One of the weird things about the Windsors’ racism and white supremacy is that those clowns completely freaked out about what to call the first mixed-race children in the modern royal family. As we now know, when the Duchess of Sussex was pregnant with Archie, then-Prince Charles and the current Princess of Wales were having open conversations about “how dark” the baby would be and what his skin color would “mean.” Charles made a big point of telling Harry and Meghan that their children would not have royal titles, and that he planned to change the Letters Patent when he became king, specifically to deny prince/princess titles to their children. All of which meant that when Archie was born, he was title-free and given the surname “Mountbatten-Windsor.” Lilibet Diana was also born a Mountbatten-Windsor.
Then QEII died and King Charles suddenly realized that it would look pretty bad to change the Letters Patent, so Lili and Archie became princess and prince the moment their grandfather became king. Lili was even christened as Princess Lilibet. As it turns out, that wasn’t the only change. Now that Archie and Lili are going to school, they’re not using Mountbatten-Windsor as their surname. They’re using Sussex. Lili Sussex and Archie Sussex!!! From a very interesting piece in the Times of London:
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have rebranded their website to “unify” their family after their children started using the Sussex title. Rather than being known as the Mountbatten-Windsors, Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet had been known as Archie Sussex and Lilibet Sussex since the coronation, a source said — in the same way that Harry was known as Captain Wales when he was in the army.
On Monday, Harry and Meghan released Sussex.com, a rebranded website that is understood to have taken a year to build. However, it came under criticism for using the couple’s coat of arms. Insiders say that the aim of the rebrand is to bring all the couple’s projects — and both their children — under the same umbrella website. Their foundation and production company are called Archewell, inspired by their four-year-old son’s name. However, the new website is thought to be intended to be inclusive of both children.
After publishing his autobiography Spare, which detailed a childhood of being treated as a less-important “spare” to the “heir”, the Sussexes are said to be keen not to discriminate against their own second-born, two-year-old Lilibet.
A source said: “The reality behind the new site is very simple — it’s a hub for the work the Sussexes do and it reflects the fact the family have, since the King’s coronation, the same surname for the first time. That’s a big deal for any family. It represents their unification and it’s a proud moment.”
[The website] uses the coat of arms that Meghan was issued with when she married into the royal family. While some reports have questioned the legitimacy of the Sussexes using the coat of arms on their promotional website, a royal insider said: “It isn’t any sort of problem for the rest of the royal family. It hasn’t even been part of a conversation. Harry is more concerned about the health and wellbeing of the King and Kate and thinks that is where the focus should be. There certainly hasn’t been any problem raised about the use of a coat of arms by anyone at the royal household — why would they object when it’s perfectly normal and is pretty routine? Lots of people are familiar with the Duchy of Cornwall products in the shops and there are about 800 companies using the royal warrant coat of arms for commercial reasons.”
“Sussex.com is just an umbrella for good causes like [Harry’s organisations] Sentebale, Invictus and Travelyst and separates them out from the non-profit Archewell foundation and Archewell Productions, which is a profit-for-good company. There’s no use of the word ‘royal’ on the site for a good reason — to ensure there could be no conflict with anyone’s wishes.”
Isn’t this some straight reporting from the Times! Someone wanted it on the record that if the royals wanted to say something about sussex.com, they needed to speak to Harry directly. Harry will take their collective silence as the go-ahead. And yes, thanks to the source for pointing out all of the royal warrant coat of arms and the Duchy Originals line. Anyway, I’m really excited to hear that Archie and Lili are using Sussex as a surname, and I love that H&M wanted something which is more inclusive of Lili, their little gingersnap spare.
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Photos courtesy of Netflix, Misan Harriman/The Sussexes.
It’s a smart move for so many reasons, not the least of which is roll call at school. Archie/Lily Sussex is much less historically weighty than Mounbattan-Windsor.
Also, as a former preschool teacher who helped kids learn to spell and write their names? So. Much. Easier.
I obviously didn’t pick my kids’ surname, but my rules for naming included being six letters and three syllables or less, for this exact reason!
We joke that we should have given our child my last name for that very reason. I have a short, simple Irish last name. Hubby and child have a long, complicated Slavic last name. When it came time for Kiddo to learn to spell their name, Hubby & I looked at each other and asked “what were we thinking?”
That was my first thought! Sussex is way easier for a kid to learn to spell than M-W! Easier to learn to say, too!
@Liz it’s the joke in my family that my mom married my dad for his last name. Her maiden name is long and Slavic as well while Dad’s (and mine) is a short Irish surname with a good balance of consonants and vowels lol
Another reason might be just in case Charles or William try to take away the title – so it wouldn’t matter if “of Sussex” is taken away, they’d already be Sussex.
