In Prince Harry’s Spare, he does an interesting job of detailing the many roadblocks set in his path when it came to proposing to Meghan and setting a wedding date. When he first considered proposing to Meghan, he told his father and Charles’s immediate reaction was to claim that there wasn’t enough money to support Meghan… or maybe any wife Harry might want. Next up, Harry told people on his staff, Edward Lane Fox and Jason Knauf. Their immediate reaction was to try to find some protocol or rule banning Harry from marrying a divorcee.
I told Elf and Jason that I wanted to propose. Congratulations, both men said. But then Elf said he’d need to do some fast digging, find out the protocols. There were strict rules governing such things. Rules? Really? He came back days later and said before doing anything I’d need to ask Granny’s permission.
I asked him if that was a real rule, or the kind we could work around. Oh, no, it’s very real.
It didn’t make sense. A grown man asking his grandmother for permission to marry? I couldn’t recall Willy asking before he proposed to Kate. Or my cousin Peter asking before he proposed to his wife, Autumn. But come to think of it I did remember Pa asking permission when he wanted to marry Camilla. The absurdity of a fifty-six-year-old man asking his mother’s permission had been lost on me at the time.
Elf said there was no point in examining the whys and hows, this was the inalterable rule. The first six in line to the throne had to ask permission. The Royal Marriages Act of 1772, or the Succession to the Crown Act of 2013—he was going on and on and I could barely believe my ears. The point was, love took a decided back seat to law. Indeed, law had trumped love on more than one occasion. A fairly recent relative had been…strongly dissuaded…from marrying the love of their life. Who? Your aunt Margaret. Really? Yes. She’d wanted to marry a divorcé and…well. Divorcé? Elf nodded.
…To say nothing about the furor over a certain king who’d wanted to marry an American divorcée, which Elf reminded me had ended with the King’s abdication and exile. Duke of Windsor? Ever heard of him?
[From Spare by Prince Harry]
So even at the beginning, they were talking about Princess Margaret and the Duke of Windsor. All because Harry wanted to propose to a divorced American. They were absolutely looking for some kind of “reason” to get Meghan out of there quickly. In later chapters, Harry describes getting QEII’s permission at a shooting party, then the proposal to Meghan (which was already covered in the Netflix series). Once everything has been announced, the palace then slow-walked their decisions about a wedding date and venue.
Strangely, the Palace had trouble focusing too. We wanted to get married quickly. Why give the papers and paps time to do their worst? But the Palace couldn’t seem to pick a date. Or a venue.
…On our return from that trip I rang Willy, sounded him out, asked his thoughts about where we might get married. I told him we were thinking of Westminster Abbey. No good. We did it there.
Right, right. St. Paul’s? Too grand. Plus Pa and Mummy did it there. Hm. Yes. Good point.
He suggested Tetbury. I snorted. Tetbury? The chapel near Highgrove? Seriously, Willy? How many does that place seat? Isn’t that what you said you wanted—a small, quiet wedding? In fact we wanted to elope. Barefoot in Botswana, with maybe a friend officiating, that was our dream. But we were expected to share this moment with other people. It wasn’t up to us.
[From Spare by Prince Harry]
According to Harry, the palace kept rejecting wedding date proposals and trying to block out full months because of one-day events like “Garter Day.” Finally, the palace settled on May 2018 and they agreed to allow Harry and Meghan to wed at St. George’s Chapel. But that only came after months of back-and-forth while Buckingham Palace, Clarence House and Kensington Palace tried to throw up all of these roadblocks in Harry and Meghan’s path. Lord. So much for “we welcomed Meghan right away!”
Photos courtesy of Cover Images, Avalon Red.
