifyingly disappointing.
The NYT ain’t what it used to be, sad to say.
I cannot believe Andrew or rather his mother didn’t write a massive check with an NDA attached. I’m thrilled that Andrew has been so arrogant and stupid to not do this, but I wonder if it was his arrogance or his lawyers and the courtiers who thought they could make this go away.
It’s interesting to think of Tommy Lascelles’ opinion of the Duke of Windsor and contrast that with the Queen indulging her favorite son to the point where Andrew turned out this way.
Their approach is so wrong! It just makes him look guiltier.
If they had half a brain, they would have settled. He could have said “accusations aren’t true, but she was a child victim and she deserves recompense. I feel guilty for having associated with Epstein so anything I can do to make up for his evil in some small way I will do.”
That’s the right approach without admitting guilt, but the RF has no compassion and no empathy for anyone not royal. So he screwed his self thoroughly.
She won’t sign an NDA. Virginia only settled with Ghislaine after they agreed to no NDA. That’s why she has been able to sue multiple people involved in this AND why the money hungry argument won’t work.
That’s what I came to say as well.
Even if she wouldn’t sign an NDA, a private settlement would avoid a huge court case that would drag on for years exposing the royal family to more and more scrutiny and embarrassment. I mean, they deserve it, but settlement would have been a wiser course for them.
I’m wondering whether part of the settlement is that she is insisting on an admission of guilt or a public apology. And that’s why he’s fighting on, despite how badly it looks.
I suspect they’ve already tried that. I’m glad Virginia is sticking to her guns on this one. Rich people cannot get away with doing whatever they want, and then using money to get away with it.
It was kind of obvious that his attempts to make her look like a slut and a gold digger were going to fail. How many times have women been labelled as this? Everyone can see right through it, and it’s on a level with his interview.
It’s unlikely other settlements will admissible in court so this is purely a PR game. Like all Windsors, Andrew sucks at PR.
Virginia was “no paragon”? WTAF? She was a child, a victim of sex trafficking. Their language betrays so much of how Andrew views this situation, and I hope her lawyers wipe the floor with him.
I did volunteer work with a girl who was 9 and had been prostituted out by her mother. She would flirt – at- me and no male volunteers were allowed to work with her. It was a horrifying situation she had lived in. And I suppose you could describe this 9 year old sex trade victim as a flirt, but anyone with half a heart and a brain cell knew it was only because of her victim hood that she acted in that way. She was groomed, abused, and raped, and eventually coped with it by embracing it. Screw Andrew for ever and ever.
Tessa, that is heartbreaking
That children live that way just breaks me. That there *are* people who would call her a flirt and blame her for what happened to her enrages me.
She had been taught that was what adults expected of her. It kept her safe, fed, it was how she survived. Very sad, but normal for her. I hope she was able to recover from the abuse.
Poor child. Reminds me of the movie ‘Pretty Baby’ with Brooke Shields; the 12-year-old ‘flirted’ with the clientele solely because she had been groomed to do so.
That they don’t get that shocks me. Even if Giuffre did commit some crimes at that time (and I can’t remember if she did), she was, as you say *a trafficked child* trying to keep her head above water. This is not the defense Andrew thinks it is. It manages to make him look even worse somehow.
It astounds me that they have no idea how bad this makes them all look, but I really shouldn’t be surprised by their deadly combination of arrogance and stupidity.
“Astounds” is a good word for it. I know none of the royals are particularly bright but can’t the expensive lawyers explain that as we’ve learned more in the last few decades, we don’t think as horrifically anymore? How has no one explained this to Andrew or his mother? (Or maybe his mother isn’t tracking things like that anymore, mentally, I mean).
Andrew is forever marked by this, forever tainted by not just what he did, but by his cowardly, sniveling attempt at “defense.” Ugh, he is grotesque, this favorite son, and emblematic of the House of Windsor.
I agree!
The only person who is damaging andrew’s reputation further is andrew himself.
Virginia had her say and if Andrew had responded with merely a statement saying that the accusations weren’t true, that it would still be bad but nor as bad as it is now.
It was AFTER his interview that the public basically deemed him guilty and ever since his response concerning this ordeal said anything but “im innocent”.
It honestly seems like his “defense” is “I did it, but she liked it and deserved it.” So gross.
His “fans” make it sound they were on a date or something and she “liked it.” Leaving out that she was trafficked by Epstein and Ghislaine.
In one breathe, Andrew’s lawyers attempt to tear down Virginia, and in the next, they argue that the settlement between her and Epstein should “absolve him of any responsibility”. No surprise that Kay doesn’t even attempt to touch that because, to me, that is the REAL bombshell.
Andrew’s response shows just how out of touch he and his circle of cronies are with the way the rest of the world views things. They need to step out of the 1850’s and into 2021 and realize that it’s not just “women’s groups” who find his victim blaming reprehensible. Society in general has moved forward to a different place where that approach is not just automatically acceptable. It’s disgusting.
