Whenever some major director criticizes the Marvelization of the film industry, inevitably Marvel-affilated actors come out of the woodwork to publicly defend a soulless corporation’s honor and argue that, actually, Marvel movies are amazing and Disney is the happiest place in the world. Meanwhile, whenever Marvel actors are given free rein to speak about their experiences working on Marvel movies, they’re always like “god, it was horrible, it was the biggest pain in the ass, I hate green screens, it’s not real acting, the process sucks.” So here we are! Sir Anthony Hopkins appeared in the Thor franchise as King Odin and he was recently asked about the experience. He has two Best Actor Oscars and not a lot of patience for this Marvel bullsh-t. Hopkins’ comments appeared in the New Yorker’s piece, “How the Marvel Cinematic Universe Swallowed Hollywood,” which is an interesting (and overwrought) read. These are the parts I wanted to discuss:
It can be dispiriting to see so much acting talent sucked into the quantum realm of the M.C.U., presumably for a tidy sum, but the paychecks alone don’t explain Marvel’s hold over stars. “At some point, you want to be relevant,” an agent who represents several M.C.U. actors said. “Success is the best drug.” This year, Angela Bassett became the first actor to be nominated for an Oscar for a Marvel role, in “Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.” “Well, it’s so modern,” she told me in February. “We try and stay current, and they’ve got a winning formula.”
Entire generations now know Anthony Hopkins not as Hannibal Lecter but as Thor’s dad, King Odin of Asgard. “They put me in armor; they shoved a beard on me,” he told me. “Sit on the throne, shout a bit. If you’re sitting in front of a green screen, it’s pointless acting it.”
The result is a lot of hand-wringing over “the death of the movie star.” In an I.P.-driven ecosystem, individual stars no longer attract audiences to theatres the way they used to, with a handful of exceptions (Tom Cruise, Julia Roberts). You go to a Marvel movie to see Captain America, not Chris Evans. “It’s actually surprising to me how almost none of them have careers outside of the Marvel universe,” another agent said. “The movies don’t work. Look at all the ones Robert Downey, Jr., has tried to do. Look at Tom Holland. It’s been bomb after bomb after bomb.”
Thirty-odd films later, Marvel’s critics (and even some fans) groan at the formula. There’s the climactic C.G.I. slugfest, often pitting a good iron man against a bad iron man, or a good dragon against a bad dragon, or a good witch against a bad witch. There’s the self-referential shtick, the interchangeable villains. There are presumed-dead characters who reappear, as on a soap opera. Most plots boil down to “Keep glowy thing away from bad guy,” and the stakes are nothing less than the fate of the world, which come to feel like no stakes at all.
Hopkins was basically the only actor who went on the record for the New Yorker, but I’ve read enough interviews with Marvel actors to know that he’s not alone. Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Christian Bale, Robert Downey Jr., Elizabeth Olsen, they’ve all admitted (in so many words) that the MCU is pretty soulless and tedious as an acting gig. The point of the New Yorker’s piece wasn’t even like “the MCU is terrible, we should hate everything about it.” No one is saying that – we’re questioning the sustainability of the business model and what the MCU’s dominance means for Hollywood and filmmaking writ large. We’re also questioning why so many actors do these movies, honestly.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images, Instar and Marvel.
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- LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, USA – APRIL 22: Actress Evangeline Lilly arrives at the World Premiere Of Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures and Marvel Studios’ ‘Avengers: Endgame’ held at the Los Angeles Convention Center on April 22, 2019 in Los Angeles, California, United States.,Image: 535895600, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289 – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For querie, Model Release: no, Credit line: Xavier Collin/Image Press Agency / Image Press Agency / Avalon
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- Elizabeth Olsen at the World premiere of ‘Avengers: Endgame’ held at the LA Convention Center in Los Angeles, USA on April 22, 2019.
