For years, there have been reports and rumors about a fight or disagreement between Prince Harry and then-Meghan Markle early in their relationship. Harry even discussed the life-changing fight in The Me You Can’t See – at some point, early in their courtship, they argued and Harry was apparently very rude and loud to Meghan. Meghan said “nope” and she encouraged him to get a therapist. Harry expounds on that story in his memoir, Spare. Meghan really said: you’re not going to make me put up with all of this craziness AND treat me like that. Good for her.
Writing about the good times — and bad. Prince Harry recalled a blowout fight with wife Meghan Markle in his Spare memoir, Us Weekly can exclusively reveal.
“Maybe the wine went to my head. Maybe the weeks of battling the press had worn me down. For some reason, when the conversation took an unexpected turn, I became touchy,” the Duke of Sussex, 38, wrote in his debut memoir, which is set for a Tuesday, January 10, release. “Then angry. Disproportionately, sloppily angry.”
In Spare, Harry alleged that the 41-year-old Suits alum had said something that he “took the wrong way” due to a cultural difference and a language barrier.
“I was also just over-sensitive that night. I thought: ‘Why’s she having a go at me?’ I snapped at her, spoke to her harshly [and] cruelly,” the England native wrote of his wife, whom he married in May 2018. “As the words left my mouth, I could feel everything in the room come to a stop. The gravy stopped bubbling, the molecules of air stopped orbiting. Even Nina Simone seemed to pause.”
Meghan swiftly walked out the room, with the duke thinking she disappeared for a “full 15 minutes” before he found her sitting alone in their bedroom.
“She was calm, but said in a quiet, level tone that she would never stand for being spoken to like that. I nodded. She wanted to know where it came from,” Harry wrote in Spare, remembering their conversation. “I don’t know. [She asked,] ’Where did you ever hear a man speak like that to a woman? Did you overhear adults speak that way when you were growing up?’ I cleared my throat, looked away [and responded], ‘Yes.’”
While Meghan has not publicly addressed the duo’s fight, Harry revealed that she told him that she would not “tolerate” a partner — or coparent — who yelled like he did that night. “She wasn’t going to raise children in an atmosphere of anger or disrespect. She laid it all out, super-clear,” the BetterUp CIO wrote. Harry further noted that both he and Meghan — who stepped back from their positions as senior working royals in 2020 — “knew” his outburst was not caused by their conversation.
“It came from somewhere deep inside, somewhere that needed to be excavated, and it was obvious that I could use some help with the job,” Harry explained before referencing brother Prince William. “‘I’ve tried therapy,’ I told her. ‘Willy told me to go. Never found the right person.’ [It] didn’t work. ‘No,’ she said softly. ‘Try again.’”
This really was the benefit of dating someone fully formed – Harry was still on a journey, and Meghan knew who she was, knew her boundaries, knew what was and was not acceptable to her, knew what kind of respect she deserves from a partner. She wasn’t going to be treated that way by her boyfriend/partner and she clearly communicated that. Harry had probably never dated or dealt with anyone who spoke to him clearly that way. No wonder he got into therapy and found it life-changing – he HAD to change for Meghan, or else she was going to leave his ass.
Photos courtesy of Netflix.
Meghan is an absolute queen and I adore her. The way she handled this is exactly how I hope I would handle a similar situation.
OH.MY.GOD. what an amazing and strong woman!
I may “only” be in my early twenties but I would never have had the strength to keep calm, I would have yelled back
Lia, in my twenties I would have yelled back too. I spent years in therapy learning how to not immediately go nuclear in a fight. Now I’m in my thirties and I can be calm in a fight. It’s a skill you will develop and, with work, you will get there.
I hope I can get to a point where I can do this.
It isn’t how I would. I would have allowed myself to be verbally abused and then tried to make the abuser feel better. If Meghan ever writes a book on boundaries and sticking up for your own worth, I will buy it in a heartbeat.
F*ck yeah! I’m 47…please Meghan, teach me how to hold boundaries like this!!!
+1
It’s definitely not how I would have handled it but its how I want to handle things like this, you know?
Yeah, I’m certain that I would have yelled back which might have been justified but definitely not productive. I aspire to be more like her.
Agreed. I know role model should be used sparingly, especially with public figures. But wow. Just wow.
This is THE way to handle it. I’m embarrassed to say that I would’ve pouted for a while and then excused his behavior on all the “pressures” he had in his life, which invariably would’ve led to him doing it again and again.
Same Mimi, same. Every word. Let us all learn from this strength and composure in the face of screaming people and not let ourselves be excusing their bullshit.
Ramen.
+1000
“Who the fuck are you talking to, Harry?” would have been my first response.
I have admired her for a while, now I think I love her. She knows her worth and her boundaries and sets it all up from jump. You don’t like it, you can bounce. That’s an icon.
Honest to God, Spare is showing me a tough side to Meghan I didn’t even know existed. Like good for her on so much shit.
