If you want to be disgusted, skim through this New York Times article about how some major Democratic donors are threatening to withhold millions of dollars unless President Biden drops out of his reelection bid. The timeline is as follows: the national media and beltway media used Pres. Biden’s poor debate performance to create the narrative that Biden could and should be pushed off the ticket. Democratic donors got spooked and they started pulling strings and screaming down the phone to senators and congressmen, who then did the donors’ bidding and went on briefing sprees with the same beltway and national media outlets who pushed the story.
As mainstream Democrats and Dem party elders eat their own in what can only be seen as the second coup attempt of the past four years, it’s weird that the most progressive Democrats are still solidly ridin’ with President Biden. Bernie Sanders has come out several times to say that President Biden should stay in the race, and there’s reporting that he’s been doing a lot to back Biden privately. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a longtime Sanders supporter, has been doing the same and calling out the Democratic Party for this coup attempt. Last night, AOC did a breakdown on what’s been happening within the party:
NEW
Congresswoman @AOC just did a nearly hour long live where she shared her grave concerns with replacing President Joe Biden as the Democratic nominee.
Here’s the full video minus the very short intro she did on other work she is doing at the moment. pic.twitter.com/eeVWhRUlwC
— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) July 19, 2024
She’s long-winded and I didn’t watch every second of this, but the bullet points are: logistically, it makes zero sense to dump President Biden from the ticket, and that the party coup will lead to not only dumping the sitting president from the ticket, but also dumping VP Kamala Harris from the ticket.
Photos courtesy of Cover Images, Getty.
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- United States Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (Democrat of New York) questions the witnesses during a House Committee on Oversight and Accountability hearing “Protecting Speech from Government Interference and Social Media Bias Part 1: Twitters Role in Suppressing the Biden Laptop Story” in the Rayburn House Office Building in Washington, DC. Featuring: Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Where: Washington, District of Columbia, United States When: 08 Feb 2023 Credit: Rod Lamkey/CNP/startraksphoto.com/Cover Images
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- Hearing titled ‘Influence Peddling: Examining Joe Biden’s Abuse of Public Office’ in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC Featuring: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Where: Washington, District of Columbia, United States When: 20 Mar 2024 Credit: Ron Sachs/CNP/INSTARimages
Thank goodness for this young generation of leaders.
How do people not see that if they are to replace Biden – the msm would find a billion ways to bring that next person down.
For 2024- to keep democracy from ending – ridin with Biden
The way we dems are eating our own and letting the gop get away with murder every day – is ridiculous.
This.
Cosign.
Also, I read the NYTimes article. It seems the only megadonor threatening to withdraw support is “Tom Strickler, a founder of the Hollywood talent agency WME.” (Please send him nonviolent hate/shaming messages!)
1) Is he the ONLY one NYT is aware of, and they just made it sound like a trend? I want transparency from them.
2) If he’s not the only one, who else is threatening that our elected/hoping to be elected leaders do these mega-rich a-holes’ bidding or else? Because they need to be named and shamed if they want that much influence over an election
For anyone who can’t watch the video, here’s a breakdown of AOC’s points:
https://twitter.com/petersterne/status/1814151594012754255?s=61&t=9TaAsfwrl1H_hiFD2SEi3A
Anyone proposing a change should explain how they’re going to get around the hurdles she points out.
At this point anyone who doesn’t come out with a very strong Ridin with Biden message needs to GTFO out of the party IMO.
I just can’t believe (lies yes I can) this is happening again
Kaiser’s right. Short-sighted, twitchy-handed Democrats should have kept quiet. Turned out ANYHOW that Trump predictably attracted utter chaos and even death to another follower AGAIN -which sends MORE Trump-whiplashed voters running over to calm and chaos-free Biden Harris on November 5. Trump’s already giving me panic attacks again. You too? Biden WILL save us AGAIN, if we LET HIM.
The last minute election cycle noise got louder and triggered Dems’ 2016 PTSD. Seems they couldn’t keep their sh-t together while seeing Biden’s decline up close AND hearing fragile male voters preemptively complaining about Kamala for four years now. A minority of fragile male voters have been backlashing against greater male accountability quite vocally on bro-type podcasts which support Trump.
But like Tony Blair always said, when your opponent moves right, YOU move right, TOO. That’s all Kamala needs to do right now until November to seduce the vocal bruised fragility. PIVOT.
Muggs, I can’t believe that the Dems are actually letting the wealthy determine the nominee. The wealthy are buying a nominee and the voters don’t matter. What is wrong with the Dem Party?
Second
My husband and I are *absolutely* ridin’ with Biden! Go, Unca Joe!
President Biden has worked closely with progressives. Of course she wants him to stay on, they have a good working relationship. A replacement might not. Fair enough.
Biden has also been openly supportive of labour unions for decades. They are essential to getting back the working class segment that used to reliably vote Democrat. The Clinton’s were always more corporate and even Obama didn’t focus much on unions (although he did help rescue Ford and GM which ultimately helped union workers in the Midwest.
Dems are doing a firing circle that makes the Bernie bros stuff look basic.
The Clintons are supporting Biden.
Alex Can, I think you have a decent point there. I love AOC and her politics align more closely with mine than the general Democratic Party, but I’m afraid that the bullet point link (I can’t listen to what she actually says in her IG now) is not the reason for keeping Biden. I do think that VP Harris should be the first in line in this situation, and if what AOC is saying is correct, it stinks that she isn’t. However, Biden is showing signs of cognitive decline and Democratic voters are demotivated. The House and the Senate are at risk if we stay with Biden. I live where the far right won, trust me, it’s scary and awful! Plus, what I hear from people who have emigrated from less blue states than AOC is not good. She’s safe. Probably a lit of progressive candidates come from bluer areas, but we need more than hardcore Democrats to defeat Trump!
BUT ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT CAN HAPPEN TO A NEW CANDIDATE TOO 🙄THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE WILL STILL BE AT RISK
Biden iis not actually showing signs of cognitive decline. He makes old person gaffes, but can discuss foreign policy for an hour clearly and cogently. Trump is word salad. There is a clear difference between the two, and Biden is the clear winner. We need to think about why corporate media is framing the natural aging process as cognitive decline for Biden.
