I wasn’t looking forward to last night’s VP debate. I like Gov. Tim Walz a lot – he’s smart, he comes across as a tremendously decent man, and he has a happy-warrior vibe. But JD Vance is a slick creep who lies constantly and he’s “good” at debating, if no one cares about all of the lies and sudden flip-flops. Well, Walz did much better than I expected, but so did Vance. Vance dialed down his creepiness as much as he could – it came spilling out a few times – while Walz at times looked befuddled by all of the lies Vance was telling.
There was very little fact-checking, although there was one moment where Vance was fact-checked in real time about his blatant racist lies about Haitian immigrants in Ohio (his state) and moderator Margaret Brennan stated, “And just to clarify for our viewers, Springfield, Ohio does have a large number of Haitian migrants who have legal status, temporary protected status.” Vance threw a tantrum about that, spitting: “Margaret, the rules were that you were not going to fact check and since you’re fact-checking me, I think it’s important to say what’s actually going on.” Seconds later, the moderators cut both Vance and Walz’s mics.
My favorite part of the debate was Gov. Walz’s whole answer on abortion rights and how women should be trusted to make their own reproductive decisions and people should mind their own business. Vance once again lied and flip-flopped about where he stands on abortion, suddenly backing away from his repeated statements about how there should be a federal abortion ban.
Another great moment for Walz happened towards the end of the debate, during the conversation about January 6th and whether both candidates would accept the results of the election. Vance tried to hem and haw and talk around the fact that Trump is still spreading lies about the 2020 election, and that Trump still cannot admit that he lost. Walz looked at Vance and said: “He is still saying he didn’t lose the election. Did he lose the 2020 election?” Vance replied greasily: “Tim, I’m focused on the future.” Walz: “That is a damning non-answer.” Walz also brought up why Mike Pence isn’t Trump’s running mate, and then said: “America, I think you’ve got a really clear choice… of who’s going to honor that democracy and who’s going to honor Donald Trump.”
The one bad moment for Walz was when he was caught out on a lie/tall-tale about being in China in 1989 during Tiananmen Square. Walz should have just said, “I misspoke, I was in China that summer, but not at the same time.” He had a hard time diffusing that or admitting that.
On January 6, Mike Pence had the integrity to do his constitutional duty. That’s why he’s not on this stage tonight. pic.twitter.com/rjzql2tVaQ
— Tim Walz (@Tim_Walz) October 2, 2024
Gov. @Tim_Walz on abortion: "This is about health care. In Minnesota we are ranked first in health care for a reason. We trust women. We trust doctors." pic.twitter.com/3YZpr6jrbz
— CSPAN (@cspan) October 2, 2024
Photos courtesy of YouTube.
Coach Veep was nervous in the beginning and the summer in China was shaky but he killed it overall.
Not slick or arrogant like Vance was. He was thoughtful, concerned and compassionate. Not only on abortion and Jan. 6th but his answers about immigration too. Lest we forget that he wanted to make sure folks were able to go watch Dancing With the Stars.
He’s going to be a great Veep.
Honestly, anyone who thinks misremembering dates from almost 40 yrs ago about a historical event that has no bearing on current events is somehow a “gotcha” moment or worse than intentionally creating and perpetuating lies that incite violence against people who have done nothing wrong, needs to prioritize some introspection.
100%.
He spoke like a competent government executive. He is after all a Governor. He explained immigration, housing, child subsidies in real people terms. While Walz explained, Vance was steaming through his smile. Vance finally went with “if you can not beat them, join them.” Vance started to make nice! What is so disingenuous is the media saying Walz was shaky, blah, blah, blah. Wrong! Walz was shaky and likely terrified the first 1-3 or 15 minutes. Walz then fell into his Governor persona. Notice how he related how some policies worked in his state and the underlying reasons the items worked. Walz also called out Vance on Trump’s attempt to roll back the Obama Care, preexisting illnesses, and John McCain’s Obama Care vote. Walz did a great job! Too bad we can not see the entire debate again to catch the things I pointed out.
No fact checking = Vance thought he’d get away with lying. Surprise!
Still don’t understand how anyone can support them. I have some ideas why, but it doesn’t matter. Terrible people exist, and they apparently flock together.