Recently the exact scenario happened to me (I’m the Harry), and I knew right away from the stunned silent reaction of my Meghan- “fuck that was my dad coming out and I will not be him!”. God bless the Meghan’s of the world, we don’t deserve them, I don’t know why they put up with us, and we must treat them right. (Yes, I did start therapy again too BTW!)
And yet they had no idea how to help her when she was suicidal? They could figure it how to keep trying different therapists for Harry while dating but couldn’t figure out how to do it for her without the help of an HR department?
From my perspective, while they were dating… that whole family was trying to split them up. They weren’t married so Harry was still technically bachelor harry- who the whole firm put on a pedestal to deflect from them. Once they were married and they realized Harry was taking Meghan side….things once easily available started to disappear.
Kiki – she wanted inpatient care (hospitalization). That’s very different to seeing a therapist (outpatient) where it could be done virtually or by phone even. If Meghan was hospitalized, the public would most likely have found out and that “would have looked bad for the family” (or whatever bullshit excuse they gave her).
I’ve seen people say this (if they could find a therapist for Harry how come they couldn’t have gotten Meghan the care she needed), but the levels of care they are talking about are very, very different. (And I may be reading your post incorrectly about the “they” you refer to. If so, I apologize. But, I do think, if it was solely up to the Sussexes, clearly they would have been able to find Meghan the inpatient care she wanted, but they naively went to the family – or were told they had to follow whatever bullshit HR crap they were told – and then it was shut down.)
It was my understanding that they had to go through the palace to get her help and the palace refused.
@kiki confusing inpatient treatment with therapy session makes you sound like the tabloids.
I think because at that point she was in the institution and Harry believed the rules to be different, that Meghan had to ask permission to go to an in-house program since her absence would be noted. Since the “family” refused to help and agree to her getting help, she approached “institution”
Nutmeg probably concocted this story to make herself look good then made Harry include it in the book. What a nutcase
@MegSux, you do know you’re in the wrong place right now with that comment. This blog is NOT the one. Go back to the Fail and the Sun. We believe both Meghan and Harry here. Surely you see that, right?
Something VERY similar happened to me and my husband a few years into our marriage. We’d been having constant misunderstandings and I told him something here wasn’t clicking and he needed to talk to someone before he said something he couldn’t take back. He ended up being diagnosed with autism in his late forties. We still have moments because our brains work differently, but we both put in the effort. Good on Meghan for standing her ground, and for Harry for realising that he HAD to do something, or lose the woman he loved.
I love Meghan. That’s all. She’s such a grown-up, everyone should have someone like this in their life.
That is what we should be teaching all our daughters….👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I have read the whole book, beautifully written, excellent descriptions of his time in Africa, Australia and Arctic and treks and frankly I have no idea why there is such an uproar over this book. Other than reading Prince incandescent Willy lost control and beat up his brother not much if anything about Middleton. Harry and Meghan have been treated horribly by the whole lot of the damned Royals. The Queen was complicité treating Harry worse than her pedo Prince. Time for their outdated, archaic hierarchy was abolished.
OK, this. I don’t care about all the other ridiculous details – curtseying, hugging, lip gloss, blah, blah, blah, stupid. This is Meghan, this is important. And this is why the RF couldn’t allow her to stay.
Correct and the Wills pointing the finger, Meghan’s comment, showed that Meghan would not comply and was her own individual.
I agree. Much has been made of people’s feelings that it’s racism at the core of why the royals hated Meghan, and that’s undoubtedly a part of it, but I think it’s primarily that she does not suffer abuse or fools and she continues to be herself. She empowers Harry to do what he’s always wanted to do. It is that aspect of her that constitutes the largest threat. Had she been a biracial version of Kate – lazy, compliant, just a face – I don’t think anyone would have cared as much.
Exactly, 1) she’s very confident and comfortable with her herself. You can’t break someone like that.
2) she sets and clearly communicates her boundaries. folks who demand deference do not like this.
So yeah. I can definitely see why they immediately knew she had to go.
Right. Now, I understand why “Willy” called her rude and abrasive. She refused to be another one of his doormats. Good for her!
Can I add a side note that “Willy” is such a weird nickname? It makes me think of a flaccid penis.
Prince Flaccid Penis
Prince FP
It fits.
I bet this incident is one of the main reasons Kate can’t stand Meghan.
I bet Kate never even realized not putting up with Wills’ abuse was possible (and maybe it wasn’t? He sounds like the type who would have kicked her to the curb if she stood up for herself), and instead of learning from Meghan and Harry’s relationship, she just tried to tank it out of her own jealousy (and probably sadness at the realization of how bad/precarious her own set-up in the family was).
That is powerful. It is truly one of the beautiful things about being a fully formed person when you meet your partner. Good for her.
And I love the way it was framed:
– She made it clear SHE would NOT tolerate someone speaking, behaving like that towards her.
– She physically left the room when someone didn’t (putting her boundaries into action)
– She stated her boundaries clearly, with no need for justification
– She responded with compassion, understanding of why he might have spoken like that, but still made her boundaries clear
-She pointed him in the direction of how to get help (and in doing so conveyed that it was possible and that he was worth it – something he likely rarely got from his family after his mother died: that he was both capable of doing better and worthy trying to do better vs just the spare who didn’t matter and was dumb, a screw up, incapable, etc)
– And she put the ball very firmly back in his court. He could choose to not try to fix whatever he was carrying, but she wouldn’t be by his side if that’s the choice he made
Beautifully summarized @North of Boston.
