At some point, perhaps this week, we can discuss the British media’s irresponsible words and phrasing when it comes to matters of assault and abuse. When Prince William assaulted his brother in Nottingham Cottage, it was not a “fight,” nor was it a case of “fisticuffs.” It was an assault. It was violence. It was a man physically abusing his younger brother. I bring this up because, as I’ve long believed, William put his hands on Harry following Prince Philip’s funeral in 2021. The Windsors were practically gleeful about getting Harry alone- especially just weeks after the Oprah interview – and Charles and William ganged up on Harry. It was there that William “lunged” at Harry.
Prince William twice lunged at brother Harry in a physical bust-up in front of dad Charles just after Prince Philip’s funeral. Harry says in his new book Spare that a “steaming” and “shouting” William “grabbed my shirt” as the three of them held peace talks in the gardens of Frogmore Cottage in April 2021.
Harry claims the pair and their dad Charles went on a half-hour stroll, arriving at a gothic ruin near Frogmore Cottage in Windsor. They discussed his Oprah Winfrey interview from weeks earlier. Harry claims he tried to reason with his brother and father, and wanted to discuss bullying allegations against wife Meghan. But they weren’t listening, he said, and he was turning away to say goodbye.
He says William, who was “really steaming”, shouted at him: “You never came to us. You never came to me.” Harry expressed his feelings over their Megxit agreement being “violated” when William shouted he should “take it up with Granny”. Harry wrote: “I waved a hand, disgusted, but he lunged, grabbed my shirt. ‘Listen to me, Harold’. I pulled away, refused to meet his gaze. He forced me to look into his eyes. Listen to me, Harold, listen! I love you, Harold! I want you to be happy.”
Harry claims he fired back with “I love you too…but your stubbornness is extraordinary!” He pulled out of William’s grasp but claims his brother grabbed him again and twisted him to maintain eye contact. He says in the book: “Harold, you must listen to me! I just want you to be happy, Harold. I swear I swear on Mummy’s life. He stopped. I stopped. Pa stopped. He’d gone there. He’d used the secret code, the universal password. Ever since we were boys those three words were to be used only in times of extreme crisis.”
Harry said he was ready at that point to fly back to the US to be with Meghan. He wrote: “Willy wasn’t quite ready to accept defeat.. ‘I’ve felt properly sick and ill after everything that’s happened and, and I swear to you now on Mummy’s life that I just want you to be happy’.
Harry added: “My voice broke as I told him softly: I really don’t think you do.”
The Sun on Sunday understands that William did hug his brother and told him “I love you”.
In retrospect, it should have just been Charles and Harry taking a walk and making some of the first steps towards working on some of their issues. Including William in this ensured that Charles and William could gang up on Harry, and then William would get in Harry’s space and his face. The description of William grabbing Harry is upsetting, especially since just two years before, William had violently assaulted Harry and thrown him to the floor.
In this section of the book, Harry apparently reflects on how bizarre it is that the family reunited for a funeral: “Now I saw that even our finest moments, and my best memories, somehow involved death. Our lives were built on death, our brightest days shadowed by it. Looking back, I didn’t see spots of time, but dances with death.” He looked around at Windsor Castle and wondered if the family was a death cult (hint: they are!).
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Instar, WENN and cover courtesy of The Sun.
-
- North America Rights Only – Windsor, UK -20210417-Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh Funeral at Windsor Castle -PICTURED: Prince William and Prince Harry -PHOTO by: PA Images/INSTARimages.com Disclaimer: This is an editorial, rights-managed image. Please contact INSTAR Images for licensing fee and rights information at sales@instarimages.com or call +1 212 414 0207. This image may not be published in any way that is, or might be deemed to be, defamatory, libelous, pornographic, or obscene. Please consult our sales department for any clarification needed prior to publication and use. INSTAR Images reserves the right to pursue unauthorized users of this material. If you are in violation of our intellectual property rights or copyright you may be liable for damages, loss of income, any profits you derive from the unauthorized use of this material and, where appropriate, the cost of collection and/or any statutory damages awarded For images containing underage children: Be advised that some Countries may have restricted privacy laws against publishing images of underage children. Inform yourself! Underage children may need to be removed or have their face pixelated before publishing
-
- The Funeral of the Duke of Edinburgh at Windsor Castle . The Duke died at Windsor Castle aged 99 on April 9th 2021 Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, and his brother Harry Windsor,Image: 606149356, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Ian Vogler / Avalon
-
- The Funeral of the Duke of Edinburgh at Windsor Castle . The Duke died at Windsor Castle aged 99 on April 9th 2021 Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, and his brother Harry Windsor,Image: 606149368, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Ian Vogler / Avalon
-
- Prince Harry walking in the procession at Windsor Castle, Berkshire, during the funeral of the Duke of Edinburgh., Credit:Victoria Jones / Avalon Where: United Kingdom When: 17 Apr 2021 Credit: WENN/Avalon *****ONLY AVAILABLE FOR AGREED WENN SUBSCRIPTION DEALS*****
-
- The Duke of Cambridge and Prince Harry walking in the procession at Windsor Castle, Berkshire, during the funeral of the Duke of Edinburgh., Credit:Victoria Jones / Avalon Where: United Kingdom When: 17 Apr 2021 Credit: WENN/Avalon *****ONLY AVAILABLE FOR AGREED WENN SUBSCRIPTION DEALS*****
