This week, the British media has been obsessed with the Dutch edition of Omid Scobie’s Endgame. Dutch journalists pointed out, on the very day Endgame was published, that their copies seemed to “name” one of the “royal racists.” In the English-language edition, Scobie wrote that in King Charles and the Duchess of Sussex’s letters to one another in 2021, they had openly discussed the identities of two royals who had said racist sh-t and/or voiced “concerns” about a Sussex baby’s skin color. The Dutch edition, seemingly out of nowhere, claimed that Charles was one of the racists named by Meghan. Scobie blamed the whole mess on a mistranslation issue, and he told the Dutch TV show RTL Boulevard: “There’s never been a version that I’ve produced that has names in it. Unfortunately I can’t speak Dutch so I haven’t seen the copy for myself, so if there have been any translation errors I’m sure the publisher’s got it under control.”
That should have been the end of it, surely. A janky translation, Scobie doesn’t even speak Dutch, and it’s absurd to think that Scobie or the publisher would want Dutch speakers to have this mega-exclusive information. Well, the British media has used the entire drama to show their hand and tell on themselves. As I’ve said many times before, everyone in the royalist media knows exactly who said what. They’ve been sitting on all of that information, hoping that Omid, Meghan or Harry would reveal it so they could all openly report what they’ve known for years. Piers Morgan was apparently tired of waiting. On his Piers Morgan Uncensored show on Wednesday, he decided to name the “two royals” he claims are named in the Dutch edition of Endgame. He named King Charles and Kate, the Princess of Wales.
Piers Morgan just named the Royals who had concerns. pic.twitter.com/k0oc4f2x2v
— Mukhtar (@I_amMukhtar) November 29, 2023
Did we even get confirmation that the Dutch mistranslation even named Kate? I saw the stuff about Charles (which honestly seemed like it was just a poorly constructed sentence more than a big reveal) but I’ve yet to see a translation which suddenly outed Kate. Anyway, the royalist media is panicked and so is the palace. It’s quite audacious for Morgan to just come out and say Kate’s name. It makes me wonder if his bestie, the queen consort, gave him a nudge. But of course, the palace’s stance is that they’re utterly dismayed by Piers’ words!
The monarchy is understood to be ‘utterly dismayed’ after Piers Morgan named the two senior royals who Omid Scobie claimed had ‘concerns’ over Prince Archie’s skin colour on UK television last night.
Meghan Markle first made the claim in the Sussexes’ infamous 2021 Oprah Winfrey interview when she revealed there were ‘several conversations’ between herself, Harry and Royal Family members about ‘how dark’ Archie’s skin would be. While the Duchess of Sussex chose not to name them amid fears it would ‘damage’ their reputation, Morgan last night identified the royals accused on his Talk TV show – and he followed the claim up by posting it to his 8.7million social media followers.
On Tuesday it emerged that a Dutch translation of Scobie’s book containing the names had gone on sale in the Netherlands. Its publisher was forced to withdraw and pulp copies amid much-mocked claims that it was an error in translation. The two senior royals accused had not been publicly named here until Morgan’s move last night.
The Royal Family is understood to be ‘considering all options’, including legal action – as royal sources told The Mirror there was ‘utter dismay’ at Buckingham Palace after the names quickly went viral on social media.
Watching this performative ass-covering and pearl-clutching from afar is fascinating, especially because I’m absolutely sure that Camilla and William are the ones being protected here. But let’s just stand back and watch it all play out. Good times.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Piers’ social media, Cover Images.
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- Piers Morgan outside ITV Studios,Image: 423997492, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no
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- Piers Morgan outside ITV Studios,Image: 429780132, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no
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- The Princess of Wales departs the annual Commonwealth Day Service at Westminster Abbey in London. Picture date: Monday March 13, 2023.,Image: 762521375, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Jordan Pettitt / Avalon
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- London, UK, 13th Mar 2023. William and Catherine, the Prince and Princess of Wales. Politicians, Royals and guests arrive and depart form today’s Commonwealth Service held at Westminster Abbey in central London,Image: 762528092, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Imageplotter / Avalon
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: King Charles III, Camilla, Queen Consort, Prince William, Catherine, Princess of Wales Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: King Charles III, Camilla, Queen Consort, Prince William, Catherine, Princess of Wales, Prince Edward, Sophie Wessex Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: King Charles III, Camilla, Queen Consort, Prince William, Catherine, Princess of Wales, Prince Edward, Sophie Wessex Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: King Charles III Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: King Charles III, Camilla, Queen Consort, Prince William, Catherine, Princess of Wales, Prince Edward, Sophie Wessex Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: King Charles III, Camilla, Queen Consort, Prince William, Catherine, Princess of Wales Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- Commonwealth Day Service At Westminster Abbey Featuring: Prince William, Catherine, Princess of Wales Where: London, United Kingdom When: 13 Mar 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
As I said yesterday, it doesn’t matter who in the Royal Family had concerns because the entire family is racist. However, if it’s true that Kate was one of those with concerns, the story that Valentine Low pushed that she was behind “recollections may vary” puts a different spin on the whole thing and adds credibility to the accusation.
I don’t think it’s kate and i don’t think she’s smart enough to come up with “recollections may vary”. That was probably done by a sly palace official, who probably grew up in aristo circles
I’ve never believed that Valentine Low story but she probably regrets that the Palace gave him permission to push that narrative now.
I am absolutely convinced that it was Kate. I also saw pictures from the Dutch book where in Kate’s chapter it is written that she was part of the conversation with Charles. It 100% came from her!!!!
For the following reasons: it was always clear that Kate was racist; when she was a student she was abusive and snooty towards PoC. In all her time in public, she has never shown us anything where you could tell that she’s not. Quite the opposite.
Furthermore, the worst thing that can happen to her is that Meghan also has the grandchildren of Diana and the reigning king. Who are probably much prettier, smarter and have blue eyes, like Diana. In contrast to her own children. Because, to be honest, and as disgusting and misogynistic as it sounds, Kate is – in the first place – just a birthing machine.
And even though we all know that Kate isn’t the brightest light, it’s not hard to come up with something like “recollections may vary”, especially when you know that you’re the accused one and are trying to defend yourself.
I think it’s already been covered, although through sources🙄 so take with a grain of salt, that the exact phrase came from someone else. Was it Jean-Christophe gray? I can’t remember. But that there was a debate over whether the phrase be included and kate pushed for it.
We know that Kate didn’t come up with it, but it has been reported when there was discussion about the advisability of using it, she insisted it be included.
It could be either true or false. However, this is the moment Kate officially got thrown to the wolves. I expect divorce roll-out by summer.
I don’t think she could come up with the line “recollections may vary” but I think she pushed for the idea that the interview was false to be in there and once that line was thought up by someone she insisted it be included.
If she was the one with “concerns,” then it makes sense that she was worried the interview would stand as fact.
She didn’t say it–she never uses words of more than two syllables–but I’m willing to bet she insisted on its inclusion.
….and stupid people actually believed the line pushed by the BM that they were the Queen’s words. The woman had control over very little in her last years.
We know Piers Morgan is very good friends will Camilla. I suspect she asked for Kate to be thrown under the bus to draw attention away from herself and Charles. I’m not a fan of Kate’s but who is most likely to talk about skin color in this day and age? Camilla’s manipulation really knows no bounds. This gets curiouser and curiouser
“Recollections may vary” was written by Jean Christophe Gray. He was/is an aid that works for KP. He came up with the phrase and the story is that yes kate did fight for it to be included in the statement. But no. Kate certainly did not think of the phrase herself. She could never…
I’m with you Amy Bee, because I’ve said from day one: it doesn’t matter who made the incendiary remark, when the entire institution exists and operates as the last bastion of white supremacy. To say that one member of the family is not a racist, is like saying a piece of wood is not a tree. However, I must admit that I love this for them. Let them stew in the same miserable juices they’ve spend the last 6 years boiling for Harry and Meghan.
Word.
Kate has the low class commoner attitude, that if you look down on someone it makes you superior and powerful. Racism is a part of this, white trash always believes themselves to be superior to every other culture. Kate has learned very little during the past 20 years, her roots are always showing. A few photos taken with brown people, does not change anything, the expressions on her face always show. Kate doesnt have to speak, she advertises her trashiness by her exhibitionist behavior and her determined focus to constantly be photographed.
Yikes, this is like an Advent Calendar of Royal Dismay.
Camilla and William might be protected for now, but once the hounds are released it’ll be hard to stop them.
They have to sue him, surely? They can’t just let him say this stuff on tv without any kind of response. And if they don’t, then the whole world will know/think it’s true because they’ll assume there’s written proof in all the letters and emails. There’s a time and a place for never complain, never explain, but this isn’t it.
It’s hard to know what’s best. A law suit might bring out a lot more than the RF would want revealed – something the BM would love to see. They might fall back on the usual royal bluster, but geez – I’ll bet Charles is wishing now he’d taken Harry’s phone calls.
The RF, aside from Harry, sue Piers Morgan? Yeah right. If they could find a way to sue omid, then maaaybe yes, but I don’t think they can. Maybe the publishers? But really, they would not even want that bc of the likely worse details which would come out in trial. Harry can sue bc he has nothing to hide that could come out in court. The rest of they RF has too much to hide.
I have a theory that Piers Morgan’s reveal on tv last night was as an In Case Of Emergency Flunkey being deployed. He never would have done that without being directly sanctioned by his royal handlers.
The Firm was already paranoid about Scobie’s book, and then this “RACIST NAMED!” drama obviously sent them all into an absolute tailspin. It’s possible Will unilaterally decided to burn his wife and father to hide his misdeeds, and it’s also possible that the Firm decided to close ranks around the heir because he’s in a more vulnerable position than the sitting monarch.
Either way, whoever deployed PM decided that they couldn’t just respond in the tabloids as usual and risk global media having the jump on the story this morning, so they sent out their thug PM to shift the narrative, and it worked.
Now is when things get interesting.
If they sue, it puts them on Harry’s level. They wouldn’t let that happen.
The RF especially Charles is to blame for all of this.
Sensible people warned him a long time ago not to allow Harry and Meghan to be pushed out, but Charles is afraid of William.
“An Advent Calendar of Royal Dismay”
☠️☠️
Yes! Now that’s a clever line!
Yep, that’s the sentence my eyeballs landed on, and I rolled.
I love your Advent Calendar of Royal Dismay, Eurydice!
I’m frustrated that I can’t get hold of any version of this book and my shipment was cancelled.
I wouldn’t be too surprised that “only 2” royals were named. If KC is speaking about Archie in a derogatory way, Camzilla can just stay silent and let KC do the heavy lifting in front of her inlaws. Same with PW and Keen—if one of them says something offensive, it doesn’t mean the other one doesn’t agree. I think PW and Camz read the expressions on H&M’s faces and talked about them behind their backs. Clearly they chose to lie about it with their spouses afterwards.
It’s very telling that the two more reasonable of the royals were named as the racists — that means everyone else is even worse.
Reading the English translation of the sentence, it is not clear to me that Charles is the one who made the comments. If that’s true, and it was someone else ( like William, for example), this may be an attempt by Piers to muddy the waters…and get some attention to boot.
By naming Charles, PM is trying to bait the Sussexes or Omid to come out and correct the record. If they say no, it’s a mistake or mistranslation – then he can say everything in this book is a lie, the royal family are victims, not a racist family etc. If the Sussexes and Omid say nothing, the RF can hope that the rumours fade away as “unconfirmed” and PM gets the attention he is craving by defending them against vague attacks.
I think it’s clear it’s Charles.
“[Charles] wanted to respond to make it clear to Meghan that there was no ill will or bias when HE spoke about HIS future grandson.” (Uppercase emphasis mine.)
