Yesterday, I tweeted: “I’m not going to watch the debate tonight. I’m a committed Democrat, there’s absolutely nothing that will happen on that stage which will keep me from voting for Biden.” True then and true now. I literally would not care if President Biden drank melted Kerrygold butter from a flask on that stage while hitting Hunter’s crack pipe. I’m still f–king voting straight Democratic Party in November. In fact, I genuinely wish that President Biden was in full IDGAF mode. This is his last election, his last campaign. F–k it, you know? Hit the pipe on stage and call Trump a Nazi motherf–ker. DO IT.
Well, Joe Biden did not do that last night. I still haven’t watched the highlights and I’m not going to. Someone said Biden had a cold and that he seemed especially out of it. I believe it. The debate started at 9 pm! IN JUNE. I’m 40 years younger than Biden and I would have been out of it too. The Biden campaign was the one pushing for an early debate as well – for decades, the presidential debates only start after the national conventions, which means for many election cycles, the debates happen post-Labor Day, which is traditionally when “independent voters” decide who they will vote for. They claimed that the Biden campaign wanted to draw a stark contrast early on, before the conventions. Now I’m wondering if the Biden campaign wanted to put Pres. Biden up there so early to ensure that no one remembers this sh-t in November.
I don’t know if there are plans for more debates in the late summer or early fall, and I would assume there will be a lot of conversations within both campaigns. It’s not like Trump did well, it’s just that the bar is in hell for a convicted felon and insurrectionist Nazi. Trump was on that f–king stage talking about “Black jobs,” for the love of God. Anyway, if there’s another debate, start that sh-t at 7 pm, let the candidates sit down and I hope Biden’s people give him a double espresso and let him hit the pipe.
I know no one wants to hear this right now but this old man has been the most accomplished progressive president of the past 50 years.
— Mikel Jollett (@Mikel_Jollett) June 28, 2024
Trump: …”the Blacks” and “black jobs”
Black People: pic.twitter.com/3sb7UjHDCS
— 🇵🇦Dr. Ronald Gamble | Theoretical Astrophysicist (@Dr_Gamble21) June 28, 2024
I don't care if Biden needs two nap times in a day and can only digest oatmeal if he eats it before 2pm, he is still better than Donald Thieving Racist Coup-Plotting Rapist Trump.
Your one Black Job this Fall, dear Americans, is to vote for Biden. Jill will wake him on time. pic.twitter.com/jNcWmXn3q5
— Carmen's Granddaughter (@CarmenGranddau1) June 28, 2024
Photos courtesy of Backgrid.
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- Savelletri of Fasano, ITALY – The leaders convened to discuss global economic and political issues, emphasizing international cooperation and unity. Pictured: Joe Biden BACKGRID USA 13 JUNE 2024 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
Fronting this with, I’m not American. I watched some of the debate this morning, and read comments from both sides of the sea and both sides of the political spectrum. Biden didn’t do well. Why is he insisting on standing again? Is it too late to change candidates? Essentially, why do you (I take it most on here are American) have such elderly presidents?
I wanted to add – Trump failed to lift himself out of the mire of personal mudslinging and repeating on issues that dated a long time back but I couldn’t edit my comment before my time ran out. The Sunak/Starmer debates haven’t been overly great, either; these TV debates really bring home how limited both sides can be when it comes to voicing policy.
Mainly because policy requires nuance and people want you to explain how a 100 page law will impact people in 30 seconds or less while smiling charmingly. A lot of the issues we have today is because we have made civics something that people have to spoon feed to you instead of the onus being on individuals to be educated. It’s constantly so and so suck at ” messaging”. To answer your first question though I think that we have elderly presidents, because elderly people are reliable voting block. That’s not to say that no elderly people support or will support younger candidates, but the amount of people that I personally know that complain about the people in positions of power who also have never voted is a perfect Venn diagram.
I hope this comment hits somewhere where Dee(2) can see what I’ve posted below Millennial. Thank you both for your insights. Dee(2) the venn diagram analogy is great.
A lot of the journalistic professional class is calling for Dems to change candidates at the convention, but I don’t think that’s super realistic, nor do I think it gives that potential candidate time to garner support. As for why we didn’t have younger options – IMO during the Obama years, Dems didn’t do a great job cultivating the next generation of potential leadership. Now, I think we have that with Newsom, Jeffries, Whitmer, etc…. So we have better options, but probably not until the 2028 elections.
There was discussion last night on different news sources about switching out candidates. It is not technically too late. Kamala would have the least amount of hurdles, process wise. Gavin Newsome, Pete Buttegeig, Gretchen Whitmer, Wes Moore are all also being floated.
Thanks for the insight. So, essentially, the party hasn’t had time to grow its takeover candidates. I did wonder. We’re in a funny predicament here in the UK. As another Brit commented on a recent post under the UK election stuff, those to the left feel they have little option but to vote for Starmer, even if they don’t feel he’s particularly great. We’re stuck in a ‘between a rock and a hard place’ mentality, with a lot of people voting ABC. I don’t know what to vote. It’s largely uninspiring. I’ve never been this much of a floating voter before.
Replying to myself. I should say some to the left feel they have little option but vote Starmer. Lots on the left no doubt rate him highly. I’m speaking from the viewpoint of my family/friends who find him weak. Being centre/centre left, I have voted for the right before. I’ve done this because I’ve wanted a strong light blue Tory candidate to the left of his/her party, in the hope that they’ll pull the debate leftwards at critical times. I did this around Brexit. Our conservative candidate wins the seat more often than not and he voted remain, very vocally. I hoped he (along with his colleagues who voted stay) would pull the Tories left/moderate on how we exited the EU.
From what I can tell, in 2020, Biden was purposely picked to be the democratic candidate bc he was seen as an elder statesman who countered trump’s erratic behavior. Biden won in crucial counties in battleground states. Incumbent candidates typically win re-election. Minus the republican candidates like George Bush Sr. and Trump and of course the dem, Jimmy Carter. So, despite him being old, that’s probably the reasoning for why he’s running. Swapping out a candidate would be seen as riskier and idk if that’s ever even happened before. US history people please chime in😂. People still feel burned by 2016 so they want to go with someone who has beaten trump before and it’s pretty rare for a president not to go for a second term. I’m not sure it goes beyond that.
I’m voting Democratic either way, but my god I would kill for Gavin Newsome. A handsome young tall white guy would drive Trump crazy and he’d win.
Totally agree.
The DNC is full of ideological factions and frankly arrogance. They never do a good job of fielding candidates and rely on their high horse instead of understanding the psychology of marketing.
As an American I find it really disappointing that they didn’t use Biden term to anoint someone else. Same with Hilary actually. That she was the only viable option speaks to their lack of forethought.
The Repubs play a LONG game- back in the 90s the evangelical right was placing articles in freaking Vogue magazine about their Christian coalition for crying out loud.
Their success at the polls is sometimes an accident but the way they’ve moved southern democrats to the Republican ticket over the past 40 years is def not an accident.
@Jais, I think it goes a bit beyond that in that the most obvious “good” candidates for the Democratic Party nomination after Biden are not straight white men. Harris, Booker, Wes Moore, Buttigieg….would all be great candidates — but also, by their very identities would be rejected by huge swaths of potential Democratic voters without appealing to Republican voters or many Independents. That leaves Gavin Newsome — and candidates even less well-known. This situation is also the result of having a two-party system in an increasingly polarized, divided country — within an Electoral College system structured to reward the votes of straight white males and those who vote with them.
If we had genuine Democracy — where the popular vote prevailed — we probably wouldn’t be in this mess right now.
Biden is also a candidate who had been the Vice President, and now is the incumbent, so, he fits the profile of the usual party candidates. It’s hard for the to break away from that type of template when the consequences are so consequential.
A young person didn’t win the 2020 primary. Biden did.