Sussex refers to the Ancient Kingdom of the South Saxons(Sussex) c. 477-860 which was
was one of the seven traditional kingdoms of the Heptarchy of Anglo-Saxon England.
Gingersnap!
Adorable.
Yes, adorable, but Lilli ain’t no “spare”!
Mountbatten-Windsor is a very unwieldy moniker for two little kids to haul around anyway. And given the Earl’s unsavory reputation, they probably don’t want his name attached to the kids at all.
I really love that it removes them from the stain of the Mountbatten reputation but also frees them from the House of Windsor. Very smart move by the Sussexes.
I agree.
Now the Sussex kids are first and foremost Harry and Meghan’s before their royal status even comes into focus. It helps that they never really lived in the royal ghetto so that stain is not on them.
I’m glad for them.
I am so shocked by this article. Like….its calm, its factual, its not hysterical or over the top – this line – “why would they object when it’s perfectly normal and is pretty routine?” – I mean……someone over there was told to calm the eff down weren’t they??
Anyway, the name change doesn’t surprise me, I always felt bad when I thought of those kids having to fill in the scantrons with their last names for testing with Mountbatten-Windsor (and I know they don’t even use those bubble sheets anymore LOL, but I still felt bad.) M-W is a mouthful, Sussex is a lot easier.
Yes this article is so interesting. I saw it yesterday on my Twitter timeline and was like um is this just straight journalism here? Seems like someone got a call and told them to turn down the hysteria dial about a website update. Verrryyyyy interesting.
How does that work, that they can choose a surname? Just curious.
In the US you can call yourself anything you want as long as it’s not to commit fraud. You fill out some papers, pay a fee, it has to be advertised in a classified section of a paper for a few days, and a judge signs your name change. Boom.
@Tara – Anyone can choose their surname in the U.S. You just have to file the necessary forms.
Tara – no. The change comes due to the change in relation to the monarch. Archie and Lili Diana now being the grandchildren vs the great grandchildren of the monarch.
Just like Harry changed from being Prince Harry/Henry of Wales (when his father was Prince of Wales) to being The Prince Harry (when Chuckles became king), Duke of Sussex, etc.
So now Harry’s children become Prince/Princess (first name) of Sussex. And would use Archie/Lili Sussex, the same way Harry used Harry Wales at school or as a soldier.
Oh – seeing other people reply, maybe I missed your point and you just meant how is it legally done in the US.
@Sussex Watcher – Regardless of what Tara meant, I appreciate the information!
However, I am still confused how Lili was left out in any way compared to Archie? Did he have a different title than she did? The article and Kaiser both say this is to be inclusive of her, but I dont see where she was excluded – what am I missing?
Thanks for all explanations! That is really insightful. Wish I had known sooner that you can choose your own surname in US. 😀 Your comments add up, I think together they make a perfect 360* response.
@ Slush – i think the part about lily being left out is in reference to the site being called Archewell which a reference to Archie. They’re saying that sussex dot com is now a catch all for their family and personal office while archewell is still the name of their foundation and production company(and each have their own website). I didnt think using Archewell was exclusive but i do like that they’ve separated out these websites because i felt at times that having updates about their lives and careers on the Archewell site was kind of awkward but now it all flows together very nicely. And the new website actually posts updates quickly now! Thank God
@CHELSEA
Got it- thank you! That makes sense.
@Sussexwatcher: “Harry changed from being Prince Harry/Henry of Wales (when his father was Prince of Wales) to being The Prince Harry (when Chuckles became king), Duke of Sussex, etc.”)
^^ Right @Sussexwatcher, except that Prince Harry was no longer Harry Wales, as soon as he was given the Sussex title upon his marriage in 2018. He became Prince Harry, The Duke of Sussex, etc. After Chuck’s coronation, apparently Harry is now, as you indicated: The Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex (Earl of Dumbarton, Baron Kilkeel).
I get that you mean while Charles was still Prince of Wales, his sons would still be “of Wales.” However, since they were both given dukedoms upon marriage, they were no longer referenced as “of Wales.” Except for when Willy was given the PoW title.
Very strange article that actually isn’t filled with hate.. have to wonder who is behind this one. Whenever the look like the are being impartial I get nervous.
