There were low-key whispers in aristo circles about Prince William and Rose Hanbury for months before the infamous “Rural Rivals” story appeared in the Sun in the last week of March 2019. It was said that the then-Duchess of Cambridge was trying to “phase out” the powerful Marchioness of Cholmondeley (Rose) over some unknown beef. A sprinkling of breadcrumbs and British euphemisms meant people quickly got the gist of the beef: Kate was mad that Rose was allegedly banging William, and Kate was trying to Mean Girl the marchioness, only the Turnip Toffs were taking Rose’s side. Soon enough – like, within a day or two – William basically contacted Richard Kay at the Daily Mail and Kay wrote a completely bonkers piece which was clearly based on William’s ass-covering story. William spent the next few months getting his lawyers to send out threats to any British outlet trying to get to the bottom of the story.
That’s the timeline of stories and events as they happened in the media, from late March through April 2019. During that same time, there was wall-to-wall abuse and character assassination of the Duchess of Sussex. It’s long believed that William engaged in an explicit quid pro quo with the media: bury the Rose story and I’ll give you stories about Meghan. This curious passage appears in Prince Harry’s Spare:
Towards the end of April 2019, days before Meg was due to give birth, Willy rang. I took the call in our new garden.
Something had happened between him and Pa and Camilla. I couldn’t get the whole story, he was talking too fast, and was way too upset. He was seething actually. I gathered that Pa and Camilla’s people had planted a story or stories about him and Kate, and the kids, and he wasn’t going to take it anymore. Give Pa and Camilla an inch, he said, they take a mile.
They’ve done this to me for the last time.
I got it. They’d done the same to me and Meg as well.
But it wasn’t them, technically, it was the most gung-ho member of Pa’s comms team, a true believer who’d devised and launched a new campaign of getting good press for Pa and Camilla at the expense of bad press for us. For some time this person had been peddling unflattering stories, fake stories, about the Heir and Spare, to all the papers.
I suspected that this person had been the lone source for stories about a hunting trip I’d made to Germany in 2017, stories that made me out to be some fat-bottomed seventeenth-century baron who craved blood and trophies, when in reality I was working with German farmers to cull wild boar and save their crops. I believed the story had been offered as a straight swap, in exchange for greater access to Pa, and also as a reward for the suppression of stories about Camilla’s son, who’d been gadding around London, generating tawdry rumors. I was displeased about being used like this, and livid about it being done to Meg, but I had to admit it was happening much more often lately to Willy. And he was justifiably incandescent.
He’d already confronted Pa once about this woman, face-to-face. I’d gone along for moral support. The scene took place at Clarence House, in Pa’s study… Willy put it to Pa: How can you be letting a stranger do this to your sons?
Pa instantly got upset. He began shouting that Willy was paranoid. We both were. Just because we were getting bad press, and he was getting good, that didn’t mean his staff was behind it. But we had proof. Reporters, inside actual newsrooms, assuring us that this woman was selling us out. Pa refused to listen. His response was churlish, pathetic. Granny has her person, why can’t I have mine? By Granny’s person he meant Angela. Among the many services she performed for Granny, she was said to be skilled at planting stories.
What a rubbish comparison, Willy said. Why would anyone in their right mind, let alone a grown man, want their own Angela? But Pa just kept saying it. Granny had her person, Granny had her person. High time he had a person too.
[From Spare, by Prince Harry]
After that, Harry tried to compare what William was going through with how the media was coming after Meghan. That’s when, Harry writes, “Willy snapped: I’ve got different issues with you two! In a blink he shifted all his rage onto me.” Harry doesn’t repeat what William was raging about, but he makes it clear that William was screaming his head off over the phone. William was so loud that Meghan came outside to hear what all the racket was and she overheard some of what William was screaming about. She walked back inside the house, crying.
Anyway… yeah… if William’s original rage was about people in Charles and Camilla’s selling him out, I wouldn’t be surprised if Clarence House was behind some of the stories in that time period. Harry is repeating the conversations he had, of course, and he’s not doing investigative journalism, after all. I always believed that the Rural Rivals story came from Norfolk, not Clarence House. I believe that Rose and William were indiscreet, and/or Kate was indiscreet when she tried to phase out Rose.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
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- 154066, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall. Kings Lynn, United Kingdom – Wednesday June 22, 2016. UK, FRANCE, AUS, NZ, CHINA, HONGKONG, TAIWAN, SPAIN & ITALY OUT Photograph: © WPA Pool / i-Images, PacificCoastNews. Los Angeles Office (PCN): +1 310.822.0419 UK Office (Photoshot): +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 sales@pacificcoastnews.com FEE MUST BE AGREED PRIOR TO USAGE,Image: 532468851, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS, DIRECT SALES ONLY UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE IN CAPTION – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: i-Images, PacificCoastNews / Avalon
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- KING’S LYNN, ENGLAND – JUNE 22: HRH Prince William and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall on June 22, 2016 in King’s Lynn, England.
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- KING’S LYNN, ENGLAND – JUNE 22: HRH Prince William and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall on June 22, 2016 in King’s Lynn, England.
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- KING’S LYNN, ENGLAND – JUNE 22: HRH Prince William and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall on June 22, 2016 in King’s Lynn, England.
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- KING’S LYNN, ENGLAND – JUNE 22: HRH Prince William and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall on June 22, 2016 in King’s Lynn, England.
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- KING’S LYNN, ENGLAND – JUNE 22: HRH Prince William and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge are greeted by Rose Cholmondeley, the Marchioness of Cholmondeley as they attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall on June 22, 2016 in King’s Lynn, England.