It does sound like something encouraged by Camilla. I don’t think PM would put her precious friendship in jeopardy by naming KC as the racist on TV without Cam’s approval. They put Kate in the mix to deflect, and she has had shit thrown at her and her family a lot these days so why not.
I can also believe that even though Peg and Cam are the racist trolls of the highest order in that pack, Kate is the one who cannot control her impulses in public and says shit out loud when she shouldn’t. After shuddering and giggling at the mention of Meghan’s name she could easily have let some comments loose about the baby’s possible skin color and how funny (giggles giggles) a mixed-race baby would look on the all-white balcony (snorts) (insert Peg glaring at her to shut the fuck up when people can hear it).
this is tricky bc I don’t think Camilla would put something out there to hurt charles (i.e. not going to authorize PM this way.) but she would put something out there to hurt Kate. Maybe she figured win some, lose some here.
The fact that Camzilla’s buddy PM was allowed to say both names (which are all over social media anyway), means that KC has to legitimately be ine of the royal racists. The BRF, some courtiers, certain experts, and H&M at least know who these people are. So if the RF lies and says person X (instead of Y) said this, they know they risk H&M dropping receipts. The spin needs to dance along the truth and sacrifice somebody other than KC or PW.
Of all the 4 people, PW is the one who has been most vocal of his rabid hatred of M. He also is the most vulnerable of the lot
KC – He is already the reigning monarch and will not be disposed just because he has been named as one of the 2 people who questioned the colour of Archie’s skin. Besides KC has a lot of good will within PoC . I personally do not believe he is racist. Rumour has it that he did have black girlfriends… In any case KC is quite charming and he knows how to navigate such muddy waters…
Camz- Well more plausible that she made the comment but given the hierarchy not sure she would have mentioned this directly to Meghan- Besides Harry and Camilla seem to have limited contact
Cant- Well her being outed possibly means she is either being used as a deflection ( as there is no one else to use – can’t use PR ) OR she is being thrown under the bus as a way of her slowly easing her out of the family. If it is the former, then she would be rewarded handsomely
Statement was most likely made by Wilnot and Cant. I get the feeling that Willnot is being heavily protected as he is the future of the monarchy and is the one who has most to lose . Given his immaturity , he would not be able to handle the fall out if it was overtly known that he made the statement. It may also lead to his other misdeeds being explored. But make no mistake his time is coming.
Kate – Again is something she could have said but not directly to Harry. Kate is a marred in royal and would have to know her place.
Also I think PM mentioning the name is a trap which the palace may use to force disclosure Omid’s source of information regarding the specific persons who made the original comment re the colour of Archie’s skin.
Also cannot believe in 21st century those in the western hemisphere do not seem to have moved beyond the colour of one’s skin – all in a bid to maintain. the status quo.
Shawna, I’m not sure what you mean about putting them “on Harry’s level”, but FYI, they have all sued the media before. William and Kate, and Charles. No, the only reason they can’t sue Morgan is because he has the goods on them. They have used him to spew dirt about other members of the family, and it appears that Cowmilla is working with him now.
I’m thinking that this is William’s doing, he undermined his father and gave himself the perfect “out” of his marriage, in one fell swoop. Takes no prisoners indeed!
This was literally the first thing that popped to my head after reading the headline. Theres no way Piers would go against the Crown without somebodys orders.
I agree, Piers would never. That’s why I think Cam approved of this too. My theory is that Cam is higher on this ladder and even if Peg approves or requests this, PM would still have Cam give a nod to something this big.
This is kkkhate being cancelled by the betrayor family. William is behind all this of course, invalidate his father, get rid of kate and specifically using piers moron to give the impression that camilla did this.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. We all know Kate is horrible, but there’s something pinging my radar that she is being deliberately thrown under the bus here in order to protect either William or Camilla. I have a strong feeling it’s Camilla. I just do not believe that Meghan would have spoken so painfully about the speculations of Archie’s skin color and also called Kate a good person all within the same interview. Kate is being hung out to dry here. Her time has officially come.
That book wasn’t even out 48 hours and we have bodies already. Kate was definitely sacrificed. But are her comments what Meghan was referring to? Were her comments what made Harry look like he wanted to murder the suspect while discussing this on Oprah? And who does Camilla know in the Dutch publishing industry? Will Kate get a prize for being sacrificed, or will she be shown the door? The Wales are scheduled to come out tonight for the Royal Variety Performance. Will she show? The plot thickens.
🎶Let the bodies hit the floor!🎶
https://youtu.be/04F4xlWSFh0?si=lI2UulDiz1tFfk4c
Harper your post reminded me of that old comedy show ‘Soap’. with all the breathless questions in each opening sequence. I can just imagine the voiceover asking all your questions with each member of the RF affecting shocked/surprised/confused/ expressions as each one is read out 😂.
Its actually being pulled out of shelves in Netherlands due to the names being mentioned, this is a big implication because that means the place is not happy … Piers picked a bad moment to chose to be relevant. He should have stayed quiet longer now he is probably next in the agenda for the royal family..
Funny that everyone, RF first – would be more outraged by the naming by Piers Morgan than by the racism in the first place.
It’d be the same as if an abusive husband is outraged by his abused wife for calling the cops than by his own actions in the first place.
@Nu – don’t be fooled . Both the RF and PM are cahoot – all designed to force disclosure of Omid’s source whoever they are. PM’s source is already known & he would only deflect whatever comes his way to the publishers until it gets to Omid at which point he would probably be forced to deny whatever is being reported or come clean as to how he got his information . If he goes down the former route , then the whole book is discredited along with his career. If the latter then that would make for some interesting story as the source would have to provide receipts to verify/ confirm the veracity of the info provided to Omid.
KC & Can’t being named means that the real culprit is being protected – I think it is Will not . But even they , all of them are in it including the extended RF.
So the bottom line is, Kate’s ass is being thrown under the bus.
The full middleton clan targeted considering that kkkhate’s variety show is today. The timing is quite right. Is this ROSE? or is this EGGPLANT or is it Queen Tampon case or someone who didn’t get paid by moma middleton?
I think Cowmilla has closer connections to PM. I don’t think Cow and Will would ever collaborate on a Kate takedown. I think its Cam and this will force Will to act more lovey toward Kate in public (which he hates) – so in essence this is a doubled edged attack from Cam — hitting Kate and Will simultaneously.
What does Camilla have to gain if William is forced to play nicer with Kate? Does Camilla want William to stay married to Kate? Why would throwing Kate under this bus keep her in the marriage?
Just curious. Im not sure how Camilla benefits. She got the tampon. She got the marriage, the title she wanted, thr crown & the jewels. Charles does whatever she wants and always has. Camilla has treated Harry horribly since the divorce, completely terrorized Diana, William should hate her for that alone. He loved his mother. Camilla got rid of Harry & Megan (I totally believe she’s racist, elitist, and could care less about boundaries or the bonds of anyone’s matrimony). However, getting rid of Kate would make William happy & allow him to be a rutting pig all around the world. Why would Camilla want that? The smart play would be to have a quiet alliance w Kate bc some day George will be king & she needs power. She has always been about power and control. So…what’s Camilla’s long game here? Bc William isn’t smart enough to set aside his tantrums and look that far ahead.
I think at this point we know not to believe anything that PM says. Someone using this situation to further their own agenda makes perfect sense. Whether that’s William or Camilla I don’t know but there are royal fingerprints all over it.
A few years back we said they would tear themselves apart once the queen died and here we are. Just over a year in and they are firmly on the case.
The thing about William for me is that we know Camilla has connections enough with Piers to be the sole instigator here. Yes, he benefits, but doesn’t this seem like Camilla’s way of doing things? William seems to think being incandescent is good enough PR strategy.
This was precisely my first thought, too. “Who needs to protect himself on this one, and who are the two people he’s got the most beef with at this moment?” This has William’s fingerprints all over it. I’m more convinced than ever that he’s one of the (at least) two people we’re looking for.
Same. The only one who “wins” from this situation is William. He gets to take Charles down a bit and he gets to add to the list of reasons why a divorce from his current wife should happen.
You’re right, but he’s just not bright enough to do something like this.
But for those saying Kate is being thrown under the bus, it wasnt really her etc –
are you then saying that someone in the Dutch publishing industry put this in the translated version of the book so that this could come out?
Or is it more just that William and/or Camilla are the ones eager to take advantage of this situation and give Piers the go-ahead to make this common knowledge in britain?
He cannot have a divorce unless the King allows it. The King is controlled by Camilla, who doesn’t like William, bc he and Harry made it clear in the past that they did not like her. I believe the racists are Camilla, King Charles, Prince Michael of Kent (the wife who now has Diana’s apartments at KP and her gardens). That blackamoor pin on Meghan’s first outing after she & Harry were official was NO accident, possibly William, which makes me sad after all the work his mother did & the time he has spent in Africa. Possibly Kate, she wants to be accepted into William’s level of society & is constantly reminded (in print & likely in person by those who consider themselves above her snubbing her) she is less than. Yes I can see her being a mean girl bc she was mean girled. Her brother needed mental health intervention. He seems happy. She really should get therapy. And since none of us knows who James went to, she could go there, or have Bea or Eugenie to see if Harry will ask his therapist for a referral of someone who can be trusted. The only way to fix this is to recognize her life is out of control and get help. Her brother would understand. Her sister may even be a good support person. She needs to get strong. Stop being a doormat, and love her kids bc she does. Whether she ever gets to a place where she can apologize to Meghan & Harry…shrugging. Idk. But it’s a start. Bea & Eugenie aren’t betraying Harry or speaking out against their cousin William.
I can’t lie, it would be hilarious if Chuck uses this moment to refuse Willnot a divorce, if it is legally true that he can’t get a divorce unless the king agrees. Is that a known fact?
Yes, the more I think about it, the more plausible it becomes that Wills is trying to make a power move by throwing his father and wife under the bus.
*sigh* as much as i can’t wait for Kate Middletons downfall, i don’t think she’s the royal racist.
In fact, I don’t believe there’s a second person because Harry and Meghan implied in the Oprah interview that it was only 1 person.
And Meghan would have never called her a good person if Kate made comments about Archie’s possible skin colour.
But if there is a second person it’s very likely William. Both him and Charles went completely overboard with the “i am not racist” pr after the Oprah interview.
Yes, I was also remembering the “good person” comment. I can’t see it being Kate – although I wouldn’t be surprised if she thought it. I just can’t imagine her saying it to either Harry or Meg.
Maybe Meghan was doing like the people in the South, when they say ‘Bless your Heart’ and mean the opposite.
What’s interesting is that there was no confirmation that Kate’s name was outed in the Dutch version and yet Piers named her, claiming it was. Maybe it was really her. We commented yesterday about the fact that she wouldn’t even let her kids interact with their mixed-race cousin at a polo match. That said, I could also see her being thrown under the bus for this by William Camilla and Charles.
@jais: From what i have seen from screenshots the book, when talking about the letter, said something along the lines of Charles encouraging Meghan to also talk with the princess of wales, meaning Kate. But while i am sure kate has made nasty comments i don’t think she’s the racist.
However, piers did take that picture in front of KP a few years back which leads me to think william is heavily being protected here.
I just said the same exact thing above. Do I think Kate likely said horrible, nasty things about Meghan and Archie? Absolutely. But in this specific case, I don’t believe she was referring to Kate.
What we know now about Kate’s behavior leads me to believe that Meghan never thought she was a good person, but unlike Kate, is gracious enough to give her more rope from which to hang herself. I don’t have any trouble believing Kate said something like this as if she was trying to be compassionate and concerned for the family…but she knows exactly what she is doing.
At the time the letter was written Kate was not the Princess of Wales, Camilla was.