I can understand White men with unexamined lives supporting the GOP, I disagree with it entirely but it makes sense in a sense. It is the women, the Muslims and the Jewish People and the minorities who support Trump/Vance about whom I scratch my head. With Project 2025 they’ve made it clear that women would no longer have any rights to bodily autonomy across the country, or really any freedom at all as they’d slowly chip away at it, including the right to vote. But the minority and Muslim/Jewish voters who support Trump – do they really not grasp what the GOP plans to do with them if given the chance? Why do people vote for their own demise?!
If people did even a modicum of research on their own, they’d know repugs are backing off reproductive rights because they know it’s a losing issue for them. I mean, SCOTUS has declined to hear a case about reproductive health care this term, and they literally admitted they weren’t going to hear it because they don’t want to issue their opinion before the election. The only reason they would hesitate to issue before an election is because they know Trump’s conservative justices will all come down on the side of killing women, and that will be fresh in voters’ minds…
Aside from the irrationality of these folks, they’re not seeing what lies ahead because the GOP has been very calculating about the minorities they spotlight and point to as the example of “See? We DO care about you!” So the ones who slant right wing/fascist believe it because they see someone like them who wants what they want. Someone who is rewarded with money/power/etc. There’s also a ton of self loathing and need to belong. The GOP and Trump, especially, are expert carneys who know how to tailor to these people’s fears. It’s why they’re so ridiculous yet so frightening at the same time. That’s what I saw in Vance last night.
@Betsy–I don’t get the women either. It’s especially sad for me because I know a few. Of course, they were raised conservative, and for them it’s all about abortion, and omg–“the gays!” I think they’re in so deep and believe all the lies, so when that joke of a human denies project ’25, they believe him.
@ agirlandherdogs–thank you. I was not aware of this. It wouldn’t have changed my vote (BLUE!), but maybe for others.
MoonTheLoon– “a ton of self loathing and need to belong.” Yes, absolutely. I’d add, the need to be right as well.
Vance is a slick, much more polished liar than Trump, which is terrifying. I can’t anymore with the rewriting of history though. Like with healthcare – Trump tried to kill Obamacare and John McCain was the one who saved it, so hearing Vance say they will protect those with pre-existing conditions, ummmm no you tried to kill that 🙄
Walz was nervous in the beginning but found his footing. The last question about whether Trump lost in 2020 was the most damning to me. Vance can’t answer that honestly because if he did, he would anger Trump and the MAGA base. And – why did Trump need a new VP? His base wanted to hang the last one. Let that sink in.
It struck me that we have become so accustomed to Trump’s insanity that we have forgotten what a normal debate looks like. One that is respectful and civil. That doesn’t exist in a world with that sociopath Trump.
I agree, he seemed…smarmy, but very much like a practiced politician, which I don’t think is likely to be popular with the MAGA crowd. He’s supposed to be the midwestern outsider, and he sounded exactly like the tech bro he is with rehearsed answers and sidestepping questions.
Since Trump is sounding so doddering lately, it just made me think about how if they win, this guy is going to be running the show.
Also, you just know Trump is going to be mad that his VP tried to avoid a question about whether Trump won in 2020 – anything less than full-throated support is disloyalty. I also suspect he won’t like JD agreeing with Walz on anything, and talking about himself too much instead of talking about Trump. I suspect his obvious eagerness and slickness is not winning JD any friends in MAGAland.
The maga crowd is already all in for trump, I worry that Vance by comparison to him seemed sane, and almost laughingly moderate in some of his answers (he is an extremist and was lying), which I’m worried could sway some conservatives or these ridiculous “undecideds” that maybe didn’t want to vote for trump, or were just going to abstain from voting.
I felt the same as lucy2, that Vance appeared almost normal at times with his faux kindness, which might appeal to some people who worry about Trump’s insanity. His utter lack of a moral compass allows him to spout lies so smoothly that many people won’t fact check on their own.
He’s trained as a lawyer, even though he didn’t work as one for very long. It tracks that he does well in rehearsed debates. It was all hat, no cattle though – and him whining about being fact-checked was a laughable moment. He seems to be the type who needs someone to play off of in order to be a decent public speaker and he really wanted to get muddy last night, but Walz was just 100% a midwestern dad kind of guy and didn’t get ruffled enough to roll around in it with him. Vance seemed perplexed by it. Walz absolutely won that debate by not engaging in ridiculousness.