@Jais, I think we need to go further back in history — to get to where we are right now. Obama’s candidacy was a historic gamble. Pairing him with the older, politically well-connected, white, male Biden made Obama a more generally attractive candidate. Then Biden as the prior Vice President made him the expected candidate for president, and now, as the incumbent, it’s the same thing.
At the same time, I don’t think Biden would be the chosen candidate— and I don’t think Biden would be running again — if Trump were not the Republican candidate.
It’s a mess —with monumentally tragic potential consequences. And we don’t yet know who Trump will pick as VP. (I’m guessing Vance.)
Sorry for babbling so much. I’m terrified. I’m also contemplating the “Black jobs” that a second Trump administration will have picked out for me.
No apologies @blythe for babbling😊. You made perfect sense and explained more than I could have. Terrified right there with you. Ugh, Vance. I kind of figured he might pick Haley?
I would absolutely love a younger Dem candidate, but as of this moment, for the 2024 election….I don’t think anyone has a shot at beating Trump except Biden.
I hate that he is our only option, but he is our only option.
All Trump had to do was be coherent to come across as the clear winner – that’s how low the bar was for him, and he succeeded.
I think it’s quite irresponsible for the Democrats to insist on having Biden as the candidate. He’s too old, he looks and most importantly he sounds it and using the excuse that he had a cold is just not good enough.
Surely Trump will win, if things stay the same.
Biden has successfully steered the country out of the abyss of the Pandemic, out played the Republicans in most things despite having to deal with a Republican house and the Manchin/Sinema nonsense. I am sorry I do not care if he is old and has a cold/stutter. I am voting for the person who has a competent administration and aligns most closely with my politics. Whining about perfect candidates is childish. Joe Biden ran because a lot of white America needed a binky. He and his administration have done well despite the media being against him and favoring that nitwit at every turn.
Honestly that more people and pundits whine about Biden dropping out than demanding the convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government drop out is mind boggling.
Maybe the problem is not Joe Biden’s age and stutter but us-the voters.
Biden is not running the administration, not like this. It’s quite obvious. He can’t remember things, he seems to not know where he is at times. This is not what you want from a candidate. Calling it out does not equate to whining, but if it does then what you’re doing is sticking your head in the sand.
I don’t see how he finishes another term as President, but I think therein lies the plan. Even before that he has to get over the hurdle of the campaign. This is but the start and it does not look good. No one’s looking for a perfect candidate but there has to a bare minimum and he doesn’t meet it, which just makes him weaker against Trump.
@KP – Thank you for a great summary.
@Mrazi – Sounds like you’re a big Trump supporter. I say if you prefer the after-birth abortion nonsense reality show candidate who’s willing to mount an insurrection against the government because he didn’t win an election, go for it. Personally, I rarely watch debates. I agree with Hillary Clinton (NYT 6/25/24) “Too often we approach pivotal moments like this week’s debate between President Biden and Donald Trump like drama critics. We’re picking a president, not the best actor.” Sounds to me like you’re gung-ho to support Trump, so you should.
@kirk, read what I wrote not what you heard. My fear is that Trump will win because of how badly Biden is coming across (this didn’t start with the debates by the way). Is that short and clear enough for you?
Those who are locked in as either Democrat or Republican won’t sway. We’ve seen this with Trump supporters. What happens to those in the middle? That’s where the danger lies.
Yes, KP!
The fact that people are screaming for another democratic candidate because Biden is too old and maybe senile is MIND-BOGGLING to me.
Trump is a twice impeached, insurrectionist, Nazi, convicted FELON. We need a new Republican candidate.
Mrazi – Biden is getting older, but to say he is not running things is an egregious push of disinformation. Lots of people (and some I know) have dealt with him privately and confirmed he was still very lucid. I am not going to pretend that he isn’t physically and mentally slowing down, but there is a difference between losing stamina and acting like he doesn’t know what is going on.
@KP what you said should be repeated 1000 times.
…………”Honestly that more people and pundits whine about Biden dropping out than demanding the convicted felon who tried to overthrow the government drop out is mind boggling.”
Democrats are held to the highest purity standards (oh geez Biden performed badly in a debate – but Drumpf consistently acting totally demented and perpetually clueless gets a pass?). A republican can lie, grift, assault and insurrect and still be deemed better qualified to hold office. I don’t know what is wrong with people.
You could put a rubber duckie on the ticket and I would still vote straight democratic. People need to think long and hard about the direction republicans want to steer this country.
In this case, I think Biden decided to run — and the Democratic Party is backing him — because he is the only candidate alive who has a proven record of beating Trump.
Trump’s hold on his base is something that seems quite different from the relationships that previous candidates—of any party — have had with their constituents. And Trump is widely seen as benefitting from the racist backlash to President Obama and the increasing political polarizations within the US. So, for the Democrats to back anyone other than a straight, white, Christian, male with centrist appeal as their candidate for president — it would be widely viewed as political suicide in a race against the unaccountably charismatic cult leader Donald Trump. Trump is a unique candidate — and Biden is the only person who can say that he has a proven track record of having beaten Trump.
@sparrow1 I think the thinking is Biden beat Trump before, he is the only one to beat him again. They should make an age cap at 70 personally.
Thank you for your insight, Andrea. Yes, an age cap would be a very good idea. During our most recent Sunak/Starmer debate, the question of the night was considered to be a member of the audience asking “are you two the best we’ve got?”. Went down a storm. When I saw last night’s performance, I thought, are these two old men the best you’ve got in America? This, I must add, was on the basis of yesterday’s debate, not a comment in the round.
Mrazi. Your questions is entirely sensible to me. Can Biden carry on, given the indicators of his age? And how does that factor into voting amongst people in the middle. I’m currently weighing up options over here between Sunak and Starmer. This floating group is core. Labour is worried about the millions who usually don’t bother voting at all, but may come out next week and vote Tory. Not everyone has to be continually politically invested to determine a victory for one side or the other.
When you don’t participate in any election local or national this is what happens. Biden did not want to run the first time. With the rapist, racist Donald ( the orange as*hole) Trump he chose to run again. So, many people voted against their own interest and now we are in a fight to safe democracy. There are so much right wing government and has always had right wing government all over the world. This did not happen in a vacuum. These corrupt people in government were always there. Now it is affecting people’s lives and they are now paying attention. At least it’s not too late. Hopefully citizens of this country and others will engaged and stay active in their government.
For decades the age requirement has been an issue, but very little people have paid attention. But now they can’t stop talking about it. We should have had laws already on the books to prevent that. Same with the age in congress and life appointments for the Supreme Courts. The elected officials in the senate has a long stay before their elections, another thing that needs to change.
THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE NEEDS TO GO. THE MONEY IN CAMPAIGNS NEED TO BE REFORMED. THE ELECTION SEASON IS TOO LONG.
Like it or not changes are coming the good and the bad.
Too many citizens of the US and other countries have sat on their asses not voting for the right people but complaining. Well they put Trump in office, see how that turned out. Going forward we will not see candidates that old any more.
REMEMBER BIDEN DID NOT WANT TO RUN, BUT WITH THE DISASTER TRUMP WAS AND IS HE DECIDED TO RUN. THIS MAN COULD HAVE BEEN RETIRED WITH HIS FEET UP DRINKING A BEER. I AM VOTING BLUE UNTIL I AM BLUE IN THE FACE. IF YOU STAY AT HOME YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
One answer is money. It costs a lot of money to be in DC politics and younger people don’t have enough yet or don’t have enough billionaire backers yet. The president lives at the White House of course, but senators and representatives have to be able to afford commuting back and forth to a second home in DC (and you can’t use your campaign funds for that).
A vote for Trump is a vote against women and humanity.
🎯
This. I don’t care who is at the top of the democratic ticket, I’m voting straight blue. The survival of our democracy is at stake in this election—if Mango Mussolini wins, we live in an autocracy.
Exactly.
Vote Blue.
I agree, but also so is staying home and NOT voting. Everyone needs to vote blue, straight down the ticket.
👏👏👏
Amen.