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- KING’S LYNN, ENGLAND – JUNE 22: HRH Prince William and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge are greeted by David Cholmondeley, Marquess of Cholmondeley and Rose Cholmondeley, the Marchioness of Cholmondeley as they attend a gala dinner in support of East Anglia’s Children’s Hospices’ nook appeal at Houghton Hall on June 22, 2016 in King’s Lynn, England.
What WASN’T he upset about?? He should do the environment a favor and switch from incandescent raging to LED raging.
K, lolololol. He should! And I agree, he is truly ALWAYS mad! I think he truly hates being the heir. He feels trapped and is jealous that Harry could escape.
You win the internets!
Everything is coming up Roses! I am sure Baldimort was screaming about his alleged extra curricular activities.
That’s so perfect. LED bellend.
He seems upset 24/7. Is it because he’s stuck in the marriage? Can he get out? What’s the protocol?
Yup, then he could give himself the earthshit prize as well!
Wow, what horrible, garbage people. Unbelievable.
All the more reason to ABOLISH THE MONARCHY!
What a toxic family/institution. I understand H&M are going to do what’s right for their family, but I can’t see how anything is going to be different if they returned.
Oh man, does Harry really use the word “incandescent” to describe William? If so, nothing will convince me that he isn’t a Celebitchy reader!
Harry did say, in his interview with Stephen Colbert, that he’d become somewhat obsessed with reading things about himself and Meghan. He also said he didn’t read as much anymore. At least, if he had been reading Celebitchy, he’d know how many supporters he and Meghan have here! And, just in case he still takes the occasional peek, hi Harry!
👋 Hi Harry and Meghan!!
Keep fighting the good fight, Harry and Meghan!
I highlighted incandescent on my Kindle because I was laughing so hard when I read that paragraph. I love CB and hope they are reading.
Exactly my thoughts when I read that part. I think H&M are Celebitches.
S’up, Harry and Meghan!!! 🙂
H & M definitely are aware of how much support they have – they know about the Squad for sure – haven’t they even alluded to it? I thought around the time they decamped to Vancouver, they mentioned the support (from the Squad) giving them the strength to do it? I am pretty sure that support meant the world to them at that time when they were so distraught and bullied. I think the Squad can be proud of that! (I’m a supporter not a Squaddie)
Yes, they are 💯 aware of the Squad and even phoned a few to thank them for their fundraising efforts.
Of course they know about the Squad, when SS raised over $130 thousand for Camfed, the Sussexes matched the funds.
I’m sure their Charities make them aware of the funds, that SS raises for their Charities, in their name.
William just sounds unhinged and out of control.
It’s all very Game of Thrones in its plotting and spying and betrayal. Can you imagine how trapped Meghan felt as it all became clear? Harry was nothing short of heroic when he got them all the hell out of there.
That first picture of all three of them is so weird, It tells a whole story.
Ah yes, there’s that famous Windsor resilience.
Lol I don’t really like William but had to laugh at his “Why would anyone in their right mind, let alone a grown man, want their own Angela?”
That really is a great line!
Does anyone know the identity of the new Angela?
He’s definitely talking about Angela Kelly
@MissM, I meant who does Charles have working in the Angela Kelly role? Who is his story planting person?
A former Dailyfail editor.
Camilla. 😏
That line made me laugh too.
The Norfolk toffs have lots of friends in high places within the BM so once Khate started going after Rose, the gloves came off. That was one of the stupidest moves she ever tried to make. First, even though she’s a Duchess and was FFQC, they looked down their aristocratic noses at her as a middle class parvenu and blatant social climber. Second, there’s a hierarchy amongst the aristos – they will close ranks like a herd of buffalo against anyone who tries to expose or denigrate a member of the exclusive club. Well done Khate…too bad it didn’t save your sham marriage.
@jaded – this is 💯. Totally agree.
Very sly of Harry to sneak in the Rose rumors without really saying it’s the Rose rumors. Just give the Who–William What–going ballistic over a leaked story about him and Kate (Harry threw the kids in there for deflection) When– Spring 2019. I’m assuming Burger King was angry all the time, and that not every incidence of anger was included in Spare, but it’s telling that this one was.
That’s Burger King and his brother, In-and-Out 🤣 🤣 🤣
This is a case of all parties being trash and no one deserving sympathy. The toffs are awful, Will is awful, and Kate is awful. After constantly treating Meghan like garbage and clearly thinking that she was finally accepted, this must’ve been a nasty (and well deserved) wake up call for Kate.
I wonder if Kate went so hard after Rose because she saw her as a real threat/prime replacement candidate. Even for someone as Mean Girl as her, it was one un-smart play.
Another CBer commented recently regarding weird wording in an article about Rose’s sister, Marina and her ‘royal baby’ (sorry, I want to give credit and cannot remember who!).
I went down a rabbit hole after that and am now inclined to believe Wails’ affair was with the other Hanbury sister – Rose was providing the cover to enable it.
that’s such a great tinfoil tiara theory! makes me take a second look at articles like this one from hello magazine as possible speculation about who might have royal cuckoos in the nest:
https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/gallery/2018041947928/royal-baby-potential-playmates/3/
here’s the link to the article I think you’re referencing by the way… the explanation given for “royal baby” language is that the lambtons are related to some lady who had an affair with abdicator edward before he met wallis?
https://www.babygaga.com/royal-family-has-new-baby-son-to-countess-of-durham/
I cannot get used to Charles going by “Pa” it’s far too quaint. Willy feels accurate as a nickname given all meanings for the word.
Every time Harry refers to Charles as “Pa” the theme from The Waltons plays in my head. This bunch sure ain’t the Waltons.
I’m on page 25 or something and “Pa” has called Harry “darling boy” about 3 times already and it’s irrigating me. Idk if it’s an American thing but I call my son sweet boy or baby boy (he hates that) or best boy. I’ve never called him “darling boy,” sounds too fancy for me.