Doria raised a remarkable woman.
You can see in the dog bowl incident that this kind of behavior (coming at someone with anger and aggression) is probably commonplace in this family. I’m glad Meghan showed Harry a way out of this dynamic.
North of Boston – beautifully summarized.
Meghan is an absolute queen and I wish we could all have her level of self love and self-esteem!
And I really appreciate that Harry was able to grow and change and recognize where he needed to do better. That is so hard to do.
I stan this couple so much!! And am so thankful they escaped that hellscape of a family.
Agreed with the comments from North of Boston! Meghan managed to convey both her concern and empathy for her husband, while also protecting her boundaries. She made it clear what the parameters of a healthy relationship and marriage was to him.
Yes! Love this.
@Heather, Dr. Tara Brach discussed the Buddhist approach of “strong back soft front” on Episode 12 of Archetypes.
@NorthOfBoston and @Petra
Yes, she truly did. These are some Black and bi-racial queens. The REAL Queens of the Royal Family. F all the others. They don’t deserve the titles.
WOW. My respect for Meghan is off the charts. She set a boundary but she also gave him space to see that his behavior wasn’t about her at all.
I’m so glad Harry decided to do the work on himself. He deserves to be happy and whole and Meghan deserves the partner and father he’s become.
I mean bravo to both of them. No one else in Harry’s life would have ever had the wherewithal to ask where this was coming from. It’s just not in the Windsors nature. Bravo to Meghan for seeing it and bravo to Harry for getting help.
Meghan asked him “Where did you ever hear a man speak like that to a woman?” I imagine there were examples galore, and when he would have heard Phillip treat TQ with no respect just imagine the effect that had. TQ probably got yelled at, and we know that Charles yelled at and demeaned Diana. It’s a miracle that Harry remained a loving, generous man.
I weep at the thought of how this story is going to be twisted in the press about whipped-boy Harry and so on. At the same time, I am THRILLED it is being put out there for women to read, to absorb and contemplate and, hopefully, to incorporate into their relationships. You GET what you settle for, and she was crystal clear and calm about what was and was not appropriate. Prince or no, there is acceptable and unacceptable language and it’s his choice what path he takes and if he gets the prize (her) or not. No matter what quibbles one might have with aspects of Meghan, this story alone will ensure I wholeheartedly respect her going forward.
@RMS & @Emmlo
It’s really like changing your mind. Kind of like what it means to REPENT. To repent doesn’t mean just to stop doing bad things – it means to CHANGE YOUR MIND, CHANGE YOUR DIRECTION. To do that you have to WANT to change. I love that Meghan and Harry KNEW that what was fueling this anger wasn’t just an argument, but something deeper that needed to be addressed and not excused. Bravo.
Yes!
I admire Prince Harry for including the complete story of his life. This is growth. This is a man who put in the hard work for a grownup relationship and marriage.
I celebrate the work Prince Harry and Duchess Meghan did for the betterment of themselves and their children.
PERIOD. She got him right on together, as she should. I have respect for clearly stating her boundaries and not forfeiting them, even for the man she loves. She was 100% willing to walk away if he could not respect that, respect HER and he knew it, There’s power in that in self assurance. I’m jealous, but imma get there.
An amazing role model for all women, no matter your age. It’s no wonder To Meghan Markle is now a term. She wasn’t awed by his royal status, she knew her worth and set her boundaries. It makes me sad that they hurt her so much to the point she wanted to unalive herself.
This👆👆. Meghan is role model for all women! The way she sets calmly her boundaries and explains is unbelievable! No pouting, no manipulations, no screams. Simply, clearly and obviously effectively.
Hmm I wonder where Harry has seen a man treat a woman that way? I’m sure with this parents but also perhaps the same place Louis has seen a man place his hands over his mother’s mouth to silence her a la Jubbly concert photos?
“Hmm I wonder where Harry has seen a man treat a woman that way?”
YUP. Charles’s abuse of Diana has had long-reaching consequences. Pair this with the story of William assaulting Harry, and it’s clear that Charles’s dysfunctional behavior deeply impacted his sons.
I mean I seriously doubt it was just Charles.
Elizabeth was a doormat with a crown.
The Van Cutsems were creepy AF.
The Spencer men are also known to mistreat their wives.
And then William.
Harry has spoken about generational trauma, and you outlined it right there. And he’s breaking cycles for the next generation. This is amazing.
He knew there was a different way to live. Glad he stepped up. I was on the way to codependency, but broke it. Still have to work on some things, tho.
Yeah but the only Spencer there is, is Charles Spencer and he isnt that close to his uncle anyway. My money is on his father. His temper got him chocking a servant for no reason and there was a report that Charles threw a bootjack at Diana, only few inches missing her head. People often talked about how the marriage affected William badly, but never Harry. Harry suffered too, and it’s not spoken enough how good he broke that generational trauma.
