Sometimes, I’ll come across an old photo of Gregory Peck, Robert Redford or Paul Newman and I’ll quietly lament the fact that men like that really don’t exist anymore. It’s not solely about their looks – although a big chunk of it is about their looks and talent – but the whole idea of what it is to be a “real man” has changed so drastically in the past fifty years or so. Masculinity, as a concept and reality, has become fraught and fragile in equal measure. When we feel nostalgia for the olden days of masculine men like Peck, Newman and Redford, are we actually nostalgic for the more oppressive eras in which those men worked and thrived? Do we also feel nostalgic for a time when we knew less about “iconic men,” and when they could mistreat people in their personal lives and it was never revealed? I don’t have the answers. Neither does Jerry Seinfeld, but he’s still openly nostalgic for what he sees as the golden age of masculinity or something.
Jerry Seinfeld discussed his nostalgia for the 1960s, the decade of his childhood, and the setting of his directorial debut Unfrosted, in a new interview with Bari Weiss on her show Honestly.
“There’s another element there that I think is the key element [of the ‘60s], and that is an agreed-upon hierarchy, which I think is absolutely vaporized in today’s moment,” Seinfeld said. “I think that is why people lean on the horn and drive in the crazy way that they drive — because we have no sense of hierarchy and as humans we don’t really feel comfortable like that.”
The comedian also lamented modern masculinity.
“The other thing is as a man, I’ve always wanted to be a real man,” he said. “I never made it, but I really thought when I was in that era — again, it was JFK, it was Muhammad Ali, it was Sean Connery, Howard Cosell, you can go all the way down there — that’s a real man. I want to be like that someday.”
Seinfeld conceded that he never emulated those icons of manliness.
“I never really grew up,” he said. “You don’t want to, as a comedian, because it’s a childish pursuit. But I miss a dominant masculinity. Yeah, I get the toxic, I get it, I get it. But still, I like a real man.”
I’ll be slightly generous to Seinfeld – growing up in the 1960s, he had a completely different set of male icons to look up to and try to emulate. The idea that as a kid, he was in awe of Muhammad Ali – arguably one of the most high profile anti-war activists of the era – is very cool. That being said, it’s clear that Seinfeld is nostalgic for more than just “iconic ‘60s men.” He’s actually nostalgic for a time when men ruled everything, when men were solely the “dominant” force in culture and society, and a time when “real men” could do whatever they wanted with few repercussions.
F*ck you, Jerry Seinfeld. That is all. Signed, a dominant feminine person.
🎯
Nuf said. He groomed a teenager, so when he says “toxic”‘he’s speaking from personal experience.
What a sad human being he is to think a. that what makes a man is a toxic, distorted composite of decades past and b. that anyone cares about what he wants or craves.
Things that remain:
He has lost his touch, which was evident when he chose a mature stand up act for some college thing some years ago (students were left scratching their heads.
His movie sucked and tanked.
He dated a teenager when in his 30’s and when another comedian called him out on it he acted in such a toxic manner he ensured the comedian was not hired by anyone and destroyed their career.
Go f4k yourself Jerry, you are a rich, white, overly privileged and overly hyped a55hole.
Seinfeld has always been a dick. look at how he wrote the Elaine character (who was alsothe only woman on the show). that was not an accident. that’s how he really thinks. I guess he just admits it now.
he does not get a pass. I was brought up in the ’60s and ’70s, and I don’t think women are inferior to men, nor that we should be submissive to them! it’s nonsense.
Perfectly put Mimi
Dominant male? This man wore SNEAKERS, hideous white sneakers, everywhere in the 80/90s and dated a teenager.
Then he married a plagiarist who changes her appearance every couple of months (seriously, no two pics are the same).
Took the words out of my mouth, Mimi.
Man who had to check his then 17 YO girlfriend out of high school to go on a date with her says what..?
😂 🎯
@tiffany: thank you
At 38 YEARS OLD!
