One of my few beefs with Prince Harry in Spare is that I think he was pretty slow to recognize that Prince William and Kate were deeply unsettled by Meghan throughout Meg and Harry’s courtship and engagement. He was sort of in denial about it, believing that everything would work out in the end and his brother and sister-in-law would treat his girlfriend and fiancee with respect and love. When really, W&K were constantly signaling that they hated the fact that Harry was with a beautiful biracial American actress and they were looking for reasons to “put Meghan in her place” or stop the wedding in some way. So, after Will & Kate were constantly negging Meghan and being giant mean girls, the wedding finally happened and everything was fine. Except it wasn’t. The two couples scheduled their first “summit” to hash out their differences in June 2018. This was Meghan’s first-ever visit to the Cambridges’ apartment in Kensington Palace (which is notable because, as I said before, Will and Kate weren’t inviting Harry and Meghan over before the wedding). This is where the infamous “baby brain” conversation happened, but previously, we only had the hacky translation of this section. Here are Harry’s actual words. Highlights from Spare:
Meghan’s first trip to KP: Willy and Kate invited us for tea. To clear the air. June 2018. We walked over one late afternoon. I saw Meg’s eyes widen as we entered their front door, walked past their front sitting room, down their hallway, into their study. The wallpaper, the crown molding, the walnut bookshelves lined with color-coordinated volumes, the priceless art. Gorgeous. Like a museum. And we both told them so. We complimented them lavishly on their renovation, though we also thought sheepishly of our IKEA lamps, our discount sofa recently bought on sale, with Meg’s credit card, from sofa.com.
Kate’s fashion contacts: Meg then acknowledged the tension among the four of us and ventured that it might go back to those early days when she’d first joined the family—a misunderstanding that had almost passed without notice. Kate thought Meg had wanted her fashion contacts. But Meg had her own. They’d got off on the wrong foot perhaps? And then, Meg added, everything got magnified by the wedding, and those infernal bridesmaids’ dresses.
Easter presents: But it turned out there were other things…about which we’d been unaware. Willy and Kate were apparently upset that we hadn’t given them Easter presents. Easter presents? Was that a thing? Willy and I had never exchanged Easter presents. Pa always made a big deal about Easter, sure, but that was Pa. Still, if Willy and Kate were upset, we apologized.
Wedding seating: For our part, we chipped in that we weren’t too pleased when Willy and Kate switched place cards and changed seats at our wedding. We’d followed the American tradition, placing couples next to each other, but Willy and Kate didn’t like that tradition, so their table was the only one where spouses were apart. They insisted it wasn’t them, it was someone else. And they said we’d done the same thing at Pippa’s wedding. We hadn’t. Much as we’d wanted to. We’d been separated by a huge flower arrangement between us, and though we’d desperately wanted to sit together, we hadn’t done a thing about it.
Baby brain: Kate looked out into the garden, gripping the edges of the leather so tightly that her fingers were white, and said she was owed an apology. Meg asked: For what? You hurt my feelings, Meghan. When? Please tell me. I told you I couldn’t remember something and you said it was my hormones. What are you talking about? Kate mentioned a phone call in which they’d discussed the timing of wedding rehearsals. Meg said: Oh, yes! I remember: You couldn’t remember something, and I said it’s not a big deal, it’s baby brain. Because you’d just had a baby. It’s hormones. Kate’s eyes widened: Yes. You talked about my hormones. We’re not close enough for you to talk about my hormones! Meg’s eyes got wide too. She looked genuinely confused. I’m sorry I talked about your hormones. That’s just how I talk with my girlfriends.
Peg’s finger: Willy pointed at Meg. It’s rude, Meghan. It’s not what’s done here in Britain. Kindly take your finger out of my face. Meg said she’d never intentionally do anything to hurt Kate, and if she ever did, she asked Kate to please just let her know so it wouldn’t happen again.
[From Spare by Prince Harry]
The fashion contacts thing is so funny – it’s now clear that Kate was probably severely irritated that Meghan did have her own fashion contacts and her own style, and Kate was desperate to copy Meghan at every turn. This is exactly when Kate started copykeening Meghan too, wearing trousers and blazers like Meghan and copykeening Meghan’s feminine, professional, modern style. It’s also funny that Meghan brought it up and not Kate.
As for Kate’s baby brain… she was upset with Meghan long before that offhand comment. It’s as I originally thought too, Meghan said it in a sympathetic manner, as in “don’t stress, it’s no big deal, you just had a baby, you’re going to forget things.” The fact that Kate turned it into this ridiculous tantrum is appalling. And William backed up Kate and stuck his finger in Meghan’s face? William and Kate are so crass. And that was the larger problem – Meghan’s behavior throughout was dignified, classy, eloquent, direct, generous. She made Will and Kate look like what they are: petty, insolent, immature trash.
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- Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Prince Harry, Prince William, Catherine Duchess of Cambridge at the 100th Anniversary of the Royal Air Force, Buckingham Palace, London, UK on Tuesday 10th July 2018,Image: 515596973, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: Keith Mayhew/Retna / Avalon
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- Prince William, Catherine Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry and Meghan Duchess of Sussex at the 100th Anniversary of the Royal Air Force, Buckingham Palace, London, UK on Tuesday 10th July 2018,Image: 515596988, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: Keith Mayhew/Retna / Avalon
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- 12/10/2018. Windsor, United Kingdom. Princess of Eugenie of York and Mr Jack Brooksbank Wedding. Catherine The Duchess of Cambridge, Meghan, The Duchess of Sussex, Countess of Wessex joins Members of the Royal Family arrive at Windsor Castle for The wedding of Her Royal Highness Princess of Eugenie of York and Mr Jack Brooksbank.
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- Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Prince Harry, Prince William, Catherine Duchess of Cambridge at the 100th Anniversary of the Royal Air Force, Buckingham Palace, London, UK on Tuesday 10th July 2018
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- Kate, Duchess of Cambridge, Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex attends a service to mark the centenary of the Royal Air Force on Tuesday 10 July 2018 held at Westminster Abbey , London. Pictured: Kate, Duchess of Cambridge, Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex , Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. Picture by Julie Edwards/LFI/Avalon. All usages must be credited Julie Edwards/LFI/Avalon.
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- Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex departs a service to mark the centenary of the Royal Air Force on Tuesday 10 July 2018 held at Westminster Abbey , London. Pictured: Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex , Meghan, Duchess of Sussex. Picture by Julie Edwards/LFI/Avalon. All usages must be credited Julie Edwards/LFI/Avalon.
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- Britain’s Prince Harry, his wife Meghan, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, and Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge arrive at Westminster Abbey for a service to mark the centenary of the Royal Air Force (RAF), in central London, Britain July 10, 2018.
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- The wedding of Princess Eugenie of York and Jack Brooksbank in Windsor Featuring: Prince William, William Duke of Cambridge, Catherine Middleton, Catherine Duchess of Cambridge, Kate Middleton, Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle, Prince Harry, Harry Duke of Sussex Where: Windsor, United Kingdom When: 12 Oct 2018 Credit: John Rainford/WENN
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- (180711) — LONDON, July 11, 2018 () — Britain’s Prince William (3rd L), Duke of Cambridge, and his wife Catherine (2nd L), Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry (5th L), Duke of Sussex and his wife Meghan (4th L), Duchess of Sussex, attend a service at Westminster Abbey to mark the 100th anniversary of the Royal Air Force (RAF) in London, Britain on July 10, 2018. (/Ray Tang) (ly)
This scene was just bonkers. Listening to Harry read it helped as well. He and meghan were so confused by will and Kate’s beef.
Ive been in a situation like this with my brothers and their wives. It’s so uncomfortable. And then when you realize they’re really mad, about something that is seemingly no big deal, wow we’re not going to be able to smooth this over…it’s a bewildering and sad feeling.
You just can’t please some people particularly those who are anxious and high strung. Obviously Meghan was so alien to Will-be and Kate that the knee-jerk reaction was to squash it like a bug.
I have been a staunch Kate apologist in the past. I remember how awful the press and aristos were to her for being “middle class”. I assumed she was just cowed by the family and did as she was told. But I believe Harry is telling the truth and Kate comes across just as awful as the rest of the Windsors.
The problem is Meghan treated Kate like an equal and a friend. Kate expected her tp bow and scrape.
Little Katie has barely ever had female friends. Rumor has it that she was bullied as a child for her inarticulateness and inability to connect with the other girls.
Her lopsided understanding of the “baby brain” expression once again translates Kate’s poor socializing faculties with other women. The only type of social interactions Catherine Middleton is able to control are those when she is put at center-stage for men to oggle or in a position where she can salivate on men, hence her love of tennis.
Idk if your SILs were postpartum, but I will say that’s a very f-ed up time emotionally and hormonally. You aren’t always acting rationally.
That being said, it would have made sense for Kate to reach out down the road to make amends. At this point, I firmly believe both her and William are acting from a place of racism.
Sadly at that point *i* was post partum and they both were relatively new to the family. So the dynamic was not the same, but the feeling of them having grievances that seemed minor, yet were not little to them, realizing we’d never be as close as my husband and I had hoped when they married my brothers, I totally felt that.
Will & Kate’s alleged grievances were just a cover for the larger rot that had already festered in this relationship.
This is classic Brit xenophobia 101. Brits are often not very forthcoming in why they dislike someone, because they often don’t understand that that unsettled feeling they have is actually an ism i.e. racism, sexism etc. W&K created a mystique in their heads around Meghan and built outa fantasy that she wasn’t right for the family built on their racism, classism and a slew of other isms.
Everything from that point is nonsense. They othered and bullied a bi-racial woman out of the BRF and that is the bottom line.
That is the hurt that Harry & Meghan feel, that they were rejected for who they are and that is why they both feel it so viscerally. Sadly, this moment was always coming for both of them given who they are within the family and Harry has to learn to accept that his family are not sh!t and lack the empathy to build out real familial bonds.
The problem is Harry still holds out hope that his father and brother can show him love.