I also believe that in pointing out those numerous Duchy of Cornwall products on the market (now under Bully’s purview) PLUS the “800+ companies using the royal warrant coat of arms for commercial reasons,” I guess chucky (who I believe gave the go ahead to clean this up) didnt want to draw the attention of Americans and other decent folks around the world to the blatant othering of the Sussexes, thereby making more and more folks say, hell yeah, H&M were right about everything they said in the Oprah interview, that the royals didnt want the first mixed-raced married-in and their children to be royals.
This feels like Charles using BP comms to hit back at KP (and possibly Rogue Camilla’s) comms again.
Ever since their meeting a week ago, it feels like there’s a temperature shift happening between the palaces and also towards Harry. I suspect Charles realized he needs Harry, and is trying to cautiously backtrack on the earlier alienation. Whether Charles has actually manned up or had the aid of a physician’s expertise in locating his balls in the vicinity of his prostate, and proffered the apology to Harry and Meghan that H asked for, will be a matter of continued conjecture and speculation until we see more solid evidence of H&M being embraced by and reconciled with the family.
The more William spins out of control, I think the more Charles will be inclined towards Harry. Which will make W double down on his baser instincts. The man has not the self control that his younger brother has always possessed.
It will be interesting, very interesting to see how this all plays out. The coming year is going to be drama-filled, that’s pretty much guaranteed.
It’s factual so long as you’re willing to accept unnamed sources, even if one of them pointed out how Chuck has traded off his royal status for commercial enterprises. It’s factual so long as you’re willing to accept: “understood to have taken,” and “Sussexes are said to be” without reference to any source.
Whichever unnamed source told The Times that the name Archewell was inspired by their son’s name must have forgotten when Archie was born, H-M said his name was inspired by the Greek word ‘arche’ meaning source of action. At the time of their filing paperwork for Archewell, the couple made the following statement to ABC News 4/7/2020.
“Before SussexRoyal, came the idea of ‘Arche’ — the Greek word meaning ‘source of action,'” Harry and Meghan said in a statement to ABC News in response to a story in the U.K.’s The Telegraph, which was the first outlet to report the name. “We connected to this concept for the charitable organisation we hoped to build one day, and it became the inspiration for our son’s name.” “To do something of meaning, to do something that matters,” they said. “Archewell is a name that combines an ancient word for strength and action, and another that evokes the deep resources we each must draw upon.”
If this is true, it’s within their right to do it. The British press is up in arms about this story for some reason. There was no problem when Harry went by Harry Wales at school and in the army.
Nowhere is it mentioned in these press articles how the Cambridge children were and are referred to at school. Presumably they were George, Charlotte, and Louis Cambridge and now they’re George, Charlotte, and Louis Wales, just as William and Harry were always William and Harry Wales. None of them were ever Mountbatten-Windsor because they were born princes and princess, and now that Archie and Lili are prince and princess it’s exactly the same. But I suppose acknowledging that wouldn’t allow for reams of hysterical press coverage.
It’s so weird to me that they change their last name when they get a royal designation. Why not just be Xyz Windsor, Add title here? Why keep changing the last name?
Agree with what the teachers have stated, much easier for both teacher and child to pronounce and spell. Also very thoughtful and strategic for the Sussexes . Since it is their surname, they have a right to use it on their website . Kills the drama.
My goodness they finally have a last name. It’s a weird situation. Is it Mount Batten- Windsor or Sussex. All the titles and such. Happy it’s all sorted out.
I try to click on the links of the articles that are reasonable and not frothing at the mouth with hate so the papers know there is a market for it. I don’t know if it does anything at all but makes me feel like I’m contributing in a tiny way.
The decision to click or not is actually THE ONLY CORRECT WAY to register your interest or disinterest in something you see online, whether its an image, a video or text. Remember, the currency of the internet is: human attention. We….i:e the human mind, are what is bought and sold on the internet.
Think of it as a mouse caught in a trap, when someone engages with content online by clicking on it. At that point, the algorithm of the computer that hosts the content we clicked on, clocks your interest and subsequently feeds you more of the same.
You really should watch the docu-drama The Social Dilemma (Netflix) for a great if frightening explanation for whats really happpening to humans in the age of the internet, even before AI.
The Times is a Murdoch publication. I also found that article incredibly fair to H&M—especially given what The Times has published in the past. This is one of, for lack of a better term, “kindest” viewpoints they’ve published. Even-handed indeed! James or Lachlan Murdoch’s doing? Go-ahead from KC? Interesting.
James Murdoch is out at News Corp, It’s only Lachlan at the top now.
And he’s way worse than Ol’ Rupe.
So I think this came from someone within BP, see the aside about Harry being worried about the health of…
Nanea and The Old Chick, Thanks for clarifying on Lachlan. I seem to recall Harry saying something about one of those two that wasn’t entirely negative (I guess James then?). I wasn’t aware that Lachlan was even worse (wow!) than Rupert.