-
- The Duke of Cambridge walking in the procession at Windsor Castle, Berkshire, during the funeral of the Duke of Edinburgh., Credit:Victoria Jones / Avalon Where: United Kingdom When: 17 Apr 2021 Credit: WENN/Avalon *****ONLY AVAILABLE FOR AGREED WENN SUBSCRIPTION DEALS*****
-
- Image Licensed to i-Images Picture Agency. 17/04/2021. Windsor , United Kingdom. Funeral of Prince Philip, The Duke of Edinburgh, at Windsor Castle., Credit:Stephen Lock / i-Images / Avalon Where: United Kingdom When: 17 Apr 2021 Credit: WENN/Avalon *****ONLY AVAILABLE FOR AGREED WENN SUBSCRIPTION DEALS*****
-
- (From R) Britain’s Prince Andrew, Duke of York, Britain’s Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, Peter Phillips, Britain’s Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex and Vice Admiral Timothy Laurence march behind the coffin during the ceremonial funeral procession of Britain’s Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh to St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle in Windsor, west of London, on April 17, 2021. – Philip, who was married to Queen Elizabeth II for 73 years, died on April 9 aged 99 just weeks after a month-long stay in hospital for treatment to a heart condition and an infection., Credit:JUSTIN TALLIS / Avalon Where: United Kingdom When: 17 Apr 2021 Credit: WENN/Avalon *****ONLY AVAILABLE FOR AGREED WENN SUBSCRIPTION DEALS*****
Why can’t grown adults keep their hands to themselves? If this were a real institution and workplace, William would be let go. You can’t move through life without physically attacking someone else? You need help and a time out in prison.
Sadly, this isn’t always the case. On my first day at my previous job, I was told by both my manager and the head of HR that I should expect to be screamed at by one of the executives (who happened to be British, but living in Canada) but to not take it personally — that’s just his personality and the workplace culture is that of a family and families have disagreements. I was shocked. Didn’t take long for me to experience his temper first hand. Needless to say, I resigned quickly.
Obviously he didn’t lay his hands on me but he did grab one of the interns and scream in his face to the point spittle was flying. The poor intern said no one had ever treated him like that in his life but he put up with it because he was from India on a work permit and had no options or support.
Jazz Hands, good for you. I am in a similar type organization where leadership feels it’s ok to yell, swear and demean staff. Any hints on finding tve strength to leave without a back up job waiting?
Hey Britain,
If you think your current King is bad, his heir will be waaay worse. You all should be very worried. Your next king has got ISSUES!
Good Luck!
Um, thanks?! Brexit, cost of living crisis, 13 years of devastating Tory (mis)rule, NHS on it’s knees with 1,000s dying waiting for ambulances, and the prospect of this dickwad becoming king some day? To say I’m extremely worried is an understatement.
ETA: although tbh much as I can’t stand William, he’s the least of what’s scary in the UK right now/in the foreseeable future. He’s a toxic individual but he’s never going to have much real influence over the political or day to day lives of Brits.
Dumping the Charlie and Billy, removing the 600 million wasted on these pampered poodles annually, reclaiming both Duchies, and forcing the Windsors to pay inheritance tax on the recently-inherited billion? I think that would help the UK immensely.
Well sure, it would be a good start but a) not going to happen, certainly not overnight, and b) sadly it would still be a drop in the ocean – as an example the NHS is about £200 BILLION per year.
600 million annually, retaking control of the two Duchies, and extracting tax out of the Windsors is far more than a ‘drop in the bucket’. Taxing them on the massive inheritance they just received tax-free could start right now. Hoping Scotland decides to do just that immediately with Balmoral and all the past taxes the royals never paid.
@notasugarhere – as much as I like to agree with you the problem is where would the reclaimed money go? After 12 years of austerity we saw billions go into the hands of a few greedy Tory peers and their cronies. This government has never been about equality so, even if they did start controlling the BRF’s wealth I doubt very much if the people of Britain would see much benefit.
Sounds like a great idea to me. I have always wondered why the British put up with all that pomp ceremony and expense. I could never understand that while at war with Germany WW1 you would tolerate Germans declaring them selves Windsors. I don’t understand the curtsy or bowing either. They are just humans like me. You wrote is so well. Thanks
Bravo, and it’s a good start. we have to start somewhere.
I would love to see it happen, absolutely. Just giving you my perspective as someone who lives in the UK.
I wonder how far Will’s rage would have gone had Charles not been present. A psychiatric evaluation is needed for that raging bull and Henry’s not safe by himself around his brother.
I shudder to think the type of heir and king William would have been during the time periods where there were no rules for Kings. What was that iron mask Kings name? that’s Willy for you!!
During the actual period when there were “no rules” for Kings, they also had to lead armies into battle. This had a tendency to end the reigns of really bad kings. Good ones as well, sadly.
There also was the limit of your own noble subjects raising an army and coming to attack you. Hence, my favorite Twitter jokes about Harry forming an alliance with the Burgundians or the Low Countries.
Kings in those days were also the law of the land. Disputes between nobles were decided by the King. There weren’t courts in the modern sense. William wouldn’t be able to handle that part of the job and thus would either have to adapt or expect a shorter life than nature intended.