Thank you!!! FFS One is maybe too old and didn’t perform well in a debate. The other is the Anti-Christ who tried to overthrow democracy and a convicted felon. Biden could literally pronounce schedule SHED-ULE and program PRO-GRIM and be on his deathbed and I’d vote for him.
At this point if you need a debate to decide this I can’t frigging help you.
This all the way and every day.
Proud to vote for Biden as overall he has done a wonderful job these past 3.5 years. He is a progressive and surrounded himself with a young, progressive administration.
Not to mention LGBTQ rights, book bannings, anti-immigration etc.
Truth.
The list is sadly long
Yep. Biden could be six feet under and he’d still be a more compassionate, effective president than any republican candidate I have seen in years, much less a Nazi felon like trump. There’s nothing that could make me vote anything other than straight ticket democrat this season.
@Krista…………….nothing more needs to be said!
Agreed
I didn’t watch the debate, and I live in EU. The press here about the debate is saying the worst stuff about Biden, they say he absolutely lost and showed he’s incapable.
And they say this in concern because we don’t want Trump.
So… I am not going to watch the debate. Because now I am worried
Well, according to Trump he is the most respected president in Europe and everywhere. He kept saying that Putin would never have invaded Ukraine if he were still president because he respects (and fears!) Trump so much. I was screaming at the tv, Putin doesn’t respect or frear Trump. Putin owns Trump! Say it, Joe! Joe never said it. My great niece said Biden looked like “surprised Pikachu”. So true.
I always figured trump was good with Putin invading Ukraine. So that seems off anyways.
T-rump claims Russia wouldn’t have invaded Ukraine if he were still president? And yet he’s still considered leader of the Republican party and congressional Republicans are having a cow about funding for Ukraine…puuhleeeze.
The only reason Putin didn’t invade Ukraine when Trump was president was because he was waiting for him to finish dismantling NATO so he would have a free hand like Hitler in 1940 when he rolled through France and the Low Countries pretty much unopposed. Under Biden, he’s had to fight, or, more precisely, his military has had to. The Russians have taken big losses because of NATO.
In truth, there was some intelligence mutterings that Putin had planned to invade Ukraine in Feb. of 2020, while T was still in office, but COVID stopped the plan in its tracks. So, you see, he preferred to do so with the orange sh!t stain still in office, as he knew there would be insignificant pushback from the US. He knew that not only would trump not try and stop it, he’d probably sabotage NATO and allies trying to interfere on behalf of Ukraine. And he would have once again taken Putin’s word over his own intelligence agencies like he did in Helsinki.
If he gets back in, there go all our intelligence briefings from allies. As I understand it, several European agencies withheld findings from the US, as they KNEW trump was forwarding the information. I wouldn’t be surprised if our agencies were given false info to see if it fell into the wrong hands, and then it did.
It’s not just the US in danger if he ever gets in the WH again, it’s the entire effing planet!
Laalaa, I’m in the UK. I’ve watched some of it. I’ve also spent too much time reading commenters from both sides, and deep in the middle, of the political spectrum, both here and abroad. It was depressing. Whether you’re left or right, it was a good grief situation. IMO. And not an American.
We’re voting for Joey B. and his excellent cabinet. We will prevail.
Joe is the only choice if you want the American constitution to remain the law of the land.. it’s simple choose the constitution or choose a facist authoritarian who hates this country’s citizens who don’t look like him.. I’m tired of the hate, I didn’t watch the debate because words don’t matter actions do.. Jan 6 was an eye opener that we are being destroyed from within and no we are not above collapsing. I want my country back, I want my rights back.
Oww, I saw a lot of “black jobs” memes last night (with no reference to Trump or Biden or debate), it makes sense now 😂😂 I don’t think any of these debates will change people’s minds. People who support Trump will support him no matter what. He is literally a racist, misogynistic, rapist, convicted felon. I remember in the past, some people lost campaigns because they acted cringe or weird one time. We are truly in unprecedented times.
Exactly, this isn’t going to change minds. I don’t believe there actually are that many “undecided” voters at this point anyway. The key is getting over our general voter apathy and getting people out to the polls in legit numbers.
Also, remember Howard Dean losing his bid because his voice cracked one time? 😑 Like, it’s absolutely quaint thinking about how something so insignificant could have tanked a campaign, when now we have a convicted felon on the ballot. What a freaking world.
Trump also kept referring to “blacks”. I kept waiting for him to say “the blacks” which is even worse.
Biden was not energetic b/c he has the flu. Trump lied about everything and is a convicted rapist and convicted criminal.
I would have been happy with coherent, but he wasn’t that either :- (
Watched approx 30 min and, yeah, wish I hadn’t. I’m voting straight Democrat in Michigan but I’m worried, like many are…
Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.
Wouldn’t have gotten that with t-rump.
I really wish all countries had dignified and respectful leaders on either side, which would ensure the winning party was led with integrity and the opposition led by dignity. A functioning democracy needs two agreeable sides to ensure healthy balance and debate. Continual ad hominem attacks and the pedalling of falsehoods never bode well. I found what I saw of the debate very disheartening. Utopia thinking, I know. (I’ve commented here for some reason when it doesn’t match the above posts. Apologies.)
I don’t care if he’s using a walker while whispering his speeches and propped up “Weekend at Bernie’s” style for the next four years. Biden is a good and decent man who leads quietly and successfully. That orange menace does nothing but lie and is hell-bent on destroying democracy.
We also have Kamala as a backup. That’s literally her job. I’m good. I’m staying with Team Biden.
Have you seen the tweet that says “The real problem with Joe Biden’s age is that she’s Black.”?
Let’s all say the quiet parts out loud. We can’t address them, otherwise.
It was really bad. But, moderators let the clown lie. What’s up with that?
Yes, I’m more disappointed with them than Biden. Biden could have fallen off the stage and I would still vote for him but Jake and Dana are just gonna sit there and let Donald say that he was the one who lowered the price of insulin with zero push-back?? That was apalling.
Trump was only better than Biden because he lied with such conviction. Biden didn’t even tell the truth with conviction. He just stood there looking dazed and confused by Trump’s tsunami of lies. Didn’t Biden’s team know that Trump would lie every time he opened his mouth? Did they think they were debating a normal politician? Maybe they did prep him for the lying. If so, it didn’t take. Or he was just too incoherent to deal with it all.
@brassy
He acted like he was not lying. That’s the whole point, and no one stopped him. Like, yes or no question, he talks fairytales of stolen elections. He really can get away with anything. I am sooooo pi…ed.
Guys—these were the details that BIDEN agreed to. He and his team wanted this debate and agreed to no fact-checking because they didn’t want to get bogged down and lose momentum. Turns out that didn’t matter because Biden was halted by his own incapability.
It’s unreal to me that people are looking for any reason to blame ANYONE except the guy who deserves credit here: that’s Biden. It was HIS job to fact-check trump’s insane claims and he had so. Many. Opportunities my GOD.
This was an absolute disaster by any metric and the fact that there are still people in the Dem constituency that will continue to make excuses for Biden’s failure given the insanely low bar instead of, ya know, engaging in some self-reflection is why we’re here.
We NEEDED Biden to show the same fire he did at SOTU to counteract one of the biggest criticism people have of Biden, which is that he is old and incoherent. Biden failed to do that. He couldn’t even keep his damn chin up and look into the camera. He looked like he was sundowning the whole time. Where was the trademark grin? Where was the fight and conviction and energy? Was he not prepped AT ALL for this debate that HE insisted on?
Oh, he was sick? Then why not SAY that ahead of the debate so people will know?
The party will never change. Never. Because lessons are never learned, just more excuses. And I feel like so many of y’all are more concerned with defending and protecting Biden than actually beating trump.
CNN did a shity job of it! They did not fact check live and they let Trump spew his lies all over the place and they let him. Joe was battling a cold and his voice at the start was not good but it got better. Joe told the truth and what he wants for the future. Trump just did what he always does and that is lie lie lie.