So BP is definitely dialing back the vitriol. Good. Hope they continue.
I don’t believe James has been part of the business for a few years. Lachlan is just a big a monster as his father.
Huh, a royal insider is saying rational and logical things about H&M? Is this a BP turnaround since the Charles/Harry visit? Are they trying to distance Charles from William’s hysteria?
Yes seems to be, Robert Johnson was their biggest chair leader yesterday when interviewed, he admires the Sussexs and loves the Invictous Games, he said that Sussex is their name and had every right to use it !!!
Johnson, is this a different reporter, and not Jobby Jobson? Because Jobson has been pretty inflammatory and unhinged this past week. I think he might need to switch to lavender tea, calm down a scosh.
@Kat, do you mean Robert Jobson? I have not heard of a Robert Johnson rota reporter.
Robert Jobson is Charles’ go-to reporter. So, if Jobson is actually changing his tune toward the Sussexes, perhaps that’s another indication of Chuck suddenly seeing the writing on the wall; finally reading the room. 😳🫣
Is Chuck’s health scare precipitating him to come to grips with the fact that he needs Harry more than Harry needs him? 🤔
Yeah, this is very telling. I wish I had a list of publications with the names of which writers which royal family member leaks to. That would be very interesting right now.
Awaiting william’s daily rage post. How dare Harry exist and thrive! And Kate’s: Harry loves me, that’s why he didn’t visit me! Camilla: Harry tried to speak to his own father without me! Etc
The royal insider is probably a journalist.
the li’l gingersnap is adorable dressed in those heathery blue colors.
Aww. It’s one cute happy Sussex family. May the house of Sussexes stay peaceful and thriving ❤️
The first time they’ve had the same surname? This is Lili being treated equally to Archie? Can’t believe we’re getting new actual facts from the British press. Good info.
It is comical to watch the British papers toe themselves in knots over and over again, trying to make the Sussexes the bad guys. How dare they run a site with their name! How dare they give their own children their last name, while living in a country where that is completely customary!
The sad part is how people will buy into it. It’s not unlike how people defend Trump. Buying whatever they’re sold, rigorously defending people and institutions who don’t give a damn about them and being too foolish to realize it.
I should add, THIS article has a markedly different tone. But it’s notable in how measured it is when most of them are frothing at the mouth.
This article is really interesting. You see the strategy of the Palaces play out in the media. This seems like a clear message from BP. Will be interesting to watch how the next two days are reported on.
Second post: Love how quickly Sussex.com is being updated. Hope this continues far into the future.
I say direct from BP myself. The hysteria ramped up yesterday, with the idiot commentator Cole saying the website, name change etc was illegal and that the Sussexes had reneged on a deal with the late Queen. Some of it was completely unhinged!! The rest ran with it …. at first ….. but then when it started to be pointed out on SM about Duchy of Cornwall produce, all the HRH’s writing books etc. they HAD to say something or appear complete hypocrites. The leftovers need good press more than anything, especially with 3 main players out of action. Any whiff of them being two-faced might just prompt one of the outliers in the rota to start digging to see what they are trying to cover up with all the anti-Sussex pieces.
About deals with the queen, i was wondering if it the same note where QE acknowledged Camilla as “queen consort” that she said the Sussexes would keep Frogmore? Because…
The old Christmas card leading this post reminded me to ask you all if there was a card from this year. I don’t remember one. Does this signify anything such as not wanting to give the RR any recent pictures of the Sussex kids?
The card from this year was from the Office of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. I think it just means they’re going to reduce public pictures of their children going forward as much as possible.
Will the Punxsutawney king still be able to remove their titles after they legally changed their surname to Sussex?
I’m guessing he could, but they’d still be Prince Harry Sussex, Meghan Sussex (assuming she changed her name legally), Archie Sussex, & Lilibet Sussex. Their names are their names, regardless of title or lack of title.
@Just Jade No. The process of removing their titles and/or removing Harry, Archie, and Lili from the line of succession is complex and involves Parliament.
Charles won’t do that because it’s just not done.
William won’t do it because he won’t be allowed to do it.
If the titles are removed from the Sussexes then it would signal that *anyone* could be stripped of their titles and there would be a domino effect of the aristocracy and nobles getting metaphorically shanked and their titles yanked.
And Parliament isn’t going to allow for that to happen. They have to maintain the white supremacy…er…integrity… of the title system.