Buckle in cuz Pa calls him darling boy throughout and till the v end. Regardless of whatever shit thing Charles is actually doing to Harry, he simultaneously calls him darling boy.
I will say the audiobook is better in this regard — somehow hearing it in a posh British accent makes it feel more expected.
What about H being called “darling boy”? That feels like a huge misnomer!
My son gave me the book for Xmas (much to his sanguine) so I wrote back “thanks darling boy” as per KC. My son likes to kid me that he’s on KC’s side just to irritate me, so therefore the “darling boy” endearment.
Little Palace on the Prairie
🤣 🤣 🤣
@CC, you’ve killed me dead with this comment
#TeamPaIngalls all the way
LOL
@Lorelei I read „pain“galls at first 😅
That ‘incandescent’ throw in, skskssksk
Yes, I agree with Kaiser. I too always thought the story came from Norfolk and not Clarence House. What happened later solidified it. It sounded like the Turnip Toffs were not too pleased with Kate’s plan to x out Rose and the Toffs made it public. When the Tatler article came out, I think Che CEO Kingmaker Kate realized it too. She got sold out by the Toffs who wanted her back in her place.
But now I wonder who planted the “Meghan made Kate cry” story. I always thought it was Carole (and I still think she used and continued to push the narrative for Kate’s benefit) but now I think it was very much Camilla. It’s just the kind of sneaky story she would plant because it directly benefits Kate but she too benefited from the bad press of Meghan.
Doesn’t Camilla have a niece or relative working at Tatler?
Both of her children have written regularly for Tatler: Tom PB on food and Laura Lopes on cars.
Harry pretty much says it was Camilla in the book.
“William’s ass-covering story” tee-hee
But yeah, I’ve been the emotional punching bag for a man (my father) who was angry at whatever else that day. Traffic, for instance. It’s traumatic.
There are so MANY parts of this memoir that I wound up highlighting. I don’t have anyone in my life to discuss these things with except my parents + sibling, and telling them the stuff that Harry wrote about has been a real freaking trip, lemme tell you. I had to repeat the part about Charles whining that “Granny has her person who plants stories in the press, so why can’t I have my own person who does the same???” a few times, bc my parents couldn’t wrap their head around how the press leaking by the royals actually worked. It took them a moment to figure out that the Queen was using her seamstress/assistant to plant and leak stories to the press on her behalf, bc that simply doesn’t square with who they imagine the Queen to be.
The argument itself is unintentionally kind of hilarious, ngl. William whirling around and yelling, “I have a different problem with you!” at Harry–it made me wince a little. I love my family, I’d do anything for them, and they are nowhere near as toxic as this crowd. But I’ve had this variety of argument with them, where I’ve been upset with the person who’s technically still on “my side”, and the fact that this bit was weirdly relatable was the hilarious part for me.
@A, are your conversations with your family constructive? Does it feel like talking about the book will help you all in the long run? Sorry if I’m being too nosey.
I don’t know. Most of the Toff crowd’s parents count on Camilla as a friend. I imagine if anyone’s fingerprints are all over it, it would be Camilla. I could see her being giddy over a story like that as it would highlight Willy’s hypocrisy.
Yeah, didn’t Tom Sykes say that he first heard about Will and Rose from an earl’s daughter at a dinner? I still think someone among the Toffs started it, but Camilla probably jumped all over this with her own briefing too.
Tom Sykes did say that. And there was even someone else who also claimed that the rumour was spread at a society dinner. So i think there is some credibility to that. Funny though. Reading spare, i thought: ‘okay the cheating romours are just that because william and kate seem very much like a team’ and then i got to this part.
If Clarence house was behind the leaking of that story then it might actually be true.
I could totally see earl’s daughter telling mummy who told Cams, and Cams says “it would be a shame if that got out.” Insert smirk.
Cut to dinner where it is shared by earl’s daughter and goes flying to tabloids.
That’s a good point. It could also be that word first came from them and then she added fuel/rumours via her red phone to her contacts to feed it. I can see someone from the DM calling her to check in on what they’d heard and she saw an opportunity.
I can see Camilla hearing about the affair through the grapevine like that, i’m not sure I can see her hearing about the whole phasing out, Kate trying to cut out Rose Hanbury etc. That seems like very specific gossip that had to come from someone in that specific circle (not a parent etc). But I think its very likely I am underestimating how much these people gossip, LOL.
The Sun had the story first, right? Dan Wootton? I feel like it went Wootton – Eden- Kay. So maybe she (Camilla) did run to one of her buddies at the Sun with this.
Now that you say that, what better way to use this affair to cut both W and K than to accuse her of trying to oust his lover from their group.
That seems right up Camilla’s alley. She’s really good at pushing misogynistic attacks on other women, like Diana was “paranoid and crazy”, Kate is jealous and insecure.
Obviously I’m not following the chain of where it came from, so this could be way off base, but I’m just saying she used the same rock to get rid of two rivals for herself and Chuck, which is kind of her thing.
I could absolutely see Camilla reacting to Kate trying to “phase out” Rose – she would know better than anyone how terribly middle class it is to try to cut out your husband’s mistress! She of all people would be eager to put Kate back in her place and use the might of the aristocracy to do it.
I imagine some of the criticisms of the Middletons (the paved driveway, lol) we heard at that time are probably things Camilla and her set gossip about, comparing their taste (threadbare antiques, dog hair) with the nouveau riche hotel aesthetic of Kate’s family.
The turnip toffs in the Tatler article would have gotten the okay to speak from someone – it wasn’t William (and the article was unflattering to him as well, iirc). Most of us assumed it was Rose herself, but why not Camilla? I think we can assume the two have at least met before, given Rose’s position, and it seems like the affair was an open secret, especially if William was getting his aristo friends to cover for him. Camilla and Charles did the sam. Even if Camilla didn’t know all the ins and outs of the affair, she doesn’t necessarily need to – she could have simply let it be known that it was open season on Kate.