And if we were to play devil’s advocate for one moment and accept his assertion that VG is just money hungry and has already received ‘enough’ money from the previous settlements, then their logic fails. She would not be pursuing this if it was just about the money. Virginia Giuffre is making a point. She is holding Andrew accountable, and she is willing to go all the way to trial to make that point since Andrew is too arrogant and stubborn to settle quietly.
Andrew’s head is so far up his own rear that he can’t see how much worse he is making this for himself. Let him continue to bury himself….
Does the Queen still think Andrew is innocent? I can’t decide if this bus is arrogance and self-centeredness alone or if he’s still stringing Mummy along with a lie that he is too scared to walk back from. Would she pull the plug on the $$$ and support?
I think she knows he did it, but still thinks he is innocent. In her mind, he just slept with a 17-year-old ‘prostitute’ and was stupid to be caught. In any case, doesn’t matter what she believes, the monarchy can’t accept any wrongdoing. If you cast Andrew aside completely, you accept he did something wrong. It LOOKS like he did something wrong. That’s their strategy: since no one can ever touch you, never look like you’re in guilt or people will come for you tenfold.
My guess is that it doesn’t matter whether she thinks Andrew is innocent or guilty. This is a bad thing for the monarchy and she’s going to dig in until the legal system declares one way or the other. And because this is a civil case, the verdict will be about money, not jail time – so Andrew can go back into the woodwork until he dies.
I think you’re right!
The Queen tends to ignore serious problems until it reaches a crisis point.
You know, I had actually kinda wondered how much the Queen herself believed Paedrew. Whether she was paying for his defense because she honestly thought he was the victim of some greedy Lolita, or simply because that’s her precious boy no matter what he’s done. The answer to that is ultimately irrelevant to any intelligent person with even the faintest notion of morality, of course, but I thought it would be interesting to know. With this so-called “defense”, however, he’s basically removed any doubt that he raped at least one child (and spoiled, amoral predators aren’t exactly known for their restraint, so…), and even Mummy must know the truth. Is she so old now that the public will give her a pass for trying to help him evade justice?
In her day, a teenage girl was not considered a child. I don’t think the queen believes Andrew has done anything wrong, beyond sleeping with sex workers. Her privilege won’t allow her to understand, which is a basic problem with a monarchy.
Right. My grandmother was around the queens age (and size and build and hair style), she and my granddaddy got married right before she turned 17, and right after he turned 23. I was horrified when I did the math, my mom just shrugged and said she had graduated high school and said that’s just how they did stuff back then.
I can see my grandmother not understanding what the fuss was, other than prostitution. And I agree about the monarchy, with the “stability” comes the hanging on to outdated ideas.
Also, she’s a relic from another era who fixed on her own [adult] future husband at the age of 13. Her lens on the situation is going to be very distorted.
Princess Elizabeth “fell in love” with Philip when she was 13, his Uncle Mountbatten was pushing for the match. When she came “of age” he started formally dating her though they were corresponding before she came “of age.”
I hope Andrew goes down hard. No feather bedding for this sexual predator.
Virginia is a s/hero. And I can’t imagine her settling for any amount of money if there were an NDA attached. I’m guessing she’d settle for attorney fees and an apology. Which will never happen.
To paraphrase one if my favorite children’s books, that prince is a bum. (“The Paper Bag Princess.)
He’s never coming back from this even if he’s found not guilty (it’ll probably anger people even more). He tried using Philip’s death to weasel his way back and was quickly shut down by the public.
I know his lawyers are working with the “best” they’ve got and have to throw everything to the wall to see what sticks but as a human being with a conscience, I find Andrew’s defence utterly horrible and blood boiling.
People will never believe him BECAUSE is such a spectacularly bad liar – who lied very badly on national TV. But he’s too arrogant and too stupid to realize that he pretty much condemned himself in the public opinion because his defense were comprised of lies that were so bad and ridiculous that EVERYONE can see that he’s lying.
Not one person by Randy Andy believes Virginia is lying. Even Richard Kay, of all people, wouldn’t put those words to print for Andy.
Everyone knows he did it. Period.
The way the British press reported Andrew’s defence gave me impression that they have chosen a side and its not Virginia’s.
Not strictly true – Marina Hyde excoriated him in the Guardian and pointed out his lawyer is also representing Armie Hammer in his cannibal fetish rape case, which makes the whole situation even grubbier: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/02/prince-andrew-virginia-giuffre-claims-sexual-assault
She’s a columnist and not part of the Royal Rota.
Andrew’s lawyer Andrew Brettler very tellingly is same lawyer for- Armie Hammer, Bryan Singer, Bill Cosby, and Danny Masterson.
All accused or have been tried as serial rapists. Just the most heinous of the most heinous.
I don’t understand. Couldn’t he just have quietly settled this civil case early and avoided this ? I know law enforcement still wants to talk to him but it seems like that was being ignored and he will never go to USA again.I’m not an attorney so I’m interested in what legal people think/ would have advised their own client.
He could have but he is an arrogant muthaf*cka.