What’s the evidence of cognitive decline? George Conway explained on a cable news show last night (MSNBC) that the with regard to the first debate, from his experience (he is a lawyer so ‘debate’ is sort of related) that the firehose of lies coming from Trump would throw most people off. Add to that Biden had a cold and wasn’t feeling great. Add to that a sitting president is usually rusty on the first debate. (He also overcame stuttering which sometimes re-emerges a little).
Since all this silliness started, I have been sure to try and catch any interview or speeches by Biden. He has been perfectly coherent and gave rousing speeches, the last one to the NAACP. Yes, his voice may be raspy and he walks a bit stiffer but his mind is good.
Trump can jump around like the energizer bunny, babbling incoherently but people are panicking about Biden! I will say this – Joe Biden makes a lot more sense when he is speaking than some of the nervous Nellies and Neds in the media.
@JustStop Exactly. And Joe has ALWAYS made gaffes since the beginning of his political career. Always.
Joe is fine. He’s not suddenly drooling in his soup. He’s been presidenting AND going hard on a presidential campaign. He’s bound to flub a few things.
Respectfully, at the end of the ride, we will all be voting for the exact same candidate whether that is Joe Biden or someone else. You and I agree that the Democrats are the party best placed to represent all Americans and to fight fascism. We might think differently about the candidates, but we agree on the end result.
Swaz, As to switching Biden for someone else: there are no guarantees. What you said is absolutely true. Where we differ most is whether that is already happening with Joe Biden remaining in place as a candidate. I love what he has done, but I don’t think he can deliver that going forward AND the people that I personally know IRL weren’t thrilled about him. Since the debate, I have noticed that he has at best a huge enthusiasm deficit and I’m hearing about Democrats that aren’t planning to vote. I see this as a big problem, and my personal opinion (which is just that) is that we should go with VP Harris. She doesn’t have cognitive decline, she’s intelligent and sharp, she’s on the ticket, she has access to the money, it’s the least disruptive, etc…
JustStop and Just Me 2, I have experienced elderly folks who have gone on to develop different types of dementia and people with Parkinson’s. Joe Biden may not suffer from either, but he’s got a lot of red flags in his behavior that are worrisome. For anyone like me who has experienced people like this in their personal lives, it’s not giving confidence for the future. Joe Biden has done a great job, but if he’s experiencing a decline, that’s not going to improve in the future. It’s not attracting voters. We need to defend our Representatives and Senators and try to keep Trump from winning.
The Democratic voters I know (and I know many in deep red areas) aren’t demotivated because of Biden, they’re demoralized because of the elite party members who are trying to push him out (and replace him with someone other than Harris).
Some of the “old people gaffes” that some people are referring to are related to his lifelong stutter. There’s an extra mental step he has to take when he speaks in order to control the stutter, which when he’s feeling fine is natural for him. Under situational stress (Trump calling him a criminal plus all the “the sky is green” and “water is dry” outrageous lies) and feeling like crap with a cold, it’s harder to do and is unrelated to the QUALITY of what he’s trying to say. Biden’s answers in a transcript read better than what it looks like on tape.
I was impressed with Biden’s unscripted interview with Lester Holt, and also impressed with the lengthy response in the press conference that discussed the nuances of Russia and China.
HES NOT SHOWING SIGNS OF DECLINE!
Donald Trump is and you are all gross freaking people who I pray are not Americans.
Biden’s just old. He is a sharp 80something yo person. That means he is slower than he was at 75.
This is the narrative the right wanted to appear at the center of the problem in the election. Meanwhile, their nominee is a criminal and possibly a national threat. We shall see what happens with the classified doc case.
I don’t think democratic voters are as demotivated as you think they are or what the polls show. The people answering those polls are ones who are actually motivated to answer polls. Most other people do not answer random calls/texts from numbers they don’t know. I don’t even participate in polls coming in, unwelcome, texts from dems and democratic orgs because they’re all a pitch for fundraising (and their emails and texts are friggen unrelenting, even when you reply STOP and unsubscribe to the email list you never subscribed to)
For all those Bernie or bust folks, what the rich white [mostly male] democratic donors is exactly what you blamed the DNC of doing to Bernie (they didn’t, mainstream Dem voters rejected Bernie).
What’s going on now is a prime reason of why we need to get big money out of elections. I don’t want entitled rich dems to buy elections/politicians/judges any more than I want entitled RWNJs to do so
@ML – tldr. Just kidding, I read them both. You seem to be saying lots and lots and lots of stuff, but at the end of multiple lengthy diatribes, I still don’t know who you’re FOR. The only thing you’ve proposed is swapping out Biden for Kamala, so are we leaving the Veep spot vacant? What proof do you have that Kamala even wants to supplant Joe? I guess that’s a point in your favor that you want to keep Kamala, since it sounds like the big money people who want to ditch Joe also want to ditch Kamala. But your arguments are just as hollow as theirs. Y’all need to coalesce around a candidate, or two. And in your case, you should be thinking of Veep at least. Until you’re able to propose actual alternative candidate(s), you should keep your moaning to yourself.
ML, okay, let’s go with what what the elites want (for the sake of argument). There goes Joe and Kamala. Who is on the ticket? Do either of those people have the necessary foreign policy experience? Do either of those people have relationships with foreign leaders? Do either of those people have the necessary skills of getting a diverse group together for a common goal?
Now, what grassroots organization has happened to make these two people viable? Who is out there knocking on doors, etc.? If Biden/Harris is gone so is their campaign organization down to grassroots.
Now, the really big one. Who will be able to calm the voters? There is a LOT of anger amongst the voters because of the elites. If the Dems want to keep the House and Senate, there’s going to be an uphill battle with the individuals who have been calling for Biden to step down. Now, how are the Dems going to calm the voters when they’ve gotten rid of Kamala. I’m telling you, that is going to be an uphill road.
This is just chaos. Isn’t it interesting that the Democrats are now doing the Republicans job for them? I have a problem with the people behind this–Republicans included. If you don’t think this isn’t a Republican thing, then why did the media IMMEDIATELY after the debate start in with this? It’s chaos. The Republicans must be so proud.
“Dumping Harris from the ticket” seems to be the main thrust of the coup, IMHO. Guess who becomes POTUS if Biden doesn’t complete his second term? The pasty white clooneys and podbros would rather have JD Vance, who was just endorsed by Lavrov at the Kremlin, one step away from the Presidency.
Agnes, I agree.
Nothing else explains this idiocy.
