I would have hoped that in the year of our lord Beyonce 2022, we would be done with pearl-clutching over religious imagery? Getting mad about the monetization of specifically Catholic imagery has been done before. People got so mad at Madonna. People still get mad at fashion designers for “misappropriating” crosses and images of the Virgin Mary and such. But here we are – people are in their feelings about Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker’s Portofino wedding. What offended me about the wedding is that it was sponsored by Dolce & Gabbana. That alone is tacky as hell, but it’s especially galling because Stefano Gabbana and Domenico Dolce are racist AF and problematic AF. But sure, let’s talk about Kourtney’s Virgin Mary veil.
Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker are being called out for “mocking” Catholicism with their lavish Italian wedding ceremony. While saying “I do” on Sunday, the reality star wore a white Dolce & Gabbana mini dress with a dramatic veil, which was emblazoned with the image of the Virgin Mary – a nod to a tattoo her new husband has inked on the top of his head.
While Barker, 46, has spoken publicly about his ties to the Catholic faith, it’s unclear whether Kardashian, 43, is a member of the church. However, the Poosh founder has shared plenty of texts about faith, quotes and Bible passages via her Instagram Stories over the years.
“Kinda weird that kourtney [sic] wedding is like this catholic ‘aesthetic’ like the Virgin Mary on her dress and her wedding veil ??” one person wrote on Twitter. A second added, “I just really feel like Travis & Kourtney [sic] wedding is mocking the catholic religion? They don’t symbolize religious people at all, just feels like mockery. I’m not catholic but just doesn’t sit right with me.”
Another fan said they were “happy” for the newlyweds, but argued that “liturgical garments used during mass are not something fashionable.”
One person even said they were “offended” by Kardashian’s short gown. “I’m just going to say it point blank. Kourtney Kardashian’s use of the Blessed Mother in her outfit(s) during her wedding weekend was extremely offensive to me as a Catholic … I have a right to feel offended by it,” they wrote on Twitter.
Barker, for his part, previously told Vice he was raised Catholic. “I got the Virgin Mary tattooed on my foreman when I was 18, 19. And I was brought up Catholic,” he said in a November 2015 interview. “I definitely pray; I believe in God. I definitely think I was blessed … So I’m not at church every day and I’m not pushing religion on people. But I believe in God and I pray and my kids pray.”
I mean… Travis was not dressed as the pope! Kourtney wasn’t wearing a nun’s habit. Are Catholics really bothered by this? Kourtney’s Mary veil was actually based on one of Travis’s tattoos. All of their wedding clothes were made by “good Catholics” Dolce & Gabbana. While I didn’t care for Kourtney’s wedding dress either, that was mostly because I hoped she would at least go slightly more traditional. This is her first real wedding, after all. Then again, I thought everyone in that family looked tacky as hell.
Photos courtesy of Backgrid, Instagram.
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- Portofino, ITALY – Newlyweds Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker walking to their yacht ahead of their wedding in Portofino, Italy for a family lunch. Pictured: Kourtney Kardashian , Travis Barker BACKGRID USA 21 MAY 2022 BYLINE MUST READ: Justine Walpole / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Portofino, ITALY – Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker get married in Portofino. Pictured: Kourtney Kardashian, Travis Barker BACKGRID USA 22 MAY 2022 BYLINE MUST READ: Cobra Team / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Portofino, ITALY – Kourtney Kardashian and Travis Barker get married in Portofino. Pictured: Kourtney Kardashian, Travis Barker BACKGRID USA 22 MAY 2022 BYLINE MUST READ: Cobra Team / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
I am Catholic and it never even crossed my mind.
Same. I just thought it was all tacky as hell. Like, Damn yall!
Tacky, but not blasphemy. I’m offended from a fashion sense from everything this family wears. As a half in/ half out catholic, specifically? Not offended. It’s just without class for that ceremony imo.
My only addendum is that the particular image they chose is *very* similar to Latin American depictions of the Virgin of Guadalupe and the Mary on the veil as well (though less so) – I didn’t really care at first but some of my friends from those regions felt more strongly about it.
Agreed. The images are the same as you’d see all over East LA and tattooed on men and women for protection. It’s a cultural thing. The deep-gangland people in my family have La Virgin de Guadalupe tats, and my sister was born on the day that the Virgin is honored. She and I are recovering Catholics, so we don’t care, lol. Be tacky, Kourtney and Travis! Some of us know what you were trying to do. Execution was flawed, but it’s not my wedding, lol!!