@Lucy2, I don’t believe at this point there are any “undecideds”, they just don’t want to admit out loud they’re voting for Trump.
My take is that JD Vance assumed another alternative personality and came across as a different person than the guy we see at rallies or interacting with actual people in real life. This (less natural?) set up fit him better than Tim Walz.
That said, you don’t base your vote on a VP. Tim Walz was authentically himself AND he has a great resume. He’s been in the National Guard, a teacher, helped coach football, and been a Representative and a longer than one-term Governor. JD Vance was briefly a lawyer, briefly a venture capitalist, and briefly in the Senate: what are his accomplishments beyond helping out Peter Thiel?
He has 100,000 Sephora points.
@Startup I’m HOLLERINGGGGGG
Oh yeah
Fantastic reply.
🤣🤣
@Startup 😂😂 When it first started, his tie matched his lips! I said, “Wow, his lipstick and time match.”
“JD Vance was … briefly in the Senate”
Very briefly.
Out of the past 45 votes, he apparently missed 45.
And when he talked about his experience as a politician, I rolled my eyes. He’s been a politician for half the time Madam VP has been VP.
They (Thiel, Ackman, Leo, Mellon, Musk et al) are speculating on a win, after which they’d invoke the 25th Amendment, resulting in them having a string puppet in the White House, willing to do their bidding — destroy healthcare, NOAA, EPA and FEMA, and Department of Education, among other things, tear NATO apart, revoke Obergefell, and kill women through neglect and disregard.
I don’t know if this was the Harris-Walz strategy, but all of JD’s answers just made me think about how eager he seems to be to get into the White house and implement all of these crazy 2025 ideas. Many people don’t believe that Trump would really implement those crazy right-wing proposals, but I’d bet they believe that JD will. And he seems very eager – maybe a little too eager?
Vance also lives in an alternate universe in which Kamala has been president for four years already. And Tim went along with it too willingly. It drove me crazy.
@Brassy Rebel
YES!! Did everyone miss their classes in school about the roles of our government?? The VP does make policy – that is Congress and the Senate. It’s enraging.
Maybe we should focus in on VPs being presidents then? In Vance’s alternative universe, Kamala Harris set the policy. Why not talk about how Pence set the policy during Trump’s presidency and how Vance will do this while the old guy golfs? 10 to one, Trump won’t love that!
Edit: especially the part where Pence said that Biden won the election.
I don’t think Vance is particularly slick. He’s just that obnoxious, arrogant ass on every high school debate team who thinks he’s much more clever than he is and depends on the ignorance of others to “win”. There’s a reason that even the idiotic MAGAts are generally put off by him and are voting for Trump very much IN SPITE OF Vance. In such a close election, his weirdness is a liability. Republicans need to add voters, and he’s not making any converts. Coach Veep, however, has the potential to do just that.
Y’all are better than I am. I can’t watch anything that has to do with listening to THAT side speak crap. And I certainly can’t watch interviews with undecideds. Questions are meaningless. All of it embarrasses and infuriates me. So I can’t watch. It sounds like I wouldn’t have been able to sleep had I watched lol.
Same here. I skipped the debate last night completely and I’m glad I did. It sounds like Walz did pretty well and Vance was Vance….I didn’t need to watch.
I’m the same way. My mental health can’t take it anymore
Apparently a CBS poll after the debate had Vance “win” by 1 point, BUT Walz’s popular vote went up by 13 points which is crazy. I know, polls are polls but still, that is big!
Vance will forever be the “B” lot car salesman in my opinion. And when he said that we shouldn’t suppress misinformation because it provides opportunity for healthy debate? Yeah comrade, we see you carrying the water for Putin. Tim Walz is great, at least I don’t feel like I have to hide my purse when I see him coming.
The used car salesman vibes were strong last night. So strong that I doubt even casual political observers missed it.
I expected Vance to do well, and he did. The one thing that struck me about this debate was the way both men acknowledged where they had agreements at multiple points of the evening. That was good for both of them (though I’m guessing Trump didn’t like it). As others have said, Walz had a very shaky start and was obviously nervous. He found his footing and other than the Tiananmen answer, he was on his game. Vance tried, and somewhat succeeded, in coming across as less creepy and weird than he normally does. I would say that last night was a draw and won’t really move the needle at all.