They’re basically shouting the misogynoir from the rooftops at this point. Way to piss off black women—the most reliable Dem voting bloc.
It really disappoints me to see all the people who can’t handle the idea of President Harris.
I saw and reposted this:
“The problem with Biden is that she’s Black.”
I trust and admire AOC, but yeah she’s long winded here. I don’t have 49 min to listen to this whole thing. In the first 8 minutes or so, she seems to be saying it’s only elites (ie, people who follow politics and care about swing-state polling), not regular people, who want Biden to step aside.
I object to this framing—by that definition I’m an elite and so are many of us here—but, more importantly, all my American friends I’ve talked to about the debate? Including the ones who don’t closely follow it? Their reaction to the debate, or clips of it, it was, “Omg. We’re fcked.” Not because of polls. Because of who Biden is nowadays, and how he can’t articulate the case to re-elect him.
I didn’t get to her part about how Biden resigning would somehow punt Harris off the ticket? Can anyone who heard the whole thing explain AOC’s thinking on that, or point us to the section of this long recording where she starts explaining it? Bc I thought the most likely scenario if Biden resigns is that Kamala becomes the nominee, without serious opposition
Exactly. It’s delusional and self soothing to say it’s only elites. I’m currently sitting in a key swing county outside of a big city and it’s literally all I hear about all day from people who aren’t elite by most standards. Most lower and middle class people are scared and tired and would do whatever is needed to fend off another Trump presidency.
That’s not how it works. They’d put forth their own choice and every name that’s been tossed around so far has declined.
This is rooted in racism against Kamala and extortion aimed at Democrats by wealthy donors in order to achieve the goal of ousting Biden. There are too many gullible fools in the party and in comments sections falling hook, line, and sinker for it.
Respectfully, no one is falling for anything. We are staring down the barrel of full blown fascism and it’s a horror that this the candidate we have to meet this moment. I’ll vote for him. I’d vote for anyone in this scenario. But it’s just a shocking, terrifying state of affairs
@Mrsbanjo yeah, I agree that a lot of the people who are hoping for a contested primary among Harris, Whitmer, Newsom, and Shapiro are secretly thinking a Black woman can’t win so they don’t want Kamala leading the ticket. Which is misogynoir, if the alternative is Biden, who imo is clearly headed for defeat as swing-state candidates run away from him.
But fwiw Newsom, Whitmer and I think Shapiro have already said they’re not going to compete. It seems to me like if Biden resigns, there won’t be serious competition, especially with only a few days left to pick a new nominee. Idk I feel pretty optimistic that IF Biden can be persuaded to resign, Kamala will be the nominee even if she’s not some wealthy donors’ first choice. (Fwiw the Pod Save bros, who want Biden to resign, are saying Kamala should be the nominee, and they think credible candidates wouldn’t try to oppose her this year, if Biden resigns in her favor.)
Yup, agreed.
AOC raised a good point that I mentioned in the other post – what’s the plan? there is no plan. I think a lot of people just assume it will be Harris as the nominee, but there is no guarantee of that. What are the legal ramifications here? What’s the timeline? Biden steps down today, what happens next?
AOC is very clear in her comments that there is no plan, that no one has been able to answer her questions in private, and that behind closed doors the only plan is “Biden should step down.” That’s not a plan. That’s a disaster waiting to happen.
America is a racist and sexist country, so this is not surprising at all. If democracy is under attack, why would you take someone who will be a liability? People have to be realistic about her chances.
@Oh Come On, you just voiced something disconcerting: that people are hoping for a contested primary to pick a Biden replacement.
It’s concerning because (in addition to the anti-Black racism you identify as to why they want a primary), if people genuinely think they will have a say in the replacement via a democratic method like a primary, they are sorely incorrect.
There will be no second primary – we’re out of time. Candidates would need to jump through all the official legal requirements of declaring candidacy, primary ballots would need to be printed, distributed, collected and counted; voting logistics would need to be arranged (locations, poll workers, ballot counters, etc. would all need to be secured); millions of dollars would be poured into this project, and at whose expense? And it would need to be done with plenty of time to get the winner’s name on the actual Nov. election ballots printed before states start mailing them as early as the start of October, etc.
(Not to mention the winner still has to, you know, actually campaign and whatnot.)
If we oust Biden, the party elites are exactly who will choose a new candidate for us – we won’t have a democratic election to decide, we will just have to hope that whoever they pick can represent us better than Biden, and can represent EVERYONE well enough to appeal to voters across the country.
Who is that person? No one clear yet, and Democrats at large are NOT the ones who will choose our candidate if we continue this coup against Biden. It will be an election just for the elite, even if regular non-elite Dems agree Biden has to go.
Anyone who thinks they will have a say in choosing his replacement is delusional.
So how anyone can think this is how democracy should work is also a mystery.
Harris replacing Biden at the top of the ticket should be the scenario but the people publicly pushing Biden to step down either 1) have no plan and no replacement candidate to offer or 2) have said “let’s look at Harris but also this person, and that person, and that person, and that person over there!” That’s one of the big issues with me. The loudest voices aren’t saying it should be Harris, which tells me they don’t want it to be Harris.
Yep, none of the big “influencers” like Rob Reiner, Stephen King, George Clooney, or Jon Stewart are saying anything other than Biden is too old and should get out of the way. Not ONE of them has said let Kamala Harris take the rightful stand-in position of a vice-president if Biden bows out. They have all shown what pasty entitled white boys they actually are, not too far removed in practice from the patriarchal misogynistic racists in the current GOP. It’s nauseating. These backstabbing Dems are showing their asses, and are a perfect example of why so many Americans mistrust “the liberal elite.”
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@Agnes finally someone gets it.
When I said something similar here weeks ago as a black British female voter I was vilified and accused of enabling fascism bc I was disillusioned by Labours treatment of black Political candidates and voters, who were being pushed out and silenced.
I have predicted all along that no Biden also = No Harris and guess what the electorate mainly will not care because black women are seen as disposable in every corner of society.
What we are seeing here is typical organisational behaviour. Companies do this ALL the time when they pass over black women for coveted roles and promotions that they are rightly entitled to via their skills, qualifications and experience. Kamala is uniquely one of the most qualified candidates the Democratic Party have, so much so that they asked her to drop out of the 2020 race to become Biden’s VP. She absolutely took him apart in those debates and then saved his bacon in the 2020 election.