That will never, ever stop being disgusting. It should be included in every single article, photo, or conversation about him until the end of time.
And I just saw a headline today that incels (I’m paraphrasing) are grossed out by Nicole Kidman having a steamy sex scene with a thirtysomething. The double standard in this day and age is maddening. (I am tempted to take a poll of random thirtysomethings though to see how many would be open to a steamy sex scene with Nicole Kidman, because I’m guessing the response from people attracted to women will be very positive).
Bari Weiss is a right wing reactionary aligned with Fox News and this is a total dog whistle moment for rabid conservatives who want to oppress women. I love the old movie stars but I’m under no illusions as to women’s socioeconomic and political status in the 1940s and ‘50s. Sean Connery is a good example because he casually confessed to (or joked about?) hitting women. I guess that doesn’t matter to Mr. “Date a Minor” Seinfeld.
She is Not a right wing reactionary aligned with Fox News. She’s a moderate lesbian who is pro choice and has her own media company, The Free Press.
She doesn’t work for Fox. She is aligned with their perspectives on most issues. Yes, she says she is pro-choice (allegedly). However, in *every other regard*, she is aligned with extreme right wing politics and you can see that in the people she chooses to platform. She is a lesbian and is still extremely politically conservative in every way that doesn’t affect her personally.
@Marycontrary: LOL
MaryContrary is correct. Bari Weis is by no means a “right wing reactionary.” She’s a journalist who doesn’t align with one camp or another – in fact, she doesn’t subscribe to any idealogical narrative. It’s a sad commentary on current politicis when an indepedent thinker and writer is regarded with suspicion for not being adequately partisan.
She is someone that blares about so-called “wokism,” and DEI initiatives make her cry. She amplifies claims that George Floyd’s killer was wrongly convicted. Regardless of what she claims about her own politics, she could hardly be more fox aligned.
Um Bari Weiss DOES espouse RW rhetoric. She’s also a transphobe who loves to platform other transphobes.
The fact that she hides behind the “centrist” label doesn’t change the reality of her actions. She keeps showing us who she is–believe her.
@Elizabeth Bowman @Chaine exactly. She’s queer, but she’s a far-right woman obsessed with suppressing “wokeness” and “cancel culture”. Her whole thing is being anti-anti-racist. (If only there were a pithier way to describe that ideology)
Bari Weiss’s recent column from last November is a good example of how she functions as a MAGA shill. Here is the title and description:
“End DEI
“It’s not about diversity, equity, or inclusion. It is about arrogating power to a movement that threatens not just Jews—but America itself.”
Basically she’s the Daily Mail.
I’m not going to argue back and forth but it’s amazing this is being painted as centrist or moderate. Trying to dismantle DEI initiatives is anti-equality and it’s extreme.
Yeah, no. Bari did Elon’s twitter files which was based on cherry picked info handed to her by a man with an agenda, something no non right wing journalist would do without noting that the data handed to them not only did not confirm his bias and claims but was incomplete and actually refuted his bs claims about conservatives being targeted. They were “targeted” because they were sharing violence inciting tweets or hate.
Bari is completely right wing but she makes bank saying otherwise.
Another faux “centrist” pushing racism and hate with right wing talking points. She’s known as a right wing content creator, but like all smart fascists these days, markers herself as a “centrist.” You know, someone who actively opposes other peoples human rights.
This is a woman who defended libs of Tik Tok, a right wing terrorist account whose tweets about health care facilities offering care to trans people has been followed by terrorist threats to those facilities.
Wiki: “Weiss has been described as conservative by Haaretz, The Times of Israel, The Daily Dot, and Business Insider. In an interview with Joe Rogan, she described herself as a “left-leaning centrist”.”
An interview with Joe Rogan. Lol. Yeah, anyone denying she’s a right wing hack can show themselves out now. Bari, that you?
Here from Slate, Bari taking up for the account connected to multiple bomb threats against a children’s hospital. This is not defense of right wing freedom of expression, it is defense of right wing terrorism.
