Shortly after Prince Philip died last year, the Earl and Countess of Wessex went on a full-throttle PR tour. They were giving interviews, they were working with friendly royal journalists, they were prancing around, doing photo-ops. What was it all about? Well, once Philip passed away, Edward was supposed to inherit the “Duke of Edinburgh” title, and Sophie was supposed to be the Duchess of Edinburgh. When Edward and Sophie married, there were negotiations behind-the-scenes about their titles, and basically Edward agreed to the “lesser” title of Earl of Wessex with the assurance that he would eventually become DoE. The problem is that once Philip passed away, his title reverted back to the crown and it was immediately inherited by then-Prince Charles. Charles could have given up the DoE title and agreed with his mother’s scheme to make Edward the DoE. Charles refused. Hilariously, Charles also let it be known that he found the Wessexes’ whole PR tour rather distasteful and tacky too. That didn’t stop Sophie from trying to revive the same campaign once QEII died in September though. Well, it looks like Charles has formalized the whole thing now – the Wessexes will NEVER be the Edinburghs.
Prince Edward is set to miss out on becoming Duke of Edinburgh as part of King Charles’s plans for a trimmed down monarchy, it has emerged. A palace source told The Daily Mail that ‘The King wants to slim down the monarchy [so] it wouldn’t make sense to make the Earl the Duke of Edinburgh.’
Prince Edward was promised by the Queen and Prince Philip that he would succeed his father as Duke after his death. The pledge was written down and handed to Edward and new wife Sophie Wessex as a wedding present when they tied the knot in June 1999. But Edward will now miss out on becoming Duke and Sophie Wessex will not be Duchess of Edinburgh under the palace U-turn, it was claimed.
Instead, King Charles will keep the title himself, although not use it, a courtier explained. They said: ‘The King wants to slim down the monarchy, as is well known. That means it wouldn’t make sense to make the Earl the Duke of Edinburgh. It’s a hereditary title which would then be passed on to the Earl and Countess of Wessex’s son, James, Viscount Severn. Essentially, this was accepted by the Earl when he agreed that his children would not be a prince or princess.’
Although the daughters of Edward’s elder brother, Princes Andrew, are princesses, that came about long before King Charles’s ‘slim-down’ agenda.
‘There was a policy change’, the source added.
At the time of their wedding in 1999, Buckingham Palace made clear that Charles agreed with his parents’ plans. Officials released a statement twenty-three years ago which stated: ‘The Queen, the Duke of Edinburgh and the Prince of Wales have also agreed that the Prince Edward should be given the Dukedom of Edinburgh in due course when the present title held now by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown.’
Edward and Sophie’s children will still have titles, just not royal titles. Lady Louise will remain Lady Louise, and James is currently Viscount Severn, and I’m pretty sure James will become the Earl of Wessex when his father passes. Now, there was some talk – when QEII was alive – that Lady Louise could choose to become styled as a princess, as all monarch’s grandchildren (by the male heirs) are supposed to be. It was up to Louise when she turned 18, but she didn’t take advantage of it when she had the chance. I don’t know if that’s still an option now that she’s merely the niece of the king.
As for poor Edward and Sophie getting screwed over by Charles… well, we always knew that Charles was a deeply petty man. I don’t even think that Charles wants the Wessexes to be full-time working royals anymore, and I’m sure their Sovereign Grant allowance will likely be deeply slashed too. It is kind of f–ked up that Edward, Sophie, QEII AND Philip all agreed that the Edinburgh title should go to Edward and then Charles was just like “nope.”
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- LONDON, ENGLAND – NOVEMBER 10: Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, Sophie, Countess of Wessex, Prince Charles, Prince of Wales and Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall and Prince Andrew, Duke of York attend the Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall on November 10, 2018 in London, England. The Queen and members of the Royal Family are attending the annual Festival of Remembrance to commemorate all those who have lost their lives in conflicts and will mark 100 years since the end of the First World War.,Image: 534600424, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- LONDON, ENGLAND – NOVEMBER 10: Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, Sophie, Countess of Wessex, Prince Charles, Prince of Wales and Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall attend the Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall on November 10, 2018 in London, England. The Queen and members of the Royal Family are attending the annual Festival of Remembrance to commemorate all those who have lost their lives in conflicts and will mark 100 years since the end of the First World War.,Image: 534600473, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- HRH Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex departs a Service of Thanksgiving for HRH The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh at Westminster Abbey, London, England, UK on Tuesday 29 March, 2022.,Image: 673801219, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: Please credit photographer and agency when publishing as Justin Ng/UPPA/Avalon., Model Release: no, Credit line: Justin Ng / Avalon
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- LONDON, ENGLAND – SEPTEMBER 17: Sophie, Countess of Wessex and Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex arrive for a vigil in honour of Queen Elizabeth II at Westminster Hall on September 17, 2022 in London, England. Queen Elizabeth II’s grandchildren mount a family vigil over her coffin lying in state in Westminster Hall. Queen Elizabeth II died at Balmoral Castle in Scotland on September 8, 2022, and is succeeded by her eldest son, King Charles III.,Image: 723679272, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Chris Jackson / Avalon
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- Funeral of Queen Elizabeth II at Westminster Abbey, London. Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Camilla Queen Consort, Prince George, Princess Charlotte, Princess of Wales and Sophie Countess of Wessex.,Image: 724195093, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Adam Gerrard / Avalon
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- The Countess of Wessex arrives at the Committal Service for Queen Elizabeth II held at St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle, Berkshire.,Image: 724269874, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: -, Model Release: no, Credit line: Kirsty O’Connor / Avalon
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- Britain’s Prince Edward and Sophie, Countess of Wessex attend the annual Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall in London, Britain November 12, 2022.,Image: 737052198, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: CHRIS RADBURN / Avalon
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- London, UNITED KINGDOM – Public at the Memorial Service of Thanksgiving for the life of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh at Westminster Abbey in London, UK. Pictured: Prince Edward, Sophie, Countess of Wessex, Lady Louise Windsor, James, Viscount Severn, Louise Moun BACKGRID USA 29 MARCH 2022 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Manchester, UNITED KINGDOM – Prince Edward and his wife Sophie, the Countess of Wessex visit Manchester ahead of the Queen’s funeral. The royal couple visit the Council’s book of condolence at Manchester Central Library to add their signatures, before moving on to view the floral tributes left in St Ann’s Square by locals in mourning. The pair will also visit Manchester Cathedral to light a candle for her late Majesty and view their books of condolence and meet with volunteers involved with managing the tributes. Pictured: Sophie Countess of Wessex BACKGRID USA 15 SEPTEMBER 2022 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Manchester, UNITED KINGDOM – Prince Edward and his wife Sophie, the Countess of Wessex visit Manchester ahead of the Queen’s funeral. The royal couple visit the Council’s book of condolence at Manchester Central Library to add their signatures, before moving on to view the floral tributes left in St Ann’s Square by locals in mourning. The pair will also visit Manchester Cathedral to light a candle for her late Majesty and view their books of condolence and meet with volunteers involved with managing the tributes. Pictured: Sophie Countess of Wessex BACKGRID USA 15 SEPTEMBER 2022 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- North America Rights Only – London, UK -20220329- Service of Thanksgiving for the life of Prince Philip at Westminster Abbey -PICTURED: Sophie Countess of Wessex, Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, James Viscount Severn -PHOTO by: PA Images/INSTARimages.com Disclaimer: This is an editorial, rights-managed image. Please contact INSTAR Images for licensing fee and rights information at sales@instarimages.com or call +1 212 414 0207. This image may not be published in any way that is, or might be deemed to be, defamatory, libelous, pornographic, or obscene. Please consult our sales department for any clarification needed prior to publication and use. INSTAR Images reserves the right to pursue unauthorized users of this material. If you are in violation of our intellectual property rights or copyright you may be liable for damages, loss of income, any profits you derive from the unauthorized use of this material and, where appropriate, the cost of collection and/or any statutory damages awarded For images containing underage children: Be advised that some Countries may have restricted privacy laws against publishing images of underage children. Inform yourself! Underage children may need to be removed or have their face pixelated before publishing
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- USA Rights Only, London, UK – 20220603- British royals leaving the National Service of Thanksgiving for the Queen as part of her platinum jubilee celebrations at Saint Paul Cathedral in London. -PICTURED: Lady Louise Windsor -PHOTO by: Nieboer/DDP/INSTARimages.com -ddp_17352415 This is an editorial, rights-managed image. Please contact Instar Images LLC for licensing fee and rights information at sales@instarimages.com or call +1 212 414 0207 This image may not be published in any way that is, or might be deemed to be, defamatory, libelous, pornographic, or obscene. Please consult our sales department for any clarification needed prior to publication and use. Instar Images LLC reserves the right to pursue unauthorized users of this material. If you are in violation of our intellectual property rights or copyright you may be liable for damages, loss of income, any profits you derive from the unauthorized use of this material and, where appropriate, the cost of collection and/or any statutory damages awarded Featuring: Lady Louise Windsor Where: London, UK, United Kingdom When: 03 Jun 2022 Credit: Nieboer/DDP/INSTARimages.com **USA Rights Only**
No surprises maybe George or Louis will get the title.
Definitely Louis…what about the Cambridge title? I thought that George will get it…
Yes. I see William’s hand in this. Cambridge for George, Edinburgh for Louis.
William is the Duke of Cambridge until he becomes king, so it depends on when that happens and when George or Louis get married. When Charles dies George becomes Duke of Cornwall so if that happens before he’s married he prob won’t get another title at marriage besides PoW.
Also when Charles dies and willie is king, George could get the prince of wales title as well as the duke of Cornwall. Willie has them both as well as being the duke of Cambridge. Him and Charles are just being title hoarders.
I just can’t help thinking that Charles is paring the Working Royals to suit his plans for a slimmed-down monarchy. This does not mean it’s a bad thing, unless Charles is doing it for ulterior motives. That is, having only Camilla, William and Kate in his circle. I think he is a petty, vindictive power whore, eliminating everyone so they can’t cross him, won’t see the dodgy business deals he gets involved in, and therefore, cannot question him about them, much less ever report such dealings to the relevant authorities. What he fails to realise is that all those major and minor Royals left in England are far too obsequious to ever challenge him about anything. Harry is the only one with any guts to decide he could not stay in the middle of this viper’s nest, and that he and his wife wanted to live and raise their children differently . He is the one that Charles is scared of, and there’s nothing he can do about it, except maybe take his anger and frustration out on others. Kind of like Trump, really . The next few weeks will be very interesting.
This indeed strikes me as a chuck / Willain premeditated scheme to favour the heir’s line. This being said, can we spend a minute on how shortsighted a miscalculation this is on Charles’ part 🤔 😣:
– Breaching a contractual agreement, Sausage Fingers has lost no time alienating the affection and support of the Wessexes, his most subservient, slimy suckers. Soph and Ed have spent the best part of the last 2 decades bending over backwards, being docile and nodding to everything… To no avail.
– They are now experiencing the ungratefulness and sadistic dispossession of what is rightfully theirs and long-awaited: the Wessexes’ despondency and resentment is now a reality to reckon with. Having nothing to earn, no future prospect and very little to lose, they might be tempted to spill dirt and beat the Sussexes at the exercise.
– Bullyiam’s and Katren’s low energy level, sluggishness and moderate interest in work is adversarial to the idea of a slimmed-down monarchy, which implies that the remaining individuals invest more efforts into the existing workload. So All I see coming is Chucky being called out for his slimmed-down planning abilities and his vindictive, narrow-minded views. It is expected that less charities will be attended to and more I-wish-we-could-do-mores will be heard, in the near future.
– We are given a bitter foretaste of what will become of Archie’s and Lilibet’s titles.
– The Commonwealth despise the Buffon© Monarchy, Ireland disdains the BM, Wales holds the BM in high contempt: it is not Henry and Meghan who will bring about the demise of the institution, it is Charles 3 himself. His aloofness and complete disregard for his most loyal entourage will boomerang back big time. And we’ll be there for the final firework.
Yep, Julia. We will know for sure when Kitty starts floating stories in the media about how much Louis reminds all of them of Philip. So, this time, next week.
So are all of the royalists and members of the British media who have been shrieking at the tops of their lungs for the past two years that the Sussexes are “Disrespecting Her Majesty!” bringing the same energy to this? This blatant disregard of her express (and apparently, in WRITING) wishes? Merely weeks after her death, no less?
@Sugarhere I’ve been thinking along these lines as well. Charles could easily cement loyalty by giving the Wessexes the titles that they were promised, and affirming the titles that Sussex kids already have. Instead, he’s publicly dismissing some of his most loyal family members (Wessex) and showing the public what his word is worth. People throughout the Commonwealth countries, throughout Great Britain, and throughout the world are paying particular attention to his treatment of the Sussex family.
In the end, I think Charles the Petty will get his wish — an anorexically “slimmed down” monarchy that matters little to anyone except himself. I’m trying to think what’s left. I’d think that his behavior would make him unfit to be viewed as a spiritual leader of any kind. His family relationships are such a mess that it’s hard to even admire them aspirationally for their baubles and pretty clothes. And his questionable judgement comes down to emboldening two people who don’t seem to want the actual job.
Sadly, I agree: we’ll probably be around to watch the cookies crumble — much sooner than I would have thought possible.