They also let Trump blather on about whatever nonsense he wanted to finish his thought on instead of answer the question about the opioid epidemic. I was like, Jake! Tell him to answer the question!!!!!
CNN is awful. I stopped watching/reading them when one of their commentators commented something about it being a shame the Steubenville rapists futures were now ruined. Umm, the rapists? Not the poor girl who was videoed and carried from place to place and urinated on? No. They don’t get any support from me
If Trump ever answered the question about if he would accept the election results, I didn’t catch it. Those “moderators” had a duty not to move on until he answered that question. Straight up. Yes or no.
He answered if it was fair and legal then yes he would except but went right in to how corrupt the last election was and the corruption was awful. So if that’s an answer I don’t know. I think he will not and go back to it’s all rigged and corrupt.
Not an answer for him because he said the last one which was problem free was “rigged”. They just let him wiggle out of answering yes or no which they should have insisted on.
Right with you, Kaiser. We opted out of watching. The idea of a second Trump presidency is the stuff of waking nightmares and I truly do not understand why anyone who isn’t a one-percenter thinks there’s anything positive in store for them or the rest of the world in that situation.
The debate was in the middle of the night, European time(s). I read some articles about it this morning….
I’m freaking out about living in an Eu country, which voted for a far right party that wants to destroy the constitution. I viscerally remember TFG’s presidency, which did the same. I’ve known that no matter what, I’m voting Democrat no matter who the candidate is.
This result is awful, though. Trump’s voters do not care about what he says or does—they’re going to vote for him. Biden doesn’t have that luxury. I’m upset that he didn’t do a better job of it last night, because he is trying to stop the US from picking Agent Orange. Tired or not, ill or not, he had to do well and he was unprepared. The tiny amount of swing voters, suburban women, young voters were given reasons as to why he isn’t competent and Biden needs to make sure that he’s far better next time.
I knew I wasn’t watching when CNN confirmed that they wouldn’t fact check. Why bother? Trump was going to lie, Joe was going to get into the details and not provide quick snappy sound bites the way he always does, and it wasn’t going to change my vote. At the end of the day the media landscape definitely needs a horse race, but I don’t know if it really changed any votes. I don’t know anyone who is voting for Biden who isn’t also voting to maintain democracy. I’m not even sure outside of political junkies who will remember this in a month. Maybe people on social media a lot see things differently because the algorithm curates what you see and feel that votes were changed last night I’m just not feeling it.
Let’s just pull a page from the MAGA playbook here: declare our guy the winner and move on to the next low hanging fruit. Biden DID win, he was the only person speaking truthfully. Let it go. Still going to vote for the guy who is competent over the convicted felon, FFS.
The next Scheduled Debate is September 10th on ABC News. I agree with the time thing. I watched it (in my pajamas) I might add and while Biden did not do well at all, in my opinion, he seemed sharper than I would have thought without notes. I think the week long prep at Camp David helped a lot. He seemed confident and not confused. More people think Trump “won” (60/40 or 70/30 depending on the source) but you can think that Trump won the debate, and still never vote for Trump. Just like people can think Biden won and never vote for Biden. Obviously some people will vote for RFK Jr and he wasn’t apart of the debate although he live-streamed his answers on X. I think RFK Jr. is a much bigger problem for Biden than Trump is.
I did not realize there was going to be another one. Ughhhh I’m so scared of this upcoming election
Elle, you think Biden was “confident, not confused”? You must have watched a different debate. And if his debate prep helped, I would hate to see him unprepared. 🫣 It was truly brutal and, yes, I’m still voting for Biden. I’m getting drunk for the September debate.
Disagree about your point on RFK Jr. Polls show his campaign losing steam and the type of people he is courting are so conspiratorial and distrusting of society, he’s more likely to siphon votes from people who don’t find Trump extreme enough. I would be far more worried about the combo of Comrade Jill Stein and Cornel West taking votes away, particularly in swing states. Shades of how Stein screwed Clinton over in 2016.
I hope to G-d they start the second one at 4 pm. Biden can be punchier and more alert than he seemed last night (see the State of the Union). Did the flu medication make him sleepy? Did he not get a good night’s sleep?
The answer he gave on abortion—one of the Dems’ most winning issues!—was totally incoherent and at the same time harmful. Gah.
It was a shitshow, and it’s heartbreaking and yet kinda what we have earned thus far. I’ve canvasseds prior to primaries and general elections on and off for decades and the last two years especially have left me feeling hopeless. So-called Democrats and progressives (in my major city, at least) seem upset yet unactivated. I was #77 at my poll at 6pm for the primary this year. WTF?
Also, it’s such a sign of human 1st world cultures, “I didn’t watch it, but let me give my two cents.” The world of headlines, memes and (poorly constructed) shortcuts to information at its best while the ignorant ones (on both sides) pull out their bullhorns.
“I literally would not care if President Biden drank melted Kerrygold butter from a flask on that stage while hitting Hunter’s crack pipe.” DEAD
I really wish they had given Biden some of those performance enhancing drugs Trump kept saying they would give him.
Trump accused him of being on coke and all I can say is please feel free to hit a few lines, Joe, whatever it takes!
Ikr! If there were a magical “shot in the butt” he coulda taken that magically makes him coherent, he shoulda fricken TAKEN IT!
Someone said it perfectly on Twitter last night. We’ll be voting for Biden if he’s in hospice drawing his last few breaths. Not changing my vote. Kamala is great as backup and Biden has been beyond competent as president. I would not lose the faith because of one poor debate performance.
Heck, the Republicans stand behind that orange fool even after 34 felony convictions, and being held liable for rape and fraud. But we’re supposed to give up on Joe because he had one bad performance, but continues to do the job well every day? Not happening. I stand with Joe.
Agreed
Agree, 100% ! Joe is capable, competent, empathetic, knowledgeable, etc….
The thought of TFG back is making me physically ill…BUT…motivated to write postcards, donate money, get involved, fly my American flag and VOTE!
VOTE DEMOCRATS, VOTE! xo
Yeah I’m gonna need some more optimistic celebitches to calm me down😂. Like Kaiser, I didn’t watch it so I’m just going off what’s being said. It’s pretty early, just June, so that’s good. It makes me sick to even imagine trump being president.
I’m so glad that I found you here! Even if there was no Project 2025 I would STILL be voting for Joseph Biden and Kamala Harris. I hope that our fellow commenters step back and breath because it is June and we have to keep running the race together.
Talk to people and get them registered to vote.
Commit to phone banking.
Go canvassing and send out post cards.
Vote BLUE down the ticket.
We can do this!
Thanks @girl_ninja. Don’t worry. Im definitely voting for Biden. That’s not even a question. Time to look up some canvassing options. Hopefully, the prospect of another trump term will galvanize anyone who had just been casually sitting on the sides.
Why does Biden HAVE to have a second term??? Would it have been the end of the world, for Biden to gracefully decline running for a second term, so the Democrats could find someone younger, more vibrant, less baggage, and someone NOT very likely to DIE before the next four years is up??
I do not, never will understand why that simply was not an option. It does not HAVE to be a given that every single president tries for two terms.
He is probably polling better with independents. People know him and trust him. There is no doubt, they did a lot of inside polling for alternative options. Against Trump, they wouldn’t risk it by going with another candidate.
Less baggage than Biden?
What baggage r u talkin’ bout?
American Rescue Plan of 2021?
Convening COVID-19 Health Equity Task Force?
Rejoining World Health Organization after t-rump pulled US out?
Shipping free rapid COVID tests to American public through USPS?
Inflation Reduction Act of 2022?
Is that the kind of baggage u talkin bout?
Don’t forget the Infrastructure Act. Remember how Trump kept having infrastructure week and then nothing ever happened?
Kirk, one word- Gaza
Kirk, I said the wrong word, I meant Palestine. (Lol!)
Annalise, I started to reply to you but it switched to an advert about something. I’m rushing again today. Argh. So, should my half comment get posted, please think nothing of it and move on. I asked the same question as you have, see above. Apparently, the Democrats haven’t had time to ‘grow’ candidates within the party and it would be too late now, anyway. I’m not American.