@Jay oooh that’s a really good point. IF camilla did hear about the attempted phasing-out (that’s the part that I”m not sure about, would she have heard about it? But its really becoming apparently these people do nothing but gossip lol so she probably did hear in a “how embarrassing for your DIL darling, she did try” kind of way) – wouldn’t that just be something she would roll her eyes at? “oh poor thing, she’s even more naive than Diana, she really has no idea how these things work, does she. Trying to cut out the mistress, tsk tsk. Just isn’t done. Besides, doesn’t she know that I was once The Mistress and am now The Wife?” And then uses the situation to sort of put Kate in her place on behalf of all mistresses everywhere.
I kind of feel like Camilla is just the God of Chaos or something. I think the mistake we’ve been making over the past few years is assuming that every smear, every leak, has to directly benefit the person who leaked it and we’ve been using that to figure out who is leaking what. But its becoming very clear that Camilla likes to leak and plant stories just because she can – yes to make herself look better, but also to embarrass someone (here, Kate and William), to cause tension, to just stir things up and then she sits back and sees what happens.
I think another thing to understand about Camilla is that she’s an insufferable snob and more elitist than William or Harry (obviously) or Charles every were. Apparently (according to Christopher Andersen’s biography on Charles anyway) Charles like Kate very much from the start. Camilla was against her from the start because she was very classist and she made disparaging comments about the Middleton’s all the time. She thought that William and Harry should marry aristocracy from Europe or at least aristocratic girls from England and was in Charles ear all the time about it but he seemed to ignore her on it and he liked that Kate wasn’t “neurotic” apparently. I absolutely believe that she of all people would have delighted at any stories about infighting between Kate and the Turnip Toffs and her not fitting in that set. Does anyone remember Harry and Meghan’s wedding where she was openly guffawing and making side comments about the preacher way more than anyone else the camera turned on – she tried to turn and say something to Kate about it and Kate kind of just side eyed her as if to say “shut up.”. Shes Machiavellian.
Anyone got any links to what Camilla’s son was doing?
Steph:
Wikipedia only has him beginning to date a journalist (which was a year after his divorce). The journalist later died from cancer. This doesn’t seem noteworthy or serious enough for Camilla to have to leak something to cover this up.
I think he’s been rumored to do drugs in the past, so probably something along those lines. There MIGHT have been some shadiness around his work too, though I think that was after 2019. Or maybe I’m confusing him with her nephew…
Thanks beach dreams
He’s written several books, too. Weird no one accuses him of ruining the monarchy. And dealt drugs, at least according to his friends, when younger.
I can’t remember the details but there was some sort of financial/government skullduggery related to either Camilla’s son or nephew.
Camilla’s nephew is a honcho for the Tories. Enough said?
Tom Parker-Bowles has long been rumoured to deal drugs and also that he is supported by Charles.
April 2019….I can’t think of what else William could have been raging about besides the Rose story. So if I’m following this passage correctly, William is raging bc he thinks Camilla’s comms person leaked a story about him and Kate and the kids? Or just Kate and the kids? Then he starts ranting at H&M as well?
Okay I went back to look at the CB stories from that time, LOL. the other big things that seemed to have leaked were the story about “exiling the Sussexes” and the story about William doing zumba with the school mums after the school run. And loads of stories about William covering up the affair story, the media blackout, etc. Maybe the media blackout leaks came from Camilla? Maybe she was ticked -her affair was front page news, but William’s got covered up, so she’s going to expose that? IDK.
My guess is he was ranting at Harry about the birth and how it was going to be “private” and all of that – that meant he didn’t have anything to leak and he probably wanted something from Harry he could use to leak to the tabloids to shut down other stories. So we can see what a nasty cycle it was – Camilla leaks something about William; he needs something to leak in return to get the focus off him, so he goes to HArry, but he can’t get anything from Harry, so he starts raging.
@Becks I can see Camilla running to the press with the Rose rumors particularly because she has to be eager for William’s shine to fade. He continues to be the “faithful Prince of Wales” when it’s not true. Also, William was angry because he gave C+C an inch… what could that mean? Did he ask them for advice on how to have three people in a marriage? Did he come for advice on how to handle Kate’s anger? Sounds like William confided in them and got burned.
Maybe he went to Charles to discuss the possibility of a divorce, Charles talks to Camilla, Camilla calls up a friend in Norfolk who is all too willing to tell her all the gossip. Camilla (and her “person”) know they can’t just say that William is having an affair so we have the nonsense about Kate freezing out Rose like a trail of breadcrumbs so people can put two and two together (like we did on here.)
It makes sense based on your point – maybe Camilla really does want William’s star to fade. If she knows he’s having affairs, maybe she’s ticked that she and Charles are still blamed for their affair while William is pegging his way through the Turnip Toffs.
I’m also kind of getting the impression that Camilla just likes to gossip with anyone, anywhere. She’ll gossip with the aristos, she’ll gossip with her staff, and she’ll gossip with tabloid reporters.
I can see Camilla leaking it simply bc she doesn’t seem to like Pegs. Wasn’t sure one of the first to talk about his raging and how terrible he treats his father?
@Harper, I haven’t read the book but perhaps the inch he mentioned was his close cooperation with C+C in smearing Meghan.. for the first time, they actually shared a goal and worked together to achieve it… he probably felt safe that in view of their common purpose, his father and
C would forget to leak for him…. didn’t they have a dinner together where the crying story was discussed during the successful Australian tour for H and M? I believe it was the beginning of their joining forces.. and collaboration
Yeah, the kids part is throwing me off b/c they definitely weren’t included in all those Rose stories, and I don’t think there was much of anything about them in general at the time. But I don’t see what other Cambridge story it could’ve been because this was THE story for months.