“ Among several examples, Weiss cites the platform’s treatment of Libs of TikTok, a Twitter account that remains active despite its connection to multiple acts of terror and intimidation from far-right extremists, including multiple bomb threats against a children’s hospital. This portrayal of Libs of TikTok as representative of accounts posting conservative views is alarming. The implication seems to be that platforms that seek to protect users from harassment and violence—which is what Libs of TikTok has repeatedly inspired—are engaging in anti-conservative bias when they do so.
…
Armed white supremacist gangs seem to closely monitor Libs of TikTok’s posts to find new targets, based on the multiple incidents associated with those named on its Twitter feed. Account owner Chaya Raichik, meanwhile, has done nothing to attempt to calm, dissuade, change how she communicates, or otherwise bring an end to the pattern of violence and near-violence driven by her posts.“
Right-wingers have many shady tactics, and a very common one is to declare themselves centrists in an effort to move the country toward the right. It’s been in the playbook for a long time and there is considerable evidence that it works.
But people should be judged by their actions, not their self-serving declarations. Bari is not even close to being a centrist. Her speech, tactics and actions put her squarely in right-wing territory, and pretending that she’s being bullied or canceled or misunderstood because people pay attention to her actual actions is frankly gross.
As an actual liberal lesbian, I say Bari Weiss is a shill and grifter. This is the “university” she established a few years ago:
https://www.austinmonthly.com/how-the-so-called-university-of-austin-is-faring-nearly-two-years-after-conception/
And Seinfeld might want to watch out for that “real manliness” – it pairs up great with being a nazi.
She is the worst. Right there with Matt Taibi, grifters and liars who know the easy money is in shilling for billionaires and justifying hate and violence with faux centrist gatekeeping.
Thank you Elizabeth bowman for speaking up, I know it’s not always easy but it’s so important. Also thanks to oh come on, chaine, NJGR and kitten above for speaking up. (Sorry if I missed anyone)
There is a movement to paint right wing violence and fascism as centrism, because that is how they push it into the culture to be accepted. This only works if we are all silent.
Thank you to my fellow celebitchies, I appreciate your courage in these perilous times.
Bari Weiss is not remotely “fascist” or “right wing”. It’s such a pathetic tactic to paint anyone who looks critically at issues to get painted as such. The “perilous times” are here because people look merely at sound bites and virtue signal instead of actually digging in.
@MaryContrary I posted above evidence that Bari being right wing is not just my opinion, it is the opinion of many legit outlets and it is based on her actions.
She defends right wing terrorism as I already pointed out to you and you have completely ignored. apparently you are not only defending her, but calling it virtue signaling to stand against terrorism.
I can’t help you, in that case, because our values are too divergent. But it is absolutely neo fascism. What a shame that so many are perfectly fine with violence against other people.
Pathetic is falling for that woman’s schtick. She’s not an intellectual nor is she a critical thinker, but a provocateur and a hack.
She even linked to a fake Antifa account in one of her articles in order to vilify what she calls the “intolerant left” because she’s a Very Good Journalist who can’t even be bothered to do her own damn due diligence.
It’s scary AF to see people like you buying what she’s selling instead of sending her straight into obscurity, which is where she belongs.
Jerry is 70 and is irrelevant in the comedy world. And that is all I have to say about him.
Wow that’s seriously ageist. At what age do your fellow Celebitchies become irrelevant, exactly?
He’s irrelevant since his views have not progressed past this golden time in his head when men where men and dames where dames.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to make it sound like his age was the only factor.
Seinfeld is a has-been, no matter what his age. And he is clearly bitter about it.
I recently watched a Netflix doc about Jerry and saw a couple of his recent standup gigs when I realized he is not funny at all. I’m a huge fan of the original TV show, but that was really about a brilliant ensemble of characters. Alone, he is just boring and stupid.
Newsflash- he wasn’t funny back in the day, either. The clips of his standup in his episodes were not funny.
