The Catholic Church has, obviously, always been anti-choice. There are many American Catholics who are staunchly anti-choice. But in America, there is a somewhat interesting blend of Catholic ideologies and “cafeteria Catholics.” America and Europe also have large voting blocs full of pro-choice Catholics too – I’ve always considered them Kennedy Catholics, given the Kennedy family’s firm support of a woman’s reproductive choice. Pope Francis has never really softened the anti-choice stances of the Church, but he softened how various “culture war” issues are spoken about, and he’s said that pro-choice Catholics are welcome in the Church and welcome to take the Eucharist. Pope Franny has also emphasized that being “pro-life” isn’t just about abortion – it’s about protecting the environment, being anti-racism, pro-immigrant and pro-gun control. So… the Vatican’s editorial director had some sh-t to say following the Dobbs decision:
Anti-abortion activists should be concerned with other issues that can threaten life, such as easy access to guns, poverty and rising maternity mortality rates, the Vatican’s editorial director said on Saturday. In a media editorial on the United States Supreme Court’s ruling to end the constitutional right to abortion, Andrea Tornielli said those who oppose abortion could not pick and choose pro-life issues.
“Being for life, always, for example, means being concerned if the mortality rates of women due to motherhood increase,” he wrote. He cited statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showing a rise in maternity mortality rates overall and that the rate was nearly three times higher for black women.
“Being for life, always, means asking how to help women welcome new life,” he wrote, citing an unsourced statistic that 75% of women who have abortions live in poverty or are low-wage earners. He also cited statistics from the Harvard Review of Psychiatry showing that the United States has much lower rates of paid parental leave compared with other rich nations.
“Being for life, always, also means defending it against the threat of firearms, which unfortunately have become a leading cause of death of children and adolescents in the U.S.” he wrote.
Pope Francis has compared having an abortion to “hiring a hit man” to eliminate a problematic person. But he has tried to steer the U.S. Catholic Church away from seeing abortion as the single, overarching life issue in the country’s so-called culture wars. The death penalty, gun control, support for families, and immigration are also life issues, he has said.
Yeah, it feels weird to say this, but I think the Church is right to re-emphasize this at this moment. Being pro-gun and pro-poverty are not “pro-life” positions. It also feels like the Church is shocked that they finally got what they said they wanted – “oh sh-t you really went through with it, damn.” They were part of it, much as Pope Franny wants to mitigate the damage. The fundamentalist Christians were an even bigger part of it, but the anti-choice Catholics did a lot too. Bunch of old men who want to control women’s bodies for centuries.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
-
- Pope Francis during Wednesday General audience in St. Peter’s Square at the Vatican. 15 June 2022,Image: 699974757, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Maria Laura Antonelli / AGF Foto / Avalon
-
- Pope Francis, sitting in a wheelchair after a knee treatment, participates in the 10th World Festival of Families at the Vatican, Paul VI Audience Hall. Vatican City, Rome 22 June 2022.,Image: 702087788, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Maria Laura Antonelli / AGF Foto / Avalon
-
- Pope Francis, sitting in a wheelchair after a knee treatment, participates in the 10th World Festival of Families at the Vatican, Paul VI Audience Hall. Vatican City, Rome 22 June 2022.,Image: 702087919, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Maria Laura Antonelli / AGF Foto / Avalon
I appreciate the messaging, but too little too late. My spouse would like to raise our kids Catholic, and after Friday I cannot support that choice. The cynical side of me thinks this is just damage control for the pro-bodily autonomy Catholics out there…
Being Catholic is like being in an abusive relationship. So happy I left. Both.
The President of the United States is Catholic. In the US, Evangelical Christians, protestants, are primarily in support of anti-abortion laws.
As is the Speaker of the House.
7 of 9 Supreme Court justices are Catholic. It’s too much.
Even though I was a very little kid, I remember when John Kennedy being Catholic was a HUGE thing. And now…this.
I call b.s. on all of this. The Catholic church in the U.S. has spent $$$$$$$ fighting abortion laws ever since Roe v. Wade. Plus, constantly sending out direct mails etc. Money that could have been spent to help the poor.