The rota know this and they know no one is yanking the Sussexes titles but it’s an easy, cheap way to get in shots at Harry and Meghan so they constantly bring it up and try to raise support for the title removal.
Imagine all the people PW likely has a grudge against and would take vengeance on. Those aristo girls who snubbed him would have family members’ titles taken.
The article has Charlie’s paw prints all over it:
1. The emphasis on Harry by speaking about Harry not Harry and Meghan
2. The way Spare is described
3. Mentioning what Harry’s priority concerns are–the health of Charles and Kate. How would this ‘royal insider’ know? Also, I can’t help wondering if this isn’t also a jab at William.
Harry’s visit clearly had an impact on Charles’s thinking, so he’s issued his own statement via this article.
@aries48, ” the health of Charles and Kate ” came right out of the visit Harry paid to his father. I read the article again after seeing your post and it does seem plausible that this is Charles, or at least a rep of BP speaking for Charles, which means that Charles has leaked about his meeting with Harry.
@Libra, I don’t think Charles is leaking about his meeting with Harry–that meeting opened his eyes to a new potential–I think he is attempting to control the discourse, so eventually Harry will have a role. To achieve that goal, the character assassination has to be managed or at least Charles has to appear to be managing it in his own way.
William has always been problematic, so once Meghan came on the scene, she served as subterfuge. William isn’t changing for the better, so Charles needs to save the monarchy by getting Harry involved and visible. Can’t destroy him, if you need him.
I’m guessing Charles has noticed that Archie and Lilibet don’t present as black (or mixed race), so they are also potential targets for the “Duty and Service” bit. Meghan, however, isn’t safe AND she presents as other, so Charles pretends she doesn’t exist publicly and is respectful when necessary in private.
I envision a half in for Harry based on “Duty and Service,” and possibly attempts to use A&L if not physically, then by referencing them whenever possible. William will be King (not sure about Kate’s future, however), but Harry will be the face of the “actively working” royal family (especially once Ann is out of the picture).
With all that predicting, I should buy lotto tickets.
Aries, you have an interesting take, but I don’t think there will ever be a half in as I think of it. I have wondered if KFC will withdraw as head of the Commonwealth Trust and ask that Harry be voted in. That is not ‘royal’ position, because the Commonwealth countries can vote in whomever they choose. I can definitely see this would be something Harry & Meghan would be interested in.
I can see a Commonwealth connection, but I can’t see anything beyond that. I’ve been known to be wrong, so …
This is definitely a Charles piece. He does this periodically, so not to seem as dogsh%t as he really is.
@Saucy&Sassy Head of the Commonwealth is exactly what I think the half in could be. More important than the what is simply having a better representative of the Crown out there AND actually working. This changes the narrative that William represents the new monarchy and makes Charles look a notch above dogsh*tt.
Finally, it’s a model that the British people might like and could result in William and [insert new wife’s name here] would be pushed to follow.
Aries48, I honestly don’t see Wont & Cant wanting anything to do with any of the Commonwealth Countries in the future. Indeed, it sounds like Wont has already washed his hand of them.
As I said, it would be up to the Commonwealth Countries to vote in someone if KFC stepped down and they can choose anyone.
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are calling their kids Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet of Sussex or Archie and Lily Sussex
Shocking news at 11!! Members of a family have the same name!! Stick with us as we follow along to see what other shocking things will develop!
(cue an eye roll so long and intense it threatens to rupture my eye socket)
B, I agree. Did everyone have a meltdown when the York Princesses took the last name of York rather than Mountbatten-Windsor? Did everyone have a meltdown when the Cambridge kids took the last name of their Father’s duchy and then changed it to Wales when he became the PoW? This is simply the same thing. Geez, the bm need to get some tranquilizers.
Another thing that I wish any of these reporters understood is that coats of arms are granted by the College of Arms, a heraldic institution, NOT by the monarch. Almost anyone can have one if they pay the fee. The design is completely up to the College of Arms and the person for whom it’s being designed. The Middletons bought their family a coat of arms when Kate got engaged. Many many designs include crowns and coronets, not just Royalty’s. My dad’s Swedish family has a coat of arms with a crown above it. 🙄 And most of all I wish they knew that there is no interdiction whatsoever about putting your own coat of arms on anything you want!
So so glad they got rid of the disgusting Mountbatten name, and yey for Sussex 😊
Now something has come down from somewhere because even on the late night press preview and the earlier news, the anchor was trying to make fetch happen, but was told there was no problem with the name of the website, or the names or the coat of arms! Very curious
Mary Pester, that is interesting and it does make it seem like someone has put the brakes on. Wow!