Wow, good for you Meghan!
Now that is what you call a true partner! She helped Harry grow into a better person. If Willy had that same type of partner, he wouldn’t be what he is today. Willy and Kate just feed off of each other’s dysfunction.
I thought that as well. Without Meghan, Harry could have easily ended up more like William, angry all the time. I said yesterday, both of those boys had every right to be angry, with their mother dying and them having no freedom or good role models. The difference is when they became men, Harry did the work to change, and William did not, and continues to punish those around him for it.
Meghan is clearly someone who did the work and knows her self worth, and her boundaries. This was sad but great to read. I hope more people listen and emulate that sort of behavior.
This. I think this is the first time I’ve really felt any type of pity/sadness for W&K. They’re both broken people stuck in a cycle of dysfunction and a lot of their issues stem from that. It doesn’t excuse any of it, especially when they haven’t and probably won’t ever do the work to overcome it, but in realizing that….idc, there’s some pity from me there.
Meghan is THAT bitch.
I have put up with so much shit from men in my life and spent the majority of my time single.
I only knew last year not to date any man who yells at you.
She is incredible.
Love this. I have mad respect for Meghan’s gentleness while she must have felt incredibly hurt and shocked at the same time. Also, look at Harry not turning his mistake around at her, or deflecting his part in it by saying that she provoked him. What a gift she was to him, and he has responded fully.
It wasn’t his character, that’s why they were both able to turn it around. It was something he saw, learned, internalized, and maybe with a different partner, under different circumstances, it could’ve become who he was. But they both knew that wasn’t the real him. And they put a stop to it. It’s really admirable.
I hate it when people call her a social climber who only married Harry because he was a prince. That is disrespectful to both of them. You can tell they love each other and their life together.
Harry seems to be laying everything out, including his own short comings. I absolutely believe everything I’ve read so far.
I wonder if Spare will be available at midnight on Tuesday?
People accused her of social climbing but this is further proof that she was ready to blow everything up if her boundaries weren’t respected by Harry no matter who he was.
Not blow everything up. Set it down and walk away. She’s said that she had a great life before him. He was adding to what she’d already created for herself.
Here is the thing, Meghan and Harry have a true partnership based on mutual respect and love. They have and continue to work on their friendship/relationship. I don’t thing that the other couple have ANY of that. I love that Harry included this and that adults can see that you don’t have to settle for less.
Yeah, this is the meat of his story, isn’t it? I really want to read the book in its entirety before jumping to too many conclusions. Because I don’t love the picture that’s emerging of Harry with all these little tidbits and translations of translations. Meghan comes off wonderfully, like a grown-ass woman who knew what she wanted in life and from her partner. Who was warm and unassuming and sure, yeah, I disagree with the damn lipgloss but that’s such a non-incident in the grand scheme of things that it doesn’t matter. Harry, on the other hand … he likes to explain himself. And it comes across as always looking for an outside reason why he did some shitty things. I say this as someone who does the same. I don’t like apologizing without qualifying things. I do it because I’m a damn adult and it’s the right thing but I had to learn that and unpack why I tend to explain myself a lot. The Nazi costume? Well, I was wrong but they laughed too! This incident? The wine, the press, the stress, and even my wife said it’s probably because I heard people speak like that growing up. Again, I’m waiting for the book because this stuff is selected for effect. Reading quotes from Matthew Perry’s memoir for example, I though he was a terrible ass. The whole book brought out a very different picture than that of the guy with those awful Keanu quotes.
So, to summarize, your entire >250-word post can be reduced to the following 16 words, then?
“……..I really want to read the book in its entirety before jumping to too many conclusions…….”
Pretty sure this excerpt comes straight from the book. No translation necessary. Well written and clear.
No but if that’s your takeaway, that’s your takeaway I guess.
I think what we are reading is tidbits and the media is doing it on purpose. I am sure when we read the book we will get the entire picture.
If Harry is coming across as an ass it’s because he was an ass and he is now showing us the mindset, lack of emotional immaturity, and lack of awareness of how his actions affected others. Those behaviors are a result of his upbringing and his abusive family who all have the same behaviors. Harry is also showing how and why he made changes to correct those problems and how his (royal) family have tried to stop him from learning, changing, and growing into the person he now is.
Secondly, if you feel the need to explain after apologizing then you may subconsciously feel the other person is misreading the situation or you might feel they need to apologize, as well. Trust me when I say I completely understand this. It took me a long time but I’ve had to learn that when I apologize it must be focused on my actions and it must be offered with no strings attached.
I have no control over someone accepting the apology (it’s their choice) and I can’t force someone to apologize to me (forced apologies are fake and won’t help anyone heal). If someone is unwilling to apologize to me then I take that as a sign I need to reconsider whether or not they remain in my life. I’ve lost friends who wronged me and refused to apologize but I’m better off without them.
I hope this helps you understand the emotions you have with apologies.
MEGHAN IS A F*CKING QUEEN.