I’m white as Wonder bread but I grew up in a largely Puerto Rican and Domincan enclave so I have seen many, many Virgin de Guadalupe items in my day and my church growing up had huge celebrations for it.
I mean, I’m a recovering Catholic too and we have bigger fish to fry in the church but yeah, SO tacky.
Like when those brides from SYTTD get super see-through gowns and then get married in a Catholic church; Long Island’s priests must be SO easy going. Lol.
I can see being offended by what is, essentially, cultural appropriation, but then that family does that so often I can’t really see why yet another example of it is so shocking to anyone.
I was raised Catholic and to me that wedding outfit felt disrespectful to the sincerely held beliefs of many, especially in Italy.
But I blame D&G – she clearly wore what she was given, and they have been making money over fist while using the Catholic religion as a prop for years.
I was raised in a conservative, traditional Italian Catholic family and community and educated in Catholic institutions from pre-K through college, and this would absolutely be outraging to the majority of them. Not just outraging but seen as a sacrilegious act. Especially considering they got married specifically in the land that houses Vatican City, other numerous holy locations, and the special place the virgin mother holds for Roman Catholics. She is revered just a level below of Jesus himself.
This is essentially the Catholic equivalent of getting married in Saudi Arabia while wearing a dress depicting the prophet Muhammad.
Or being married in Israel wearing a giant star of David or a depiction of Abraham on your dress, without being Jewish.
We all know what the reaction to those two scenarios would be. There’s absolutely no way to rationalize this away as anything but the same kind of act. Especially considering the biblical and Catholic significance on iconolatry, this carries extremely offensive significance.
(Note- I’m no longer a practicing Catholic, left the faith over the pedophilia scandal, and pretty much hate the church. But this is simply fact as to how practicing Catholics who are extremely devout would see this. I can’t change that, it’s just the reality.)
I love how we’re all ending our posts with “I mean, I’m not Catholic anymore but…”
Tells you something about the direction the Church has been going in, that’s for sure.
Ha, actually would be many times worse in Saudi bc 1) depictions of people in Islam is verbotten. 2) they would just kill you in Saudi
So one of my degrees is in Religion and I think that people sometimes forget that the Orthodox faiths and the Armenian Church have very similar iconography, garments, ceremonies, etc. to Catholicism. It’s all Christian and much of it is not just similar, but so much the same as to be interchangeable. For example, if a Catholic can only get to a Greek Orthodox service, that could “count”.
Most would be hard-pressed to tell the difference via a handful of photo images from a ceremony or the inside of one of the churches. They would look almost the same. For example, Kourtney’s kids were baptized in the Armenian Church and it looked like a Catholic Church. So a few people on twitter are jumping to a big conclusion.
Who knows what the ceremony was or was meant to represent. And you know who probably wouldn’t care at all? Jesus! Who, by the way, was Jewish.
@Anonymous, I’m sorry but this just isn’t true. This is just you assuming your knowledge gained via degree materials, field trips and book study is equivalent or better than the actual lived lives of those communities and their worship, iconography and experience which are completely different to people who actually are knowledgeable in a way that isn’t book-based. Not everything is theory and not everything can be aced in an academic setting. You’re just applying your generalized overview to practises and iconography that you are unfamiliar with and it comes across as puritan colonialism, tbh.
Anony83– Absolutely, I just wanted to make it clear my explanation was not supportive, I do not support the Church in any way, was not capping for them in this comment. I am repulsed by it. I don’t even care what anyone does with religious imagery personally. (I am more agnostic than personally anything too.) Just explaining there really are lots of Catholics who are still this level of seriously orthodox. Overseas, even more so, especially in countries where Catholicism is woven into the culture. (Like Italy.)
I myself have left the church for exactly all the reasons mentioned in many a comment here.
The ones who complained about the virgin mary depiction should have a louder opinion on all the agressions on children, on the death of the children in their schools, from the real reprensentatives of the church who were responsible for the massacres and trauma they caused. Im gonna let Kourtney and Travis live their best lives with the tattoos dresses and veils they wanted for THEIR wedding.
This is superficial outrage. And why don’t they go after D&G? They are problematic as heck and all these celebs are promoting them and working with them because of $$. It made me so sad to see the Queen B promoting them.