That was my thinking as well. All this talk about fashion contacts, baby brain, bridesmaids dresses, etc., all this is petty small stuff & just a way to avoid saying what’s really bothering them. W&K don’t like Meghan. That’s it. They were never going to like Meghan. And you’re right, H&M feel the hurt so much because they’re being rejected not for something they’ve done or said but because of who they are as people.
And I wonder who asked for this meeting, which couple. I’m guessing H&M, not W&K, which is why they weren’t willing to be forthcoming about what was really bothering them. ‘I’m owed an apology, you talked about my hormones’!! Seriously?
The historical dynamic in this highly toxic family going back hundreds of years is one of internecine spite and jealousy. Very few of its members have developed a different perspective or had the personal traits to overcome the prevailing zero sum mentality. Harry just didn’t think the brother with whom he had suffered through so much would actually throw him and his wife under the bus, but Willy would and did. Probably didn’t even think it was a big deal and so much the better if the “ American” took off. All of this destruction just to keep the press from writing about Willy’s side pieces, which they eventually will do anyway. The UK would be better off with an elected President to do the ceremonial.
The historical dynamic in this highly toxic family going back hundreds of years is one of internecine spite and jealousy. Very few of its members have developed a different perspective or had the personal traits to overcome the prevailing zero sum mentality. Harry just didn’t think the brother with whom he had suffered through so much would actually through him and his wife under the bus, but Willy would and did. Probably didn’t even think it was a big deal and so much the better if the “ American” took off. All of this destruction just to keep the press from writing about Willy’s side pieces, which they eventually will do anyway. The UK would be better off with an elected President to do the ceremonial.
Frankly, when people hate you, all you can do is go away (which H&M have).
I haven’t talked to most of my dad’s side of the family since 2007–they never liked me–and trust me, it’s no loss to anyone.
This whole story really smacks of “bitch eating crackers.” Literally Meghan’s existence rubbed them the wrong way about every tiny thing.
It IS bonkers. The two women were in their late 30s. For Kate, a grown up, confident on her own say to another grown woman she owes her an apology? It’s so petty, so dumb. Honestly, it doesn’t even matter for what. It’s the kind of stuff people demand from one another in high school. Or about very, very big issues. But “we are not close enough for you to talk about my hormones…”?! I thought better of Kate.
Both were determined to dislike her from the get go so nothing she said or did would ever be right for them! Were they equally off putting with previous gfs I wonder?
They actually liked cressida and i don’t think harry reveals how they felt about chelsy
Makes sense they would like Cressida since she runs in the same aristo circle. Didn’t Willy also pursue her sister for a while?
@naomi: yes. It was reported that william was wildly attracted to isabella calthorpe. She is related to cresside although i am not 100% sure how. I think they are half sisters or something
How do we know they liked cressida? It’s possible that Kate liked Cressida but it’s just as likely that she was only polite bc cressida wasn’t someone she could as easily put in her place.
Not sure if Kate liked cressida. If harry and cressida married Isabella would be visiting.
@jais: in Spare harry says that both kate and william expressed how much they liked cressida. I am simply going by his words.
Ah got it, Chloe. So many details that I’ve already forgotten.
There were press articles at the time about Kate showing Cressida the ropes of royal life. I’m not saying the press publishes the truth, just that the press were going on about it.
He doesn’t say how they felt about Chelsy. He did indicate he didn’t think granny would approve of her, though. I would reasonably assume W&K might not have approved of anyone non-English, especially if she didn’t care what people thought of her.
Kate never liked Cressida as reported in the tabloids because, aside from being more beautiful than she, she’s also the half sister of William’s love interest. It is only now that she likes Cressida after she realized too late that Meghan was more challenging, outspoken and intelligent than Cressida. And that she cannot be at par with Meghan.
I think Kate figured out pretty quickly that William had a thing for Meghan. Which of course got her hackles up pronto. William’s spitefulness and rage towards Meghan is the same thing we see from Piers Morgan, who wanted her too, and couldn’t handle being rejected.
I have no doubt that William made some sort of play for Meghan. The only question in my mind is whether Harry knows. (I suspect he does, on some level, even if Meghan hasn’t told him outright,)
When Harry dated Cressida, Kate told her that she should expect to be cheated on. So I definitely think she would have been a mean girl with her too. She might have hidden it better because Cressida is an aristo but it wouldn’t have stopped her. After all she was mean to the York sisters too.
I totally agree with Susan.
William’s physical fight with Harry came from strong feelings – either strong attraction or strong hate.
I think Harry got something wrong : William didn’t get the words “rude” and “difficult” from the press – William probably gave those words to the press!
As someone mentioned, Cressida was Isabella Calthorpe’s (Wm’s crush & more) half-sister. Kate may have been initially polite to her, but I strongly suspect she would have been equally obnoxious to her for that reason alone.
bulliam and khate continue to show their asses. They probably just found fault in every single thing. I didn’t even know that Easter presents were a thing to some people here in the UK. I only found out when I got invited to an Easter lunch by my boyfriend’s parents and she gave us individual presents along with a box of Easter egg chocolate. She explains that she treats it like Christmas, she likes that the weather is nice compared to Christmas in the winter. Since my son was born she would just focus more on his presents and it was no big deal. We still continue to exchange Easter chocolates but even if we don’t, it’s no big deal as I tend to go mad with my Easter chocolate display in my home.
I would bet that regarding the baby brain khate really thought that was literal and thought that was an insult but if she really knows a lot about Early Years care she would take that as a compliment as babies’ brains are amazing particularly during that time when synapses are being formed and connections are made.
I’m going to need an “Easter chocolate display” in my home this year, that sounds absolutely enchanting!
Hello, hehe, I’m a sucker for chocolates and pretty packaging plus I love bunnies. My first fur baby was a Britannia Petite rabbit, he had 1 black ear and 1 white ear, he lived until he was nearly 9 years old. I loved waking up to him nose bonking me, him chewing my stuff particularly my laptop keyboard and gadgets, not so much.
So, yeah, Easter is my favourite holiday. The shops here have already got some of their Easter chocolates out together with Valentines chocolates. We share the chocolates to friends and family.
That was my thought too. Kate didn’t know what baby brain meant and first took it as an insult and couldn’t/wouldn’t let go of her hurt feelings when it became clear that she hadn’t actually been called stupid. Considering that both Harry and Diana were called stupid within the family, it’s a pretty good bet that she hears it too. It’s not healthy or mature behavior but it’s understandable.
Rnot, but doesn’t it sound absurd for her to tell Meghan that she shouldn’t talk about her (Wails’) hormones? Meghan was being sympathetic and giving her an out. I wonder if she even has a clue how this sounds to people outside the walls of the institution?
Google exists though and she could have easily figured out what it meant. Plus her alleged early years studying and reading academic papers would have covered this time period and this term.
She must have misunderstood and doubled down when she realised that it was a nothing burger to save face. Some people can’t stand when they are in the wrong, especially when it’s with a person of colour. It’s like some people I’ve encountered here, like the man who boarded the bus I was on and asked the driver if the bus was going to pass by a certain shop and I know that it won’t go through that route but the driver said yes. I took pity on the man so I spoke up to say that it doesn’t go to that route and he would be better going to the bus stop before this as that’s where most of the buses travel that route but he took one looked at me and then turn to the driver and said “what is she on about?” and proceeded to get on the bus. So I left it at that, if he wanted to be inconvenienced just so he wouldn’t take my advice then so be it. He ended up getting further from his destination.
I think Harry was well aware. I mean, he grew up with the king of petty after all. What I do think is that Harry never imagined they would carry it over into work or wage an all out war on Meghan. He thought they would see what an asset she was. And all of that minor stuff would work itself out as they got used to each other and their differences.
No sorry but on this i have to say that Harry was quite naïve. He hoped everything would just magically come together when he got married. Meanwhile william has been trying to get rid of harry the minute diana departed this earth.
William has been treating Harry like sh*t and not even second best, just shit, his whole life. Why would Harry believe William would treat Harry’s wife, who bests the remaining three in all aspects, including looks, talent, intellect, maturity, knowledge, sensitivity, eq, and IQ any better? Like, oh, now we’re all equals. No, Harry f‘ed up and led his woman into the lion’s den without a weapon. Glad they managed to escape though.
I do think Harry was naive. There was such a sense in the book of “when its my turn, the same will happen.” Like he assumed when he got married, he would also get a bigger place with extensive renovations, etc. He assumed the palace would protect his wife the way it protected Kate. He assumed W&K would welcome his wife with open arms since he was welcoming to Kate. He assumed William would be with him the night before the wedding since he was there with William the night before his, etc.
It seemed that Harry’s behavior towards William was based out of love and William’s behavior towards him was based out of the heir-spare dynamic. Like William thought it proper that Harry should welcome Kate, since she was HIS girlfriend/fiancee/wife and FFQC. William thought it proper that Harry should spend the night with him before HIS wedding, but why would he do the same for Harry? etc.
I think Harry and Meghan could have been naive in this. They probably both thought that eventually they would see what an asset Meghan would be. Harry has expressed how much he wanted to do a ‘fab four’ and Meghan also expressed in the doc how much she wanted this to work. It’s not their fault, it’s the RF and press. It’s clear Harry sees this now ( since he put it in his book and no one will ever see W&K the same way again)
So they weren’t close enough for meg to consider kate just had a baby but they were close enough for kate to start dictating what meghan should and should not do at the wedding???
Meg is infinitely better than me because i would have pulled charlotte out of the bridesmaid line up
Oh I think she was forced to have Kate’s kids in the line-up.
@C. I think she was forced to include them too.
@Chloe I’m with you except I wouldn’t have pulled Charlotte out. But I would have nicely let Kate know that she can’t talk to me any kind of way. No ma’am.
The Sussexes were and are WAY too nice!