It’s not hard to believe that Kate is a royal racist, after all there are countless photos of her shrinking in horror from the touch of black folks. LeBron James for one, and the black female representative on one of their Caribbean tour for another.
@kyleo; i have no doubt that Kate has a racism problem. But the discussion here is if Kate had concerns about archie’s skin colour and if she openly voiced those concerns, either within the royal establishment or to harry directly. And i don’t think she did. She’s not the person harry and meghan were talking about.
Kate seems to be very afraid of black people and she has no problem voicing her opinions to Meg and being aggressive her. Kate made Meg cry and she looked she was about fight Meg at the walkabout for the queen. Is Kate the particular royal racist? Maybe not. But I don’t think Kate would have any issues addressing her “concerns” about Meg’s baby to Meg.
100%, Meghan woud never have called Kate a good person in the Oprah interview if she was the one who voiced these racist concerns. Don’t get me wrong, Kate is a racist through and through, but for her to be a real player in this the royals would have to actually value her voice, and they absolutely don’t. Do you think Kate Middleton has an equal voice to Will, or even Edward? She can boss Sophie around in private, that’s about it. She could’ve voiced concerns to every valet from Norfolk to London and it would be of absolutely zero consequence to the real power in that family. She’s being thrown under the bus here, and she deserves it, but she’s not THE person with concerns, she’s a nonfactor.
She called Wig a good person after Wig didn’t correct the bullshit story about Meg making her cry so why is it hard to believe that Meg would say what she said in the Oprah interview?
I don’t know why people think they know Meghan enough to say she’d NEVER say Kate is a nice person if she didn’t mean it. I’m just laughing at this. Yes, Meghan is human, she too can say “bless your heart” when she’s really hurt by your comments. She was just being a nice person when she said Kate is a nice person, she didn’t really mean it. Read Spare and you’ll get what I mean. Kate and William are the ones I believe voiced their concerns about Archie’s skin color. Even though in my heart of hearts, I believe ALL the leftover royals are racists, I believe KKKHate and Peggington were the ones that thought they were that close to Harry and probably believed Harry would never mind them saying something like that about his child.
I totally believe Meghan would still have called her a good person in the interview. It is a strategy and she is savvy enough to know that a battle with Kate in the court of public opinion was not the best course. Meghan knew she could bide her time, not name names or disparage and it would all come out anyway.
Also, the good person comment was in regards to the note after she made Meghan cry, and that you don’t have to hate her if you love Meghan or hate Meghan if you love her. To me, looking back, it felt like Meghan was trying to prevent social media attacks on Kate because of that story – and Meghan just seems like the kind of person who will always try to prevent those attacks because of her experience.
I also think it’s William – not because Kate is a “good person,” but because the concerns about Archie’s skin color also led to discussions about Archie’s security and royal title. I don’t see that Kate would be in a position to discuss these things with Charles, especially on her own, without William. But I can believe that Kate repeated what she heard from William.
Agreed.
Just like the palace wouldn’t correct the lie of Meghan making Kate cry because Kate can’t be gossiped about in the tabloids, Kate took the fall for William. As the future king, he is more important than Kate and had to be protected. All those stories about how worried he was prior to the release of Spare, maybe this was one of the recollections William was worried about.
No doubt both K and W had “concerns” and are racist.
At the time of the Oprah interview Camilla was the Princess of wales. I can see Morgan trying to mislead away from his ‘paymaster’ (to use a favorite tabloid term).
I would like this theory, except Camilla didn’t use that title.
People never much referred to her like that, though she technically had it upon her marriage
Pm also specifically said “Catherine, the princess of wales”.
Supposedly the term “princess of wales” is in the dutch version. If so, that’s 100% referring to Kate. If Omid wrote Princess of Wales (and then it got edited out by legal), he was 100% referring to Kate. No one is going to call Camilla the Princess of wales at this point.
Chloe, in the interview, when pressed to name the racist, Meghan said, “it would be very damaging for them.” At the time I figured she used ‘them’ to obscure the person’s sex, but lately I’ve been thinking it was actually confirmation that there were two.
What has come to mind reading your comment is that M&H talked about a senior member of the family who made those comments, but that there were two names in Meghan’s letter. That doesn’t mean that the second person was also a senior member of the family. William could have talked to his private secretary (Case at this point?) about it and that would be those two names.
Maybe the RF will sue PM. That would be delightful. Maybe old Piers is realizing that revealing the royal secrets will keep him relevant longer than protecting them.
Yes, that was my thought, too. This way PM can prop up his image of fighting injustice and hypocrisy – whether it’s Meghan or King Charles, Piers will fight the good fight.
Eurydice, I immediately wondered if PM is getting in some digs now because Harry is suing and ultimately I believe PM will need to testify. There could be something about all of that–particularly is PM wanted to use ‘palace sources’ for how he got info and the palace(s) said NO.
If it’s true that would be an interesting lawsuit. Did he sign a NDA with them to keep all bad behaviour under wraps?
Piers probably did a quick check with legal to confirm that his saying the names would be in the public’s interest and legally defensible. He did preface his reveal by saying that because the Brits pay for the royals, they have as much right as the Dutch to know the names and then an open conversation can ensue. I think that was on purpose to establish the public interest defense.
This doesn’t make sense, given that Meghan called Kate “a good person” in the same interview. Sounds like Camilla is pulling strings.
Or william being protected at the expense of his wife…
You’re right.
It could be Camilla who was legally the Princess of Wales at the time although she used the Duchess of Cornwall title.
Whoever it was the issue was discussed between Meghan and Charles in an exchange of letters. Meghan will have a copy of her own letter along with the response from Charles.
Piers is speaking in the present tense – King Charles and Princess of Wales. Charles wasn’t king at the time, either
But the translation refers to “King Charles”. So either the translation is seriously fcked up which is possible or it’s referring to Kate not Camilla because once Charles became King of course Camilla became Queen (consort). Also Piers said ” King Charles ” too.
Ooooh, this is a big deal for him to come out and say this even if its a ham fisted attempt to defend them esp given how close he is to Cams….
Its also interesting he named Kate when no one else did.
As I’ve said before Kate is being setup to take the flack for a lot of what went down with the Sussex’s.
As for Meghan saying Kate was a good person – I think she was being too nice and maybe a bit naive. Its clear there are a lot of issues with William and his general behaviour that Meghan may have thought that was affecting Kate’s own behaviour.
It’s weird how readily PM accepts that KFC and K are the “royal racists”. It’s like he already knew they were the guilty parties.
Indeed – the press have always known who the racists were. They have jumped all over the dutch translation issue to fire shots at the RF.
Deflection tactics I would say from 1) Wilnot & his other misdeeds 2) from the other issues raised in the book. (3) End goal is to discredit Omid and the book as a whole as the debate of who said what goes on and on until the point people get tired and the next even takes over , resulting in the other issues that were raised being buried.
The one everyone seems to highly protect is Wilnot as he is considered the future of the monarchy & d/4 indispensable
I think it was Meghan’s natural humanity and sense of empathy that made her say Kate was a “good person” and was “going through something at the time” (the Norfolk Community Peen) to explain the issue. Since then Kate has proven again and again that she’s a spiteful, jealous harpy who can’t hide her derision of Meghan, even in public…and in a church for God’s sake (pun intended).
What amounted to a grammatical error is snowballing big time…it’s going to turn into an avalanche, the tabloids are salivating at the chance to reveal all.
ITA – the media snowballing will make them all leak like a burst pipe, something big will come out before this ends.
Orchestrated leak by the royal family in an attempt to “ get this out there” before the Sussexes and have their paid troll media army try to defend them and brainwash gullible masses, also to protect William. They feel now that this is out there the Sussexes have nothing to hold them over and they have a line up of equally gullible people of color to take pictures with and sing their praises.
Waity Katy’s troll of Karen’s will intensify their attacks solely on Meghan and omid but make no mistake the dominoes are falling, and no matter how many smiley photo ops and praise from British media the saga around this has left a permanent stain on the monarchy, even historians won’t be able to airbrush this. Crack by crack that institution will fall because inside of taking corrective measures, stopping briefings on all sides and facing their “royal work” they continue to fan the flames.
Except that Harry has another 400 pages of something to hold over them that I suspect is separate from this issue. Let them continue trembling in bigoted fear.
I think the royalist media is loving this. Beneath the pearl-clutching I sense giddiness.
Most definitely.
Oh my god they are LOVING that they’re finally publishing each and every allegation that they can’t, because they’re quoting someone else!
They have new things to write about AND it is genuinely linked to the Sussexes. ££££££££!
Nice way to start a divorce process, Wills….
I think so, as I said above, Camilla was the pow at the time of the interview. Kathy is the fall guy here. Sorry, not sorry.
This may or may not be true about Kate, but we’ve all said for years when push comes to shove, she would be the one getting shoved out front. It does make me wonder though if they’re going to start attacking each other for cover and end up exposing way more than they intended to just like they did with Spare and just like they did before the Oprah interview. Most of the things that we found out is because they can’t help themselves from saying no I didn’t do that, they did much worse.
I agree @Dee(2), this is turning into a big, messy, internecine war of the Windsors because they just can’t handle these issues with anything remotely resembling a well thought-out plan. It’s devolving once again into childish finger-pointing and back-stabbing. I cannot wait for the next episode of “Who Said It!!”
Maybe Meghan said what she said because she tries to see the good in people? I don’t think Kate is a good person. She let the world think Meghan made her cry, when it was the opposite, and she was never friendly towards Meghan in my opinion. Now she can see what it feels like to be thrown under the bus and lied on if she is being used to protect William.
Meghan said it for protection. She knew that she would be attacked if she said anything bad about Kate.
totally agree Amy Bee. it was a calculated move to take some heat off of Meghan after the revelation that Kate made her cry. they KNEW the knives would be out for her and so in the interview Harry was the one who did most of the big reveals and Meghan’s “good person” quote could stand as proof that they weren’t trying to go after Kate. they had bigger fish to fry. I thought that framing on their part was excellent strategy.
I think Meghan said that because she felt sorry for Kate and what she was going through at the time.
Maybe I am wrong, but in the time of conversation, wasn’t Camilla princess of Walles?
No, she was Duchess of Cornwall.
She was officially the princess of wales, but didn’t use the title because of the obvious comparisons to the woman she helped get killed.
S says and Eurydice- she was both! At the time Cam WAS the Princess of Wales but she didn’t use the title because it was so closely associated with Diana. She used the “Duchess of Cornwall” title but yes, she WAS technically the Princess of Wales at the time as well!
At the time, Charles was Prince of Wales, not King Charles, as stated by Piers – so, it doesn’t matter what Camilla was called.
Yes. Legally she was Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall plus several other titles as the wife of a multi-titled man. At the time of the marriage it was agreed that she would not use the Princess of Wales title in deference to public feeling about Diana.
Camilla never had the title POW because it was Diana’s until she died and it was felt the title was still associated with her. Now it’s passed to Kate.
Dutch royal commentators Rick Evers and Jeroen Snel named KC and Kate based on the book. If there was a translation mistake, it could have been with Kate, because the text affirms that the then Prince oW, now king made the remarks as well as the Princess oW, meaning Kate. However, the book doesn’t (in Dutch) refer to Kate as the then Duchess of Cambridge.
Legally yes but she never used the title nor was she ever called the “Princess of Wales”. If they wanted to refer to Camilla they would have said “Duchess of Cornwall” or “Queen Camilla”.
Not if they wanted to rope Kate into the conversation. Even now, as Omid spoke about in Endgame, the slightest criticism of Kate activates those who insist on deifying her with choruses of, “She never puts a foot wrong.”
Even some Sussex’s supporters, refuse to let her be painted as a mean girl nor entertain a thought she might even be petty.