“When we feel nostalgia for the olden days of masculine men like Peck, Newman and Redford, are we actually nostalgic for the more oppressive eras in which those men worked and thrived? “
—Yes. Good riddance.
“Do we also feel nostalgic for a time when we knew less about ‘iconic men’, and when they could mistreat people in their personal lives and it was never revealed?”
— Apparently.
Those guys also worked hard at their craft. Jerry never really did. He got lucky.
Super lucky.
His comedy always sucked but his TV show tapped into a particular zeitgeist at the time and with an immensely talented cast, he got rich and famous. I wonder how much of his recent comments are related to him getting older and reckoning with the fact that his legacy will never be that of a comedic great. He’ll be remembered for his show and only then because he surrounded himself with folks who are ten times more talented than him.
He always seemed to be on the verge of breaking into laughter during his Seinfeld scenes [I believe they call it corpsing].
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Julia Louis-Dreyfus was a pro at avoiding such a rookie move. I remember her saying in comedy “You let the laugh come to you,” which jived w/ my impression that Jerry was trying too hard – & failing
I liked this question by Kaiser because it encompasses the nuances and even conflicts within feminism. To me, the famous character played by Gregory Peck, for example, was a form of masculinity that is sorely missing in todays culture: a man of ethics and integrity who put justice first ahead of personal gain.
It is also true that going “back” to that time period would be horrific for all political minorities.
But I also think Jerry isn’t talking about that kind of masculinity. He’s talking about the can’t be canceled type of power men had before me too, which is pathetic because men aren’t canceled anymore. They just go right wing and make bank being pigs.
Exactly. He specifically said “hierarchy”–there is nothing ambiguous or subtle about that.
It’s interesting that he uses Peck, Newman, and Redford as some of his examples. All of the above were philanthropic and engaged heavily in the community. Newman gave up part of his salary for Susan Sarandon. Yes, they portrayed “tough men” on the screen, but it wasn’t how they lived their lives.
Jerry, doesn’t need to worry, though, because he sounds like every Toxic Man I know. To hell with his masculinity nonsense.
As usual, these man babies focus on the strength conveyed by character that they lack and their solution to get it is to dominate women and others.
He should have said Clint Eastwood because that douche most embodies the type of masculinity he describes here.
I adore Paul Newman onscreen. But he wasn’t a saint. Word has it he carried on an 18 month long affair with a journalist while filming Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. And that Robert Redford helped him cover it up. Maybe that is what Jerry is bemoaning. That sweet, good old boys network. A little nudge, a little wink.
I’ve tried to ignore Mr. Seinfeld but i cant. What exactly has he done to show masculinity?
His wife (I assumed with his assist) funded the beating of innocent protesters.
He has been wealthy for decades, with his shoehorned in show, yet what non-self serving charities has he help!
His idea of masculinity is belittling others and running behind Security.
He doesn’t even do comedy showcases to help small comedians!
I guess that’s the point of his speech.
I don’t agree. The coolest men of the sixties weren’t those toxic alpha male figures. Paul Newman was a man, but not a man who domineered women. I can’t imagine Gregory Peck not being a respectful partner. These were men who were so comfortable in their skin that they didn’t need to shout or dominate.
Newman might not have dominated women, but he certainly cheated on them.
And Peck, while he certainly was a perfect-looking, strong, principled man, was human like the rest of us. It’s known that he cheated on his first wife, with Ingrid Bergman and also with the young woman who would become his second wife, Veronique. There may have been others.
(Doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great person. Many of us do things that we may not be exactly proud of, but which seemed right at the time.)
A real man doesn’t feel the need to date a child. He knows that he never evolved, never became a decent *human.* He is mistaking the notion of being a “real man” with the idea of being an evolved, decent, responsible human being.
Does anyone else think he is proud of the fact he got a high schooler to be his girlfriend? He keeps reminding us in subtle ways. I won’t be surprised if he told his pr people to plant stories and remind everyone.