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- Meghan Markle in St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle for her wedding to Prince Harry watched by (middle row from left) Queen Elizabeth II, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Wessex, Viscount Severn, Countess of Wessex, Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, Princess Royal, Sir Tim Laurence, (front row from left) Duke of Cambridge, Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall Duchess of Cambridge, Duke of York. .,Image: 515241949, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- Prince Harry and Meghan Markle exchange vows in St George’s Chapel at Windsor Castle during their wedding service, conducted by the Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby.,Image: 515242007, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- WINDSOR, ENGLAND – MAY 19: Prince Harry (L) and Prince William, Duke of Cambridge attend the wedding of Prince Harry to Ms Meghan Markle at St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle on May 19, 2018 in Windsor, England. Prince Henry Charles Albert David of Wales marries Ms. Meghan Markle in a service at St George’s Chapel inside the grounds of Windsor Castle. Among the guests were 2200 members of the public, the royal family and Ms. Markle’s Mother Doria Ragland.,Image: 515242584, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- USA Rights Only – Berkshire, UK -20180519- Wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, at St George’s Chapel at Windsor Castle in Berkshire -PICTURED: Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Doria Ragland, Prince Charles, Camilla Duchess of Cornwal -PHOTO by: PA Images/INSTARimages.com -36590382.jpg This is an editorial, rights-managed image. Please contact Instar Images LLC for licensing fee and rights information at sales@instarimages.com or call +1 212 414 0207 This image may not be published in any way that is, or might be deemed to be, defamatory, libelous, pornographic, or obscene. Please consult our sales department for any clarification needed prior to publication and use. Instar Images LLC reserves the right to pursue unauthorized users of this material. If you are in violation of our intellectual property rights or copyright you may be liable for damages, loss of income, any profits you derive from the unauthorized use of this material and, where appropriate, the cost of collection and/or any statutory damages awarded Featuring: Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex, Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Doria Ragland, Prince Charles, Camilla Duchess of Cornwal Where: Berkshire, England, United Kingdom When: 19 May 2018 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages.com **USA Rights Only**
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- The Duke and Duchess of Sussex with their baby son, who was born on Monday morning, during a photocall in St George’s Hall at Windsor Castle in Berkshire.
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- Prince Harry and Meghan Markle kiss on the steps of St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle after their wedding.
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- (Left to right) The Duke of Cambridge, the Prince of Wales, the Duchess of Cornwall, the Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke of York and Princess Beatrice sitting in St George’s Chapel at Windsor Castle during the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.
It is like he was so used to being gaslit, told no, informed he had no choice, by the time Meg came along- he thought all of this was normal – even royal family normal- to be rejected constantly and told what to do.
None of us knew his mother, but damn, i do think she would be incredibly proud of the man he has become, getting out of the institution before it killed his wife and/or children.
It’s just so sick that everyone in Harry’s life tried to deny him the happiness of marrying the love of his life. Toxic doesn’t begin to describe it.
Is there any family on the planet that says, “no, you can’t get married there, we did!”.
Is claiming churches really a thing, in the royal family? Why?
It is wild to me that they brought up Margaret & Ed VIII when they had more recent examples of Chuck & Camz and Anne & whatever her husband’s name is. They each married divorces & were divorced themselves. Harry Harry Harry, you didn’t think of that in the moment? Or as you say, maybe he’s so used to this kind of treatment he went chose a different path to fight it? ie., not confrontational in the moment.
And that top photo just kills me–everyone on the right, Harry’s closest family, is stony-faced & unsmiling, while the folks on the left are smiling (maybe because they’ve got Meg smiling at them). What a tense day.
Oh, one more thing, I’m with Christine above–they couldn’t get married at Westminster because Kate & Will did? What kind of lame excuse is that?
All these excuses and delays are really tightening my tinfoil tiara. I already suspected that Thomas Markle’s behaviour around the wedding was royally supported and Spare only made me even more sure of it.
And I don’t know if you plan to write about it in another article, but the scene where Harry asks his grandmother for permission was really weird. I have no idea if the Queen was joking, in which case either she missed completely or didn’t care how nervous Harry was about it, or was dragging her feet on purpose to see if Harry gave up.
I mentioned that as well in the other thread about her almost grudging consent. Maybe that was an example of her so-called dry wit, but for someone who was supposedly very close to Harry it seemed pretty chilly to me. I would have thought she’d be a little bit more pleased in her response.
I always saw it has her feeling slighted by the fact that he says “he HAD to”. Maybe she found his wording weird.
I felt like she was a bit sad that he put it that way.
She probably saw it coming and she was always going to say yes, She genuinely seemed to like Meghan even if “protocol” (ie the bigoted palace staff) stopped her from being able to defend her once the invective started flying. And she clearly loved Harry.
So that’s why I just think she would have liked him to say, yes it’s protocol but also because I love and respect you and I care about what you think. I like to think maybe that would have given her an opening to say some nice things about Meghan but maybe I’m just letting my imagination run wild.
I mean, I’m no monarch but if my child or grandchild came up to me and said I’m only asking you this because someone’s making me do it, I’d find that quite hurtful. 🤷🏾♀️
Nix, I agree.
I kind of got the vibe that she was joking. Like if Harry said that even William didn’t ask permission, the Queen probably wondered why the hell this grown ass man was asking his grandmother for permission. Like the way she was like “oh you have to ask me? Then I guess I have to say yes.” It made me think that Harry was really being manipulated by the courtiers there.