Where was the pope then? Where is he now? This new stance costs him nothing. He’s already won. Just not openly gloating. Note that women aren’t even allowed to be priests. So not a single decision-maker in the church ever has to worry about getting pregnant.
I remember when the U.S. church was sending Catholic schoolboys on spring vacation to campaign against abortion on the Lincoln Memorial. The Texas Catholic Conference of Bishops (TCCB) has campaigned tirelessly against abortion, noting that they are simply carrying out the pope’s anti-abortion agenda.
Meanwhile the pope has done very little about the priests abusing little boys.
I used to be a Catholic. Not anymore.
It’s genuinely nice that the Catholic Church is being less insane, but I do notice that they still don’t even mention birth control, which is pretty important if you’re talking about poverty and women’s health.
@GR my local Catholic Priest is pro birth control & doesn’t agree with the church’s stance on it. He operates from a position of compassion and pragmatism.
The church is still pushing the rhythm method, which of course doesn’t work.
There’s a large part of the Catholic Church that is quietly against this pope and way more conservative.
I’ve heard the same thing from Catholics of all ages so they’re not being as quiet about it recently. My 2 book clubs seem to be a safe space for people to talk politics and religion freely without fear of being berated or shunned. A couple of neighbor teen girls come to swim sometimes and they’ve expressed that the Pope is sometimes wrong.
they’re not really that quiet.
Not so quietly I would say, I always felt that many don’t like him and want him gone because he’s clearly more left leaning
I was just coming to say that!
This is very much the Pope’s stance and not the faithful. I know so many Catholics who find him way too progressive and too ‘South American’…
I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Pope goes back to the Ratzinger side of the church.
What is ironic is that all those ‘better’ Catholics are blasphemous, seeing as there is a little thing known as papal infallibility…
Francis has appointed a lot of cardinals in his mold. The choice of a new pope will be influenced by them.
Isn’t he the pope who issued an “apology” to the US nuns who had been sanctioned for doing charitable acts in their communities (assistance with housing, hunger, childcare, poverty and advocating for healthcare for all), told to knock it off and focus on anti-abortion efforts? Basically saying “yeah, you were right about following the intent of Christ’s teachings and the Vatican shouldn’t have let the US bishops bully you with our backing.
There are absolutely those in the Church who are opposed to him.
Solely due to the reasons of this statement being published. I find this Pope refreshing and certainly a man that is worthy of being Pope. He doesn’t shy away from controversial issues which I am happy to read about. This should be the position of the Pope to call-out the injustices of the world. They shouldn’t hide being their positions and be silent.
In the presence of evil, silence makes you an accomplice.
Yes.
Maybe the Catholic Church should stop funding the late Father Shanley’s boyfriend and the nuns that assisted him or still paying off his business partners that helped him pimp out small children in other countries.
Once I learned this I lost all my lingering faith. Nothing they say is more than lip service to avoid getting dragged. They are all so corrupt and the Pope is complicit.
That is 1000000% true. Large segments of my family and extended family have nothing but hatred and disgust for this pope. While they fawn over the memory of John Paul 2 who helped hide sexual abuse by priests world wide.
There was a bizzare Fox News cult, white nationalist Xtian conspiracy theory about globalism, the Pope, Obama and I think the UN setting up a new world order which would dominate the world and consume nations. My mother heard it from pastors whose sermons she’d see on tv, the radio (they were also the ones seeking big donations from their mostly poor viewers while the “preachers” lived lavish lifestyles).
It’s the old “fear The Other” trick, They – the black, the brown, the liberal, the Jewish, the equal basic human and humane rights for all “socialists” are coming – for your bibles, your guns, your flag, your womenfolk, your money, your children, your livelihoods destructive preaching. Oh and BTW, These guns and cans of prepper foods are going to to save your soul and the soul of “our”* nation – call now, only 4 easy payments of $99.99 + shipping, handling and a $50 P.O. S. charge ( … that’s point of sale, but in reality…)
Meanwhile the GOP, fossil fuel interests, bigoted billionaires (Kochs, Murdochs,whoever DeVos spawned from, Trumps, oligarchs (Russian and other)), Cheney and the military for profit crew have already grabbed the wheel and have been steering things in their lying greedy selfish bigoted cruel interests for decades.
