Around the coronation last year, there was an interesting and macabre discussion about what would happen if Queen Camilla survived her husband. The Windsors and their staff make all kinds of contingency plans, and obviously they are dealing with a king and consort in their 70s, so I understand why the courtiers were already considering what would happen if X, Y or Z happened. In any case, the courtiers seemed to settle on the idea that if Camilla survives her husband, her new title would be Dowager Queen Camilla. What goes unsaid is that the title and style a widowed Camilla would receive will be largely up to King William, and I even suggested last year that William would probably prefer something like Dowager Consort. I was reminded of that story and conversation this week because, following King Charles’s cancer diagnosis, friends of Charles and Camilla claim that Charles is more concerned about Camilla than himself.
The King will be most concerned for the Queen in the wake of his cancer diagnosis, his closest friends have said. Dame Julia Cleverdon, who served as chief executive of one of the King’s charity organisations when he was Prince of Wales, and Lord Dobbs, a friend of Their Majesties, discussed the repercussions of the King’s health revelation on the rest of the Royal family.
Dame Julia, who worked closely with the monarch while running Business in the Community, said: “The real heroine it seems to me in all of this is Queen Camilla, who he will be most concerned, I suspect, about the effect on her and the conversations and the load that she will take as he goes through his treatment.”
The King began regular treatment at a London hospital on Monday, as an outpatient, but has not revealed what type of cancer he has or what kind of treatment he is undergoing. However, the Palace confirmed that he did not have prostate cancer after the illness was discovered during his corrective surgery for a benign enlarged prostate.
Dame Julia, who was also a special adviser to the Prince’s Charities, the King’s non-profit organisation, is such a trusted friend of the monarch’s that within hours of Princess Diana’s death, he rang her for advice on how to speak to his two sons. She has gradually reduced her workload over the years but at one point was said to speak to the then heir to the throne twice a day. She was appointed DCVO at the personal direction of the late Queen Elizabeth II in 2008.
Dame Julia told the Today programme that the King “loves to work” and will be “very disappointed at the disruption to his plans” from his cancer diagnosis.
“He will be awash with the things that he can’t do as he steps back, but he will be absolutely clear and totally determined to do everything he can to recover fast and well,” she added.
The 73-year-old also hailed the support that the rest of the Royal family has shown him, including his sister the Princess Royal, the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh and the Waleses.
“I’m absolutely sure that this reign will continue…and that he will be A, knowledgeable, B, determined and C, absolutely clear that the show will go on,” she said.
Putting aside my personal feelings about the monarchy, it’s going to be hard on both Charles and Camilla and they have my sympathy. I also think Charles is very concerned about Camilla, and I’m sure people inside the monarchy are concerned too. Camilla has always “managed” Charles and his moods, and a lot of what comes next will fall on her shoulders. And that’s always tough, to be the spouse of someone going through a big medical situation or illness. Add to that, there will be the expectation that Camilla balance being there for Charles and trying to cover for him at public events. It’s a lot to put on a 76-year-old woman. The reason I mentioned the “what if Camilla survives her husband” issue is because I bet that’s also something concerning both Charles and Camilla – while Camilla has gathered a lot of power in recent years, so much of it is dependent on her proximity to Charles and the crown.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images.
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- Nairobi, Kenya, 01 November 2023: Britain’s Queen Camilla (center) is presented with Masai traditional regalia, by Masai women during a visit to the Brooke Donkey Sanctuary in Nairobi, Kenya. The equine welfare charity Brooke is working with the Kenya Society for the Protection and Care of Animals (KSPCA) to rescue donkeys at risk, and promote their welfare.,Image: 818762439, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: ***NO UK USE FOR 48 HOURS***, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: BEN STANSALL / Avalon
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- Image Licensed to i-Images Picture Agency. 07/11/2023. London, United Kingdom. State Opening Parliament. The State Opening of Parliament in London.,Image: 820415032, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: Licenced to i-Images Picture Agency. All Rights Reserved. UK copyright law applies to all print & online publications. i-Images space rates apply to all images. Magazines contact agency for fees before use. Images Single use only then repro fees apply. Inf, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Martyn Wheatley / i-Images / Avalon
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- Britain’s King Charles III sits besides Queen Camilla during the State Opening of Parliament at the Palace of Westminster in London, Tuesday, Nov. 7, 2023. King Charles III sits on a gilded throne and will read out the King’s Speech, a list of planned laws drawn up by the Conservative government and aimed at winning over voters ahead of an election next year.,Image: 820442702, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WPA POOL ALL IN, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Kirsty Wigglesworth / Avalon
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- London, UK 07th Nov 2023. HRH King Charles III and Queen Camilla in the carriage. The Royal Procession and carriage, on the procession route following the King’s Speech and State Opening of Parliament .,Image: 820443545, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Imageplotter / Avalon