@Blithe, “anorexically” slimmed down is a perfect way to put it. This could NOT have been what Charles meant when he first floated the idea a couple of decades ago.
This public snub very well may cause the Wessexes to finally say “F it,” and I’m sure they received enough money in Edward’s parents’ wills that they won’t be worrying about living on the street.
So that leaves Charles, Camilla, William, Kate, and Anne as the “senior working royals?” And Anne will be winding down soon, if anything (I suspect Camilla wants to, as well, but doesn’t have a choice ATM— at least not until the coronation is over). All it takes is a stroke or the need for a hip replacement or something to take Anne out for a while, or permanently.
W&K do fck all, and when they do deign to make a rare appearance, it often ends up embarrassing the BRF in some way. William makes inappropriate jokes, and Kate hasn’t a clue how to speak to or like a normal person.
Even if Edward and Sophie do continue to work, Edward never did that much anyway, and no one paid attention to Sophie no matter how hard she tried. So, IDK how much of a net gain they are to Charles anyway.
Charles is approaching 80 ffs, and if, in a few years, the Cambridge kids decide they want no part of this circus, Charles is up sh!t’s creek without a paddle. He lets his hatred for Andrew prevent the York girls from doing any engagements (IDK how interested either of them are in it *now*, since they’ve both moved on with their own lives and families, but a few years ago, they probably would have been willing, and then continued when needed.) It’s not their fault their parents are awful. So now has absolutely ZERO backup. Well done King Chucklefuck.
@Blithe: It also dawned on me that a title being left “dormant” with no one to embody it and make it meaningful, is doomed to die. The reason the public knows about that duchy is because everyone bears in mind the tall, fine-looking, French-speaking, brash Duke of Edimburgh.
I don’t know what your thought might be on the matter, but I am under the impression that this Charles’ Edimburgh title hoarding, is likely to reverberate on Wales and prompt the Welsh to rebel: “We’re getting envious of Scotland, we don’t want any of you, Brittons, to hold our title either. Drop both.”
The lack of political anticipation on king Chuck Un’s part, combined with the tyrannical flavor of his rash punitive decision-making, is all that is required for the monarchy not to outlive William. It doesn’t take psychic powers to foresake the BM’s crumbling down is imoending by its king’s own doing.
I think it’s being kept for George. Louis is unlikely to be expected to work and Charlotte ranks ahead of him and won’t get her own title herself unless somehow they revamp all the sexist parts relating to titles.
Charlotte will be named Princess Royal once Anne passes away and William is King.
Depending on when Charles passes? George will be Duke of Cornwall and Prince f Wales, so it makes more sense for Duke of E to be for Louis. W&K aren’t going to put up with THEIR kids not getting titles.
Could the DoE title be given to Charlotte’s husband when she marries? Or is that restricted to the male heirs only?
Although by that time there may not be an Edinburgh they are Dukes of if Scotland gets its independence by then.
Lucky Charm, you have likely just hit the nail on the head of the conversations Chuck is having right now. He actually wants to act like he is protecting an empire, capital E, when he has exactly one country, Britain, because there is no U.K., anymore. They just haven’t caught up yet.
Pay attention to math in school, George! It matters, in real life.
My money is NEITHER will get it.
I think Scotland will have another referendum before Louis is of age, and this time it will pass. I think there was still some loyalty in Scotland for Liz, but now that she’s gone and with Brexit, a lot fewer Scots want to stay.
My money is no more Scottish titles.
@Larak, ITA, which this makes this an even stupider move on Charles’s part. He could have just let Edward have it as promised, securing his and Sophie’s goodwill, knowing it would be worthless soon anyway.
So where is all the outrage that KC isn’t respecting QE’s wishes? What disrespect to her memory. This is just an excuse. The DoE could be a normal duke title like many others in the UK. It doesn’t have to be seen as “royal”. And I bet Louis eventually ends up with it. I bet also that there is plenty about KC that E&S find distasteful. KC will keep the titles for himself and will decrease working royals but not the SG and keep all the money for himself.
The outrage is on Twitter for sure but no BM outrage shows they think the Wessexes know their place, be a work horse for the Crown.
I do wonder if the old gossip about Edward (which wouldn’t be an issue in this day and age) is the reason why Charles and the establishment are keen to keep Edward sidelined and his children “not royals”.
What is the old gossip?
Well Charles has the same rumors about him, so….
@MTOS That Edward is gay.
Thank you, DemoCat… that is something I never heard about Edward… I have heard stories about Charlie but not Ed.
seems unlikely at this juncture — and surely we have evolved past speculating on sexuality.
British comedians used to joke about Edward being gay before he married. If he is, it’s a tragedy he couldn’t be his true self.
This whole title debacle is a manufactured class system. Since they literally invent these titles, I don’t see any reason we shouldn’t invent alternative titles for them and refer to them only by our invented titles.
#PrinceOfPegging
#PrincessDoolittle
#KingTampon
#QueenConcubine
You should read the comments in the Daily Mail. The outrage is explosive.
Of course it is. Really rich white people are being denied things, older, really, really rich white people promised them.
The planet is agog.
/ffs
I hope Philip and Elizabeth haunt him in ugly ways for the rest of his life. They wanted Edward to be Duke of Edinburgh, just as Andrew is Duke of York.
This is super shitty on Charles’ part; this was something agreed to by his mother, father and him in 1999 and going back on it is super crappy and petty.
I don’t think this is about slimming down the monarchy or the aristocracy or whatever. I think William wants the title for George or Louis and Charles agreed in exchange for……something. William staying married? IDK.
Yeah I agree that Cain wants the title for one of his kids. It’s sad that he has done this to his brother esp as it was the wish of both parents and also because Edward does A LOT for the DoE award scheme (as does Sophie). Edward took it over from his father partly as it was expected he’d get the title.
Makes you wonder what else Chuck has or has promised to give the Keens in exchange for them stepping up – so far the Keens have renegaded on their part of the bargain.
Also, to add I can also see Peggy and Mutton going after the Princess Royal title for Charlotte – you know they want it. The Duke of York titles will return to the crown once he passes so Louis will get those. But then again it could be that they decided to retire the DoY titles due to Andrew. If Chuck doesn’t retire it (the DoE title) it will go to George as its a senior title.
People forget that the Edinburgh title had only been used 3 times. Before Phil it was created in 1866 by Queen Vic for her 2nd son Alfred. Before that in 1726 when King George 1 who gave it to his grandson Prince Frederick (heir apparent of George 2) who died before he could become King.
The princess Royal stays with Anne for life but it is likely Charlotte gets it after that. It’s still not the same as a dukedom though and that makes things weird if Louis gets one but higher ranked Charlotte doesn’t. There is a lot of sexism in that system.
As long as they’re hoarding titles, maybe name Charlotte Duchess of Cambridge in her own right.
I could be way off here, but I don’t think William cares about this title stuff for his kids. Now that the Duchy of Cornwall money has been secured, his main concerns are minimizing contact with Princess Bitch-DO MORE and gadflying Harry whenever possible.
Charles gets to stick it to his parents (who didn’t show him any love) and his brother (who received the parental love Charles didn’t get). Another day, another petty display. Then again, I’m not losing any sleep over Edward’s misfortune.
I’m not so sure about Charlotte getting the Princess Royal title. It’s not automatic, and even Anne only got it in her late 30’s. As I recall, at the time it was framed as a great honour, awarded to Anne in recognition of her work. But I guess it will be in William’s gift once he’s king, so who knows.
Anne could have been given it in 1965 when the previous one passed (iirc). Anne got the princess royal title when she did (1987) because she pitched a fit at QEII about Diana and Fergie being more popular. QEII awarded it to her then to 1) appease her and 2) distinguish her from the two popular married-ins. William cannot award it until 1) he is king and 2) after Anne passes away.
I don’t see how this has anything to do with ‘slimming down’, we still have the same number of royals. It’s 100% family power politics and C3 being a petty and vindictive man who has to buy his sons loyalty.
I hope these vipers completely destroy themselves.
Exactly this. And the amount of the sovereign grant goes up every single year, no matter how much lip service is paid to “slimming down”.
@Christine exactly. IDK why no one ever calls Charles out on this — if the number of working royals is going to be “slimmed down” (and it’s waaaay more “slimmed down” than he originally planned when he came up with the idea decades ago, considering the departure of the Sussexes and Andrew being…uh, unavailable) — how has no media organization asked, “okay, then how much will the SG be “slimmed down” in proportion?” Instead, it keeps INCREASING, even though Betty mismanaged it horribly.
I would imagine that even the staunchest royalist would agree that they should not keep receiving the same amount of ££ for far fewer people. It’s common freaking sense.
Also, they haven’t let go of any properties and that has to be where most of the expense is.
The exchange was William having a press conference to tell the world his mother was paranoid, and the Panoramic interview was done out of deceit. How did his telling that to the world benefit him? it didn’t, it befitted Charles and Camilla. Paint Diane as crazy to make it easier for the country to accept Queen Camilla. That’s one of the reasons William and Kate got their titles upgraded before the Queen’s body was cold.
The agreement w William in exchange for him staying married makes the most sense. Unless Chuckles is totally delusional and thinks the DoE title is a way to lure Harry back. But overall it is amazing to see the karma take hold of The Wessexes who sided w the Drab Four for nothing. They all deserve each other.
I think you may be on to something. Chuck really doesn’t understand that Harry isn’t obsessed with titles, so bc chuck is, he probably believes he can lure Harry back to be DoE. It could also be that since Scotland is pushing again to remove the monarchy and leave Great Britain, giving Eddie the forgotten and sophiesta those titles would cause outrage. Plus Chuck is a petty pos and doesn’t like Eddie or Sophie
That was my thought too. He wants to bribe Harry with it.
Is there an income that come with this title?
@JD- I actually think Charles ALREADY offered Harry the DoE. Right before the Queen died, when Harry & Meghan were in the UK, Charles made a big show of inviting H&M to Balmoral (they didn’t go). LITERALLY the next day, Charles was telling the world that he would “freeze out” the Sussexes. Why the big 180° degree change?? I think that when H&M refused to come to Balmoral, Charles settled for offering them the DoE over the phone or something, which they turned down. That explains Charles nastiness so soon after, AND explains his INSISTANCE that he insult and try to humiliate H&M as much as possible during the queens funeral events. He was still FURIOUS that they turned it down. He knows that almost any other royal as DoE would lead to Scottish independence, quick!
You guys are completely on the wrong track. Let’s try to keep our speculating within reason. The scenarios being suggested about Harry ‘turning down’ the DoE title amidst rejecting an invite to Balmoral, are laughable. 🤪 The BRF and BM circus is crazy enough as is, without resorting to inane theories and suppositions about Charles’ intents and motivations.
Harry is The Duke of Sussex. End of. In no way would the Edinburgh title ever be offered to Harry!!! Especially not as some kind of lure. That’s ridiculous. Harry has a dukedom already, and he won’t be offered another one. That’s not how these titles work. 🙄
Oooooh! @Annalise!
I wonder though if when they all made the decision, they didn’t think the queen and Philip would live to be nearly 100 years old. If they had died 20 years ago, when William was still at university, it would’ve made more sense to give a 40-something year old Edward a Duke title bc all 4 siblings would basically be the major senior working royals and the younger generation would all still be too young to work. Now there’s William and Kate, and they have 3 kids with titles already, so the “working royal” branch is more focused on William’s generation and less on Charles’ generation? Edward basically just missed his time as the “important working exciting royals” has moved down to the next generation.
I still think it’s a mean thing to do though, since everyone agreed on it beforehand.
@Amy — this is the most reasonable take. The plan in 1999 makes little sense in 2022, not to mention the optics of handing out a Dukedom right now would be terrible.
Optics of giving PW the POW title were terrible also but that didn’t hinder KC.
Yes I agree that it’s super shitty on chucky part . But it was shittier to break your wedding vows. So really why does anyone expect anything more from a man who cheated on his wife constantly.
Both can be true. Charles can be a shitty human being and he can also be shrinking the monarchy, or at least, the monarchy’s footprint. Limiting titles, selling off horses – those are just the small beginnings. I’m expecting him to start offloading properties and drop-kicking patronages. He’s too old to be spread so thin and he has to prepare the throne for W&K who will always be irredeemably lazy. The “important” tasks are political meetings, state visits and diplomatic travel – not supermarket openings. Sadly, W&K are not fit for that, which is why the door is still open for Harry – but the concept isn’t a bad one, even if some of the actors are mediocre.
What properties do you see him offloading? And to who? The state? The only way I see that is if it financially benefits him in the long run.
I don’t think H & M will be able to return. The country and world are too aware to not notice W&K doing all the supermarket, empty-handed Ukrainian center visits while P & H do the heavy lifting and not praise them for it which would highlight W&K aren’t up for those tasks and diminish their sovereign respectability and dull their shine. By nature of who P & H are they will garner accolades and admiration through natural charisma and because they actually care! There is no way for them not to be elevated as working royals over the sovereign royals….that’s how that mess started. The BM will have to stir up drama, tell sexist lies about K & M drama to make things sexy.