But yeah, there are absolutely RC leaders who are drumming up hate for this Pope and would take him down by any means at the first chance they get. Corruption thrives in fear, uncertainty, dismay, division and chaos.
*our = the country they (the preachers) claim belongs solely to white xTian conservatives
The faction of the American Catholic church that views the reforms of Vatican II as a mistake and is more reactionary, both theological and politically, is the side that is in control of the US church.
It’s been an ongoing conservative shift in the US church over the last 25 years. In some of the dioceses that had clerical abuse settlements to pay out, it’s no coincidence that the parishes that were closed and land sold were the most progressive leaning, even if they had more active parishes that were actually growing. The more conservative reactionary ones that were bleeding parishioners somehow were spared from closure.
I’m in the Midwest and the local bishop issued a statement celebrating Dobbs. It’s not his first time crossing the boundaries between the separation of church and state, including telling people that voted for Biden that they weren’t real Catholics. His predecessor was also conservative, but didn’t have the current one’s better PR presentation. He came across as a grumpy, reactionary old man who liked to scold people for being not devout enough and not giving enough money to the diocese. This one is just as conservative but his messaging comes across as less aggressive. Under both the diocese engages in annual spat with the county over if mostly unused church property that was formerly the site of the cathedral should be taxed. Personally, if they feel the need to preach politics from the pulpit, then the diocese property should be taxed.
Yup, the dog finally caught its tail. Now what?
If you have been to europe in the last few years church attendance is down over 50% all the buildings they own show be turned into house to make the check money to do the stuff for the poor. They own huge blocks of land and thousands of properties all over europe and the world.
I am a “Kennedy Catholic” ( although without the money, massive privilege, and dodgy choices that include leaving a young woman to drown) and I fully support the stand the Vatican is taking on these issues with the caveat that they also need to progress to the point that the issue of birth control needs to be reworked. I honestly believe Francis is a truly good human but he is fighting against so much of the church that is reactive and ultra conservative. No organized religion is perfect and all are subject to manipulation by its believers. It’s good to see my Pope out there speaking boldly though Now let’s support free and available birth control for all please.
Same here. And I remember her getting a letter from the Catholic Church before the 2020 elections saying basically everything in these talking points, and to not be a single issue voter. It basically said do not vote for Trump. I love Pope Francis.
While the Catholic church is problematic for many reasons (don’t @me, I was raised Catholic, attended catholic schools), this stance is at least fairly consistent. Yes the church is anti-abortion, but they’re also anti-death penalty, pro gun control, etc. It’s what so many have been saying over the past week – if this was about protecting life, we would see very different policies from the GOP.
As an aside- like I said I’m catholic and I was in late middle school before I realized that the catholic church was anti-abortion, LOL. I’m from a very democratic, very catholic city, so everyone I know is a Democrat and also Catholic. It wasn’t until the anti-abortion activists came to visit our school and gave us those little feet pins that we all blindly wore that I realized how anti-abortion the church is.
Actually pleasantly surprised to see current pope acknowledging that a pro life position isn’t just anti abortion. That’s progressive by Catholic standards.
He and others have been pointing that out for years but many American bishops are hardcore on this issue and that’s all they want to focus on. They have allowed themselves and their flock to become foolish tools of the GOP, which will cast them aside once it achieves its goals.
I have asked why no bishop has threatened to deny communion to Alito, who has sent many people to execution.
Yes, agree. I think this pope is as progressive as he can be and still remain the head of a very regressive organization. I’m glad the pope is pointing this out. The pro-life people ultimately seem such anti-lifers. They care so much about unborn life, but not so much about the living.
On the same day of your country’s terrible overturn, Pope Francis said he gets asked by mothers what to do because they don’t want to find someone and get married, and that he replies – mothers, stop washing their shirts and maybe they will get married.
I almost qouted him on facebook saying “We live in a world where Pope is the progressive one.”
I’m sorry I don’t understand the quote. Could you possibly explain more?
Ooooh, sorry! THEY don’t want to get married – SONS!
Ah.
Sons don’t want to leave their mothers’ nest.
Even in that quote it’s laying the blame for choices made by grown men on to women.
I agree, that’s why I didn’t post it on fb after all.