Amen, duchessl. Im not catholic, but I did go to catholic school and my husband was catholic. I cannot tell you the traumas I got from that school and the abuse I endured from these holy “nuns”. And that’s not even related to the cover up of the church of all the child sex abuse. Kourtney k’s tacky wedding should be the least of any Catholic’s worries.
I’m a lapsed Catholic but I still didn’t like the Madonna image on the dress. Sat wrong with me.
Nah, Christians should have thought about appropriation before forcing their faith on everyone, sending missionaries everywhere, influencing public policy and forcing their views on us. Now it’s too late, women enjoying a Virgin Mary veil with a mini dress is a small price to pay for all the BS we had to suffer because of them
+1
So well said!
The dresses were ugly AF but maybe Catholics who are offended by this should save their fury for the Catholic Church receiving $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to huge settlements or bankruptcy protection for dioses because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups. TBH, Kourtney’s wedding aesthetic is one of the least controversial/problematic things involving the Catholic church.
Right? The Kardashians offended Italy with their tackiness overall and I get that. But every time I read an article about Catholics being offended about something trivial, it’s time to remind them about the rampant pedophilia problem that is still ongoing.
Truly.
Newsflash- many Catholics are offended and actively working to dispels those people from the church.
Because of course ALMOST ALL of the actual pedophilia victims here were CATHOLIC themselves.
Don’t be a bigot under the guise of pretending to care for victims of horrific child rapes while insulting their faith at the same time. Most still remain practicing Catholics. So this repulsive. You’re literally slurring the people hurt here.
Also feel free to condemn the similar issues in Islam or Judaism, you curiously let them out. When absolutely all faiths and denominations have this problem. Because you know it’s like a institutional power issue. As evident by the occurrence in other places like the Boy Scouts. That’s either very suspect selective memory or you know again kind of bigoted.
Seriously the entire fact this is a epidemic is disgusting enough, adding to it by also using it to fuel selective bigotry is repulsive. It’s exploitative of the victims themselves, yet again.
And I literally say this as a person who left Catholicism over this issue. Just stop.
Oh FFS no one is talking about Judaism or Islam or the BoyScouts because that wasn’t the subject of this post –but your whataboutism is duly noted.
And your faux outrage, your liberal use of the word “bigotry” to distract from the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church is ALSO duly noted.
And yes, I am DISGUSTED and will continue to be disgusted that my tax dollars went to settle lawsuits because too many Catholic priests can’t keep their hands off of children.
TAX. THE. CHURCH.
HeyJude- Right, so sorry I left out Islam, Judaism and the Boy Scouts. On a post about the Kardashians and Catholicism.
Jules absolutely. Exporting tacky is annoying, but their problems are so much worse. They need to fix their own house before criticizing others.
The Kardashians love playing the “be mad at me for something I did” game. It gets them so much attention. They live for this ! Just like they fly around in private jets (even for a 30 minute ride) and then lecture about the planet and how to save it lol. It’s all to make us mad and talk about them. Kim’s new Beyond Meat commercial is a prime example of that.
This!
Exactly, kitten. Their panties are in a bunch over iconography instead of real suffering. Typical.
I’m just going to say – this iconography is the specific issue BECAUSE it comes from Latin America and not simply because it is Catholic – so this is a literal religious symbol widely used by the people who may have suffered some of the worst abuses by Catholics – though many remain extremely devout.
The problem isn’t the Church, the problem is the origin of the images for anyone who knows not just what they symbolize but the culture it is inextricably linked to.
This is a very good point. It is cultural appropriation.
Exactly right. This is misappropriation. Not liking the Catholic Church doesn’t make it not misappropriation. Criticize/condemn on the merits, by all means, but let’s not pretend this is something other than it is.
Criticism of religion’s abuse is always valid, especially when it’s coming from one who does not use sexual assault to either shame young people for setting boundaries with that institution, or to mock young celebrities for having and sharing #MeToo stories. +1000 Kitten.
The dress is trashy and inappropriate for a wedding. I’m Catholic and dgaf about any offenses or whatever, but that dress isn’t doing her any favors.
Exactly! It looks like the undergarment and she forgot her dress LOL
Agreed! I was raised Catholic but I am more offended at the fit of this dress! It really is so unflattering on her.