Agreed, Becks. I got that same impression when I read it. And she does have a history of straight-faced dry wit…
Most likely the queen thought it somewhat ridiculous that a grown man had to ask her permission to get married (which it is) and she replied in kind, but maybe she could have put that wit to one side or follow it up with some genuine emotion for her so-called favorite grandchild. This family and their parasites…
That’s how I understood the scene too
@Feeshalori I dont think this family does genuine emotion unless its anger.
Becks1, and everything is just a transaction with them.
But William did ask permission! They made a big deal out of it at the time. Something about timing it to force her hand? Like the engagement announcement press event was already arranged when he asked her.
@Becks1 The queen signed a written statement giving William and Kate “consent” (her words) to marry so there is no reason she would have found it odd or question if it should be necessary.
@Lindsay I think we should take the palace’s version of anything surrounding William’s engagement with a giant grain of salt.
A lot of the stories we have heard over the years have been shown to be on shaky ground, i.e. Harry giving William Diana’s ring.
@Becks1, I wonder maybe the Firm and the Queen expected a more formal request from Prince Harry (get an appoinment and sit in front of the Queen). Prince Harry did an informal asking of permission from his grandmother.
@Lindsay the queen issuing that consent statement after the engagement was announced and wedding planning was well underway is probably what Harry expected would happen for him (and did happen).
IF william did ask permission (since Harry says as far as he knew he didnt), then asking permission AFTER you have already proposed and AFTER the engagement press event is already arranged is NOT actually “asking for permission.” Its basically saying “this is happening you better agree to it.” That’s not what Harry was told he had to do, at all.
But again, we have to look at pretty much everything we’ve heard from sources about these events with a huge grain of salt now. Harry is shooting down so many of these stories.
Even if it wasn’t actually a question she had clearly had to give permission before. Harry wasn’t actually asking either… if she had said no he probably would have left then. They did say that William had to get and got permission to propose to Kate. Obviously no one was going to tell him how to force the queen’s hand, he asked and they said what he had to do.
A signed statement is pretty conclusive evidence she had given permission multiple times before not just an anonymous source.
a signed statement months after the engagement was announced and after the wedding invitations had gone out is not the same thing as William going to her for permission beforehand. Maybe he did, the point is we don’t know and her statement granting permission does not imply that he did ask prior to the engagement announcement. Once it was announced, what was she going to do? Say no?
Harry was told very specifically that he had to ask her before any announcement could be made and he said he was surprised bc as far as he knew (which is more than we know), William did not do that. Maybe he just didn’t know that William did, but I feel like someone would have gossiped about it if it was being discussed.
It could be the way he phrased it. He used the word ‘have’, so she used the word ‘have’. I wonder what she would have said if he had instead said ‘want’. I don’t think this necessarily means she was opposed to the marriage as much as roasting Harry a bit.
That is a lie
When Peggy married Buttons everbody down to 600 and below on the list had to get permission from the Queen and the Privy Council
Because if Peggy had married Buttons without seeking permission he would have been denign the hid role in the end a Harry would been 2 wjich wa done to VIctorais uncle
That changed in 2013 when it was reduced to the top 6 . So Harry has to get permission from both whlie Eug did not at No 9 did not have to ask either
Becks
We do know thought as the Queen also has to run in through the 4 Privy Councils – UK.Aus. Canada.NZ (who turned down Margaret) – the next day and they also have to sign of on the 1772 Act
As was done with Harry under the 2013 Act . Harry asks the Queen ,the 4 Privy Councils sign off on it under the Perth Agreement and they have to sign off on it the next day
So all this months waiting is crap , the Councils were asked and signed off of on sraight away as that is THE LAW
It will all be in the 4 Privy Councils records as it has been for 100 of years
William didn’t ask permission. He had staff contact the press and set up the press conference. ONE HOUR before the press conference, he told his grandmother. He didn’t ask permission, he told her.
Charles was out on an engagement and was surprised by the news, instead of being available for instant Happy Photos like the pre-warned Middletons. He made some snarky comment about ‘they’ve been practicing long enough’. The entire Clan Middleton already knew, but the announcement was delayed by a few days because of a family funeral.
It all depends on the delivery. Had she replied in a light tone & a smile on her face, a lift of the brows, it could have been her humor.
In agreement with those that say the Queen was joking or, like, Harry questioned (page 323), was some wordplay involved. I haven’t read enough information to suggest that ELF was an enemy-in Spare at least. Read the last third (the Meghan stuff was where most of my interest lay). Read/loved a lot of the army stuff and other chapters. So, may have missed something about ELF.