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- USA/Australia/Canada Rights Only-Los Angeles, CA – 11/4/13-THOR The Dark World Los Angeles Premiere at the El Capitan Theatre on November 4, 2013 in Los Angeles, California. -PICTURED: Anthony Hopkins -PHOTO by: Lionel Hahn/AbacaUSA/startraksphoto.com -ABUSA_10690 Editorial – Rights Managed Image – Please contact www.startraksphoto.com for licensing fee Startraks Photo New York, NY For licensing please call 212-414-9464 or email sales@startraksphoto.com Featuring: Anthony Hopkins Where: Los Angeles, California, United States When: 04 Nov 2013 Credit: Lionel Hahn/AbacaUSA/startraksphoto.com **USA/Australia/Canada Rights Only**
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- 94th Academy Awards (Oscars) – Red Carpet Arrivals Featuring: Sir Anthony Hopkins Where: Los Angeles, California, United States When: 28 Mar 2022 Credit: Abby Grant/Cover Images
My friend and I both do writing on the side, and we talked quite a bit about the shift we’ve seen in movies and even the fandoms that follow them in terms of character appreciation. It used to be you saw a lot of love for characters and story, but a lot of that feels like it’s gone away. Instead, what you have is a formula and lots of tropes. Characters can easily be slotted in and out of storylines because none of them are actually driven by *who* the character is.
And that’s really sad to me because that’s how you create provocative stories, stories that challenge audiences and make them think. We talk about the “Marvel” effect somewhat facetiously at times, but I do legitimately think it had an impact on how the younger generation perceives certain things. Along with the vacuums created by social media, a lot of them just don’t have a tolerance for anything grey or complex. It feels like capitalism struck it’s most brutally efficient blow by finally commodifying the stories we tell each other about what it means to be human.
I’m gonna have to disagree with you here. The reason the MCU did so well and was initially given such a large budget was bc it came with a built in audience. We went to the first installment bc we already loved the characters. It’s not the characters or stories that are interchangeable, it’s the actors like Hopkins said.
The success of the MCU is not surprising to me. I’m talking about the overall impact the storytelling style has had on cinema and viewers. Marvel movies are not particularly complex and have pretty standard formulas. The characters all talk with a kind of quippy dialogue style. The conflicts are mostly variations of each other, with few of the villains being legitimately complex or challenging. You get the occasional Kilmonger, sure, but the heroes always win in the end, are always proven right to some extent. (And Kilmonger is a notable case because his intentions are fundamentally noble. His methods are just brutal, but then the story never asks the audience to question whether brutality has a place when it’s against systemic violence.)
They’re fun, but they’re not deep, and they definitely don’t ask people think or challenge anything really. They never upset the status quo. Civil War is a good example of this. The whole story is a difference in opinion about how and if superheroes should be monitored. Ultimately, it’s ending seems to suggest it’s Iron Man who’s making the wrong move and is acting out of his own guilt and fears, yet the ending actually kind of contradicts it’s own narrative intent because it’s saying superheroes shouldn’t be beholden to governments who might use them…yet we’re also supposed to presume the moral authority of superheroes and never worry about them straying from goodness.
That kind of black and white morality, IMO, can definitely impact viewer perception of things if you’re seeing that same message over and over again, year after year, dominating cinema. You’re never required to actually think about who’s right and wrong. The story just gets handed to you.
@veronica thanks for replying. I understand your point more.
If I were an actor, I would sign up for Marvel immediately. Is it soulless? Yes. Will it back up the Brinks truck to your bank account? Yes.
I would take the check and run for the chance of generational wealth, even if it’s not ***ACTING***
+1 Most people would slog away at any job for the once in a lifetime big cheque, including actors. Who wouldn’t want some security in this world and generational wealth!? I wouldn’t pass it up even if I couldn’t act my way out of a wet paper bag.
Complaining but took those huge paychecks, no?
Get over yourself Tony.
Sam Neil did a great parody of you in Ragnorak.
The article answered the “why” – it’s money and publicity. And it’s about an actor establishing brand loyalty and name recognition as the audiences get older. Young audiences may go to Marvel movies, but their tastes will change as they get older and they’ll still remember the actors the loved tears before.
I think acting against the green screen or fighting an imaginary monster is much harder than crying by a hospital bed in some Oscar drama. Just my personal opinion.
It’s incredibly difficult and not many actors can do it well. It needs a lot of imagination.
Well, ka-ching, right? I mean why else would most of these actors do these movies? I’m not going to criticize them for that.
Back in the 1990s, Marvel comics and especially X-Men, were a breath of fresh air.
Lots of intelligent story telling, often very inclusive especially for its time.