Honestly, the best scenario of H &M supporting the monarchy might be for H & M to live abroad and be half in and focus on international stuff while W&K focus on affairs at home and the BRF willing to dispel any lies or drama stirred up to pit or elevate them over each other. They’re not really in the same “department” and they’re doing different things. They’re not really around each other for obvious conflict or tales to be told. They can’t work together both because they’re not in the same headspace for viewing or approaching things but also because W&K are superficial lightweights and can’t handle any comparison where they look less than in comparison. It’s all so petty and sad and based in the tradition of optics.
@Jais – Charles has said something before about turning BP into a museum, for instance. The Crown properties belong to the state anyway, so why deal with staffing and management for places he doesn’t like or want to use? As for private properties, I don’t think he much cares for Balmoral, either. I’m not saying he’ll have a fire sale, but my tiara tells me he’s been thinking for a long time about how he would manage things differently than his mother.
@KC – I agree that H&M won’t go back. But I think Charles is keeping the door open. He’s doing it stupidly by being a bully, which is why we get this back and forth of love and threats.
I think not giving the D of E title to Edward despite the queen expressing this as part of her wishes is a stark reminder to Harry that the further you are away from the direct line the less guarantee you have of anything. Harry doesn’t care about another title and if he is treated this poorly when his own father is king, he knows how much worse it will be when his jealous elder brother William has more power.
Harry and Meghan are never returning to the Uk in any kind of royal capacity again. At best an exceptional one time event and even now it’s not very likely he attends the coronation.
There’s been talk of Charles turning Sandringham into a full time…..something….museum maybe? It is open to the public some days but I imagine it’s a very small part of the house that’s open. Having more of it open, especially around Christmas, would be a big draw IMO (“look how the Queen celebrated Xmas for decades!!”) Now it’s a private residence, so that’s not going to help slim down anything, lol, but I think that might be the kind of thing we see from Charles.
@ KC. There are two reasons H&M can not come back to be working royals: 1. Public opinion -The UK taxpayers do not approve of the Sussexes.
2. Trust- The BRF can’t trust H&M to respect their privacy
@Becks1 – the Castle of Mey is a model of what he might do. Originally bought by the QM in the 50’s, she deeded it to a trust in the 1990’s – of which Charles was the president. In 2019, the trust was incorporated into the Prince’s Foundation – which also includes Dumfries House (also formerly a stand alone trust).
Like Dumfries, though on a much, much smaller scale, Mey is being developed as a tourist destination (weddings, small bed and breakfast, gardens), an education center, and also a center for breeding and preservation of particular breeds of cattle and sheep, supposedly with an eye to being self sustaining, though I’ve wondered before if some of the behind the scenes slush money goes to supporting these projects (there was a massive loan to be paid back for the purchase of Dumfries). I don’t understand the economic ins and outs of the way these are handled, especially the financial aspects (I assume the benefits are substantial) of turning private property into a public trust. Mey is “recognized by the Inland Revenue as [a] Scottish charity…” In any event, Charles has experience “repurposing” these kinds of properties…(though I thought as king this was one of the things he’d no longer have time to do).
Nicole Noel, I have no idea what the uk taxpayers think, but I believe you meant that H&M cannot trust the brf. It’s been proven that the royals leak everything and make up anything to make it into a negative. That’s why H&M don’t tell the royals what they’re doing. Since they left, they have full control of what ends up in the media about their appearances. The bm has not stopped in all of these years doing everything they can to smear the Sussexes. We saw firsthand that the brf did all they could to humiliate H&M during the funeral. If you think they will ever trust any of the brf, except for Eugenie and possibly Beatrice, you are in for a shock.
My understanding of how Philip and Liz wanted it to work was: Charles automatically inherited the title (as oldest son) on Philip’s death, and after Charles became King (when his lesser titles reverted to the crown and became available for him to “gift” to people), Charles was supposed to hand out the DofE to Ed and let him take on the charitable endeavors associated with that title.
I personally don’t like the monarchy and all the silly titles…but for Charles to publicly dismiss his parent’s wishes like that is pretty cold.
Ed and Sophie have really been bowing and scraping lately; if they’re not doing it for the title, I wonder if they’re doing it to keep their housing?
It’s not just dismissing their wishes, he AGREED to the plan – it’s there in the declaration that the POW agreed. Ugly.
This point keeps being made and I do agree it’s nasty to go back on your word but these people don’t live with honor so it’s not shocking.🤷🏾♀️ I also have 2 counterpoints ….
1-The PoW signed that I can see him saying/reasoning “well I don’t see him here. Wills aren’t YOU the PoW, did you sign this? Well you didn’t sign this and I’m THE KING so I do what I want and it’s not this!”
2-He IS the king. He has other ideas for running the monarchy. His mother can’t be expected to rule beyond the grave. He may have signed it to give his aged parents some peace. He may have signed it and from then to now thought better of it. If he honestly thinks that’s not a great idea and he has a better one, I think it’s fine for him to do something different. I just can’t tell if it’s for that reason or pettiness.
I think Chuck didn’t do the title upgrade for the Wessexes because he didn’t want the lack of titles for Archie and Lili come back into the conversation, I have no pity for Sophie considering how she treated Meghan. Welcome to karma.
So Sophie mistreated Meghan! I was not aware of that. Then to hell with Sophie, karma is bitch.
Sophie is the senior royal generally credited with calling Meghan a “degree wife”, meaning the marriage would only last as long as it takes to get a degree.
She totally iced Meghan and Harry at the Commonwealth church service, it was embarrassing it was so obvious. Ditto at the Queen’s funeral service. There are pictures of Meghan and Sophie in the same limo going to and from the service and the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Sophie has learned and mastered the art of the “hatchet face” from Kate.
there was also that “Oprah Who?” comment made by Sofiesta. she’s just as bad as all the rest of them. I’d have to go look to be sure, but wouldn’t be surprised if she was also pulling faces at M&H’s wedding.
I agree that Charles painted himself in that corner over not granting titles to Archie and Lily allegedly because of the slimmed down monarchy reason. Pretty bad optics to be handing out a dukedom to his brother since denying his own grandchildren.
If King Charles III is willing to screw his own son Harry over titles and royal allowances why wouldn’t he do the same to the Wessexes? At least Edward and Sophie were obedient to the new king and they still got done wrong.
Ditto.
Edward filmed William without permission while he was attending uni in Scotland.
Did William hold on to the grudge and now made it easier for his father to screw over the Wessexes, not to mention the Yorks?
Ultimately, it was Charles descresction to keep his word.
He chose not to do so, with the intent to disinherit his son.
Oh! To be petty and loving it.
@Well Wisher, that’s interesting. *I’D* completely forgotten about the incident with the filming at St. Andrew’s, but I wonder if it isn’t still an incredibly sore spot for both William and Charles, and colors the way they deal with Edward to this day.
^^ That incident and its aftermath happened a long time ago. Will is now in his 40s, and frankly, he has turned into a worse human being than his Uncle Edward! While Edward sneakily doing the filming at St. Andrews likely isn’t forgotten, I don’t think it was something that continued to fester after Edward was dressed down for it, and the business endeavor ultimately went kaput for him.
The DOE title wasn’t the queens to give. It’s the property of Charles once Prince Philip died. That’s the law. Edward already has a double earldom titles. That’s enough. Once Edward, Will, and Harry all had sons him getting that dukedom was DOA. They are running out of dukedoms to give.
Yeah I’m Pretty sure the Queen knew the law, that’s why it was presented as her wish that Edward got the title in the future after getting married.
This wouldn’t look as petty if it was presented as something like “going forward the intention is only the direct heirs will become dukes” ie Louis will be an Earl as well.
Both Edward and Sophie are insufferable. They thought they were special, trashing Harry and Meghan in the media. Doing the drab 4’s bidding. They get what they deserve. Which is nothing. I don’t feel bad for either of them. What you do onto others comes back to you.
I think the Queen and Prince Phillip made this all too complicated. They should have just gave him another dukedom outright. Then this wouldn’t have been issue.
Not just her wish! The then POW agreed to it. Apparently that means nothing.
@Becks1, do you think that Sophie and Edward will eventually switch sides to Meghan and Harry? What would that include?
@SussexFan no I don’t think so. They need the sovereign grant money too much to walk away from it. I do wonder if we will see them start scaling back on their apperances and work.
If I’m Sophie, and I’m regularly working twice as much as Kate is, and I’m regularly going on solo international tours, and she has the title and the money and I’m being sidelined in terms of titles etc, then I’m going to be pissed and I might sit a few plays out, you know?
Of course sophie knows the hierarchy and Kate has ALWAYS had a higher title than her and Kate was always at least going to be duchess of cornwall, but I can still see the whole thing rubbing her the wrong way, seeing the laziest person ever elevated to PoW while she’s told she won’t ever be a duchess as was promised.
All the bots on social media are repeating “the title wasn’t the Queen’s to give.” Apparently, the Queen, Philip and Charles didn’t know what they were doing when they all agreed to this years ago. It’s pure deflection from Charles not being a man of his word.
As was that article in the DM, saying how Edward knew about this because he didn’t accept titles for his kids. Charles went back on his word, period. But as Over It mentioned above, he went back on his marriage vows, so what else should we expect.
The 1999 press release is pretty clear as to the Queen’s intentions relating to the title Duke of Edinburgh. Even if the title was not technically hers to give, her wishes were ignored by Charles.
Thank you @zebz for clarifying. Always good to be informed and educated.
I don’t understand about running out of Dukedoms. They are just made up titles with no real land or money or power, why can’t Charles just make up a new one if he wants to give one to someone? “I hereby dub thee, my grandson, Duke of Buttsnuffle” or whatever. Bam, there you go, new dukedom.
@Chaine
“Duke of Buttsnuffle” 😆😆😆😆😆
I.AM.DECEASED.
@Chaine, I don’t get that either. Didn’t the Queen literally make up the title “Earl of Wessex” for Ed because he’d seen it in a movie?
There’s plenty of Royal duekdoms to choose from. Historically, Kent, Gloucester, and York get used the most. But Clarence has been in and out of use for 500 years and the Hanoverians added a bunch because they had so many sons: Albany, Cumberland, Cambridge, Sussex, Avondale, Strathearn.
Earl of Wessex was a real (historical) title but Edward saw it in shakespeare in love and liked it.
Hugh Jackman’s title in the movie Kate and Leopold was Leopold Mountbatten, Duke of Albany. Maybe that would appeal to Edward! Also in and out of use, last held 100 years ago. Charles would have to recreate it; presumably, if he wanted to, as a substitute for giving Edward Edinburgh, he would already have done so. Someone in that family is going to have to do some work, why piss off Edward and Sophie anymore than necessary? (I’m talking from a practical point of view. Personally, I’m fine with E&S getting a taste of their own medicine.)
Albany has an interesting history; apparently originally Scottish, one of the first dukedoms created, along with the Dukedom of Rothesay (now held by Charles). It was periodically combined with York in the English peerage, as in, Duke of York and Albany. Seems like it would fit for Edward to have that…
@Cairidh, I don’t know why this is so funny to me, but it is. Shakespeare in Love? Royals really ARE just like us! lmfao
Edward is so basic. (As is his bore of a wife.)
I know it’s crazy and makes no sense but they genuinely are running out of dukedoms. Kent and Gloucester are taken, they won’t be royal dukedoms after the present holders die but the descendants will still be dukes. Irish titles like Connaught are out. A number (Albany, Cumberland) were suspended in WWI due to being held by Germans and can’t be awarded now as there are German claimants, including Prince Ernst (ew). York will revert to the Crown (unless Andrew has a male child, heaven help us) but Andrew could live a long time, he doesn’t drink and is held together mostly by spite. Cambridge is held, as is Sussex, and they both have male descendants to pass the title to.
At this point the only available title is Duke of Clarence, if Edinburgh is not available. You can’t just make up titles, they have to relate to real places and most real places in the UK are already taken, whether with non-royal dukedoms (Bedford, Norfolk, Somerset), marquessates, earldoms etc. It was really stupid of Charles to agree to this in 1999 because someone should have seen this coming.
@EBS,they can always bring back the Duke of Windsor title. Reclaim it, like some women are reclaiming the B word.
@Arhena, never going to happen. They’re reluctant to use Clarence because of the last title holder, and that was over a century ago and almost no one remembers it. The last thing they want to do is bring back references to an abdicated traitor.
Who cares whether it’s the law or whether it’s the queen’s to give? As Oprah said, doesn’t the queen get to do what the queen wants? Seriously though, where’s the love and respect for the queen’s wishes? Remember this when Harry’s memoir comes out and the BM is crying over the disrespect for the recently passed queen. That there’s no outrage for the denial of the late queen’s wishes in this case tells you all you need to know.
Exactly. To use their verbiage, the queen’s getting “slapped” all over the place, and there’s *crickets* from the usual suspects.
I don’t feel sorry at all for Sophie, she teamed up with mumbles to mean girl Meghan thinking she would be rewarded.
This x 💯. Sophie is a racist bore. This is karma for how she treated Meghan!
I think they were quite dim to trust that a written promise would be carried out by Chuck when Liz passed. And if Liz really wanted to ensure it happened, could she not have done more to do so??? Once the parents are gone it is a free for all and this den of thieves knew they would be at the mercy of Chuck. Oddly enough, Mistress Cams got the title Chuck wanted for her but his sibling didn’t.
The queen could not redirect the way the dukedom of Edinburgh would be transferred to once Philip passed unless she overhauled all the laws of male primogeniture. However, she could have made Edward Duke of Wessex. She didn’t and it seems she trusted Charles to honour her wishes once she passed. He didn’t.
