People are still forming their opinions about Christopher Andersen and his new book, Brothers and Wives: Inside the Private Lives of William, Kate, Harry, and Meghan. Page Six had excerpts over the weekend about two big royal storylines: 1) the “royal racist” who said something to someone about what color Harry and Meghan’s children would be and 2) why, when and how Harry and William fell out during Harry’s courtship with Meghan. Some of Andersen’s narrative sounds like it came from Kensington Palace, and Charles is certainly making a lot of noise about how he was not the one asking about a baby’s skin color. So… I still don’t know. Andersen isn’t coming across like a hack with an axe to grind, but his tea seems pretty lukewarm in general. My guess is that despite his protests to the contrary, he doesn’t have that much access or knowledge about what’s really happening. Still, he was invited on the Today Show on Monday to talk about his book.
On Prince Charles asking about the baby’s skin color: Prince Charles was acting like any grandparent when he pondered the likely appearance of his future grandkids — but it was “weaponized” as part of a long “toxic” royal feud, according to the author who outed him. Andersen insisted that the UK’s heir to the throne only mused about “what [his] future grandchildren might look like” in a “very benign way… I mean, here’s this beautiful biracial American woman and the world’s most famous redhead. I’m a grandfather … we all do this. But it was turned into something very toxic. It was weaponized, really, by the men in gray who run the palace organization.”
The disorganized monarchy: Andersen insisted that the royal family has for years not been a “unified entity,” with the especially bitter divide between Harry and his brother, William, starting when Harry was a toddler. Each brother’s household is part of “three factions” within royalty, with the other belonging to Queen Elizabeth II along with Charles and his wife, Camilla. “And they’re all in competition behind the scenes, and constantly pulling the rug out from each other and constantly leaking information. And so it’s a very toxic environment. Somebody has described them as a nest of vipers, and I don’t think that’s really wrong.”
On Clarence House issuing a denial about the book: Andersen said it was “predictable” that Charles would deny his book’s claim, with a spokesperson for the heir apparent telling The Post that it was “fiction and not worth further comment.” But he stands by the book. “I have been covering the family for 50 years. So my sources are solid. I’ve had them for decades, and tended to them very carefully. So whatever is in the book, there are multiple sources.”
As I said, I have no doubt that Charles said some racist sh-t. If he only said the racist sh-t to Camilla and it still got out… well, that’s really funny. It wouldn’t even be the first time this month that I thought Camilla was leaking damaging sh-t about Charles!! Anyway, my take is still that Charles was saying racist sh-t and so was everyone else. I’m sure Anne, Andrew, Edward, Zara, William, Kate and Sophie were ALL trashing Meghan behind the scenes and heaping racial microaggressions onto both Harry and Meghan in 2017/18. But just going off what Harry said, in his own words, to Oprah… it was someone very close to him who said something horribly racist and appalling. And I just feel like it was William. If it’s William, then everything else fits into place, the cooling off between brothers, the timeline of it all.
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On Twitter M&H rep said all of this was false.
Charles throwing his spare under the bus is nothing new. The Sussexes used the word ‘concerns’ not curiosity. Nothing was weaponised. We all saw the family’s toxicity at the Sussexes wedding and at the Commonwealth service.
No their rep said nothing about this boook
I believe that William “pondered” Archie’s skin color. It’s not that he just asked Archie’s potential skin color but also the circumstances surrounding the ask. Here is what must be understood. If Meghan felt the how and why William’s concern about the color of Archie’s skin was racist…..it was racist. Also if William and Kate are bold enough to have a painting called “The Negro Page” hanging in KP a few feet away from the Obama’s on their visit than YES they are racist
I think they were all talking about it- some in more harmful ways than others. It doesn’t sound like they were having these conversations with Meghan directly which suggests it wasn’t all in friendly ‘just curious’ manner.
The person who said something direct to Harry probably said something super awful like “what if she has some d**kie with [insert stereotypical derogatory African features] & we have that on the balcony”. I don’t think they were just concerned about a baby with a slight tan but if the baby had certain features too. I think that’s why the palace didn’t ask them to do a hospital photocall (not that they were necessarily inclined). They weren’t sure how Archie would look.
This author is just spinning old tea from the tabloids etc. Everyone wants to know who the royal racist is so hes just spinning a conversation that sounds realistic to act like this is who they were talking about on Oprah.
Of course they would not ask Meghan directly….the Brits are never direct. The point is as stated in the Oprah interview it was said to Harry and communicated to Meghan and if Meghan said it was racist it was…PERIOD.
I think it was Charles. William’s beef was that Harry was marrying someone who intended to work full time. Charles is obsessed with his image and no doubt wondered how he would look holding a mixed-race baby.
@Mac … I believe William is more concerned with image than Charles. Didn’t Robert Lacey say William came to Charles’s home and yelled at his father–in front of Camilla– because he didn’t like the visuals of something Charles had done, didn’t like how it looked?