Out of those choices, I’d say it was the Zumba story that he was raging about, in that it involves the kids school. It is the silliest of the stories as well, although another facet of the wandering Willy narrative.
Maybe he asked C&C for advice on dealing with the press exposing your affair. I haven’t gotten far enough in the book to even guess wtf he was mad at H&M for, other than being in love and harder to control than expected.
Like, it would’ve been a month or two after the shoving Harry incident, and not a word of that had gotten out. What a miserable prick.
@Becks1 Thank you for your service… CB Archivist extraordinaire! ♥️
Charles is so petty and not paternal in any way. And William has taken on his worst traits. I’d feel bad for him if he weren’t a grown man who’s responsible for his own actions at this age. He also doesn’t have the sense to realize Meghan and Harry could’ve been his best allies. Too self-important. Too incandescent.
What did William yell about to Harry? It was apparently bad enough that it made Meghan cry, just from overhearing it.
When a man like Willy rages, it’s frightening and very upsetting. Crying when being subjected to it is pretty normal, no matter what they’re screaming about.
That comment about suppressing stories on Camilla’s son is very interesting. I wonder what that’s about?
If I remember gossip correctly from back then, I think Tom had a serious cocaine problem.
Charles realllllllly comes off badly in “Spare.” “Granny has her person, why can’t I have mine?” What a PATHETIC excuse for a father — for a human being.
And of course Willy then would direct his rage at Harry, completely indifferent to the fact that Meghan was about to give birth — or perhaps further enraged by that fact.
I despise them. And I’m glad as hell that Harry is letting the world know how loathsome they are. And that Meghan and Harry are happily ensconced in California.
Well, Willy’s got “his person” now in that slimy POS Dan Wootton, so
@quitecontrary: AMEN to your last paragraph. These “people”…do not act like human beings. I can’t say what I really want to, because I’ll be banned, but I am so grateful that H&M are out of that place. That the people who live there are suffering, and no one seems to care enough to help their own citizens? So so sad for the people who have to live there in the UK. 💔
I know I’ll get pilloried for this, but I do have a modicum of sympathy (maybe more like pity) for William. Harry’s story really lays bare how absolutely rotten Charles is as a father, and it’s clear how that has warped William (and Harry, god bless, was able to escape that warping). There are ton of things about William that are horrible, but on this particular issue I feel bad for him. Having to grow up with an emotionally constipated father who uses you as an object of transaction, some kind of pawn to be moved around to suit his needs, is going to f**k you up. And you are financially and professionally trapped in that hierarchy/abusive system. William never had a chance, and it’s truly miraculous that Harry made it out alive.
William is a grown up. However bad Charles is as a father, William made his choices. I give him no free passes. William did have a chance, he could have dealt with his anger issues through therapy. He behaved horribly to his brother. Charles did not ‘make him” hit his brother.
A lot of it just seems like a v lonely existence. In the same way that Harry hoped for Camilla to be happy, it’d be great if William was happy too so that he could be less dangerous and not hurt others.
I pity Willy. I also despise him. He had someone who cared about him — his brother could have helped him, if Willy had opened his heart a crack. But Willy chose pride and fear instead.
@Emily_C, I’m with you— I both pity and despise him at the same time
@EmilyC and Lorelei: I feel the same.
I’m almost finished with the book and I agree. I was surprised at the recounting of the “Work-Shy Wills” phase and how unfair Harry thought that was. I didn’t know they couldn’t just decide to work more or less but that Charles not only controlled the money but also their time. I don’t like William any more because of it but my god, the absolute beating he took (and is still taking) about that. I’m sure people will just decide that this is wrong and W&K could work as much as they like but it’s right there, in black and white. From someone who knows. I also had a small moment of respect for William when Harry mentioned that he had refused, at times, to play the game and trot his wife out like a prized horse. Guess he tried.
ETA: Btw, when I say I cackled at the gossipy mention of Camilla’s son …. good for you, Harry. To think that they threw William or Harry under the bus for her son is wild.
I did kinda laugh when Harry said that SOME people but not WIlls would pad their engagements with shallow stuff. I suspect that has changed now.
But it’s a good point that if they are literally limited in what they can do….
I’m not at that part yet but Willia
Typically does not pad his engagements the way Kate does. I think he’s gotten worse over the last few years about it bc of COVID, but usually if he lists a phone call it will actually be with the board of earthshot or the duchy of Cornwall etc. there are some “phone calls with jason Knauf” but it’s nothing like what Kate does.
I have a modicum of sympathy. But William was pampered, protected, aided and abetted. And ultimately he is choosing to side with the woman who made his mother’s life hell, in ways that aren’t even necessary.
Charles himself was a neglected and abused little boy who had to meet his emotional needs with a teddy bear and was unsupported when he was bullied at boarding school. That doesn’t excuse his choices as an adult but I do pity him. He was badly damaged by his parents and then he went on to badly damage his own children. I really hope the cycle is disrupted for the current kids.
Charles though was overindulged by his grandmother instilling in him how he was special and enabled Charles feeling he could do no wrong. She even lent birkhal as a safe house to c and c while they were both married to others. Charles also caused a lot of damage in his first marriage.
I pity all of them in a way. It sounds like a horrendous family and a horrendous existence. I think that’s why Harry seems to understand Camilla to a certain degree – she was trying to survive in that horrendous environment. I think it was bad before the press really got involved in the family dynamics, but I think its so toxic now that I can’t imagine how anyone could come out of that being well adjusted etc.