Coats of Arms are not for sale. In the case of Meghan and Middletons the arms were granted at the Queen’s request. The arms for the Middletons were granted to Michael Middleton and all 3 kids have a right to them. In Meghan’s case they skipped her father- undoubtably to avoid granting arms to him and Meghan’s siblings- using the excuse that he wasn’t British. There is a fee for the arms but individuals can’t contact the College of Arms and buy arms.
Actually, individuals can contact the College of Arms and apply for a Coat of Arms.
I’m sure the Middletons were granted theirs at the Queen’s request given their daughter was marrying the FFK. But people can apply for them (though there are many steps involved and the applicant must prove their qualifications, and there’s a fee but it’s clear it’s not a pay to play arrangement).
I really don’t understand why they compare Lilibet to Harry? Lilibet is the second born, but she will never experience what her father had to go through. Unless they meant that because Lilibet is a girl, she will not inherit any titles. Unlike her brother, who will inherit the ” Duke of Sussex” title when Harry passes.
I remember when stans said Harry gave his kids the surname “Mountbatten” because he wanted to honor his grandpa lol. They ignored the correct protocol for using surnames/ titles and the fact that the only reason Harry was using Mountbatten as a surname for his kids was because they didn’t have titles. I wonder what they will say now 🤭.
Mountbatten-Windsor is indeed the surname for male-line descendants of Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip, who do not have royal styles or titles. You can look it up for confirmation. In 1960, a declaration to this effect was made by the Privy Council, as per the Queen’s wishes. Even those with royal styles (such as Princess Anne) have used the Mountbatten-Windsor surname on official documents.
None of these fact-based details precludes the reality that Harry had a loving relationship with his Grandpa Philip. Thus, Harry surely delighted in having Archie christened with the Mountbatten-Windsor surname, while Grandpa Philip was still alive to see his name thus honored. This is true, regardless of the fact that Mountbatten-Windsor is the default surname in any case, and especially since a courtesy title from Harry was never used for Archie.
Good . As far as I am concerned, it should have always been their name as it’s their parents name . Wank and buttons kids have their last name so why should Archie and Lili be treated any differently. These people suck who want to make an issue of this attacking two innocent babies. It’s just so gross
I honestly don’t see it in the website where they said Archie and Lili now have the last name of Sussex. Until H&M’s office confirms the name change from Mountbatten-Windsor to Sussex, I will not believe it. You need to file civil court paperwork to do this and publish the name change in a local paper. Also, they would have to update a lot of IDs like social security and passports to be done in person. Imagine the commotion at court and even just the social security office when Harry and Meghan come to bring in their children to effect the name change.
Harry and Meghan don’t need to confirm anything. It’s a protocol. Harry used his father’s title as his surname before he married and became the Duke of Sussex. Wales children and York sisters also use their fathers’ titles as their surnames. All blood princes and princesses apply to this rule. “Mountbatten-Windsor” surname for those who don’t have a title, and Archie and Lili are now a prince and princess.
I understand that and I think it’s fine that if they did indeed change to Sussex but in America, they cannot pull insider strings. There has to be proper legal paperwork to effect a name change. Also, I don’t tend to believe UK papers like the Times which can be biased against H&M. Until there is proper confirmation from H&M official reps, then I have my doubts. You cannot just put on school forms your kid’s last name is Sussex when there is no primary ID such as a birth certificate, social security card, passport or name change court order to support that. I myself personally did a name change and I had to submit a court order to Social Security.
You can submit your name change documents by mail for your passport per the Department of State’s website. Ditto for the social security card, it can even be completed online. Per the SSA website.
I just went to the SSA website and did the replacement card Q&A. Part of the process is an online application but the submission of the actual court documents have to be done in person.
ikeajane, I think that each state has their own laws about changing your name. I’m sure that not all of them would require publishing anything. I don’t know what California’s is, but I dare say it’s not that hard to find. I don’t think we can go with one state’s laws.
Name changes still require court hearings to be attended by the petitioners. In which case, Harry and Meghan would have had to be there.
In order to OFFICIALLY change one’s name, most states require a filing and an “appearance,” which, since COVID, can be by zoom in many states. After that, the name in the social security record must match the name on any tax returns. It really doesn’t take a lot of time and effort—women have been dealing with this for decades when getting married. And yes, you can just start using any name you want (first, last, middle), but it won’t be official for passport, IRS, social security, driver’s license, etc. purposes until the court approves it.