My opinion, ELF was telling Harry to dot his i’s and cross his t’s. ELF has a military background and may have sensed how certain people amidst the palaces were treating H & M’s relationship. I read it as ELF saying cover your ass. They move the goal posts when it comes to you. (ELF is still a trustee for the Invictus Games)
QE2 hears Harry saying he was told that her permission to propose was a ‘have to’. She replies, “Well, then, I suppose to have to say yes.”. The corgis already gave permission to Meghan’s worthiness and approval of her as a human. The corgis have been QE2’s most trusted advisers.imo
The Queen may have been questioning and mocking the permission to propose. Her consent is only required to marry. Not propose. I get the semantics. In the case of H&M, Queen Elizabeth 2 gave both. Permission to propose and marry.
@Lindsay, how is a signed statement consenting to W&K’s wedding 8 days before the wedding a conclusive statement that QE2 gave her permission to propose multiple times? (re:W&K) My answer. It’s not.
Harry & William are in Lesotho June 2010. Harry gets back to England after Lesotho and hears an announcement that an engagement between W&K is coming soon. Spare says November 2010. November 2010 isn’t that soon after June 2010.imo My calculation is 4 months. Harry’s point was, they spent at least 5 days together in June 2010 and William said crickets about an engagement to Kate. Oooof, how close they were!!!! W&K’s engagement was announced in November of 2010 by Clarence House, supposedly after a 3 week holiday together in Kenya. Oct. 4/5th, headlines about William being part of a saving rescue made headlines.lol W&K go to Harry Meade’s wedding Oct. 23, 2010. Is that the 3 week holiday in between? Not a believer of what Tina Brown writes..back in 2010 she may have known something.
Honestly, it sounds like contract talks were happening.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/prince-william-kate-middleton-engagment/story?id=12158508
Given William stole the entire engagement story from a friend? Who knows if they were ever in Kenya, much less right before the announcement. They delayed announcing it in part because of a Middleton family funeral, but the royals had no warning the engagement had happened or an announcement was imminent. I could see Ma & Pa Midds using that time to hammer out a deal, with Wm including his demands about living single as a married man.
Adjusting my tinfoil hat. I believe KP and/or CH paid Markle to attack his daughter and fake a heart attack in an effort to get Harry to dump her.
Why would TT having a heart attack compel Harry to dump Meghan?
And I believe that it’s entirely possible, even likely, that the Palaces paid TT to fake a heart attack, but I think it would have been in the hopes of the wedding being called off. I think the RF would have been aware by then that getting Harry to dump Meghan would NOT be easy.
Tom m was not in the hospital long and was caught by photographer eating fast food and out and about.
Honestly, I’m almost shocked that the wedding actually happened. And like Harry would care if someone got married in the same chapel as him. But apparently William does? Like who cares if he and Kate got married in the same chapel? Oh well, bc the wedding in windsor was honestly beautiful and trumped the other one but thats just imo.
WC was the better choice but I thought it was so weird that William didn’t want Harry to marry in Westminster Abbey because he did. And Harry just accepted it. Just another example that William doesn’t want Harry to be on an equal plane with him. With all the obstacles thrown in their way, it’s a wonder they managed to get married.
More like The Spare couldn’t marry in “as grand” a place as The Heir. Had to be a lesser chapel, rather than an Abbey.
That’s right. Westminster Abbey is the church William got married in and will host his coronation and Catherine’s. I can see why he’d want to reserve it for himself.
Exactly, everything had to be kept UNDER the scale of prince pegs and botox barbie. The only problem was that even when they did, it was a much more joyous and happy occasion than pegs and barbies. The Palace delayed and played. They knew what was coming from Thomas markle (the money hungry little toad), and they were hoping that Harry was going to call it of. They just couldn’t get their heads around the fact that Harry and meghan were getting married FOR LOVE, not because Megan had hung around like a bad smell for 10 years like botox barbie, and we all know it was because the Queen put her foot down that pegs had to marry her
Vivian will and kates coronation may be years from now. Anne has her first.marriage at Westminster and apparently it was ok with Charles even though his future coronation would take place. Kate and will hold no monopoly on using Westminster. Will did not mind that uncle Andrew had his wedding at Westminster
I don’t know if you’ve read the book but “Willy” threw a FIT that Harry got to be married in the same uniform he’d wanted to wear. And I know it’s been covered here but Harry had to keep his wits about him at his own stag party because William told him he’d shave H’s beard in the night if H passed out! So jealous!
I don’t get it. That weird ruffle thing down the front looks bizarre. I wonder if they both have some positive childhood association. Because otherwise that’s a strange aesthetic preference for both of them.