Agreed. It’s giving “RBG won’t retire and now look where we are” vibes.
I’m voting for Biden.
I know what Project 2025 is all about.
News pundits don’t want to fact-check 45 because they make money showing clips of his rants. I see little difference between Beltway pundits and the Royal Rota we talk about so much on this site. If they call 45 a liar now the game is over and there will be no more invites ($$) to sit at the roundtable and pontificate.
#Biden2024
So agree. It used to be that the press needed access and politicians needed to get their message out. But now they aren’t limited to traditional media to speak to constituents so what was once more balanced is now swung largely in favor of politicians.
This is a bad analogy. Biden has a very competent successor in VP which RGB never had. A lot of this hand wringing is thinly disguised racism and misogyny directed at the idea of a Biracial woman VP taking over.
FDR served 3 and half terms from a wheel chair while ill. Truman took over. JFK was killed and Johnson took over etc. It happens. Presidents die in office.
I would rather vote for Biden knowing he may not serve a full term because I can see his VP is also committed to democratic ideals and not a would be dictators flunky.
If you didn’t watch it, don’t…it was depressing, but like so many of you all I’m voting for Joe. Period. If you go on the NY Times and read the fact checker, everything Trump said is ‘false’ or ‘misleading’, shocking!
I didn’t watch and not sure I’m even going to listen to commentary because it doesn’t matter to me. I’m voting blue!
I read Heather Cox Richardson’s excellent newsletter this morning after I wrote this and highly recommend it!
Calm down. First & foremost, CNN failed the country and themselves. Biden was sick and his team probably should have limited his interactions yesterday to just the debate. Instead, he had 2 events prior to making it to the studio. But…Tapper & Bash sat there and did nothing to reign Trump in, keep him on question, nor fact check in real time his many many lies. Yes, Biden was off, but damn if the man wasn’t shell shocked and dumbfounded by all the lies and bs coming from Trump. Once he realized there were no rules, Joey from Scranton came out swinging. He made salient points about what his administration had done. He called out Trump lies. He said what we all know. Trump has the morals of an alley cat. Stop freaking panicking. Stop suggesting a change in the ticket. Donate and vote. Period.
I came here because the political websites I visit are all having massive freakouts this morning. From the clips I saw he looked and sounded like he always does, a little more congested though? At the end of the day though even if you thought he was going to drop dead at 12:01 a.m. January 21st, who do you think would have a more law abiding, competent, and morally just cabinet set up to continue on Biden or Trump? We’re voting for democracy people, we don’t get to rewind the DVR in December.
Honestly how does any normal person react to a crazy man yelling about after birth abortions?
Right? Thank you.
Thank you for injecting some much-needed rationality!
Biden had a couple of good, sharp moments but they were so few and far between that no one remembers them. All they remember are Trump’s tsunami of lies and most people won’t know they are lies because no one, not Biden very often or the moderators at all, bothered to fact check him. If anyone didn’t watch, my advice is don’t. It was worse than you can possibly imagine.
I am a liberal through and through but I am already having anxiety attacks about this years election.
If Trump wins we may never recover.
I am an American. Joe Biden may not have had a great night, but he’s been a great president. Strongest economy post Covid among the g7. Lowest inflation. Expanded EVs through rebates and through government support for a highway charging network. Helping graduates with loan forgiveness. Spurring manufacturing. If you don’t think he’s been the best president of the last 20 years, you are paying too much attention to corporate media.
I donated $250 to his campaign this morning. I will support his campaign with every penny I can spare.
Stop listening to people who profit from trump being in the news. Support the old, sane guy over the facist.
THIS. EXACTALLY1 I am also going to donate today, I hope it becomes a movement to motion our support to all those who say to remove him and change the nominee. He has been a really effective President so far with what he had to work with and I have his back.
Thank you!!! Also for those saying Trump did well? HE DIDN’T!!!! He didn’t answer ONE question and he lied 100% of the time. Look beyond the optics and focus on the substance. Just because he sounded confident doesn’t mean he he did well. People keep falling for this crap.
Hillary won all the debates and it didn’t help her. There is a faction who have been pushing the old Joe stuff for months and so they love this.
Trump was a crazy man screaming dumb shit. How is that not the talking point. Biden wasn’t great but he rarely is in this format.
The media wins when they do this horse race thing. And so many are falling for it.
People forget that Obama “lost” his first debate against Romney in 2012. He regrouped and did better in the next two debates. Trump helps line the pockets of the MSM and the 1% so they’ll do all they can to help him win the election. People need to tune out the noise and do all they can to register voters and aid Biden’s campaign.
Edit: And all that screeching about replacing Biden has its roots in the fear of Kamala finishing out Biden’s term in office if he’s unable to do so. Obama broke their brains when he became President and the the thought of a black female President is unthinkable.
Yes! Let’s talk about the racism and sexism behind the old Joe let’s replace him stuff. Kamala is his VP and she can handle all of it should the need arise.
Mightnight@the oasis, I can only speak for myself, but my desire to see Biden replaced with a better candidate, is not due to not wanting to see Kamala
Harris to become president. I would be fine with Kamala as VP running mate, just not to Biden. I like Kamala, in fact, I like her a LOT more than I like Biden. I think she has been given a raw deal as VP in which she was underutilized, not made visible enough, and used as a bit of a scapegoat, and given the WORST, most un-winnable issues to tackle.
But even though I like Kamala, I am aware that much of the country is, yes, still too racist to want to see a WOC possibly become president (frankly, I have very strong opinions about racism in America. I firmly believe that if you are white and you grew up in any country that colonized other countries (which i am and i did), had slaves, etc, then, whether you like it or not, whether you KNOW it or not, you have racist notions. Maybe you don’t hate POC or want to see harm come their way, but as white people in America, I strongly believe that we need to confront our racism. We cannot change what we won’t acknowledge. I myself had to face the fact that I previously would invade black spaces and expect people there to be grateful for my presence. Another way that i displayed racism was when my black friend would describe unjustified shabby treatment she received in various places, and would inform me that it was racism, i would be skeptical. Im not anymore. It’s something I’m ashamed and embarrassed about now, but I know if I didn’t face it, I’d still be doing it. And as I’ve confronted my own racism, I’ve become more and more aware of racist notions held by my white, liberal friends that i previously was oblivious to, and that THEY are oblivious to and have vigorously argued with me about, upon pointing them out. And I’m sure that I an not completely cured of my racism yet, in fact I think it’s dangerous to think I’m “cured”) so I guess my point is that you are very likely correct by and large, that racism is at the heart of people’s concerns about Bidens age. But if that is going to prevent people from voting for Biden, then we need a new candidate, imo.
I guess I’ve just been wanting to express these beliefs about racism in Western nations, and you provided me an opportunity.
The democrats messed up with this one. I like Joe, but this was outrageously bad. I can’t imagine how the next few months are going to play out. This is such a disaster. If Joe sticks to the top of the ticket, this will be Walter Mondale all over again. If they have an open convention, this country will descend into total chaos. I can’t believe there aren’t any better options. At this point I’d take any sharp, slightly younger democrat. Beto, Rahm, Stacy Abrams, Pritzker, Gavin…anybody but this. I prefer Elizabeth Warren, but that will never happen.
If you like Stacey Abrams, you should read one of her political books and truly absorb the messages she has about so-called ‘swing’ or ‘undecided’ voters vs. voter suppression and reaching out to voters unknown to pollsters.
Actually, in the debate last night, Biden was playing Reagan who seemed out of it in his first debate with Mondale. Not as bad as Biden came off but bad enough to cause consternation for Republicans. He did better in next two and everybody forgot the hint of dementia.
To paraphrase Stanley from the office, I would vote for an “upturned broom with a bucket for a head” before I ever vote for a Republican. I didn’t watch (can’t stand the Nazi’s voice) but read some reaction….I don’t care. I’m voting blue straight ticket, every election, rest of my life.