Now I don’t feel that bad for the Wessexes based on their snotty behaviour over time, but it does look bad that both Edward and Sophie have been doing hundreds of engagements per year, Sophie even doing solo visits that have substance and aren’t just going down slides, whereas the direct heir and his wife attend sports events and movie premieres and little else. Karma has a long list and while the Wessexes got burned it doesn’t mean they won’t be the only ones.
One thing is for sure and that’s the fact that Betty is rolling in her grave and has been ever since the moment Charles ascended and started fcking things up.
Honestly, while Sophie and Edward are cringe, holding the titles for himself is just petty AF. So the slimmed down agenda is more about reducing the number of people who hold royal titles. Why? I thought the idea was a cost savings environment carbon footprint thing. So slim down your Private Jet use. Slim down Kate’s clothing and jewelry budget. Slim down your extravagant holidays. Don’t upset your family by taking away something that means something to them and that they were promised, even if it is weird and they are jerks. You are giving more to your pedo brother. Less royals doesn’t mean less cost. It means kate will just spend more.
@Slippers exactly. Sophie was a bitch in public to Meghan (ignoring her at the Commonwealth service, while Edward did talk to them). And I think she is the one who made the degree wife comment, based on nothing but my own thoughts LOL.
(Although someone said she was the first one to visit Archie when he was born?)
Anyway regardless I can think Sophie is a bitch but also think Charles is being petty and useless here. Not giving Edward the title doesn’t slim down the monarchy. Cutting down the monarchy’s costs is slimming down the monarchy. James is never going to be a working royal, whether he inherits a dukedom or not.
You are correct @becks1, just as the Gloucester and Kent dukedoms will no longer be royal dukedoms once the current two Dukes pass away. There are still other royal duke titles they can use, they can revive the Duke of Clarence title which hasn’t been used since the 19th Century, and also the Duke of Albany. Charles is just being a petty jerk.
Charles reneges on everything. He cannot be trusted. He backstabs and plays dumb. Ruthless tyrant (if he actually had and political sway). He’s flat out writing his own history then complaining that it makes him look bad.
Sophie was probably first to visit Archie to report on his colour.
@esline mills
That was my first thought. How very sad.
It would still be a royal dukedom if James got it since technically he is an HRH even if not sttled as such. It is only when the inheritor is not an HRH that the dukedom isn’t royal anymore, which is what will happen when Gloucester and Kent are passed down.
I suspect some of this relates to the confusion of James and Louise being HRH. In addition to being petty.
There’s a claimant to Albany, Prince Hubertus (it was suspended in WWI). If Edinburgh is not available, Clarence is the only one.
Very well said!!!👏👏👏… especially, since both the sophie and Edward continue to ” work”for the crown … no matter how sophie treated Meghan, at least she is definitely more visible than the wails…
Normally, I’d think this is sh*tty of Charles to treat Edward and Sophie this way. However, after the way they treated Harry and Meghan, hahahahahahaha.
Edward and Sophie bet on the wrong horse and that horse bit them in the behind. Guess they’ll need to study Harry and Meghan’s exit plan to see if they can pull off something similar.
Sucks to be them.
They tried to be independent, but the Queen had to save both of them from bankruptcy.
Eddie is a doofus, FF was always a back biting witch, there is video of her selling out the royal family to prop up her business, she didn’t know it was a reporter she was talking to.
Their charities made so little money, that they didn’t have to file financials.
Edward did strike out on his own with Ardent productions in the 90’s I believe…Needless to say it failed and he went running back to mummy!
I seem to remember Ardent Productions filmed Wills at school against their (Charlie&Willy) wishes/agreement w/Rota and things got ugly for a while. Is this payback for way back then?
Maybe that is what got him into trouble with Bill?
You need charisma to do what Harry and Meghan are doing. I don’t see the Wessexes achieving success in that area. They may need to resort to dishing dirt.
I hope the Queen took care of the non-heirs financially BEFORE she passed, because Charles is keeping it all for himself and Baldy.
Petty Betty wasn’t the brightest and just like she trusted chucky to give Eddie the forgotten the DoE she probably also expects chucky financially support him. She most likely gave them nothing thinking the SG will cover them.
If he slashes the amount of $ Ed/ Sophie get then what will E/S do for $? They may end up
Writing books/ questionable ads?
Charles should probably keep paying them or else they may go the Tindall route of making $. It would be more entertaining for us/ viewers but for a hassle free reign for himself he might want to consider long term consequences.
I wonder about money as well. Bagshot Park is huge and expensive to maintain with lots of staff to pay to keep things going. They have no income except for the Sovereign Grant. Now what? Harry and Meghan made a good call by being the first to bail and earn their own fortune.
Charles knows they won’t make a squeak. The Wessexes have two kids they have to educate and shepherd into adulthood. If Ed and Ford Fiesta write tell all books or act scandalously then it will taint the kids. So I bet they’ll do as they are told and be grateful for whatever scraps they get, unless the queen left them a pile of money. And maybe that was the deal, they won’t get a better title but the queen left them and their kids set for life. I bet it must kill Sophie to know that at least for now, Meghan is a duchess while she, the queen’s “favorite daughter in law” is not. Lol!
+1 Not only that, but Meghan doesn’t have to kiss any of their butts to get a check. Lives in sunny California while being the Duchess of Sussex, in a country she doesn’t reside in. Now that’s how you clear a Ford Fiesta.
I doubt Chas told his mother he was not living up to the plan. Clearly the wessexes did not know POW was going to renege on the written plan that he agreed to. They were out there giving interviews about taking on the mantle after PP’s death. So they didn’t know, and if they didn’t know then likely QE didn’t know either.
So I doubt QE left them extra money in lieu of the title.
But yeah Sophie is not a good person. Maybe I feel a bit sorry for Edward.
@lulululubrown, since they’re both married-ins, and Sophie is only a Countess does she have to curtsy to Meghan who’s a Duchess?
Sophie’s title doesn’t matter. She has to curtsy to Meghan (when Meghan is with Harry) because Harry is higher in the line of succession than Edward. If Sophie is with Edward and Meghan is alone? Meghan curtsys to the two of them.
@notasugarhere — but what’s the expectation when Meghan and Sophie meet alone, without either of their husbands present?
@blithe – Meghan out ranks Sophie. The order of precedence has the queen at the top (currently Camilla), then the dowager queen (currently none), then the wives of the monarch’s sons by order (so Kate first, then Meghan), and THEN the wives of the monarch’s brothers. So the king’s daughtes-in-law outrank the king’s sisters-in-law.
After all the bitchy work FF did on behalf of Windsors and not a tittle in sight.
All the Queen’s and Philip’s children are horrible, cheaters, bullies, bores, dishonest and the list goes on.
Tampon get credit for the Prince Charity helping disadvantaged youth, but if someone was to do a dip dive into the financials, they would find that he was using it as a slush fund for himself.
I would add to that it’s not simply TQ and Phillip’s children it is “the monarchy and aristocrats” this is how they live -without honor. I was wrapping up a historical mystery last week centered on QE (1st?) and William Craven’s supposed romance. Supposedly after her husband died the two fell in love and she begged him to marry her instead of go off to war. They were together for quite and the ongoing point of contention between them was she refused to publicly announce/acknowledge the marriage and was fine with looking like she just had a lover and he was a kept man. It came up enough times with explanations that you do your duty to marry and produce heirs to propagate the kingdom and then, you find romance and love on the side. It was an accepted and expected way of life. She was willing to cause him to change his life, forsake any heirs, and she would not publicly claim him because her duty (from God, no less) was the kingdom, she couldn’t risk it all, even though she was a widow with grown children, by marrying a carpenters son! To this day everyone knows they were close but no one knows what really went down.
Regardless, it really impressed upon me how much of an other and outsider BOTH H & M were/are. It’s said his rift with his brother started early when W tried to dissuade him from marrying M. That’s because Wills didn’t get it! You marry an English rose, have heirs then live it up as discreetly as possible. I honestly think TQ kinda got it particularly because of Margaret’s marriage scandal and 8 year long happy romance with a gardener 15-19 years her Junior. She knew how hard it was to find love as a royal but H was her favorite and just a spare so she gave him his blessing to be with his twin flame. His mum wanted a man who loved her. She understood too late that love and faithfulness wasn’t something that was valued or guaranteed between a royal husband and wife.
H & M’s kids might be the only ones that don’t live like that but it would be because their parents were ostracized for finding and pursuing it and determined for them to have freedoms that would afford them the same. Their dad laid down his life for the good of the woman he loved and his family and many in his culture berate and belittle him for it. They villainized his mother for simply being the object of his affection (which they couldn’t fathom in a wife) and portrayed her as a narcissistic, bewitching, manipulator all while wishing her and the children away and the pure unsullied royal to return without her. Honor, vows, and integrity in relationships are not something this set understands or practices. KC doing this to Edward and Sophie, Edward and Sophie piling on the Sussexes only to be cast aside in the end, it’s all par for the cost in the way this family’s values are instilled. The Sussexes did a hard but good thing for their love and family.
‘Slimmed down monarchy’ is a ridiculous excuse. It doesn’t cost anything extra to have a Duke of Edinburgh. There’s no money attached to the title. It’s merely prestige. They’re already doing the work the Duke did with the DofE award.
Charles is being petty. Particularly because he really needs more senior working Royals than he has to spread the load.
Does he really think William’s kids will be enough, in 20 years’ time, to keep the family business going? Any of them could shy away from the life and create a scandal or just decide they want out. There’s a reason why you need a few spare Royals around.
Maybe it’s more about the Sovereign Grant and who are “working royals?” It doesn’t cost extra to have a DofE, but it costs extra to have another senior royal. I figure that along with “slimmed down monarchy” we’ll see “slimmed down responsibilities.”
I would hope then that Edward & Sophie stopped doing whatever they were doing on behalf of the DoE Awards. No title, no work. No SG money, no work. Done.
This family just makes sh!t up as it goes along. Edward and Sophie have been working royals for ages. They were part of the “Magnificent (😂) Seven.” Sophie frequently goes on tours. The DoE title was irrelevant.
But if they were expecting it and now Charles is reneging on his word, maybe they will stop hustling quite so much. I sure would.
Thank you KT for pointing this out! There are no estates, land or money attached to this title but as Edward was supposedly Philip’s favorite son there is affection tied to this title. So really it’s not about a “slimmed down monarchy” but a way for Charles to get back at his father. Very similar to how Charles started selling off his mothers most loved possessions, her race horses. These are actions of a petty child lashing out, 70 years later, at his parents who weren’t there for him, didn’t understand him and didn’t hold much affection for him.
I think this DOE action is very petty and wrong of him to go back on his written agreement. But selling off the racehorses? That just seems like execution of the estate. Why would he keep those operations running if it doesn’t interest him ?
@KT agreed, the number of times it has be dusted off and used.
Just an excuse.
I dont care at all for the Wessexes. but I dont think chuck’s long game is very smart. give them a lesser ducal title, say the Scottish dispute this one, and move on. no one likes him or will have any reason to be loyal to him. all these people know even more embarrassing secrets than what we already know.
Chuck’s too old to have a long game.
I’ve been wondering what would happen to all the royal Scottish titles if Scotland becomes a republic.
All that dissing and snubbing of Harry and Meghan and kissing KKKate and her rose pruning, temper tantrum, lazy husband was all for not. What a couple of clowns 🤡🤡
Eddie and Sophie should peace out as working royals. Edxit? No one will even notice they are gone.
Is Charles looking at de Dutch Royals maybe ? There is just de Heir that gets funding, that’s it , no titles,state houses, all other royals apart from de Heir have to.work.
Sophie going forward simply isnt a senior royal now. Sorry….
The BRF funding for siblings is private from the Duchy of Lancaster. The entire family except William and his heirs are now beholden to Charles, except those who left (the Sussexes), the York Princesses, the Wessexes children and the Princess Royal’s offsprings.
How would they then earn money? Lol this isn’t a rhetorical question but a serious one. If we were going to tell Eddie and Sophie to go get jobs, what jobs might they take? Assuming it would have to be jobs that could maintain the upkeep of bagshot park.
Sophie can become an influencer on Instagram. That should keep them all afloat.
I heard that “I’m a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here” is casting for its next season!
@ Harper – Sophiexit lol!
@Harper “Edxit” would be absolutely hilarious
Charles is such a petty little b.
Karma is a relaxing thought…
Chuckie’s envious that for him it’s not…
I’m not a fan of Edward and Sophie but this is as petty as it gets on Charles part. What an angry little man
Let’s just hope Charles, in his zeal to slim down the monarchy, accidentally disappears the whole thing. It’s only composed of a handful of people now, two of whom are allergic to anything that seems like work. And they’re all deadly dull as it is. This institution may soon be on life support.
This needs to be a movie. Like a Royal version of “Click.” Or more like “The Midas Touch.” Except with “The Charles Touch,” instead of turning everything he touches into gold, Chuck turns everything he touches “Non-Royal”. Before long he is turning his palaces into row houses and his wife into plain old Camilla, until finally he accidentally touches himself and instantly becomes a pensioner living on the outskirts of Manchester.