I don’t think he did well at all.
If you are constantly lying, you’re not doing well.
That would be like saying someone is good at cycling, because he put a motor on his bike while the other guy doesn’t and is honestly pedalling.
This is not meant to tell you off, but it says a lot that we are now judging someone to do well, even though he doesn’t stick to the assignment at all by lying or using that motor on his bike .
I saw a few clips of walz but I can’t listen to Vance with the sound on. Have to read transcripts. He lied about a lot and I hope it gets called out.
Health care in MN is not as perfect as Walz is making it out to be.
The level of care and services available is lacking and getting worse, short staffed, insurance denials, Drs and clinics have huge wait times, more are using the ER for their needs, etc.
Born and live in MN my entire life. We are still in better shape than many other states.
I can not understand how anyone can still be undecided on the issues.
Staff shortage & long waiting time are the results of COVID pandemic; insurance denials are pure cooperate greed. These situations happen in all American states. MN is lucky to have a top hospital Mayo Clinics. Yes, the USA’s health care system is a mess, but can you imagine if the ACA get gutted? Vote Blue.
Totally agree. I also don’t think he was making it out to be perfect, he was touting the very real things that Minnesota has as resources – and the Mayo Clinic is a d*mn good one. (Don’t tell my Sconnie people that I just complimented Minnesota though.)
Also totally agree that it’s flabbergasting that anyone could still be undecided.
It went pretty much the way I expected. Tim is always Tim and he does embellish. And JD Vance is good at the things which require slickness. But he can’t do simple things which require friendly human interaction like ordering donuts. Plus, he lies. A lot. His evasiveness and dishonesty about January 6th lost the debate.
Vance wants to be VP and yet gets riled up bc of “fact checking”
Stop all the lying. Then you’d have no problem with facts.
That right there made me laugh. But you said! No fact checking! I’m supposed to be able to lie my face off!! No fair!!!!
I don’t care about the debate. As someone who lives in Nc and has friends and family still unaccounted for in the western part of the state, the fed gov needs to step the f up its help. Gov Cooper has publicly been begging for more help daily. Send in some troops..there is no food or water. We are sending troops to the Middle East again and have the bare minimum national guard assisting American citizens. Get loud about this ladies!!!
I’m so sorry, Nellie. I hope your family and friends will be OK. My parents are from the Greensboro area and I’ve visited Asheville a couple of times. The little town where my grandfather grew up, and where my father spent many of his summers, might not even be there any more.
It is so sad and scary how devastating this storm was. I’m glad Cooper seems to be a really good governor and I hope you all get the help you need.
Scary stuff, but I’ve seen Cooper saying they’ve been getting help & are doing the best they can, & that the federal government has been very responsive. Both he & Biden have been filmed by journalists saying exactly that. MAGA & their Dear Leader have been spreading lies about the Hurricane Helene response. It’s a massive disaster & nothing will get fixed immediately. Not sure this will get posted due to the links, but the links are to factual information,
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article293269729.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-trump-visits-georgia-in-aftermath-of-hurricane-helene
https://www.blackmountainnews.com/story/news/2024/10/01/nc-gov-roy-cooper-fema-talk-relief-efforts-in-black-mountain/75475422007/
He’s gotten everything he asked for. Robinson was the one who didn’t vote for anything and sat around.
The problem is a hefty amount of the roads are out, the terrain can’t handle planes, and helicopters can’t carry extensive supplies. I know saying that doesn’t fix anything, but it is being compared to Katrina by a lot of outlets for a reason. It’s a logistics nightmare.
President Biden & Defense Secretary have signed off sending up to 1000 troops to NC today.
Biden is very aware that the disaster areas need help (no matter blue or red states); unlike when the 🍊💩 was president, he withheld federal assistance to NC for several wks simply because NC had a Democrat governor.
“We are sending troops to the Middle East again…”
What? Have I totally missed this in the news?
She’s likely referring to the troops out on deployment in that region who have been readied to deal with the escalating conflicts there. Most of them are from bases in that region, however, not sent there from the US mainland. One of my coworkers has been in Israel since May of last year.
Vance appeared like the sleazy, arrogant politician he is. I feel like he might be more dangerous than Trump in a position of power simply because he has the ability to dial it down.
