Kelly Clarkson is the closest thing we have to an “America’s Sweetheart” on daytime television. People love her, she’s authentic, funny and relatable. The Kelly Clarkson Show has picked up viewers at a steady clip, and Kelly is absolutely seen as the daytime heiress to Ellen DeGeneres. And much like Ellen’s show, Kelly’s show is apparently a hellish work environment. Rolling Stone did an exclusive story about how staffers are leaving in droves and collapsing under the stressful conditions on the Kelly Clarkson Show. The staffers take pains to say that Kelly is lovely and likely has no idea what’s going on, but her executive producers and showrunner Alex Duda have created a massively toxic work environment, especially for low-level staff. Some highlights:
A traumatic environment: Behind the scenes, employees say they were overworked, underpaid, and that working at the show was traumatizing to their mental health, describing The Kelly Clarkson Show as a toxic environment. These employees are veterans in the entertainment industry who know the potential downsides of working in a high-pressure environment like daytime television, and are disappointed to see this culture perpetuated on a show that had a chance to make a difference in the industry. One current and 10 former employees spoke to Rolling Stone under the condition of anonymity out of fear of retribution, and say they’re confident the talk-show host doesn’t have a sense of how unhappy employees are with the working conditions.
Unhappy staff: “NBC is protecting the show because it’s their new money maker, but Kelly has no clue how unhappy her staff is,” one former employee says. A second former employee adds, “I remember going up on the roof of the stage to cry, being like, ‘Oh, my gosh, what am I doing? Why am I putting myself through this?’”
The problem with executive producer and showrunner Alex Duda: Former employees say the toxic behavior behind the scenes starts with Duda, who shields Clarkson from what staffers say they’re enduring because of the climate Duda created. “I think Alex Duda’s a monster,” a former employee says. “I have a friend who’s an executive producer who warned me about taking this job, because apparently she has done this on every show she’s worked on.”
Favoritism & bad pay: As for Clarkson, the current employee as well as 10 former employees are under the impression she isn’t aware of how bad things are for lower-level staffers, some of whom say they’ve taken on other jobs as babysitters, dog walkers, and Uber Eats drivers to pay their bills. They say there’s a divide behind the scenes between staffers who are favored by executive and senior producers and those who aren’t. Former employees are also frustrated that there hasn’t been a shift in the culture at the show despite a number of HR complaints, and they worry the longer the behavior continues without repercussions, the worse it will get as the seasons go on.
Again, most people believe Kelly has no idea: “Kelly is fantastic. She is a person who never treats anyone with anything but dignity and is incredibly appreciative,” one former employee says. “I would be shocked if she knew. I’d be floored if she knew the staff wasn’t getting paid for two weeks of Christmas hiatus. The Kelly that I interacted with and that everyone knows would probably be pretty aghast to learn that.”
Unless Clarkson has been successfully obscuring her “real” personality for decades, I also think Kelly would probably be aghast to hear that her staffers are so unhappy and traumatized. But that’s an issue too – it’s Clarkson’s name on the show, and Clarkson is an executive producer too. While I buy that she didn’t know, you could easily argue that she should have known well before Rolling Stone published this piece.
NBC Universal released a statement, which you can read here. Pretty unconvincing, given that one of the main arguments in the RS piece is that multiple people complained to HR about how producers treated low-level staff, only for HR to do nothing and then those problematic producers got promoted. NBC’s reaction comes off as boilerplate at best. Kelly also responded on her social media (given the show isn’t currently taping because of the writers’ strike). I appreciate that Kelly is at least taking some ownership and promising to undergo leadership training alongside her producers. It will be interesting to see if Alex Duda stays on.
— Kelly Clarkson 🍷💔☀️ (@kellyclarkson) May 13, 2023
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Alex needs to go. And Kelly needs to spend more time interacting with all of the staff.
I find it hard to believe that Kelly’s office wasn’t called for comment by Rolling Stone. When your show’s environment rises to the level of an expose, you can’t pretend ignorance. Unless her PR reps hid this from her (fire them), she must have known this story was coming out.