There was a big wave a few years back of Marvel comics launching more comics with women, PoC and LGBTQ+ characters as the title characters.
Unfortunately, a lot of them didn’t sell well. The comics are what most of the movies are based on. If we want to see more of that, we need to support with our wallet, read them ourselves or give them as gifts.
Any actor celebitches here who can help me understand Hopkins complaint? If an audience doesn’t care to see you but absolutely loves a character you played, isn’t that a testament to your skill and quality as an actor?
I don’t think there is anything wrong with the audience taking to stories whose source material they already love. I think the publishing world should be doing more to bring in and lift up more original and diverse material. This is what the future of movies and tv are going to be.
It feels like the complaints are directed to the wrong place.
Also, Hopkins complaining about playing Odin is ridiculous. He knew exactly what he was getting into and signed on anyway. He wanted that check, why is he complaining that others do to?
@Steph, I didn’t read it as Anthony Hopkins (brilliant actor) complaining. I felt he was giving an opinion in answer to a question. It was factual, not whiney.
As someone who has worked on both big blockbusters and intensely emotional character driven dramas and a couple of comedies, acting in a marvel type atmosphere is the lowest of the low for an actor. It is not hard to work against a green screen at all. You are given a point of reference and as long as you don’t deviate from said point, you won’t miss your mark and it’ll appear as if the monster or whatever you are fighting, etc., and you are actually interacting. It’s bad movie making, period. Look at Zack Snyder. He’s not a director. He’s a hack. Aronofsky. Scorcese, Polanski et al are directors.
I was reading with interest your rather strident post, until I read Polanski.
Your opinions mean less than nothing when you think a rapist who fled to escape his rather lenient sentence is someone worthy of including amongst some of the great directors.
Saying somebody is talented does not mean morally validating them. Polanski’s films reflect good directing. He’s also a rapist piece of shit who deserves to be in jail. Those two things can exist together in tandem.
No. Flat out full stop NO.
There is no “both sides” for rapists. There are not redeem features for someone who drugged, raped a CHILD, & then fled the country.
I know this. You not knowing is, is your work.
Nobody is arguing both sides for rapists because the quality of rape as a moral violation was at no point questioned in either comment. The reality of the world is that people are multi-faceted. Unfortunately, talented or skilled people can sometimes prove to be heinous individuals. That’s why the job of society is to reduce their influence and remove support when things come to light, but that doesn’t mean rewriting history to fit a narrative where everything is black and white or accusing people of moral turpitude because they occasionally subscribe to death of the author.
Dehumanizing monsters doesn’t reduce their threat or power. It is, in fact, far more dangerous to pretend that they can’t be complex and talented or even charming precisely because it’s how they lure victims in initially in the first place. The very fact of Polanski’s skill and money is what allowed him to move up through the ranks of Hollywood and get to his victims. You’re not doing any favors pretending these things can exist alongside each other and that people must tiptoe around it. If anything, it lulls people into a false sense of security.
Please, for the love of god, mention anyone else as an example of a great director than that evil rapist P*******.
Steph, totally agree. Take the money and shut up. Or DON’T take the money and shout your condemnations to the world. But don’t do both, take the money and then complain about it. You made your choice, buster.
Alan Rickman, fantastic actor.
Starred in the Harry Potter movies and never said a bad word about them as far as I know.
In fact he was known to pick up checks in restaurants for decades, if anyone tried else paying, he simply smiled and said “Harry Potter” 👍
AH can pipe down with his complaints. He knew what the job and paycheck was and he signed up. Cashed the checks. Have some gratitude, AH.
Not all entertainment must be Shakespeare.
Movies can just be well done and entertaining.
I enjoyed Ragnorak, Dr. Strange. Iron Man.
I really enjoyed Captain America.
Great story, great acting.
I don’t think the actors are interchangeable in it at all.
And civil war was downright exciting. Ditto Avengers 1&2. James Spader was so awesome, his “lost the word there” line still makes me laugh out loud.
I haven’t watched all the spin offs, my anxiety can’t take the gunfire now, the fight scenes.
What he said about Tom Holland was just cruel. His career is just beginning. Calling his choices failures is nasty.