I will vote for Joe no matter what, but this debate asks voters a critically important question: can Joe handle another 4 years as president? I don’t think he can. Even if last night’s performance can be chalked up to a cold, I think the right thing to do is for him to step aside so the Dems have the remaining time to build a campaign around a different candidate. I’ve seen a few names thrown out there and I know I would vote for them come November. I read that it’s possible for Obama let’s say to be an interim VP if Kamala becomes president upon Joe’s retirement. Or maybe Mayor Pete. Anyway, my point is this is the best option and we should maximize the time we have left before Election Day.
I’m going with the commentators like Ruth Ben Ghiat and Katie Phang – Biden might have not performed well, but he has substance and his economy is booming. The other choice is destruction of democracy..
https://x.com/KatiePhang/status/1806521758217834705
https://x.com/ruthbenghiat/status/1806641826910142516
This. All day long.
The most alarming thing for me about the debate last night was the CNN staff reaction to the “debate.” It was as if they became Trump supporters. As if they had been drugged. Horrifying.
I caught a few minutes of that before I could turn it off. No mention of Trump lying his ass off for 90 minutes.
As long as Biden can breathe, he’s exponentially better than the Concentrated canned orange thing.
I’m sorry but this is bad. Yes, I am going to vote blue all the way but I’m happy with Harris as president so the “a vote for Biden is a vote for Harris” people do nothing to deter me. However, this country has shown again and again it is still too backward thinking to vote for a female president. The thought of President Harris will cause a lot of people to stay home.
We can’t have a president that needs to debate at 7 because 9 is too late for him. Or one that gets debilitated by a cold. I like Biden. He has done an amazing job the past 3 1/2 years and he was exactly what we needed after the insanity of Trump. But he needs to step aside now.
No interest in sugarcoating – it was bad. The Joe Biden today is very diminished compared to the Joe who ran in 2020. Yes, they should think about a contested convention. It’s not ideal, but it might be necessary. The times we are in are far too serious to play like this.
The idea of having a contested convention is one of the worst things that could happen. Look at history. It would do nothing but ensure that Trump wins.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/02/04/contested-presidential-conventions-and-why-parties-try-to-avoid-them/
THIS. Thanks for the link.
There is no way I would ever vote for that rapist felon Trump and I side eye anyone who does. As far as I could see Trump was in full bully mode like always and there is no f*cking way I’m voting for him or any Republican. They are fine with Trump as their candidate and leader so f*ck them too.
I hear this, loud and clear. See my comment below where, as a Brit, I’m astonished a right leaning American would think Trump reflected and embodied his/her hopes and identity as a Republican. It’s weird to me. I’m more sympathetic to right wing voters: they exist and getting rid of them from the political system wouldn’t serve the overall interests of a democracy. But, seriously, how does Trump equal decency or integrity.
We do not need fascists, misogynists, racists, etc in our discourse in order to be “balanced”. I realize you are a Brit, but these people surrounding Trump are not “conservative” they are corrupt just like he is. Anyone who doesn’t see that is complicit. I don’t think we even know the half of what they have planned for this country and these people will have the nuclear codes.
MsIam. That is exactly my point. How can straight thinking Republicans imagine Trump is morally the right horse to back. There are surely decent and intelligent right wingers who cringe when he opens his mouth. I would hope so, anyway. We suffered the populist twat that is Johnson, but the American President is in a totally different league of importance. Johnson got us into the disaster that is Brexit but thankfully he wasn’t in position to determine a potential world war iii. Fearful times.
@MsIam I not only side-eye who does, I see the people that can be easily swayed and manipulated. It is quite scary.
It’s really weird to me that a right voting American would think, yes, Trump is the ideal candidate for me. There was recently a BBC podcast called The Coming Storm, all about the growth in fake news and pinpointing it to a staff suicide during the Clinton years, considered by conspiracists to be a murder. As the podcast went on, they of course brought in Trump. There was fair and interesting discussion with his rust belt supporters and also Republicans who bemoaned Trump’s lack of decency, wishing for an old style conservative with more integrity. I too wish such a person for the American right but I don’t see someone stepping forwards. I’m sure Trump thinks he’s the modern day Jackson, crusading on behalf of the common man, but unlike Jackson he’s never held political office before his presidency and has never been in the military. The right in America surely deserve better. A better right wing would serve all sides; an opposition party needs integrity, too.
@sparrow1 Republicans have exactly what they wanted. I’ve watched them, for my entire adult life, give lip service to xenophobes and line the pockets of the wealthy. Most anyone decent has been pushed into the ‘centrist’ position and under the enormous tent that is the Democrats. Republican have had the past four years to get a candidate who wasn’t a felon and they said “nope, we want the felon”
The Coming Storm is an excellent podcast. Absolutely recommend.
It was devastating. I would vote for a comatose Biden over Trump. But this was a gut punch. I have voiced my fears to my brother for months regarding my fear that enough Democrats won’t come out to vote among my other fears in this presidential election, and he said he wasn’t worried. He texted me this morning: “NOW I’m worried.”
Sorry I replied to the wrong comment!
I didn’t watch because I had a feeling this might happen. The man is over 80. He’s going to be tired at that hour. He might do great, like he did in the SOTU, or he might falter. So it was the latter. Not a surprise. And of course the media will jump all over it, as they have been for months actually.
But I don’t care. He could be incapacitated by a stroke in November and I would still vote for him. Because he is responsible and experienced. He has a competent VEEP and he tends to put good people around him. I’m just going to pull that Blue lever and we will figure the rest out after the election.
Biden is old but Trump is old, corrupt, crazy and a danger to democracy. It’s not complicated.
Oh, and all of this talk of Biden stepping down? And be replaced with whom? If they do somehow manage to replace Biden at the convention or otherwise, fine, I will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee. But I can’t control that and I’m not going to wring my hands over it. I’m just tired of journos and talking heads flinging around the “Biden should step down” narrative when they ought to know that would be VERY hard to do at this stage. They do know, but they don’t care. They just say it anyway for clicks. Too many members of the Fourth Estate have lost the plot.
Yes, the President is old. Yes, at times last night, he slurred or froze in his words, as those who stutter often do. Yes, his voice was raspy and faint. He obviously has a cold or respiratory ailment of some sort. But he answered every single question with replies relevant to the question asked, he understood policies and their impact. He knew the laws and history. Meanwhile, the other old man’s replies were not only lies but never addressed the actual questions. Dana Bash did attempt to direct him back to her question several times but was too vague when doing so. She should have come right out with it. “Sir, you did not answer my question, you have 45 seconds to do so,” NOT “sir, my question was …., you have 45 more seconds, would you like to add anything.”
Also, people need to be called out for proof of their assertions. Where is the data to support the claim that undocumented people murdered 100,000 US citizens in the past 4 years? Or that they’re voting in federal elections? Or the number on these “post birth abortions” – an old quote from the former governor of Virginia isn’t proof of anything.? Also, just exactly how do you close or open “the border!” The border I see nearly every day is the Atlantic Ocean, how do you close it? And what the hell does Hunter Biden or his laptop have to do with anything?
Finally, I am fed up with the ageism and ableism in this country. You don’t get to call people senile or demented just because they’re old and it’s discriminatory to deny a job based on age or impairment. Anyone using those terms needs to be called out for it
Exactly. I’m in my 50s and if I were not feeling well I wouldn’t have done any better than Biden did last night. There was one debate in the 2012 election where Barack Obama was ineffectual and seemed like his mind was elsewhere most of the time. It was bad. Romney destroyed him. And that was Obama! He was in his 50s at the time, just like I am now.
Why do Democrats struggle so much to just back their candidate? Biden is far from perfect but he is sane, experienced, responsible, decent, and has actually done a good job as POTUS. Voting for the other guy is unthinkable. Having him back in office?! I shudder at the thought. It was traumatizing and it would be worse the second time around.
I am going to pull that Blue lever in November no matter what. It’s not a hard decision at all.