Sometimes gentle personalities have trouble being the “bad guy” so they allow someone else do the dirty work without keeping them in check because they get results. She may have had no idea how bad it was but I’m sure there were signs if she was paying more attention.
Right?? I have a hard time believing that she had no idea. Unless staffers were literally forbidden from speaking with Clarkson, which in itself should have been a huge red flag, I don’t see how Clarkson could have just been blissfully ignorant that a huge chunk of her staff was utterly miserable.
Yeah, I have to agree. She may not have known, but as she says in her statement on Twitter, she “has always been… committed to maintaining a safe and healthy work environment.”
You can’t be genuinely committed to maintaining any kind of work environment, and also not have any idea what kind of work environment has actually developed. If you’re committed to maintaining a safe and healthy work environment, you need to actively be involved in creating it.
So if she’s genuinely ignorant about what’s being going on, it can only be because she isn’t involved in her employees’ work environment at all. In which case she needs to just own that, apologize, and *begin* being genuinely involved and committed to creating a safe environment going forward.
But you can’t claim you’ve always been committed to fostering a healthy environment yet have no idea it’s actually a toxic one. Because the latter shows there was no commitment whatsoever.
My guess is Kelly has a lot on her plate between a nasty divorce, and two high profile gigs with her show and The Voice. She probably wasn’t paying attention and left it to her producers.
But her name is on the show and the buck ultimately stops with her. She needs to get more engaged with the day to day.
Agree!! Though her divorce has been at a level that must be emotionally and physically exhausting. Her ex is in another level of vile.
As for the statement put out by NBC, I agree with Kaiser that it is not convincing nor is it dealing with the allegations as well. IF NBC actually cared about the RS article and the allegations, they should act in it and not claim that it’s all lies. We have seen this play out before and the news agency always knew.
The thing I still don’t understand. Aren’t everyone working behind the scenes union? Why aren’t the union reps getting involved?
I thought the same thing. She does this daily show, the Voice, she has a Vegas residency, plus children and a contentious divorce. She also sings on every show I think, which requires rehearsal. I absolutely could see her being whisked in and out and not seeing the day to day issues, but as you said, ultimately it’s her show and now that she knows, she needs to step up and take care of it.
She seems like a pretty decent person and I don’t think I’ve heard a bad word about her, so hopefully she does right by everyone here.
If Kelly Clarkson truly cares about being a leader on her own show, then she will have to deal with the reality that Alex Duda either needs to be fired or, if her contract would make that too much of a legal nightmare, have an overseer whose sole job it is to keep Duda in check. Ridiculous, but we are talking about NBC here, they are not exactly known for dealing with these kinds of workplace issues until they are publicly outed and forced to.
Unfortunately sometimes people hire a woman and assume she’d be gentler and kinder. But a$$h*lery doesn’t discriminate.
It doesn’t sound like “leadership training” will help Duda since one staffer called him a monster. But, yeah, if she doesn’t have time to interact with lower level staffers directly, then she needs to make time. That would probably be the first and main point in “leadership training”.
Perhaps the “leadership training” is at least partly for Kelly — to learn what being a “leader” actually means? I don’t know anything about her beyond her history as a singer starting with her American Idol days, but I wonder if she has no idea how to “lead” because she’s never been a part of the kind of organizations where you move up the ranks and learn about how organizations function— both well and poorly— through both experience and mentoring, as well as formal training.
Is it normal for the “name” / talent to get an executive producer credit — regardless of their actual role and experience— to help cement their commitment to the show? Reading through this, I wonder who’s advising Kelly, if she genuinely has an understanding of the scope of her “executive producer role”, and if her sense of how organizations function has been influenced by her problematic ex-husband rather than by more positive mentorship and actual experience. This sounds like an appalling situation. I hope Clarkson can actually use what clout she has to create a less toxic environment that safeguards the staff and can get rid of — or at least sideline Duda — if they’re the primary source of the problems.
It is standard practice that the host of a talk show also has an EP credit as well.
@Dutch Thanks for this info. That makes it easier — for me, at least — to get how situations like this could come about and continue to fester, especially if Kelly has been focused on learning to develop her skills in her role as a host.