Their relationship always seemed extra strange. Like it wasn’t just an age difference but something else involved. She used to go public a lot. I got the feeling someone was putting her up to go public. Could’ve been him.
“The other thing is as a man, I’ve always wanted to be a real man,” he said. “I never made it,…”
He said it.
“But I miss a dominant masculinity.”
Maybe he’ll still get his wish and a real man will show up to dominate him. Then he’ll understand “toxic” even better.🙄
At one point this guy was middle aged and dating someone under 18 years of age. He should just zip it and leave humanity alone.
🙄give me strength
And maybe this was said in his usual sardonic manner? Pretty hard to know that from some sentences taken out of a live interview.
This is pretty much right. If you listen to the whole interview he actually goes on to to talk about how these men dress and that that’s what he wishes he were more like — he says that instead he dresses basically like a child. So it was more about what they look like and not how anyone behaved.
Yeah, that’s what I want to know because his tone sounds fairly facetious to me. I’m not here to stan him by any means, but he IS a comedian, so context is important for what he’s actually saying there. It seems more like he’s making fun of himself a tad there.
Yep–the inclusion of Howard Cosell (who was always ridiculed for his toupee, plus comedians loved to do imitations of his vocal delivery) is a big sign that Seinfeld’s being facetious here.
He wanted to grow up to a Real Man but instead ended up a snively, whiny little bitch. How tragic.
He hasn’t even tried. He could easily fund a boyscout-like dvd series. Nothing weird. Just one of those “every boy should know” type things. He could give it to schools for free. He could create a PBS show for boys. Nothing costly. Just helpful tips.
Boys need guidance. Too many people use poor boys for labor without getting them.
Seinfeld is literally all talk. I don’t think it’s cute because he could do a little something.
Just to say–Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward stayed married throughout their adult lives AFAIK so I don’t think his masculinity was hiding any toxic behavior. I don’t know about all the other good old guys, but Newman could portray masculinities without being a jerk. (And he did a lot for charity as well!)
Gregory Peck’s 2nd marriage to Veronique Passani in 1955 also lasted until his death in 2003. I think it was the late 90s when I attended one of his national speaking engagements where he told interesting anecdotes of films from his career. There was a out-take of one scene in MacArthur, where, as the famous WW-2 general, he was supposed to disembark a boat nearing the shoreline & purposely march through the crashing waves. He immediately face-planted. Peck particularly enjoyed MotherNature taking the p!ss out of the moment. I thought it was really cool of him to choose that scene.
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He also spoke lovingly of his wife & meeting her during a European press junket. Their timeline may/may not overlap on the 1955 finalization of his divorce. Paperwork took time back then; there was a reason folks set up residency in Nevada or Mexico back in the day to move things along.
People are complicated; marriages are complicated.
Check out the docuseries “The Last Movie Stars”, about Paul & Joanne. It’s very good & informational. A satisfying watch.
Is that the doc Ethan Hawke directed? I have my eye out for that one on the few streaming platforms I have access to. [or hopefully the library will catalogue a dvd]
He’s welcome to be dominated by ‘real men’ anytime he wants but the rest of us should be allowed to opt out.
@ Soapbox Damn! Well said 🎯
Yes!!!!
Jerry’s main trait is being entitled and petulant. Pretty much the opposite of Paul Newman/Gregory Peck masculine.
Yeah real men don’t go out with 16 year old girls and most white people saw Muhammed Ali as a threat not a symbol of masculinity. Plus he’s talking to Bari Weiss who’s a right winger and a terf.
I have zero insights re how “most whites people saw Muhammad Ali” — but why not BOTH a threat AND as “a symbol of masculinity” ?
A black man? Contrary to revisionist history, Muhammed Ali only became beloved when he got Parkinson’s disease. Plus the symbol of masculinity has always been a white man.