And this is why the Queen is holding onto her power until her dying breath. Because Charles has made it clear for decades that when he ascends, Andrew descends right on out of the Firm. And she does not want to be alive to see that. They’re all rubbish, though, and the entire Windsor collection should be binned (save the American branch).
I don’t think it’s just about Andrew. It’s clear that the family doesn’t respect anyone who doesn’t have power. If the Queen wants any influence, she has to stay the monarch. Look at how Charles is going to handle the Duke of Edinburgh title. He doesn’t care about any promises made.
I don’t even understand why Charles is wasting any time or capital on denying Edward the DoE title. Charles is going to be the King for gods sake, he will always be more “important” & “powerful,” than Edward, so why do something so pointless & petty to him?
We all know that Andrew is the one who Charles can’t wait to tear to shreds when the Queen passes, so you’d think he’d want as many allies within the family as possible. Plus, it has been made crystal clear that Edward & Sophie will never, ever “overshadow” anyone in that family with their popularity, no matter what titles they might be given, which is Charles’ biggest fear, so why wouldn’t he follow through with giving Edward this vanity title that had been promised to him? It makes no sense.
“Miss Roberts, who although no paragon was equally a victim of Epstein.” Really? How was Andrew “equally” a victim of Epstein?
I have a question for any one that really understands the law. Why didn’t Andrew originally admit that he slept with her? It would have been scandalous for the RF and himself but, I believe she was over the age of consent every where she claims they had sex. Wouldn’t the burden of proof then fall to Virginia’s camp to show Andrew knew she was a sex slave? Or if he admitted he had sex with her, would he then be on the hook for more criminal charges?
I’m just wondering if that would’ve been a better legal defense than this bs “I don’t know her” and she’s a “money hungry wh*re” anyways defense?
The really important part of “age of consent” here is “consent” – the point is Epstein was a sex trafficker.
But in the civil case, couldn’t Andrew state that he had no knowledge of what Jeffrey and Ghislaine were forcing her to do? And that as far as he knew Virginia did consent to having sex with him, because he had no knowledge of Epstein being involved in sex trafficking. Could he not plead ignorance to the whole thing?
Also, I want to make it clear that I don’t believe Andrew was ignorant. I think he’s scum, but I’m just curious from a legal point of view.
@Marilee: It’s an interesting question. Let me preface by saying I have zero sympathy for Andrew. I believe he knew exactly what he was doing and should suffer some harsh consequences. However, for the sake of the legal argument, I think you’re right, he could have said “I’m a prince, I slept with so many willing women back in my single days, I don’t remember this one but I reckon I could have done…” and claimed ignorance of the trafficking and/or of her age. And then quietly settled. That might have been the smarter move in retrospect. Then again, there’s his documented friendship with Epstein, his admission that he knew of the Florida charges, and the footage of him answering the door at Epstein’s house in NY with all the young girls coming in and out. All that might work against the “women throw themselves at me, how could I possibly have known?” defense.
Guiffre has nothing to lose here. I’m glad she’s choosing to fight this. She already won another settlement, so money isn’t the issue for her–she likely wouldn’t take a settlement even if it was offered if it came with an NDA. This is about telling the truth about a monster, and the monsters band of cronies, which includes Andrew. She had no power, no authority. She was publically excoriated and shamed and she kept fighting. She keeps fighting. No powerful man should ever get away with what Epstein got away with. She’s fighting for justice. Powerful men who do harm probably can’t be stopped–they will likely go underground, to other countries, to feed their depravities. But no public-facing person should think they can get away with this anymore, not in the age of social media. The British public has a right to know that members of the royal family, who they pay for, are abusing people. Maybe the ratchets don’t care. But Andrew isn’t owed silence or privacy. He’s getting exactly what’s coming to him, which is the public shame he deserves.
People are stuck on the age of consent. There shouldn’t be an age of consent when someone is trafficked. Andrew was not her boyfriend, he wasn’t some guy she met in a club and decided to go home with. She was told to service him, whether she was16 or 26 at the time, she did not have the choice to consent.
At the interview he said he was at a birthday party with his daughters, what happened to that defense? No parent has come forward to say he was at their child’s party that day or that they were at a kid’s birthday party and he was there. Surely someone would have remembered.
I read that Virginia’s attorneys want to deposition from Fergie and Beatrice. They probably will also ask for a deposition from his security detail.
Maybe they did try to settle with her years ago but if she refused to sign a NDA the deal fell apart. Or in his mind who’s going to believe an American from a working class background over the Queen’s favorite son.
The Royal men seem to suffer from “Golden Penis” syndrome. It’s a serious term and such men should be called out.
Turns out it’s going to trial! Sept to Dec of 2022!! I wish Virginia Guffre strength. I’m sure celebitchy will write about this tomorrow. Curious about the take that Andrew’s lawyers are revealing that Andrew is saying she was recruiting girls to be trafficked……um…..dude!! IF that’s true, and you know about it, aren’t you just telling on yourself that you were aware girls were being trafficked by Epstein? Thought you didn’t know anything while chowing down on pizza in Woking and struggling to sweat?