But, pitying them is not the same as excusing them obviously. At a certain point they all could have made the changes Harry made.
William (and Kate) just make me sad because you can see how their personalities got warped and they went over to the Dark Side.
But they both anger me (especially William) because instead of taking a stand, defending Harry and Meghan, and going against the press they went the easy route.
William and Kate are 40 years old (Kate now 41). They are responsible for their choices and actions. They could have chosen to embrace Harry and Meghan, become a team against Charles, and do good work in the world. They choose instead to continually abuse Harry and Meghan, in person and in the press. W&K make their choices and get no sympathy from me.
Granny has her person so I can have mine too/!. My god, Diana was always right about Charles…He is little more than a wicked spineless man-child. She would have been so disappointed that William did not fair any better. My GAWD! Harry can not see what’s in-front of him though. It would finish him but no-one else has betrayed him more that these two. They always have and because he does not see it as it is so obvious they have always thought he was just too “stupid” or “thick”. Much like that memory loss re his mother not recognising this betrayal is a means of survival.
“His response was churlish, pathetic. Granny has her person, why can’t I have mine? By Granny’s person he meant Angela. Among the many services she performed for Granny, she was said to be skilled at planting stories.”
^^ And this is exactly why Chuckles changed the locks on Angela Kelly.
I am going to guess that AK47 had been planting stories on C for years and he was just waiting for the day.
It’s interesting also that William called Harry to complain about something he had been consistently doing to H&M at a tine when Meghan was not in the best place mentally and not short after he had physically assaulted him…. the lack of empathy is insane.
I was just about to comment about the timeline here. The assault happened before this?! And Harry still showed up for him to give him moral support?!
Please correct me if I’m wrong about the timeline. This would have occurred a few weeks after he assaulted him bc that happened during Meg’s shower and this was a few days before the birth?
The level of forgiveness he’s able to give is so crazy to me. It’s like he was so used to Pegs violence he didn’t really think anything of it.
@Steph yes I think you’re wrong as I’m reading this excerpt (I’m not there in the book yet.) William called up Harry in April 2019 about the leaking, but the moral support/confronting Camilla and Charles meeting happened before that. Harry is saying that they already had one meeting about this and it was still going on and William was still ticked about it.
From this, he’s not clear when the moral support/confrontation meeting happened.
I don’t know if it was so much forgiveness at that point, as it was their interests being aligned. That, and the fact that Harry is constantly trying to make things work with Willy. From personal experience, I know that the period of trying to make things work can go on way too long before realizing it will never work.
Ok this is very interesting because we had all heard that Angela was a nasty piece of work, and at least I was under the impression that Angela was actually likely using the queen. But the way Harry phrases this is interesting : ” among the many services she performed for Granny, she was said to be skilled at planting stories.”. This seems to suggest a conspiratory relationship rather than one where the queen was being taken advantage of – is he actually suggesting that Queen Elizabeth intentionally used Angela Kelly to plant stories for her? Or am I reading that wrong? I have to admit, I had always assumed that Queen Elizabeth, especially in her older years, simply stuck her head in the sand about what types of maneuvers her courtiers used. I had never even considered that she might personally be using her dresser to thwart her courtiers and plant stories for her !!?!!!
Yes. Harry was willing, as usual to support Will, but that support didn’t go both ways.
I don’t have any sympathy for William he knew what it felt like when people are conspiring against him and leaking stories . Instead of doing what Harry did which was not to do the same thing to anyone in family William choose to harm the only person in his life who truly care about him . He and his evil wife choose to go all in a years smeared campaign against Meghan while she was pregnant with Archie he didn’t care . I don’t know how some one can called a person they assault then turn around call them to complain about bad press then start screaming at that persons because they said they are going to same things you are complaining about . There is something seriously wrong with William instead of getting help for his issues he rather blame everything on Meghan and not take responsibility for his own actions.
“But Pa just kept saying it. Granny had her person, Granny had her person. High time he had a person too.”
Fer cryin’ out loud. One sees where William gets this mess from. And for people who have every-fucking-thing, these are the most dissatisfied bunch of babies ever.
@Beach, yeah, I was thinking it might be about her nephew Ben Eliot. But the stories about his fundraising shadiness didn’t come about until later (or at least that I heard). He is, or was, a skeezy Tory hack in bed with Russian oligarchs.
Edit:. Sorry, this comment was in reply to one by @Beach Dreams above questioning who the family member was the Camilla was trying to protect.
Gosh so glad Harry and Meghan noped out of there, he really did save his family from psychological warfare. I finished reading the book last night so I read the whole Harry and Meghan part last night and I LOLed when I saw the word “incandescent” because I knew Harry used it on purpose to describe William. Charles does not come across well in a lot of the book, people seem to think William is the one who gets criticized the most but I think Charles comes across equally bad. I think Harry tries to soften the blow by pointing out how Charles had such a lonely childhood and was starved for affection from his parents. When you think about it, Charles is basically a huge nerd who loves his classical music, gardening/the great outdoors/environment, literature etc. It makes him seem almost charming and had he grown up in any other family, he would be that sophisticated gentleman grandpa. But due to the dysfunction of the royal family, he is just as manipulative and jealous as the rest of them.
I have to wonder about the Queen. She had to be aware of all the planting of stories and leaking to the press, even before she got super old. Not once does Harry blame his grandmother for that, he blames her aides and her staff. Was she truly in a bubble of “I’m above it all and I have no idea ” or was she aware of what her staff was doing? The pact with the media started under her reign so she’s to blame for the intergenerational trauma of it all.
Charles is an idiot. He’s an eco-fascist who thinks homeopathy is great and has been good friends with some of the worst sexual abusers in history. He likes to think he’s a smart, cultured intellectual. He is not, at all.