I’ve asked myself what William could have possibly said to Harry to make him that mad. IMHO, saying, “Bro, are you sure you’re not moving too fast with this girl?” just doesn’t inspire that level of anger.
M & H rep said no such thing. They’ve reached out to team Sussex for comment and they responded with “no comment”.
stop lying
Could just be repeating misinformation, not necessarily lying? A harsh accusation unless you’re sure.
Meghan and Harry speak for themselves. I don’t believe they allowed someone else to speak on this situation for them, I don’t believe they will make a statement about it one way or another. Anyone can jump on Twitter and claim to represent someone or something. In the case of M&H they have been making their own statements the past 2 years.
Did you say Camilla!!!?? leaking stuff about Charles? Why would she do that,whats to gain. If that is even a possibility then these people are sicker than i thought.
I think she has loose lips. She blabs to her friends, and they blab to the press.
Apparently she is very fond of gin so FHMom’s ‘loose lips’ comment make sense. Camilla is also very good friends with some of the Royal Rota.
I also agree with Becks1. It’s been said elsewhere that Camilla didn’t like Fawcett who she saw as being too powerful and having too much control over her husband. However, by exposing the cash for honours and dodgy charity things she not only got rid of Fawcett but she also damaged the POW’s reputation. Probably didn’t think it through.
Camilla has never been even near discretion.
This is the woman who complained loud enough for reporters to print it about the president of the United States supposedly farting.
Some of us here are of the belief that Camilla leaked the stories about the prince’s foundation over the summer as a power move to get rid of Fawcett. I didn’t think it was her initially, but once someone brought it up…..she fits.
Becks 1, I don’t think that Camilla, aka MI6 International Flatulence Informant is going to spills the beans on Tampon-gate. As much as she disliked Fawcett, she would never jeopardize Chaz’ position.
I never thought and do not think that Charles is the “racist” that Harry was referring to in the Oprah interview.
Yep. While I absolutely believe Charles probably asked the way this reporter is saying it went down….Harry was referring to William in the Oprah interview. I will never be convinced otherwise.
I don’t, either. I think it was/is William and Kate nearly exclusively.
Actually, let me back that up. I think it is William and Kate with a heapin’ helpin’ of the Middletons.
This entire thing smacks of the Middletons.
@ swirlmamad, it has Baldinghams fingerprints all over the conversation of the “potential” look of Archie. Baldingham was against Harry’s choice of Meghan from the moment that he learned of their relationship. Baldingham refuses to accept anyone that will “blemish” The Royal family, period.
Baldingham ignorantly shoved his disgusting racist views to Harry about Megan, and probably on many occasions with regards to how harmful a union would present. I will go to my grave knowing in my heart that this awful, vile, ignorant selfish and ugly man-child made these comments, and more, with regards to Meghan.
I agree. While i am sure that the entire family is racist and said racist things, only a few would dare say that to Harry. And William is bold enough to do it.
It is also noticeable that Harry airs out his issues about Charles on Oprah, but he is silent on William, it is is just “space”.
Why some would interpret that as a positive thing I don’t know. Harry would say positive things about William if he wanted to. He did not.
The trials and tribulationd of bored rich people.
That’s my big question. Why would she, of all people, leak damaging information about Charles. That doesn’t compute in my head.
She wants to make sure Charles makes her Queen as it seems the time is approaching. She wants Charles to know she knows things and can make things difficult for him. She just made sure Fawcett was tossed out for good. And going back into history, she briefed the Sun’s editor weekly when Charles and Diana were married, so its in her blood.
Agree with you. Charles said it at the breakfast table, most likely with servers around. It’s not Camilla leaking this.
Charles probably started it and Camilla ran with it. Then William weaponized it.
Truth is, in a way, this guy is probably right. Ask any POC—Black people, South Asian, East Asian, Latino—whether the grandparents had “concerns” about how dark his/her (more likely her) grandkids were gonna be. The internalized racism—much of it rooted in colonialism or other self hatreds based on white standards of “beauty”—is very much alive. The irony though, is that this question arising from the Colonizer in Chief makes it especially abhorrent, tone deaf, and indicative of the racism that fed and empowered that very institution. Even if Charles didn’t mean any harm and was just wondering how this “cross” might turn out, it reeks of casual racism, ignorance, a lack of self awareness, and proof positive that the Monarchy must go. Pronto. So this guy trying to excuse Charles is actually making matters worse.
Black mother of four biracial kids and I can def confirm that colorism and being asked by older family members about the baby’s skin tone and features is a thing. My mom was concerned that my children inherit “good hair” and not be “too dark.” The youngest came out able to pass for white and that was mentioned, too. Ugh.
@ Bendy Windy, how awful for you, and your children. The utter ignorance and flat out refusal for people to educate themselves is utterly disgusting. I do hope that your children are never subjected to these racist comments or actions. It sounds like that they have a fabulous mother who will protect them to the ends of the earth.