Iron Mask? Do you mean Louis XIV of France, aka the Sun King?
He is probably the prototype for an absolute king.
He revoked the Edict of Nantes and allowed Protestants to be prosecuted again if they did not move out. Lots of them fled to countries like England and the Netherlands after that. Dumb move as they often had lots of money and trading connections, so that all left France as well.
Other countries were weary of him as he showed he wasn’t unwilling to wage war to get more power. That’s when France, England, Munster and Cologne teamed up to attack the Netherlands from all sides, so I might be a bit bitter towards him 😉
Of course, he’s most famous for Versailles; a symbol of absolute, decadent rule.
Most Definitely. He seems to be a rather hateful person.
You know, I can believe that William THINKS he loves Harry and THINKS he wants Harry to be happy. the issues are what William thinks love is (he thinks its him calling all the shots and being in total control out of “love”) and what William thinks would make Harry happy – in William’s mind, its Harry coming back to the royal fold to be the scapegoat again.
Basically William thought things were fine before and he doesn’t understand why Harry insists they never were. William thinks if HE is happy, then people around him are happy, so what’s the issue?
Toxic people rarely (ever) know that they’re toxic and problematic, so why would William? Outside of his mother, who do we think really corrected his behavior or his assumptions or his worldview?
All I’m getting from this is 1) William never really knew Harry 2) William DESPERATELY need THERAPY and anger management
ETA: And yes, William assumed things were great because it was working for HIM
I actually don’t think William can separate his identity from those around him. Harry must be an extension of William. So I hear William saying desperately, “I just want to be happy.” Because he isn’t & he can’t understand why.
What a painful interaction.
I totally get the family that wants you to be “happy,” but also thinks you must be lying when you tell them how unhappy you are.
Narcissists and sociopaths feel that way. It’s always all about them.
Exactly – happy, in a way that works for me and causes me no sacrifice, because it’s all about me.
I applaud Harry for leaving, and for putting this out there, but the more I read, the less I want to keep reading. This is such a sad, dysfunctional family, and I’m looking forward to him moving past this and focusing on good stuff.
Totally agree. They couldn’t and didn’t recognize that Harry was dying on the inside. The crumbs they threw him, albeit from a silver platter, just wasn’t nurturing or sustainable enough. But, then again, people who’ve always had the lion’s share of everything seem to rarely understand why people with relatively so little should be complaining.
Agreed. Imo control is the key word. William needs to control everyone around him, it’s how he expresses care but also what he expects as deference to him.
He’s never been prepared for a world he can’t control. We see that in his reactions to Harry any time Harry does something that’s good for himself.
The whole family is super dysfunctional and even sick.
William’s behaviour is pathological. I thought I kind of knew his character since every article, even the “good” ones, describe him as incandescent with rage. But reading these specific examples that Harry keeps giving… I’m stunned. He needs therapy but like a true toxic male, probably sees that as a weakness and thinks there’s nothing wrong with him anyway.
I wonder if this is what that one reporter meant when he said something like “can’t wait until we can write the truth about William”. It wasn’t about affairs, which is normalized in that set. It was about what an abusive asshole he is, not just to Harry, but anyone who happens to come across his path. The heir to the throne is an abusive rage monster who can’t behave like a healthy adult and the rota have been covering up for him his entire life.
I wonder if this is what that one reporter meant when he said something like “can’t wait until we can write the truth about William”. –> I had the same thought.
The man is an abuser, which means at some point, he’s mistreated not just family members but aids and employees in the Firm. That means there is serious dirt on him–dirt that has legal implications.
@MF I agree. It would also make sense as to why Harry’s titles are such a big issue. If (God forbid) anything happens to Charles and William becomes king then all it would take is one misstep on William’s part and it goes straight to George. If George is under the age of 18 then Harry becomes Prince Regent.
Harry himself has said he believes in the monarchy and both Charles and TQ were/are reluctant to remove him from the line of succession. I think they’re ALL worried about William’s temper and what it could mean to the monarchy. Harry is their safety net and they ALL know it.
I see William in desperation. A desperate person would act in desperate ways. I support Prince Harry, so I’m going to start wishing his brother kindness.
To William, may you be happy. May you be free from hatred. May you be free from pain and suffering, and may you have love in your heart.
There is a clip out there where an Aussie journalist states that William is not the warm and cuddly character everyone thinks he is and that is an understatement from what we have seen over the last few years.
I think William has been like this his whole life and the family have enabled it whilst grooming Harry to accept it, especially after Diana died.
I feel that is also where A LOT of Harry’s frustrations originate from. Harry suppressed himself for so long and couldn’t understand why he felt so disconnected and numb. In the Bradby interview at one point he states that he has no memories before a certain age – another trauma response likely bourne out of the family tacitly making it clear that Diana was a forbidden subject. So as a child what else do you do except freeze and cut yourself off from part of yourself – just so the family you have left at least give you some crumbs of affection.
Then Harry truly connected with another human being (Meghan) and that made it IMPOSSIBLE for him to continue to shut down parts of himself just for survival sake.
William made the opposite decision. When he realised he couldn’t make it work with Jecca he gave up on the dream of happiness, became stoic and settled for Kate. That is why Harry’s joy irked him. Putting it down to jealousy alone is to simplistic. Instead I think rather much like Kate, William was triggered by H&M and their free spirited fcuk it and let’s be happy and in love first attitude.