Queen Elizabeth’s grandfather was pretty clearly abusive. Her father King George was obviously damaged by that abuse. I don’t know if he or the queen mother were abusive but it’s unquestionable that they were very dysfunctional. The family dynamic has been toxic as far back as there are written records.
By all accounts, QEII’s immediate family seemed close and relatively loving, but I do think the Queen Mother probably created a dysfunctional environment for her daughters. The one story I always remember about her is her refusal to evacuate Elizabeth and Margaret during the Blitz, even after Buckingham Palace took some hits. People often try to spin that as admirable, but if you think about it for more than about 2 seconds, you realize that it’s deeply f–ked up. Insisting that her children remain with her, when the Germans made a point of targeting royal residences and Hitler himself supposedly considered her “the most dangerous woman in Europe”, was a prime example of the RF’s toxic stoicism.
And yeah, the dynamic definitely goes back quite a ways. Just look at Queen Victoria’s relationships with her children, for example (there was an excellent 2-part documentary on that a few years ago. I can’t remember the exact title, but it can probably be easily found by Googling).
Oh really – please do tell, it’s clear there was a lot of dysfunction there and that the queen mother was a very complicated character, in what way was King George’s father clearly abusive, I’m curious. Do you have any particular books you recommend, particularly on the queen mother? I’ve heard the lady Colin Campbell’s book on the queen mother is probably full of a lot of lies, but I also don’t want to read a hagiography of her. Something in between the two I suppose that will acknowledge some of the dysfunction present without going down rabbit holes about unproven conspiracies etc.
Shawcross wrote the queen mother’s authorized biography. This is the one to read. Campbell just gossips. Imo. She recycles stories imo from kitty Kelly book the r o y a l s.
I think that Charles would probably have flourished in a family free of the extreme dysfunctions that has own family had and the homophobia of his own father who always seemed to resent Charles because he wasn’t a man’s man. The really messed up thing of it all is that he left him prey to groomers like Lord Mountbatten to look up to as a father figure, and to fend for himself at Gordonstoun where I’m sorry but Philip must have known what happened to boys like Charles there. It’s actually heartbreaking to think of what he likely endured at Gordonstoun. I also do wonder if Charles might possibly be neurodivergent.
” when in reality I was working with German farmers to cull wild boar and save their crops”.
Look, he gladly went to shoot boar. He likes hunting. He shouldn’t pretend he doesn’t.
If, say, rabbits were overrunning my field and needed culling, I would call exterminators, because I could not bare killing them myself. They needed to kill animals and they thought “let’s call Harry, he’ll totally be up for this” and he was.
What?
LOL. My thoughts exactly.
It’s not morally wrong to be okay with killing animals in this kind of circumstance. (Or for food, for instance.) And in this case, Harry used the correct word: Culling. I’m with ChillinginDC here: What?
By the way, wild boar are incredibly dangerous.
Tell me you know nothing about farming without telling me you know nothing about farming.
Wild boar are a dangerous, invasive species. They need are detrimental to eco systems. And you can’t just call in an exterminator to take them out, you need to do it yourself. Believe it or not, sometimes killing animals is a part of environmentalism.
Feral hogs are a problem in parts of the US, as are invasive species like pythons and so forth. Sometimes they have to do harmful things to remove the problems. Sad, but true.
Texas has a huge problem with them. Feral hogs are rampant in some rural areas. We met a guy whose family has a ranch about two hours from Houston, and he showed us a video of a huge herd of wild hogs stampeding across their property. It was terrifying.
My husband has even seen one or two while playing golf in the Houston suburbs.
They are big, strong, and scary. They multiply like rabbits, too.
I like animals but wild boar do need to be killed. They are destructive.
Also, hogs, feral or not, also absolutely destroy the ground. They literally tear it apart rooting. They can annihilate crops.
Wild hogs breed prodigiously, and will take over an area; they are ornery and aggressive. They need culled. Where I live, the deer need culled too, because htey have no natural preditor and they just multiply until they are overcrowded and pass diseases around, and there isn’t enough food for all of them and they starve in the winter. Hunters serve a purpose by keeping the numbers from getting out of hand.
Is there something shameful about being an exterminator? Culling boars humanely can be dangerous and requires skill. Harry describes working in agricultural settings more than once in his book. This is just another kind of farm work. Farming involves killing things even if you’re not farming livestock.
My brother has a degree in wildlife management. Each year he had to take deer population counts and other formulas that calculated the food available, and it totaled out to population number that could be supported by the forest. Then he would organize hunts to harvest deer then his company donated the food to the local food bank. If this weren’t done, deer would starve.
Boar are terrible in the American South. They destroy crops and kill smaller animals – my family has lost several dogs to them. I have a cousin (yes my family is a bunch of hunters) that helps lead hunts for them. It’s a gruesome, dangerous job that must be done.
How do you know he did it gladly? He’s always been actively supportive of ecological management of wildlife, whether preserving it or controlling it. Wild boars are an incredibly invasive species in Europe and North America. They chew up vegetation in hoards and starve out other species. They breed like flies and are extremely vicious so Harry was actually doing something good for the environment.
hmm…interesting that harry also called willy incandescent. interesting…
maybe harry’s the one that leaked some stories about willy being “incandescent with rage” all the time. idk…incandescent doesn’t seem like a word used that often. wouldn’t blame him after all the smearing his brother did on him. an eye for an eye.
Or Harry or, even his ghost writer, picked it up while researching in the media for the book.