Yup. South Asian here, and my mother has told me that her mother breathed a sigh of relief after my birth that I wasn’t dark like my father.
“Charles probably started it and Camilla ran with it. Then William weaponized it.”
I like this theory, and it sounds about right (white?) to me, too.
None of your parents will be the future king/ of the commonwealth that has more brown and black people; if you show racism and concern with your flesh and blood, how in the world are you not going to be racist toward people who are not related to you? I am confused how so many people share stories of their family members being concerned about the color of their child/children’s skin tone and still consider these people’s family. Some of you-all family members are as bad as the royal family—My god.
In another 2-3 generations, it will have faded away into the past along with the attitudes espoused by the older generations. The empire is dead and the colonialist attitude will be, too.
Step back just a minute hold off on the sanctimony. It’s because you love your family and you know where it is coming from. Internalized racism does not make you a bad person. It makes you someone who has to unlearn something that has become a part of the very essence of your being. Even POC with dark skin have hoped their children don’t turn out to be as dark as them…because they have accepted what racists have said about them and/or they want their children to have it better than them. As @what’s inside says, this will fade in a few generation. You don’t throw people out because of this. You work with them. People can change. Now, with that said, if said people were unable to change and the grandchildren (for example) were being subjected to bias, of course you remove your children from that situation. It simply is not that black and white. My parents are in their eighties. They held thoughts like this in the past. They don’t hold those beliefs anymore. Know what else is wonderful? Seeing them able to release the internalized racism and love themselves. I’m glad they lived to feel it. Many people do not.
You’re not talking about the lawyer are you? because the NYPost reached out to their Reps, who didn’t reply.
His argument makes zero sense. He’s presenting this theory that it was sheer curiosity on Charles’ part but was purposely spread as racism by the men in grey. Who the f*ck does that benefit? Not a single household looks good and it means everyone was raised in racism. It screws them all over. This isn’t plausible.
I don’t think it applies in this instant but I honestly do think that sometimes the men in grey run amok. Without their superior knowledge.
It doesn’t make sense really but also his whole summary about how the palaces are all constantly leaking, lying, in competition, and trying to pull the rug out from under each other combined with “but I got this from my palace sources, so it’s true and I stand by my reporting!” is stupid. So you’re telling us that as a Royal reporter, you basically just print whatever you’re given, but you know that it’s probably lies, or at least twisted and exaggerated to make someone else in the family look very, very bad, but you still print it and stand behind it, and think that your story has some kind of authority of truth behind it because it came from a palace source, the palace sources you *just* told us are all backstabbing liars?
The same thing is happening with the princes and the press documentary. The entire royal reporting profession is just outing themselves as gossip mongers and reporters of lies. They get their info directly from palace sources, so they feel like it’s ethical to print it because they themselves aren’t making it up, but at the same time they know that the palaces all leak and lie about each other because they’re competitive and trying desperately to make everyone else look bad so they can look okay by comparison.
“The palaces lie.”
“Is this particular story a lie?”
“Absolutely not, I got it directly from my palace source!”
And the thing is, they’re not reporting “on” the lies, they’re reporting the lies.
Like we didn’t have a story from Camilla Tominey about how she was told from a very high up source that Meghan made Kate cry, but that she had heard from another high-up source that the opposite happened, so its unclear what actually happened at the dress fitting b/c there are several conflicting stories.
No, Camilla said MEGHAN MADE KATE CRY!!!!! and that was that.
Even if you’re getting something from Kate, or her mother, or Camilla, or Charles – double and triple check it. I remember during the Trump administration, (dark dark days), reporters for WaPo would always say things like “the things in this article have been verified by multiple independent stories” when they were breaking some new scandal about the administration. There is none of that for royal reporting.
@amy too, exactly! And your description of it is brilliant!
I doubt only one of them said something racist.
Exactly. I’m sure almost everyone in the line of succession (and those not in it aka aristos/courtiers) from Charles all the way down to Prince Michael and maybe even beyond said racist things.
I think the same. All of them said something about H&M having kids or about Archie when she was pregnant, so they’re all thinking Harry meant them, and now they’re leaking about how it wasn’t so bad and telling on themselves.
Likely everyone said something to varying degrees. But given what Harry actually said in the interview, the state of his relationship with Elegant Bill still, and Elegant Bill’s own incredibly out-of-touch and racist behavior, and my money is on his brother being the one who kept pushing ‘concerns’ about the skin color of Harry’s heirs. Not curiosity. Not interest. Concerns.
Once Charles is gone, and William is king (if the monarchy survives), Harry will have prominence as the monarch’s only sibling. He’ll also move to fourth in the line of succession (until the Cambridge kids have children) and (if he hadn’t stepped back?) would likely be regent if something happened to William while his children were underage. Thus, not hard to imagine Will having big problems with his brother’s half of the family being biracial, and his being more personally invested in whether Harry married Meghan than even the rest of the RF. Add onto that his jealousy of Harry and history of controlling him (or trying to) – and I’d go with William. Though I’m sure all of them thought about it, if Charles raised the issue with Harry, he at least knows the meaning of tact. The way Harry and Meghan talked with Oprah, it sounded like the conversations had been very offensive, and that suits William’s style to a T.