They’re so full of it. I remember reading a few “palace source” type articles that described a dust-up between Meghan and Kate over Charlotte wearing or not wearing tights, in which Mean Meghan made Kate, who “had just had a baby and was feeling emotional”, cry. It seems to be OK for the British press and palace commentators to discuss her hormones, just not Meghan, her own sister-in-law, in a private conversation, because that’s uppity.
That was my thought exactly. Kate obviously thought that they were close enough to tell a bride to redo all of the bridesmaids dresses four days before the wedding and that it was her seamstress who suggested it. She also thought they were close enough for her to also wear white to her wedding and expect an Easter present that even Harry had never expected or given to her before.
Kate and William are bullies and I am going to suggest that Kate actually led the charge.
I also suspect that because Willy was on the backfoot from his recent affair, Kate needed to stick it to someone (as she couldn’t attack William).
So Meghan was it – Kate was sharpening her claws to make Meghan her ‘spare’ and this was her quid pro quo from William as payback for his affair, he had to back her up.
I really can’t imagine how Meghan must have felt amongst those two freaks. Their behavior was unforgiveable. Kate’s spot in hell must be so white hot waiting for her.
That is a good point- I also don’t think William needs a good reason to be angry. I think that’s one of his default emotions, and makes him feel good.
I can perfectly picture Meghan’s confused face when Kate said that they weren’t close enough for her to say that. I love the hypocrisy that others are pointing out, where Kate thinks they’re close enough that on the same day Meghan learns her father is hospitalised for a heart attack, is the same day she should drop everything to have 4 dresses remade because her daughter allegedly cried about the fit.
William has a good reason to be angry and has had since birth but even more since his mother died. His inner self is angry and wounded. That doesn’t excuse his choices as an adult. His anger at everyday irritations is way out of proportion because it taps his volcanic rage about being brought into a loveless marriage between emotionally damaged parents in a toxic institution that had total say over his future from the moment of his birth. Then his mom died and he was used as a human shield by his father. He NEEDS therapy.
actually I think that Kate know that William had a serious crush on Meghan, it;s the only explanation that makes sense for his behavior.
Meghan is more articulate than William or Kate and she was already dedicated to philanthropic causes straight from her heart. She was going to outshine W&K just by being herself and that’s a very big problem for the Duke of Pegging.
@susan — I, like you, believe William did something or said something suggestive to Meghan. There’s footage of him at the wedding where he eyes her up and down like a piece of meat. It’s utterly blatant. William is the type of man who is, at the same time, attracted to and disdainful of someone like Meghan. It’s messed up but I’ve known men like that who will make it clear they want you, but if you politely decline will turn their rage on you. I’m sure Kate was aware of his attraction to Meghan — she’s got that kind of mean-girl sixth sense when it comes to her husband being attracted to other women. So instead of turning her anger on her husband, she turned it on Meghan. I’m also sure Meghan mentioned it to Harry, and that’s when the whole cookie crumbled. Her “get your finger out of my face” sealed it.
Flower, you’ve read my mind!
The greatest takeway of Spare, to me, is the fact that William and Kate do have a real marriage. I had always believed that, by the point Megahn appeared, thatcWilliam and Kate were just going through the motions. But no.
They watch TV together, are equally both very rude and up their arses all the times and want their family members to be deferential towards them even in private.
William thinks Harry was his to bully and so KKKate naturally felt the same towards Meghan. That both Harry and Meghan told them ” nope, thanks” annoyed the couple equally.
I also suspected something the book seems to be confirmed: William hatred of Meghan passes through KKKate and her inadequacies. Apparently what he feeds the tabloids is what he truly believes: that Meghan is a bully monster. This is projection and KKKate just adds to it.
Of course, they seems to be living lives apart and divorce is always an option, but they now have their common enemy so in a way, Meghan and Harry might have saved a marriage!
Harry also mentions they don’t like to sit together at weddings and changed the placecards so they wouldnt have to at H&Ms wedding. So definitely it is a together, but apart lifestyle.
Seems very weird to me to want to *avoid* your spouse at a wedding, unless you secretly hate each other.
But it does sound like W&K, at least during the time Harry was around, were still more or less a unit most of the time.
I think they got bad once Rose came along. I think that is why they didn’t want to sit together at the wedding. I cannot imagine not sitting next to my spouse at the wedding unless I was having major issues, but I am not married yet because I haven’t found my forever person either.
Katy and Bill are both so gross. Having your family over to bitch about not getting Easter presents and making up faux grievances about Meghan talking about Kate’s “hormones?” It was all about the fact that Meghan didn’t need anything at all from Katy except friendship. Katy wanted Meghan to be deferential and Meghan thought they could be friends. And Bill, well we know that he was jealous that Harry got the true gem in Meghan and that he also had a crush on Meghan.
What a couple of “royal” losers. The King and Queen of Losers.
Here’s the thing about the Easter presents that gets me: Harry was truly confused by this complaint. Beyond his not realizing Easter presents were a thing, the whole complaint struck him from out of the blue…which means Bill and Khate didn’t get H&M Easter presents. Yet they were upset H&M didn’t give THEM presents? What the holy f***. Another example of their expecting deference from the lowly spare and his wife? Making s*** up because they were determined to find fault with Meghan? Both?
I wonder if maybe Meghan gave Easter presents to other BRF member or her friends and Kate was made aware of that and took it personally ?
@Flower, if that were the case, I don’t think Harry would have been mystified about Easter presents being a thing. He’d have known she gave others something and would have connected it. That said, I can’t see Meghan giving something to some members of the BRF and not everyeone.
I mentioned elsewhere that I believe they really thought gifts were their due and a tribute from the spare and his wife. In their minds, no reciprocity was needed because of their privilege and position.
Inventing absurd pretexts to give yourself an excuse to berate the scapegoat is Narcissist 101. My parents were always making up ridiculous new rules out of nowhere so they’d have an excuse to punish me. The Easter Gifts thing is a clear example.
I notice that Party Pieces has many Easter items. Perfect for both home and gift giving!
When my kids were small, I would give them presents, so it wasn’t just candy. Often art supplies. I never once gave presents to siblings, a significant other, etc. Other children if they were going to be present for Easter dinner only.
It’s such a strange thing to complain about!
This whole piece just made me tense and unhappy. There is no way Meghan was going to catch a break with these two horribly rude, racist people. They constantly moved the goal posts, gaslighted her, and smeared her behind her back to everyone from staffers to CIII and Camilla (remember their admission that they’d trash talked Meghan and Harry over dinner with C&C while H&M were on their South Pacific tour?). Imagine inviting newlyweds, immediate family, into your palatial home for the first time and then leaping down their throats over trumped up complaints like … Easter gifts??!! Hormones??!! After every tabloid in England has published sympathetic articles about your morning sickness, your avocado cravings, your tender cradling of your bump. It’s just not done in Britain! Get your fucking finger out of my face, asshole.
ETA — say, did Bulliam and KKKHate hand out Easter gifts? Or, do they just expect, not only deference from everyone even in private, but also tribute?!
They invite them into their home, which it almost sounds like the first time Harry had been in it, and is less than 50 yards from his house. Then Will shakes his finger in her face to lecture her about rudeness?
Will and Kate didn’t send Easter presents either. These a–holes were just sitting around, making up shot to be mad about.
If anything remotely like that had happened to me, I’d be on the six o clock news, telling everyone and their mama.
Exactly. Poor Meghan. Her only invite to the inner sanctum of Kensington Palace 1A was because Will and Kate wanted her to apologize for whatever. And it wasn’t even for lunch or dinner, just tea. Then William, the consummate host, shoves his finger in Meghan’s face. I bet Meghan was never invited back to KP1A again nor did she care to return.
I picked up that this sounded like the first time Harry had been to their home as well (although didn’t he go when the Obama’s were there or was this a more recent renovation that wasn’t made public? Whatever, it sounds gross and over the top) .
So much for the close bond.
Kate: You talked about my hormones. We’re not close enough for you to talk about my hormones.
William: It’s rude, Meghan. It’s not what’s done here in Britain (finger wagging in her face).
I can’t help laughing every time I read this section. It’s like a Monty Python skit. I feel badly for Meghan who should not have to be part of W&K’s comedy routine.
They’re so touchy about something so banal – hormones? Baby brain? On the other hand, pointing out the obvious eating disorder upon first meeting Kate might be a tad premature…..I think Harry would have a lot of observations to share on that topic.
Starving to death can’t be good for her mood either.
not only does malnutrition make you moody, it makes it difficult to think straight and remember things. also your hair falls out. you stop noticing/trusting how you feel in your body and become disconnected. it’s really really rough on the body and mind.
Yeah. Casually mentioning hormones is rude but a finger in someone’s face is okay?
@Brassy Rebel I laughed when you said it sounded like a Monty Python skit. I had the same thought and will forever hear Kate saying “I am owed an apology” in the voice of John Cleese doing MISS Ann Elk. enjoy
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oh8ia
This is the section where they lost any redeeming qualities for me. This is the type of petty nonsense that even if you were in your feelings about it at the moment, any well-adjusted adult with reflection would say this is silly to be upset about. To make that a point of discussion months later?!! Also, the finger in the face was a huge klaxon to me. If this is how he acts in private, with someone he doesn’t know well and he hasn’t had decades of power plays to fall back on, how truly terrible is he with Harry and Kate (because you know those cut 400 pages had more physical violence).
The description of Kate gripping the chair until her knuckles got white was pure Willy rage. I think they get into some epic shouting matches behind closed doors!
Hahahaaaa!! Love the Monty Python reference!! I’d like to buy an argument….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ
One thing I can’t get over, rewatching the Netflix doc after reading the book, is that the bridesmaid dress texts from Kate and that whole drama happened 4 days before the wedding – meaning the SAME day from the media that Meghan was learning her father was taken to hospital for a heart attack.
Really puts the “yes I know what’s going on (with your father)” reply from Kate perspective” …
All Kate has ever had is “fashion.” Harry himself intimated this that when he first met her, she LOVED fashion and there wasn’t much else there, there. So there’s no way she was going to share with Meghan if Meghan didn’t have fashion contacts, because only one woman can be a known for her fashion tastes, and that’s Kate. After all, she has nothing else to show for herself.