I believe it might not be Kate, this may being put out there for the very reaction it is getting, ‘don’t touch our Kate!’ But I will allow for the possibility that she might be the one.
I seriously thought Willy would be more discreet with the divorce rollout, but I guess this is where we are. Damn, he’s cold as ice.
This is brutal. They’re all complicit in the racist bullying of Meg but hanging it on Kate? This family. Mygawd. Carole better be researching PR firms that specialize in rehabbing public images after a high profile divorce.
She was always going to be disposable when the time came.
If nothing else maybe we will at last see the end of “has never put a foot wrong”.
I think we saw the end of that last week when literally putting a foot wrong, and getting out left leg first, practically flashed all she has.
Something about this stinks. I don’t know if Piers is angry or his boss murdoch wanted in on the action but to name these names don’t make sense unless it was to benefit Piers himself. I don’t know if the press is mad about losing their golden geese, leaks, sued, Harry trials, or money but whatever it is, this feels like chain yanking from the press who are bitter or he’s covering for a particular thumb looking Prince.
Poor Camilla, palling around with nasty people and then her husband gets named.
What you get when befriending a cobra.
Hm this got me thinking. What if this is revenge from Camilla? I mean the idea that it was charles was reported on previously by the very same media that is now doing the pearl clutching. But i always thought that it was William. What if it was and Cam got upset Charles was named instead? So now their throwing kate under the bus too?
Maybe Camilla is just sick of Charles’ bullshit. I cannot imagine that marriage to him is in any way pleasant. She deals with his moods more than anyone else has to. She has to go along on these foreign junkets to places she hates. Now that she has her financial benefits and kids’ trusts all nailed down, she can kick Charles any way she wants. He’s certainly not going to divorce her, as he is terrified to be alone.
Okay that would be kind of funny. Camilla taking them all out, one by one, including Charles.
Hmm. I assume Morgan’s post is simply a way to get the discussion out in the open – the DM refused to print the names yesterday, but you could tell they were chomping at the bit. Now they can report on it, goodness knows they need the content.
As much as I would love to see the palace turn on Morgan ( white supremacist on white supremacist violence, as it were) I can’t help but feel like they will simply throw Katie to the wolves and trust that she is popular enough and infantalized enough that it won’t ruin her. Heck, it might give her an excuse to stop her nonstop work schedule for a few weeks and lay low, then make a “triumphant” comeback for her Xmas special.
PM is vile, but I do think it’s good that he named KC and Kate.
Meghan mentioned the skin color of Archie in the Oprah interview because it wasn’t just innocent “whose eyes/ hair/ stubbornness/ goofy smile” but also WHAT [Archie’s] SKIN COLOR WOULD MEAN. That’s racist. Meghan was racially harassed by the BRF and the RR. Sometimes micro aggressions, sometimes super obviously. This wasn’t innocent.
However, the laws in Britain are set up to protect wrong-doers. The BRF said that it never happened. They lied. And were protected. We saw what that meant with Ngozi Fulani. If someone has knowledge of something like racism, especially in the royal family which is government-adjacent, that should be common knowledge and the person who uttered the remarks should be held to account.
Now I believe that Omid Scobie knows and named them in an earlier draft. To protect himself, he’s thrown the Dutch under the bus. H&M are allowing people less powerful to be victims, because the RF doesn’t need to worry about their behavior being made public. That’s ridiculous. It’s a stupid law that protects the perpetrators and causes innocent people to get hurt.
First off, as an American living in the NLs, I truly find the “janky translation” explanation sort of jingoistic and offensive.
My husband had to read MacBeth in his fourth year of English in the original Shakespearean. My husband can still quote parts of it. My kids did Hamlet. They also read several English books, newspaper articles, poetry, etc. The Great Gatsby, The Book Thief, The Catcher in the Rye, and The Fault With in Our Stars are all school reading that landed downstairs on our bookshelf. This is regular English in a public school. For the English speakers out there, how many foreign books (usually 2 here in years 5 and 5, possibly 6) did you read in the original form in your foreign language class? Anything from the 1500-1600s when people “spoke weird?” Plus, most Dutch kids watch films and series with subtitles. They game in English. And they usually learn at least one more foreign language (usually French).
Anyone working in a publishing company and dealing with English has a higher level of English proficiency than a regular high-school student!!! I read the Dutch pages: This IS NOT a punctuation error. It’s either maliciously made up, which I do not believe, or there was an issue with the copy the publisher (Xander Uitgevers) received.
The Dutch have the highest level of English for non-native speakers in the world. The very old, very young, and immigrants from certain countries might not be able to communicate in English , but almost everyone has a fairly good grasp of the language and often a decent-sized vocabulary.
Agree 💯 percent. When I lived in the NLs my Dutch friends spoke English,German, Spanish and French perfectly. It was humbling.
I was hoping some Dutch speakers here would weigh in because I know the Dutch are VERY, EXTREMELY fluent in English. Of all translations, the Dutch would logically be most accurate. So now I’m just confused. That may be the point of all of this. Eventually, the royal sycophants will just say, well, we can never know ; it’s unknowable! And they will consider the matter resolved. One thing we know for sure now is that conversations occurred just as Meghan said.
Dutchie here, at your service 🙂
I personally find it very weird if a mistake was made.
Lots of random Dutch people would be able to translate this into Dutch without making such a mistake. Like ML said, we do indeed learn English from an early age, helped by the fact that a lot of entertainment for kids is/was in English. By the time kids go to junior high school, a lot of them can have a intermediate level conversation in English. We were also expected to read books from different time periods in high school in the original texts. When we wrote papers for other subjects in HS, we would often use English academic books as a source.
It would therefore be very strange to me if a professional translator would make this mistake.
Another thing that adds to this is that, despite a lot of our sounds being quite different and unpronounceable for English speakers, our grammar is actually pretty close to English grammar. A lot of our words are too. If you read a random Dutch text, you would recognize at least some of the words and maybe recognize the sentence structure.
Example:
“Ik heb een fijne boot.”
“I have a nice boat.”
Ik=I: An English speaker might not immediately identify ‘ik’ as ‘I’, but once you see it, you will probably see the similarity.
heb=have: Not that similar, but it still starts with the same letter.
a=een: This is not similar at all. However, the important thing is that it is used in exactly the same way and has the same meaning in both languages. Compare this to languages where there are several versions of ‘a’ depending on the word that follows and/or what grammatical function it has in the sentence (Hello German!). Then compare this to languages that don’t even use articles to help clarify what exactly is meant.
fijne=nice: The words look very differently, but you would likely have picked up on the similarity to ‘fine’. Though the meaning here is closer to ‘nice’, its similarity to ‘fine’ makes it easily recognizable as meaning something pleasant/positive.
boot=boat: Don’t have to explain this one 😉
The most important thing, however, is the word order. It’s exactly the same.
Now, not all types of sentences have exactly the same word order when it comes to Dutch and English, but the more basic sentences do. Compare this to languages where a verb is always at the end, or where there is much more freedom when it comes to word order and you need to figure out first what the subjects and objects are before you can even start translating.
Dutch and English both have words that help translators immensely when it comes to translating from one to the other.
Example:
Zij=She
Her=Haar
Hij=He
Hem=Him
They help make it clear who the subject and object of a sentence are.
Some languages don’t do this. Some don’t make a distinction between female and male when it comes to pronouns. Some don’t even require a pronoun to be used when speaking about someone and only leave you with a verb, so you basically have sentences like:
“going home” or even “going”
If you want to translate this into proper English or Dutch, you will need to add a pronoun or another way to identify who is going home.
We do that in ways like this:
she, we, the student, the man, my friend, the person who…, our favorite baker, etc
For languages that don’t do this, you will need context and this of course makes it far more likely the wrong person or people will be identified when translating, particularly if multiple people or groups of people were discussed before.
I would argue that apart from Frisian*, it’s the closest language to English when it comes to the written word.
*Frisian is a language spoken by parts of the North of the Netherlands and Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia
Would just like to add to the above that the point is the similarity, not how ‘good’ or ‘clear’ a language is.
Speakers of two or more related languages in another language group are often quite comfortable with translating from one into the other, whilst English or Dutch can seem far less logical in many ways. For instance, articles can be very strange and frustrating to people whose native language does not use them.
Why is ‘a’ wrong in this sentence and why is ‘the’ correct, while in this other sentence that is exactly the same, it’s the opposite? They will need to look at context and figure it out, just like we need to do the same with languages that don’t require pronouns (or other ways to identify a person) in a sentence, for instance.
Thanks, Flowerlake! That is a deep dive into translating English to Dutch indeed. I knew that some words and phrases are quite similar too. I could understand an error translating English to almost any language but Dutch. And someone working for a Dutch publisher would be extremely proficient. And no one is a better example of Dutch fluency in English than you. I have noticed. 😉
@Brassy Rebel thank you for your nice comment.
I just woke up briefly and saw this 😀
I hoped to make it clear how similar Dutch is to English and how hard it is to make mistakes for a professional translator when translating from English into Dutch.
Anyway, back to sleep. Hope you all have a nice evening in the USA.
@ML, thanks for this. Very interesting.
Correction on my comment above—that should be years 4 and 5 and maybe 6.
Look, the Dutch might not speak English 100% as a native English speaker, but they are extremely fluent, generally have a fairly large vocabulary, and the kids in the Dutch school system are learning English at a much higher level than I learned French. By year 3, they’re speaking English in class and by year 4 they’re reading English books in English. I didn’t read Molière’s plays in the original French in high school. I lived in Germany for over a year and got fairly fluent, but Goethe was a bit too difficult to really understand for me. An article from The Times isn’t in simple English, but by 15 years of age a Dutch teenager is expected to read and understand this. So people working at a publishing company, who are probably language aficionados to begin with, are going to be better at this than your average teenager. It’s their job! Many small European countries speak decent English because they use subtitles and because they need a common language to communicate in.
From what I’ve seen it’s not a janky translation at all. Both bits include sentences that aren’t in the English version. Maybe a different draft?
If it was from a different draft than the English version than someone messed up BIG TIME.
I’m in tin foil hat mode. If it’s not a translation error, then it’s awfully convenient for the BM. Having the royal racists outed is a coup and the BM is loving it. Being able to blame omid for it is icing. Just saying, once the original manuscript was licensed out to different publishing houses, who knows what happened. Just convenient that they can abuse Meghan and omid in one fell swoop.
@Jais — my tinfoil hat theory as well. Do you think it’s possible someone on the Dutch translation team was bribed to include the names? Omid stated that any earlier drafts wouldn’t have been sent out, that they get destroyed, and only then does the final draft get sent to international publishing houses. So either someone inserted the names at the Dutch end or a previous draft somehow got into the wrong hands. This is a seriously BIG issue and I think it’s going to get worse.
@jais, @jaded, 💯💯💯. I posted this on the original post about Charles being outed in the Dutch translation yesterday:
Putting on my tin foil tiara, I’m wondering if the Dutch translator or someone else in the Dutch publishing company dd this at someone’s behest to try to get Scobie (and the Sussexes) in trouble.
Yes, let me join all of you. Isn’t Endgame’s publisher owned by Murdoch too? What a great way to allow PM (also working for a Murdoch company) to name the “royal racists”. And such good friends he is with Willy too! /adjusts tinfoil tiara
Yes, I heard that Endgame’s publisher is owned by Murdoch.
The truth is that the media loves all this furore and this kind of story sells newspapers.
But also, this isn’t about how well the Dutch speak English as a whole. The issue is this particular translation. Someone can speak another language fluently and still make the occasional mistake, especially a punctuation error. Heck, the error might not even be from the translator, it could have been an editing mistake, which seems most likely. I don’t speak Dutch so haven’t a clue as to the quality of the translation, but sometimes books ARE translated incorrectly. I have read the entire Anne of Green Gables series in Spanish for example and there were a lot of incorrect translations in there – little things that weren’t big deals, but because I know the original English versions so well stood out to me.