TigerMcQueen, This is where I’m at. They’ve all said racist things and they’re all worried they’re the royal racist he was talking about so they’re all trying to preemptively excuse themselves with these “innocently wondering what a child will look like isn’t racist!” pieces. But I also think that since they’ve all said racist things, and are all worried that the racist thing they said was the worst racist thing, they’re tattling on each other. William is offering this story up hoping that everyone will accept it and go “yep, that’s it, it was Charles. Charles is the royal racist. Now that we know, we don’t need to dig anymore,” so that his racist thing doesn’t get outed. And someone else tried to do the same thing with Anne earlier too. They’re all so stupid. Harry said he wasn’t ever going to reveal who said it or what exactly was said. But they’re all jumping in to tell on themselves so they can “get ahead of the story” and excuse themselves by painting themselves in an innocent light and Harry and Meghan in an “overreacting” light.
Just like they did pre-Oprah where they told a bunch of naughty things that they did and then tried to say they *had to* do these mean and naughty things because Meghan was just so intolerable, such a bully. And then Harry and Meghan didn’t even mention the things that the royals were preemptively trying to excuse themselves for. They do this sort of crap all the time. Just be quiet! Only engage with the press when you want to promote a good thing you are doing! And do a bunch of good things so you have a lot of positive self content to feed the press. It’s not that hard. It’s what every other company in the world has figured out when it comes to their PR. You don’t see other “firms” running to the press to tell them that they did something very bad but it was totally justified and here’s why. They wait until the very bad thing they did comes out….and it usually doesn’t, anyways, because it’s in the best interest of the firm to NOT have all the managers and board members talking sh*t publicly about each other.
Agreed, Tiger—William was the one really pushing this.
Bingo!
+1.
I know and really how incredibly racist is your family when there’s no obvious person who could have said the racist thing? There are so many racists everyone is equally suspect!
Exactly. They’re all the royal racists. Maybe not Eugenie. But definitely Charles, the queen, Camilla, William, Kate, Andrew (who “joked” about the N-word with a political POC, just like his dad) , Princess Michael, Anne and her kids, Edward and that kiss-ass priss Sophie, all of them. Overt or covert racists. The proof is in how they treated Meghan. Not just paintings of Black slave children when welcoming the only Black US president to their home or wearing a glamorized slave brooch to meet Meghan, but in ignoring and bad-mouthing and ostracizing her to the point of suicidal ideation and driving her to leave the country. Racist AF.
I will always believe it was William simply based on what Harry said in the Oprah interview. Despite pulling the security from them, Harry still wanted to heal his relationship with Charles. That says a lot. But the matter of the racist skin remarks, Harry was clearly disgusted with that person, and I can’t imagine it would be the same person he confirmed wanting to still have a relationship with. Logically, it was most likely William. The way that Harry dismissed the subject of William in that sit down spoke volumes.
@L84Tea: I view Harry’s comment about Charles in the same way as Meghan’s about Kate being good person. Certain things you just don’t say on camera.
But for it’s the confirming out loud that he wanted to heal his relationship with Charles. That’s specifically what makes me think it wasn’t him. But at the end of the day, who knows!
I think in the interview with Oprah and TMYCS and Armchair Expert, its clear that Harry was hurt by his father’s actions and that he was working through that anger and hurt. He was very clear that he was working on the relationship and that he wanted to heal it though, and his emotions were very different when talking about his father vs talking about William.
When Harry talked about William, he talked about him like someone that you have cut off from your life. I did not get the impression there is any kind of relationship there anymore or that Harry wants one.
@Amy Bee, the difference there is that Meghan simply had no other choice but to speak well of Kate. A black woman speaking ill of a coddled, pampered and PROTECTED white woman? I think we all know exactly what would have happened had she simply spoken the truth about how Kate was a total bitch to her from day one. Harry, on the other hand, had more license to be a bit more free with his truth. I believe him when he all but said he was willing to work things out with his dad down the road, but that he and William were “space”. He said he would never name the royal racist, but if you read between the lines….the only person he would need “space” from is the person who would say such vile things about his child and wife.
If in fact it turns out that William does have secret children from outside the marriage, I can see Meghan having the emotional bandwidth to understand that Kate probably wasn’t in her right mind at some points. That’s not to say that I totally disagree with you; Kate has made her decisions to hurt Meghan and Harry as much as possible, but I think Meghan can excuse parts. Harry and Meghan and Kate and William know the timeline in a way we never will.
Harry seems sad and disappointed in Charles and the status of their relationship. He seems angry with William and does not seem eager to try to repair their relationship.