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- His Majesty King Charles III and Queen Camilla during the State Opening of Parliament in London, England, UK, 07 November 2023,Image: 820447866, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: Licenced to i-Images Picture Agency. All Rights Reserved. UK copyright law applies to all print & online publications. i-Images space rates apply to all images. Magazines contact agency for fees before use. Images Single use only then repro fees apply. Info@i-images.co Tel: 07860204379, *** NO UK USE FOR 48 HRS ***, Model Release: no, Credit line: Martyn Wheatley / i-Images / Avalon
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- King Charles III and Queen Camilla arrive at a state banquet at State House in Nairobi, on day one of the State Visit to Kenya. Featuring: Camilla Queen Consort, King Charles III Where: Nairobi, Kenya When: 31 Oct 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- King Charles III, as Captain General of the Royal Marines, and Queen Camilla, during a visit to Mtongwe Naval Base in Mombasa, for a ceremonial welcome and to watch the Kenya Marines, trained by His Majesty’s Royal Marines, demonstrating a covert beach landing, showing defence collaboration in action, on day three of the state visit to Kenya. Featuring: King Charles III, Camilla Queen Consort Where: Kuruwitu, Kenya When: 02 Nov 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- King Charles III and Queen Camilla at the Palace of Westminster during the State Opening of Parliament in the House of Lords, London. Featuring: King Charles III, Queen Camilla Where: London, United Kingdom When: 07 Nov 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- King Charles III and Queen Camilla at the Palace of Westminster during the State Opening of Parliament in the House of Lords, London. Featuring: King Charles III, Queen Camilla Where: London, United Kingdom When: 07 Nov 2023 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
Neither Queen Mary (QEII’s grandmother), nor Queen Elizabeth (The Queen Mother) were styled Dowager Queens or Consorts. Technically they (and Camilla would be) were Queen Dowagers but that’s not how they’re styled nor addressed. The time for punitive action RE Camilla was before they sat the crown on her head. Give it up. She’s Queen. That’s how being married to a king works.
Who exactly are you addressing? Because no one here is denying her title. But her power does in fact depend on being like you said – married to the King. If the King is no longer around…The women you mentioned kept their titles but had no real power after their husbands died.
I’m commenting on something in the article. I’m addressing the same audience as everyone else.
And Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth had the benefit of actually being the mother of the monarch. I think William will do whatever he wants to do. If he wants Camilla to have the Dowager Queen Consort title, then that’s what will happen. I’ve seen nothing thus far in his life to convince me otherwise.
it is kind of a funky and unusual situation, because she’s queen, but not the mother of the next ruler. The last time something like this happened, was when Queen Victoria took the throne at age 18 after her uncle died. His wife was called queen dowager, because she had been married to the king, but was not the mother of the next ruler.
I thought Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon was the only one ever styled as “Queen Mother?” I could be wrong, but I thought I read that the style was created for her?
This bit of conversation reminds me of a line from Young Victoria starring Emily Blunt. The woman playing Victoria’s mother is excited when V ascends and is saying she’s now the Queen Mother and a courtier says, no, you’re the Queen’s mother. It’s not the same. 😁
In fact, it was the usage of the phrase Queen Mother in that time period that struck me as anachronistic and made me research Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon.
@MiniorityReport – The title ‘Queen Mother” was created for Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon because her daughter was now “The Queen Elizabeth”. A new title was needed for Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon so no one (couriters, press…etc..etc…) would mix up the two Queen Elizabeths.
@tampabay, that’s what I thought. I’m just saying precedent would have Camilla still being addressed as Queen Camilla even after Charles passes. I guess they can say she has to stick Dowager in front because she didn’t give birth to William, but I think that logic is dodgy and only being used because no one likes Camilla.
Personally, even though I don’t love Camilla, I dislike changing the “rules” just because people dislike the actual person in the role. It’s the same justification the BRF and the rota use to justify the way they disrespect the Sussexes. The titles don’t mean anything in and of themselves, but they mean something to the people bending the rules to snub whomever the establishment feels isn’t worthy of holding them. That’s what I take issue with.
@MinorityReport – Camilla will remain “Queen Camilla” and Wiggington will be “Queen Katherine”. There is not an official British title of “Queen Dowager” or “Dowager Queen”.
I guess the biggest difference is that Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth (Q Mum) were the biological mothers of the Monarch. QCC is not.
Charles will leave her almost all of his private fortune and William will cut her loose. Will he pressure her to, say, move to France? No, but she and her own children will be out the door.
“The reason I mentioned the “what if Camilla survives her husband” issue”
Camilla will retreat into the arms of her ex-husband, Andrew Parker-Bowles.
I definitely agree with that. Camilla better hope Chuckles doesn’t kick the bucket before he creates some dukedoms for Tom and Andrew PB.