William and Kate are the archetypal controlling first borns from dysfunctional families who live in a perpetual state of victimhood and whose parents lent on them too much. They feel they made huge sacrifices in their childhood to make their parents proud and never rebel because it never occurs to them, that they can. Then when they see younger siblings priortising their happiness they take it personally. In Williams case he also bizarrely feels that Harry was treated better and indulged more as the attention he got was purely about preserving the crown, whilst Harry was the funny personable one people connected to and felt they could be at ease at. Yet in the next sentence they admonish their in-laws for being too familiar (make it make sense).
He’s very much like the abusive spouse that is shocked, just shocked that their wife is leaving, because they had a perfect marriage. My ex BIL was like that, and the marriage was perfect for him because everyone was terrified of him and trying to keep him happy at all times.
As far as “the truth” about William that everyone wants to write, I’ve believed it was among the things that Royal Foibles said about Harry. Royal Foibles had the inside tea on the Kate/Rose press things because they’re close to courtiers, since that scoop he basically turned it into a Meghan hate site where he writes what the courtiers have convinced themselves of her. He said Harry had some mental defects and had to be kept busy in a structured environment or he would go into rages and was unable to control himself. Sound like anything?
“… I swear to you now on Mummy’s life that I just want you to be happy.”
William wants Harry to be ‘happy’ on WILLIAM’s terms, so what he’s really saying is: “I want you to be happy … being my whipping boy. I want you to be happy … with me mistreating and smearing you and your wife. I want you to be happy … with what I deign to give you.”
That’s why he’s so upset. Because Harry said, “nope, I’ll be happy on MY TERMS.”
Will’s behavior sure sounds like abuser tactics. “I love you,” then hit them.
Yeah. What I was thinking. It’s like the article about PW screaming at staff but it was okay because he apologized afterward.
I agree 100%.. also Peggy should not have to insert himself into every relationship that Prince Harry has. It is unsettling that Prince Harry had to justify his marriage and choices with Peggy but he is also not allowed to have a conversation with his father without Peggy controlling that also. When did Peggy become the controller of all things? He needs to get serious help.
Poor Harry. He really was in an abusive relationship with his brother for his entire life. The physical abuse, then the apologies (I didn’t mean it, you know I love you – let me physically hold your face and make you look me in the eye – classic abuser behavior), the gaslighting, the attempts at control. I’m so proud of Harry for doing the hard work of deep therapy and saying no more. And I am so glad he and the Sussex family are out of there.
I hope these revelations will make the U.K. reevaluate their monarchy, but I doubt that will happen.
Yup, it just sounds so abusive. I also get the impression that his conscience is starting to eat him up inside. He is so gross.
It really is disturbing. William needs therapy. Intensive therapy and soon, before his toxicity further damages the lives of his children because he likely subjects his kids to the same kind of love bombing.
According to the English nonprofit Solace, love bombing is “where an abusive partner is bombarding ‘love’ onto their victim and is part of emotional abuse and coercive control.”
That is what William did to Harry in this episode.
Wow! Peace and love Windsor style: I love you so much I’m going to assault you and yell at you to prove it. I just want you to be happy. On Mummy’s life!
The thing I finally got last night as I watched Harry and Anderson Cooper, is that Harry thinks without the British media and the invisible contract, his family would be fine instead of a toxic waste dump. But I wanted to point out to him that so much of the pain he and Meghan have endured has been from his family alone. The media hasn’t ordered his family to abuse him like this. They have been weaponized to abuse him for sure, but the actual abuse comes from his family. I worry that he will never see how ugly his father and brother are, and that they will probably never change. They called a “peace” summit and then ambushed him with more physical violence!
Yes, exactly this! Last night I kept remarking that Harry fails to recognize that everything started within the palace. The Royal Family was the first domino. As people here point out, “The calls come from inside the house”. I’m surprised Harry isn’t accepting that.
It was crazy to me when he said (in the ITV interview I think) that in every room in every palace and family home, the trash papers are laid out each day. They live in an echo chamber.
Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
I think he realizes that and that’s why he won’t go back. But Harry is probably a non confrontational type person who would just like to be able to get along with his family if he comes for an occasional visit. But these people are dangerous and Harry is wise to keep an ocean and a continent between them.
@Brassy Rebel: So true. Let’s face it. It wasn’t the media that chose that dreadful blackamoor broach cousin Kent wore to the introductory luncheon. That racism was all family.
There’s a life-size blackamoor lamp in the entry hall at Camilla’s Ray Mill House. Google “Ray Mill interior” and see for yourself. There are blackamoor wall sconces in Charles’ and Camilla’s “marital home” Birkhall. Google the photos from the zooms they did during lock-down. William and Kate famously have the “negro page” painting hanging in their living room. Google the stories from when Obama visited. Representations of black people in bondage is a consistent interior-decoration theme in the private living spaces of the senior royals. Note that the blackamoor lights remained in place and in public photos even after the publicity storm about Princess Michael’s brooch.
I feel like we’re getting bits and pieces everywhere but he did say in another interview that without the press his family would still be dysfunctional or something along those lines?