Or — maybe that’s a British way of speaking…
My family use incandescent as a regular word , to mean really really angry , maybe a British English thing , lots of sayings in the book like “to give ( Cams and Pa ) an inch and they take a mile are also used all the time
( I feel like he meant , maybe, that they had agreed for Camilla to be rehabilitated with the British public by PR stories in the media , into the queen consort role, despite everything that had happened with their mother, but C& C had run with it and now they were taking it further with smearing other people to rehabilitate her)
It’s funny, I noticed the same thing – the use of “incandescent with rage” here and it made me think, this must be a British expression to say that same phrase used in several different articles/places and now this book. It’s so rarely used in the U.S. Not unheard of, just not a common expression in the U.S.
One thing is clear, Camilla has come between the king and his sons.
She did this successfully because she took advantage the schisms in their relationships by appealing to Charles’s ego.
This exchange exposed how terrible the effects of her meddling and scheming.
It is quite damaging for the monarchy. The delicious irony is how she outplayed Kate and Carole.
She has not recovered from Princess Diane’s decision to tell her story even if the circumstances surrounding the interview was fraught with deception.
Her truth still resonates, especially at present.
Someone suggested that Camilla is hell bent on ending the monarchy with Charles’s reign, an illogical explanation notion, but if one factor in malice and forethought against Diana’s sons???
Then what??
Separating the father from sons, brothers from each other will be simple enough, due to obvious fractures, but to what avail???
Good press. That she has in spades.
What does that actually mean??
With all the mendacity and complicity with an amoral media, the percentage of people who did not want her to be Queen has not shifted in almost three decades.
(An assumption on my part, but their dislike was probably personal. Maybe they had, or know a loved one that experienced the betrayal that Princess Diana described).
Inevitably, Diana won.
That resonation helped her winning the PR wars, while Camilla ‘got her man’.
But Camilla never loses!! So?
Why not get into the middle of the then Walses after Diana’s death??
Shortsightedness….
Or simply opportunity…
In the meanwhile, William demands loyalty, gratitude and respect without reciprocity.
That works in an hierarchical abusive relationship for him, but it is the anthessis in a familial one for his brother.
This is not on Camilla, but makes it easy for her to be the power behind the throne.
It solidify the snaky foundation, for a weak throne.
This described exchange Is revealing for whatever reason.
Kate’s insecurity and over reaction to William’s infidelity??
William’s refusal to own his mistakes and constant need to devalue his brother??
But here it is, Camilla seized the opportunity to finally win the battle she started with a 19 year old.
The only problem was the war was over.
She lost.
I read somewhere that her own brother described her as a ‘wrecker’, someone who can’t be happy so she destroys others’ happiness. She’s looks like one of those toxic people who wants what she wants no matter the consequences or that it will be a brief, if not Pyrrhic victory, one that costs more than it gains. She wants power, she wants things done to cater to her wants and needs: she has had her own separate residence all this time and on the taxpayers’ dime, she wants wealth and that wretched man as her tool. Watch how she sets up her own children in the long term: Charles has reportedly already set up a 2 million pound trust for them.
If she outlives Charles, William will make her widowhood pure hell and no one will blame him.
As long as she gets everything she wants in the here and now and her children and other relations are sitting pretty, she doesn’t care what happens afterward. A truly awful, nihilistic personality.
I am waiting to see if over time the Sussexes recede into the background while William wages PR war directly with Charles and CAMILLA. It’s going to get ugly.
What kind of family did Camilla come from – one thing in common with Charles, Diana, Philip, William, Harry obviously was they all had extremely traumatic childhoods. Queen Elizabeth is an interesting one – some have speculated that the queen mother was actually a covert narcissist, but it’s hard to know because the very very little she has ever said about her childhood has only been good things – but come to think of it, that’s probably just based upon her letters to the queen mother where she reiterates what great parents she has, how idyllic their childhood was etc. Could have been placating her mother based on what she knew she needed to here. What was Camilla’s childhood like? What is her relationship with her brother? Are there any good objective biographies on her to read?
@The Recluse. I think much the same. With William it will go nuclear
Have you read Christopher Andersen’s book on King Charles? She absolutely did worm her way in appealing to his ego and acting in a way as his surrogate mother oddly. Giving him the praise his mother never did. She also seems an insufferable snob that was pretty cruel to Kate and her own family for many years. It’s very interesting because there must be no love lost between her, William, and Kate. Yet they outwardly tolerate her and I certainly do wonder what is to come in that relationship. A real life Game of Thrones has been going on over there for the past decade or so when there were 4 senior royals each with their own separate communications team and with very different goals. And I don’t know why this is just occurring to me now but I think that it seems as if one of the deepest hurts for Harry was that ultimately, William joined Camilla / Charles side after all this time that they had probably privately railed an griped about them together. The two heirs having to join together almost for their own mutual survival and it must have blindsided Harry, who probably assumed that his brother would always have his back. Shakespearean stuff. Wild.
Kate has been chummy with Camilla and there is that clip on Twitter where Camilla made fun of Meghan holding her baby bump and giggling with Kate about it.
Reminds me of Charles saying ‘I refuse to be the only Prince of Wales never to have a mistress’. He really is a piece of work and completely shameless when it comes to the wants and needs of others. His matters are the only ones of any concern.
It’s utterly appalling how Charles would literally dp anything to stomp on his sons just to protect that old b* and get good press.
Ooooh, i bet it properly incandesces Willy that Harry re-used the press’s favourite barb about his temperament.
Ok so I know that on the whole William is probably furious about Harry’s book. But do you think there’s some part of him that is glad that Harry blew the lid off on Camilla like this because William himself would have never been able to in this way.
In late April 2019, Prince Archie was about a week from being born. William was practicing his “I Already Have a Nephew” retort. He was furious that a royal baby was about to overshadow him, Meghan’s baby who they tried to destroy by hounding Meghan into taking her own life. By now, Duke Peggington was livid that the child who was likely going to be too dark to be a blood Prince of the Realm (*sarcasm*) would indeed be born. Pegs was pissed off.