Ah, trolls. It isn’t a ruffle. They’re flaps that button/toggle outwards on that frock coat style uniform. If you look closely you can see the toggles running down the left-and-right sides of the uniform. The flaps *would* be folded back and fastened over those toggles, *if* it was ever worn that way. They’re worn ‘Undress’ vs. ‘Full Dress’. That uniform is almost always worn the way he did it, in ‘Undress’ style. They must both like it, since William pitched a fit about 1) not being allowed to wear it on his wedding day and 2) Harry getting to wear it.
It is an official uniform of the Blues and Royals, the regiment Harry deployed with as a member. Background on the Blues and Royals, which may be why they associate with it so closely? ‘Formed in 1969, this unit is now part of the Household Cavalry. It is the second most senior regiment in the British Army and operates as both an armoured reconnaissance unit and a ceremonial guard of the monarch.’
Nothing but second best for the spare.
Willy seemed to be obnoxious over the wedding venue just as much as he was obnoxious about everything else. Anne and Andrew both married in Westminster Abbey and nobody batted an eyelid and said it was too grand for a spare. Princess Margaret also married there. It was the traditional venue for royal weddings. I can’t remember why Chuck and Di went to St Paul’s.
@Cerys I read somewhere that they went to St. Paul’s because it is bigger and can fit more people. Not sure if that’s true or not, but it would make sense why it was used for Charles and Diana’s wedding if that is the case.
And wanted a small do but “mummy wanted Westminster Abbey” so that was what she got. She did only have one bridesmaid and one page though. Having been pretty much a semi-professional bridesmaid at every society wedding for 20 years she had no wish for “yards of uncontrollable children.”
Charles picked St Paul’s because he loved the architecture and because it had space for an orchestra. Westminster is pretty narrow by comparison.
Anne, Andrew, & Margaret were all the children of the monarch at the time of their marriages, William & Harry were grandchildren. I’m willing to bet in this hierarchy-mad ‘family’ that that plays into the thinking that William could get married at Westminster, ’cause he’s the heir, but Harry would have to have a ‘lesser’ place. It truly sounds like he didn’t really care, a wedding on a beach would have suited, but in that family? Oh, they care, they care a lot.
Beanie Bean
It was exacltly that . If George gets married it will probably be at Westminster beacuse it will be a State /Semi State Weddding but Harry got married at the family church
Oh lord. There is *no such thing as a semi-state* wedding. That was completely made up by W&K to justify not inviting oh, you know, the African-American US president. It had nothing to do with there not being enough room for important people, because the Midds invited a flock of people they didn’t even know to make it look like they had friends.
There is absolutely no justifiable reason why Harry and Meghan couldn’t get married at Westminster. Alexandra got married there, granddaughter of George V. It has nothing to do with him being born second or being a grandson. It has EVERYTHING to do with William being a bully and abuser, once again trying to control every aspect of Harry’s life.
A semi state wedding is what Peggy/Buttons had , So no heads of state unlike his fathers where there were heads of state
There were 5/6 weddings at Westminster in the 20th century the rest were at St Georges including Edwards and Sophies , the only ones not to were Zara who got married at the Cannongate Kirk during Holyrood Week
Lady Sarah married at St Martin in the Fields, not at Windsor.
Again, there is no such thing as a ‘semi-state’ wedding. That was completely and utterly made up – by W&K. It is not a real term, it is not a legal ‘thing’. They wanted a ‘private’ wedding but didn’t want to pay for it themselves. Hence the made-up ‘semi-state’ which does NOT exist, but govt paid because their hand was forced.
That’s why the whole thing was such a shambles, with the majority of the foreign royal guests left out in the cold. Those royal guests who are defacto Heads of State for their countries. QEII ended up having a separate meal event for them, because W&K refused to have them at their ‘private reception’.
You’ve insisted Harry couldn’t get married at Westminster because he wasn’t 1) the son of a monarch or 2) the heir to the heir. Both are irrelevant. Princess Alexandra (Ogilvy) married at Westminster Abbey. She wasn’t the child of a monarch, she was the granddaughter of one, and nowhere near the throne.
There was no justifiable reason for Harry and Meghan not to get married at Westminster, there was historical precedence for them marrying there. William didn’t want them to have a big wedding the same place he had his wedding, so he pitched a fit. Again, none of this is related to anything official. It is only related to William being a bullying b*tch. You’re making up excuses for his abusive behavior.
Snort. They sure harped on a lot about Meghan being a divorcee. Have they met Camilla?
For real. The divorced side piece is right there.
The divorced king is right there, too!
@JT and Cara you are absolutely right! I forgot about those two. I feel Happy for Meghan and specially for Harry because despite of those roadblocks they are happy and thriving. Love them.
THIS ☝️
Exactly!