I doubt Andrew Parker-Bowles wants and/or is interested in a peerage.
However, Tom Parker-Bowles is a completely different matter.
FYI: Brigadier Andrew Parker Bowles, first husband of the Queen, is the son of Derek Henry Parker-Bowles (who assumed his mother’s maiden surname of Bowles), grandson of Reverend the Hon. Algernon Robert Parker, third son of the sixth Earl of Macclesfield. Consequently, he is in distant remainder to the earldom and its subsidiary titles.
I always see comments on here that she’s got some kind of big plan for taking over everything. I don’t see that at all. I think all of her machinations (including selling out Harry and William) was to try and get good press for the moment. I can’t stand the woman-but she absolutely knows how to manage Charles and they do seem to adore each other and “get” each other. Once he goes she’s going to be Dowager and ship herself happily off to Mill House to hang out with her g & ts, read her books, watch her shows and be with her family and friends. I don’t expect her to have (or want) any kind of big profile. William won’t need to “exile” her-she’ll do it to herself.
This exactly! I’m sure Charles has made financial considerations for Camilla and her family. Camilla will be fine. She will get the perks of being Queen without having to do the tours and the royal events. But it does beg the question of the even slimmer royal family. I often wonder if Anne is watching all this and thinking its time for her to retire. Shes the only one with her own income who doesn’t actually have to suck up to the King. I think she supports her brother but wondering how long she would do it for WIlliam.
I think Anne is cut from the same cloth as her parents. She will be Princess Royal and do her duty until her dying day. She will do it for the Crown as an institution-not for William personally.
MaryContrary, I agree 100% with you. Anne, as Princess Royal, will be a full time working Royal until her dying day.
Absolutely agree.
My comment was for marycontrary
I think her goal was to amass as much good press for herself as possible to secure her Queen title and Charles’ reign. She achieved both. I honestly don’t even think she LIKES being Queen. She seems bored of it all less than two years in. I DO think she worries how the press will treat her if she outlives Charles. And I think that is a valid concern. Because despite all of the press machinations to whitewash her and Charles’ romance – people still overall dislike her. So I can definitely see her retiring to Mill House and not really being out and about much. But outside of that – she’ll be fine. And may be happy to no longer be obligated to do Royal events.
She always has been his top priority, so nothing new here. It’s just … interesting … that he cares more about her than the legacy of the Crown (e.g., getting William sorted).
If you think about it, he’s always prioritized Camilla over the legacy of the crown, or she wouldn’t be queen now.
My thoughts exactly. I frequently feel that Charles doesn’t care what William does, because he thinks William is more Diana’s legacy than Charles’s.
Yup, my thoughts exactly! It totally tracks that Charles would be concerned much more with Camilla than, say, his own sons or the stability of the monarchy.
“King Charles is most concerned about Camilla” – and I reckon Camilla is most concerned about Camilla. She always looks after herself. Charles will leave her, her kids, and grandkids well looked after financially – unlike his own progeny. (Charles’ lawyers: ‘Archie who?’)
It will be very interesting to see if William does follow his father to the throne, and whether he will seek revenge on her for dividing his family, and what form that would take. She’s been active in a career that saw her driving wedges between Charles & Diana, Charles and his sons, and the sons against each other. She set out to ruin everything Diana had and was successful.
She has the ear of so many tabloid reporters… how much of that is still going to be available to her after Charles is lowered into his tomb?
Wondering the same thing: if William were to go after her, what would her life be like? And could she fight back?
I have a hunch that Camilla and Ray Mill and Andrew Parker Bowles will all do just fine. My guess is that she’ll bow out of public life, and the title will only matter if it helps her to secure benefits for her kids and her grandchildren.
That’s how I see it. I can only guess that Charles has somehow set her up financially. She won’t have to do royal events anymore and she’ll chill at her house. And phone all her friends in the tabloids on the regular. That said, William as king is a scary thought. Camilla probably has secrets on him that’s she’s keeping as collateral bc he likely hates her guts and given the chance will find ways to take her down a peg. Or down a hundred pegs.
Exactly this. She will use it bts to secure things for her family. But outside of that I think she doesn’t care about living a public life.
As I stated above:
“Camilla will retreat into the arms of her ex-husband, Andrew Parker-Bowles.”
The great love of Camilla’s life is and always will be Andrew Parker-Bowles. This is also true of Mrs. Timothy Laurence…aka….The Princess royal. LOL!
Having watched my sister and dad both pass last year after slow declines and the emotional hell it put their spouses through, I don’t lack sympathy. On the other hand, this is what Camillia wanted. Being queen to a geriatric, workaholic king was going require more from you than day drinking and garden parties.
My deepest condolences. May their memory be a blessing to you.