I didn’t mind the ultra short skirts (except for the diaper effect of her wedding dress, that was hideous) if she had balanced them with higher necklines. One or the other. But the excess of badly fitting boobage AND the short skirts made her look undressed the whole weekend, which was probably the point.
Yes, many Catholics find this offensive. Some don’t. Misappropriation is misappropriation whether or not you like or support the target of the misappropriation. But, hey, people are talking, so mission accomplished.
@Tyle you are 100% correct, but most people here hate Christianity and it’s teachings, so it’s open season on any of its followers and beliefs.
troll?
Ah yes, Christians are the true victims of American society. Not the rape victim who is forced to carry her rapist’s child because a minority of religious wack jobs think it’s their God-given right to control a woman’s body. Nope! It’s the Christians who are so oppressed and treated so poorly.
Miss me with your victimhood BS right now–seriously.
So true. It’s fine to offend Christians. Can’t believe the nastiness of the posts aimed at HeyJude.
The wedding was tacky but I didn’t hate it! The venue amazing.
They are confusing Catholic beliefs with those of the evangelicals. Night and day. And as a Catholic and a Latin American, I am a little offended. And the fact that some people have taken advantage of their power within an organization does not take my right away to feel offended.
There are people (famous and not) from all kinds of religions who are pro-choice, who avoid making fun of suffering that have cost people lives and loved ones, and who try to avoid promoting anything that smacks of rape-myth acceptance or anti-LGBTQ propaganda. They’re awesome. The way people handle slip-ups and harm they’ve caused in those areas goes a long way in separating them from the type they don’t want to be confused for.
No, cultural appropriation is a lot about power dynamics. Christians are not a persecuted minority who had their culture “misappropriated”. The Catholic Church has been trying to force their dogmas and principles to everyone and their uncle for centuries, They have been forcefeeding people their culture. When you do that, you are not in a position to complain when people turn around and use these cultural elements out of context or in a way that you do not approve.
And btw of course I do not hate Christianity or its teachings by no means.
Catholicism and Christianity are not just made up of white Americans and Europeans though. The misappropriation here is specifically related Latin American tradition, not Catholicism as a whole. Or would you not consider Latinx people are also not a persecuted minority? Because that’s the position your staking out here.
I honestly don’t think most Catholics would care, but almost all of the ones who do are probably POC. Just FYI.
Christians have indeed been persecuted in many ways in many different places over many centuries and still are today in many parts of the world. Who gets to decide what constitutes a “persecuted minority” in need of protection from misappropriation and what doesn’t? Does it vary with time and location? Or the wind? Or whether you like the target of the persecution? Or whether they’re a perfect victim? For me, personally, I would never cosplay another religion’s iconography and I would never be comfortable telling someone they shouldn’t be offended if their iconography is cosplayed. FWIW these are also visitors in a Catholic country.
@Tyle: So now the Catholic church is comparable to an imperfect victim? Smh. This argument is in and of itself an example of misappropriation. You really don’t see how being pissed that someone wore a religious symbol to their wedding is different from a woman being beaten or worse by her husband and blamed for it? The day all sane people can honestly say “Both outcomes would be equally tragic for a loved one. I can’t choose” is the day that’ll stop being a false equivalent.
Fundamentalists of every religion have problems with everything. Doesn’t matter if you’re Catholic, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, whatever. Fundamentalists are always angry and usually hateful. And fundamentalist Catholics are ascendant in the US, as clearly shown by Nancy Pelosi being banned from mass by her home diocese because she supports women not being second class citizens.
This. A kpop idol recently wore a necklace that said allah and the muslim fans were freaking out, I rolled my eyes at that too. I’m “Catholic” and don’t care about this ridiculous spectacle. I’m more offended by the tackiness than the religious appropriation. But I’m not a fundamentalist and basically only aesthetically Catholic at this point.
Why would you wear a necklace that says “Allah” if you’re not Muslim? I’m not Cathlolic and would never wear a necklace with a cross on it. Religion is not fashion. To some it’s sacred and meaningful.
i hate when people compare christianity and islam on this issue. idolatry is one of the main tenets of christianity. it is the opposite in islam. christian and catholic imagery is one of the main ways they ‘get the word out’ in missionary work. THEY put this imagery out in the world to be consumed and worshipped. so of course it’s going to be used and consumed by the general masses, because christians have been using it all as fashion accessories themselves for centuries. islam is the opposite-they do not used idolatry in their worship. wearing a necklace with the word allah on it is literally something no (or very very few) practicing muslim would ever do. that’s the difference.