What an idiot. She has to take credit for other people’s things and try to outshine women at every turn, because she is self obsessed and also unaccomplished and fairly meaningless, as humans go.
One thing that isn’t explained is why in the world Kate would think that Meghan wanted her fashion contacts. CT let us know it has something to do with Erdem? But what happened that made Kate think Meghan wanted her contacts. Did she wear Erdem around Kate and Kate freaked out? Did she tell Kate she also loved erdem and it would be fun to go shopping together? I wonder if this is the basis for those stories about Kate going shopping and not offering Megan a ride while Meghan walked to the same shopping area.
@jais, I believe it’s her insecurity that caused the whole issue.. she must’ve searched Meghan, saw her incredible taste and panicked.. plus, “her” designers probably asked for access to Meghan in order to show their work through the new duchess…
Lol, ok that’s an idea. The designers that Kate thought were hers could have been sending Meghan stuff. Not Meghan’s fault.
It’s sad that Kate professes to love fashion so much and yet clothes do not love her – I’ve rarely seen someone with so little natural style. Everything she wears looks like a costume, and it’s rarely flattering.
I’m certain that Kate was so proud of her “contacts” with designers, painstakingly achieved through scraping and scheming and putting up with William for nearly two decades.
I’d be willing to bet that she worked harder to get those designer discounts than she’s worked at anything in her life, and was looking forward to cowing and sabotaging Meghan, maybe holding it over her head. Imagine her surprise when Meg not only has great style and contacts of her own, but designers all around the world would have been clamouring to send her clothing. Kate would have been steaming.
It’s sad funny because if Kate had been even the slightest bit considerate or collaborative, Meghan might well have given Kate veto power over her outfits for their shared and maybe for all public events. At that point Meghan was eager to please and willing to dim her shine. She would have gone along with Kate claiming to exclusively own the color blue and buttons. Things could have been so different if she’d bent at all.
I know Kate has been part of the royal family for some time now but she grew up (upper) middle-class. As in, she grew up with people… speaking normally. Being friendly. The way we speak here in the UK really isn’t that different than in the US. We would totally say “baby brain” in a sweet/funny manner. We’re not talking about some unheard of saying. So… Kate putting on these airs about her hormones. Just know that this is not how she would have been raised. This is very much a “I am too good for you to speak to me casually” type thing. It has nothing to do with Brits being to prude to say anything about “hormones”. Honestly, it’s bonkers. And it just shows she did *not* like Meghan from the get.
I disagree Bernie, I believe that this was very much how she was raised. Before her wedding there were tons of stories about how grand her grandmother acted and was even nicknamed the “duchess”. Carole had long aspired to marry her daughters to titled, rich men so of course they put on airs and graces and mimicked those aristocrats.
This👆👆👆
Probably, but even so, she has managed to out-grand them all.
Yes and no. I mean, yes, I think Khate was raised with aspirations of grandness. But Carole, for all her ambition, wasn’t totally ‘grand’ so to speak (the reports of her chewing gum when meeting the BRF, saying “pleased to meet you” to TQ, etc. So I don’t think the Mids wanted to climb the social ladder, but they weren’t totally focused on mimicking the aristocracy in all matters.
I can totally see why Kate was offended by the “baby brain” comment. Women sometimes get those comments in a disparaging way (same as when we bring up a legitimate complaint and men say “she must have PMS”), though I don’t think Meghan likely meant it that way. But that’s the sort of thing where, in a healthy family, you go ahead and say, “That hurts my feelings,” and then the other person (if they meant well) says, “Oh, I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean it that way, and I won’t say it again,” and then…life goes on. No big deal.
It does seem as if W&K pretty quickly got to the “b***h eating crackers” stage with Meghan and then nothing Meghan did could really heal that. Which, OK, you’re not going to like some of your family members. It happens. But then you just endure the family gatherings where you have to see them, and afterward you say to your spouse, “Man, so-and-so is such a jerk!” You don’t then turn on them and help wage a massive campaign to disparage them. Even when airing their grievances, the RF doesn’t seem to have much negative to say about Meghan except that they thought she was pushy. Which is not a reason to make someone’s life a living hell.
Agree. ‘Baby Brain’ is quite double-edged. Yeah, it’s a real thing (I’m told) backed with research, but it’s also something that can be leveraged in a really belittling and misogynist way.
Personally I’d be OK with commenting on my own baby brain if I thought it was relevant, but would never comment about somebody else having it.
Sadiemae we know that she didn’t receive the comment in a disparaging way because Kate confirms the issue she had wasn’t regarding context but with them not having a close enough bond for Meghan to have the right to talk about her hormones. Kate’s response tells us that the context was irrelevant because she saw the phrase “baby brain” as a phrase that can only be used between people with a close enough bond. Her emphasizing the term “hormones” in her response and their lack of a close bond at the time is evident that context was never a factor in her unwarranted resentment towards Meghan. Kate didn’t attack Meghan for disparaging comments about her, she attacked her because she felt she wasn’t close enough to talk about her hormones yet, as in if Meghan were someone else who knew Kate better, she wouldn’t have had an issue. It was Kate being mean and trying to find something to hate Meghan for and nothing Meghan could have said or done would have been okay in their eyes.
Meghan is a class act. These are seriously the in-laws from hell.
All the charges W&K made against M are BS, of course, but what stands out the most is the Easter present one because that was so obviously manufactured, concocted out of thin air strictly to hold it against H&M. It’s something Harry and Will had never done, so why would they suddenly start? And by the way, if this gift-givign was a tradition, why didn’t W&K give H&M eater gifts, then– or is it that the tradition is that the spare only gives Easter gifts to the heir?
The other things discussed in this ‘summer’ are about wild, bad faith misinterpretation of Meghan’s well-intentioned actions—but the Easter present one they invented then and there as a bludgeon. It’s of a piece with all the BS around “protocols”– these are protocols that don’t actually exist until after the fact (as in after the fact Meghan has… not worn a hat or … worn an off-shoulder dress… etc).
so much of kate’s behavior feels very real housewives of beverly hills: petty as hell, purposely misinterpreted, grudges that last FOREVER
And it doesn’t say that they didnt give gifts to the kids – they didn’t exchange with W&K. This isnt about W&K pitching a fit bc they forgot the kids or something (I’ve never gotten an easter present from an aunt or uncle but maybe they did expect that, who knows.)
I think it just tells us so much about how Meghan was treated – these new traditions and rules and expectations were created and then Meghan was slammed for not knowing she had to follow them, or that they even existed.
I think you’ve caught it. Meghan probably sent lovely baskets to each of the Cambridge kids and didn’t include the adults. The adults were feeling embarrassed/stressed about something else at the time and all the bad feelings got focused onto the “missing” Easter gifts. The royals do psychological displacement better than any family on Earth.
I also think it’s absolutely appalling for W & K to complain about not getting Easter presents. That is just beyond rude. You don’t fuss at people for not getting you gifts! That defeats the whole purpose of a gift.
Exactly. And if Meghan didn’t know Kate well enough to say “baby brain,” then surely Meghan didn’t know Kate well enough to get her an Easter present!
@SusieQ- not to mention, as the Spare, Harry (& Meg) ALREADY got less of everything! They got less Sovereign Grant $ than W&K, they got a MUCH smaller house than W&K, basically, W&K always got the first and the best of everything, while H&M had to make do with whatever was left over. And yet, W&K had the NERVE to demand that H&M owe them Easter presents??? Wtf?? Did one of the kids chip some of their fine China or something?? Knock over a Ming vase?? HOW can 2 people as pampered as W&K POSSIBLY think that ANYONE should bring them presents for something as unimportant (to them) as Easter???
Did William and Kate give Harry and Meghan Easter gifts that they were so insulted in turn that they didn’t receive any? Or they saw their children got gifts and were whining where are ours? Oh, please, grow up. I give little Easter gifts to my great niece and nephew, but not to their parents. No one gets insulted over that.
Easter should be the celebration of the resurrection of Christ for anyone who is a practicing Christian and especially the future head of the Church of England. To be an adult whining about not getting Easter gifts just shows how unchristian these two really are.
I laughed at loud at this. Leave it to Willnot and Kannot to want some hollow chocolate eggs for Easter. What children they are.
I’ve read stories and rumors over the years about how “grand” Willy and especially Kate act in private, that they are “very much aware” of their positions and insist on being treated as such. As you said Kaiser, they are petty, insolent, immature and I would also add insecure.
Yep, they need to get a hobby! Like maybe do actual philanthropy instead of terrorizing your SIL.
Because all they have is their positions. They’ve got nothing else to show for themselves. No real initiatives like Harry or Charles. And they can’t even claim to be hardworking like the Queen or Anne because they are spectacularly lazy. Their numbers are always abysmal. So clinging to their positions is what they are left with.
kHate has been very ‘grand’ since the waity days which got worse when they got married – there is an infamous story about a time when she went shopping (private shopping mind) with Ma and Pips and they both kept referring to kHate as the Duchess towards the staff i.e. the Duchess wants this etc..
The whole Middleton clan have been acting ‘grand’ from the very beginning.
Oh my, that is eyeroll inducing and sad. I go back and forth over how much Kate or William really care about this stuff, but it has to be embarrassing to deep down know you don’t measure up to your actual peers. Not this royal hierarchy nonsense, but other human beings who are 40 years old with university educations. They just have nothing to show for their lives that wasn’t awarded to them. No wonder they cling to “protocol” and hierarchy so much, the don’t even pale in comparison, they don’t exist in comparison.
It’s massive social insecurity on the part of all the Middletons I’d say, KM must have a huge inferiority complex to behave as she has / as she does.
I feel too that there was massive jealousy of Meghan simply because she was more attractive and confident, and the Queen & Prince Philip took a real shine to her from the start.
For me the above explains all of W&K’s despicable behaviour. Awful.