That’s Chuckles big problem he is concerned for Camz and nobody else. He should have cared about Peg and reined him in but no. He should have cared about Harry but he shoved him away. Well now it’s just Camz and she is old.
Charles often, and particularly in this, has always reminded me of Edward VII something I’m sure the rest of the royal family does its best to ignore
She’ll be fine. I’m sure the King has provided for her and her children in a way that he hasn’t for his own son.
She’ll just day drink the rest of her life away in the country at her home and likely be a persona non grata in King William’s court. They’ll dust her off and stick her on the balcony two or three times a year. She’ll probably help herself to the royal vaults, so they may want to check her pockets and her purse before she’s booted out of whatever palace she’s in. But she won’t starve.
If Dame Julia was the one who told Charles to tell Harry about his mother’s sudden catastrophic death by patting an 11-year old child on the knee and then walking away, I’d say she was exactly the wrong person to ask!
That’s what struck me from this, too!
I also mentioned this in a later post that same Julia gave bad advice
I suspect Camilla was more concerned that Charles wouldn’t out-live Elizabeth. Since Charles did become king after all, I doubt she has much worries anymore about his death. Maybe that’s cold, but that whole family is cold
As for the case of Camilla surviving Charles – the opposite could also happen. Many people have noticed that she sometimes exhibits a form of tremors in public, often when she’s nervous or under pressure.
Well, yes, Camilla could definitely go first. But there’s no gossip angle to that. We know what would happen! Charles retains his title of king, he’ll have a government provided stipend (I think they call it the…sovereign grant?), and William will shuttle him off to High Grove or Sandringham to talk to plants and never be heard from again. (This is all tongue in cheek.) 😂
I have no worries for Camilla – she has her own estate (not a grace and favour one), she’ll have plenty of money, and she never lost her connections amongst the aristocracy. She will probably keep doing exactly what she’s doing now, visiting a few organizations that she’s interested in, chatting with people and not having to travel much. She won’t have to go to Kate’s Christmas concert or be photographed walking to church, all wins in my book.
The only difference is that she probably won’t have access to the royal jewels anymore.
The real question is how much of the jewelry will go with Camilla if Charles dies first because unless Elizebeth’s will changed it the majority of the jewels are personal property. Only 2 of the tiara’s that the Queen wore are known to be part of the royal collection instead of personal property
Just my personal opinion with absolutely nothing to back it up, I think Charles would pony up the dough to buy Camilla her own jewels before leaving her anything publicly associated with the crown. He didn’t spend decades and millions rehabbing her image to throw it away over that easily avoidable scandal.
The jewelry doesn’t belong to her or Charles. It belongs to the Crown. So the jewels will stay at BP. QEII’s will decided who got her personal jewels and I have a feeling she would not leave them to Camilla lol. She probably left them to the Crown like her mother and grandmother did. Which means they would pass to whoever was next in line.
As I said the majority of the jewelry worn by QEII belonged to her personal collection, the fraction that belongs to the Crown is very small
She’ll still have a huge personal collection since Charles bought a lot of jewels privately for Camilla over the years aside from whatever remains in the royal collection. He also inherited the queen mother’s personal jewelry, a lot of which he gave to Camilla including her engagement ring.
Camilla is like a parasitic wasp. She’d survive Armageddon.
It seems very clear Charles summoned the Chancellors of State to Clarence House yesterday excluding William and siblings, Andrew, Edward & Anne. Something is up. Perhaps Cam agreed to bury the hatchet with Harry and the Yorks. All the family including those further down the line of succession stand to loose when William comes to the throne. Maybe it became necessary with Kate’s illness & William’s absense to discuss alternate regents for Charles because William refuses to deal with it. Moreover maybe they discussed a regency for William as well because he may suffer from permanent cognitive disability that makes him unfit. Clearly the prospect of the Wales kids being raised by the Middletons is setting off alarms & Will doesn’t seem capable despite his claims about putting family first.
I thought Camilla us friendly with ferg ie
My toxic trait is hoping that Camilla writes a book if Charles goes first. Not likely to happen, but can you imagine the secrets she knows!!
I hope not it would be.anti Diana propaganda and digs at Harry and Meghan. Generally monarchs and consort have authorized biographies written about them after they die.
Dame Julia apparently did not give Charles good advice on how to speak to his sons after their mother died. Considering Harry’s experiences at that time that he wrote in spare.
Having a cancer diagnosis is a shock for anyone and for someone already elderly it will inevitably bring thoughts about mortality and those who would be left behind. However, the press speculation and assumptions of a short reign are premature. Prince Philip had several ailments in his later years including prostate cancer. He lived to 99. Queen Elizabeth had a form of cancer and other health problems. She lived to 96. Her mother had colon cancer when she was in her sixties and breast cancer when she was in her eighties. She lived to 101.