She did what I wish I had done in a past relationship that ended up being the most soul-destroying experience of my life.
Our queen didn’t raise her voice. She calmly and clearly said “Haz, I am NOT the one”, then with love, asked the right questions that led him down the path to self-awareness.
I stan. I Pakistan, I Kazakhstan, I Uzbekistan.
Hahahah. I love this response! And yes Meghan comes off wonderfully but this is the benefit of dating someone who knows themselves, their boundaries, and what they deserve. But what is incredibly powerful here is the compassion she showed him while still maintaining her boundaries.
My mother is a big believer in the “you teach people how they can treat you” school of thought and I never understood why she stressed it so much when I was growing up until I started dating. A powerful lesson.
My sense of the “Harry explaining himself” aspect so far is that it fits what he’s been saying all along:
It’s not that any one person in this is evil or bad, it’s that the entire culture of The Firm, the RF and its symbiotic toxic relationship with the RR, the entire system and environment he was raised in is unhealthy, leads to people being bigoted or unbalanced or unhappy because of the standards, expectations, lack of care for people’s individual emotional wellbeing.
He happened to be the “spare” in this story whose entire existence was devalued throughout his early life, but the fact that this system exists in the first place which allows *any* person to be systematically devalued like that, and by the way, cause a ton of emotional damage even to those who ARE valued (eg William, Charles) is the problem. And he’s telling the story of his journey, work out of that system, worldview into a brighter better more satisfying place.
Yes to all you said. YAAAAAAAASSSS!
Also, I’m glad that Harry clarified what I was curious about months ago–William said he told him to get therapy, but Harry said Meghan had. So, it was both. It didn’t stick after William told him to, and he gave up. Meghan insisted he try again, and he knew the consequences if he didn’t. He also knew, he needed it.
She really got him together! Good on her for that and knowing what behaviors she would not accept. This was also true about their first date. Also, this explains so much about why the family don’t like her and why people think Harry’s “whipped” or “ henpecked.” She has expectations on how she should be treated, and will let you know if you aren’t meeting them. This just tells me that she was raised right.
And why a troglodyte arsehole like Bullyam joins his masters in the britshidtmedia in using misogynoir tropes in referencing M.
Doria
I believe that Doria example by leaving Tom Sr when Meg was two and realizing that since Tom loved, provided for, and wanted to be in Meg’s life, that no matter how Doria fekt about him, Doria understood it would be best for Meg’s self-confidence to have her father actively in her life. So Doria sucked it up and had him for dinner and kept it amicable. A mother’s sacrificial love.
This is a great point. Meghan may have grown up to be a much different person if Doria hadn’t left Tom, had continue to put up with whatever dysfunction they had in their marriage and whatever toxicity he was bringing, that would’ve been Meghan’s normal.
“Home” would have been a much different environment for her.
I wish more people in unhappy marriages with toxic (and unwilling to change, get help) partners could seriously consider that aspect when deciding whether or not to stay together “for the children”
I think most of us, as intelligent women, will gravitate toward this scenario with complete understanding and appreciation. We’ve dated men which required quick exits. And we’ve taken in love only to witness devolving human beings into Neanderthals. We’ve married and have had to teach and endure antiquated behaviors. I’ve loved my husband since 1992, but damn. Try telling an alcoholic he’s an alcoholic and his vitriol will leave him alone. “You can’t talk to us this way and call us your family.” He had carried with him a childhood full of physical and mental abuse. He’s a different man now. What Meghan said, how she said it, comes from a place of maturity which introduced a new way of living for Harry, and because he was ready for it, he listened and acted. These two are a fabulous example of how true love is supposed to work. I am in awe.
How did you get through to your husband?
In the end, it wasn’t me, it was our children. I was at the end of my rope. The older boys came over and came down pretty hard. No yelling. Nothing physical. Just grow up, face this like a man, husband, father and let’s go. They drove him to a facility. The boys told me the last thing they said was, “This is going to take years for mom to get herself back. Screw this up and you’ll lose everything. You are loved.”
I cry everytime I think about it, but so far our marriage is better than it’s ever been. It’s like we’re young again and dating. He finally got to a point where he didn’t want to drink anymore. It’s a day by day living protocol, but he’s had to do the real work. Now he’s on a local AA Board of Directors and handles this area’s funding for projects. The alcoholic has to be the one in therapy, working steps and living authentically. All we can do is support. It’s so hard. And it’s so worth it to walk through the process slowly and deliberately. I’m very proud how far he’s come. Thank you for asking.
Thank you for answering❤️🙏
This might sound ridiculous, but Meghan genuinely reminds me of the badass Disney princesses I grew up with who set an great example for me to know my worth and become a strong woman. Except Meghan is real! She’s just. Awesome, and an excellent role model for women and girls.
I come from a family of women who, similarly, would never accept this kind of nonsense from a man. I admire it so much, and love that Harry shared this.
I can relate to Harry saying he had tried therapy, never found the right person.
Meghan encouraging him to try again.
I’ve tried therapy after my divorce, 3 different therapists over the course of several years.