Again, I’m not privy to white peoples and their “revisionist” history. There are many people who loved Ali when he was Cassius Clay — and loved him even more when he renamed himself. Your comment reads like you’re saying that white people only jumped on the bandwagon when he got Parkinson’s— and, in their minds, may have been viewed as being less masculine and less of a threat.
In America, at least, Black men have certainly been viewed as masculine — even by white men who viewed this as a threat: hence the violence, the shackles, and the glorification of white womanhood. I’d be interested in what you’re relying on to support your points though.
Edit: 1:24 — I should have been more careful in my comment to avoid generalizations and to at least suggest some historical context.
SOME white men, at SOME points in time viewed and stereotyped SOME Black men as being not just “masculine “ but as hyper-masculine, and used this to justify multiple abuses and cruelties including the horrors of slavery and racial segregation.
@Amy Bee
I remember that time period well, and Ali was beloved AND he was intimidating. He wasn’t just a boxer, he was a showman who loved the spotlight – and people wanted more. Yes, he was controversial, but that was how he wanted people to view him. He and Howard Cosell fed off of each other and became a formidable team.
Of course people rallied around him when he developed Parkinson’s – he was a beloved sports figure. He also brought much needed attention to traumatic brain injury in boxing.
Ah, Jerry Seinfeld and Bari Weiss: a match made in… well, someplace I have no interest in visiting.
Eh, I’m going to say I don’t think this one is particularly awful on his part. He’s being honest that he enjoyed that 1960s Hollywood man image, even as he acknowledges it has problems, and words it in a way that’s a little self-depreciative. Sounds more like he was being slightly facetious about his own tastes, not pulling an ultra-conservative “men should be dominant, women should be submissive” declaration. Not saying I like or agree with him, but there are far worse things being said right now in politics.
Ewww. Tell it to Harrison Butker, Jerry. We don’t want to hear it.
We hadn’t heard much from this whiny unfunny milquetoast in a few decades. I had not missed him at all, and his return to the airwaves has been most unwelcome. Can someone please shove him back into his box and sit on it?
He gave the game away when he prefaced his nostalgia for “real dominant men” with a longing for hierarchy. He knew where he fit (near the top) under the old hierarchy. Now he doesn’t.
“we have no sense of hierarchy and as humans we don’t really feel comfortable like that.”
I have never in my life yearned for hierarchy, always enjoyed being free to do what I want as long as I don’t hurt somebody else. He is a rich white man and without doing nothing, he would be at the top of any hierarchy created by mankind. That is why he thinks he would be comfortable in that kind of society. If he was gay, black or born as a woman, he wouldn’t say sh*t like that.
Exactly. I prefer inclusion, respect for others, and democracy. I don’t want or miss a hierarchy of oppression.
Exactly this 👆. The only people who long for hierarchy are the beneficiaries of social hierarchy.
He’s saying he feels more comfortable when he’s the boss when women, Black and Brown people, queer people etc know their place.
Yep. I personally don’t wish for power over anyone. I wish for all the freedom to be equal.
Agreed upon hierarchy??? What? He means a hierarchy that benefitted HIM because no one else but white men agreed to any of that. Good thing the rest of us decided that was bullshit and fought hard to shake off those restrictions. I’m sure Jerry is glad his daughters can go to college and follow their interests freely. He simply cannot connect the dots that life is better for everyone else because of this progress.
We still have a long way to go, but I am thrilled I wasn’t forced into Trad-wife life, which surely have been the case back in the 60s. I was able to get an education and a career I enjoy.
I think it’s also worth noting that several high-profile trad wife influencers have recently snapped out of it, publicly proclaiming this lifestyle has serious flaws.
Ok idk why we are hearing so much these days about what this irrelevant old fart thinks, but
> that is why people lean on the horn and drive in the crazy way that they drive — because we have no sense of hierarchy and as humans we don’t really feel comfortable like that.”
1) He longs for a hierarchy because he wants to be placed on top. No good person in America —especially not Mr Ali and Mr Newman, both of whom supported civil rights—would want to return to the hierarchies of the 1960s.