And apparently it’s still a woman’s job to do men’s laundry–first it’s mom’s, then it’s the wife’s. Geez Louise.
Well, Machismo is written with M of mother. Where I live there are still families where the mom raises the children as if women were subservient, not all blame in the macho education lies in the husband’s example. Mothers actively do this, to boys and girls. My older (almost unschooled) female cousins from one family used to get beatings from their brothers because they wouldn’t iron their shirts.
I think he was alluding to the Italian tradition of pampering adult sons. It made me laugh, but yes, it’s also problematic.
My husband and I are moving to Portugal within the next 12 months. While researching Portugal to determine whether it was a good fit politically, we were initially alarmed that it’s 85% Roman Catholic, especially given that we’re atheists. We then researched specifically its laws pertaining to abortion, women’s bodily autonomy, and LGBTQA+ issues and were shocked by how progressive it is and how its civil liberties seem at odds with the dominant religious beliefs of its people. Portugal is exemplary of the separation of church and state.
Separation of church and state is pretty much a given in most of Europe. What is happening in the States is (right now at least) inconceivable for most of the Continent.
Ireland finally de-criminalised abortion after an infamous case where a woman died of sepsis after a partial miscarriage.
The main exception is Poland, but the new anti-abortion laws there are met with ongoing resistance.
@HandforthParish, I think Americans are so indoctrinated by “the greatest country in the world” propaganda that we have no idea how much better other countries do in terms of education, healthcare, human rights, separation of church and state, gun control, etc.
Portugal has a 5-year path to citizenship, which would include EU citizenship, which really appeals to us.
Croatia is 98% Catholic, the state and church are not completely separate (because of historical contracts, long story) and while we do have right and left wings, church can’t decide anything, can just influence its followers in a certain amount. The main political current has always been centre with leaning to depends on the time.
Catholic also in many cases means “raised Catholic, but not practicing it in my adulthood”, so, welcome to Europe!
My friend recently moved to Portugal (a year ago) and wrote a really helpful website for people to navigate visas etc. https://www.movingto.io/pt/nhr-visa-portugal hopefully it’s useful!
@Michelle Connolly, thank you so much! We’ve done a lot of research over the last year, but I hadn’t seen this article.
Portugal is on my shortlist of places to move to in the next 5-7 years (sooner if I can make it work). Most, but not all, are EU countries for those reasons. It’s always been a dream of mine to live in Europe, but I was going to wait until my niece was 18 before attempting to move, until the combination of the SCOTUS decision leaking and Texas response to the Uvalde shooting, I’m done. I can’t take it anymore. I know it’s going to take years for me to get a visa out and get the money together, and I die a little more inside every morning I wake up here.
Yes, Portugal is 85% Catholic but the vast majority of the Catholics don’t even go to church, we were baptized, that’s it… I have some friends who are priests and they are not against being gay or doing an abortion. Most of them tries to be neutral about it.
In schools we have a subject called Citizenship and Development where the following topics are debated (our students should decide on their own what to believe): Human Rights, Gender Equality, Interculturalism, Sustainable Development, Environmental Education, Health, Sexuality, the Media, Democratic Institutions, Financial Literacy,etc… It starts in primary school until 12th grade…Some voices ara against this subject because they say it indocrinates their kids to go against God… (sigh…) In all subjects this idea of citizenship is taught, because we evaluate our students in knowledge and atitudes (respect for others, responsibility, etc) … Plus, the curriculum in all schools has to be state approved, it’s common to all schools….
@Desdemona, thank you so much for the explanation. My implicit bias was definitely evident in my initial reaction to such a high percentage of a single religious group in Portugal despite all of the aspects of the culture that were drawing us there–among the safest countries in the world, safe and welcoming to the LGBTQA+ community, environmental stewardship, welcoming of immigrants, and the per capita COVID-19 vaccine rate.
I LOVE the subject you described! I continue to learn more about Portugal all the time and am definitely being drawn there as somewhere I strongly want to live instead of simply as a refuge from the US.
It is telling women to stop catering to grown men, stop putting their adult sons on a pedestal.
I think they are being consistant here, but very religious folks claim this pope is Satan anyway.