Harry’s and Meghan’s titles/ names have always been Sussex, since their marriage. Mountbatten-Windsor has always been a surname they can use for legal purposes. Archie possibly got a U.S. social security number once H&M relocated to the U.S. with him, in 2020. Of course, Lili, could have gotten hers at birth the following year, or just before the family traveled to the U.K. in June 2021.
Young children do not necessarily need individual travel documentation for domestic U.S. travel, but they do for international travel. Archie was a world traveler at the age of 4 months. His visit to South Africa with his parents, in 2019, was arranged by the British government, as a diplomatic royal tour.
I would imagine that A&L’s birth certificates would be updated. In any case, their parents’ Sussex titles were included on their birth certificates upon first issuance.
You do not have to file paperwork to change your name in the US. It’s perfectly legal to simply start using your new name, as long as it’s not with intent to defraud. However, it is not advisable these days, as I can attest, being currently caught in the mire that is getting a Real ID. I’m going to have to go to court for an official name change to get mine. Still, though, it’s not illegal.
The ratchets desperately need for the 2027 Invictus Games to come to the UK to give them something to do. All the craziness yesterday could have taken the shine off the British bid.
The Sussexes will not come back, and definitely not bring their children, if it isn’t safe for them to do so.
Ianne, I said much the same in a post a couple of days ago. There has been so much hate and vitriol against the Sussexes that I cannot imagine either of them wanting to be in the UK for IG because of the security nightmare. The bm has engendered so much hate and there is the Nazi contingent in addition. It just takes one deranged individual.
Charles did not change anything.
Here are the facts:
Under the original system :
All grandchildren of a reigning monarch are HRH Prince/Princess.
Plus, the firstborn son of the heir to the Prince of Wales is HRH Prince .
The late Queen, by Letters Patent ( with Parliamentary approval) provided for all children born to Prince William to have princely titles. Otherwise, George would have been a Prince, Charlotte would have been ‘Lady Charlotte Windsor-Mountbatten ‘ and Louis would have been Lord something-or-other.
Harry’s children were not included in this.
Therefore they could only take the titles of children of a duke which would have made Archie the Earl of Dumbarton and Lili the Lady Lilibet Windsor-Mountbatten. However, Harry and Meghan registered their births without titles and with the Windsor-Mountbatten surname, explaining that the children could decide to use their titles when they became adults. (This is similar to Edward and Sophie’s decision to raise their children without princely titles but with the titles applicable to the children of an Earl. This left the decision about princely titles to Louise and James when each reached adulthood)
All of this changed when the late Queen died and Archie and Lili automatically became Prince and Princess as grandchildren of a reigning monarch. Harry and Meghan decided not to follow the same path as Edward and Sophie. They have allowed their children to be formally registered as Prince and Princess although those titles will be used only for formal and legal applications.
As Prince and Princess, Archie and Lilibet will not use the Windsor-Mountbatten surname but will now use their father’s ducal title as their surname.
All this is in accordance with legal precedent. In everyday life the children will be known as Archie and Lili Sussex instead of Archie and Lili Windsor-Mountbatten.
Harry is a responsible father who is protecting his children’s birthright and their right to make their own choices when they reach adulthood.
As far as I can see Harry is not a. republican. He supports a constitutional monarchy. However, he does not support the current relationship between the Palace and the Press. He wants a monarchy that is honest and accountable just as he wants a press that is honest and accountable.
The Windsor-Mountbatten name will be continued through the children born to Prince Archie.
Since then Archie and Lilibet automatically become HRH Prince and Princess when their grandfather became King.
anotherlily, actually I believe it was the palace which decided that Archie would not have a title. Meghan was particularly concerned about that because without the HRH Prince styling, Archie would not bet security. I don’t believe for a moment that this was their decision.
I think Meghan wanted the title of prince/ princess for the children and not Earl/Lady. Meghan didn’t say in the Oprah interview that the palace prohibited them from using the titles Earl/Lady, but she did say that Charles intended to change the George V convention so that their children wouldn’t be called prince/ princess. Can you imagine Archie being called the Earl of Dumbarton?? He would be bullied and ridiculed at school if that was his title.
Celine, we don’t know anything of the sort. We know she mentioned it, not that SHE wanted it. That’s the deranger talking point :ascribe everything to Meghan because Harry (you know, the actual prince) has no agency. Like now the rota is all, Meghan thought she’d be a princess and live in a castle. I’ve heard a version of that mocking bs 4 times recently.
You nor I have no idea what conversations took place. I’d guarantee Harry was behind it because it’s HIS children’s right (as things stand). Like Andrew’s girls.