I do not see why he was complaining about ELF he was just stating the law. HMG changed to law from everyone from hundreds to the top ,6 five years before
Where is he complaining about him? He’s narrating a conversation and how things went. If anything, he’s calling the law ridiculous.
Er…….he wasnt complaining. He merely stated some facts. Are you denying that these things happened?
I’m often entertained by people who say someone is complaining when they are simply questioning. I question things every day. It’s not complaining. It’s a simple F*cking question.
Am I not allowed to ask by the ptb?lol
Harry was so much in love he was unable to read the room. How many more ways can they say she is unsuitable without coming out and saying she is unsuitable; American biracial divorced actress.
Right?? !! Not saying they are right about it or that they aren’t racist AF or hypocrites (Charles being allowed to marry Camilla). Harry should be “allowed” to marry whom he wanted but it isn’t just any family.
If they’d openly refused him he’d have quit then. They thought they could bully her out. They got what they didn’t want and he walked away with a clean conscience.
Again, maybe me being too damn American, but I’d have been like “peace! ✌🏻we’re going to get married in a small intimate ceremony in Botswana.” And denied them their big royal show and kept myself and my soon to be spouse from all the aggravation around a wedding of that size with a family that dysfunctional.
Wasn’t there a story the H&M didn’t even want a big, splashy televised wedding? If true, I wish they would’ve stuck to their guns and had the small wedding because it’s very clear that the RF didn’t want the wedding to happen.
I always thought that the big royal wedding seemed out of character for them. It seemed more of a thing that they did to appease the royal “family” than something they wanted for themselves. Obviously, I don’t know them personally, but they seem more like the small, intimate, loving family ceremony type. Or at least a loving intimate ceremony with Doria and beloved friends, because they both have trash families for the most part.
@JT have you read the book?
He does say in there they wanted to elope in Botswana with a friend marrying them. Which is why they did their ceremony with the bishop before the large wedding.
@Polo I haven’t gotten the book yet. I meant to get it on preorder but I completely blanked it, so I was a little late on getting the book. I’m waiting for my copy now though but I’ve been getting a headstart here. I don’t mind spoilers so it works out for me, and now when my book arrives I have some background when I read. I’ll be paying really close to some details I learned here. I’m even more excited to read it based on the comments.
@nightshade, it’s funny bc the big wedding was meant to appease the family and yet the family was road blocking and trying to prevent it anyways. The big wedding was likely to get money for the press, which in turn helps the family as far as the invisible contract goes. Imagine if they’d secretly got married in Botswana. The press would have lost it.
They were playing along with all the “rules” at the time. I wouldn’t have put it past the RF and the RR’s to try to discredit their marriage if it wasn’t CoE.
I do wonder if knowing then what they know now they would have done just that. Trying to play the Royal game—of course we also now know that Harry was trying to operate from the inside to keep their security.
I didn’t think of that, they would have needed security to keep the press away from them wherever they got married.
The more that I read this book, the more I’m despising Harry’s family and the institution of the monarchy. Also, I’m learning how weak the individual family members truly are from the queen to Charles and William, weak in allowing their employees, because that’s what courtiers are, to treat members of their family in such an abominable and disgusting way. Moral cowards, the lot of them. #AbolishTheMonarchy
100% AGREE!
I have second-hand embarrassment for pathetic POSs like charlesDaTURD, BullyboyWilly, Hoemilla and even betty when she was alive. It seems their handlers just run rampant over them. Its like the handlers say: you folks are only the face of the monarchy but its us who run it; without us you are nothing. And the windsor clan believes this.
Yeah, it’s the employees who run things, not the big bosses. Very weird.
Honestly with all this opposition it’s a wonder that they didn’t run off to California to get married. They have never had any support expect for the Spencer’s, the Sussex Squad, Meghan’s friends and a few of Harry’s friends.
A hateful lot those royals are.
Because Harry would have lost his place in the succession
And he’d’ve been fine with that Fortuona.
+++++++++++++++++ 1000 times @BeanieBean. By the time Harry proposed to Meghan, he was already moved down 2 spots. He didn’t care about his place in the line of succession. Living a purposeful life to help others in need of help meant more.
Tetbury? Jesus William, tell us again how much you hate Meghan and the idea of Harry marrying her.
That’s my takeaway from that segment too. William did not want Harry to marry her and he was going to do everything in his power to make sure Meghan knew she was not wanted. Tetbury.
OMG I just looked it up.
Yikes, it looks like it’s slowly crumbling, like something out of the Harry Potter universe.
I couldn’t believe how presumptuous William was with suggesting Tetbury. And Westminster was out because he got married there? You know how many royal weddings have taken place in Westminster? But Harry wasn’t allowed what William had, ever.