Well as church going and practicing Catholic myself, I was not offended only because i view the K Klan as clueless and attention seeking. I don’t believe they were actually trying to be blasphemous they are just a walking circus at this point.
Good grief. The Catholic Church doesn’t have a copyright on the Virgin Mary. Their faith relates to her a particular way, but she’s not their private property.
And this is neither the first nor the last time a divorced man who was raised Catholic marries a never married woman of nebulous religious affiliation in a civil ceremony where they both looked tacky as hell. The tacky have always been among us, and Catholics have so many other things in their own house to clean up before this is worthy of attention.
Well she is an Armenian Orthodox ( who have 5 feast day for Mary every year)who attended Catholic schools , had her kids baptized at the Armenian version of the Vatican ,marrying the son of an Italian woman and her middle name is Mary
Not my gig but Orthodox treat Mary as a Saint
Ah, that makes complete sense then. I didn’t associate her with any particular set of religious views, but I also don’t follow her that closely!
It seems pretty obnoxious of Catholics to look at this and assume that this is something that belongs to them, especially since Catholics are not an oppressed or exploited group in the US and certainly not in Italy. I think Kourtney’s choices were ugly, but they’re not appropriative.
It was Kim who had two or three of her kids baptized in Armenia, not Kourtney. The Kardashians consider themselves Christian. They went to Christian schools of both the Presbyterian and Roman Catholic traditions. They used to have the paps ready to take pics of them attending Church but they don’t seem to do that anymore for some reason.
It was an affront to good taste fashion-wise. As to the religious aspect, only God can say it was offensive.
I was raised very Catholic. I’ll take Kourtney’s tacky get up over the decades upon decades of the sexual, physical and mental abuse inflicted on children by the Church. You do you, Kourtney.
This is the “more Catholic than the Pope crowd” who declare every part of Catholicism that doesn’t match their personal fantasy of Catholicism, usually very strict and heavy on the excommunication.
You can easily spot it because the targets are invariably Catholic themselves. They couldn’t care less about the outside world’s anti Catholicism, their aim is to define Catholicism as being only their hateful, self centered little patch of it.
Catholics should focus on the decades of sexual assault & physical perpetuated by their priest and nuns, instead of a tacky wedding not even performed in a catholic church. Hypocrites.
Yeah not to mention all the Indigenous children that were killed and buried in unmarked graves. Disgusting what they did to those poor kids and families. Taking away their religion/culture, brainwashing them to hate their own kind. Abusing them if they spoke their own language.
Cradle Catholic here and I’m more pissed that the archbishop of the San Francisco Diocese informed Nancy Pelosi that she couldn’t receive communion until she denounced abortion rights…that’s the shit that really pisses me the F off.
I’m lapsed catholic can’t support the church considering it’s many issues so the dress from the standpoint of being religiously offensive never crossed my mind but I can totally side eye ugly fashion lol
Didn’t the archbishop of SF get stopped for DUI a while back?
That veil photo is gorgeous, I’ll give them that. It was tacky, and not because of the catholic imagery. Also, reading that excerpt from the Page Six ‘article’… I am so tired of articles being a bunch of quotes from average joes on social media. What is this, the new ‘source’? It’s so annoying. I could read those on my own when I go to twitter, I don’t need some wanna be journalist compiling them for me. I think it’s lazy.
My apologies, I seem to be grumpy today. LOL
I’m Catholic, and while I’m not necessarily offended, I find it tacky and disrespectful, but what else do you expect from a Kardashian. I guess my question is would Muslims be offended if she were to have worn a hajib? Would it have been offensive if a non-Jewish man were to wear a yarmulke? I am inclined to say yes….. Honestly, I get a little offended by how critical this site is of Catholicism, but that’s the way it is. I mean, I still keep reading/commenting. There is a lot that can be changed within Catholicism, but we could say that about any religion, so don’t be mad/critical of me for defending my faith.
I agree with you. I am a foreigner, a not very practising catholic from another majorly catholic country, I think it has to be with (many? The most powerful?) catholics in the USA being very conservative and uniting with other reactionary churchy forces to stop things Americans have enjoyed. I don’t know. While this happens in the USA, the other countries are evolving to be more fair to women, despite our tremendous faults in government, etc.