2) People drive crazy because there’s not enough hierarchy? Can you imagine if instead of taking turns at a four-way stop, the most important person got to go first?
This man is a fool, and I feel dumber for having engaged with his pov.
Yeah his road analogy makes the opposite point that he’s trying to make. The rules for driving (supposedly) apply equally to all. It’s not intended to be a hierarchy. It’s a social construct and a government regulation.
Same, @WiththeAmerican. Most decent people don’t think like him, but I bet it’s been decades since anyone questioned this guy’s logic to his face.
Bari Weiss is a totally intellectually vacuous person who likes to bill herself as an intellectual “Maverick.” She’s Joe Rogan for centrist democrats who don’t want to face up to their NIMBYism.
Jerry Seinfeld, who has a long history of railing against “cancel culture” (which doesn’t actually exist… see Louis CK, Chapelle, who remain very much un-cancelled) is totally dogwhistling here– this is some serious Men’s Rights B.S.
And screw it, I’ll say it (I’m Jewish, so don’t @me): He’s hyper-Zionist who literally FLEW OUT to the West Bank to partake in an IDF “fantasy camp,” machine guns and all. (There are links, this is well documented).
So any way: crap right wing politics.
To clarify, it’s not IDF’s fantasy camp. The IDF is not involved with this fantasy camp.
Also, what a moron Seinfeld is to say he likes a hierarchy. Does he know Jewish history and the big masculine Adolf Hitler? What a freaking moron/pedo/zero-talent/right wing/POS. Participating in the fantasy camp is the height of racist white male privilege.
Agree, crap right wing politics. If someone is a claiming they’re a Democrat who likes her, they either aren’t paying attention, aren’t reading her, or they’re lying. Ms. “Libs of TikTok is a martyr” is no centrist.
She’s an ally of Glenn Greenwald, for heavens sake.
These grifters all know the right will pay a lot for someone claiming to be a centrist who just so happens to agree with their hateful politics.
I feel vindicated.. I hated Seinfeld and have never found this man funny. When his show was popular I never saw the appeal,I watched a few episodes but the show always made me uncomfortable. I always felt like I was the only one who was a little triggered by him.
Same same same. The only good thing to come out of his show was the woman actress (her name escapes me, I have a fever today so forgive me but watch Veep).
I always hated that show, it made me cringe, adolescent and bitter men who refused to grow up, not so funny.
I’m embarrassed that I did like that show ok when it was on, suppressing my reservations about the all-white cast of a show set in NYC to fit in with my classmates who were into it.
Wish I could say I’d seen through him at the time.
Anytime I hear a white person pine for bygone “American” decades, my soul cringes.
He must be the only person on the planet who’s idea of a real man is Howard Cosell. 🤔
Haven’t heard that name in a month of Sunday’s 🙂
I grew up watching Seinfeld so it’s disappointing to listen to him now. Looking back, he was the weakest link of the show. This actually reminds me of something I read recently about how there was this same type of hand-wringing in the early 1900s about men not being manly enough. It sounded like the same garbage they still write today. It’s almost as if (toxic) masculinity isn’t a natural state of being but something that abusers use to normalize their actions…..
While his intentions likely lean towards navel gazing than malevolent, his ignorance is astounding. The most glaring: Men of color in the U.S., for instance, had a far different experience than the one he imagines.
“Men of color in the US, for instance, had a far different experience than the one he imagines.”
Thank you
I used to enjoy Seinfeld back in the day. But man Jerry sounds like a real d*ck. And not in a “manly” way at all.
It’s interesting to hear how Seinfeld sees himself. He’s not traditionally masculine as was portrayed in mid 20th century movies, but he’s certainly traditional by today’s standards. As for “dominant,” he was one of the most dominant comedians of his generation, highly paid and highly influential. And he has certainly benefited by the existing hierarchy. It’s hard to tell from so few quotes, but it seems to me that he already has everything those “real men” had.