Charles did something but William did something far worse. Maybe something Harry has yet to reveal? Who knows
That’s also the way I read it. I think that whatever Charles may or may not have said about Archie, Harry probably wrote him off years ago as out-of-touch and peculiar. I think Harry might be frustrated with his father for being stodgy and old-fashioned, but I also got the sense that his expectations for Charles are so low that nothing his father could say would break his heart at this point.
On the other hand, I always got the impression that, whatever their differences, William and Harry had a sort of informal pact to support each other over the years. Harry might not like Kate or the other Middleton’s, but he never spoke out against any of them because he viewed them as an extension of his brother. But I think that once Meghan came into the picture, Harry quickly realized their deal was entirely one-sided, and that William is only looking out for William. I think William and Kate would have positioned themselves and their press office against whomever Harry married, but I think everything about Meghan (her race, her beauty, her work ethic) agitated the hell out of them. And I think it flared up in racism and all sorts of garbage.
I also think that H&M were quite strategic about which royals they mentioned favorably in the Oprah interview. I think those were breadcrumbs for hard core royal watchers like us. William is the only one none of them mentioned by name. And in the James Corden interview, Corden makes an off-hand joke/reference to William and Harry just gives him a “look”.
It’s definitely William.
Multiple conversations were had with harry where concerns were expressed. That is what harry and meghan said in the oprah interview.
I highly doubt this charles/ camilla conversation even happened. Although i don’t doubt he said some racist nonsense later.
I asked a Squaddie to send me the interview a week ago as I had only watched a half of it as I don’t have CBS and my internet went down during the watch party. my conclusion is that plans were afoot not to give Archie a title as Prince when Charles is King by changing the King George Convention so he does not automatically become one, which is what would happen if Charles is King now. The reason for same has to do with his skin colour, that is why when Oprah in essence asked Meghan what she think the reason for this is, she told the story about Harry being asked what the kids would look like potentially AND WHAT IT WOULD MEAN. Meghan even asked the rhetorical question WHY Archie? the answer is obvious
I agree with those who said William was the one who said it to Harry in person, but they were all talking about it, he was only the one who bell the cat, that is why Harry only excluded the Queen and Prince Phillip. Harry said the relationship with William is space and that time will heal the relationship HOPEFULLY. The HOPEFULLY is a red flag for me. That is why I think William is the one who approached him but they are all guilty.
There were rumors about the change before Harry was even dating Meghan though. Charles has wanted to slim down the monarchy for awhile. Other Royal family’s are also doing this. The Swedish King stripped titles from his grandchildren in the same way. The decision isn’t based on racism. I do think that some royals and courtiers expressed relief that this was the plan due to the children’s skin color though. Oprah also kinda pushed Meghan towards saying it was 100% racism. Meghan was trying to explain, but Oprah wanted the emotional answer not the whole picture.
@Ainsley – disagree, I don’t think Oprah pushed Meghan towards saying it was racism. Meghan was already talking about the change in titles and security and THEN brought up the skin color conversation. If anything, I thought it was clear that Meghan thought the decision was based on racism.
If they were going to change the convention before Harry was with Meghan, they absolutely could have. The time of William’s wedding would have been the perfect opportunity to do so – announce that the heir and his children would all be HRHs (or even just the heir’s heir, that would have been simpler) and that no children of Prince Harry would be HRH and that would be the rule going forward – so only the children of William’s oldest child would be HRH, etc.
But that’s not what they did. when kate was pregnant, they changed the rules to make William’s children HRH before they were otherwise entitled to it, so I think its completely fair for Meghan to question why they were going to change the rules to take away something from Archie when they “gave more” to the Cambridge children.
And even though you say that the “decision isn’t based on racism” its clear that both Meghan and Harry thought that racism played a big role, and that there was surprise that they were talking about taking away Archie’s HRH when Charles was king. If that had always been the plan, even before Harry was ever with Meghan, I don’t think either Harry or Meghan would have been so upset about it.
@Ainsley, if the decision wasn’t based on racism as you claim, then at the VERY LEAST it was mind-numbingly stupid of them to not see how it would be interpreted that way. But it was absolutely racist at the heart of it. Of that, I have no doubt. This move has supposedly been “in the works” but it only shifts into high gear when the first multi-racial child is born into the BRF? Please. We love to talk about optics around here and the optics of this one, whatever the basis of it is, is horrific.
Charles was talking about slimming down the monarchy for years but if it had always been the plan to impact Harry’s family why wasn’t this ever reported before Harry married Meghan? Everything I’d seen since since the queens jubilee balcony back in 2011 was that the future of the slimmed down monarchy was Charles’ line including Harry& his wife. Never seen anything to indicate that Harry’s kids wouldn’t have titles.
And if this was always the plan why wasn’t this reported way before Harry got married? In fact before Archie was born was there was lots of speculation as to whether letter patents would be changed to make their child a Prince/princess so if it was always the plan for no titles as part of the slimmed down monarchy plan- surely the courtiers would have briefed this then.