(I’m just referring to the part with the colon and the new sentence, not the other stuff about Kate.)
Could it have been a fact-checking note that made it into the printing? Like, an editor was just noting that the comments had been confirmed, and who said them, for background fact-checking purposes.
I think this falls under BIG MISTAKE. It’s not a translation error.
Rick Evers is quoted as saying the following:
“If you compare the Dutch version and the English version it is quite clear that there is just a paragraph missing,” he said.
“One of them is replaced by some kind of sentence that Omid is not allowed to say the names because of legal problems to mention them, so it’s very clear that something has been erased.”
He said he suspects the original manuscript was checked by a legal department, who told the publishers the name should “come out”.
From this article: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/endgame-publisher-of-book-that-appeared-to-name-royal-as-racist-called-journalist-within-one-hour-of-his-writing-about-it-13019039
The thing is I don’t know who made the mistake. Xander Uitgevers are saying that a mistake was made and they’re recalling all the [unsold] books. Omid Scobie says that he has never had any printed version of his book that contains the names. This is the publishing company that got hold of Lucinda Riley’s 7 Sisters series. They do not want to eff up their connections to blockbuster English translated books. I just cannot imagine that someone there said, “I am going to add in this little paragraph and let’s see what happens…” You’ve got editors and copy editors and such who are supposed to catch that. So I think Omid did have a version (also because his book was delayed) with the names. If the Dutch company received the memo to nix the info, then they made a huge mistake. This could destroy their relationship with the English language market, which is way bigger than the Dutch one. And publishing is hurting. If someone didn’t inform them to remove that information or they received the wrong version, then it’s not them. Either way, I do believe Omid is lying about never having had a version in which the royal racists were named.
I was reading a comment on a different site from someone who worked in the publishing industry. She said that it is common practice to send an earlier version of the book to be translated so that the book can be released and ready at the same time in different markets. She also noted that the English version maybe was the final one approved by lawyers, so this sentence or paragraph was taken out. Also if you think about it, names are the same whether in Dutch or English. I think this was less a case of a translation mistake but a case of an entire sentence or paragraph missing from English version.
@Farah except Omid says he never wrote the names. And I believe that – he knew that was never going to get past legal, so why bother writing something he knew anyway? If the passage in the Dutch version was the original English version, that would have been Omid making a very conscious choice to include something that he knew was never going to get published, and I just don’t think he would do that.
Agree @becks1, omid knew this book would get him heat. Why would he purposely bring more? The BM was always going to freak out about this book and give him publicity. There’s no reason for him to set up something like this, but that’s what the BM is trying to say. He said there’s an investigation. It doesn’t seem to be a translation issue. So what is going on bc it’s fishy.
@becks1, I recall Scobie saying that he never put the names in the book, or a book. But I’m wondering if that statement does not include prior drafts. As someone indicated above, perhaps the passage was included in a prior draft of the manuscript that just wasn’t deleted for the final book in the Netherlands. Regardless, any way this flushes out, it seems to me that it would be hard to show that Scobie intended the paragraph to be included in the Dutch version, unless there is correspondence to that effect. I just can’t imagine a writer being held liable for a mistake of one or more publishers.
@ML: thanks to both you & @Flowerlake! You did remind me, though, of a tough semester in mid-high in which I was reading Beowulf & The Canterbury Tales in their original format & Don Quixote in its original format as written by Cervantes. 😬
@ML Do we know who did the translation to begin with? While I believe you about Dutch people and their English proficiency, could it be possible it was someone with Dutch as a second language who did the translation? I’ve seen terrible ones before, for other languages, where it seems pretty clear it was translated by someone with English as their first language and the other as their second (eg something along the lines of une rouge jupe, instead of une jupe rouge).
But even then, it seems the paragraphs are completely different, or else missing a couple of sentences?
I’d love to see an actual photograph of the passage in question, next to a picture of the English version. There was someone yesterday who kept typing out the supposed paragraph in question, but I don’t think I’ve seen a picture of it yet.
I agree; this is what we should be discussing: why WAS there this discrepancy in the Dutch translation? It wasn’t bad translation. I suspect foul play. I hope we get to find out, soon.
I refuse to watch him or read his tweet so I’m not sure what the angle is…is he saying “poor Charles and Kate” are being named in a book or is he saying “Charles and Kate asked about skin color” as fact? It just seems so weird, what is the angle here?
He’s made it into a public service: 1: We pay for the BRF, so why should we not know when the Dutch can. 2: Once we know who it was, and therefore possibly exactly what was said and in what context, we can judge whether or not it was racist. Essentially, the British people have a right to know and the BRF has a right to defend itself. He does not believe it was racist. As I said below: with my family ethnicity and marriages, speculating about what a baby will look like is actually a joyous conversation. If, however, Meghan and Harry felt it was racist, that is another thing entirely. I would like to know what was said, by whom, and in what context. I suspect the BRF will say nothing. And I suspect M&H will always have the grace to stay quiet. Too nice.
Im thinking that if Kate and Charles were discussing Archie’s skin tone it wasn’t a joyous conversation😂. Especially when it’s being discussed at the same time as writing a new letters patent that takes away Archie’s title and possibly his future security. Considering the family never once spoke out or defended Meghan against the racist abuse she was facing, they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. It’d be a stretch to think that any kind of context around this conversation would absolve them. But piers Morgan is gonna try and make the case for that I’m sure🙄. The debate over whether the public deserves to know the context is interesting though. It is a publicly funded family.
I’m totally understanding your thinking here, Jais. But would Meghan say Kate was a good woman, in the same interview this matter was discussed? I can’t get my head round that.
Imo, meghan was protecting herself with that statement. And she probably does pity Kate bc she’s a kind person. Even if Kate is a racist snot. Here’s the thing though. All these convos were not in Meghan’s presence. So basically you have a bunch of white people engaging in a convo about racial skin tone when the only black person is being excluded. Why couldn’t they say this in front of meghan if it was just light-hearted wondering what a child would look like? Why didn’t they include the mother and only black person in these convos? They didn’t bc they knew they were wrong. Leaving her out of those conversations and having them behind her back? A bunch of white people sitting around talking about the skin tone of the first non-white child in the RF? Nah. That’s why all these it wasn’t racist commentary coming from Morgan and others is absolute bs.
Jais, thank you. I’ve been wondering whether Meghan were present. Now I know. Was Harry there? Or was it passed around and then overheard/passed to Harry? Yes, speculating about a baby’s looks and character is lovely, but, by virtue of Meghan’s not being there, I see the essence of what could have happened. It’s cruel. Why oh why she is so nice with Kate is beyond me.
The BM have been DYING to tell us who the royal racists are. They have actually been telling us recently with the Kate will never forgive Meghan and Harry stories. It didn’t make any sense that Kate was so upset. The comments made about her were pretty innocuous for Kate to be the one who will never forgive.
Hmm…if I was exposed as a liar, I’d be upset too. Harry and Meghan were supposed to keep silent about the crying story. Kate got a lot of support from the press and fans when KP leaked that story. That’s why she was so upset with Harry and Meghan.
Kate’s sitting back and letting Meghan take the heat for something she did not do is cold blooded. Kate gas no shame playing victim
OMG is it possible that at the time of the Oprah interview Meghan didn’t know that Kate was also present for the conversation that Harry (clearly) had with William? Harry and William’s contentious relationship may have led to Harry focusing on only William when he was relaying the story to Meghan. Especially if William in a rage made the offensive statement and a seemingly pragmatic Kate was there and asked Harry to think about the child and how difficult life may be for them as the only “dark-skinned” royal. Obviously I am speculating but…if the conversation happened that way, Harry may have assumed that Kate’s contributions to the conversation was coming from a good place. As a result
Harry may not have even thought to mention Kate’s presence to Meghan.
Both Dan and Piers have stated that TWO people had the skin color conversation with Harry. Don and Piers would have gotten their information from a reliable source (Camilla? Or someone who works for her?). They both knew Kate was there and Piers just named her.
That’s an interesting theory.
According to the leaks, Meghan named two people in the letters, one of them is Kate. If Meghan didn’t know about Kate’s presence, she wouldn’t name her?
Eliora, I don’t believe Dan and Piers. H&M did not state how many people were part of the conversationS Harry had. They did state this came up when talking about security for Archie and whether he would have an HRH Prince or not. I think Harry said the issue came up, too, before the wedding.
All we actually know from the Oprah interview is that there was more than one person. I, personally, believe there were lots more than just two people involved in this.
I think the brf is simply using this to make people believe there were only two people. Guess what, there were a lot more than that IMO.
I don’t believe any of this. Piers is a pathological liar and a grade A POS. If he’s a journalist I’m a neurosurgeon. I don’t believe Kate is valued or respected enough to be included on serious family/Firm conversations like this to even be able to voice her negative insignificant opinions.
Agree he’s a POS but why would he risk legal repercussions if it wasn’t true?
Because he has powerful royals behind him on this.
My money is on William. H&M said it would be damaging to said person. KC3 is a benchwarmer for the throne. The Firm has been trying to make W happen (& failing spectacularly) since he came of age. W’s problem is he’s a pompous ass who wants to bully his way over everyone. He has way too many “yes men” surrounding him. He doesn’t want to put any work in, but wants to take credit for all the wins. How can he possibly be a global statesman when he can’t even be diplomatic in his own family?
K is a useful (now more useless) idiot.
That’s the way I see it, too. KC3 and Cams have absolutely nothing to lose by this point. They’re already as unpopular as they’re going to get. Kate is a non-entity in the grand scheme of things. William is the only person who stands to lose if he’s exposed in this. It’s William.
Blackapinay, NO ONE SAID THERE WAS ONLY ONE PERSON. That’s not to shout, it’s to get some attention. Harry had conversationsS about this, but not just regarding security. It also came up BEFORE the wedding.
I think there were a group of people regarding this. Yes, I’m sure Cant was part of that. That woman is incapable of keeping her emotions to herself. IMO she would never pull her punches when talking about anyone she believes is so far superior to. So, yes, I can believe it was WanK, KFC and the Escort, and palace sycophants.
The fact that PM even mentioned on his show yesterday that the British taxpayers has a right to know , that was pretty dramatic lolZ but also seemed political.
“Rome” is burning and they’re all now trying to save themselves so they’re throwing each other under the bus.
Agree definitely W is being protected. This confirms to me he has the most power in that family. My cousin from NZ visited the US this past spring and the rumors over there even back than was that C is just in a holding area for a little bit, then W takes over. Also by naming K as the other person(which was never confirmed by Omid or the Dutch outlets), I’m wondering if this is part of a strategy to get out of his marriage. These actions are very similar to Trump and his MAGA advisors. Also listen to what they have been hinting all these months (about their strategy plans) because just like T, I don’t think it’s assumptions , I think they’re going to do it to compete with HM here in the US.
Wait, Piers Morgan still has a show?!?!?
IKR, I thought everybody fired him.
Maybe this is his master plan? He gets publicity and social media clicks, and becomes ‘popular’ again. They sue him, all kinds of ugly stuff is going to come out. If there is good proof of all this bad stuff, and I’m sure there is, he should win his case and he is going to look golden. He’s famous again, lots of quotes, interviews on TV and radio and SM. He might even be offered his own shows again.
There are so many ‘wins’ in allowing him to say who the racists are:
– The rest of the RF can say they are not racist
– They can’t do much about Charles’s rep but they can really damage Kate
– The BM have a lot to chew on and regurgitate, and they can say all kinds of things as they are reporting on what someone else said
– The BM can get a lot of stories out of this, meaning lots of clicks
– It appears to clear William and Camilla
– William looks to be a better person than Charles
– If he so desires, it allows William to cast Kate aside, blaming her for the rift
And lots more.