I think what few people realize, is that the official Catholic Church is not even close to being the strictest of the Christian religions, eventgough it’s got that reputation. Protestant groups (as they are not centralized) in the US range from very lenient and gentle and open to so much stricter and harsher than the Catholics have ever been. And that’s even under strict popes.
That’s why it feels progressive sometimes and backwards on other times.
the Catholic Church has been responsible for or complicit in unbelievable atrocities for centuries. I don’t think it’s productive to say “well it’s not as strict as Protestants” and in fact I don’t think that’s quite true. I’m sure there are many good and honest parishioners in both and both institutions are deeply corrupt. And there are centralized Protestant groups.
It certainly was and still is complicit, but that does not make it the harshest.
I’m not talking aboug historical guilt, nor individual parishioners, I’m talking what the parishioners are allowed to do in the eyes of the church in 2022. Protestant practices are quite a spectrum over their denominations. Most are milder than Catholics, but not all.
He’s a Jesuit and that teaching of a holistic ‘pro life’ involving all aspects has always been a Jesuit cornerstone. That’s not new for recent events . You can’t say you’re pro life and also be pro gun, not fight poverty, be pro death penalty etc. Jesuits have always focused on social justice causes.
I heard that same speech from priests growing up so not really a new thing. It’s true there are some super conservative Catholics that are not a fan of his ( or jesuits as a whole. They were persecuted by the larger church for years)
Recovering Catholic here. I was educated by Jesuits, and I always remember that line from the old Law and Order episode in which assistant DA Jack McCoy was talking about his education by Jesuits: “They say that a Jesuit education makes you either obedient or impertinent.” Guess which one McCoy and I are?
I no longer go to mass. Haven’t been since before COVID. But I still send an envelope with a check every month to our parish. It is attached to a public university in a blue state and progressive. Welcoming to lgbtq catholics, remarried catholics, plans holiday meals for international students who can’t travel home during school breaks, runs a food pantry, etc. The school provides education to low income kids of all faiths trying to escape horrible public schools. But no longer will I send money. I will continue to return my envelope every month with the receipt from my recurring donations to Planned Parenthood and the Trevor Project. I think Francis is as good as a priest can possibly be but the US bishops are horrible men.
‘I think Francis is as good as a priest can possibly be but the US bishops are horrible men.’
Thank you!
Amen.
I was raised Catholic. Although I generally like the Pope and Franciscans, I’m currently at the point of being anti-religion.
Conservatives have proven time and again that they will fight to take away food, housing, and medical care from poor women and children. They will put kids in cages. They will call Black women “welfare queens” and then force them to remain pregnant against their will.
It’s too late! We already know who the religious extremists are and what they are about. It’s not just Catholics.
We see them and have received the message, loudly and clearly.
I also like Pope Francis but I think the Cardinals will swing toward an ultra conservative pope next time.
As I mentioned above, Francis has appointed a lot of progressive cardinals. That should impact the vote for his successor.
He’s a meddling FOOL. He has meddled in argentine politics ever since he became Pope. We finally legalsied abortion, after years of rallys, marches and grassroots movements, and countless deaths as a product of clandestine abortions, and he was still MEDDLING to have it not pass into law by our senators.
Argentina has one of the worst adoption policies in the world. Married couples can spend up tp 10 years waiting to adopt (single parents and same sex couples have about no chance at all) so children are left in the system their whole lives. Others are raised in absolute poverty with restricted access to food, health and education. He has never, not even once, asked for substantial changes that could give women more choice – he is also against sex ed in schools. So it seems he is progressive only when rich countries “misbehave”.
Catholic here. Entire family Catholics, we all attended Catholic school, etc.
Trust me, the Catholic Church should shut up and sit down.
The Pope and the entire leadership has ZERO business giving rules to the faithful followers or anyone else.
Hundreds of years of wealth hoarding, abuse, denial, etc., etc., etc.
The Catholic Church and Mother Teresa can all rot in hell for their “Give your suffering and poverty up to Jesus.” And, “The poor will always be among us” F*ck Right Off with that BS!
Untold millions of humans have suffered needlessly because of Catholic dogma.
Shut Up.