If the Democratic Party drop her now there will be hell to pay with black voters for decades to come.
I am also glad that we are finally seeing the veneer of respectability fall away from false prophets like Clooney, Damon, King et al who are as someone put it so eloquently above frat boys.
Finally at this point in time, if the democrats lose the election, it will be because of the fall out of this mess. The very idea that the goal is being left so wide open for Trump at a time when the Supreme Court is in such danger is just a shocker to me.
There is simply no debate – Kamala IS the best candidate and the ONLY choice. But America refused to bank on a woman and especially a black woman.
Agnes and Flower, I totally agree. What the wealthy (I’ve decided they are NOT elite) is doing is damaging the democratic party. Not only are you both right on the money, but NO ONE is addressing the angry voters. Adam Schiff is in trouble. People are saying they will do a write in ballot. I’m not kidding you. People need to start paying attention. We need the House and Senate. What are all of the communities who are supporting Biden going to do? There are lots of calls to reps, senators and the whitehouse going on right now by voters who are saying stick with Biden.
There’s nothing wrong with Biden’s mind. The only thing I can see is he’s smarter than these wealthy idiots. This chaos was started by the mainstream media in coordination with the Republicans. The wealthy Dems just jump on the bandwagon. The only way we lose this election is if the wealthy are ALLOWED to buy a nominee. If they do, don’t expect it to be the last time they do so.
It is very simple. The media wants Trump back, so they can print money again. So, the bad articles are written, which spooked the wealthy donors and they realized if Biden has to leave due to health problems, we are gonna get a WOC as President, that they don’t want. It is cool to make her VP to get black people’s votes, but they definitely don’t want her in the oval office. You can read them saying she can compete with other candidates when Biden backs off from reelection. Why doesn’t the VP get the main ticket automatically? Stop listening to the media and wealthy men crying. If something happens to Biden during the job, VP gets the job. That is the whole reason she is there.
THIS. One thousand times this.
@ Sevenblue I think you misunderstand where my question was coming from. I *want* Harris to replace Biden as the nominee, because she’s great at setting out the case against Trump, she represents the country and the future instead of two geriatric men taking this election way too personally, and (election law experts say) she can have the $91 million or so that Biden already raised, she’s already been vetted on the national stage and doesn’t have skeletons in the closet that could fall out and surprise us, and it would be a slap in the face to Black voters who elected Biden and Harris, now that Biden seems not up to the job of campaigning for re-election, to try to bypass Harris for some Midwestern or California white candidate. That would be seriously disappointing to me, as a Black voter.
What I hope for is Biden is persuaded to resign, and when he steps down, he endorses Harris to carry the torch. I suspect the high-profile Dems would go along with it and would not oppose her, bc we don’t have a lot of time, it makes a lot of sense for her to take over with a minimum of intraparty conflict, and if she loses, these other candidates (Whitmer, Shapiro, Newsom etc) can be her VP or, if she loses, run in 2028. Assuming there’s a free and fair election in 2028 🫣
@Oh come on. , Read what the wealthy donors are planning. They don’t want Harris. They want Biden to step down and other people to compete for the ticket. They said Kamala is free to compete too. If Biden steps down, they are gonna get rid of Harris too. Biden is the first target. If Biden gets incapacitated in the office, Harris is already gonna get the job. So, what is the problem?
This is absolutely not true. Unless your definition of media = Rupert Murdoch, who does in fact want Trump back because he’s good for ratings. I know plenty of reporters who are, like many others, horrified at the thought of him coming back into office and doing even more to destroy our democracy.
@Amy Yes, and the Obama “podbros” WANT Kamala to be the nominee if Biden resigns.
No, I am not talking about Murdoch, we already know that. The mainstream media also wants Trump back. I am not talking about reporters doing their jobs, the wealth owners of the media. They were the ones printing money during Trump years with investigations, live senate hearings. Everyone was watching the news, buying the books. Now, we have grownups in the office, they are losing money. They said that multiple times during Trump years.
@Amy: The reporters are different from the ones calling the shots — the execs in the C-suites who only care about their bottom lines.
As for reporters, the Maggie Habermans of journalism will be OK no matter what, but they’re definitely looking to sell more books.
The Obama Pod Bros have mocked Kamala Harris plenty of times before. The moment the media pounces because of a gaffe or takes something she says out of context, they will capitulate to the negative coverage. They are spineless opportunists, bar none.
Exactly. Why should we trust any poll that a news organization reports when that news organization is the one that ran it. Biden has accomplished more in the first 3 years than any president since FDR. Some of it was even bi-partisan. He has avoided all of the threats of government shutdowns and refusal to extend the debt ceiling.
He has appointed over 200 federal judges about 2/3 of them are women, black, asian, hispanic or other minority ethnic group.
If we force him out we will lose. The Dems will create Chaos, look weak, disorganized. Remember the clown show when the republicans kicked Kevin M out and then couldn’t agree on a new speaker. We will look 10 times worse trying to pick a new nominee.
Thank you.
Biden already said this morning he’s not stepping down. I wish that everyone would go touch some freaking grass.
This has never been done before and anyone thinking that 14 million people who voted are just going to happily vote for whoever steps in are insane. It be one thing if Biden died right now. But trying to force him out after we all voted shows that Democrats and some of the posters here are just the GOP who don’t shout the N word out loud.
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Agreed 💯 a lot of journalist made money on the Trump presidency.
sevenblue, got it in one. I wish more people could this entire situation as clearly.
Love her but she’s wrong here.
Big takeaway from the clown show that is the RNC: They are all REALLY f*cking scared of Kamala.
Anyway, only Biden can decide–no one can force him to step down and if he does, I hope the folks who support him will also support his decision to put down ballot elections and the future of this country ahead of himself. I know I will.
Same, @ Kitten. If he doesn’t step down ofc I’ll vote, donate and support him, but if he steps down to let someone more able—Kamala—to lead the campaign, I will be grateful that he sacrificed his own ambitions to save our flawed and imperiled democracy.
I’ve voted in every single election since I was 18 years old. If Biden and Kamala are replaced this very well maybe the first national election I sit out.
Vote blue, no matter who! This is not the time to sit out. You will just place Trump in power and support fascism.