But I do agree I don’t know if it’s being generous, protection or just not seeing it but he seems to think that initially the press influenced his family and then his family joined with the press when they saw an opportunity to get better PR for themselves? It sounds like he’s saying the family put heavy stock in what the papers are saying even though it’s the rota who are transcribing what the press offices what them to say. It’s just a continuous echo chamber. So weird
That is not the case at all. Harry said, in the 60 Minutes intervew, that without the British media, his family would still likely be fairly dysfunctional.
I do think he sounds like someone who hasn’t given up hope that his toxic relatives will make the choice to heal, (and unfortunately, they probably won’t or if they do, it might not be for decades and he will have to keep grey rocking them until then which is hard).
@Brassy rebel, that’s exactly what I believe too. I would include his grandmother alongside his father and brother.
The description of that last talk, with William insisting he loves Harry and wants him happy, is straight up disturbing. All of the abuse heaped on Harry and the woman he loves and William has the audacity to say he really loves Harry and wants him happy. His words don’t match his deeds. He nearly drove Meghan to suicide. Harry’s wife and child would have died if she hadn’t gotten help and this severely damaged man-child says he loves his little bro. No, William, you don’t and Harry is realizing it.
I think in William’s version, he does love his brother and he does want him to be happy. That being said, it must be on William’s terms. “I love you. I want you to be happy. But just not with this woman.” I know we are mostly Team Harry here, but what I have gotten from these interviews is that there were two horribly damaged boys. Damage likely began long before Diana’s death. After, the family did nothing for them. Expected them to carry on – keep that stiff upper lip – and “get on with it.” I’ve no doubt that William was just as damaged as Harry was. The difference between the two is that the apparatus – the Firm – is built to support William and not Harry. It’s truly tragic.
In William’s mind, Meghan is the source of Harry’s unhappiness. He has to believe this and will continue to cling to it because he can’t cope with the truth, which is that he (William) is the source of Harry’s unhappiness.
This whole thing is terrifying.
William thought that Meghan wouldn’t make Harry happy because he thinks she’s not good enough. So he didn’t want Harry to choose Meghan. Harry chose her. Harry is now unhappily estranged from the family, therefore William thinks he was right all along. Meghan is the problem and they won’t reconcile until Harry recognizes his “mistake.” I don’t know if they’re even capable of seeing the situation any other way.
Notice how Charles isn’t doing shit while Will is grabbing Harry and screaming in his face. Useless as ever.
God, William sucks. He sounds absolutely awful to be around. And he is the absolute psychological copy of Charles: “whatever love means.”
Charles is in the corner mewling “don’t make my final years miserable” or something.
What, like Charles is going to get into the brawl?
I have two daughters who love each other. Thirty years ago one daughter husband sold a 20 year old truck ‘as is’ to the other. The one that bought it came at the seller for, rust and other things you would find on an old truck. The seller was a quiet man and gave a check they could not afford. Tears everywhere. My oldest daughter came in and wrote a check to her sister. This is where I got invoked. I spoke to all of them but told the boys- we do not do things like this in our family. We stick together and help each other. Charles needs to man up and sit down with his boys as I did. I was firm, a little angry but made it clear. Don’t ever do that again. Likely a comment that is too long but you needed to know the background. CHARLES, YOU ARE KING OF A COUNTRY, MAN UP, BECOME THE HEAD OF THE HOUSEHOLD. TALK TO ALL OF THEM IN PERSON.
This is incredibly painful stuff. I’m so glad The Sussexes got out and I hope they find the health and healing they need.
This is my reaction too. William is his fathers son for sure.
Honestly I gasped last night during the Camilla throwing Diana’s sons got the wolves part. It was hard not to cry.
How much damage Camilla has done – ruined the monarchy of anyone has- and Charles just a servile sub to her. Really pathetic and horrifying after what she did to Diana. (Sorry if this is threadjack I just needed to express this.)
Now we know why there was a spate of articles all sayong “Harry better not talk about Camilla…”
The Windsors were a dysfunctional and emotionally stunted bunch way before Camilla entered the picture, but she has certainly upped the ante by using the press extensively to create even more conflict. I do think that she has been a very destructive influence on this family (and hence the institution) but let’s not kid ourselves. This family has been dysfunctional since their family name was Hannover. Back then (18th and early 19th century) the conflicts were out in the open and accepted because that was understood to be an integral part of the royal system. Things changed with Victoria where the royal family now came to be positioned as the ideal British family – and that makes the kinds of familial conflict that has plagued this dynasty for centuries deadly for the institution. Because they are decidedly NOT the ideal national family that there are supposed to be.
@ArtHistorian you’re absolutely right. I mentioned this before but there’s always been an issue when the spare goes into the military and becomes a hero that the heir can’t compete with. The whole system is barbaric for much more, and based on the absurd claim that god picked these people. That lie based on Henry VIII needing a way out of his marriage to with his mistress!
These are not good people.
Will is a mess and even with this sensationalized twist on Harry’s words I understand why Harry has such compassion for him.
Willy is clearly miserable with the restrictions that come with being a Heir in waiting and is unhealthily possessive of the family members he love and trust. His love unfortunately is worthless since it can not be expressed in a healthy manner and is pared with jealousy and anger issues. The only solution for people lower in the hierarchy like Harry is distance.