I don’t think it’s exactly the same because Barker is Catholic, so it makes sense in that way. (Especially if they raise whatever children they have together in the Catholic tradition which seems likely.)
Practicing Catholic. Don’t care. I can’t imagine most Catholics do. Nothing about it was offensive.
Catholic here who also donates part of each of my paychecks to planned parenthood. I fully support anyone who does not choose to support a path that feel like the best fit for me, nor am I offended by Kourtney Kardashian.
I feel like a religion is a comfort that some people need and some people don’t. I grew up Catholic and while I still have many issues with the church and it’s practices and left for many years, it is where I feel most at peace and closest to my spirituality. I married a non-Catholic and I have zero desire for him to be baptized because it wouldn’t give him the same peace it gives me. Kourtney wearing this dress and veil doesn’t hurt me in any way nor diminish my faith. I feel that with everything happening right now with Ukraine and the formula shortage we have much larger issues to spend energy on.
Kidding right? Catholics are trying to make women into nothing more than livestock and you think they’re not gonna be upset about this lol surprised people aren’t talking more about the abuse against women in this country happening right now. I’m on my name is in the book of the Vatican for teaching children how to confess their sins. Full blown Catholic who denounced the church in 91 They diverted funds away from youth programs to defend proven pedophiliac priests in court.and I hold everybody who is still Catholic accountable for that choice. Y’all know what they’re doing. Zero passes
I am Catholic and I am offended by a lot of stuff but not this. I’m mostly just rolling my eyes at how much money was wasted to make this wedding as tacky and trashy as it was. I never even noticed the Virgin Mary on her veil until this article pointed it out to me. I’m guessing it’s probably the Catholics who are offended by everything since Vatican II who are bothered by this.
Maybe if the dress could cover her butt it would have been better
As a white Catholic, no. I’m more offended by what the church has done and continues to do. Pedophile priest hiding; its role in residential schools; treatment of women; treatment of anyone from the 2SLGBGTQ+ community. And, important to note, the institution of thr Catholic church and some Catholic imagery are separate. Much of Catholic imagery is distinctive to different cultures, Irish Catholic, for example. Many Latin American Catholics have experienced oppression so I can certainly empathize with the Latin American Catholic Imagery being appropriated and can’t possibly pretend I know what that feels like. The Catholic church is this powerhouse institution that has caused great harm in thr world BUT the faith and imagery within the complex system is diverse across the world culturally. If Latin American Catholics say this imagery is offensive to them, we need to hold space for that.
It’s more an Italian thing than just Catholic. Italians are very conservative when it comes to traditional images of faith and tourists are routinely asked to cover their shoulders and legs when visiting churches.
Similarly men would be asked to remove hats inside the Vatican etc.
I have to admit as a Southern European, my first thought was the locals would have been shocked by the religious cosplaying. It’s a culture thing.
( Not condoning the church in any way, I am a very lapsed Catholic)
Thanks for that info w.r.t. to men removing hats in the Vatican. I didn’t know that. My husband (and I) would find it *odd* to have our heads uncovered in G-d’s House or any place of worship. We live and learn 😊
It’s actually quite fascinating when visiting the Sistine Chapel specifically. It’s such a touristy place that people forget it is a place of worship.
The guards do go round reminding people that they have to be quiet, uncover their heads etc
Does anyone find it weird that Kourtney copied Kim so much. Both got married in Italy, both in the month of May. Both had Andrea Bocelli sing at their weddings. Why didn’t Kourtney do something different? It’s just odd.
I wasn’t sure about that veil at first (though that photo of it was beautiful) but then read in Vogue about the dress that the image of the Virgin Mary is the same as one of Travis’ tattoos, and then thought it was kinda sweet and meaningful. Can certainly see why others might be bothered by it and it being displayed so boldly though.
I thought this is their Virgin marry equivalent … …I’m not catholic so not not in symbols etc
But this seems another category to me than catolisim mainstreem. ….
I’m not in to kard clan clicked here for the wedding photo but lady, what is wrong with normal style even not meant the occult or what not?
LMAO. One of the funny things about this little debate in other places has been seeing non-Catholic bigots push themselves as the healthy, harmless alternative to both Kardashians and the Catholic church. Conservative atheists, right-leaning libertarians, etc. all being so try-hard about their “See, Me Soooo Not Like Other Byeble-thumpers, I can criticize Catholics 2”, even while they have online personas that are 90% about spreading anti-feminist anti-LGBTQ talking points and attempting to bully those groups. We see them. They really aren’t special.