And it’s about 3 hours away from London.
The Tetbury suggestion is completely in character with William’s constant diminishment of Harry. He wanted to make Harry as small as possible in every way imaginable.
Unfortunately for Willy, Harry proved to be the bigger person in every way imaginable.
William should have wanted Harry/Meghan to marry at WA because their marriage and love were sealed there – not “don’t copy us.” It’s just petty.
Omg I had to go digging for what church Willy had suggested. If it is St Saviour’s Church at Tetbury there is this review on tripadvisor:
Built for the poorer residents of Tetbury who got squeezed out of St Mary’s, St Saviour’s has a quiet charm.
How completely in line with what we know of Willy’s motives.
Omg. Of course that’s what William would sugggest.
William, tell us how you really felt about this marriage.
St. Marys in Tetbury looks pretty, but nice averarage couple wedding pretty, not royal wedding grand.
Would have been the perfect place for normal Bill and keen, a nice country church a few hours from London like normal middle class people. *Sarkasmus off*
What a tacky comment from W. Snarky and mean.
You would think, seeing how happy he was with Meghan, that his family would be so happy for him but nope. What a bunch of back stabbing jerks.
Terrible ass freaking people.
William’s opposed to Westminster and St Paul’s is not surprising but still surprising, you know? Like there was NO WAY he was going to allow Harry to get married where he got married, or any place even “grander”. He didn’t even want him to have the big televised wedding like W&K had.
He’s such a petty, mean, vindictive, racist a-hole.
Andrew and Sarah got married at Westminster, so it was totally appropo for someone of Harry’s rank to marry there. This is really about Will-di Amin having to prove he’s the biglier man. Harry’s more of a man than Cain will ever be.
I kind of got mixed messages from this. They didn’t want H & M to marry, but H & M were also expected to have a big public wedding? I would have been on the next plane to Botswana!
What they really wanted:
A big wedding planned, but a break-up just before it.
That way 1-they get rid of Megan, 2-they get a lot of sympathetic publicity, and 3-the media get a payday.
B. I. N. G. O.
ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Exactly this, can you imagine the rage on Billy Bullys face when it didn’t work! I almost (not really) feel sorry for botox barbie being there when he blew 😂😂
The BRF had 2 game faces in regards to Prince Harry marrying Meghan. Publicly show support for the wedding while privately sabotaging the wedding. They thought the private sabotage would work hence there would be to wedding.
You just had to look at all of their faces at the wedding. Every one of those so-called Royals looked like they’d have liked to have been anywhere else, what with the eye rolls at the gospel choir and the wonderful priest. Happily, Harry and Meghan didn’t seem to notice and looked over the moon.
The fix was in from the start as soon as you reported PC saying there was no money….he meant no money for her. There’s no “sliding doors” decisions they could have made where Harry and Meghan could have stayed part of this family (as long as she was his spouse) and it’s so sad that she cried in the documentary that she tried and wanted to do everything to fit in. The royal racists were never going to allow it.
Reminded of my days working in a toxic bureaucracy. Tons of people hanging onto jobs where 90% of their power is gumming up the works for as long as they can so they can later claim to have “solved” the problem – that they created in the first place!
I know people are complaining that Harry isn’t blaming his family. But having to do everything through this sort of filter, where you get constant pushback and disapproval, essentially for your entire life, is no way to live. How are these people supposed to be anything but weak and indecisive? I’m sure that his years in the military helped Harry see how all of this was a big part of why his family was so dysfunctional. It kept a lot of people employed!
Something that stood out to me in the book was how many different times and contexts where Harry followed orders, essentially. From the army, to his Royal tours, to running through the bush for miles, barefoot, carrying a camera, all because he was told to. It’s clearly something that was valued by him and by others around him. It’s amazing he broke out of that at all.
All the criticism of Harry being Meghan’s puppet really pisses me off. Bc the firm and press actually wanted Harry to be their puppet and that’s the issue. Meghan has just encouraged him to be his own person away from that mess, no strings attached and they can can’t stand it.
The RF seems like a living Monty Python skit doesn’t it? And at such an enormous expense…
Yes! it’s so bad it’s comedy.
Except the generational trauma makes it a horror show.
Wasn’t there also a throwaway line in their documentary that they “had to get engaged in England”? I don’t know if anyone else caught it when he was speaking about the proposal, but he did mention that he had to get permission, and he *had* to do it at home. (I’m not sure if it’s addressed in the book – waiting to read it on my flight tomorrow!)
And yet…it’s been shoved down our throats that William proposed to Kate in Africa. So, the heir can propose anywhere and Harry (I REFUSE to call him the spare) has to be standing on British soil?