Yeah, “leadership training” may well help Kelly, but it won’t do anything for Duda, who sounds like a nightmare. It’s sort of like why it can be dangerous to do counseling with an abuser–it can give the abuser more skills to cover up or justify their behavior.
Part of leadership training is how to fire someone.
How does Kelly not know what’s going on her own show? Is it that she just turns up to host the show?
That’s my question. I think she has heard the rumors. It’s like at places I have worked – staff is unhappy and higher ups (we are told) don’t know. Makes no sense to me. How can people at the top not be aware? Plus, it’s her name on the show. She should make the environment her priority. Especially in this day and age.
Her attentions are split between this show, the Voice and her family life. She probably doesn’t interact with every single staffer on the show and you’d think the showrunner makes sure that only her favorites get the face time or sit in on on the production meetings with Kelly. Between the time constrains and the showrunner Kelly is pretty heavily siloed at her own show.
I’ve never understood the claims of not knowing. Unless Kelly only meets with senior producers, how could she not know that so many people are unhappy?
Its possible. Organizations are hierarchical, so she may on!y meet with senior leadership and it takes Calif for lower level employees to decide to skip a level and raise an issue, especially if they have limited interaction. If Kelly’s prior experience has been as talent and not as manager/leader she may be used to being in a bubble, where no problems get raised to the her because other people handle it. That’s not a condemnation of Kelly, just recognizing she may not have the experience to know there’s a problem.
But she probably does only meet with senior producers. At least that would be true in the corporate world. If you are a junior employee you are lucky if the boss knows your name and what you do. I spent almost twenty years supporting VP’s and C-suite executives as their exec assistant and I only ever had one boss that took the time to meet with every person on their team 1×1, and only one that bothered to meet their managers two levels down. There just isn’t time.
She would certainly know the pay grades and what the cost of living is in Los Angeles. That is a decision. She is being portrayed as a child here. The fact that she’s nice in person is a step up from Ellen but the excuses are the the same. It takes two to make an abusive environment. The one who creates it and the one who looks the other way. She needs to clean shop and take charge. She knows how to do that.
One of the issues, which is being brought up in the writer’s strike, is the issue of weekly pay versus number of weeks worked. So she may be seeing a generous weekly pay rate, but if you are getting paid for 25 weeks a year instead of 40, it makes a big difference in whether a job pays a livable salary.
I seem to remember reading here that Kelly’s show shot a lot of shows back to back, so she could spend time with her family at their ranch house. That would mean fewer working weeks for her staff. I can totally see no one pointing that out to her.
This is disappointing news. I’m glad people are taking the time to explain that they do not believe she herself is cruel (unlike Ellen) but that she’s been unaware of what’s happening. She possibly should have been more aware, though. Now that Kelly knows what’s going on, I hope she works very quickly to fix the problems.
I love the white washing Kelly is getting, it’s her show, is she just picking up a pay check before going to her next gig.
Her manager was married, then the next thing he was married to her.
It’s hard to believe Kelly hasn’t noticed that her show/set is an unhappy place. Such tensions are usually very obvious if one pays the slightest attention to what’s going on at the workplace.
I can’t imagine she’s there very much, and I’d bet the lower level employees were told not to bother her with anything. People who make life miserable for others are sometimes very good at shielding all of that from the person who could fire them.
I’m not surprised by this at all. The whole industry needs a complete overhaul. Based on what I remember from my experiences working on shows in the 90s and 00s, this sounds like most productions. The people calling the shots were often toxic and demanding in a Miranda Priestley way. There was almost an IATSE strike a couple of years ago because the working conditions were so outrageous and dangerous. Toxic is the default atmosphere on a set.
I appreciate your input as it shows that these work conditions are problematic all across the board. These type of treatment are obviously still an issue and and the toxicity is unacceptable in every industry.
I feel so bad for what you went through and those that are still experiencing this horrific abuse.
Thanks, BothSidesNow! There were many factors that contributed to my leaving the industry and all of them had to do with the toxic expectations. In addition to pretty much always having some type of abusive treatment – everyone below the line was very aware they were disposable. No matter what was happening in your life, you had to be at work. Power through it or be replaced.