Midnight@theOasis, you’re not the only voter who is saying this. The wealthy don’t care about the voters, evidently, but the politicians do. Please call/email your people in D.C. and the whitehouse and let them know how you feel. That’s what so many are doing–let’s FLOOD them with our calls/emails. The people up for reelection may need to start worrying about their voters.
It sounds like you didn’t watch the video. I highly encourage you to do so.
Who would have thought that we see the day when the centrists would be supporting Bernie and AOC? It would be great if they actually listened to them on other issues too.
LOL. True
This isn’t so much conspiracy by the media elites and those democracy-loving Americans who don’t want to see a dictator take over and destroy our country. There are a LOT of Democracts, independents and Never-Trumpers who have serious concerns about Biden’s ability to win because of his advanced age. Concerns about this aren’t new. But they came into pretty stark relief during that debate. Since then, polling across the country shows his support crumbling because people genuinely (and rightly) worry about his ability to do the job.
There’s no question (for me anyway), that Biden has been a good president and he’s a decent man. But he cannot protect the country from Trump again. It’s not clear that Kamala will be able to beat Trump either, but I think we have a fighting shot of keeping him out of the WH again if she’s atop the ticket.
The issue is the perpetual low-information voter or those who get conned into thinking Trumps not going to do what all indications say he will do. The contrast is so clear how can you possibly waffle between the two candidates?
There has been a pause of sorts after the “incident’. Maybe some of these bed-wetters will grow a spine and educate and talk about what Trump, Vance and his cronies have said – I mean there’s plenty there.
Hahaha. Sure. This country is going to vote for a Black woman after the articles claiming that Biden is in decline and she helped hide it?
I can see the articles now:
When did Kamala Harris Know?
Can We Trust Kamala Harris
Kamala Harris Was Just a DEI Hire
And it goes on.
And I love how no one cares that Black voters are threatening to riot over this shit.
I’m with you, they will vilify V.P. Harris the second Biden steps down. She will be accused of being a co-conspirator in attempting to conceal Biden’s ill-health, and that will be all she wrote.
I have watched Biden’s speeches since the debate, he is not in cognitive decline.
@Amy completely agree with your points. I’ve been a lifelong Dem and what I’m seeing currently by Biden supporters compares to sharply to behaviors I don’t necessarily agree with. There is a contingent of Dems who have not been thrilled about a Biden re-run and have stated those concerns for least a year or more. I recall it being a fever pitch back this Spring. I was hoping the Primaries would be a great way to see some other Dem candidates but instead it feels like the whole party just decided nope it’s Biden and shut everything down. These concerns didn’t go away just because only Biden was offered on a platter since April/May because he’s owed this. I believe the debate just brought a lot of various concerns to the forefront again. We can not as a party progress if we keep shutting out other opinions and realistically address why we have these concerns. I don’t like this “it’s just racism” dichotomy either. I’m a Black woman from the south in a very purple state, the Biden/Harris ticket had these same concerns last time and we were told that they would be addressed. Instead, here we are 4 years later and once again when concerns are raised we are told to just shut up and vote. That irks me. I’ve been hearing this party tell my community to just shut up and vote my whole life. When are we going to directly address them in a productive way?
Imara219, stated concerns for a year or more? Then why wasn’t there someone on the Primary ballot? Seriously, it’s easy to say that now, but where is the conviction behind those feelings. You don’t wait until it’s almost too late to get names on the ballot.
I listed to AOC’s video all of the way through. Yes, she’s a bit wordy, but the fact that she was so carefully choosing her words made a big impact on me. She wanted the voters to have the facts. If you haven’t seen it, I urge you to do so.
This is all stressing me out so badly, it feels disastrous to swap candidates at this point, I don’t like big donors feeling they can override the voters (naive, I know) and I hate the idea of an administration that has accomplished a lot in difficult times being pushed out.
I just keep reminding myself I have no control over the outcome here, and whatever happens, I’m voting Democrat as always, even if I’m royally pissed off. If Biden stays, I will vote, donate, and volunteer. If it’s someone else, I will vote, donate, and volunteer. The whole situation sucks, but the alternative of trump winning is a true horror story.
This is how I feel, too, lucy2. Although it comes with a side of anger that the democratic elite/media waited until AFTER we all voted to have this discussion. It’s too late now to switch and shows an unappealing lack of courage to cut and run after one bad night. It’s OK to be afraid, obviously — I’m terrified! — but making decisions based in fear leads to disaster.
Anyway, I was off the grid when the debate happened, and I feel like we came back on the grid into an alternate universe!
I’m exhausted and there’s no escape from it. Even here, where I come just to get my mind off things for just a second, I can’t get away from it.
I feel it’s silly because the time to stop this was months ago. Like it all got drawn out to now for what. I feel like that Cardi B meme “BUT WHAT WAS THE REASON!” up in here.
What I want is for them to switch roles. A President Harris and VP Biden to be the foreign policy expert the way he was with Obama and showing him some respect as a decent man who has dedicated his life to public service. I was fighting the push to replace him because as he says he beat trump before and any other democrat doesn’t have to time to make a case to the public so it would be a loss to trump anyway. I say keep him on the ticket that way.
This is the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#:~:text=It%20clarifies%20that%20the%20vice,vice%20president%20can%20be%20filled. If Biden resignation from the presidency, Harris becomes 47. But her VP would have to approved but both Houses of Congress.
No one (serious) is talking about invoking the 25th Amendment. Clearly, Biden is still capable of doing the job of being President, and imo he’s been doing a pretty good job (except on Gaza). What’s in question is his ability to campaign vigorously and win in November.
OMG!
I need people to BFFR right now. Biden is NOT in cognitive decline. He’s released his medical report. He held a NATO summit and an hour long press conference.
The man is old, but everyone knew that going into the primary when 14 MILLION people voted for him to be the nominee.
This coup, is about Kamala Harris becoming president. Nothing else.
Donald Trump basically became unglued during his nomination acceptance speech and the peanut gallery is still banging on about a debate that has no bearing on the race.
Joe Biden & Kamala Harris received 81 million votes compared to 76 million for Trump in 2020. Has Trump done ANYTHING to expand his base? Did Trump appoint the three Supreme Court judges that stripped women of body autonomy in 1/3 of our states? I can’t see how that will increase his vote share. Did Trump incite an insurrection? Whelp, that won’t woo independents and undecideds to his side.
Well said!
Preach!!
Applause!
And he is turning off independents and undecideds everytime he talks!