I think this is more likely than not. What if the Wales kids turn out to be lazy like their parents? What if Charlotte & Louis want to do other things with their lives? It seems like a gamble. It also seems like Charles & William have made a shaky deal to divide most royal resources between themselves & ice everyone else out.
Supposedly (per the DM) Charles was upset that Anne, Andrew & Edward had a shooting trip together. His controlling nature knows no bounds.
And how is it even slimming down the monarchy if he’s not taking less money and turning over palaces and castles to the public? It the usual performative bs from the royals.
Seriously cold. I realize there is a streamlining effort going on…but this has been a long-agreed upon issue. And there is so much sentimentality in it. Edward taking over Philip’s title that Elizabeth shared before she was queen. Charles really is heartless.
Elizabeth should have given the title to Edward right after Philip passed. She knows how her oldest son is. That’s on her. She had the ability to do it but choose not.
The Queen couldn’t just “give” it to Edward when Philip died. As Philip’s eldest son, Charles automatically inherited the title. Her mistake was trusting that Charles would keep his word. As others have said, the Queen should have just given Edward a different dukedom if she really wanted him to have one. I really don’t see why the 4th child of a monarch really needs to be a Duke but I guess a promise is a promise…
As has been explained, she couldn’t give DOE. It was inherited by Chas. BUT she could have given him a different title I suppose upon his father’s death.
She could have given Edward another Dukedom and elevated his children when she was still alive and she choose not to.
Was there ever any doubt Charles was a bastard? Looking at how he treated his ex-wife and how he now treats his youngest son should have made things clear. But I bet he will still have a long line of sycophants like Judi Dench to stick up for him. They’ll probably start spreading stories about how the Wessexes never deserved a higher title anyway.
For his whole life, Charles has been thinking, “When I’m King, I’ll fix this, do that, change the other.” He’s finally King, but now in his 70’s – there’s not a lot of time to make the changes he wants. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a cold-hearted bastard, just that he’s a cold-hearted bastard with a timetable.
You know they all talk so much trash about Harry, but there must be such envy that he had the guts to leave and break out. Just look at what a lifetime of service to The Crown gets you…DUST. Charles just told Edward and his son they ain’t worth it.
As for Louis getting the title – who knows if that will even be an option. By the time we get there – it may just be George with any kind of title to hold.
The real problems is that the “slimmed down monarchy” does not mean what Charles wants people to assume.
Less dukes out there does not make the Royal Familly less expensive.
Brits will continue to pay for their upkeep and the costs will continue to increase. In fact, the costs per capita will be greater as there will be less and less dukes to handle bread and butter engagment, the same engagments that partially explain the existence of a Royal Family to begin with in the ehad of the tradional folks, the ones who claim to enjoy the ” pageantry” and have no mind about what ” Empire” truly means for PoC as long as they can continue to pretend to be important.
” The title was not hers (TQ) to give” they say, but that is why she did not give them, because it was her husband´s and because they were very aware of the rules of inheritance they were to follow they let it be written, with the agreement of their heir.
So, you either were in agreement and renegaded , Chuck, or you are calling your late mother stupid.
I agree that the monarchy should be slimmed down. The royal dukedoms were historically held by sons of the monarch. The Kent and Gloucester titles were given to the sons of George V and then passed to their sons. If Charles really wants to slim down the monarchy, then royal dukedoms should be returned to the crown once the monarch who gave the titles has passed away. That would solve the embarrassment of having Andrew still being called the Duke of York which is a title that should now belong to Harry if tradition is followed.
However, all the above is unlikely to happen and it is very petty not to give Edward the DoE title if that was the wish of the late queen and Prince Philip. Charles could have awarded the title but restricted the hereditary aspect.
Charles reneging on the 1999 agreement has nothing to do with ‘slimming down the monarchy,’ just as Charles snubbing his youngest son and his youngest grandchildren (Archie & Lili), has nothing to do with ‘slimming down the monarchy.’
Clearly, Charles’ refusal to abide by his parents’ wishes to which he had agreed, is all about bitterness and spite. Charles still carries grudges against his dead parents, especially against Philip. So during Charles’ lifetime, he may wish to ensure that the Edinburgh title is never used again.
The fact that Betty and Philip sentimentally wanted the title to be passed to Edward demonstrates their affection for Edward over their first son, Charles. Why did anyone ever think petty, selfish, bitter Charles would ultimately follow an agreement that’s indicative of his parents overlooking and dismissing him?! LOL!
Betty and Philip should have realized, especially later in their lives that Charles was not going to adhere to the agreement. They should have tried to make it legally binding. Or else, give Edward another dukedom. In fact, before the Queen died, it had been discussed in the media that Charles would go against his parents’ wishes. So Betty must have known. It’s curious why the Queen didn’t insist that Charles give Edward the Edinburgh title in exchange for her public announcement that Camilla would officially become Queen Consort with her blessing. Possibly though that was supposed to be the bargain. But mayhap Chuck decided to ignore yet another bargain after the Queen died! I wouldn’t put anything past Charles’ selfish, petty, greedy, grasping.
I think folks underestimate how extensively betty was managed & controlled by the men-in-grey who really run the monarchy. She initiated nothing. She only followed their advice and carried out their instructions for the 70yrs she’s been on the throne.
[Aside: this is why I’ve gone cold on Obama whom I used to love unconditionally. His overblown tribute to her on her death was sickening.]
So, the “agreement/promise” that Eddy wd be granted the DoE title by chucky3 when he became king, was the best solution tht betty’s advisors could come up wth bk in ’99. Even as monarch, the best she could do was depend on the honor of a son whom she knew had no honor.
I’m sure chucky3 enjoys the power he now has to expiate the anger and resentment he has harboured for his parents all his life.
I think any bargain TQ made in return for giving a thumbs up to Camilla being known as Queen Consort primarily had to do with Andrew. Possibly there was also something about Edward, but at that point she knew for sure Charles would sideline Andrew permanently, and he was the one she’d want to protect. Edward was still a working royal, and she knew without Harry, Charles/the monarchy needs him.
@Aftershocks, “Charles reneging on the 1999 agreement has nothing to do with ‘slimming down the monarchy”
…you are correct. But the supporters of the BRF aren’t the brightest bulbs, and I can see Charles somehow making it *look* like that’s what he’s doing, and a decent number of them falling for it.
^^ Yeah, @Lorelei, that’s the pr propaganda Chuck and courtiers have passed on to the BM to try and sell to the gullible.
@WindyRiver, you make a good point that the aging Queen in her final years was likely more concerned about trading off with Chuck to stabilize nonce criminal Andrew’s future protection within the firm. Probably, she realized and accepted there was nothing she could do at that stage to force Charles to give the Edinburgh title to Edward.
Seemingly, both Philip and Betty thought Charles was weak, whiny and malleable, particularly back in the late 1990s when his public image was at a very low point. They underestimated the fact that Charles would become increasingly bitter, self-obsessed, petty, and intent upon settling scores once he ultimately gained kingly power. Moreover, both Betty and Philip had already failed Charles from a very early age when they were often absent and never fully bonded with him.
This lack of a loving bond was surely exacerbated by the fact that Betty and Phil apparently viewed Charles’ sensitive personality with extreme disappointment. They probably expected Chuck to be more outgoing, fearless, and aggressive like Philip, which was never the case. Harry, in his looks, his boyish athletic pursuits, and his military skills and passion, was way more like Philip, which is surely why Harry was a favorite grandson to both Betty and Philip.
@Kingston, agree re:men-in-grey. They are very much involved in these decisions. The individual members of the hierarchy of the monarchy don’t have as much power as believed. It doesn’t mean Charles isn’t petty. He is. I came across this thing regarding how Philip would be titled-don’t know how authentic it is-interesting long read. One exchange mentioned Philip not wanting to be called/referred to as Prince. Bringing it up because it seems there are more teeth on the gear of the machinations of the monarchy that appear to be hidden. QE2 was never the head boss. She was the figurehead. Mentioning that because when the Sussexes put out the service is universal statement in response to the BP statement. Harry knew exactly who he was responding to (EY/others)and it wasn’t his grandma. Harry’s seen behind the curtain. He knows how things work.
https://www.heraldica.org/topics/britain/TNA/LCO_6_3677.htm
As mentioned by other posters, the DoE doesn’t come with estates, monetary fund or anything really. Sophie not being the duchess of anything doesn’t bother me after her antics towards Meghan.
Duke of Edinburgh title isn’t a royal dukedom forever. For example the current Duke of Gloucester was born HRH Prince Richard, grandson of a George V. However once Richard passes on his son Alexander, who is not an HRH becomes an ‘ordinary’ Duke. The Duke of Gloucester title then ceases to be a royal dukedom.
Whether one likes the Wessexes or not this is shitty. I think Chuck is being a petty bitch. Everyone has to live with the deal he cut with QEII to recognize Cams as QC but the promise to his parents? Nope.
This is the thing! The argument that it’s part of Charles’ plan to slim down the monarchy is baseless for this reason. Edward already has an earldom and that will be inherited in the usual way so giving him the dukedom his parents wanted him to have, and Charles agreed to him getting, makes no difference to the size of the complement of working royals. In due course the earldom will not be associated with an HRH and neither would the dukedom. No, I see this as a personal thing, and it reflects very poorly on Charles because it does seem petty and vindictive.
As I see it, giving this dukedom to Edward makes sense because this creation of the dukedom was to Edward’s father, to whom he was close and with whom he worked closely on the DoE award, and that close on long connection would be completely lacking if the intention is to give it to Louis in due course. And let’s not ignore the fact that Elizabeth and Philip and also Charles had agreed that this is what would happen. For Charles to go back on that agreement now is extremely poor form and has caused him to go way down in my estimation.
I swear to god (but too lazy to go back) that the two of them were in Scotland last week, weren’t they? Him with a kilt.
Burn
I think you’re right. total burn. lol
Hahahhahaha! Do I feel sorry for them? No , absolutely not. They were also part of the campaign against Harry and Meghan. So , their kissing ass and humiliation was not enough to get petty Charles to change his mind? Poor them.
Prob the tittle will go to William’s younger son.
^^ Not necessarily will the Edinburgh title pass down to Louis. Charles may not want the title to be used again, in order to spite Philip.
Plus, Louis coming of age is many years away, and much could be changed by then in regard to the firm.
But just as Betty couldn’t control what Charles did after her death, Charles can’t control whatever PW chooses to do after his.
I’m glad this happened, because it’s a prime example of how loyalty to the crown gets you nothing. Edward and Sophie did everything the heirs wanted and are getting paid dust. It’s the perfect example to point to when the royalists start bleating about “duty”. How can you be dutiful and loyal to people or an institution which views you, and everyone else but the heir(s), as expendable? You cannot. It is illogical.
Also I do agree with the bots a little here. The title was not Elizabeth’s to give. She was trying to reign beyond the grave, and Charles is right to do what he prefers instead now that he’s monarch. Of course, that too is why Meghan and Harry should never come back to the royals in any capacity. Charles’ promises don’t count for a lot, but they will count for even less once William is on the throne.
Charles made a promise to his mother the Queen and his father, they made him sign it in writing and made a VERY public deal to make sure everyone in the country knew about it.
Charles just broke a written promise to his parents, this is a SLAP IN THE FACE TO THE QUEEN
Totally agree. Ugly.
^^ I disagree with you and the bots @TeeCee. The Queen was not attempting to ‘rule beyond the grave.’ It was a sentimental wish of hers and of Philip’s that Edward receive the Edinburgh title. Due to the laws of British primogeniture, they couldn’t give it to Edward outright.
The kicker is, why didn’t they realize that their older son, whom they were less fond of, could certainly not be trusted to pass down this title to his younger brother? Desiring to bestow the Edinburgh title upon Edward, is clearly indicative of Betty/Phil’s affection for Edward vs Chuck, in the first place! LOL! This royal family and firm are a complete Salty Mess.
Why do people think that Edward getting the Edinburgh title is a sign of the queen and Philip’s favoritism of Edward over Charles? As the eldest and heir, Charles was already Duke of Cornwall so why would he expect Edinburgh too? I think he is just being petty. My tinfoil tiara theory is this is payback for Sophie pushing herself in the press over Camilla. I know Waity McButtons did it too, but at least she is going to be consort if she and TOB are still together. Who is Sophie to have the media out here claiming she is the favorite and the one the queen could count on? And that her daughter would be the new royal it girl? That right there was enough to piss off McButtons. Now Sophie has to curtsy to Meghan when Harry is around. As for Edward, welp.
^^ @MsIam, with all the petty griping Chuck has engaged in over the years in regard to his sensitive feelings about his parents’ childhood mistreatment of him, there’s plenty of evidence to believe that Charles saw passing the Edinburgh title to favorite younger son Edward, as a dismissive snub.
So what that Charles would inherit the throne and the Duchy of Lancaster! Chuck was deeply deprived of parental love and affection, so there’s lots of reasons to believe he may never have had any intention to give Edward the title, despite agreeing to do so. Charles wants adulation, acceptance, recognition, indulgence, everything. That’s what his relationship with Camilla is all about.
Moreover, Charles is more than a decade older than his younger brothers, thus he was never close to them at all. Charles doesn’t care about Edward’s feelings, and he could never stand Andrew (the Queen’s spoiled favorite).
Anyway, it isn’t about Charles’ ‘expecting’ the DoE title. It’s about Charles’ wanting his parents’ love.