William sounds like that psychopath boyfriend- I love you and this is why I need to control you all the time.
What is it with William? I think it’s obvious Meghan makes Harry happy, and has done so from day one. Why does this cause his brother so much anger rather than joy? IMO It comes down to simple jealousy and reflects badly on the dynamics of his relationship with Kate which, the more he goes on getting angry, seems less and less like one based on love. Also, on a side note – this “Mummy” stuff. I know other families use Mummy rather than Mum/Mother, but it is a bit babyish to me. However, this may well be because Diana died when W&H were young and in their case is perfectly understandable. But it seems used throughout the older royal family, as we saw with Andrew and Charles’ “Mummy” responses to the queen’s death.
The “mummy” thing is pretty usual for the upper classes, odd as it may sound to the rest of us.
Signed, a middle class woman married to a posh bloke.
As a middle class woman with an upper middle class posh partner, I was asking him about this the other day. He and his friends, reaching into the lower aristocracy, do not use Mummy. Ma and Pa common enough, one of his friends calling his mum “Mother (poor boy being left at prep to board at 4, which was still quite common then). One set calling their mum and dad by their first names. Quite a few having nicknames for their parents and boarding school nicknames for one another that last a lifetime. Mummy isn’t his experience. But hey ho, that’s the rich tapestry of life!!!
In my family and among our acquaintances it’s Mamma and Papa (the latter given that the language of Gentry was French almost everywhere for a long time).
Joe Biden’s sons lost their mother at a young age. I read in Hunter’s memoir that they refer to bio mom as “Mommy” and to Jill Biden as “Mom.”
I remember an old interview with Christina Aguilera about this (I think it was Behind the Music, LOL). She called her stepdad “Dad” and her bio dad “daddy” (I think the bio dad was abusive towards the mom? I just remember this from the context where she won her first Grammy and thanked her mom and dad and then asked her mom later, “do you think [stepdad] knew I was referring to him and not [bio dad]”? and the mom said yes, he definitely knew.
Brits use “mummy” a lot. It’s not just royals.
That’s interesting to me as a Brit. Is this your experience as a Brit? It’s really interesting. My experience is to use Mummy until out of prep/primary and then switch. It is stands out when a late teen or adult carries on with it. This crosses the board from state school kids to private, and then adults. We are currently switching out of private schooling, against family tradition and dislike on my partner’s side, into state. As I was saying above, my partner, being upper middle class and with friends in the lower aristocracy, says Mummy isn’t his experience. All sorts of other names used, but not that.
Yeah, H&M escaped at the perfect time….after everything we’ve found out, life in the institution under william’s reign would’ve been the 9th circle of Hell for them.
Season 5 of The Crown was a bit boring and way too easy on Chuck and Cam, but there was at least one telling scene. When Diana tells the Queen that she has given an interview to Bashir, as a sort of heads up, and Liz frosts up and basically yells at her “we just want you to be happy!”
They have a heck of a way of showing it.
So Will basically is his father, the “Firm,” and even his grandmother, and Harry is Diana.
Another ‘the Crown’ parallel, is Diana in season 4 trying to get support/love from the Queen and Charles, but getting nowhere.
And then the surprise when she enjoys getting it from the public instead.
The Windsors are toxic. And by proxy, they fill the public space with their toxicity. I feel so sad for Brits who have mental health issues, listening to the media and the royal family laugh at and excoriate and deny the mental health issues of Harry and Meghan. How does that should to people in crises, people whose depression or other illnesses have them spiraling? It’s a public statement that mental health doesn’t matter. Or, the mental health of some people doesn’t matter.
Same with domestic violence. The “I love you” followed by physical abuse cycle is so insidious. And watch it get “celebrated” as William saying “I love you” somehow negates this physical aggression. How many abusers will use this as “proof” of their love?
What a dark, dark place the UK is, with a weak, ineffectual king, a venal and self-serving queen consort, and a toxic bully as an heir.
Taking that further, how would you feel if Prince William came to speak to your community organization about the “importance of mental health” and of men in particular seeking help? How could you not just walk out from the sheer hypocrisy? This will hurt his and Kate’s credibility long-term in one of the major areas they’ve tried to make “theirs”.
Reading this, this family sounds like it is full of broken people. Harry is trying to put himself back together. Brits may want a monarchy, but I’m not sure having one is worth the human cost to the family involved.
As someone who grew up with and still has deal with narcissistic family members, I feel empathy and sympathize with Harry. Just reading those excerpts about William ordering Harry to shave his beard, these assaults or attempted assaults. All of these abuses and attempt at control are classic narcissism. It must be horrible to have all of this abuse enabled by a powerful mouthpiece like the media. In many ways, the media and the Windsors did succeed in making Meghan (and Harry) into these polarizing figures. But Harry did the best thing he could for himself and his family which was to get out of there. And at this point just stay away from those toxic people.
Any man in his 30’s, well mid-twenties actually, should NOT be so invested in his brother’s marriage. I don’t know if this points to an unhealthy obsession or abuse or both, but William should have been told to back off by Charles much earlier.
And it says a lot about Charles having lived through it himself. He decided on Camilla and the Firm bended to his will. To see him lacking empathy in this situation is disgusting.