As incestuous as media is, and since that letter was leaked by Charles , and since Harry had such a great Invictus in Denmark, you can’t tell who and where the Derangers exist. THIS was an inside job.
A war for hearts and minds.
Invictus was in Germany this year.
Exactly, the letter was leaked by Charles not Meghan.
We know that Piers Morgan hates the Duchess of Sussex. I wonder if this is a way to make her look bad. I’m sure he dislikes Omid Scobie as well because the tabloids have gone out of their way since ‘Finding Freedom’ to say that Scobie is their cheerleader, spokesperson, BFF, despite both Scobie and the Sussexes denials. There have been plenty of people who believe that the Sussexes are the source for Endgame.
There are bots who praise piers. But I do notice in comments sections in dm that a good number of posters trash piers and cannot stand him. I think piers is counting on support from Camilla.
Good to know he put his faith in a snake to aid him. This will work out well. (for us)
Oh it’s definitely that. Accusing scobie of purposely leaking it to the Dutch publisher and accusing Meghan of leaking the names to scobie, as opposed to the fact that someone around Charles leaked the letter as a warning to him.
“The Royal Family is understood to be ‘considering all options’, including legal action”
Ah so will they be suing Piers then? Because Scobie never said who it was in both his interviews and in the english language version of the book (aka the language he wrote the book in) so I’m not sure how, legally, he can be sued for something he never wrote. Then again this could (and probably is) a bunch of BS – they’re not going to sue.
They love legal action. They threatened the BM with human rights over William’s alleged affair, and they insisted Rose and her family got lawyered up.
Oh I’m not saying they *never* sue just that there’s a tendency to threaten legal action and simply not follow through *all the time* i.e the Oprah interview. But they absolutely have sent legal letters and could do so now. I’m just saying *I* don’t think they will.
Hi Pumpkin. I was agreeing with you, entirely. Sorry if it came across as if I were saying, it’s actually the opposite. I rush in and out of here and just scrawl type! I too think they won’t sue Piers. I have a feeling, just a feeling, that he got some kind of approval. I’m very much out on a limb there. Having watched what he said, tho, I feel as if he wants the conversation forced into the open so it can be defended. He doesn’t believe they’re racist; he wants the BRF to able to fight back.
Don’t worry about it! I didn’t think you were disagreeing but I did want to expand on my point a little. I sometimes say things in my head but then don’t write them out. But you didn’t know that since you can’t read my thoughts!
I’ll be very surprised if they sued. PM has far too much on them. I think this is another ‘warning shot.’ If the BRF don’t do something to help him with the court case then the gloves are coming off. First the hint about having Harry ‘bumped off’ and now this. PM is out to cause as much trouble as he can for the BRF until they get him off the hook.
I’d be surprised if they sued too. It would open up that whole racism discussion plus it would confirm that the palace leaks which they deny. Piers said months ago that he knew who said the skin color comments, who told him?
In the page published by Rick Evers, only one name is mentioned: Charles. There is no reference to Kate.
I don’t think this is a misplaced comma or something, the passage refers specifically to Charles twice.
This is my own translation back to English of the relevant passage:
… Although they were personal letters, palace employees – of which one later departed in a not so amicable manner – were able to view them as they were sent and received.
Charles had contacted his daughter in law in the spring of 2021 to indicate how sad he was that there was such a large distance between the two parties and that he was disappointed that the couple had courted publicity. But what bothered him the most was that Meghan’s revelation that inside the family there were multiple conversations , without her and Harry, where ‘concerns’ were voiced about which skin color their unborn son Archie would have and ‘what that would mean or how that would look [for The Firm]’. During their conversation with Oprah neither Harry nor Meghan wanted to say who were present at that conversation (a representative of the couple only wanted to share that it was not the Queen or Prince Philip). ‘I think it will be very damaging for them,’ said Meghan. But in those private letters an identity was revealed and confirmed: Charles.
The King, so say sources, wanted to react to make it clear to Meghan that there was not a case of ill will or bias when he spoke about his future grandson. ‘He wanted to clear up something that he found very important,’ says a royal insider. For Meghan – who never used the r-word (racism) in her description of this event at….
Thank you for this, extremely helpful.
I love the CB community, we have skills and knowledge for every occasion.
Well this proves Charles was lying his @ss off about meaning “no ill will” towards Archie because Meghan specifically said the conversations also included changing the convention so that Archie wouldn’t get a title or security. Why single Archie out to deny him what the other grandchildren of the monarch would receive? Of course Meghan would be upset that her child would be unprotected. Combine this with the skin color conversation and it’s hard not to see racism, even if the Sussexes said “unconscious bias”. Although, I think they may have a different opinion these days.
At the end of the day, Piers Morgan is for Piers. He’s previously on video made around the time of the wedding saying the royal family has a problem with race. Then he became Team Palace and their biggest defenders. There’s something in this for him, whether its publicity for his bottom feeder show or he was promised something by someone. The press and the Firm are also trying to bait Meghan to say what was in the letter or to get Omid to say he’s seen the letter so they can accuse Meghan of leaking or cooperating with Omid.
I don’t believe that Kate was one of them. Meghan specifically said in the Oprah interview that Kate is “a good person”. No way would she have said that if Kate was one of the “Royal Racists”. I also don’t believe it was Prince Charles. While i think he’s a lousy person, i do believe he has enough decorum and sense to not say something so offensive and openly racist. All signs have pointed towards Prince William being one of the racists, and i firmly believe Camilla is the other. This “It’s Charles & Kate!” crap is nonsense. What the hell is going on here?!
I too think it’s an older member of the family. These kind of remarks, said out loud, are very much more them than the younger generation. So I don’t think it’s William, either. I think it could have been Camilla and Anne together.
Given William’s level of rage and hatred towards Harry and Meghan, I think he very likely was part of this too. He’s a psychopath so I don’t expect anything rational from him at all.
That’s my take too @MsIam. It’s obvious that William and Charles have a very *frought* relationship and now that William in one step closer to the throne he’s becoming dangerous. I can totally see him giving tacit approval to PM to reveal the skin colour issue on his show, and slip Kate’s name into the mess in order to make her into the scapegoat before a separation announcement goes out.
I don’t think it is “just” Kate, she would not have been in a situation where she’d be on her own talking to Harry. I could see it if Kate and William were together talking to Harry, but then Megan should have been there, as it would have been a couples thing or a formal event. If it was Kate she would have had backup in the form of Will or Camilla. I didn’t think Charles could have been so stupid, but then what do I know.
People continue to bring up that Meghan said Kate was a good person so there for she automatically exclude . We all know the real reason Meghan called a kate a good person had Meghan correct a lie about herself where she was portrayed as a angry black woman who made the white princess cry . And she still continues to be attack for correction a lie . So I don’t put too much salt into Meghan calling Kate a good person we all witnessed Kate racist behavior towards black peoples and Meghan In real time . I think kate and William Both were having conversation about archie skin color we seen first hand how kate acted in front of archie when he was a baby she wouldn’t even allow her own kids to interact with their cousin . In two of the officials pictures of the family with archie and Doria Kate purportedly leans as far a way from doria as possible. Kate is the racist royal so is William but he being protected no one cares about Charles so he also been throw under the bus . I don’t think the royals will sue they have their lackeys blame all of this on Meghan and Harry accuses them of bullying their poor innocent Kate .
Can you imagine how Master Archie is gonna feel about this when he is older and able to search all of this racist nonsense for himself?!!!!!
His first experience of racism and he wasn’t evening born yet. Trifling people.
I wish him a safe and an amazing life ahead.
He’s going to know that someone in the media called him a monkey and his royal family did nothing. He’s going to know that his grandfather didn’t want him to be a prince. He’s going to know that the royals wanted his mother to unalive herself while pregnant with him.
He’s actually Prince Archie, but agree with your overall point.
My thoughts too.
Imagine how Archie and Lili will feel when they are older and read all the history about how Diana and their own mother have been treated. I wonder the impact it will have on the other three grandkids as well.
George is old enough now to see things happening, He will see the headlines.
Peirs and his ilk are focused on “the Royal Racists” so they can deny the royal family is racist.
It’s going to be: Charles and Kate (or whomever) were innocently asking and it is not racist to wonder. A certain royalist, Tory type will eat that up- because they would do the same and they don’t think they are racist.
And – it was just two people who said something “questionable” and the rest of them are “very much not a racist family.”
It’s gross, but I truly think they want to both hide behind the royal racists and convince people thst what they did wasn’t even all that bad.
Ugh.
All I can think about in this situation is : POOR ARCHIE,
It seems all the principles involve in the public conversation about this situation have forgotten about the most innocent of innocent person at the heart of this and how this will impact Archie when he is old enough to independently learn information about his journey & history within and adjacent to this whole family situation.
My heart goes out to the older him. No matter how surrounded he is by love now, one day he will come across this story by himself and he will pull a thread and it will all come tumbling down on & around him emotionally. Even if it is resolved and all parts of the family reunite. This will affect him. Harry wrote about learning there were stories questioning his paternity and how that made him feel, even though Charles said just ignore, as Charles knew there are no questions. I am honestly surprised that Harry & Meghan haven’t acted with more forethought in this situation. They seem to be usually good at thinking in and around a moment. To break generational problems, have they only extended it, unintentionally?
Do you know what it is like to move in a PWI/Space and you are seen mostly through a racial prism?
Yes the RF & the BM & ROTA are terrible in how they approach things and that is a long history predating now. They are behaving no differently now so my expectations of them is low. Yes things should be unmasked but at whose expense?
For Archie, I wish it ends now. We already see that Lillibet is talked about in her white passing – even Harry said that she is more his Mom and Archie is more his wife, with all these conversations around Archie from the day he became an embryo to now, I pray that for him it stops now and a new narrative is built.
“I am honestly surprised that Harry & Meghan haven’t acted with more forethought in this situation.”
Wow. Not judgmental at all.
I find your using the children’ s names to further your agenda disgusting. A narrative that ignores racism is great for the children? The children will understand their parents and grow up loved and healthy unlike the cloaked dysfunctional protected mess they left behind.
I’m going to put this out there. My family ethnicity means we are dark haired, dark eyed, extremely so, with olive skin. My brother married into a Scandinavian family. When my sister in law was pregnant there was a family get together and the couple talked openly, with great joy, about what the baby might look like, especially hair and colouring, given that Mum is incredibly blonde and light skinned. We all agreed it would be a beautiful child, and this speculation was part of a wonderful conversation that some of us had been having, anyway; there was huge anticipation as this was the first grandchild and of two very different ethnicities. So, where I’m going with this is: what was said must have been cruel and sneering, about race, and it must have been in front of Meghan and Harry? (Apols if I’m late to the table on this, and it has been established as definitely remarked about in their presence or relayed at some point later.) I’m of the opinion that it was the kind of remark an elderly would make out loud as if it were funny – Camilla and Anne.
Replying to myself! If it is a younger member of the BRF, yes I can see it being Kate. These older generation attitudes are embedded in families where children don’t get out into the real world and mix. I can imagine Mr and Mrs Middleton being very much of their lower middle class mindset, which was then very insular, and passing on such attitudes to their children. Unfortunately, Kate, being so sheltered, was never exposed to wider society. She is, in a way, still of her parents’ generation. So, I could be nudged towards this being Kate, simply because I can hear Carole Middleton saying such stuff.
If I recall, Michael Middleton’s family was a well-established family and not lower middle class. It’s Carole’s family who was without doubt lower middle class.