@MsIam: “As the eldest and heir, Charles was already Duke of Cornwall so why would he expect Edinburgh too?”
To further respond to your above comment, @MsIam. Chuck didn’t have to expect the DoE title. You miss the point that as the oldest son, Chuck was automatically going to inherit Phil’s title. That’s why Betty & Phil had to make a deal with Chuck. Of course, Chuck didn’t need another title, so it would revert to the Crown. Betty & Phil underestimated Chuck’s capacity for bitterness and holding a grudge.
I doubt that Chuck’s feelings, actions, and intentions surrounding the Edinburgh title have anything to do with Sophie, Camilla, or Kate.
Then why would Chuck agree to the deal in 1999? Something changed between now and then to where he was agreeable then but not now. And you can’t get revenge on a dead person. He wanted to hurt Ed and Sophie and the question is why? I think disrespecting Charles’s obsession Camilla is a pretty good reason.
It does look bad that Charles had ignored express wishes of his mother and now we have Edward who has been consistent with engagements and tours not being a Duke but pedo Andy still can trot around with his dukedom and not do any engagements either.
Maybe we’re overthinking this. Maybe Charles never intended to give it to Edward. Nothing changed. This was just his plan all along. One final “eff you” to his parents and his brother.
^^ Exactly @Becks1. Just because Chuck agreed to the arrangement in 1999 doesn’t mean he was being sincere. Chuck becoming king was far off into the future at that point. Chuck’s selfishness and bitterness likely grew worse over the years. Plus, Chuck was never close to Edward, and probably feels he isn’t owed anything as the youngest brother. Chuck may actually find enjoyment in slighting Edward, and ignoring Philip’s desires.
Edinburgh, Cambridge, Sussex, Wessex (and Forfar) – they’re all made up titles, and Charles, Edward, and William look very silly squabbling over them (note that the Sussex are not involved in said squabbling, they’re the only adults in the family it seems).
The only titles worth something are Lancaster and Cornwall for the money, and Wales and York for the history – and the history is now tarnished. So it’s just money money money and made up titles.
The “high class” varnish of the monarchy is peeling off quite fast, isn’t it?
I don’t feel sorry for them. Charles and William do not care about anyone but themselves. It’s obvious by how they treat others. You can be nice to them all day but they will use and discard you when they are finished.
I mean who really cares? One asshole screws over another asshole . If chucky can withhold titles and security from his own son and his grandchildren, is it that far fetched to believe he would go back on his word to his parents and screw over his brother? A brother who thought himself too important to have the black man near his mother . A wife who thought that by being a total B to Meghan at the commonwealth service and then again at Betty funeral that she could get in good with the keens ? Well you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. The keens keep getting more and more and what do these two have ? Nothing. Well not nothing. They still get to live in a massive tax payer funded house and get security so I am finding it really hard to feel sorry for them because they didn’t get a néw title attached to their names . Maybe it will humble them a bit . As for chucky , he is a petty wimp , always has been and always will be . That is no love lost between him and his brothers but still if you give you word,you should keep it. However, let’s not forget that this is the man that took marriage vows to a very young girl in a church and still broke them with his side piece , so absolutely no one should be surprised he went back on his word to his parents and brother .
Charles is not off to a good start as King.
E&S plus their kids could have been given the title and kept working as royals, they seem to be seen as “lesser royals” anyhow.
But, who is Charles going to have working?
Charles & Cam, Princess Anne are all over 70, W&K hardly do anything, Andrew is out, Bea and Eugenie are not working as they have young babies, Zara and Mike are not working royals, Williams kids are far too young for at least another 8-10 years, H&M are OUT by choice.
Who is going to cut ribbons at store openings?
Charles is really not doing well, IMO.
I can’t believe this petty manchild is a head of state. How embarrassing for the United Kingdom. Do you know who the Windsors remind me of? The Trump family.
Thank gawd Harry & Meghan got off that sinking ship.
No one should be surprised by this. Not even Sophie and Edward. Harry knew that he was going to be at the mercy of Charles and later William if he had stayed.
@Amy Bee, You and I are not surprised. Harry and Meghan would not be surprised. But I really think most of the Royals live in this weird, isolating bubble in which people tell them what they want to hear and where they really think they are special for having been born or married into the Royal family. Just look at Andrew’s wanting to worm his way back into working Royal status again (and Sophie’s Oprah who?comment). I’m thinking that people with insanely exaggerated senses of self are not very good at either self-reflection or covering themselves. They think they are invincible. Poor Edward and Sophie, all that time constantly jockeying for the Queen’s attention and favor when she was alive and here they are now.
I would feel bad for Edward and Sophie as they did hustle for those titles. But the thing is Charles doesn’t do anything for anyone without getting something in return. And unfortunately Edward and Sophie have absolutely nothing to offer Charles.
I mean they don’t even get a mention this season in The Crown, that’s how irrelevant they are.
^^ LOL. Edward has been portrayed as a minor character in The Crown, very briefly. The dramatization of events inspired by the BRF, is not real life. The production is designed and intended to broadly cover, in a fictional way, major characters and events. Thus, not appearing in any episodes of The Crown, Season 5, is no indication of how relevant or irrelevant Edward and Sophie are. 😉
Except that it actually is…..you said yourself that the crown is designed to cover major characters and events. That doesn’t include Edward and Sophie.
^^ Obviously, Sophie and Edward are not major characters in The Crown production, particularly with Edward being the youngest son of the monarch. Still, that does not equate to labeling them as irrelevant. In general, the Wessexes’ relative significance and existing (albeit limited) profile as working royals should not be summarily dismissed. But clearly, being boring working royals is not an interesting storyline for a drama like The Crown. 😉 This type of production can only cover so much, and thus it leaves out a great deal, including details of the major characters’ lives.
Another thing to keep in mind is that being a younger brother not in direct line to the throne doesn’t predict one’s relevance or irrelevance. Other factors, such as charm, intelligence, leadership skills, and interesting personality are key. For example: Prince Harry is certainly not irrelevant, though the tabloids enjoy claiming he is. LOL!
We aren’t going to see Harry focused on in The Crown though, because the production isn’t planned to cover very recent years. The suggestion has been that Peter Morgan may develop a sequel which goes backward in time to the early 1900s.
This is Chucky III’s FU to his father. Imagine the resentment he is carrying to this day, at his age and station in life. Petty.
How does not making someone a Duke “trim down the monarchy”.
Duke != monarch
Sons inheriting said Duke title does not make them monarchs either.
Wait – “this was accepted by the Earl when he agreed that his children would not be a prince or princess” – that is not the story they have been peddling up until now they said that they chose not to “style them” prince or princess, but that they could chose to when they became 18
I’m also confused by this. What’s stopping lady Louise and her parents to proclaim tomorrow that Louise will now be a princess as she’s over 18 and has now decided she wants that. Did she only have a limited number of days after turning 18 to make that decision? Or was it that she could only make that decision while being a grandchild of the monarch, as in she would’ve had to say something before Elizabeth passed? Dang, I would’ve proclaimed it before the queen passed just to stick it to Charles. But maybe that would’ve been a signal of proclaiming war on Charles’ slimmed down monarchy idea, which is bullshit anyways and just means more money for him and his heir alone. Ain’t slimming down shit for the Brits.
I think what’s stopping them is that they are still dependent on Charles for money and he has told them “no”. Plus, if you make this case about Louise declaring herself Princess, then Archie and Lili can too. I think that is the real issue. If he says that the Sussex kids can’t be titled due to the slim down but then Louise and her brother get to be called HRH and prince/princess then people will ask why? Especially for the only biracial grandchildren of the monarch. I think that is a big reason why no upgrade in title for Edward and Sophie either. Charles wants to avoid being accused of singling out his biracial family members, even though we know he is.
^^ No, @MsIam. Louise and James are not the same generation as Archie and Lili. Louise and James are direct first cousins to Harry. There is no direct connection to the decisions that were made when Edward’s children were born, and the situation with Harry’s and Meghan’s children. I understand the tendency to try and make connections, but bottom line, had Harry married a white aristocrat and stayed drinking the cult kool-aid, his offspring would already be officially recognized as HRH Prince/ Princess. At this point, they are by current law anyway, but Chuck is refusing to officially acknowledge for all the well-known, obvious reasons.
Harry and his future family were always meant to be included in the ‘slimmed-down’ idea. But that was before Harry met Meghan. Edward, as the third son of the monarch, was meant to be gifted the Edinburgh title later, in lieu of a dukedom upon marriage. Plus, there was an agreement to withhold Edward’s kids using HRH titles as youngsters, even though they legally hold them.
Louise and James are (or were) grandchildren in the male line of the monarch. That’s the similarity between them and Archie and Lili which I think is the point MsIAm was making.
I’m also confused by this. What’s stopping lady Louise and her parents from proclaiming tomorrow that she will be a princess now as she’s over 18. Was there only a certain number of days she could do that? Or was it that she could only do it while the monarch was her grandmother, as in she could only do so while the queen was alive but she missed her chance now that that time has passed? If I was her family, I’d have done it just to stick it to Charles. Ok technically, it would not be healthy for her to have a title and is better that she doesn’t but it would have been funny just to eff with Charles that way. But he’d probably have taken it as a declaration of war against his slimmed down monarchy scheme, which is bullshit anyways and just means more money for him and the heir. Ain’t like it’s costing the Brits any less, regardless of the words “slimmed down”
@Jais There isn’t anything stopping her. She was Princess and HRH from birth by George V’s letters patent and it was a personal decision of her parents for her not to use it while she was under 18, and now her own. The matter of this choice is not dictated by the letters patent; it’s fully a personal decision. Sophie and Edward may be telegraphing a wish for upgraded titles, but the fact that Louise remains known as Lady Louise we can safely assume is by her own choice unless Charles issues new letters patent to take it away from her.
I think that Edward not getting the title means Archie and Lili will not get theirs. There are numerous non-royal dukes around, so Charles’s explanation makes no sense. I always thought downsizing the monarchy meant meaning making it less expensive, but there seems to be no talk of reducing the SG. I guess the only thing that will end up down-sized is the prestige of the British monarchy. The shameful thing here is the disrespect for the late Queen. I guess the promise made by a future monarch with a reigning monarch isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. I imagine that is why the Queen gave Edward a second Earldom before she died. I thought it was a rather useless gift, because the son will inherit both, and Louise will not inherit anything. However, I think the Queen knew that Charles would not likely carry out her wishes.
If Charles wanted to slim down the monarchy, he would move Sophie and Edward to a smaller estate that costs less in upkeep and then rent out Bagshot Park as a conference center or a school. There is no reason for those two to live in a 120-room estate. They could easily move into Kensington Palace or another property on the Windsor estate, Fort Belvedere, or Adelaide Cottage once Wales moves into Windsor Castle. Given how little William and Kate work, he needs the Wessexes to do the bread-and-butter engagements that W&K refuses to do.
Years ago Ed and Ford Fiesta did an interview at their home, and they only live in a very small section of Bagshot Park. It is mostly used for offices, etc. The Wessexes do not live in the way the Yorks do.
@Mary and Tamsin, May I add that this is about Harry asserting himself and saying that he wants no part in their (Charles and William) assigned role for him..
This is not about the Oprah interview, nor the book, nor slimmed it is simply that Harry was forced to pick a side, he chose his family.
Neither Bill nor Charles, have been acquainted with the word “No”. They chose to punish him by taking away the things they cannot imagine living without.
So the Wessexes, ir-regardless of one’s personal feelings towards them are collateral damage – to get to the target – Harry.
This just remove any doubt about their decision to move to the US.
@Tamsin, I agree with all of your points. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Charles figures: well if I’m screwing James over, title-wise, it won’t look so bad when I yank the Sussex kids’ princely titles. And you are right, removing or not granting titles has nothing to do with a slimmed-down-monarchy as it was proposed.
If this is true, I just can’t believe that Charles is so stupid as to renege on a long-held understanding and promise of the Queen to the Wessexes (with the seeming support of Charles).
Charles can’t touch the Sussex title. There would need to be a law removing the dukedom from Harry and that has to pass parliament. If we are talking about the HRH for the kids, then he also needs to issue a specific letters patent which would look very bad. So far he has avoided removing counsellor of state from Harry and Andrew and just added Edward and Anne to the list.
And even in the situation with the Edinburgh title, he hasn’t removed it from Edward, he just hasn’t given it to him.
If Charles was confrontational he would have done something about a lot of things including the lazy Wails. But he does things behind the scenes. Just like how he simply stopped taking Harry’s calls. He avoids as much as his mother did.
Someone in Parliament is pushing to have the Sussex title removed.
@ Jess, that would be opening a HUGE can of worms that they really don’t want opened. Technically and legally since September 8th when QE2 died, the kids titles are HRH Prince Archie and HRH Princess Lilibet. KC3 would have to issue a letters patent to revoke those titles. Personally I don’t think he will, they’ll just continue to not USE titles for Archie and Lili. Now William, on the other hand, I can absolutely see changing that when he is king.
@Tamsin: “I think that Edward not getting the title means Archie and Lili will not get theirs.”
There is no connection between King Charles not abiding to the 1999 agreement with his parents, and father Charles having a beef with younger son Harry freeing himself from the firm. Harry left with his family largely due to racist tabloid abuse toward his wife, and ongoing gaslighting and mistreatment that Charles and Betty refused to intercede with and stop.