It’s kinda difficult for me to understand Prince William. Is he a gaslighter who wants to look good from all angles? Is he conflicted about it all? Is he genuinely a lying asshole? What’s up with him?!
All of the above
Maybe conflicted only about other people’ behavior when the result is he looks bad?
Some people have a real blind spot when it comes to looking at their own role in an evolving situation.
I am alarmed at Willy’s violent abuse of H: screaming, shouting, knocking down and lunging in front of family members who DON’T intervene but seem to accept it as Heir’s default rage setting, WTF?!
Plus all the abusive tactics of I love you and I am only trying to help you?! He is an abusive brother and BIL to M. Is he a better husband or father? What happens when they “provoke” him by having thoughts, needs, wishes of their own rather than being just a mirror for him as heir??
William should be far more worried about the books his children will eventually write than about what Harry has to say.
Is it only Harry that triggers these uncontrolled emotions in William? The answer is clearly no. He is known to rage at Charles; even Wicked Camilla was shocked to see it. It is said that his staff has to be very careful as to how they approach him because of his temper. Elton John had a story that he was working with both brothers when William angrily stomped out of the room over a disagreement, leaving Harry and Elton to work it out together. It is said that William shoved Diana after her Panorama interview. Also heard that William put some Eton kid’s head in a toilet when he said something that crossed the line. These are just the incidents that come to mind in two minutes.
But, somehow, he keeps his cool at home with Kate? We’ve already been told that they get into it and she gives as good as she gets. Kind of a sad way of acknowledging that it’s aimed at her, too. As for the kids, I hope he knows better than to go there.
I do worry for the children – maybe they are not targets yet but what happens when they grow up? Maybe this is just me projecting my own issues because my mother didn’t start emotionally abusing me and my sister until we became teenagers and it really amped up when we became adults (i.e. moved out, made out own decisions, etc.) and she couldn’t control us directly anymore (through she tried with gifts and money).
It’s easy to control young kids. I mean maybe not their behavior, but you control their activities, their school, their friends, what media they consume, etc. It’s a lot harder to control children as they become teenagers and gain more independence and may have different views from you on certain things.
I think those kids may be in for a rough ride if William is as bad as we’re hearing.
What’s really telling is that Charles apparently stood by watching while William grabs and shakes his brother and does nothing.
This is so weird and high drama. And Charles just standing there like, “Yes, yes, seen this before, business as usual with those two.” Really, no need for editing, just cut/paste into a screenplay.
So what I’m getting from all these stories is that William is deranged, Charles is useless, and Kate is a mean girl with no manners.
One thing that isn’t discussed nearly as much is the fact Charles is legitimately frightened of Billy.
Yes it’s his own fault but Charles is now in his 70s and trying to put a 40 year old with a temper in their place now is dangerous and futile at this point. I think the Queen was scared of William as well.
Charles has every right to be scared of Billy bc Billy could not just continue to leak how awful of a parent he is but knows the UK public prefer Billy and Kate over Charles and his mistress and the papers for the longest were pushing for Billy to take over his dad.
The papers were pushing that mess in part because of leaks. Nothing in the papers can be trusted. And the public doesn’t know what they want because so much of their information is based on tabloids and this f*cked up idea that seeing pictures of someone for their entire life is almost the same as knowing them.
The British public has been abused and gaslit by the media, too, whether or not they realize it.
Did anyone see W demoted himself from being “incandescent” with rage to “burning with rage” oooh 🙄
I feel like the psychological subtitles of “I love you” and “I just want you to be happy” from William are: “please stop talking”.
I’m just at a loss to the violence that Bill has shown Harry. He is an angry, hateful and immature man who cannot function unless everything is going HIS way. That his spineless father doesn’t call him higher is pathetic too. Because I bet if he pulled at those purse strings a little tighter that would bring Bill to attention. But I think Charles is so twisted that he likes that his sons are pit against each other.
Extraordinary that Harry choosing to attend his grandfather’s funeral he had to endure gaslighting and assault.
Harry will never be allowed to be his self around his brother who is clearly threatened by his transformation.
He will never be happy in that family. All the best memories were under his grandmother’s reign.
It is different, this new situation is one filled with fear and the need to control.
By not dealing with his own inadequacies, William is threatened and envious of Harry, their father’s problem is egoism.
Yes, Charles worked hard by royal standards but he failed to understand human nature.
When people are comfortable with the situation , they relax and try to enjoy the circumstances; just like the Waleses visit to Australia after William’s birth.
He, Charles was seen as stable so the crowds wanted to meet his new wife.
It is not a repudiation of him, just the nature of the beast.
It is about sales of adverts in the media. He now has a contract with said media.
Meghan’ s charisma seemed to ‘trigger’ Charles who unwisely entered into a contract with a selfish, fascist media establishment bent on destroying democracy, by refusing to understand that capitalism serves society, not the other way around.
Had he dealt with his resentment towards his first wife in this regard, Charles would have recognized this trigger.
It would have made quite a difference. William, on the other hand, seem to have a limited vocabulary and easily resorts to thuggish behaviour (an apt description from my high school teacher). He has no skills to examine nor deal with negative emotions. Until he gets help there should be limited interactions with him and his toxic behaviour.
He remains a clear and present danger to his brother,Harry and his family.