At least when I was working on sets, we had some measures in place for protection. Things like a minimum turn-around between days or meal penalties if shooting didn’t stop for lunch. By the time IATSE decided to strike, those measures were all being abused. It’s always even worse for the non-union employees like PAs.
Whether Kelly was aware of the specifics on her show, there is no way she isn’t aware that is the norm. It’s the rare production where people are not being treated poorly in some capacity.
I have heard that most of the online chef shows are also very difficult places to work. Rachel Ray had a terrible reputation. In general, places are toxic if they promote a “family atmosphere” often meaning long hours and low pay. Except at the top, of course.
This seems to be almost an ongoing story about “nice” talk show hosts that are toxic or have toxic things happening behind the scenes. First, there was Rosie then Ellen and now Kelly? Is there a common denominator between these besides the host having a reputation as super nice that may or may not be entirely true? I would include James Cordon here but he has always had a reputation as being fake and an ass off camera
Reading your comment, I’m wondering if one common element is that women get blamed for things that men don’t, and also have the expectation to be “nice”. I’m struck by your list of women with toxic workplaces — when most hosts, historically and currently have been men. It’s hard for me to imagine that there are so many female-helmed shows with toxic workspaces, with apparently little mention of the men. Are all the men genuine “nice”? Or are the expectations different? Or are the pathways to fronting a show different?
Oprah comes to mind as someone who genuinely worked her way up the ranks. I’m wondering if people with this type of career trajectory are — at least potentially— able to create more positive work cultures— because they have more actual experiences with how work cultures actually work? (I’m not making assumptions about specific work cultures, as much as wondering what, if any, training and experience some of the people who nominally head their shows might actually have.)
It’s possibly only a story because Kelly Clarkson is so “nice” and possibly doesn’t have as much protection as the men in Hollywood who’ve run rampant as demanding assholes since the beginning?
Pay issues won’t be addressed in leadership training. I like the parts of Kelly Clarkson we’re shown but an overworked and underpaid staff is a huge problem. Don’t put your name on something for a multimillion dollar contract without the control to make sure people aren’t being treated like shit.
Get rid of the hierarchy system, or hire nice people. IDK.
I’m really tired of people being assholian bosses! These people need to be kicked out! In my opinion psychopaths and sociopaths should be separated from normal people in kindergarten, and they should never be allowed to be anybody’s boss, or have any government job.
Add people who suck up and screw down – Duda sounds like one of those. A pox on the houses of people like her.
OK, to be fair, a kid who is acting like a bully in kindergarten isn’t necessarily a psychopath. Sometimes they are mimicking behavior they see at home, or have undiagnosed issues that can be effectively treated with medication, therapy, guidance and discipline.
I am not at all comfortable with the idea of pigeon-holing 5-year-olds as monsters and banishing them to the “Pschyo Class” from the get-go. That’s unfair and traumatizing to both the kids and the parents. No, the behavior shouldn’t be tolerated but there are ways of dealing with it short of ostracizing them. I think that might just make it worse.
And I want to add that I’m also sick of “stars” getting a hundred million salary while worker ants who actually build the show or the product or whatever still get the ridiculous minimum wage. Everyone in the show/factory makes it successful, not just three people on the top.
That’s a good point and it’s another issue where if Kelly were being a GOOD boss, she would know this and ask questions about it.
But I’ve also worked with some real losers who have changed timesheets to make it look like someone wasn’t working 18 hours when they did.
As another who has worked inside this industry for years, I’m willing to bet it’s not her because my good friend worked on several of her music videos that shot for comparatively long stretches and she was nice and the set was just fine. I have a different friend who still works for a long running tv show who cries a lot and has ended up in therapy over the abuse, so it is pervasive and certain types of projects tend to attract bigger a holes (avoid reality TV, try to work with top level talent in shows protected by your union).
That said, there’s an issue with people at the top being so insulated that no one can tell them or speak to them about the environment, and for that Kelly is responsible.