Charles likely never intended to give Edward the DoE title, even when he agreed to in 1999. Harry is not a factor in Charles’ obvious bitterness toward his parents, which is what withholding the DoE title is about. Apparently, it’s moreso what Philip wanted, and Betty went along with it, but didn’t care enough to force Chuck’s adherence before her death. Understandably, ensuring Andrew’s survival was more important by that point.
Most likely, Sophie and Edward have realized for some time that the title would not be extended to them.
Archie and Lili already have their titles, they’re just not using them right now. They are, unless and until KC issues a letters patent removing them, HRH Prince Archie and HRH Princess Lilibet.
Your understanding is spot-on, @Beana; and, unless the Queen provided for them very generously in her will then, yes, the Wessexes are under the control of Charles now. While they continue to have a lengthy lease on their property, I doubt that it is a property they could maintain without their Royal funding. They would also lose their security, everything. So, while I would like them to tell Charles to go screw himself, I have a feeling they will feel they have to put up with any ill treatment by Charles and thank him for it.
Interestingly the article has been changed to omit two sections that were even more unfavorable to Charles. First, like the headline still does, the article stated that the reason they would not get the title was because it would eventually pass to James and that would fly in the face of a slim down monarchy. That seemed particularly cruel and petty and has since been removed. It also previously stated that Charles, the queen and the Duke of Edinburgh had signed an agreement to the effect that the Wessexes would become the Edinburgh’s. That has been removed from the article as well. Interesting.
I can’t wait to see who shows up for Christmas at Sandringham this year! 🎄
Dang, those parts were removed? Yep, that’s interesting.
The agreement said “should” not would and as such never really guaranteed E the DoE.
When will becomes king and if Edward outlived Charles i think William will hang on to the title also no hope for Edward
I notice that since Charles’s ascension to the throne, he has done nothing but reward himself and screw others. Giving the Prince of Wales title immediately to William is an attempt to erase Diana. He has done nothing for anyone- not his “subjects” or his family. What a greedy, petty, selfish little man, completely lacking in grace and any kind of magnanimity. It’s as if, now that he is finally king, he is going to get even with his parents and everybody else against whom he has held a grudge, including his younger son.
Further, If he cannot keep his word why would one expect him to keep the oath.
Ultimately it is about integrity of his position as Head of State. This clearly shows that he does not keep his promises, even written ones.
Maybe, being drunk with power, he chose to “let it all hang”.
A better route would’ve been magnanimity, leave the past where it belongs and move forward.
As silly as I think all of these titles are, and as much as I don’t care about Edward and Sophie, this was a d**k move. So petty.
Someone mentioned that unlike the Duchy of Cornwall, the Edinburgh title doesn’t even confer an estate or money. So what’s the harm in giving it to Edward? After all, it belonged to his father. Just because the younger siblings don’t inherit the Crown doesn’t make them any less the children of Elizabeth and Philip. Maybe Edward wanted it because he loved and admired his father? I can’t relate to aristocracy in general, not in this sense, but I can certainly relate to wanting something meaningful from a deceased parent. To them, the title is meaningful.
Charles would just like to pretend his younger brothers don’t exist. I know Elizabeth was not a loving mother to him. If he resented the affection and attention Andrew and Edward got from her, that is understandable….to a point. He’s a grown-ass man in his 70s with five grandchildren. He’s King now. And after all, it’s not their fault, is it? It’s hers. Time to get over it and be magnanimous.
💯
So petty. I’m not a Sophie fan, but she has worked full time for the firm for almost her entire married life.
Karma is a grown and sexy bitch. Sophiesta really went all in on treating Meghan like dirt and Dumbo can’t ever hide his racist ass. They are both garbage people, and while Charles is a petty, horrid person who is disregarding his parents’ wishes, I’m here for any disappointments and misery Charles the Turd heaps upon the Wessexes. Sophiesta thought it was just dandy to freeze out Meghan to brown-nose Peggington and Mute. Now she gets to be on the outs. I have zero sympathy for her and her bigot husband. I hope Sophie cries every day, knowing Meghan outranks her.
Charles is a POS. How’s that for a title? 😉
Damn, that’s cold.
I’m failing to see how Edward being an Earl rather than a Duke “slims down” the monarchy. It’s just a word, it’s not a Dukedom that comes with land. If I were Edward I’d be preparing to spill some steaming hot tea in return.
Without Charles issuing new letters patent stripping Louise, she’s still technically and has been from birth, a princess and an HRH, just she chooses not to style herself that way. As someone pointed out in another thread, some of George V’s grandchildren, such as Princess Alexandra and Prince Michael of Kent were born after he died and they were nevertheless RHR, Princess/Prince.
Is this Charles’ way of dangling something in front of Harry? “You and your granddad were close, wouldn’t it be grand for you to be his successor? You know your grandmother would have loved to see you carry in in his stead, one military man after another…”etc etc.
I can’t imagine Harry taking the title under these circumstances. He wouldn’t want anything to do with this act of pettiness.
If so, it’s rather delusional. Cannot see Harry caring at all about that title .
If that is the case why keep the armed forces title for himself and issued a statement negating his father and son’s participation by omitting that they once held that position.
I believe he did and Harry told him no thanks. It may explain all of that petty stupidity during the funeral. Charles saw the reception the Sussexes got in Germany, maybe thst gave him the idea that Harry could work for him. And there were a flurry of articles about “bringing Harry back and finding him a role”. Something changed whether it was Harry turning him down or maybe Baldemort threw a fit, something happened and Charles has been on a vendetta ever since.
I’m must be feeling my Scorpio petty today because I can’t drum up an ounce of outrage about this. None of these people are good people. They’ve truly bought in to the notion that they are superior beings due to their titles. If QEII wanted Eddie and Sophie to have those titles upon Phillip’s death, she should have done it then. She didn’t. She left it to Charles and he said nope. End of discussion. So sad all the sucking up and mean-girling of the Sussexes didn’t work in elevating your titles. Boo hoo. They’ll survive. Lord knows they aren’t in danger of losing their house or going without food and security. Eddie and Sophie will keep their mouths shut and do whatever Charles tells them to do because what are they going to do to him? Nada.
Yes, there must be a lot going on behind the scenes. This is not just Charles being a prick, that was foreseeable.
If she felt so strongly about it, QEII could have awarded the DoE title to Edward right after her husband’s death, as a way to “carry on” the legacy. She could have done it at any time during her jubilee year. She didn’t. Instead, she left it to Charles, knowing that he was not keen on giving his younger brother the title.
Another example of QEII’s head in the sand leadership style.
My understanding is, no she couldn’t. DOE title passed to Charles when Philip died. Now that Charles is king, the DOE title has “merged with the crown”, and Charles can choose to keep it, or bestow it on someone else.
TQ could have given Edward another dukedom (see above discussions), but she didn’t for one reason or another. Maybe that’s the title Edward really wanted, and they trusted Charles to keep his word…
Well the family Christmas is going to be fun this year.
NOBODY should go to Sandringham this Christmas.
Charles really is making a total hash of things right out of the gate isn’t he. William and Kate will bring nothing to the table as Prince and Princess of Wales, they’ve shown their disinterest in all things Welsh and make no effort to do anything other than the most brief and performative visits and photo ops whilst their patronages drop like flies. Charles needs the bread & butter stuff to show the BRF in a good light, and Edward and Sophie have worked tirelessly at it without all the fooferall the Wails demand, but will this snub tick them off to the point where they won’t take on as many commitments? It’s like for years, decades even, the royal pot has been simmering and now it looks like it’s going to boil over. He’s not cost-cutting or slimming down, he’s dividing up the pie into bigger chunks for himself and the Wails — it’s all just a shell game.
I don’t know why Charles would deliberately go against his mother’s wishes. What would be the harm of giving them this, since the queen wanted it that way? I think Charles will be very selective in what he chooses to carry out of all that his mother wanted. In the end, he’s a petty bitch (no surprise), who will do what HE wants anyway. Like the queen really “wanted” Camilla to be queen consort. Hah. He strong-armed her into that or made a deal he had no intention of keeping (like, “Be nice to Harry and Meghan.”) I think his love for his mother burned out LONG ago.
Sorry i must sound like a broken record, but it wasn’t just his mother’s wishes! He *agreed* to this plan as put forth in the declaration and is now backing out of it.
….and this agreement, signed by all 3 of them [betty/phillip/charles] and published by BP, is doing the rounds on Twitter. So pulling sections of this story & rewriting paragraphs & taking out the part tht said it was a signed agreement between the 3, will NOT absolve chucky3.
So this is a family who did nothing to achieve their standing except be born in a certain order. It’s fascinating to me that there are legions of people who want to support this system that doesn’t award people based on merit or value that they bring but rather birth order, rules that were written long ago, and how well they scheme. It blows my mind. You have charismatic family members who could do so much good but based on chance of not being born first, they’re better out of the whole system.
It’s amazing that Prince Harry saw what was in store for him and Meghan and noped outta there. He’ll be the one success story I’m cheering for. Meghan was a huge positive influence. It’s no wonder because she herself has a painful relationship with family but she’s created and upheld boundaries. I think she’s incredible and I’m so glad that they found each other.
Maybe Edward and Sophie will learn. They stuck around and got nothing. Imagine being in your 50s and never have had an actual paying job. How will they survive in the real world? They’re stuck and they know it.
Harry benefitted being a member of the BRF since birth. Meghan benefited by marrying Harry.
That doesn’t negate what The Voice said. Sure, Harry benefitted from being born a Prince. Meghan raised her profile when she married him. But the downside was so bad that they fled for their lives, basically. At least for their sanity. And they are doing some good with their fame and titles. Making some money, sure, but that’s fair. They don’t make nearly as much as William was just handed and they work harder for it.
NicoleNoelo, oh, yes, Harry definitely benefits by being a member of the brf since birth. He was labeled the Royal Scapegoat. How much better does it get than that? From watching the brf and reading the media regarding H&M, I would say (QUITE SERIOUSLY) that Meghan definitely married down.
A palace source told The Daily Mail that ‘The King wants to slim down the monarchy and since the former Queen is no longer a working royal, he is under no obligation to keep any written promises made to her. From now on he is keeping everything for himself”
Gee, too bad Liz being dead prevents her from being a working royal. What an absolutely ridiculous statement by that palace source. Whether dead or alive, a promise is a promise. Charles is all in his feelings about granting his brother the title and is a real nasty piece of work for denying him. And l don’t like the Wessexes, but what’s right is right .
Dollars to donuts the dead Queen still out works William and Kate this year!
Ha!
@Hamsterjam I do not doubt this. My theory commented just below before I saw your comment was about him wiggling out of this by way of mental and word gymnastics over Wills not being the PoW who signed it and him no longer being PoW, but king. However, this makes even more sense and I could see the connection of dots that might actually pass for an acceptable justification to those that matter.
Very short-sighted though because Edward, Sophie, H & M were the only ones who did work. Maybe Wills didn’t want them showing up he and K either.🤷🏾♀️
I mean I get it, KC is now in charge and those titles are traditionally reserved for sons of the leader which is just PoW now that they’ve run H off, but…..kindness and decency would seem to dictate that since they can’t even use them while he’s alive and that’s what his mum agreed on he could throw his brother a bone. 🤔I also don’t get why QE didn’t do this before she died. Maybe she knew it would be overturned when C became king?🤷🏾♀️
Its all so strange. I do think KC wants a pared down monarchy and one where the only working royals and relevant titleholders are in his inner sanctum (which he could really explain Harry’s kids getting not titles). Charles is crafty, I see he (and maybe William) looking ahead to set a precedent to ensure H’s family is iced out and provide the sovereign leader with less accountability and guaranteed sycophants. But he’s not wise and kinda short-sighted because he’s coming to the throne an old man who has very little of the favor and respect his mother earned through a lifetime of ruling generations. All he’s doing is creating an echo chamber for his folly and less people for whom those titles mean anything and consequently more people who view them as far less important than they view themselves. I’m not seeing this end well. H and M might have been able to help but the way the monarchy is set up there is absolutely no place for the spare/right hand supporting people to take the gloss off the rulers shine and KC, P&PoW just aren’t very winsome, progressive thinking, or concerned with people as they are with image, ruling, and keeping outdated traditions. There was no place for H and M here starting from early on when racist things/tropes were published about her and they weren’t willing (or even prepared😩) to defend and enfold her in a united front. H & M are far too analytical, self-aware, compassionate, concerned about others, and industrious for this set. I wish them and their beautiful family all the best as they navigate life with a new monarchy.
Well he had already given hints they weren’t gonna get it and they were so thirsty for that title, it was embarrassing. Honestly, the title was never Edward’s to inherit, and who knows how the laws actually work regarding inherited titles.Edward was a sad joke on their Caribbean tour, while Sophie just vibes mean energy. Both times she’s been in the international news with a global spotlight, her meanness has been on display. Doubt that’s the real reason. I wonder if part of this has to do with the fact Charles didn’t really like his father and maybe just didn’t want to honor his wishes. Who knows why but for now they’re not getting it and they’re in no position to complain.