Breaking patterns and mindsets learned from childhood is incredibly difficult.
Meghan is phenomenal and Harry knows it. Remember how the press and royalists got SO mad when Harry credited Meghan with getting him to seriously work on his mental health and cried “what about William”? It’s a world of difference to hear a toxic relative (who sure sounds like he needs to take his own fucking advice) tell him to get help vs. a thoughtful, well-rounded partner having a sincere, reflective conversation about what’s wrong and what he can do about it.
“It’s a world of difference to hear a toxic relative (who sure sounds like he needs to take his own fucking advice) tell him to get help vs. a thoughtful, well-rounded partner having a sincere, reflective conversation about what’s wrong and what he can do about it.”
This is SUCH a great point and it obviously made all the difference for to Harry. Meghan’s approach came from a place of love and it got through.
It sure sounds like Harry was what therapists call “the designated patient” in his family. Everyone else could ignore their own issues and make him the one who struggled with mental health.
It’s the kind of ‘advice’ that toxic abusive people give to their victims to insult and undermine them.
I was coming across as mildly annoyed (about as far as I go, because one of those easy-going serene people) after my narcissistic bully mother inflicted some outrageous bitchery on me. She told me I should get professional help for all my anger. Oh eff off.
If the Egg advised therapy, I’ll bet that it wasn’t a sincere desire for his victim to get help. It was an attack.
The fact that she asked him where the hurtful words and the anger were coming from says a lot about Meghan. She’s not excusing his behaviour, but letting him see why he needed help. I think I might have bailed.
What models of a healthy relationship do we think Harry has ever had? Certainly not his parents or grandparents, and probably not his older brother. Not his uncle. Again, I don’t think it’s excusing his behaviour, it’s showing how much he needed to change.
The thought of Meghan sitting alone in the bedroom, thinking “I’m not going to put up with this” and approaching it calmly with him kind of breaks my heart. Like i’m imaging what she was thinking as she sat alone there for 15 minutes.
Good for her to stand her ground and good for Harry to realize she was right and he needed to do better and to change.
Jesus Christ… I don’t think that I can properly articulate the deep and genuine love and respect that I have for this woman. I’m not the type of person to “Stan” anyone, but I’ve been closely following her journey over the years, and all of the grace, dignity and self respect that she has maintained, in the face of literal hell on earth…. yeah. Meghan is a genuine hero and roll model in my eyes.
Credit to Meghan, but also credit to Harry. Many people would have lashed out more, closed off. He instead opened up to acknowledge he was wrong.
I sort of like that he seems to be putting out a warts and all look at himself. He’s asking for truth, so he’s saying the truth: I was petty here, behaved badly there, was ignorant & naive in areas. It gives credibility to the story but it’s also a product of therapy. I’m looking forward to the roadmap of the psychological journey.
Gosh I love Meghan. I love how she told him she would not be raising their children in that kind of environment. When Harry talked about breaking generational trauma, I’m sure this was one of the incidents he was talking about. She calmly set him straight which supports the long standing narrative that Meghan doesn’t like confrontations. As soon as Harry snapped at her, she left the room to create space for both of them to calm down and reflect. Very different to how William angrily followed Harry into the kitchen. Meghan knows her boundaries and will not put up with disrespect, something I’m sure William and his staff viewed as “difficult” and “rude”.
“Where did you ever hear a man speak like that to a woman?” Powerful question. It changed the course of Harry’s life.
Their relationship work because they’re respect and undestand each other.
Meghan knew that Harry had a serious problem and need help from profesional, thats why she wasnt “mad” or shout back to Harry and made everything worse. And Harry soon realised his mistake, thats why he stoped shouting and listen what Meghan said.
Its a beautifull relationship
And that is how a fully formed adult handles things. So looking forward to reading the book and getting everything in context. Right now, sound bites are being taken out of context and sensationalized for clicks. I’m hopeful that in the long term, Harry’s book leads to greater mental health awareness and the healing process one goes through. You really have to face and tell the truth to get to the other side. It seems like Spare was a catharsis for Harry in his healing process from all the life long abuse he suffered.
Who could be surprised by this? When you think about all of William’s rage issues and looking at how awful Charles is….and how awful the Queen and Phillip were….OF COURSE Harry had learned that behavior and acted in that way. He’s lucky he has Megan to call him out on it, and he’s commendable for getting therapy to change the awful ways he has learned and internalized.
Meghan showed him his dysfunctional family dynamic and said it’s not the way I will live. I don’t know what he said to her, but I image that worse had been said to him in family arguments.
Kudos to Harry for accepting that Meghan was showing him a better world and getting the therapy to change.
A few months after my husband and I moved in together, we got in an argument and he started yelling at me. I told him that it wasn’t acceptable and he was not to speak to me that way. He truly didn’t know any better because his parents had a volatile relationship where they screamed at each other constantly. He never did it again. We were very young so it wasn’t great maturity or anything on my part. I also didn’t know that someone might treat me that way because my parents are always very respectful of each other even when arguing.
@Sarah, you knew better. I really hope people listen and take this part of the memoir to heart.