I still can’t get over that Khate was so livid about the baby brain comment. It seems so innocuous to me, like something you would say to a friend in good-natured, maybe slightly teasing way. Does she have no girlfriends? She definitely reacted like she had never been spoken to in that way.
We pretty much established on here she doesnt. No one goes into whiteknuckle rage over a comemnt if theyd heard it before.
Yes, Kate WAS livid over “baby brain” and being so disproportionately angry usually signals that it’s about something else.
Armchair analyst theory: I’m wondering if Kkkate didn’t want to be excused by Meghan for her “forgetfulness”. What if that forgetfulness was deliberate on her part, meant to let Meghan know that she can’t be dictated to (being told to go to the tailor at a certain day/time)? I’ve read enough comments about her rudeness and meangirl behaviour that this is plausible. Then it makes more sense that she was incensed about Meghan extending her grace (how dare she? who does she think she is?) instead of feeling awkward and understanding her place?
This makes a lot of sense. How did Kate forget something about the rehearsal schedule when she likely had assistants to help her? She purposely forgot something and rather than baiting Meghan into crying or fighting, Meghan gave her sympathy. Which for Kate was infinitely worse.
William did far worse with the finger, but yeah, I do think it was inappropriate to go ‘it’s your hormones and baby brain’ to a woman who had a kid a few weeks prior. Kate had literally given birth less than a month before the wedding. That’s how you talk to your close friends, not your SIL that you apparently don’t know well.
Look, I’m not a fan of W & K, but I do think sometimes y’all read the worst into every action that Kate does.
Really? I am pretty sure that I would say “haha no worries you probably have baby brain!” to a complete stranger, if they had a newborn and were saying they had forgotten something. To each their own.
It still did not give kate carte Blanche to let a false story about Meghan stay in the media. Even if she did not like the comment
The fans making comments are always the ones prefacing with “Look, I don’t like William and Kate but” or “Look, I love Meghan and Harry but”. Lol.
The reason she didn’t “know Kate well enough” to make a comment about that is because Kate didn’t want to get to know her and was angry the mixed-race woman dared to say anything about her lily-white body. Even if you don’t like the comment “baby brain” it did not warrant Kate gripping a sofa with her white knuckles in response, lol.
Except it’s worth mentioning your discomfort and accepting the apology gracefully. Not Kate throwing a tantrum about it. The overreaction to something easily fixed plus the whole Easter presents puts it into a different perspective.
I can see it both ways. I don’t think Kate should have read Meghans statement as ill will but I do think blaming things on hormones has been a disservice to women everywhere. I’d much rather hear “you have a lot going on” as opposed to “baby brain” even though I fully know pregnancy and children absolutely mess with your head. That being said I doubt Kate disliked this because she’s a feminist who thinks women own too much of the mental load and it’s fine if we forget things sometimes.
I agree, I thing it was a bit inapproproiate, I would only talk about my hormones to my closest freinds not to my SIL.
I think Meghan treated Kate as a close friend or family not as an new aquaintance you have to be polite to. Families are different in this way and I would rather be carefully polite. But it took two years until my mother in law offert me the use of her fist name ans not Mrs…. and she took even longer to forgive my sister in law calling her by her fist name without an explicit invitation.
But Kates behaviour was definitly fare worse, especially in sending mixed messages. Her behaviour around the bridesmaids dresses was the entitled behaviour of a person who does not respect the boundaries she wanted to set for herself ans totally over the top as well.
She expectet to be treated with distance and politeness but was not willing to do the same for Meghan and, at the same time, was impolite in not glossing over something she considered a fauxpas, maybe mention it in a private moment, but making a drama out of it.
Meghan was Not talking about her hormones. The Duchess did not say you had pimples because you had a baby. Kate just wanted William and more importantly, Harry to start seeing Megan as mean and ‘inappropriate ‘
I mean if you don’t think Kate overreacted here and just wanted something to hold over a woman she clearly didn’t like or ever even give a chance to, then that’s how you interpret it. If that’s how you see it, given everything else we know about Kate, then I don’t know what else to tell you.
We can’t hear Meghan’s tone, of course, but even if Kate did take offense, she hung onto that grievance for months and then sprung it on Meghan when she thought it would do the most harm.
As for Kate’s hormones, remember that the palace dutifully sent out public press releases when she was experiencing HG with her pregnancies, which I don’t recall her demanding an apology for. And Kate never misses an opportunity when doing an event with babies to talk about feeling “broody”.
My point is, it’s never been about Meghan’s actual comments – her crime was being less than deferential to her sister in law and treating her like an equal.
correct. while I can see than this comment might have irritated her, the fact that she held a grudge about it for months is particularly telling.
To me it’s the equivalent of “Oh don’t worry, I know you’re PMSing.” Sure, if my bff is aware of it because I told her and says something like that, it’s to me a sign that she’s just being supportive. But everyone with a cycle knows that you do NOT want anyone outside of that very close circle to blame anything on your hormones.
I’m sure everyone will go “THAT’S NOT THE SAME” but it really is. Meghan meant well but Kate just didn’t want a close relationship and certainly didn’t want the hormones brought up. I sometimes thought while reading Spare that Harry didn’t pick the best examples to make his point. Because the lipgloss? I wouldn’t have loved it. Hormones? Please don’t go there, it can sound patronizing. Dressed to the nines? Okay so she dressed up, that’s okay, not everyone does ripped jeans. He could have talked more about her overall character and his relationship with her instead of getting lost in these little weird episodes.
Let’s accept that as true, it bugged Kate. But it’s such a small thing; if it bugs you in the moment, say so. But to stew over it for months afterward? That really makes no sense. They, W&K, were just reaching for anything to dislike Meghan & hold her at fault for something.
I have had kids and I have HORRIBLE PMS. To me, personally, baby brain is a very different thing than bringing up PMS. “Baby brain” is tied to hormones, yes, but for me it was also tied to exhaustion and just having another person to care for that I wasn’t used to having yet, you know?
And the context here cannot go unnoticed. Meghan was giving Kate a PASS for missing or being late for a wedding rehearsal. She was forgiving her for messing something up relating to her wedding which was a source of huge stress at that time.
So even if maybe you wouldn’t have appreciated that comment, I can hope that you could appreciate the intention behind it (to make Kate feel better about missing something) and also to acknowledge that white knuckling a leather chair months after the comment is a very extreme reaction.
I find this view interesting. I am curious about this: so the articles over the years both leaked by Kate and not, discussing in depth her issues with morning sickness, and the articles that she and her tabloid contacts leaked about her feeling postpartum, emotional, and hormonal at that dress fitting, are ok, but Meghan excusing Kate not bothering to remember something about important wedding planning is worth a screaming and shouting session with Kate white-knuckling the seat. Agree to disagree.
I mean hell, her uncle went to the papers to describe her breasts and her sex life and still got a wedding invite.
So the idea that Meghan is the one who stepped over the line of appropriateness, yeah, I’m not buying this.
@Becks1: I sure as hell wouldn’t overreact the way Kate did, that was nuts. I‘m not saying I‘m on Kate‘s side here, just that I‘m not sure Harry did a good job giving us a picture of Kate. It became clear who Chuck and Will are. I still have no clue about Kate and I can tell he tried and I think I know what he wanted to express but missed the exit by a little. I don’t even think he dislikes her, he mostly pities her? And clearly thinks she is super uptight compared to his wife. Which is a bit unfair. If he wanted to express something else, it didn’t come across.
Kate thinks of herself as the queen to be 😋 so she cannot let herself be belittled in her mind by being familiar to the sister-in-law she is superior to. This is simples! She is a is a silly, stuck up, head up her skinny arse, hierarchal snob.
I don’t see them as equal at all, nor do I interpret “baby brain” as a hormone-related comment. And I’ve had 3 babies. Sure, there may be a hormonal component, but I was also distracted by caring for a new human, tired from lack of sleep, forgetful from having other important things on my mind. Anyone within a city block of a new baby know it’s a big adjustment, with or without hormones. I think most new mothers would appreciate a sympathetic acknowledgement. Kate’s response and months-long grudge was all about what she viewed as a lack of deference on Meghan’s part.
Meghan didn’t know her SIL well because her SIL refused to get to know her. Remember the shopping story when Kate didn’t invite her to go in the same limo with her even though they showed up at the same store? Remember Kate completely ignoring Meghan and newborn Archie at a polo match? Kate is always on the look-out for ways she can demean and threaten Meghan to keep her “in her place”. Jealousy is a b*tch.
I get what you are saying. And maybe I’m too casual, but remember the context. Kate forgot something. Meghan was trying to make her feel
Better about that. She said eh no worries you have baby brain. – kind of like if your pregnant SIL complains that she is overeating and you say no worries girl you are eating for two. The problem here is that when you hate someone, anything they say drives you mad.
Yup, this. “Bitch eating crackers” again.
when I got to that part (even knowing it was coming) I was just gobsmacked. They really sat there and threw hissy fits and called Meghan rude because she was trying to excuse Kate for missing a wedding rehearsal and because Meghan didn’t need Kate’s fashion contacts?
It’s clear that they were threatened by Meghan from the start and acted accordingly. They wanted to drive her out and they succeeded. But as we’ve said multiple times here – they did not expect Harry to go with her.
Meghan was being polite. Saying it was baby brains that caused her to miss a rehearsal is far milder than saying yeah she was a miserable see you next Tuesday. And then kate has the gall to throw the more polite reason in her face? Meghan should have said “oh sorry next time I will just say you were a see you next Tuesday for doing that. Is that less personal for you?”
I just can’t with these two. How can you be so unwelcoming and rude to your brother and his partner? And what did Kate think Meghan would have done with her fashion contacts? Ordered so many coatdresses and little house on the prairie dresses she’d have had to go without?
Racism is often about what is unsaid. And will and Kate reek of it.
Would they have expected deference, would they be so insistent on Meghan “knowing her place” if she was not a black woman?