Most of the fashion from this wedding was pretty bad though. Kardashians rarely wear anything that actually looks good.
Word salad and all about you, always.
LMFAO. The f your feels crowd sure loves to DARVO at any criticism from the left.
^Presonally that particular comment was not said in offense for CH. You are wishing to be that I guess. Rollies
It is incredibly offensive.
I don’t know how it is with american catholics, but I am catholic from Latin America with italian grandparents, like most people in my hometown.
It doesn’t matter what you think about the Church or if you think Catholicism is this or that, our believes are not fashion acessories.
While I don’t think we are a persecuted minority religion, I also don’ t think that should give these american family of non-catholics free reign to wear my religion as a costume.
D&G live on tacky fashion and bad press, but they should know better as well.
It appears that I’m in the minority here, but I just feel like it’s disrespectful to use any religious imagery unless it is related to your own beliefs. As I’ve learned more about appropriation and how symbols with significance and religious meaning have been co-opted for “fashion”, I have become more uncomfortable with it. If this is an expression of her own religious beliefs then it’s less problematic in my opinion.
I am not Catholic/Christian but I am deeply offended 🫣🤭 at the trashiness & tackiness of all of their outfits. Hashtag Crimes Against Fashion. Ok, that’s me & my righteous indignation outta here ✌️
She’s a Kardashian. Were we expecting anything but?
With the way she dressed, i sense she didn’t take her own wedding seriously. The whole thing is just meh. I hope they are really in love with each other, it is not lust. Please we don’t want to hear from TMZ.
I’m more offended of the opening ” in the year of our lord Beyonce 2022″.
Please stop trying to make ” in the year of our lord Beyonce 2022″ happen. It isn’t going to happen.
XoXo
Stefano Gabbana and Domenico Dolce probably gave them all of the clothing and use of yachts etc for the free publicity to help their bad image. Says a lot about the K family
Lapsed Catholic here, grew up in a super-devout but politically liberal family. (Yes we do exist in large but quiet numbers.) So I feel well-equipped to comment. The wedding itself, from what I’ve seen, looked fine. I mean, tacky AF but whatever, not my wedding. The imagery on the veil was not offensive in and of itself, especially as it reflected Travis’ body art so it clearly means something to him. I thought it was fab. Pairing it with poorly-fitted lingerie as a “dress” was kinda stupid and detracts from the symbolism of their shared embodiment of something deeply meaningful to them, IMO, but again whatever, not my day.
What gives me pause is the images of Kardashians parading through the streets of Portofino in Italian Catholic cosplay. Kourtney in her black Virgin Mary minidress/black veil combo was channeling Italian Catholic widowhood, which seems highly inappropriate to do on the day before your wedding, particularly in a community that likely includes widows who wear the real things unironically. Travis’ getup that day was a takeoff on Italian Catholic clerical wear, not a thobe as some have speculated. Personally I think he wore it well, it doesn’t bother me alone but paired with Kourtney’s widow getup it made the mockery/cosplay clear to anyone who might have tendered her the benefit of the doubt. Punching up on the clergy? Fine by me. Punching down on grieving widows? Not cool.
I was also taken aback by Kim’s (or D&G’s) take on medieval sainthood. She was walking barefoot through the streets adorned in the haute couture version of sackcloth, all that was missing was a bedazzled whip for her feet. Traditional Catholics in Portofino and elsewhere in Italy revere their saints, so coming into their town and making a mockery of a traditional Holy Day/Feast Day procession is a no-no in my book. Outfitting North in expensively out-of-reach children’s fashion with accessory cross pendants (unless she is truly religious, which I somehow doubt) didn’t help.
These images are rife with history, artistry and spiritual symbolism. There is definitely a place for embellishment, irony, satire, even mockery in art and fashion. The Met Ball a few years ago was all about riffing on Catholic imagery, and in that context I thought it was awesome, I’d have no problems with any of this if it was worn to that event. Or if it was done intentionally as a statement about Catholic excess, let’s say to highlight the myriad of social justice issues exemplified by both the church hierarchy and the cult of celebrity. That could be avant-garde and very cool. But we all know the Ks aren’t smart or reflective enough to do that. In the midst of the actual community that produced this iconography, to whom it means something deeply spiritual, and whose local adherents are mostly poor and powerless in contrast to the Kardashians and their entourage, it strikes a sour note.