That Meghan was a fully formed woman –which is to say, a woman who knows her worth, knows her boundaries, knows what behavior she will & won’t accept from people, including H, and knows how to achieve things without bringing other people down –is precisely why her mere existence is antithetical to the monarchy. Like, the monarchical institution and the people that represent it (the Windsors, including Camilla and Anne) cannot handle a woman coming into the fold who loves herself enough to refuse to be hazed.
I’m impressed by the way both handled this situation. I can’t imagine what he said, but it must have been mean. He did lay blame on a language difference. Even though they both speak English, the interpretation of specific terms differs. I’m confident this isn’t the first time they’ve discovered their words have different meanings, but it has yet to lead to a fierce argument. I think she left the room because his anger frightened her, and the bedroom was the only safe place to go. She couldn’t grab her coat and car keys and go home. A violent man would have followed her into the bedroom, continued the screaming, and in most cases, it would lead to physical confrontation. I’m thankful he gave himself time to regroup and, most likely, her to cry. The beginning of their relationship was performative. This incident defined the true origin of a lasting relationship.
MerlinsDad and I have had some DefCon 12 blow outs in our marriage which unfortunately our girls witnessed. Neither one of us were willing to give an inch back then and we both recognized then and now that it wasn’t healthy. (I had a happy childhood, let’s just say he absolutely did not and striking out verbally was what he knew. Never physically, he’s a big dude and could have done serious damage. I was taught to stand up for myself and not back down. Some combo huh?)
While our girls witnessed the arguments they also saw us go cool off then come back and sit down and apologize to each other (and them) and hold hands and talk it out. We always started off with I love you and I apologize, then we went to work on the issue
I know it wasn’t/isn’t healthy for kids to witness that sort of thing, it’s very frightening, but that was who we were then, no changing it
I applaud Meghan for Nope and walking away and I applaud Harry for realizing he crossed a line. They’re a hell of a team
My husband and I had horrible screaming hours-long fights a couple times a year for the first few years we were together. We both came from abusive homes in which screaming was the norm. It can be overcome and people can change when they love each other. We never do that any longer, but it took a long time to overcome the toxic patterns we’d been brought up with. And honestly, we were doing better than my parents from the start — a screaming fight once every few months is a lot better than one every single weekend, though still not okay. (Now we occasionally “bicker” for like 15 minutes, usually while laughing.)
I’m glad Meghan was able to see what was happening right away, and that Harry was able to listen to her.
I read something recently that has stuck with me: people who yell in anger do so because they feel they aren’t being heard. They feel the other person isn’t listening and subconsciously they are yelling to break through to force the person to hear them.
I love love love that Meghan immediately recognized 1. Harry’s behavior had nothing to do with her and 2. He needed to deal with the real cause of his not feeling heard.
I also love love love that Harry deeply listened to what she told him.
Bravo to Meghan for setting a boundary, bravo to Harry for respecting it and learning from it. People learn all kinds of bad behavior from toxic relationships. The ability to recognize toxicity and do the work to unlearn it is a skill that we need to promote and applaud. Harry and Meghan are a relationship of 2 competent adults who can celebrate their strengths and recognize their vulnerabilities. Their love has been hard-fought and hard-won.
Many years ago I had a similar conversation with my then partner after he’d done something very disrespectful to me. As his career had skyrocketed over the years we’d been together (he had become senior partner at a prestigious law firm) his behaviour changed drastically. He became smug, arrogant and sarcastic. Instead of losing my temper I left the room, went upstairs and started watching TV. He finally came into the room and was just being jocular, like nothing had happened. I told him if what he’d said to me happened one more time, I was outta there. It worked for a while, but then he regressed, I caught him in an affair, but instead of getting angry or weeping or dramatic, I just left. Clearly Harry got the drift and started working on himself — there are so many people who won’t put in the work, but kudos to him. He realized he had something precious with Meghan and was willing to reach inside of himself and find out what was wrong, then correct it.
Being a lawyer in that kind of environment really works changes on people. It did it to my husband. He never became abusive, loud or angry, but he became, for lack of a better word, bossy. He would bring his authoritative, critical work persona into his personal life
I told him that he had every right to ask me to do things that needed doing at home (I was working part time so it was only fair for me to do more of that), but NOT to talk to me like I was one of his his associates who had been late with a project. He worked on it and has gotten a lot better.
Meghan is amazing. So is Doria.
Part of me wonders what issues cropped up during Meghan’s first marriage and if her first husband ever pulled a similar stunt. Pure speculation and I don’t think we’ll ever know the story behind Meghan’s divorce (though we’ve seen rumors in the press of course). But after that relationship didn’t work out for whatever reasons it didn’t work out, she must have done the work and had a lot of clarity of what she would and would not tolerate in her next relationship. Good for her for setting boundaries and for Harry on respecting them.
^ I recall seeing something on the Tig, during the time she was on Suits. It was after her divorce but a couple years or so before she met H. It was a poem, stating all the things [the writer] would no longer tolerate or put up with or excuse in bad behavior……..some things along that line.