I mean – Kate seems to dislike all women, and William, like his “heir” dad hates anyone getting more attention than him- so jealousy is at okay too.
But this seems like textbook racism.
And Harry looks- at best- painfully naive about his brother and Kate’s actual personalities as this happened time after time. Starting at Kate’s sister’s wedding.
*at play too [not at “okay” too] sigh-
Of course it was.
My eyes are rolling so hard on this one. Baby brain is a real thing.
I forgot words all the time. Inches in particular. I couldn’t remember the word inches. I sell art for a living, do you know how many times a day I say that word. And for several weeks it’ blanked on me consistently.
I had clients realize it was baby brain and we all laughed about it and thought it was hilarious.
All of these grievances are manufactured and set up because Kate decided she didn’t like Meghan. If you already don’t like someone anything they say you can find a way to twist into something mean. She never gave Meghan a real chance.
This whole conversation was bizarre. You really got the feeling that Will and Kate had spent much of the past year magnifying every single thing that they hated about Meghan and reciting them in a litany, always ending with “AND she didn’t even get us a present for Easter!”. Interesting, though, that these are all personal grievances, and old ones at that.
You’d think that if Meghan was such a bully to her staff that William, protector of the salty white tears, would have called her out on it here in this first summit. Surely by June 2018 she was already terrorizing their staff with outrageous demands that people show up to work and do the job they are paid to do?
Again, I feel it’s cultural differences between Americans and Brits.
I respectfully disagree.
I’m from Canada, and moved to London 9 years ago. I grew up with many American friends, and have some American and Canadian friends here too. I’ve dated exclusively English people, met their families, etc. as well.
It’s not cultural differences between Will and Kate, and Meghan. I’ve worked in quite a few different types of environments, ranging from restaurants to hospitals to offices to posh places to working class places.
It’s not a cultural difference; they tried everything they could to make Meghan unwelcome into both the Firm and the family. Meghan did everything she could to fit in, be polite and gracious, but still be assertive. Being assertive is not a bad thing, and it does not mean aggressive. Just because someone takes being assertive as aggressive, doesn’t mean it is so.
Cultural differences doesn’t excuse Will and Kates bad manners though. You would think they would have at least had some etiquette training since they are supposed to be soft diplomats.
LOL absolutely. Since when is white-knuckling in anger and pointing a finger in someone’s face an acceptable response to an allegedly offensive (which wasn’t actually) comment? Particularly for what should be the ‘best’ family in Britain, whose main job is to be diplomatic?
W&K were working with the American Jason Knauf. They also are supposed diplomats who should be able to accept and work with someone from any culture.
whatever else the queen did or did not do, she was known to be unfailingly gracious. if her pen had broken on live tv, the most she’d have said would have been something like, “oh my” and then got on with it. if Meghan had made a faux pas at the beginning, it wouldn’t have been brought up three months later (with finger pointing and additional grievances on the side).
these clowns can’t even get “keep calm and carry on” right, as they consistently fail to do either. they Just Don’t Get It. they are really letting the side down. being gracious is part of (the image of) being royal. you don’t have to bully anyone because you are already above it all. they’re royalling wrong!
Even if it were a cultural difference, W&K are supposed to be diplomats – they’re supposed to be adept at maneuvering these clashes in communication not pouring petrol onto them.
A man sticking his finger into a woman’s face in front of her husband is a challenge and act of violence. William was making it clear that he was pulling rank and that Harry could not protect her.
Both W&K were crass and showed a lack of graciousness and breeding that they so covet.
Their behavior was disgusting. Whatever sins they perceived Meghan was guilty of, she conducted herself with the most self respect.
A finger in the face is an insult internationally.
Right? I’m a woman, and if some guy wags his finger in my face during a disagreement, we’re gonna have a big problem. It’s nasty and demeaning.
British women are okay with their brothers-in-law wagging their fingers in said British women’s faces? REALLY? I don’t believe you.
And if he’d done that to this American woman, I’d have shown great restraint not to bite his finger off.
American here living 10 years in Canada (Toronto). I have experienced loads of cultural differences and feel Canadians are kind of British adjacent if they were born here. I am too confident (unless I am getting the check for everyone because they are too shy to do it), too optimistic (Canadians seem to be down on themselves far more than I expected, a sense of hopelessness at times, maybe it is the long winters), too loud, too direct (Canadians appear passive aggressive and beat around the bush rather than tell you their honest opinion).
This above is not cultural differences at all, but straight up bullying and rage. White knuckle rage and pointing the finger in my face is aggression at its finest. Not what I would have expected from posh aristocrats, but they both seem to have aggressive tendencies. I bet Willy and Kate get into some epic screaming matches. Kate I think is not some shrinking violet, but just as rude and aggressive as William.
@Andrea — I grew up in Michigan, same long winters as southern Canada, and we were not hopeless or down on people who were confident, and people there are plenty blunt :). I think that kind of winter does produce a certain dry/self-deprecating sense of humor (like on The Red Green Show), but not pessimism etc.
I have met several people here who are very down on themselves and have low self esteem (and they are in their 40s and 50s). One friend basically told me that me at 41 should give up, I will never find a man and will end up alone like a friend of hers who is 58. This friend won’t leave her husband because she doesn’t wanna have to reduce her lifestyle (she earns more than him) even though they are basically like roommates. I have seen a very well off other friend get involved with a man who abused her just because she was desperate to have kids at 35. She had two with him and it took forever to ditch him even though she made 250k+ per year and he was in and out of jail and couldn’t hold down a job. An old roommate/friend moved in with a poly girlfriend she met online even though she was monogamous because that was the only person she could find during the pandemic and “couldn’t be alone”.
I am still hopeful I will find love and I only have one friend up here who is hopeful for me (mostly because everyone else I have met have settled/given up). I have tried to distance myself/end friendships with people with these attitudes, but it has left me alone, so I have had to hang onto a few of the ones who aren’t as bad. All of my long term American friends are the complete opposite of this.
Ok I can’t speak for all torontonians but I seriously do not know people who are staying in bad or abusive relationships just because they are Canadian. In fact I don’t know any at all. We have decent divorce laws here that aren’t based on gender. My friends who practice family law here are never bored.
I also live in Canada (GTA) and I don’t find them that way? (Granted I am Canadian so I might be unconsciously bias about this). Most of the people I know have enough self-respect to not continue/start a relationship with a cheater. They’re almost all very career-drive, and tend to delay settling down until in their late 30s/40s as they don’t really care to have children/plan to adopt I do think though the current housing crisis, inflation, and the pandemic has colored people’s mood a tad darker-that might be the hopelessness you’re seeing?? But I don’t think it’s just Canada-I thinkit’s happening globally rn.,
@rose Women are very career driven here and there are indeed divorcees.
I will say also I found it very difficult to make friends here as an “outsider”. Born in the GTA people seem to have the same 3-5 friends from high school or university and don’t seem to have any slots available except once per month for mere acquaintances, which was totally not what I experienced in the US where I have a plethora of friends, many which span 15-30 years. I have friends in Buffalo because I lived there for a year prior to moving to Toronto 10 years ago and to this day, they introduce me to more and more friends, so it isn’t my age either. I know people have busy lives, but I find it rather cold and isolating. All that being said, I am planning to move to Ottawa soon. I have a few American friends there and know some others in Montreal. I would stay if I had a solid group of people, but most of the people I have met are flaky, unsupportive, and cold and after 10 years, I am throwing in the towel. I am an only child, so community and reliable friends will be important to me as I age(as I crave it now as well), especially if I do not marry(which I hope I do). If I ended up in the hospital, my only friends who would visit me would be fellow ex pats atm. I wish this weren’t the case and if I were back in my college town or anywhere else in the US where a group of my friends are, I could count on them no matter what and vice versa.
@rose I think I have just had a difficult time finding my place as well with the cultural differences. I am used to meeting people randomly and becoming friends for decades. I find people are hesitant of newcomers and I have known several people 9 years, but I wouldn’t call us “close” or people I would consider close friends and that I find sad. Why I plan to move to Ottawa. Maybe a smaller city is a better fit for me. Plus, I love the outdoors.
I think it’s cultural differences between assholes and not assholes. You take racism and classism (a divorced American actress) and season it with jealousy. How dare they have both charisma and better skills, get them off the continent!
Nothing to do with cultural differences. William and Kate were deliberately rude and obnoxious to Meghan, not just at this particular meeting but constantly. It’s arrogance, racism and jealousy at its absolute worst. Not to mention stupidity.
“Cultural differences” is the new “both sides”, eh?
W&K are def the most wasps that ever existed. Kate is friends with Sophie Carter Snuggs but outside of polite convo do they ever discuss personal things? I do think this is an aristo thing.
This was a culture clash plain and simple. In the UK aristo circles non aristos jump through hoops to get into those circles. Yes many do aspire to get into those circles for the same reason many aspire for “titles”. Meghan automatically considered and treated Kate like family whereas in the UK aristos unless you’re blood you can’t do that. You have to pay your dues. It’s wild.
But Kate isn’t an aristo — that was made abundantly clear during the Rose Hanbury mess where Kate tried to block her and failed miserably. The *real* aristos circled their wagons against her and got on with their aristo lives without her. Kate made the fateful mistake of thinking that an upper middle-class girl could insert herself into the turnip toff world automatically because she was married to the FFK and had a Duchess title. Turned out she was wrong.
JMoney, so if there is a cultural clash with an aristocrat, the aristocrat can be a rude as they want? Very interesting dynamic.
Basically, yes. That’s the whole deal with the aristo set and the cause of the unhealthy classist society the UK is as a whole. It’s hidden away and unacknowledged much more nowadays but it still exists and is ruthless if you come up against it in any personal capacity.
The social/family pedigree/hierarchy thing is absolutely sacrosanct as far as they are concerned. That’s why Harry will be forever hated and reviled by all those born into the inner circle. As far as they are concerned he could have murdered someone, in broad daylight, in Trafalgar Square, and still be thought better of than (in their view) betraying his tribe.