It’s the gaslighting for me. William says he loves Harry and that he wants him to be happy but continues to brief against him and sent Jason Knauf to testify against Meghan.
It appears H’s “role” in the family was that of punching bag. And we here at CB knew this. Even Z’s caveman husband feels comfortable laughing at and hitting H. The blackamoor broach episode – that horrible woman would not have worn it if it had not been well established it was ok to attack H and by extension his then fiance. Kkkate, Fiesta, etc treating H and his wife so disrespectfully in church again and again. The blame for this falls on C3 for never properly showing respect to his own son. This is a deeply troubled family, and I am so glad H is lifting the secrecy cover. No one should be treated like this, and no doubt many people who are being abused are watching.
As I mentioned above, this is a classic case of what is called “love bombing.”
See: https://www.solacewomensaid.org/love-bombing-affection-today-abuse-tomorrow
I wrote my comment below before reading yours, and this is spot-on narcissistic/borderline love-bombing.
I might be the only one who feels sorry for both William and Harry in this instance but wow this was heartbreaking to read. Yes, William has anger and control issues and clearly doesn’t understand why his brother doesn’t want to be around him. William really does see this as him being abandoned and forsaken by his brother and blames Meghan because it’s easier to do that than to realize he is the problem. And I think that is so sad. Harry doesn’t understand why his brother can’t understand that he wants to leave to protect his wife and child, who are now his number 1 priority. Just so incredibly tragic all around. And this all happening around their grandfather’s funeral when emotions are already heightened and just weeks after the Oprah interview. What a soap opera.
I mean I can feel sorry for both of them in a way I would for any human. As for William not understanding why his brother doesn’t want to be around him? William allowed Jason Knauf to give redacted emails in Meghan’s court case that would help the tabloids! The emails were doctored to make Meghan look bad. The judge had to tell Jason to show the full emails which then actually made Meghan look good and proved her case. William was a part of that. No way Jason did that on his own. So William not understanding why Harry wants nothing to do with him is disingenuous. And Harry is still saying she just wants accountability whereas I’d be like yeah nope.
William is a loose cannon and needs to do some serious work on himself. He’s an emotional disaster.
When a narcissist says “I love you” what it means is “You have to love me!”. They need hero-worshiping and to always be the centre of attention. When that doesn’t happen, or when someone walks away from them, this is the reaction they have — they act like petulant, spoiled brats who throw their toys and have a screaming melt-down. It’s happened to me a few times and I did what Harry did — I just walked away. But they’re scheming, manipulative little monsters and will find any way possible to keep harassing you, to keep interfering in your life, and they will find negative advocates to speak badly about you on their behalf, hence all the tabloid spew. William seriously needs therapy before he does something worse than push and shove.
First, I’m sorry this happened to you, and I’m so glad you walked away. And second, totally agree that William needs therapy, and lots of it.
If he doesn’t get the therapy he desperately needs, he’s going to repeat this behavior with his kids — if he hasn’t already. (Frankly, I don’t think he cares enough about Kate to try to control her — unless she does something that hurts his image.)
I grew up around narcissists with a difficult and complicated history involving sudden loss and change they were unable to control. Then they seek to control others completely no doubt to stop their inner child crying. I can see this with William and the loss of his mother. Added to this are reinforcements of his status and competence by the Royal machine. It should have been recognised and acted upon not normalised by press and family.
I’m so very sorry you went through that. Narcissists’ need for control is unparalleled. My SIL slapped me the day after my father drowned because I was sobbing too much. She told me to pull myself together because it wasn’t the time for it. I held my hand to my cheek and told her to fuck off and that if there were ever a time for uncontrollable sobbing, it was that very day. We don’t speak anymore. I truly don’t understand how some get through life.
OMG Mabs…that’s unconscionable. A narcissist ex-friend of mine told me to get my shit together and stop *whining* about my father’s death a month earlier because I was just trying to get attention. SMH…
Some narcissist rarely feel anything, so there is a lack of empathy and compassion.
They have some feeling and emotion during sex, crave ego boosting and attention.
Now I understand why Betty sent Will and Kate to Wales while Harry and Meghan were here for the Jubbly. Or why Harry and Meghan made their secret stop in Windsor to visit Betty while Will and Kate were out of town skiing. Harry is not taking any chances with having Meghan or his kids within Willy’s reach in private.
To Kaiser’s comments about the BRF being a death cult…I mean, that’s pretty much the shape of it. The heir waits around until the reigning monarch dies. In centuries past, the heir or people below the heir would kill because they didn’t want to wait for natural death. Advancement is based in death of the person ahead of you. It’s inherent in the institution. And it makes the institution inherently ridiculous in today’s world.
William, the future king, future head of state and head of nation, future head of the armed forces of the UK, is a rage monster. This is NOT a good look for the BRF and the UK. Harry’s accounts are disturbing. If William is like this with Harry, what is William like with Kate and the kids? I think that’s why the BM is focusing so hard on Harry’s words on unconscious bias (although that should be examined and Harry needs to do more) and his Afghanistan kills.
The number of people not getting that abusers like Willy just plain lie is… something.
Anyway, here is a really good short animated video that I think is germane to what Harry went through: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zbKKoRyHyA
So many internet receipts out there where we can see the makings of the jealous Bully from an early age. It seems like nothing has changed.