It struck me then that she had come thru an experience and had learned the hard way and was never going back to certain habits.
This, right here, is itself a true public service — offering people trapped in these kinds of relationships a blueprint for how to move from toxic screaming to quietly but firmly stating your expectations and how you deserve to be treated.
Meghan is an amazing person. So is Harry. This kind of openness really helps people.
Sussexwatcher You said that she wanted inpatient care for her suicidal ideation and that they wrongly went to the family to get help. I disagree with both claims. As far as we know we don’t know what type of care she wanted, but I doubt it was inpatient care because if that were the case, when she and Harry got her help they didn’t use inpatient care. It seems to me that if that is what she wanted and the final outcome was through her and Harry’s actions, they would have done what she wanted to do regarding care. Also, they didn’t go to the family, she went to the firm or institution, which for an American and maybe most people, if you have a new job you approach your new job to find out what options are available and allowed within that job regarding health benefits or mental health benefits. I don’t think that her approaching them for help was wrong, the thing that was wrong is that they wanted to pretend she wasn’t an employee (eye roll because she was an employee that doing the work better than the other senior working royals there) and they leaked that information to the media to help them torment a pregnant suicidal woman even more.
Nerd, she definitely wanted inpatient care. She stated it very clearly during the Oprah interview. I believe she said she talked to senior people in the firm and also HR No matter where she went within the Firm she was told that she couldn’t do that because of “how it would look.” HR told her she wasn’t an employee, so they couldn’t help her. Their ONLY recourse was individual therapy. That’s all really that they said. Meghan wanted inpatient treatment because she not only was thinking about suicide but knew how she would do it.
@Nerd she absolutely said she wanted inpatient care.
How awful. If your spouse says hey I want to kill myself and I know how I will do it – you drive them to the ER.
Meghan is an absolute Goddess. I am learning to be calm but honestly, I would have yelled back and probably lock him out of the bedroom all night. Lmao
I read this and felt so full of awe for her strength, and then I thought “. . . and they almost killed her.” For real, we know this is who she is, this incredibly strong woman, and what the BRF and the media did to her almost killed her. With all that we’ve already heard, the full truth must be so much worse.
this is why Harry and Meghan stress mental health to get to a place of calm and acceptance of what is right and what is wrong-I very glad Harry shared this tidbit because whatever the argument was it was coming from genetic pain through Harry’s upbringing and social interactions.-His father antics with Harry’s mom was definitely genetic pain and abuse of another person-I now understand why it is so difficult in that family to show geniune love or concern for others-Laughing and grinning for the photogs doesn’t cut it.
[She asked,] ’Where did you ever hear a man speak like that to a woman? Did you overhear adults speak that way when you were growing up?’ I cleared my throat, looked away [and responded], ‘Yes.’”
I remember reading Harry as a child hitting Charles’ legs after seeing Charles and Diana’s argument and said “I hate you, I hate you, you make mummy cry”.
I feel so bad for Diana, but mostly, I feel so bad for Harry, I understand how it felt like to feel hopeless in this situation, feeling hurt that your mother is hurting, and eventually carrying the same toxic trait with you, im so glad he found meghan and got back into therapy again.
This makes me feel sad for William – he clearly can recognize intellectually that this behavior pattern is unhealthy enough to try and help his brother break from it, but hasn’t broken away from it himself. The patterns we learn growing up are so alluring and emotionally comfortable. William’s status means he’s surrounded by people who will enable his bad behavior. Only he can make the choice to grow and change like he wanted for Harry. Now that Harry has accomplished it, Will has even pushed Harry away. He’s an undeservedly privileged man (to put it mildly) but probably very, very unhappy inside.
William is unwell, it explains his behaviour not excuses it.
There is no plausible excuses for his abusive attitude towards his brother and his wife.
It is easy to recognize that Harry is unable to cope.
He never asked Why?
Is it partly because of him that Harry was having difficulties?
His unreasonable expectations ?
His assumptions of perfection as future king?
What is evident is Harry is a work in progress.
Well done Harry.
The ability to self-regulate is deeply empowering. I think that therapy, life experience and lifestyle are all components of the self-regulation puzzle, which most people need to work on their entire lives. If you’ve been gaslit, dismissed, treated as less, or suffered discrimination, self regulation can help you bend your anger and hurt in the direction of healthy, self-protective boundaries, productive change and compassion. Harry seems to have suffered emotional abuse most of his life, and I’m glad he is walking the path of healing and self-regulation.
Iris Murdoch once said that education serves two main purposes.
The are as follows- a recognition of when one is loved or when one is abused.
l stand in awe of Meghan’ s intelligence and compassion in that moment when they disagreed.
Meghan intuited that Harry, not unlike many people who uses repression as a coping mechanism , did not know how to deal with negative emotions, so her response was compassionate, yet firm in its resolve.
Dealing properly with differences of opinion is part of a healthy relationship.
They passed the big test of a relationship; that my pastor in the old country described as if one is in a relationship and contemplating marriage.
Do not set the date until there is a huge disagreement, if both parties feel the same way after the argument as before, then get married.