I think Kenneth Brannagh sold the first Thor movie to Hopkins as some sort of Shakespearean tragedy between brothers/fathers. Which it absolutely is. Having Hopkins act as Odin brought it some legitimacy.
To me, Hopkins has no room to talk about Marvel, isn’t he the guy who doesn’t speak to his own daughter? Take the check, sit down and be quiet.
Well here I go.
I don’t find Hopkins to be a wonderful actor at all.
He’s flat. He either mumbles, or shouts. He has zero range with facial expressions.
I don’t understand why he wins awards. He’s boring af.
Yeah that was a weird flex at TH. He’s a young actor branching out and trying stuff. Some of it works, some might not and not many films are going to make Avengers or SM money. So no knock on him for that.
And I don’t think it says much about RDJ that his non-Marvel films haven’t made billions (though Dolittle surprisingly made $250 M) Given likely a huge range of film options, Downey chose to star in a bad remake of Dr Dolittle with a weird accent and a handful of small pictures. And his Sherlock Holmes films did alright. And other MCU actors have managed to have successes outside of Marvel (Cumberbatch for one)
Like, on one hand I almost get what he’s saying, but is he telling us that being directed by Kenneth Branagh didn’t give him a chance to *Act* with a capital British A? If he were only talking about the last 2 Avengers films where he’s essentially doing cameos, I’d maybe buy the argument from him more.
He’s a fantastic actor: Remains of the Day, The Edge, Hannibal Lecter films, Legends of the Fall, etc. The movies he picks are of dubious quality but the guy can act.
He’s such a gentleman, a delight in every movie he’s in.
I see nothing wrong in actors complaining about movies they were paid to do. I get paid by my company and will complain about my job all day long. It’s life
Denise, yes, but when you first got your job, you didn’t believe it was a shithole from hell at the time? Only later did you find out that it was. And you complained. Perfectly justifiable. But Anthony Hopkins read the script, remarked, “This is a shithole part from hell!”, took said part, got an incredible amount of money and THEN complained. NOT justifiable. This just makes him a hypocrite. If he had integrity, he would have refused it, and if he had less integrity, he would have taken the job and the money and been quiet about it. If he had no integrity, he would have judged the part to be awful, played the awful part ONLY to get the gigantic amount money, showing blatant disrespect to the craft he proclaimed to love for AND then complained about the whole thing. So that’s why he’s a jerk and you’re not.
@j.ferber, please tell me where you got the quote “This is a shithole part from hell.”
I call bullsh*t. He acted his a$$ off in the first Thor film
Totally agree. Kenneth Branagh can do those kinds of shakespearean style family melodramas, which the 1st Thor film was. It was a decent film and not a superhero on. Hopkins was excellent. Branagh couldn’t direct his way out of a paper bag when it comes to action/thrillers (the Jack Ryan reboot was hideous) however.
Tom Holland acted his ass off in the last Spider-Man film. He did a fantastic job.
Chris Evans made what could have been a cardboard character human.
The actors they chose make the characters so much more relatable: RIP forever Chadwick Boseman.
These sorts of big budget films enable actors to make smaller budget projects, like Wes Anderson or Jordan Peele films.
Also, this has been discussed before: the industry has changed drastically.
And AI is making things worse.
It’s true for all actors, save Tom cruise (Julia in previous years). I don’t know why they single out marvel actors. And they’re wrong anyway.
RDJ? ‘Bomb after bomb?’ Yes, Doolittle and The Juror. But Sherlock Holmes?
Chris Evans? Knives out, Snowpiercer, gifted. Critics didn’t like gray man or ghosted but they got huge streaming numbers.
ScarJo? Tons of hits. (I’d almost replace Julia with her.)
Hemsworth has had the worst box office.
But it’s true for almost all actors anymore. And the marvel money gives them the opportunity to do smaller films, more experimental ones or indies. It’s a trade.
And Evans, Downey, et Al have spoke just as glowingly about marvel. Even when they’re out. I’m sick of the marvel bashing really. They make great movies. Not everyone’s taste. But Hollywood has always made good, solid popcorn movies. Well cast, well acted, well written. FUN. Not everything needs to be High Art to be good.
Emme: Easy: the “shithole” quotation was obviously from that horror Trump describing 3rd world countries that are not worth vacationing in. The rest I made up.