@Sparrow — I agree, whatever was said about Archie’s skin colour wasn’t said in a happy, excited way. I also recall a sarcastic comment was made (I think it was ascribed to Camilla) about Archie’s hair and went something like…[I’m paraphrasing BTW]…”Wouldn’t it be funny if he had a ginger afro?!” I can totally see Camilla saying that to Charles, even others, and them all laughing uproariously. Bunch of racist monsters.
Bloody hell. That woman. I didn’t know this but I am not surprised one jot. Do you know who’s getting a free pass? Andrew. Why not him as the male one? He is sliding around in all of this, you can be sure. I’ve just read, tho, that Omid says the BM has known all along it’s Kate and Charles. There is a bond there. I remember when she walked into a church service recently, and he raised her hand and kissed it. It was all a bit de trop. It was a look of ‘we’re in this together’. So, yes, I can kind of see this pair chatting on with bad intent.
I’m dutch and have seen both pages on twitter. The second page mentions Kate.
Seeing the first page in Dutch and English it doesn’t seem like a mistranslation, it looks nothing alike!
Dutch commenters on a story in our news mentioned that translators often get first versions to work with that later get changed? And they forgot to do that here?
Yes, that’s also what I believe. Omid said he never put that on page, but maybe he is protecting himself legally? It makes more sense if the dutch translations were done on a previous draft and they “forgot” to edit this part in the final version.
I’m commenting before reading all the other comments so maybe other people agree with me. I do think a translation mistake explains Charles’ name being there, his name is repeated during those paragraphs a few times and a misplaced punctuation mark could confuse a sentence. Kate is not. IIRC the book mentions the Cambridges both as people that Charles suggested Meghan should discuss things with.
Of course the BM would use any excuse to talk about those supposed names. But who benefits from those names being talked about? Let me adjust my tinfoil tiara now. It’s William. We know he wants to differentiate himself from his father, to pretend he’ll be a more modern king, and we suspect that there’s something off with the Wales’ marriage.
We’ll see what happens and if they try to use legal letters of some sort. I expect Chuck to suddenly have a need to talk to his youngest son, but he’s the one who has Meghan’s letter. If he’s not named in it it’s easy for him to let some friendly journalist see it who can clear his name. It’d be better if he could leak the actual letter to a tabloid, but there’s the pesky issue of Meghan suing and winning when that last happened to her. Kate is the one who has it harder, and she’s also the one that will have the least protection. Oh, so sad.
What a hornet’s nest! If Charles first wrote to Meghan, he could leak his own letter. We know from Meghan’s law suit that Charles would have the copyright to that, yes?
I think so, yes. Maybe that letter didn’t name names? But if it did, and it “leaked” I don’t think Charles could let it go legally unless he wanted to risk more of his private correspondence finding its way to newspaper without fear of reprisal.
Commenting again to say I’ve seen now photos of both pages that include the “naming of names” and in both cases comparing the translated text (with google translate sorry because my Dutch is very limited) makes clear that it’s not badly translated, just different text.
There’s two sections, in the one where Charles is named instead of the sentence about two identities being revealed it says: “But in those private letters an identity was revealed and confirmed: Charles” (Maar in die privébrieven werd een identiteit prijsgegeven en bevestigd: Charles).
Kate is mentioned further ahead in the book, and where in the English version it talks about the “Meghan made Kate cry” story and about how Kate has “jokingly shivered” at Meghan’s name and they haven’t had contact since 2019, the Dutch version seems to set things up differently (coming form a previous page I haven’t seen) and says “…after it was revealed that the King and Princess of Wales had participated in such conversations about Archie, Kate has avoided discussing the subject with her sister-in-law.” (“…nadat onthuld was dat de konning en de prinses van Wales ann zulke gesprekken over Archie hadden deelgenomen, heeft Kate haet gemeden dit onderwerp met haar schoonzus te bespreken.”)
It does look like the translation came from a different draft than the one that was published. And considering that last one, it reads like Kate is named earlier in the book too because otherwise it’s strange it pops up like this. In any case I don’t think it can refer to Camilla like some people suggested because it mentions the king right before her name and it wouldn’t make sense to use that title for her.
Scobie stated that he never wrote anyone’s name in regards to who made the comments.
@Ameerah M Oh, I believe him. Why would he risk it? There’s no way the book would ever be published with those names so it makes sense not to put them there. But in that case, how did those sentences get there?
@Ace – I commented above that something stinks like bribery here. It would have been clear as day which was the final draft if the publishing house indeed had 2 or more drafts.
I believe him as well. There is zero chance he ever sent anything to any publisher, etc. with this information. This is fuckery, of the British royal/rota kind.
I think the only reason Meghan said Kate was a good person was because she felt sorry for her. She probably told herself Kate was just post partum hormonal. And maybe she also heard about the Rose rumors and thought Kate was just acting out.
Now, would she say that TODAY? I doubt it.
💯❗
@Snuffles. I agree!
Meghan also said Kate was “going through something” and cut her some slack because Meghan is a sympathetic person. That something was undoubtedly finding out about William’s *alleged* affair.
True. I remember in the Netflix show – William was on the phone or texted Harry at one point, and Meghan said “your brother”, as if, that twat is the source of all our pain and I’m beyond even listening to it. I too think Meghan sensed Kate was a victim of William’s behaviour. Perhaps Meghan had reached out to Kate who, in all her hurt pride, wouldn’t accept the kindness. For heaven’s sake though – if your husband were having an affair, wouldn’t you want an empathetic woman, like Meghan, in your life. I shall never understand, well I do it’s jealousy, why Kate wanted Meghan out; she could have been a glorious friend and sister in law. But hey the UK’s hatred of Meghan provided a useful smoke screen to William’s affair.
I love this for that family! And the British media, which is basically telling on itself right now, and confirming everything, Megan, Harry, and Omid have been saying.
I can see Camilla grabbing her corded phone just to throw Kate under the bus and Morgan being too happy to protect her.
Does anyone remember that in the Netflix series, when Meghan and Harry were talking about the baby color discussions, they seemed to be talking about different occasions that took place on different days? Meghan seemed to say it happened during the time she was pregnant with Archie, while Harry said it happened before they were married (or something like that, something much earlier in the timeline). It was cited by some as a discrepancy at that time,
Just makes so much sense now that there are multiple names — because there have been more than one occasions! Honestly they are just all racist and must have been making the same comment (probably much worse) behind closed doors. There’s no way William is not part of it. The whole Piers Morgan thing must have gotten his green light to save himself.
This is all just so messy.
First – I don’t think this was meant to be the big reveal of “the” royal racists. If you want something like this leaked, this is a very very weird way of leaking it.
Second – something about this just feels off. Kate was having a conversation with Harry about “concerns” about the skin color? It just makes more sense if it was William AND Kate, like if they had a sit-down with him where they discussed this, maybe before harry was married.
and maybe charles said something when she was pregnant.
I also think that both Harry and Meghan gave charles a lot of grace in that interview, and also after Archie was born (sharing that lovely picture of Harry with Archie and Charles) and such – I feel like if charles had said “i have concerns about how the balcony is going to look with your nonwhite child on it” there wouldn’t have been that grace. I wonder if charles said something racist like we heard reported before – remember there was that story about Camilla wondering if the baby would have an afro or something? I wonder if Charles said something like that and wanted to make sure Meghan WASNT talking about him.
I mean its entirely possible Charles was THE one to have that conversation, I’m not saying that. I just can’t wrap my head around it being Kate and NOT william. Again I’m not saying Kate wouldn’t have said it, I just don’t think she would have done it without William.
Unless she was sent to Harry to present the joint Cambridge concerns??
Maybe William mentioned to Harry that conversations had been had and mentioned other people’s concerns, like Kate’s and pa’s. Not to say that William wasn’t talking about it too but that he may have spoken to Harry in a way that made it sound like others were saying this but of course not him. To gauge Harry’s reaction and to use them as proxies for his own feelings. Idk, it’s honestly all a mess.
You know, that might make the most sense. William puts on his passive aggressive “caring brother” hat (which is just manipulative, not caring) and says “you know Harold, there are some concerns about this. I’m not saying I have concerns, oh no no no, not me, but I was talking to Pa yesterday and…….” and then “and even Kate thinks you’re not thinkign this through, what will this mean for the institution?!?!”
So all William but relaying it as though it wasnt him.
I think you might be right. I’ve always thought the two racists were William and Anne (mostly because William and Anne are secure in their positions within the family, having rights by birth, and therefore more likely to feel empowered to make racist comments). But if William is one of the two, I’m sure the palace is wondering when and where this happened. If they have the dates and times, it would point back to William as the one who spoke to Harry that day. So maybe (1) William and Kate were together, so it’s plausible for the palace to say Kate is the racist; and (2) even if Kate was not there, she would take the fall for William because she’s shown to put up with anything William does, including cheating, screaming and throwing things at her, or she simply doesn’t have a choice in the matter and is being reminded that she’s expendable anyway.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I’m going to believe Piers that Charles and Kate expressed concern about Archie’s skin color because I’m sure that they did. The part that doesn’t make sense is that Meghan went out of her way to say that Kate was “a good person” and Harry expressed so much love and tenderness for “Pa” in Spare. For these reasons, I’m suspicious of Camilla and William the most.
Oh what tangled webs we weave (sobbed Charlie to the spider 😂🕸️🕸️.
I love, love, love this. They can deny all they want, they can twist and turn but, who will they sacrifice now their usual scapegoat is safe at home in montecito!
So the Palace is dismayed is it, well the “palace” maybe, but, camzilla is sat at Raymill pissing herself laughing and sat along side her is Billy boy! Billy can now be a kate free zone and of course he now has his new “valet” ahem, for company, camzilla knows she is now the only one with Charlie’s ear and money, so her military style action to be top of the Royal tree is successful! They can deny all they want, but, the sheen went of the monarchy a year ago, Charlie, not Harry has destroyed it, and I for one, can’t wait for it’s final gasp.
Truth will out!!!
I think they had Piers get it out there so the speculation would end and they could get on with weathering the resulting news cycle. Once it’s clear it’s going to happen, it’s their best chance for getting through it…lop off the weeks of speculation and go straight to the hard part. I’m not sure if they have a plan for responding but if they haven’t had one drawn up for a couple of years they need new PR people. And if they are anything but contrite and apologetic in their responses they need new PR people too. I mean really, they just need new PR people. But we will see how it goes.
I agree with the notion that these names are a distraction from who really did say something. I also agree that the names don’t matter because they surely all talked about this but who would have had the gall to actually bring it up to Harry and Meghan? KC? Yes. Kate? No. Camilla? No. William? Yes. My guess is that Camilla put this out there. She figured Charles would be forgiven because he is the king. It would be much more dangerous for her to be named plus that’s not how she rolls. She needs to look good no matter what. She didn’t want to dirty William and figured Kate would be easy to forgive or at least forget about since she isn’t a royal by blood. So there you have it. It was Charles and William with lots of cackling from Kate and Camilla.
HuffnPuff – Astute analysis.
Kind of amazed how many people get suckered in by PMoron – wouldn’t surprise me to learn he leaked names to Dutch publisher just so he could report on it. Also kind of amazed at how nobody’s calling out the DailyFail lie: “Meghan Markle first made the claim in the Sussexes’ infamous 2021 Oprah Winfrey interview when she revealed there were ‘several conversations’ between herself, Harry and Royal Family members about ‘how dark’ Archie’s skin would be.” During the interview, Meghan NEVER said there were skin color conversations with other royals that included herself.
Kate’s favorite drink is the crack baby … I can totally believe she’s one of the royals who made the racist comment.
Also, she’s in trouble.