Kirk, one word- Gaza
I am not sure it matters whether Biden is running the country or not. Reagan was President with Alzheimers (twice). He wasn’t running the country. He just came across better, as strong and physically robust. In point of fact, his mental capacity was probably worse. Is that any less dangerous? Besides, I agree with the commenter who says his administration has done a good job of advancing progressive policies. Not great. Good given the political situation.
I take comfort from the team around a leader. Wasn’t there an anonymous article in the New York Times from a Trump administration adviser re how he and a group of his colleagues were working to disable some of Trump’s agenda from the inside out? Obviously didn’t work! My concern for Biden wouldn’t be domestically, more his performance on the international stage. This concerns me as a Brit outsider.
When Mussolini came to power in Italy, my grandfather had to flee to the US because, as one of the leaders of a communist group at his university, the fascists put a price on his head. Relatives who remained would eventually die fighting for the Italian Resistance in WWII. One cousin was shot in a notorious massacre in Milan, ordered by a Nazi commander. A couple of stepcousins were seriously injured in a bombing in Bologna in 1980, perpetrated by neo-fascists.
My family knows, from hard experience (not that that should be necessary; the signs are not f–king subtle), what fascism looks like and sounds like, and what fascists are capable of. The Republicans ARE FASCISTS. Project 2025 IS TYRANNY. No one can afford to be passive or apathetic. A protest vote for a third party, or a refusal to vote at all, IS A VOTE FOR TRUMP. People need to stop being precious about the “perfect candidate”; he or she does not exist. Biden is more coherent than Reagan was during his second term, and he has a capable cabinet behind him and Kamala Harris waiting in the wings. IDGAF if it’s a “Weekend at Bernie’s” situation, VOTE F-KING BLUE!
If Republicans can hold their nose and vote for a repulsive criminal who gropes women, everyone else who is a democrat can vote for Biden full stop. All the Bernie people who sat out and didn’t vote for HRC is why we are stuck with Trump still.
It’s funny how we’ve all become media strategists over the course of the last decade. So we have a malignant narcissist, convicted felon, sexual assaulting, drug addicted fascist with many signs of dementia who tried to stage a coup to retain office, who spewed non stop lies and nonsense last night (while not being fact checked in real time), vs an elderly gentleman with a stutter and a cold, someone with a proven track record who pulled our chestnuts out of the fire when the other guy—personally responsible for 700,000 plus deaths due to a public health crisis he poured gasoline on—came close to driving the country into the ground, and all we’ve been taught to care about is “the optics” based on some theoretical, low information voter in Wisconsin or Pennsylvania who’s apparently been in a coma for the last decade and apparently can’t decide if they want our democracy to continue or not. This is all MSM feeding the news cycle for clicks. Yes, Biden was obviously off his game last night, but the media is *choosing* the story they want to sell for the melodrama—a story which should be that Trump literally cannot speak a single sentence without lying so outrageously that it remains absolutely shocking. They could choose to lead with this, but since they’ve already utterly normalized us to the complete insanity of Grandpa Racist, sure, let’s talk about THE ALL-IMPORTANT OPTICS. It’s absolutely maddening to me.
🎯🎯🎯
Yes, Diamond Rottweiler. Thank you. Voting Blue proudly.
I did not watch the debate because I couldn’t stand the idea of watching/listening to Trump. But reading the news this morning was an absolute shock. Is Biden a great debater? No. But I expected Biden to do okay and Trump to completely fail. I think he won in terms of optics. How much is that going to make a difference? Biden voters won’t change and Trump voters won’t change, but what about people on the fence? Will they just sit this out? I have been thinking for a while that the Democrats should have been grooming younger members to run instead of sticking with Biden. (And I like Biden.) Is changing from Biden to someone else a disaster at this late date? I don’t know. I have been convinced Trump would never win, but I feel sick to my stomach. Hindsight is twenty twenty, but Biden should have said, “I won’t debate a convicted felon” and we might be better off. If Trump wins, the country is absolutely finished.
Kaiser is 100% right. Biden has been an incredibly accomplished president, he’s smart and he’s capable. The handwringing and wailing is so on-brand for Democrats — just stop. It’s a stark choice and let’s get it together, get it done and make sure America doesn’t end up in The Handmaid’s Tale.
Yep. This is no time to chicken little. Get off your “buts” and vote. And register voters, get out the vote and donate. Post positive accomplishments and tell all your friends.
Don’t waste your time and energy being negative. Take action!
And yes, Biden is hands down the best president of my lifetime and I’ve been around since Eisenhower.
I’m already tired of the “Joe Biden seemed tired” take.
Trump should have never been on that stage. For media to compare them, to pretend that in anyway shape or form they are equals, is wrong.
There are too many people who prefer spewing lies confidently to telling truths quietly. CNN failed big time not fact checking anything.
Everyone keeps talking about younger candidates. But I can’t think of a younger person that has stood out the way younger candidates like Obama did. It’s kind of strange actually.
Even among the Squad, I don’t necessarily think of them as …charismatic and statesperson-like…in the way Obama is and was. Maybe communication styles have evolved and that’s affecting my perception, but I don’t associate gravitas with anyone anymore.
I only caught a glimpse of it. Biden sounded lackluster and weak. It’s like his mike was muted or something. They should have postponed if he was sick. Trump was loud and outright lying. Denied what happened at Charlottesville, rambling on saying Biden was a bad Palestinian, saying he talked to Putin about Ukraine, lying about Biden’s record. Now some wobbly Dems are freaking out and acting like Chicken Little. They really are on the anyone but Kamala train and it is pathetic. The way Trump lies, the fact that as a felon, who sexually assaults women, who tried to overturn the election, is a minor problem on their part is just mind blowing. Voting for Biden/Harris. No other choice and Harris is more than capable of stepping in if Biden can’t finish his term.
James Carville uses the term “bed wetters” to describe Democrats in panic mode which they usually are at least once an election cycle.
The last two presidential elections I voted against Donald Trump. It wasn’t a vote for the democratic candidate but a vote against Trump. Now for a third time I have to once again vote against Trump. The Democratic Party can’t continue in this fashion. It can’t be a vote against the other guy. I honestly thought Biden was a stop gap at the last election and that the party would come up with a serious viable candidate that Biden would campaign for, but here we are.
I seriously think the thinking is he is the ONLY man to beat Trump. If we throw in someone young, he will be accused of being too young and inexperienced, they did that with Obama. And we obviously and sadly cannot throw in a woman again or a person of color against Trump. So old white man versus old white man is the ticket. If everyone voted for Bernie in the primaries OR held their nose and voted for HRC, we wouldn’t even be discussing Trump now.
It’s wild watching everyone last night wake up to the reality some of us have been flagging for months, and then see all of them this morning self soothing themselves back into their bubble of delusion. Joe Biden should not be the candidate, in fact he should not even be in office now if his performance last night is any clue. At the end he was looking at Dr. Jill as if he didn’t even know who she was or what he was doing there on stage. Everyone saying that it’s ok that he is borderline senile with one foot in the grave because we have Kamala, well then why is he running at all? Why isn’t she the candidate? And if you set this all aside you still have his Palestine problem which you blue state people in the northeast can ignore all you want, but the race comes down to just a handful of contested states and the loss of youth votes in those states WILL sink him, the repercussions of the brutal suppression of campus protests will be felt in November, and anyone who denies this is living in LaLa land.
Chaine, This☝️
All of this
I just refuse to believe that out of all the Democratic and Independent Senators, Governors, etc, in the entire US, that Biden was the ONLY viable candidate, and I feel very much that the numerous legitimate criticisms about Biden were ignored (and just because he’s not Trump doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have to do ANYTHING to get my vote, nor does it mean he should be IMMUNE to criticisms, in my opinion. To me, Biden has been blatantly ignoring a HUGE red button issue, and a stronger stance against Netanyahu would have gone a loooong way with me, and i refuse to disregard Biden’s lethargy in dealing w/him . But also, I live in DC, which isn’t voting red anytime soon. So even if i don’t vote, and I might not, DC will go to Biden. If I lived in a swing state, I wouldn’t be as cavalier about not voting. ) and like someone else stated above, it sounds like the Democrats didn’t take the time to grow other candidates, and if they had, I wouldn’t be listening to a bunch of people try to convince themselves that this debate doesn’t matter, and that Biden has this election in the bag.