@Ainsley, you fail to mention that the pre-Meghan discussions of slimming down the monarchy always included Harry and whoever his spouse would be. This was the repeated refrain regarding that matter, even in those early days of Harry and Meghan’s relationship being public. It’s only when it became clear that Harry was serious about Meghan that the commentary shifted to ‘heirs only’.
Ainsley, pre-Meghan there was never any talk of changing the convention such that Harry’s children would not be HRH prince/ess. There was none. The talk was strictly about slimming the monarchy down to Charles, his sons, and their eventual wives and families.
Slimming down the monarchy meant excluding Andrew and Edward and their families. Charles had no intention of ever excluding his children. And if we look to the people on the balcony at the jubilee in 2012 we see The Queen, Philip, Charles, Camilla, William, Kate and Harry.
Harry and his future spouse were always a part of the plan and it is rewriting history to suggest otherwise.
Let’s not forget that Harry didn’t ask William to be his best man for his wedding until the last minute. I think that Harry wanted to have one of his friends, someone who was supportive of his relationship but was told that he had to pick William.
@Harla: I believe that too.
I agree with this, I think he was absolutely told it had to be William. Can you imagine if it hadn’t been?!?!
I agree and William forced his hand by telling the press he has not asked him yet. I was surprised when he said it
@HARLA
That is not correct, when willy told harry in the church on a remembrance service, willy told harry he should have asked him. Harry said I asked you along time ago.
So go back and review the videos, the one where willy appeared to fall asleep, but faking. Willie probably was told how awkward it would look, as harry was his best man. Willy did not want to stand up for harry, not originally. When viewing listen to their exchange.
Let’s face it, the whole family was racist towards Meghan and Harry and the attacks against her intensified when they announced that she was pregnant. The family didn’t believe that Meghan would get pregnant and that they would be able to get her out of the family very quickly by playing on Harry’s well-known desire to have children. Btw, Ricard Kay says that Charles won’t be able to sue Andersen because he’s protected by American law.
Yep. They ramped up the attacks to try and trigger a miscarriage. They thought they struck gold when they knew she was suicidal.
They are monsters. Let their kingdom crumble around their feet.
I have read this multiple times (that the family/Firm didn’t think Meghan would be able to get pregnant) and it still baffles me. She was what, 37-38? Women in their late 30s get pregnant ALL the time, especially now that a majority of women establish careers before settling down to have a family. It’s not like she was 45 years old! These people are complete ignoramuses with no idea how anything works outside of their insular bubble.
They still live in the last century. Evolving just ain’t the Royal way.
It’s bizarre isn’t it? Especially since their FFQ, who’s only a few months younger than Meghan, had just given birth earlier that year. I wonder if it’s not that they didn’t think she would get pregnant so much as they didn’t think she’d get pregnant so soon. That was the implication in those stories about them being so dismayed by her first pregnancy: it happened rather quickly in their eyes. I think they were hoping expecting that she would either have difficulty getting pregnant or that she and Harry would wait a while like Will and Kate did, which is stupid because each couple got married at different stages in their lives. Of course Harry and Meghan were going to prioritize starting their family. Either way, they were definitely hoping to push her out without her having a permanent tie to the family.
@Beach Dreams, you’re right. What horrified them was the fact that she got pregnant as soon as she did — because that dashed any hopes of shooing her out the door quietly and with little fuss. So much for their disgusting “degree wife” plans.
Sophie also had her children much later too. And yes kate being the same age as Meghan was never called geriatric when she was pregnant with Louis.
My sister got pregnant immediately after re-marrying at the same age, 37. She had two daughters from a previous marriage. She was thrilled, as was her new mother-in-law who I think was a little worried because my sister’s husband was her oldest child, her second said he never wanted kids (he never did have them) and the third was not yet married. But there was no need, as it turned out.
Sure, some women have trouble conceiving at that age. Some don’t. Some women struggle even in their 20s. How could they be so clueless as to think it wouldn’t happen? Didn’t QE2 have two kids in her thirties? Princess Margaret married relatively late for that era, but she had two with no issues as I recall.
So stupid.
It’s interesting how the stories in the mainstream media have subtly been pulling into a more neutral zone. Definitely likewarm tea, but not pro-Cambridge or pro-Cornwall. It really does seem like the shift we’ve all been waiting for here is happening. Getting my popcorn ready in 3 – 2 – 1…..
I think you’re right Shawna. There seems to be a shift in attitude with a more critical approach to the Cambridges.