I hope that someone in the media talks about how completely whitewashed the royals are. These are people with no POC friends they consider peers. None of them have ever stepped outside their white, aristo world and shown any curiousity about anyone else. I’ll bet the royals had a big problem with Diana getting so close to all those “coloreds” (the queen used to wear gloves when shaking hands.) They want to reign over POCs but they don’t have any desire to befriend any. That was a real missed opportunity for William in college. he should have been encouraged to befriend people different from him, as part of his job as future king.
There are many many pictures of Kate shying away from black people. She avoided POCs because she was such a social climber aristo wannabe. But neither she nor Camilla have shown any interest in building friendships or relationships with POC women,
You can’t claim to want to be the head of a multinational organization while showing absolutely zero interest in the lived experiences of people outside your tiny circle. They need to drop their international aspirations if they want to continue to act like colonizers. They can’t “impress the natives” by wearing tiaras anymore (they likely never did, but that pretense no longer can stand).
All of this, lanne. ALL of this.
Brava! @lanne, THIS. ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾
lanne – All true, but I would change:
“These are people with no friends they consider peers.”
Hierarchy.
I dunno about Kate being the second person though I wouldn’t be surprised. But Charles being one of the people who made comments about Archie’s skin tone, that tracks. OR it was Camilla. Why else would Meghan write a letter directly to him about it? He was angry and frustrated that they revealed that to Oprah and the whole world and he and Meghan had correspondence discussing what he and/or Camilla said. I don’t think Charles would have reached out to Meghan if it had been William or Kate. He doesn’t need or want to protect them, anything that makes him look good he will leave alone.
I am surprised Piers is being so casual about revealing who he thinks they are. But I dunno, I don’t trust that man.
LOL, there is going to be “an inquiry” now 😀
I also just remembered the story about Charles wondering out loud what the H and M’s baby would look like at breakfast and later it was said Camilla joked they would have red afros. Charles and Camilla were outed back in 2021. I think this conversation was the before the wedding microaggression and it didn’t put Meghan off marriage. However, the skin color remark was during Meghan’s pregnancy was more cutting because a real child was on the way. The remark probably came from the Will and Kate’s side and presented as concern about the optics of a dark skinned prince. However the skin color issue has to be viewed in line with the Sussexes concern that their children would not get a prince title and would not receive security. Their fight at the time was with Charles, his cutting them off financially, removing security and not recognizing Archie as a prince.
I don’t like how they’re once again trying to blame this on Meghan and saying she leaked this, even though she already issued a statement on this back in April and both her and the palace sent legal letters to the journalist Valentine Low who said she leaked it, to the point he had to walk it back and apologize. Glad the Sussexes are ignoring this. Why Morgan would open his big mouth over this and make it about him is really bad judgement. Maybe KP should sue him. Scobie says everyone in the press knows who it was already.
What I find curious is how the focus quickly shifted from how and by whom the “racists” names were planted in the Dutch version to Pierce Morgan naming them. Scobie didn’t include it in his book, I doubt H&M leaked to the Dutch, so it must be a move by one of the “royal senior members” or a collusion by the 2 named in Meg’s letter.
Meg writes a grievance letter to Charles, so that he can, in my view intercede. Per H&M, Charles advises Meg to speak to Kate. Could it be so she can speak to Willie and help defuse?? As if…
I think the real, still unnamed culprits are Willie the Meanie and the Rottweiler. I am betting the Palace senior aides orchestrated the Dutch book fiasco. RF “utterly dismayed”?? Suing? Please…
Cam, is the puppet master and by using Morgan, inadvertently showed her hand. Charles the Weak is taking the “fall” for Cam and Kate is being pushed under the bus for Willie. Kate, whether she is aware of it or not, now has leverage and can use it to negotiate anything she wants. What a mangled web….
“Utterly dismayed” + “considering legal action” does not equate to a denial.
The above comment was from me.
She’s probably negotiated extra jewels and pda from Bulliam to take the flack
This. I think she’s the most popular royal, and this would be the least damaging for her because her fans and the RR could cover her in “she would never” pearl clutching. In the narrative of the Big Bad vs the Damsel in Distress, Will’s wife is always the damsel. They drew the speculation away Wills and poured it on the two of them because the two of them can absorb the body blows better than their spouses. Will’s wife remains in it to win it so she’ll get some new frocks, some fresh injections, maybe access to some jewelry and some public PDA as a reward.
This play will work with royalists, but the Wikipedia page and footnotes are growing, and the world is watching. And hopefully so is David Sherbone and Harry’s other attorneys as they prepare for the trials.
Listen, if Carole Middleton’s debts mysteriously go away in the next few months, we may have an answer😂. Kate took one for the firm. At the same time, it coulda just been her. I’d still be surprised if William is the only innocent in all this. Mostly, though, it’s William’s actions with Christian Jones that are the most damaging and that’s not getting much air time in the BM due to this. Convenient.
I aid this above, but I’m hoping more people see this. NO ONE SAID THERE WAS ONLY ONE PERSON. That’s not to shout, it’s to get some attention. Harry had conversationsS about this, but not just regarding security. It also came up BEFORE the wedding.
I think there were a group of people regarding this. Yes, I’m sure Cant was part of that. That woman is incapable of keeping her emotions to herself. IMO she would never pull her punches when talking about anyone she believes she is so far superior to. So, yes, I can believe it was WanK, KFC and the Escort, and palace sycophants.
I think this is just narrowing the number of people in the brf who were part of all of this. Don’t fall for the hype.
Legal action against whom? Piers Morgan? Isn’t that a little like suing yourself?
And these people think they are born *special* thus better than others? Not sure about married in commoners. How they rank. People are so bad. We are ALL special.
Greetings Fellow Citizens,
This has been a long time coming. At last ….
My personal take on this may be rather unusual however, there are 3 ways this came from the KCIII and one of the The Toxic two (who of course are Bill and his Mrs). Just so you know who I am referring to.
When it was first raised I figured out who I thought it was from the get-go – who would be stupid enough to say it and then who would be devious enough to have it “leaked” for want of a better word. Thus wielding power within, along with trantrums, and faked indignation – Billy boy of course.
My thoughts and observations are these:
1. A conversation would have been had (words only) between KCIII & Bill’s Mrs as a passing remark – Bill may have been there and made a mental note – seeming to agree but actually making sure his big ears were protected. Hearing but not hearing.
Quite a bit like putting Harry up to wearing that offensive costume which Bill was going to wear for that Africa Party thing, so Prince Harry took the rap.
2. The Toxic two get back to whichever expensive hole they were scheming in – had a another “talk” about it and of course the the Bald one along with his Infantile Mrs thought it best to deny everything (but when the Bald one snapped at the Press Question you knew it was close to the bone) and his Mrs scuttled away of course with the “oh…, not us, not me…” thinking her Toxic husband and Father in Law would have her back if it ever came out.
No matter what secrets are stashed away in Katies notebook – they are not enough to protect her from what she was party to.
3. It has now been given the light of day – lo and behold the two I thought all along – named and now Baldy has the perfect position to nail the pair of them. Very Machiavellian, but it damages the two people Bill has long gripes with – both his Father and his annoying Infantile Mrs.
Perfect set up, what more could a full-blown Narcissist want? It is he who will come out smelling of eco Roses by a long shot.
As for Piers – he believes it all the way to the moon and back even though his award winning denial of it was written all over his face. The Wrath of this bunch of tossers is the least of his worries. What joy it was ….
“The recollections may very comment” is a side issue – both KCIII and Infantile Kate are done like the dogs dinner. Bill gets his way – case in point hammering Prince Harry until he could take no more and kept at it, tried to get Prince Andrew out of the way (remembering that his Mrs didn’t want him anywhere near her kids etc) the uniform tantrums when it came to Funerals, and any other petty thing that Billy wanted done. Just look at the state of them at the tinfoil Coronation – who came in last taking away from the Centre Piece KCIII?
The best leverage was knowing of the comments made and who made them.
Watching this play out until the cows come home will be carefully constructed half-truths, carefully selected engagements, full out victim mode for the Infantile Mrs, followed by the rattling of the jewelry as it is being stashed in all of the Aspinall bags that Katie has to make sure that she wears before time is up on this lot of grifters.
Feel free to dissect this, agree, disagree but rest assured the Truth is out – the damage control will be like using a teaspoon to stop a waterfall.
Have a wonderful day or evening wherever you are –
The Wild Rose
Only reason Morgan would be doing this would be to indirectly cause more harm to Harry and Meghan which is his sole purpose in life .
He knows people will support Kate whatever she does wrong .
She is always protected like a child .
By doing this it will stop the focus on other parts of the book describing the hell Meghan went through.
He is very dangerous and he wants Meghan to come to harm , it’s a dreadful situation and this book will only make the situation worse .
My heart aches for this family , the Royal Rota and Royal Family are evil and the consequences are very scary .
I think it was Will leaking, he is just as much as prisoner as Kate in that awful marriage, but he really is stuck between his father and her rules. Disdain and misery looks like to me they are as thick pea soup. Harry is right, they are stuck… Will wants out. Eyes bleeding thinking of his kinks lol vanilla Kate beard for his abusive father and f-d up egos.
The Royal racists are Camilla and William.
Reported a few hours ago (in US) that when asked, H & M declined to comment. Good for them. And what would they possibly say? Better to keep quiet and let the BM & RF squirm and twist in the wind, imo.
The people twisting themselves into pretzel on here trying make William the racist is insane. Will is mostly likely a hot headed selfish bully, but has never done anything that I’ve seen (as a black person) to make me believe he is racist. I think he is a classist equal opportunity asshole.
On the other hand? KC has done things that were racist/unconscious bias like telling some lady “she doesn’t look like she is from Manchester.” Helping people of color through his charity means nothing. People entertain people they would never allow in their family. Also, it’s all PR.
Kate has recoiled with black people have tried to touch her. The Lebron thing I will give her a pass bc I think he may have been sweaty and I don’t want sweaty people touching me either, but the Caribbean women touching her and her recoiling seems racist. No one including her mother made her that way. No one influenced her. This infantilization of this 40 year where you act like it couldn’t possibly be her bc you hate Will so much is crazy.
This book was written after the Queen died so the author is calling him King Charles because that is his current title and if it was Camilla they would have used Queen Camilla since they used King Charles.
Will is just an asshole, Kate and KC are racist assholes.
You can’t possibly believe that Will isn’t as racist as the rest, can you? After how he was trying to get Harry not to marry Meghan? After he said, “I already have a nephew,” when asked about how he felt about being an uncle? After Will’s misdeeds always being covered up? After he wanted to exile them to Africa? Etc.? He’s just an ass and not a racist? C’mon now.
@PoppedBubble Just because he didn’t want her to marry her so fast after meeting doesn’t make him racist. She was an American Actress and divorce. He may have thought she’s wasn’t good enough because of her class. He was the 1st person to condemn that Hussey lady, when Harry was saying how much M&H liked her. I don’t get racist just entitled rich asshole.
Yes l have to agree with you here , William.is a spoilt entitled man but l honestly cant say l think he is a racist. He liked Megan at first but then unfortunately his jealously kicked in. I know people will.disagree with me here but l.do feel.a tad sorry for him, his stuck with Kate , her family for Life !!!
The more I think about it the more it makes sense that Kate was the racist. I think she was the most threatened by Meghan and wasn’t expecting them to get pregnant so soon. She probably thought she would have more time to break up the marriage. So I can imagine her going to the top and saying whatever racist shit she said about an unborn baby, just so they would ‘do something’ about Meghan to get rid of her. Kate is so nasty, but her evil ways are the reasons she’s got this far. I really hope her miserable life was worth all of this.
Poor royalists/derangers are so confused on xwitter. They are all happy about the racism of their favs and love the recollections may vary but are flummoxed about how to deal with the fact that the RF/RR have confirmed that recollections actually didn’t vary even a tiny bit. It’s fun right now over there. lol.