My co worker just told me that 25% of Americans are undecided. I don’t know how accurate that is, but do YOU like those numbers?
I think I read if there is a high turnout, Biden will win and if there is a low turnout, he will lose. So that 25% needs to get it together!
Annalise. Sidestepping foreign policy and coming from the angle of the UK, I totally agree with your view on this. My immediate reaction to the debate was how weak Biden was, physically and mentally. Does that mean I thought Trump was great? Hardly! But by comparison he looked more confident. It hurts to say that. 25 per cent of voters being undecided is massive. On the basis of that performance alone, how many will drift away from Biden. I asked the question at the top about how the Democrats (and Republicans) got into the position of having such elderly candidates. I understand there wasn’t time to further the careers of any other Democrats in time for this election. Such a shame. Criticism isn’t unwarranted.
Another problem with Biden running, is Kamala Harris, and that polling amongst registered voters is showing us that most (55% the last I saw) view her unfavorably. This is not my view. I like Harris. I am looking at the reality of the situation, regarding Biden’s age, his rapidly declining health, the liklihood of him dying before the next 4 years is up, the fact that a lot of people do not want to see Harris become president, and I’m sorry, Biden appears to be in REAL cognitive decline.
Biden HUMILIATED himself, he was confused, he couldn’t finish thoughts, and I don’t have faith that he will retain whatever mental capacities he has left, and we can keep pretending that him not being Trump is enough for the rest of America, but the current polling numbers say otherwise. and if it’s possible to switch up candidates, that is what I think they should do. Ignoring the uncertainty that appears to be growing regarding a Biden presidency, to me is foolish.
And yes SHAME the moderators for not questioning Trumps blatant obvious lies during the debate. THAT is what I think people should be using their voices for right now, the CRAZY bias showed to Trump
I sadly think if she were a white woman the polling would be higher(but even better if she were a white man; we have so much further to go in our society). Also sadly, there are so many assumptions about people of color that still proliferate in the US AND many parts of America who only grew up around white people still.
I’ve said all along they were doing Kamala a disservice. They dumped her with the border, of which they did jack shit about, and it made her look bad. And all Americans want better border security and policies. Also, for a period of time she just was not seen or, to me, utilized in the right way. She isn’t always the best communicator. I am fine with Kamala taking over if Biden declines even further. I have faith in her.
But the poll numbers can’t be ignored, sadly.
If Kamala Harris were a white woman the polling would NOT be any different. See: Hillary Clinton. We had the chance to ensure the first female president was a white woman in 2016 and we blew it then. Would not make any difference now either.
Joe was off last night, and it’s a damn shame. It sucks 100% that he just didn’t have the vim and vigor from the SOTU and other recent speeches. I’m mad at his handlers for not making him rest all day yesterday and preserving his energy for the debate, and at CNN/Tapper/Bash for enabling Trump and his lies and not holding him accountable for his BS all for the sake of ratings and money. Ultimately this debate is not changing any minds at the end of the day, and honestly it might scare a faction of “undecided” folks enough to know that they have to vote come hell or high water to ensure that we retain the right to vote again in 2028.
I’m agreeing a lot with your takes re Biden’s performance and his ability to carry on. I tell you why his apparent failing health worries me as an outsider. Domestically, how he performs has consequences for you as Americans. Internationally, how he performs has consequences for us all in the west and beyond. And whatever team is around him, no one else can realistically take his place at international conferences and press events. What he says and how he says it really will matter when it comes to international relations.
Sparrow1, I wholeheartedly agree. One of a president’s most important skills is the ability to orate in an articulate, confidant, and effective manner (I don’t think Trump actually won in 2016 which is the only thing, to me, that explains how someone as uninformed and unarticulate as him “won” in 2016), Biden sounded like he could barely BREATHE. How is he going to give effective speeches?? That matters!!
Newsom Whitmer ticket would wipe the floor with Trump, but there is no chance that a change is made at this stage. I actually felt really sad for President Biden last night. I’m sure he’d rather be retired than be doing this, but I think he genuinely believes that he is the only one that can protect the world from Trump.
Mina, I TOTALLY agree, did you see Newsom debate deSantis? He made DeSantis look like an absolute FOOL. And DeSantis is smarter than Trump. Can you IMAGINE the quick work he would have made of Trump??
And if Biden really thinks that only he can save us from Trump, we’ll, then that kind of arrogance could very well usher us into 4 more years of Trump
I realize I am in the minority here, but I think the Ds are in trouble. The American expat community I belong to in essentially voting against Trump. My never-Trump R family members who voted for Biden last time are unanimously not committing to him this time. My Asian family members are pissed off and refuse to vote for him either. I haven’t gotten in touch with the Trump R family members, but they’re effing behind him and going to vote. I’m in a D bubble that has no enthusiasm for Biden, and while most people I know will vote, it means that Biden is not attracting the harder-to-get voters. We need people to inconvenience themselves to get to vote. We don’t want them to protest-vote for third candidates or not show up. We know Trump is out for a fascist state and that he’s a lying, traitorous criminal and for whatever twisted reason that doesn’t seem to matter. So our candidate needs to be top quality and appeal beyond our base. Biden was not that candidate in the debate, sorry. The fact that Harris is there is fine, but she’s not running. The fact that CNN didn’t fact-check is evil, but not a surprise: Biden’s main job is convincing people to vote D. He has to improve exponentially for that to happen.
Brilliant comment for me, ML, because it really helps getting a wider US insider view of what is going on. I’m in a centre left bubble of people who have no enthusiasm for Starmer, some of whom are so bored of him they’re thinking of not voting at all. Some of the left vote here is ABC founded, rather than an optimistic Starmer vote.
Sparrow1, Thank you for your kind words, but just be aware that I live in the NLs, so my friends, family and community might not be representative of how America votes. From what I’ve seen from here, it does seem similar to Starmer.
On Tuesday, the new far-right et cetera government will be sworn in here. It’s so incredibly horrible! My family and Dutch friends are really upset. Timmermans was a good EU politician, but he was too sedate for national politics and Wilders won.
So to segue to SevenBlue, I see what’s potentially happening in the US already happening/ has happened in Europe in the national elections. It’s just that the US is more important internationally in terms of foreign policy and influence. What people who vote right of center hear is just totally different from us, and it’s so frustrating that we can’t reach them. However, us putting someone who isn’t top quality is seriously unhelpful.
It’s an interesting take on domestic policy from a faraway ex pat position, ML. The swing to the far right in Europe is frightening. Look at France, as well.
Hilary outperformed Trump in every debate. In the end, it didn’t matter. It is very weird people can refuse to vote for Biden. Ok, cool he isn’t their man, but if Biden doesn’t win, Trump is gonna make sure there will be no other election. He already filled the supreme court with bunch of religious weirdos.
Biden could have literally napped in a Lay-Z-Boy for the entire debate with a sign that said, “I’m Sleepy Joe” propped up in his lap up on that stage and I would still vote for him over Donald Trump.
He could have sent a piece of toast in his place and I would vote for the piece of toast before I vote for Donald Trump. At least a piece of toast won’t take away any of my rights.
Agreed. I’m the same. But this very well could damage voter turnout for Democrats. Apathy is a real thing. Most of us understand the urgency of Trump not getting back in office. All it takes is Trump having the same turnout as 2020 but Dems and undecideds not turning out again in the numbers needed. There was already a lot of apathy by college kids and by many Democrats and undecideds regarding Biden. People underestimate that Democrats could end up having a lower turnout out of pure apathy toward this administration. It’s a very real problem we’re facing.