This is my new , I’m old name is cathy and I predict correctly on many royal f€ckery. Here is my prediction
#Tigger warning #
1. Lilibet christening mostly likely wont happen in UK if it happens either or both charles and William skipping it .
2. Queen might likely go around next year or beginning of 2023( again timing is fluid in tarot ).
3. William will get rid of Kate after queen gone. For william new bride ( again and again I heard russian . She some what have Russian blood . But I dont think either she or her parents directly connect to russia meaning born . She might comes from former soviet union or slavic block who has some sort of Russian. )
4. As for Kate she won’t see anyone sooner .
5. After queen gone brf will completely restructure and appeal to younger generation. Many working royals will left out.
6. As for harry and Meghan , they are twin flames. If anyone who dont what is twinflame means it is soul they get dividend into two halves. They mirror eachother and Sussex are not soulmates. Because soulmates when they comes into union their relationship will be smooth no drama and no lesson. But when a twin flames comes into union so many things trigger withing eachother. That’s why harry sort of woken up to his family and things in general . Same for Meghan how to be strong internally like etc. As for their ending it’s up to them because in some union both go through transformation and be together and in some they part away.
7.when queen died Charles has some plan like a job to harry ( idk what , my spirit doesnt allow me to know further)
8. William and kate neither soulmate or twinflame . They are more like platonic friends got married because they have no one. ( in my countries we call left over men and woman it’s a cruel name for people who cant find partner on their own).
As for anyone looking for soulmate union , you have to go through transformation alone which is better than twinflame teaching you. There are many videos on youtube to go through transformation. After transformation is like hell , you get come out much better person and you will find your true soulmate where no drama just peaceful life.
All these for reading for entertainment purposes only…
There’s no way they can pin “royal racist” on the men in gray. If some minion expressed “concerns” to Harry and those “concerns” weren’t echoed by the RF, then they could have shut down that talk.
As for the rest – I’ve been saying the underlying problem is that Will doesn’t like Harry. He’d be an incandescent bitch no matter who Harry married.
I also don’t see Harry taking the word of “men in gray” seriously for something like this. If he heard rumors that his dad was wondering about the children, he would have gone to his father and had a face-to-face conversation.
I’m not saying Charles never had a conversation like the one described in the book. There were probably many, with all the family members at various points.
I’m just saying that convo at the breakfast table is not what Harry was referring to on Oprah.
Exactly. That conversation is entirely expected, considering the RF and its history. But when it comes to “men in gray” expressing concerns directly to Harry, they just wouldn’t do that on their own (if they did it at all). Plus, what does that even mean? Concerns how? What could anybody do about it?
I think this guy is right about that: Will and Harry aren’t close buddies and Will has been jealous and overbearing for years.
I imagine C&C have plenty of servants around when they are eating. I don’t picture them serving and clearing up and Charles probably doesn’t even pay attention to their presence. They could have had a conversation repeated among the servants easily. I could picture the “men in gray”or more likely William using the info to take it as Charles agreeing with his view and repeating to Harry.
If this little breakfast conversation did happen and Camilla or Head Butler #1 at Clarence House or Highgrove is Anderson’s contact … who cares? It is not the encounter that Harry is referring to in the Oprah interview. It’s not the conversation about changing the George V letters patent to remove Archie’s titles. The media is purposely misdirecting and minimizing the triggering conversations about Archie’s skin color that someone (my vote is William) said to Harry’s face.
Agree with you @harper about the overall minimization of the racism. It’s literally being turned into a cute little patronizing story.
@harper Agree. Clear manipulation. Like: “Look, it’s nothing – just small insignificant talk at dinner table. Nothing serious – definitely not racism”.
Bullsh-t.
I think that Charles appeared very happy to walk Meghan down the aisle. It does not mean he is perfect but he showed warmth at some point for Meghan and for Archie. The brother though never did once appear to acknowledge them unless forced to by questions. He also is very very and persistently colonialist about his right to have Africa not ruined by the very people living there whom, again, he just completely ignored.
Charles was also chivalrous to Doria. When they were going to sign the register as witnesses Doria hesitated to step down in front of Charles and Charles offered his hand to help her down and guided her through the door. He also offered his arm and escorted her at the end of the service.
Meghan’s father is a total embarrassment but her mother is a lovely lady.
This. My best guess is that Charles asked out of cluelessness, which Harry read as concern, and may even have been able to let him know why that was offensive. William just said some flat out completely racist shit, and pulled a “But what about Dad?” garbage when called on it.
Silly willy is the culprit on the skin color thing, full stop. That’s all I got on that issue.
I’ve always maintained that Will flipped out when Meg got pregnant. And used racial slurs. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back for H and he hasn’t forgiven or forgotten.
I think Willie flipped out but it was before the wedding. The pregnancy announcement just sent things into overdrive.
Agreed. I think Tom Bradby alluded to things getting particularly nasty leading up to the wedding. Maybe William realized he couldn’t derail the wedding and finally let his ugly show.
Instead of yet another royal tell-all, I’d love a detailed expose of the skullduggery of the Men in Grey.
It would have to be in volumes. That stuff goes back centuries.
Pretty soon Bulliam, Chuck and the Monarchy will need Harry and Meghan’s good graces to help them repair their reputation.