This is the comment I most agree with. I’m Protestant so as I was reading these I was hesitant to speak out, Mary’s place in our religion is one of honor but not sainthood so I didn’t feel that I could. That said this has seemed…..icky to me. The whole fashion aspect of this thing, not just this veil.
I teach art history, so I do understand iconography and culture, but Lionel, thank you for putting my icky-ness into words.
If you may offend other people’s cultures, religions, customs, etc., why do it?
Same background as you (I’m from a family of Italian Catholic immigrants to the U.S., though am myself an atheist) and I think your sentiments about this are spot on. This isn’t a protest about child abuse, residential schools, the terrifying influence of the USCCB on American politics, or colonialism, but a series of costumes that in their essence and place make a mockery of the spirituality of peasants and poor women. I’m not at all “offended” by the religious imagery, but in context it’s rude and gross.
Thank you for putting it with the right words. Disrespect towards people’s beliefs is so wrong….
I’m a lapsed Catholic and I did find Kourtney’s veil in bad taste, mostly because I don’t know of any Catholics who would get married with such a giant representation of Mary on their veil. I know it’s supposed to be a tribute to Travis’s (really ugly) tattoo. But to me it’s like she’s acting like she’s Mary herself. And to wear such a skimpy bustier/mini dress at a religious shrine (I can’t tell if they are indoors in a church or not) is pretty tacky and classless. I would think the same if it were a Buddhist/Jewish/Muslim shrine. This isn’t a Madonna music video. I’m not some rabid defender of the Catholic Church, Lord knows it doesn’t need defending. But everyone dressed so terribly, it looked more like a wedding at a nightclub/Las Vegas than wherever they were supposed to be.
Was their wedding in a Catholic Church? I’ve been trying to avoid articles about it. If ceremony was in a church, church probably charged them an arm and a leg to use it. I’m a recovering Catholic and not especially concerned about the religious imagery. I’m more offended by their usual lack of taste.
The Pope blesses pens and hand towels to sell to Catholic tourists, so I don’t see where there’s room for criticism here.
I’m offended that they had the nerve to seek sponsorship for their tacky wedding when they can more than afford to pay for it. Everything else, you like it, I love it.
Cultural appropriation is a leitmotiv we see over and over again with the Kardashians. I was raised Catholic, I am more offended by priests’ child abuse than garments worn by a reality show family. Compared to the big issues going on right now, this doesn’t register.
The Prophet never seems to have to deal with this style of appropriation.
I was raised uber Catholic, tho I am Wiccan now, but I was raised to think WWJD? What Would Jesus Do? For the uninitiated… seriously, would JC care? No. He’d laugh & raise a toast.
I’ve always thought D&G was gaudy trash, so I don’t know. As someone raised in Catholic schools and with a religious background, it’s offensive because, as others have said, it’s *ugly*
Catholics?? Anyone with a mildly working set of eyeballs was offended by the tacky sponcon goulfest mess of a wedding. Honestly, it was like the D&G Hot Topic line.
D&G is bat-winged Hot Topic platform boot of the fashion world, and not even in a cool or McQueen way, in an uncool and Avril Lavigne way via some Marchesa bullsht. So this collaboration actually makes a lot of sense. A fake punk and a reality tv star. In my opinion. Like ok, we get it, you’re trailer baroque af, mamma mia, wow, so edgy… Ok, I’m done…
Love the train; dislike both dresses.
But only the bride’s opinion of her dress matters on her wedding day. Congratulations to them both; they seem to honestly adore each other.
The Blessed Mother is for everyone, you can’t appropriate what belongs to all of us. She is EVERYONE’S Mother.
Is the use of Mary’s depiction as fashion offensive to some? Sure, because faith and religion is not fashion, it is a way of life. But it is also wrong to assume, without knowledge, that this was done JUST for fashion. Clearly the Blessed Mother has significance to them, and they wanted that included in their celebration.
The whole family is just tacky. To me Kourtney is tacky and trashy. I don’t find anything attractive about her. Sorry, not sorry!
Not a Catholic but just want to say holy hell D&G did them dirty. Worst wedding attire I’ve ever seen except for the the veil.