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Fourteen million Americans voted Joe Biden as the nominee. Our votes are being tossed out by billionaires and party operatives. If you support President Biden, email the White House and urge him to stay in the race. Voters should decide elections, period. This sets a horrible precedent. You want to talk about demotivated voters? We are being told our vote doesn’t count.
Reality is this:
The donors that are pushing this unnamed unicorn candidate three weeks before the convention have no mechanism for putting this candidate onto the ballot OR building out their campaign infrastructure from scratch.
Federal campaign law means that ONLY Biden or Harris can use their money and their infrastructure. Additionally, who is volunteering and working for the unicorn? The most reliable volunteers for the democrats are Black women, which is why they are the backbone of the party.
Who is canvassing, door knocking, GOTV, arranging. Sunday early voting caravans from churches and retirement homes when you piss off the base and they do not come out to do the work of making the campaign run?
Without Kamala on the ticket, the campaigning isn’t happening. AND not for nothing, the loyalty isn’t limited to Kamala, but it also extends to Biden.
Which is why 1400 Black Women, elected officials and party members let it be known that THEIR ticket was Biden/Harris, not the unicorn.
These multimillionaire donors will be okay. The fascists won’t come for them – they will come for Black folks, Brown folks, Disabled folks, LGBTQIA+ folks, Immigrants, and the like. Fascism is coming for the people that can’t bet everything on a unicorn.
Voters know Biden, they trust Biden, the votes for Biden by a huge margin in 2020 and are prepared to vote for him again by an even bigger margin if the donors and the quid-pro-quo politicians get the f*** out the way
I like that term, “unicorn candidate.” The only positive for Biden-Harris I can see in all this whispery mess is that it is getting Democrat and anti-Trump independent voters riled up and therefore more likely to actually VOTE. If voters vote, Trump doesn’t stand a chance. It’s indifference that will give him a win.
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@lola love your comment. I did listen to the entire video and I will try to state what she says. 1) It’s too late for this, the election actually starts in September, not November (early voting etc.) IMW: this same group that endorsed Biden last year, a couple of months ago are now in the 11th hour wanting to replace Biden. 2) States like Ohio & many others, the Republican party have already said they will contest the election if Biden’s name is taken off & this would be decided by CLARENCE THOMAS!!. 3) The Biden donations can ONLY go to VP Harris (not to say it will never go to the other candidate but when?) 4) When AOC is in the meetings where this is being discussed, the legislators are being pressured by their DONORS, not their constituents/voters. 5) When they are talking about Biden stepping down, there is never a plan (his replacement?, contested Democratic National Convention?) 6) From her standpoint and the legal world, how does this work? (these states (Ohio) that already have Biden/Harris on the ballot, but there is no discussion as to how this legally works? 7) The polls are not always accurate, as we’ve seen in the past. 8) She stresses SEVERAL TIMES that this group asking for Biden to step down have NO INTENTION whatsoever for VP Kamala Harris to replace Biden!!! She stresses this several times throughout the video. AOC did such a great job in explaining what is really going on behind the scenes. I apologize for not being eloquent 🙂
Thank you for this recap!
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this summary, @Lolikes, I was hoping someone would do this.
I’m not sure AOC is right that donors are the only ones who are about Biden’s condition/ability—I feel like a lot of voters are concerned about this, too. I am. (And I’m Black and a bit tired of the Biden camp saying it’d be an insult to voters like me if he were to step aside—we saw him at the SotU and thought he was fine, we didn’t get to see how bad his bad days really were.)
I believe AOC when she says there’s no plan—this disappoints me because it seems like the best course of action is for Biden to serve out the rest of his term while Kamala takes the top of the ticket and runs to be elected President in November.
I don’t sympathize with people who think we can somehow have a contest to pick another candidate than Harris and then heal the inevitable rifts in the party before (as AOC says) the campaign kicks into high gear in November. There’s no white knight. It’s Biden or Kamala, I don’t see another practical option.
There is no way for them to do that this late. I wish everyone would let this crap go. The media lied to everyone. George Clooney lied. It’s not happening.
And white people in this country are not voting for Kamala at the top of the ticket right now. And it’s beyond laughable anyone thinks the media won’t come at Kamala hard and slam her every five seconds. Debates don’t matter. People keep acting like they do. They don’t. People like to pretend because Kennedy beat Nixon and how “hot” he was that’s what won and not his father rigging the election with the freaking mob.
You nailed it. 🎯❤️
Republicans are already lining up lawyers to keep any new candidates off the ballots in states.
My main takeaway from what AOC said is that Dems are saying their DONORS don’t want Biden, not that their VOTERS don’t want Biden. Secondly, the Republicans are ready with legal challenges if the ticket changes. Ballots will be made and mailed in September.
Yea, Biden is old. But everyone knew that and the time to have him step down was months ago. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.
I appreciate the works and words that Bernie and AOC are putting out there.
The Repugs terrify me but the Dems – my registered party – are disturbing in their lack of insight, foresight and downright gumption. In some ways it seems as if they care as little for the Well Being of All as the Repugs do.
I’m voting for Joe
I encourage everyone to watch the full video. She makes a lot of good points about what the risks are to making changes at this stage of the game. It opens the nomination up to legal and financial challenges, and that she sees a lack of thought from the individuals who would be responsible for executing the logistics of an open convention. She’s hearing her colleagues talk about concerns about their donors, not concerns coming from the voters. Ultimately, she is saying “there is no safe option,” but a change would be very risky at this point.
If ever a perfect storm was generated that would end up losing the loyalty of the varied and vast grassroots Democrats — this is it. Shows how out of touch the ‘leadership’ of the DNC are and, other than Nancy Pelosi, it seems most of the naysayers are the usual Old White Men, scared of dying themselves and projecting … Polls are pretty worthless and have been very non-predictive for the past election cycles — consistently — so WTH is anyone paying attention to them to the extent that they are? The Dump Bideners have been frightened by the media and have developed a plan to make themselves feel better that will only benefit DJT and Putin. Et al.
It’s not a coup attempt. Words have meaning. Your hyoerbole is no different from theirs. You are part of the problem.
I used the word coup intentionally.
I used it specifically because of its meaning.
How else should we describe a collection of unelected donors trying to use financial pressure to make the current president AND vice-president set aside their campaign weeks before the convention for a hand-picked slate of candidates after 14 million voters have already cast their votes?