Rose as a ‘born in’ will always unofficially outrank Kate as a ‘married in’ as far as the old money/titled families are concerned. Kate will most certainly be mocked by many of them in private. None of this would ever surface officially of course, officially the proximity of title to the throne is what counts and deferred to. But unofficially if you’re not born into the system you are always going to be ‘less than’ as far as the insiders are concerned. The levels of ‘outsiderness’ and ‘lesser than’ is the dynamic between Kate and Meghan as far as Kate is concerned. Meghan was probably oblivious to any of this nuance because she’s basically normal and, like most of us, wouldn’t see the world and potential relationships through these antiquated class/rank filters.
However it’s all just as real as it was when it was blatant and overt in previous centuries. It just all goes on behind the scenes now. The dynamic appears again and again in literature. Read any Jane Austen or Anthony Trollope novel and the dynamic is woven through practically every plot line. Americans had their version of it too as explored wonderfully in The House of Mirth and The Great Gatsby.
There are whole layers of disturbing class/race/cultural/rank subtexts in the conversations & interactions described above.
Considering this was about something KATE forgot, Meghan could have just said “Sorry you didn’t bother to write it down, but I am not surprised, because you are a condescending ice queen.”
“Baby brain” was Meghan being nicer than I would have frankly. We know how Kate was behaving at this stage of the wedding planning.
Exactly! Meg tried to excuse her mistake (not innocent I would assume…) and they still used it against her. She must really love H, I would be out of the door it my future in-laws were treating me this way with a prospect of this happening for the rest of my life.
Exactly this. Meghan provided a polite reason for Kate being a rude bitch. She should have just taken the L and moved on.
Omg, when I hear “summit,” I think conferences on the global economy or climate change, not “you didn’t get me a present” and “you said the word hormones.”
Between this and the “Sandringham summit”, it feels like every meeting in this family is full of strangers airing their grievances to each other. Very “Real World”, very dysfunctional.
I love all those dumb tabloid reports about how they’re ‘blindsided’, ‘gobsmacked’, and holding ‘urgent crisis talks’ about some trivial bullshit or other.
So did W&K read that H&M swapped name places at Pippa’s wedding and believed it? Or did someone else spread that rumor? Or did they try to gaslight H&M into believing they had done so?
equality, they were gaslighting. They knew exactly where H&M were seated at Pippa’s reception.
Was there any mention that W&K had given Harry and Meghan Easter gifts at the time? Just wondering if there had been a gift exchange expectation from W&K? Or did they just expect H&M to bring them gifts?
How did it play out? H&M received these amazing gifts. Followed by the awkward moment H&M realize “oh Easter gifts is a thing? Well our presence is our present!”
My guess would be that W&K did not give anything to H&M or they wouldn’t have been so baffled by the topic being brought up in their “summit”. He also says that he and Will had never exchanged Easter gifts.
For W&K gifts are tribute because they’re higher in rank, so there’s no reciprocation. I believe that they really felt this way.
I am sure that if Meghan got unexpected gifts from W & K she would have done everything possible to reciprocate.
Yes, but what l said is WK would not have reciprocated because they felt it was their due as being higher in rank to receive and not give. We all know that Meghan is a generous soul who is a giver.
I’m agreeing with you. I think it’s obvious that W & K did not get Easter gifts for H & M, because there’s no way Meghan wouldn’t have reciprocated.
Meg was probably just grasping at any subject to discuss with Kate. Kate has no interests that I’m aware of, apart from clothes, kids and getting the crown. Meg was probably just trying to find common ground re: their interest in fashion, and Kate predictably took it the wrong way. No wonder she has no friends sheeesh
This just shows how much of a good person Meghan is. William and Kate had to make up the most stupid things to be upset about – they had nothing of substance to hold against her.
I have two theories that have been mentioned in this thread and in other comments before:
1. William had a thing for Meghan. He was attracted to her and was incandescant with rage that his younger brother, THE SPARE, could land this woman.
2. Kate hates how much Harry loves Meghan – she hates their love for each other and their happiness. Even on their best day William never loved her like this. She knows. And she knew, that he cheated on her when she was pregnant with Louis. Kate didn’t have the guts to go after William, so she channeled her anger against the soon-to-be-married-couple and esp. after Meghan.
I think you’re on to something here. On top of the layers of William treating Harry as the spare like he did their whole life. And racism.
These are the only things I can figure with how Kate treated meghan.
I believe these are both true, and I’ll add this:
Willy was attracted to Meghan and very Frollo about it. He saw her as beneath him, as someone he should not want, and therefore got even nuttier than he otherwise would have been.
And Kate’s wanted Harry since day 1. She was jealous specifically because of Harry, as well as because of what you said.
UK Public school boys are so sexually repressed so it’s possible that William had a crush on Meghan and was slightly star-struck, however when he finally met her she did not bow and scrape to him as he’d expected – one of the few perks of his position is the adulation and we’ve seen W&K value that above building a warm relationship with a new in-law.
Also don’t forget that William had been brought up to believe that he always entitled to the best of everything and that Harry second best. By 2016/17 Kate were 6-ish years into their marriage and the 7 year itch had already come early from what we now know.
So Meghan was literally appearing at the wrong place at the wrong time with a notoriously dysfunctional family.
Sadly both Will and Kate projected their dysfunction onto Meghan in the same way that the family as a whole had always projected their dysfunctions onto Harry historically.
So whilst Harry had worked out his ‘stuff’ he was still marinating in the same family that created all that ‘stuff’ and naturally in order to ‘thrive’ as Meghan put it in SA – they both needed to leave.
And whilst I understand Harry and Meghan’s hurt by this rejection, they need to stick to their guns and not look back, not expect an apology etc etc. In fact it’s their ambivalence that is making their pain worse and Archie and Lili will soon pick up on that.
There might have been some “what the hell is wrong with my crush that she’s attracted to HARRY?!? Ew!” type of emotional reasoning going on. If Harry’s worthless then she’s obviously after something. Just layers and layers of cognitive biases.
Nothing says how welcoming you are to your sister in law by saying ‘we are not close enough to’
And first visit only then whilst they were neighbours at KP?
You know who always assume the worst of everyone and assumes every comment was a covert insult? This who have the worse intentions and whose comments are always a covert insult.
Kate just comes off as a mean girl who assumes everyone is as nasty as she is.
People are seriously by justifying this crap as “cultural differences”? Um, white knuckling in rage and demanding an apology over “baby brain” is next level rage issues.
There’s no working with someone who reacts like that. Kate is unwell. As I’ve said here since the bike incident, she eggs Bill on in his rage. They bully people together.
Billy wagging his finger in Meghan’s face was a challenge to Harry to pick William and Kate over Meghan. There’s no way a spouse can let that go by without choosing a side. Disgusting behavior and I am just stunned by the people defending it.
I didn’t realize aristos had no manners. So yeah, cultural differences, the “royal” family look like a bunch of inbred idiots who throw things at staff and bully black people. If that’s the “cultural difference”, they’d better own that every person in UK supports this behavior with their taxes.
I cannot believe people can justify this. It says so much about racism and anti American bias. Today is the last day I will ever cringe at being identified as an American in Britain. The next time anyone makes a comment about Americans I’m going to grab a piece of furniture in rage and tell them we aren’t close enough for them to discuss my birthplace.
Fingersnaps and claps for this! Yes yes yes. Being a Canadian in Britain, holding dual nationality, and being a fierce defender of a not-insignificant anti-American bias in the UK, I completely support this 😀
These unelected people are funded by my taxes.
I’ll just sit in my tiny flat, unable to put my heating on, knowing that at least I can safely say I’ve never put a finger in someone’s face or showed white-knuckle rage at an innocuous comment.
Finger snaps back at you! To go from Canada to Britain is something else, too, I’d imagine, as my trips to Canada always left a positive impression on me.
I hope you can stay warm, the cost of heating in Britain is terrifying right now.
Cultural differences, my a$$. That’s extremely rude and aggressive across the board. As an American, if you put your finger in my face you’ll lose it.
So Kate objected to Meghan gently brushing away her forgetting something? I don’t get it, did she want Meghan to laugh and call her stupid?
When anyone mentioned my hormones when I was pregnant, I did consider that extremely rude but I don’t think Meghan said whatever she said out of malice.
Also, the lip gloss thing, like, I’m an American and no, I’m with Kate on that.
But the Easter baskets thing. lololol. These are people in their 40s! William is so petty.
Lip gloss thing. Perhaps Kate was the last person she wanted to ask or even ask anyone, but obviously she was in a bind. It like asking a stranger for tampon and cringing the whole time
Yeah, and I’ve commented this before – Kate’s favorite lip gloss is the Clarins one where you can squeeze a dollop onto your finger and your finger doesn’t have to touch the applicator or anything of the sort.
No, because you NEED a tampon, but you don’t NEED lip gloss. 67% of the world’s populace has the herpes virus, and it can be spread that easily. I don’t let anyone touch my lip products, nope.
Nikki, Actually, I NEED lip gloss. My lips get dry to the point of being painful. This is not a stranger she was asking. This was HARRY ‘S sister-in-law! She was HARRY ‘S family for years now and about to become hers. It should have been better than asking a stranger. It’s just because she took her royalness so seriously! How are we now to believe that she can feel anything for strangers? Much less want any good outcome for said stranger? Please, it was just a tube of paste. Plus I am sure Meghan did not want to catch anything from her either. Or do you believe ‘it’ just flow in one direction?
Well it was before a public event and unlike Kate, Meghan actually had a job before marriage, one that entailed knowing how to be hygienic around a great deal of shared tools, so the prissiness here makes no sense, and again, I highly doubt there was any unsanitary contact at all. And as Caribbean said, all the excuses for Kate ignore that Meghan could possibly have caught something from her instead of vice versa.
We know why she grimaced. Come on.
One way to avoid getting herpes from shared lip gloss was to just let Meghan keep it. But Kate didn’t do that. So it really was never her issue. She’s just a bitch. I don’t know how many more stories we need to confirm this.