The Sussex children did not qualify for the Prince/Princess title and neither did Charlotte or Louis. The original provision was for all grandchildren of a reigning monarch born through the male line plus the eldest son of the heir to the Prince of Wales. Therefore, the children born to Charles, Andrew and Edward were automatically Prince/Princess. Plus, when George was born he became a Prince. If the Queen had not intervened, Charlotte and Louis would not have been Prince and Princess.
Meghan wanted the same provision for Archie and later for Lili because, under the legislation, all Princes and Princesses are provided with police security until they complete their education. However the Queen did not make this provision for Harry’s children. She may have been advised that Harry’s children would gain this status in due course when Charles became King and in the meantime police protection could be provided if and when needed.
The expectation used to be that all those with princely titles would eventually join ‘the firm’ and have a role supporting the Monarch. Andrew’s daughters were raised with that expectation and both they and their parents were not happy with the Queen’s decision that they should find employment when they completed their education.
@AnotherLily, the male-line descendant surname is ‘Mountbatten-Windsor,’ not the other way round.
Also, the word ‘qualify,’ is not the best way to describe the situation. A&L were simply not entitled to be called Prince/ Princess until becoming the grandchildren of the monarch. That could not happen until their grandfather, Charles, inherited the throne. A&L automatically became Prince/ Princess when Charles became king, despite the firm’s dragging of their feet in acknowledging A&L’s titles and updating the royal website.
Interesting that the “royal insider” acknowledged, in a tone of approval, Harry’s focus on Charles’ and Kate’s health. And described Archewell Production as a “profit-for-good company.”
This makes me wonder if this came from someone allied with the Sussexes. If it really came from Charles, that would be quite a turn of events.
Chuckie’s BP comms team is trying to put the horse back in the barn after they and KP stupidly lit the barn on fire.
“Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see how that works out for them”
Yeah.
She’s underscoring, in an economy of words, why the Sussexes would want to make a point of keeping all things equal between their two children — and I think it’s very clear she’s agreeing Lilibet is every bit as precious as her older brother.
I wondered about the name Archwell after Lili was born and whether they realized they’d need to balance out the branding, but the last thing in the world I’d ever worry about is these parents raising Lili to feel second best.
Why should we go with this type of recyled tabloid non-stories (yes, the so-called UK broadsheets have become tabloids too), solely created for clicks, and treat them like they are fresh revelations or news ?
Since her parents announced Lilibet as a princess when she was christened, and theireafter Buck Palace published both kids’ names on the Royal Family website WITH their Royal titles AND Sussex names, it is understood by everybody with two braincells that the kids, since then, have had and are going by their parents surname.
There was no debate about George, Charlotte and Louis changing their names after QE2 died was there? They were George, Charlotte and Louis Cambridge. Then the Queen died and for a moment they were George, Charlotte and Louis Cornwall as that was the title William automatically received when Charles became King. Then Charles gave William the title of Prince of Wales and the kids have the last name of Wales. And when William becomes King (God help us please) they will effectively have no last name. The change from Mountbatten Windsor to Sussex just reflects the fact that Archie and Lili’s grandfather is now King and they have the title of Prince and Princess. That’s all. And it’s correct changes too. If DM did their research that’s exactly what they would discover. But what’s a little correct research when you can whip up the masses with lies eh?
I believe Harry went by the last name “Wales” in the army, and royalty doesn’t necessarily have last names anyway (Harry was baptised with four given names and no last name, for example).
I suspect royals call themselves by whatever name they please, depending on their concerns about privacy and security in a given situation.
All this yelling and slinging arrows will not change the fact this has been done and the King has no problem with it-The Sussex family is organizing themselves how they want to do it-Will and Kate has done the same-Some of these screaming banshees are going to have a stroke of the brain-Please do not upset your king-he says it is okay by him-the Uk just slipped into a recession at the end of last year-get upset about that-antisemetism has risen extremely high this past year-get upset about that-fuel for heating is very high-get upset about that-The Sussex family is living their lives and the king is okay about it-calm down UK media and get grip on more pressing problems affecting the UK-you look like idiots on the world stage about a family minding their business with the king’s okay-go drink a hot toddy and go to bed.
Who would want the name Mountbatten or Windsor? Lord Louis Mountbatten’s disgusting paedophilia is well known and Windsor is a made up name as their Royal family name of Saxe-Coburg was too German and linked to the Nazis in war time UK when the royal Family tried to distance themselves from Germany.
Sussex is a brillian county in UK with Re-wilding and naturelovers; Green Party rules in Brighton and progressive thought in places although still some very rich right wing influencers as it is a very rich county.
Harry and Meghan did a well received tour of the area when here. eg women refuge and social care centres.