There have been some films I’ve worked on though where none of that was happening. So it can be done and I suspect that comes from good leadership at the top. Kelly absolutely needs leadership training. She can’t cede power to others if she wants a good environment.
So true!
I’m in a different union than you mentioned, but SOLIDARITY.
My union protected me from a lot of abuse, but if you speak up about certain kinds of behavior from certain kinds of powerful people you get blackballed and your union won’t help you. It even happened to big stars. The rule is shut up and smile and say everything is great.
All to help some faceless corporate giant make big bucks! No thanks.
WiththeAmerican – SOLIDARITY.
I get really pissed when I hear about people having FULL TIME jobs having to make ends meet by driving for Door Dash or Uber Eats, etc. This is completely unacceptable.
Are they trying to tell us Kelly had NO IDEA what people are earning working on her show? I don’t buy it for a second.
I am so sick of this level of greed.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – money is wasted on the rich. No one who has ever worked for me made starvation wages – everyone from landscaping (when I had a house now I have a condo in another state) to the person in charge of walking my dog when I was out of the country made enough money to pay their rent/bills on me alone. And I am not Kelly rich (yet – maybe when the revolution finally comes).
I tired of greed. It’s why I don’t shop at Walmart or have a Tesla or a Twitter account or go to Cirque du Soleil (that and animals as entertainment another grossness for another day). Screw these people. I didn’t watch Kelly before and I sure won’t watch it now.
So totally agree with you.
I agree with you. I hate it when people don’t tip, or underpay workers. I mean, my dog-walker didn’t make enough from me alone to pay all of her bills. It wasn’t a full time job. But I did pay her well for the hours she put in with my dogs, and she was able to make a living working a 40 hour week because ALL of her other clients paid her fairly too.
Do you mind if I ask what your issue with Cirque du Soleil is? Is it the animals? Personally, I don’t care for it as entertainment but I didn’t know it was a toxic workplace. Or is it the price of the tickets?
I’m puzzled. For all this talk of an expose of the Kelly Clarkson Show, I haven’t read anything about specific misconduct in the above article. They talked about a staff member’s reaction, like going up on a roof to cry but what were they crying about? They refer to Alex Duda as a “monster” but failed to explain what “monstrous” thing she did. They allude to favoritism but don’t go into enough detail. Is it that people at the same level are treated differently, which is something that can be acted upon, but if it’s like some people get a private office or expense vouchers, somethings go with specific jobs. They also wrote that HR complaints seemed to go on without repercussions. I wonder if they were getting investigated, and if there were rules spelled out.
It feels like The Ellen Show complaints were more specific, even though there were also things like “she wouldn’t talk to me or the little people” and “we weren’t supposed to look her in the eye — which are not nice things, and can be corrected, and definitely lead to hostility or resentment in the workplace, but more frequently than not just lead to people looking for work elsewhere. I also wonder if the no pay during Christmas hiatus thing was a departure from prior years, or violated the staff’s contracts. That seems like something which should have been spelled out at the outset. If not, what happens over the summer months or more extended holidays if people are expecting to be paid and they’re not.
I have no idea what specifics are happening at her show, but what immediately jumped to my mind were typical crew abusive behaviors. Not letting people take a break for lunch, shouting and cursing when something wasn’t perfect, and making day rate workers stay for over 12 hours. Things that are so prevalent in the industry they are taken for granted.
The article goes on to give more specifics. Sounds like lots of yelling/verbal abuse, implied racism, retaliation for bringing up workplace issues to management, and so on. It says many people complained to HR about certain people, and then had to sit and watch while HR did nothing and those same people were promoted.
Thanks for your input. I know nothing about the inner workings of show business but from what I’ve read over the years, I thought these sets were unionized so that there would be someone to advocate for workers in cases where the management was unresponsive. Perhaps the people making complaints were not in a union. Also, I cannot believe in this day and age that employers don’t realize that they must have internal rules in place to deal with retaliation, as well as periodic training on preventing workplace harassment and ensuring a safe workplace, ect. This training should also give workers contact info on who else (outside the company) they can bring their complaints to, those things tend to empower workers and also make management more responsive & document how they handled complaints. It also seems like the response by NBC Universal is not helpful in situations like this. To broadly state that the allegations are “untrue” when you’re told by the staff that nothing has been done doesn’t make them believe you when you insist that you’re fully committed to having a “safe and respectful workplace.”