There is nothing democratic about disenfranchising 14 million voters to force their candidate on the electorate.
What would you have this form of rank betrayal and abandonment of core-democratic principles referred to?
This move to supplant Biden AND Harris is nasty work. It’s disgusting & I do not care at all if the people that support this whisper-coup feel “some sort of way” when their horrendous behavior is spotlighted and called exactly what it is.
A coup.
Just because this one doesn’t involve people smearing feces on the walls of the capitol building doesn’t make this any less destabilizing to the foundations of our democracy.
A coup is a coup.
Thank you, Lola! I have been voting since 1980. My vote was stolen from me when my candidate conceded before the polls closed, and I was still waiting to vote. When the Supreme Court chose George Bush, I felt the election was stolen from all of us. For those of us who chose Joe Biden, in the primaries, leveraging him out now is most certainly a coup.
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Love you guys, but this is way off. Literally every Democrat I know wants Biden off the ticket, because his debate performance was that f*cking terrifying. This is not a second coup attempt. It’s a desperate attempt to replace Biden with a more able candidate who might actually be able to win.
And every Democrat I know thinks this is tiresome at this point and disastrous if you all get what you want. Its not even about trump winning again. It would have significant electoral ramifications for decades.
It is most definitely a coup attempt. And its a dumb coup attempt when in less than three months before the election, you don’t even have a replacement candidate. And whose record will that person run on? How will we know how they stand on important issues? How will they be vetted in time? What if something in their background comes up before the election, then what? And for what its worth literally every Democrat I know is saying stay the course.
I am saying what I’m saying as a fully paid member of my local Democratic club.
I said what I said as someone that has participated in GOTV activities for presidential & mid-term elections.
I said what I said as someone that KNOWS Democratic delegates & has already reached out to them to get their take on the Whisper Coup.
I don’t give a flying if the terminology that I’m using makes you uncomfortable. It should. Disenfranchising millions of voters is another form of voter suppression, and the casual nature you folks are discussing this is alarming.
Biden is old, the debate was garbage he admitted it. You know what wasn’t garbage his performance before NATO members, days later. You do not throw out the architects of the most successful presidential administration in a generation bc of one off night.
Trump is on stage talking about his friendship with Hannibal Lecter and the danger of electric boats and sharks, he’s referring to Nancy Pelosi as Nikki Haley and you have your panties in a twist bc Biden, a man that has a stutter & makes gaffes, and has done for fifty years, has a stutter and made some verbal gaffes.
You are clearly coming from a place of privilege where the inherent risk of the unicorn candidate swap will not impact you. I WILL be impacted & am not willing to risk my well being or the well being of my loved ones by supporting an ageist, racist plans by wealthy donors that LITERALLY have no skin in the game. If their unicorn candidate plan hands the presidency to Trump, they will be okay. George Clooney lives in France and has hundreds of millions of dollars.
I will not be able the weather another Trump administration.
This move against Biden & Harris is anti-democratic. It undermines the tenets of democracy and yes, it is a f***ing coup.
🎯❤️
Bravo to everything you said, Lola! I aso don’t think my family could weather another Trump presidency. He’s coming for the special education programs my son desperately needs. I’d take any opportunity to leave the country in a heartbeat. The wealthy donors behind this can leave at will and I bitterly resent that.
I think people need to accept that different people have different priorities and that there is a very clear dividing line in the people that are being vocal for him to step down and the people who are not. I know people who fall on both sides of the equation actually they want him to step down because they don’t think that he can be Trump but they also worry about the incredibly racist country that we live in and misogynistic country that we live in and what they would do to Kamala. I also have a lot of friends and family who are like this is stupid and we are our own worst enemies. It’s now degraded to infighting within the party and supporter’s about who’s showing the appropriate amount of loyalty further dividing us. I had already taken a break from TPM and political wire because I was getting sick of this and I might have to take a breather here too. Whether is Joe or whether it’s Kamala ( it’s not going to be a third person be serious) we need to get out and vote, volunteer to drive people to vote, and talk to everyone we know about voting straight blue in November. that’s what our focus needs to be solely on it’s not a game. Everything else is a nonsense distraction right now. We need to win all three branches back and we need to support the ticket.
> incredibly racist country that we live in and misogynistic country that we live in and what they would do to Kamala.
Actually I think if anyone can handle it without taking it personally, Kamala can. She is an incredibly smart, strategic, tactical politician and lawyer. She will understand that when Trump has his inevitable racist, misogynistic meltdown, it’ll be an opportunity for jiujitsu—he’ll scare away suburban white women and Trump-curious Black men.
It won’t be a pleasant or safe experience for Kamala, but I have great confidence she can handle the unfair attacks without taking them personally (a mistake Biden is currently making).
> Whether is Joe or whether it’s Kamala ( it’s not going to be a third person be serious) we need to get out and vote
Truest truth ever.
Sh*t or get off the pot, democrats. Simple as that 🤷♀️
I didn’t vote for Biden because of his debating skills. I voted for Biden because he’s able to assemble and lead a team of people who can accomplish goals in areas that I value.
I have some serious concerns about Biden — that were somewhat allayed when he chose Harris as his VP. At this point in the game, I still see Biden-Harris as my best choice. They have governed effectively way beyond my expectations.
Trump and Bannon promised chaos. Quite a lot of mainstream media is supporting Trump’s chaos in subtle and not so subtle ways.
Biden has been clearly impacted by his age. Trump has been clearly impacted by age, hatred, and quite a few debilitating signs of deterioration. We’ve got what we’ve got. We can’t let chaos win.
I know it’s late and fewer people will read this, but I can’t help but think about my voting-age kids and their disillusionment with the Democratic Party. My daughter has said to me numerous times, “All they ever do is tell us to vote for them so we can get what we want.” She feels like they are patting her on the head and telling her to vote for them and don’t worry. Meanwhile, she’s seeing her rights stripped away and her friends threatened. I’ve tried to explain that they need more of us to vote and vote down ballot, that even if we don’t like everything Biden is doing, his team is our best chance, etc.
But when the party pulls crap like this, it demotivates young people to vote. Here they’ve voted in the primaries, and now their vote is being nullified by party leaders. That’s not how you get young people engaged in democracy.