Real (38 year old) men don’t date 17 year olds.
This. And he still talks about her too, I read something recently where he said that at one point, he thought he was going to marry Shoshanna (as if that made it alright). So yeah, he knows, he just doesn’t care. Going by what he’s saying here, its what he wishes he could’ve done. But like someone else said above, Redford, Peck, and Newman didn’t marry teenagers.
Nah. Jerry Seinfeld doesn’t get to talk about admiring Muhammad Ali, an anti-war activist who supported Palestine and opposed Israel’s occupation of the region. Seinfeld in the same breath literally called the massive waves of pro-Palestinian student anti-war protests “so silly” in the same interview
This!!!
The word dominant kills me. Hierarchy will eliminate crazy drivers? He is expressing himself so poorly ” I get the toxic,I get it”. If you truly do please elaborate. He has a wife and daughter after all. He is making no sense. He said Hugh Grant is a real man because he knows how to dress,be charming and has stories to tell. What about character Jerry? What an awful interview.
Missing HIERARCHY is why people honk their horns???!!!!! Oof. Soooo misogynistic.
Seinfeld showed his ass decades ago with FRIENDS. The absurdity of a lily-white cast set in the most diverse city in America spoke volumes about Jerry.
That’s probably what he misses most: the ability to ignore and erase POC in today’s entertainment. Poor fragile Seinfeld Karen, it’s never going back to the “old days”. Better put your therapist on speed dial.
Ooops! Jerry had nothing to do with FRIENDS. My bad.
But he’s still a fragile, toxic racist.
@Beverley I agree. He was criticized for that at the time, and—like gervais, CK, Chappelle, and all the other “cancellation” victims who won’t go away—he’s become a RW weirdo because being wildly successful and making gazillions wasn’t enough for him—he wanted those tiresome [Black people/women/Palestinians/ trans folks/ etc] not to criticize him.
I guess in a proper hierarchy, he wouldn’t have to hear their opinion of him at all.
He takes ‘old man who yells at clouds’ to an entirely deeper level.
He’s become a literal caricature of a grumpy old white man.
I’m assuming he’s surrounded by ‘yes men’ who wouldn’t dare remind/advise him that he’s been given so much luck in his life, and that it’s now time to give back and mentor the young and up and coming.
I cannot imagine being a zillionaire, sitting on my wealth and making sexist comments here in 2024.
I also read this morning that he just ‘doesn’t care at all’ about the poor and negative reviews of his current movie.
It’s occurred to me that he might be experiencing some brain pathology via neurological abnormalities.
I miss the marbled rye version of JS!
I’ve never liked him and I grew up when his show was at its peak and everyone was watching it. I used to think he was just not funny and now I know he’s just deeply unlikable AND unfunny
One of the so called ‘masculine men’ he mentions is Sean Connery… Need I say more!
Paul Newman, Robert Redford… I get it. They’re people who feel “safe,” like everything will be ok. To me it really sounds like Jerry Seinfeld is saying “I need an adult.” He believes feelings of competence were once taught to little boys as, like, a social norm. Maybe? But being told you’re the king of the world from birth isn’t the same thing as learning to feel sure of yourself and your own decision-making. Be your own adult, Jerry.
I really loved Comedians in Cars Drinking Coffee. He has ruined it. Hierarchy means someone is underneath and we’re done with that.
Says the man who dated a high schooler when he was In his 30’s and took up with his current wife right after she came back from her honeymoon. Jerry is a gem of a real man.🙄
@Mel good memory! I had completely forgotten that he got with his wife as soon as she got back from her honeymoon.
Very interesting breakdown of Bari Weiss in the comment thread here; thanks to the informed posters for your insights.
He’s never been the brightest banana in the bunch and he has a reputation for not being the nicest person. He should be thankful he leveraged a modest talent in comedy and turned it into a $1 billion – and cut down on the self-important manner. Dating a 17-yr-old when he was that much older is gross.