+10000000
Thank you for posting. I would like to say the same, but I’m not catholic and it could comes across as “she’s just anti-catholic.” But that church has done so much harm to so many people, they do not have any moral high ground. And maybe if they didn’t oppose birth control, there wouldn’t be a need for so many abortions.
The Catholic world is actually WILD at the moment. The Catholic Church in the US is basically at war with Pope Francis with bishops and even at least one cardinal actively working to try to overthrow him because they think he’s the antiChrist.
I get that his statements come across as very “too little too late” to people in the real world and honestly it’s very valid to dislike the Catholic Church for a large number of reasons, but Pope Francis’ takes have made the American alt-right BIG MAD.
Yes to all this. He is at least progressive on other issues. The church is never, ever going to be okay with abortion. Smart Catholics know how to get around the teachings of the church. Also, I always say that if you don’t like your parish, then shop around.
Call me a whatever Catholic,
But in my mostly catholic country, there are many open minded catholics, I used artificial methods to get pregnant, I used the day after pill in more than one occasion, lost of people engage in premarital relationships, there are many gays, some are married, many go to mass, or don’t. I am pro choice even after having adopted my baby girl, I recognise her bio mom could have taken a different choice. …And a long etc.
Then I see some religious people in the US, my relative included. Some of them are catholics, and I think some of them are kind of extremists, to the point of evading vaccination, abortion, and one of them only homeschooled and bought a bigger piece of land to try to be able to be self sufficient, something with no paying taxes to the government. I think that is kind of crazy. We look at their choices from afar and are puzzled.
I understand that many catholics in the UDdisregard pope Francis, because they want maybe a tougher person, maybe they want a less understanding leader? (And francis is not perfect, but I think he is much better and practical than the former popes.
My Aunt is a Catholic nun and she is pro-life in every sense. She is fundamentally wrong about when life begins, but I understand where she’s coming from and at least her solutions veer more towards “prevent people from NEEDING abortions in the first place.” She was not sanctioned, as far as I know, but she’s definitely a hippy dippy nun and internally consistent.
My husband’s aunt is a nun, she’s over 80 and very progressive. She feels more in line with working for the people, their needs, truly helping. Other areas of the clergy (and the people) are very stalled, many times mentally.
My doctor friend is very anti abortion, but she is not adopting any kid either.
Despite having a Pope whose word is supposed to be law, Catholics seem to be all over the map on the issue of abortion. I know Catholics who are 100% Pro Choice. I also know one guy who is a urologist but won’t perform vasectomies (every sperm is sacred and all that).
This Pope is an improvement, for sure. But Catholicism has been forcing women to give birth for centuries. The Fundie Protestants are just as bad. I’m sorry if the word “Fundie” sounds insulting but, well, I guess in my case that’s intentional. Screw those people.
I hate fundamentalism in general. This is what it gets us. My husband is Jewish and so are my kids. One thing I appreciate about Judaism is it doesn’t proselytize. I obviously don’t like how women are treated in the ultra-Orthodox sects, pressured to start pushing out babies from the age of 18…..but at least the religion insists on preserving the mother’s life over that of the fetus. It’s something.
As others noted above, Francis is a Jesuit, which is more progressive than the church as a whole. I was raised Catholic and attended a Jesuit university. Before I left for school, my parish priest warned me that Jesuits “have a lot of weird ideas.” I got to school and found out the “weird ideas” are that God loves you anyway. The gay/straight alliance at my school was one of the biggest, most active clubs and packed with people from campus ministry. This feels like an extension of that, Francis is about as progressive as the church can get. And if it pisses off conservatives, more power to him. I personally “left” the church (you never truly leave Catholicism) when I felt too much like a hypocrite- supporting gay rights and the right to choose while seemingly showing support for the regressive attitudes of the church by continuing to attend mass. If more of the church was like Francis, I’d probably be less ambivalent about ever going back.
What the Pope is talking about is called the seamless garment. The seamless garment belief is that life must be supported at all stages, from birth to death and everything in-between. People need to be paid s living wage. No one should go hungry. No death penalty. no one should live in poverty. Medical care cannot be denied. There is more, but you get the idea. We have to be compassionate in all things, not just the things that suit us.
So a different old white guy has a different opinion about what women should be allowed to do?