@salmonpuff I agree! I have a politically active 26 y/o (Democrat BTW) son and we discuss daily his peers’ apathy, frustration etc with the Democrat party (this was way before the debate.). IMO this “loosey goosey” attitude of the Not-Riding w/Biden group is not cool to the young gens. I absolutely can’t stand the repug party but I do admire the way they stand behind their candidate, no matter what. They play the long game and accept repulsive candidates that will get them what they want (supreme court judges, immigration ban, abortion ban etc.) The repugs also welcome the young and will mentor and school them (think of the Young Republicans. I searched high and low for the Young Democrats in my state which did not exist.) Maybe if we the democrats had listened to the young gens earlier about their concerns (the Squad voicing Palestinian issues, college debt, the older age of Democrat statesmen etc) we could have hedged some of the problems we’re facing now. Unfortunately at this late date, to bring up these issues is not a good look. This is portraying to the younger generation that the Democrat Party is insecure, unorganized, disloyal, not in touch with the voters and ready to throw “you under the bus” at the drop of a hat. And the Democrat Party has been unable to convey the sinister message (Project 2025) to the young gens and the general public that this may be the last election ever if we don’t get out and vote for Biden/Harris AND vote BLUE down the ticket.
Also in my recap of AOC’s video, she also mentioned how the unions need months & months in their preparation in supporting a candidate. So a new candidate would not have union support. IMO talk about Biden having dementia or whatever, I think the Not-Riding w/Biden group is having some sort of dementia?? Vote Blue and embrace the Riding with Biden Era.
OMG the way I have been screaming this. The Dems should have been mentoring their next candidate when Obama took office in 2009. I always feel like I am being abused by supporting the losing team who refuses to get their act together and who often feel like they are working hard to lose. To what end? I have no idea. I hate politics, otherwise I’d be involved but I am a helluva strategist and this has been a shitshow since Gore ran in 2000.
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You snooze, you lose Biden, thanks you did great and now is the time to prevent another RBG disaster. A personal hero of mine, remember the videos of her doing exercises to prove how fit she was, yeah that did not work out well, a total sh*tshow on the SC. Two-thirds of Democrats want a retirement and independents stats are not favorable.
You snooze, we lost. Harris basically ghosted the country the past four years, speeches not good, no charisma. Harris’ team would say often we are working on improving, which came to nothing. I saw black female Georgia voters saying ‘we never see her, we don’t know her’. I care about winning and ensuring a better path to preserving my rights much more than I care about seeing myself represented in the top job.
Newson/Whitmer 2024.
Please tell me what previous Vice-presidents have done during the administration? What was Mike Pence’s remit? Dan Quayle? Al Gore? What did they do on a day to day basis?
Kamala Harris has been one of the most hands-on vice presidents ever. She has literally been around the globe, working with countries in South and Central America to address the migrant crisis. She was instrumental in working with allies to build support amongst NATO and other European allies in support of Ukraine.
The same media that has been urging democrats to dump BOTH Biden & Harris was also not actively covering all of the work that VP Harris has done domestically and internationally. Big surprise.
Anyhoo, for your information, since it seems you have an inability to google, recently Kamala Harris has been going around the country to discuss women’s body autonomy and the danger of rolling back Roe v Wade.
Just because Harris doesn’t get press coverage, it doesn’t mean she’s been ghosting the country.
I don’t understand this meltdown specifically as it pertains to Biden. Ronald Reagan was 80 years old when it took office in 1981 and 84 in 1985. I don’t believe that anyone that age should be the president and we should have term and age limits for office. If most Americans get to retire at 67 so should our public leaders. With that said, this is asinine. We are four months away from the Election. Having Biden stepped down now is stupid and it confirms to me that the Dems don’t want to win. Saying Biden should step down is the Dems literally handing the election to Trump and THAT angers me more. I do not want to vote for Biden but I am riding hard for him this year because it makes sense. Anything else is a non-discussion. Instead, the Democratic Party need to find a platform and narrative that pushes them forward because the one thing the Republican Party has been good at is sticking to their narrative. Good on AOC for standing for Biden.
That is false, Reagan was 69 and 73 years old when elected. In addition, members of the press noted alarming cognitive issues in his second term, which they didn’t report on out of respect. He likely had Alzheimers while in office and he was a terrible president.
I meant to say 70. and 74. My brain miscalculated. Thanks! He was definitely in decline and I don’t think anyone is denying that both Trump AND Biden are too old. But to do it at this late stage is insane.
Lifelong dem and Biden supporter, but he does not present as capable of serving another 4 years and therefore should not be running.
Biden is LITERALLY doing the job right now – and as for whether or not he can complete the next four years, frankly, it doesn’t matter. That’s why we have the Vice President.
That’s literally the entire point of the position.
In addition, it’s moronic to throw away the political power of incumbency because there is a chance he might not complete his term.
The 14 million democrats that have already voted in the Democratic primaries priced both Biden’s age and ability to complete his term in, and have decided having Kamala Harris as VP is security enough for them.
Thats how democracy works. Additionally, if voters wanted to vote for something different Dean Phillips was right there and he we see how attractive his candidacy was to the rank-and-file voters of the party.
The time to bring this up was two years ago not three months before the election. What part of the Republicans will legally challenge this do you people not understand? Even if they are not successful, which given the court make up is a crap shoot, look at how much time will have been wasted. And guess what, while we are having this stupid argument, no one is discussing Project 2025 or Agenda 47.
I don’t agree. On the spectrum of if/when, the VP position should fall very squarely on the if side, as supposed to a distinct possibility. When Biden first ran in 2020, he said he would be a one-term president. His then instincts were correct. He backtracked and Trump inexplicably has real chance of winning. My strong belief is that another candidate could energize, win and effectively lead. I will vote for Biden if it comes to that, but I fear not enough will.
For anyone who can’t watch the video, here’s a breakdown of AOC’s points:
https://twitter.com/petersterne/status/1814151594012754255?s=61&t=9TaAsfwrl1H_hiFD2SEi3A
She makes excellent points. People should heed her.
That link is not really giving me anything but Peter Sterne and one statement. If I need to create a Xwitter account to see anything else, I’ll skip it tho.
AOC is the GOAT. The Democratic elites are losing the election. They are doing a better job discrediting President Biden than Trump.
AOC is very astute about polical reality. We need to come together: display a united front, show people our valueķs values federal
Fire’s”publishing” a story about tm
Cry harder and die mad Genocidal Gina’s lol