Why would they need their good graces in future if they’re not doing it now? These people do not care and everything revealed about them is just terrible. I just find them so disgusting. The Sussexes left, yet they are still coming after them and will never leave them alone. They go hard in the press on them, then at the same time mimic everything they do. They have a scorched earth policy and they are obsessively fixated on Meghan. These people are beyond dysfunctional. They may be a constitutional monarchy in a so-called democracy but it’s just a veneer they tolerate. Where they are concerned, it might as well be the 16th century and they will chase their enemies into exile. If the Sussexes go onto bigger and better things, the harassment will get worse.
William was feeling the heat. The “multiple sources” are from his circle and he asked them to point the finger at Charles. Speculation only, of course.
I’m sure the entire family was snickering and disparaging Meghan behind her back from day one, and I can only imagine how awful some of the so-called “private” conversations about her must have been. When she showed how smart, hard-working, compassionate and charismatic she was they piled on her even more. The snobbery gene runs deep in that family and they treated her like she was some jumped up parvenu instead of a fantastic asset to the monarchy. The conversations about Archie’s skin colour must have been a trigger for William and I imagine he finally took a cheap shot at Harry about it which brought the whole house of cards down. I hope the subtle shade the tabloids and rota rats are starting to spread continues and turns into a tsunami of irrefutable information against that hideous family.
I’m biracial and married to a ginger, and because my mom is also ginger there is a broad range of possibilities for how our kids will look. We’ve had discussions about what our kids will look like – will they be brown? White? Will they turn red in the sun like my husband? Have dark hair and eyes? Blue eyes and red hair? I think the curiosity is natural. But the difference is that our curiosity comes with zero preference – when we speculate about our future children’s skin color we are not hoping they’re a certain skin color. We are excited for however they turn out!
No one really believes Charles was genuinely curious and excited for how his grandchild would turn out. And if he was just genuinely curious and had never said/done anything else offensive, Harry would not be so livid. It seems pretty clear that Charles said it in a *GASP* “my pure white British bloodline is getting polluted” way.
So when are Eugenie and Jack moving to Montecito with August? I know she will never break away from her mother and father (I can’t imagine being in her shoes and having to reconcile with her father’s actions towards women and being Epstein’s BFF) but at least Harry has one friend in that family.
I feel bad for Eugenie in that regard. She really seemed to have an interest in supporting organizations working against sex trafficking and sex slavery, but with the father she has she can no longer do anything publicly to support the cause without blowback.
She’s the only one I could see actually visiting them.
This is a mess. And it’s only going to get worse after the old girl passes away. I cannot imagine what things will be like when Charles is king. The only thing I can imagine is the whole institution falling in on itself.
Here’s my tinfoil tiara conspiracy theory.
Charles did express curiosity of what the kids would look like, possibly in an offhanded way (“I wonder if any of the children will have red hair” maybe) William reported to Harry “Are you sure this is a good idea? What are the optics here? Even Dad is CONCERNED about what your kids will look like!/Everyone is concerned what your kids will look like, even Dad.” Charles is not blameless but I think as far as the racist comments, they came from William with him trying to drag Charles in for back up. (Charles was too busy not commenting/protecting everywhere else)
I don’t think who said it is the issue – the whole family is racist. What I recall Meghan saying is that revealing who said it *would be damaging for the monarchy* – and that could only be William. He’s Diana’s firstborn, the golden boy, he’s supposed to be the opposite of his unpopular, dull as dishwater father, and take the monarchy into the modern era. Nobody cares about Charles, even though he will be more competent than William. Charles’ reign will be bedeviled with problems anyway, no-one has high expectations, hence all the ‘bypass Charles’ articles. Add in all the other elements that most posters above mentioned, taking away Archie’s birthright, which betrayal would cut Harry the deepest hence the need for space, which significant royal was notably absent from the conversation with Oprah, and you’ve got your answer.
That’s exactly it. Charles has already gone through the ringer for the cheating on Diana and finding out a 70 some prince of wales asked a question about the colour of the baby is not the same as the 40 year old millennial future future king who is not of a generation where being that racist is the norm.
Wasn’t Charles the one who arranged for the black choir to be at the wedding? He’s been going to black commonwealth countries for years and he is very political and understands the optics. Compare this to tbe Christening photo. It says it all.
I would never join the royal family. They backstabbing is incredible they could make a show better than any one out there so far. The amount of planning they do to get each other & ahead is incredible. If only they were that efficient in their jobs🤔
The anger about Meghan getting pregnant so soon after her wedding-I saw this statement not in a tabloid-Harry told a close friend before the wedding he and Meghan decided not to wait on having children-wedding night gets the ball rolling-any protection they were using before the wedding Harry said we are throwing that stuff away-they both wanted to start their family as soon as possible-so any idea this was all Meghan’s idea-it was both of them deciding to begin their family-now put that in your pipe and smoke it. What ever their reasons for starting a family early after the wedding was planned by Harry and Meghan.