Yuup! He would have proposed in Botswana
I don’t think they wanted Harry to marry anyone at all, not just Meghan. They wanted Harry to forever be the lovable screwup who just couldn’t get anything right to Peggy’s “stable family man” image (lol). That’s why they keep reminiscing about that unholy “threesome” (even though Harry has said he was very unhappy during that time) and bleating about H&M’s marriage being on the rocks every two business days because they have to distract people from the fact that he’s a complete failure in everything.
I agree. They would have made life hell even for the perfect aristocratic “English rose.” They made life WORSE hell for Meghan, no doubt, but they did not want Harry to be happy, ever.
Cannot have him happy and settled, not part of the contract, his choice of wife indicated individuality and independence of thought.
While Harry maybe valuable to the institution, the last thing is to let him be aware of this fact.
Just disavow him of personal thoughts of love, marriage and parenting, it does not contribute to ” creating royalty in capitivy’ (as one twitter commenter stated).
The problem with that thinking, it made marriage to Meghan more inviting.
Their reluctance was due to their own selfishness in the face of love ?????……
The idea of a married and happy Harry will be difficult to control???…
This outcome is the better alternative, it is among Maslow’s intangibles.
In the 21st century no less. Good lord. These people are a joke. Team Harry all the way.
This was nothing like the case of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. He had abdicated the throne.Harry by then was further down in line of succession.
That’s the thing that always surprises me about H&M comparisons to the Duke & Duchess of Windsor. Edward VIII abdicated the throne. Harry had nothing to abdicate, not being the king OR the heir presumptive. He was way down the line of succession. Therefore, no constitutional crisis, despite the bleating of the RRs.
The Windsors remained on the royal dole for the rest of their lives, relying on handouts from the Crown to maintain their lavish lifestyles. And if the various biographies of the Windsors are to be believed, they were constantly begging for increases in their allowances, or complaining that what they were receiving wasn’t enough. H&M are making their own way with their own money, money they earned themselves. They haven’t asked the Crown for a dime. Team Harry & Meghan 4eva!
The people making that comparison are stupid people who can’t pick a lane. One minute it’s “OMG he abandoned the Firm just like Edward!” and the next is “Why does Harry think anyone cares? He was only 6th/5th in line of succession, him leaving is irrelevant!”
@C right!. There is no true comparison. It’s like my nemesis AL complaining that Meghan tells Harry everything to say and then the other side of her lopsided mouth exclaims, “How can Meghan allow Harry embarrass himself?”.lol In fairness, I’ve wondered how Angela Levin’s husband & children/grandchildren (if they exist) could possibly love someone that consistently excretes bile & diarrhea out of their mouth.
All those stories on Meghan’s first marriage now has me wondering if the Firm was stalling to see if that marriage didn’t end in a finalized divorce? If it wasn’t a clean break they would have grounds to say no because Meghan would still be legally married and any children ( Archie and Lili) would be considered out of wedlock; therefore unlawful successors to the throne. They found the divorce was legal right and tight so they went to Plan B: Bad Dad. Fake the heart attack to postpone or cancel the wedding.
Peter Phillips was openly dating a woman whose first marriage was not over. Beatrice was dating her future husband who had a pregnant fiancee and broke up with her
Meghan s first marriage was legally over so she and harry had no complications.
I’m just glad she didn’t fall for it and jump on ANY plane to go see her dad, no telling what would’ve happened to her.
Yeah I said it, I don’t put JACK SH*T past that family…
It wasn’t until 2013 that the,Royal Marriage Act of 1772 was repealed, until then any descendant of George II who was in line for the throne had to get the sovereigns permission to marry. By 2013 that was a massive amount of people. The Crown Act changed it to the first six people in line to the throne need permission. I suspect it should now be more perfunctory unless there are massive red flags (I’m thinking George Santos level flags)
That you for that . If Peggy did not ask the Queen when he got back to the UK prior to 2013 his kids could not be in the line of succession and Harry would be No 2
Nobody is going to enforce that rule or any other on William.
William didn’t ask, he only told granny 1 hour before the press conference.
Once again, I will say, permission to propose is different than consent to marry. The Queen’s consent to marry, with both W&K and H&M’s, was announced about a week before each of their respective weddings. The privy? council meetings were held around 2 months before each wedding.
The more I read about this stuff, the more I believe W & K’s marriage was more contractual than a love situation. The 2013 Act had more to do with primogeniture and the line of succession. Deals were being brokered.
I remember reading about this online from a good source-Harry made it known if he was denied his wish to marry Meghan-he was quitting his royal role and moving out of the country-probably to Canada