L4Frimaire, Still and all, I still prefer Sophie and Edward to Keenie and Weenie. At least they really worked and the latter 2 NEVER did and were always just as thirsty. I think Edward SHOULD get the title since his mother wanted it that way. It is bullshit that Charles won’t perform her last wishes because she’s dead. WTF? That’s like not following out someone’s legal will because they’re dead anyway and will never know. That sentiment alone is one that has permeated every aspect of colonialism too: who cares what the “natives” want because they’ll never be as good as us? Everything they own, including their national resources, treasures and their own selves, are ours for the taking. Nasty as it gets.
Let me see if I can muster an ounce of sympathy for these people. Nope, squeezing my eyes tight and nothing coming out. Also, considering how Edward just giggled and deflected with a flippant quip when questioned about reparations in regards to colonialism and slavery while in the Caribbean, this is nothing like that. Guess he’ll have to console himself with his 120 room mansion, HRH and the titles he already has. They’re all so petty.
Interesting. While the above link still works, the article has disappeared from the DM’s online page. This makes me wonder if it was Charles floating the idea to gauge public sentiment about the Wessexes getting the Edinburgh title. The comments were far and away in favor of it and disparaging of Charles. I am curious to see how this turns out.
All the royal articles in the fail, in the last 24 hours except for Harry bashing as per usual seemed negative towards the king’s siblings, Andrew- the usual, Edward- title rescinded and his (King Charles) displeasure at Anne’s and Edward’s support towards Andrew.
Highly dysfunctional.
That IS interesting.
I am no monarchist, nor a fan of Charles, but he is right about this. The monarchy needs to find a new way to manage the role of monarch without alternating between dressing up family members for publicity and then throwing them under the bus to distract from scandals. The abuse has gone on long enough and needs to stop. Let everyone not in direct line to the throne have something of a normal life, free of abuse.
Ooooh! I just had a thought! If KC is icing everyone out, who will distract from the Fab 4 or Andrew in the media?! 🤔Are we going to get more true stories about Cam, KC, Will He Work, and No Will to Work in the BM? Are they setting themselves up for isolated royals to butter their bread by telling tales? Maybe they’re garnering their loyalty by de-titling but financially supporting? 🤔Which begs the question why couldn’t they have done that for H & M? New king, new rules?🤷🏾♀️
Prince George will get the DoE title. When Charles was PoW when Billy got married and got the Cambridge title which hadn’t been used in a while. That’s what he’s saving it for – for the heir and Billy agreed. I can see “Cambridge” being the new “York” title and thus giving it to the second son but given Billy’s behavior, he’ll give his second son a more lesser title like “Essex” or something that way should he “pull a Harry” that title can leave the RF and it wouldn’t be such a big deal as it would be had he gotten the Edinburgh title.
The Wessex’s are pretty crappy people, but he broke a promise to his mother and father. It was already agreed upon. They were already talking about downsizing to just siblings and William and Harry then. It’s incredibly tacky and shows who Charles now King is.
In the last 24 hours, the articles about the rf, except for the usual Sussex bashing are interesting.
There is Andrew – whipping boy
The Wessexes – no titles
The King’s displeasure that Anne and Edward supported Andrew.
Why the latent anger ? Displeasure at golden, flawed and lazy heir and wife???flummoxed at the spare’s fortitude?
So the course of action is to lash out at those depending on the proceeds from the Duchy of Lancaster, knowing fully well that they dare not respond?
Aaahhhhh! This may be the answer to my question above “if KC is icing everyone out who will be the new scapegoat/distraction?” I guess if you’re still being supported your new role is being thrown under the bus? I mean they’re the perfect people because they watched/helped destroy M in the media so they should “understand and get” this new and important position.
I wonder if this is just a prelude to stripping A&L. ‘See I’m not racist, I’m screwing over my white relatives too,”
This is a very common tactic actually. It is harder to accuse someone of being racist when they treat white people terribly too, especially ones in their own family.
Charles really is just not a nice person and doesn’t care about anyone else. He doesn’t even care that much about William and George but they are simply the heirs. Harry, Charlotte, and Louis mean nothing to him.
Lily and Archie mean nothing to Charles either
JCallas, Chuck might try it, but the difference is that Edward does NOT have the DoE title. A&L have the titles of HRH Prince ad HRH Princess. Chuck would have to take those away. I think that’s a very different thing. If Chuck wants to do that, he needs to take Louise and her brother’s and Charlottes and Louis’ titles, too. That’s the only way any of this will not look racist IMO.
So, Chuck, the ball is in your court. What do you want to show the world? Make no mistake, whatever you do it will be known to the world.
@Saucy, “If Chuck wants to (remove Archie & Lili’s princely titles), he needs to take Louise and her brother’s and Charlottes and Louis’ titles, too. That’s the only way any of this will not look racist IMO.”
Add to that the princely titles of all the other non-heir male-line grandchildren of a sovereign, e.g., the Dukes of Kent and Gloucester, Prince Michael of Kent, Princess Alexandra, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie.
It’s what they deserve for siding with Charles and William against H&M. They get reap what they’ve shown.
There really is no bottom to Charles’ a$$holery.
My reflection on all this is that, whatever happens to the DoE title, the truly superb Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme must continue and thrive. It’s embraced by a lot of youngsters who follow its varied challenges which are character shaping and often career enhancing too. So, I’d have thought P Edward really should get the title for that reason too, as he’s been heading it since Philip stepped back.
Weird things are afoot with titles: the day after the Queen’s death it was smartly announced that W&K were now to be known as the Duke/Duchess of Cornwall & Cambridge, then within 48 hours all change and they were announced as the PoW. What went on there?!
Can Ed & Soph just slack off their former work loads now? Soph did do work, even though she & Ed were never a big draw.
What real use are patronages anyway? People come out to get pics taken w/royalty? Bundle up your kid to wait for hours for a chance to get a wave or a handshake? How does any of this raise money for the organization or group being patronized? I think it’s an excuse for the royal patrons to buy new clothes to wear at events nobody really cares about anyway. Out of hundreds of patronages, there are probably not more than 20 or 30 that are meaningful charities for veterans, orphans, etc. Who cares if some regional garden club or pre-school gets a visit from Sophie or Kate once in a while?
A written promise is legally binding and enforceable , is it not? I would love if some of our lawyer people could comment.
As if they’d challenge this in court. Can you imagine? What exactly would they sue over?
I didn’t mention the word”sue”. I was simply wondering if anyone with legal knowledge would know if the Wessexes had any legal footing here.
No, they don’t. We have an unwritten constitution and Charles can do what he wants in this area. Apart from that, it would be highly unlikely to be binding whether written or not, it’s between family members and consideration is dubious. Likely to be a gratuitous promise.
The monarch has something called “sovereign immunity” that means Charles can’t be taken to court either civil or criminal
1) D**k move by Charles.
2) Bet Sophie remembers Oprah’s name now.
or maybe reverse this order *cackles*
How would Sophie know that Oprah is more than a chat show host without living in the US? There’s no way Sophie could know about Oprah’s impact.
She knows and was just being a shady cow. On a trip to South Africa years ago, she actually visited the school Oprah founded for a photo op, as part of her itinerary. She’s full of it.
Maybe, just maybe, this is why the Queen held onto the throne for so long.
She knew who Charles was. I thought that he had made some poor decisions with Diana. Even the situation with Harry I wasn’t so sure how much he was involved.
But, from the day the queen died he has been making one sh!!ty decision after the other.
The CoS decision was probably that of a courtier …
@Kay
LOL…..so, in other words let’s switch one fantasy for another? Because what u suggest, is not feasible. That’s not how the BRF works. It doesn’t do change.
In the Season 5 Episode, after the Tampongate phone conversation, Anne had lunch with Charles at his palace. When she met with the family (they were indeed a gossiping bunch), she reported that Charles was not the weakling they considered him to be. She says that Charles has organized his Palace at St James and is running an organized operation. Charles was planning to become King long before his parents reached retirement age. The affection he showed toward his parents was for the public view. Charles never forgave his parents for being unattached and forcing him to marry a woman he didn’t love.
The Queen could not confer the DoE on Edward as long as she, the Duchess of Edinburg, was alive. There’s no public access to Phillip’s will for ninety-nine years, and there’s no mention of the content of the Queen’s will. How do we know the Queen did not rescind the 1999 decision? The courtiers and the media feed you what they want you to know, which is only sometimes valid.
Sophie became a willing participant in the Meghan smear campaign. For a nanosecond, the Cambridges and Wessexes were the new Fab Four. Her public contempt for Meghan was unnecessary, but she was willing to sacrifice integrity to be a part of the Cambridge Brigade. I’m satisfied with the payoff, even if she’s not. Karma will be with that family for a while. There’s much work to be done.
The world, along with the Queen of England and Duke of Edinburg, saw Archie’s skin color two days after he was born, so Sophie’s confirmation was not required. The swelling of the fingers and ankles, one eye larger than the other, and the twisted mouth tell me evil is taking its toll on King Midas.
Charles was not forced by his parents to marry Diana he wanted heirs but got to have the marriage on his terms.
Like @Tessa said, I don’t think Charles ever wanted children or a family with Camilla. She was not a suitable partner because she is just not attractive, affairs aside. I’m sure Philip made that very clear to Charles if no one else did. That’s why he went ahead and married a young, beautiful bride. There’s no fairy tale when the prince decides to marry someone who is just not pretty. Instead, we all have to accept that the future King has bad taste. (And people still are having trouble accepting it after all these years).
Charles knew what he was doing and as an adult man, he decided to marry a naive Diana for children instead of putting in the effort to meet someone mature, attractive and available.
The sealed will! For speculation fun: what if Phillip had a son before Charles – would that child inherit the title, or does it have to be legitimate boys only?
This is about William refusing to give York title to Louis after Andrew dies. the second son of the monarch has been styled Duke of York for at least the past 3 generations, right? But the title is tainted now. William is angling for DoE for Louis to avoid using DoY.
That’s not true. She just chose to focus on the good and not publicize the bad. But the truth is, it was complicated with its rocky moments. And he didn’t turn full asshole until the royal family and British media got involved. Then his ego and pride took over.
Hopefully. Louise will get to go to have a more private life and get her university degree. She was given some publicity and called by the royal family secret weapon and would be a working royal. Now she can lead a more private life.
Padrew is still wanted by the FBI and members of the BRF showing support is a bad look.
I just looked at the meaning of this title-it stated that this title does not include any territorial land holdings and does not produce any revenue for the title holder-there is an award given each year for young people ages 14-24 for their achievements and it does not matter about ethnic background and social class-this award is a world wide award so the winners can be from any country.
Some things to be aware of in our deeply messed up system:
-Heirs can only inherit titles if born within marriage
-Women cannot inherit titles in their own right nor be given them, nor can sons in law
-There are about two dukedoms available to be conferred at the moment, you can’t just make this up like it’s Game of Thrones
-We have an unwritten constitution in the UK, any “rules” that exist can be overturned if Parliament wishes it
-We are genuinely screwed economically here in the UK (due to Brexit but no one will say that), no one in Parliament from the PM on down gives two tiny farts about the royals or the aristocracy and would not lift a little finger to help them unless bribed with shopping bags full of cash
-No one likes Charles but we honestly have much, much bigger things to worry about (go CYMRU tomorrow, we’re going to beat your Yankee asses, just checking to see if you were still reading)
EBS, I read to the end. I’ve decided as an American, that I have to root for our team, but I also want to root for Wales. I’m going to root for both and either way I win. I may get blasted for this, but I’m kind of hoping that Wales wins. (Don’t thrown tomatoes at me!!!!) In a Wales-England match up, I’ll be rooting for Wales. I hope they demolition them!!!!!
It’s cool S&S, Mr EBS and I are a cross-cultural Welsh-English couple (like thousands of others, some Scottish, Irish, etc). We have a friendly rivalry but of course we love each other. Like you guys and Canada, right? (For me, I cheer all actual democracies and citizens thereof).
Charles wants absolutely everything. He’ll cut down on how many other people get money, but he’s definitely not gonna ask for less overall. It just means more for him.
Sophie tried really hard to convince people that her kids could “choose” to use HRH when they turned 18 — but that is entirely up to the monarch’s whim, and Elizabeth NEVER said such a thing, at least not publicly. All QEII ever said was that Ed’s kids would NOT be styled as children of a prince but only an earl. I know a lot of people disagreed with me, but I’m sticking with that — Ed’s kids are not, and have never been, HRH and will not be until a monarch (Charles or eventually William) overrules what QEII said. At this point, Sophie’s best bet is to kiss up to William.
What good will the HRH and prince/princess title do Louise and James anyway? It’s not like most people pay much attention even to S&E. Their best bet is to get their children a good education and use any contacts to get them a well-paying job.
Remember that photo of Edward looking shocked by something William said to him at the funeral? Maybe it was this.
Anyway I’m enjoying watching Charles reveal his true bitter and petty self. It will just hasten the monarchy’s demise.
I don’t watch The Crown, and I don’t read a lot of the royal posts. But many people are tired of all the $ the monarchy gets. Maybe Charles just has the balls and foresight to do what he’s said is his plan: trim the monarchy. Sophie & Edward are getting royally shafted, but maybe it’s literally part of Charles’ plan, and I’m not shedding any tears since they’re hardly destitute. Charles waited DECADES to be in charge and implement his ideas. I don’t mind a bit of the monarchy is vastly trimmed!