Thanks, Debbie! The unions are supposed to be another avenue when your employers are not treating you well. Unfortunately, unions have been weakened over the past 20 years or so. When IATSE threatened their strike in 2021, it was for things that were once protected and now producers just add in the extra expense of paying the penalties. I would also hazard a guess that most of the people getting the lion’s share of the abuse are non-union office PAs. The constant threat of “100 people would kill for your spot” creates bad workplace environments all around. It’s a big part of why the writers are striking right now.
The don’t bother the famous person unless it is your specific job description rules are there for a reason. They are there to do a job.
Fan interactions are a part of the job, but require a certain energy. Performers shouldn’t have to deal with co-workers as fans.
This is definitely a case of seeing a rule and knowing that there is a specific reason why. Of course, there is also the case of higher ups using these sorts of rules to micromanage underlings, but that is a different from the rule itself being wrong.
I wonder if Kelly is vulnerable to smart, conniving personalities who convince her that they’re indispensable and great at what they do, so she allows the wrong person(s) to have way too much power and sway. I was that way for awhile, and one power-hungry control freak was very destabilizing and caused me to lose a couple of wonderful people in my organization. (Rather, I caused it by trusting this manager and allowing her so much power and control over things I thought I didn’t want to fool with.) It was excruciating to clean that up, but finally dealing with that person’s manipulative, controlling behaviors was a huge growth step for me. Maybe I’m just projecting my own stuff onto Kelly, but this report plus the way her ex-husband turned out to be have me questioning her judgment. And it’s a pretty common dynamic with anyone who’s vulnerable to manipulation by charming a-holes and then turns over way too much power to them.
I had a friend who was a guitar tech for Kelly’s band in the early 2000s – touring with her etc. – and by his account she was great to work for and very generous to her team. It will be interesting to see how she responds to this.
Hi,
I’m a producer… I don’t work on this show but someone asked -shouldn’t the staff be protected by unions…. yes and no. Not everyone on shows is protected by unions. Segment producers, associate producers, production assistants, talent producers, production managers and coordinators are not protected by a union. So on shows, you get a day rate and in this case, likely a weekly rate which means you don’t have set start and end times….you can be called at all hours of the day even when you’re home, and you’ll be in the office well past the time others have gone home trying to get your segments done, and the productions won’t get penalized if you work through lunch because producers don’t have a union the way the writers, actors, directors, hair, and make-up do. There is the Producer’s Guild but it’s not a union like these other unions are, it’s pretty much just a club. They claim because producers manage money that they can’t unionize the way these other unions can. Low /middle-level producers get screwed with time and money because of this weird rule. They don’t even get overtime. At least with the other unions if the day goes longer for them or they have to work through lunch, they overtime and the penalized pay. A lot of these execs act a different way with talent than they do to staff. And if the staff was complaining to HR and it was going nowhere, I’m sure they would be scared to tell the talent for fear of losing their job and it’s not just losing this job. If word got out they were difficult, they could be blocked from working elsewhere. People talk in Hollywood and you never want to be known as being difficult. It sucks because a lot of these execs coast by because they get the job done and come in on budget but sometimes at the cost of the teams. This happens a lot. I know a lot of companies who are great and have really thought about their teams’ morale, fair pay, etc but let me tell you only a few years ago, it was common to hear from companies… suck it up or someone else will do the same job. Self-care wasn’t a thing.
How does Blimmpy not know? It’s her show — sounds more like she lets someone else do the dirty work for her.
Blimmpy!? What’s with the weight shaming?
Kelly needs to figure out what is happening on her show and get it sorted. It sounds like she has a reputation for being nice, fair and decent to people in the work environment. Unfortunately, she put her trust in the wrong people to run things here and wasn’t involved enough. I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt but she needs to address the problems ASAP.