I thought I was the only one in the universe, but for a woman who’s never had a kid to tell a new mom “It’s just baby brain”…Them’s fightin’ words!
No, they’re not, especially as Meghan had several close friends with babies. I had so many people comment on baby brain to me while I was pregnant and post partum. They’re not fighting works. They might be more annoying to some people than others, but fighting words? Hardly.
Oh why oh why couldn’t it have been me that willy put his finger in my face? That incandescent B would be looking for what remained of it all now .As for Kate, girl is a straight up Regina George.
And let’s be honest here, willy was and is still mad because Harry goe what he couldn’t, a beautiful black American actress who has Brains . Meghan paid him dust and he expected her tp want him instead of harry because he thinks as the heir , everything should always be his first . Kate on the other hand hated Meghan because she got harry ans kate has been lusting after harry forever and he also paid her dust. I agree with you Kaiser, I wish Harry had ended his book with a line along the words of , when I look back at It after being removed from my brother and his wife , I now see clearly that they were never well meaning or accepting or welcoming towards her . Those two deserves to be totally called out for being so trash towards Meghan from the get go
For the Americans who say they wouldn’t have said baby brain, where are you from exactly? I am from NY and lived in NC too (now live in Canada) and I absolutely could see my mother or myself saying this to pregnant strangers, much less friends. It is just that sympathy comment we Americans love to throw around. Americans love to give good natured advice, help, sympathy. She was probably saying it in the context, I have had pregnant friends before, I understand.
Yeah, the American tendency to give kind and unasked for advice/sympathy etc. can be kind of irritating, I know, and I say this as an American who finds herself doing it a lot! Though better to be “too” sympathetic than cold. It doesn’t excuse Will and Kate’s reaction at all. Besides, didn’t Kate try to give Meghan unasked for help with the fashion contacts?
@Emily_C Wasn’t that kind of rude to assume that Meghan had no fashion contacts from being an actress for 7 years on a hit show and then being miffed she didn’t need them?? Kate sounds out of touch in general.
It is a reality based on actual theory.
Kkkhate and Baldy can’t even hide their true feelings.
Racism is one hell of a drug!
All this British v American stuff and ‘you talked about my hormones’ is so f**king annoying. Newsflash! People sit next to their partners at weddings etc all around the world. It’s not geographical, it’s classist. It’s more and more of the utter snobbery on display.
“You don’t know me well enough to talk about my hormones”? Honey, I bet none of your “friends” talk to you about hormones. In my world, baby brain is acknowledged for exactly what it is – reality for 99% of women who give birth. And most of the time it’s given and taken in the good humour it should be.
And the piece de resistance “It’s not what’s done here in Britain” oh F**K OFF! I can’t believe anyone would say that with a straight face. It’s not done here in Britain? Sounds like the perfect reason to keep doing it. You know what not done in civilised society? Sticking your toxic, up-yourself finger in someone’s face.
I guess that the most frustrating bit for me. The raw snobbery, the entitlement.
Feebee, ITA, and isn’t this a great look of Fails & Wails for the rest of the world to see? The sad thing is, I doubt they even realize that.
This was racism. In Kate and William’s eyes, Meghan was being presumptuous — uppity — and needed to be cut down to size.
Meghan — who has more innate dignity than Kate, William, Charles and Camilla have combined — was admirably restrained in response to William’s finger in her face. But then women of color always have to show restraint.
On a lighter note, I LOL’d at this: “the walnut bookshelves lined with color-coordinated volumes.”
It reminded me of “Anchorman”: “I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.”
And we know those two didn’t read any of those books.
And this is what happens when “commoner Kate” marries a royal, she overcompensates and becomes more entitled, more snooty, more snobbish, more sensitive and requires more deference than a blood royal. Like her sht doesn’t stink..I used to have just a smidgen of sympathy for her but no more. Reading the book has opened my eyes to the rarified bubble these people share.
So the early years “expert” thinks it’s crass to discuss what new moms experience. Khate is such an entitled, racist, narcissistic POS
Of course her comment was sympathetic. Obviously. But people with chips on their shoulders only see the insult, not the possible good of a comment.
Speaking of “Easter gifts,” I think H&M for this upcoming Easter should send w&k the following gifts: 1. A DVD of the Harry & Meghan documentary and 2. A copy of the book “Spare.” (since, ya know, they’ve claimed (roll’n my eyes) they haven’t watched the doc or read the book.) LOL!
I could see K trying to try to project her perceived superiority to M and saying something out of the blue like “just so you know I’m not sharing my fashion contacts with you” and M was probably like okay? I’ve got my own thanks. Because K just wanted her to beg for them and when she didn’t she didn’t get the moment she wanted
I am going to give Kate a whole lot of grace here. I am so grateful my family understood, but i definitely had to repair a bit with one of my in laws for blowing some stuff out of proportion. now we are good but it did cause some sore feelings.
Give the postpartum people a wide berth, and a lot of grace. I took everything so personally in that period. I cried a lot. My hormones really messed with my perception of reality.
I give Meg a pass too as she i am sure meant it sympathetically.
And yet William and Kate still bullied her while pregnant to the point of suicidal ideation, so where was the concern for hormones there?
J, but this discussion took place a few months after this comment. If it was something said at the time or a day immediately following, I would understand. Did you hold grudges for months for comments said to you?
Yeah, it’s weird. I gotta say, I’d be annoyed if someone said I had baby brain, even if I’d forgotten something. It’s patronizing. But I wouldn’t seethe about it, for days/weeks/months, and I’d never say anything! Do these people never just, I don’t know, suck it up and move on? Must every slight and grievance be acknowledged and atoned for? Geez, what a life.
Kate was not pregnant or post pregnancy when she.mean girled Meghan like her confrontational looks at Meghan on that walkabout. And she was not weepy when she let the fake story about Meghan stay in the media.
Imagine trying to have an adult conversation when only half of those present are actually adults. That’s this conversation.
If she thinks it’s too intrusive for her sister in law to mention her postpartum hormones, how would she ever survive if she realized that people were talking about how she must be wearing the giant keyboard-sized pads they give you just after birth when she was trotted out at the hospital?
I couldn’t find a ‘cultural differences’ post where this story fits so here goes. I often traveled to Toronto from western New York state at one point in my life. Usually dropping off and picking up my parents from the airport as they could get direct flights easier there. I would make 2 stops. One to get good Cadbury chocolate, especially wunderbars! The second to bookstores where I would fatten my collection of P.G. Wodehouse , Elizabeth Goudge, and Farley Mowat books. On one trip, the store’s computer showed that they had the Mowat book I was looking for and it was on sale. I was very excited (this was pre Amazon). The clerk was very Eeyore-like about it and so was the next clerk she handed me off to. I tried to get them pumped up about it with me, but they were all Oh no, the computer is never right, it’s probably gone, etc. etc. But it was there! They actually had 2 of them! And it really made me laugh but I got it in that moment – that being so positive was a cultural difference. At least in that store 🤣
JanetDR, I love Farley Mowat!!!! I’ve read most of what he wrote. Soooooo good.
They all come of as spoiled, petty brats. All of them.
– Your flat is fancier! All we got are lamps from IKEA!
– But you didn’t give us any Easter gift!
– And you switched seats at our wedding!
– You did too!!!
– We did not!!! But we wanted to! And the lip gloss! Remember the lip gloss? You flinched!
Most of it is so ridiculous. The “baby brain” comment would be totally out of line in my social bubble. I don’t care how well you mean it. This is one of the things you only think and don’t say to people, unless they bring it up themselves. But waging WW3 because of it is another extreme. They’re all hung up on the pettiest things, it’s laughable.
Both sides arguments are always used by the side covering for racists and misogynists.
William and Kate still let a false story be used to attack Meghan in the media and didn’t bother to correct it even knowing she was suicidal. That’s not petty but down right evil.
Meghan using the term baby brain to excuse kate doing something ignorant like forgetting a rehearsal was already covering for Kate. But yeah sure, that’s the same as a smear campaign causing mental distress to your pregnant sister in law.
Sigh. I agree with Nic about the “both sides” here but also, about the fancy flat – W&K’s home wasn’t just a little bit fancier than H&M’s. It cost MILLIONS more than theirs did by the time the “extensive renovations” were done and the decor, and they had another home in Norfolk that had had similar renovations and decor. Harry had to call his grandmother and beg for a bigger home before the baby was born.
It’s not about what is the normal for other families, its about the specific dynamic in THIS family and the specific dynamic is that Harry (and Meghan) were treated as the least important and were not supported financially the way the other family members were, and THEN the family had the gall to be surprised and shocked when H&M left and have spent the past three years bullying them for it.
For me, there’s a major theme of control. The BRF is under a lot of control. To remove their freedoms comes with the pay off of a lavish lifestyle. However, it seems abusers have control of the money. You aren’t allowed to go earn your own, but your father inlaw can dictate your living arrangements be squalor compared to your older brother to male a point? M and H’s story seems to be about gaining control over their lived and the narrative about their lives. They asked for a little bit more control and were denied so they left and got the ability to have full autonomy. Whether they get it right or wrong, autonomy is the point here.
Meghan thought she would be welcome and was sincere. Kate and will decided not to like her and behaved in a snobby way. Kate not liking the comment does not excuse her behaving like a prima Donna right before the Sussex wedding and letting a fake story about Meghan stay in the media.
I don’t see any mention that the Cambridge’s gave Harry & Meghan Easter gifts, & I’m surprised that H accepts the rebuke & apologises instead of saying “We didn’t receive any from you so didn’t think about it because it’s never been done before”. I haven’t read the book, but it’s beginning to sound as though he has not been well treated, or respected, for much of his life.
Most English people will say there is no such tradition of Easter gifts for adults. This is William and Kate being awful people and gaslighting.
What surprises me is how utterly provincial Kate and William are.
Easter presents?! That is so petty. Kate comes off like such a Karen in the book.