Walz is such a decent man, there is a sincerity about him I find very appealing.
As creepy as he is, Vance is very smart. It’s not surprising he’s a polished debater. That is his format, whereas Waltz does well in spontaneous meetings with people and doing speeches.
Waltz did seem nervous at first and he tripped over his words a bit, but it wasn’t a big deal. He got progressively better and finished very strong. He missed some opportunities I like that he focused on attacking Trump and defending/praising Harris, because it’s the top of the ticket that really matters.
Who “wins” the debate really doesn’t matter, so long as both hold their own, which they did. You need some good moments, maybe a viral line or two (or a big blunder by the other person), and to be likable. George W. Bush was not as good a debater as either Gore or Kerry, but people found him more down to earth and approachable.
Vance managed to come across as more appealing than usual (not a high bar), but then he let his prickiness show when he talked over the moderators and complained about the fact checking. Not a good look.
All in all it was kind of a wash.
I don’t understand how people can say he’s good at it at all.
He would be good at it if he did it with minimal to no lying, but he does not.
That’s like saying I’m good at speaking Swedish because I throw English words in half the time and therefore keep talking speedily and smoothly, without having to think or actually stick to grammar rules.
It was surreal watching Vance switch between his “I’m a reasonable calm person” voice and the occasional mask slip like a sociopath. The only time he seemed human was when Walz talked about his son witnessing a shooting.
Vance avoided answering the question about deportation twice, won’t acknowledge the 2020 election results and couldn’t give a straight answer about abortion. That tell me his policy positions are too detestable to articulate.
Agreed. I told my group chat that I felt like I was watching a theater performance with Vance but that his malevolence still oozed through.
Malevolent –That’s the word I was trying to think of!
No debate for me. No interviews or campaign speeches. I’m done. I know who has my vote, nothing will change my mind so why waste my time when I could be doing something productive.
I thought Walz was very disappointing. Vance lied about Kamala so many times and he never strongly called him out. Should have called him an outrageous liar just like Trump. Should have done it over and over again. Could have attacked Vance on so many levels but didn’t. He just stayed quiet. Could have reminded the viewer how extreme they are and what we will lose if they get elected.
Well, if you were able to pick up the lies then other people would be able to as well. Vance gives off dishonesty like skunk smell and he’s hella creepy too. I doubt if he won any new converts to the cult at this point.
It was frustrating, I agree, but I’m almost positive that it was deliberate on the part of the Harris/Walz campaign. Bombarding their opponents and the voting public with lies and personal attacks is a known Republican tactic to distract from their terrifying and actually quite unpopular goals, and Walz was almost certainly advised to not take the bait and attempt to refute every single one of them. One of the most common critiques of Kamala (however unjustified) has been that she’s vague on policy, and because she was robbed of the opportunity to elaborate on that during further debates between herself and Trump, it fell to Walz to do his best to represent the Democratic platform and at least TRY to contrast our vision with the dystopian hellscape that the Republicans have in mind. At the same time, he had to be congenial enough to ease the ridiculous fears of voters who are afraid of electing a WOC. It was a pretty tall order.
From the little I watched (Vance reminds me too much of my arsehole ex-husband, can’t abide), it looked like they took the same strategy David Muir took at the Presidential- If he insisted on hanging himself, let him. My feeling is that the ones who agree with and want to vote for Trump/Vance will do it no matter what. It’s the Undecideds and the reluctant Dem base that needs courting. That’s what they’re sticking with and it’s working well enough. A close race isn’t ideal. But the fact that Harris/Walz have had this much enthusiasm so late in the game is a) slightly unexpected and b) quite encouraging. We can fight amongst ourselves in the parking lot after this is all over. For now, we need FOCUS to get to the next step.
The previous comments likening Vance to a sociopath are spot on, he is so creepy and “shape shifting” to suit the audience, when with the pod bros it’s all hard line alt right and last night he did his best to be a regular Joe from the Midwest which he is not Thiel bought his Senate seat. This guy is terrifying because he has no ethics and willing to do anything for power. For those paying attention he did not answer any of the questions directly he pivoted on climate, immigration, democracy, etc.. I hope his fairness and slipping of his mask registered with viewers. The fact that he did agree that he would certify the election, nor confirm that Biden won 2020, should terrify everyone to run to the polls
“Shape shifting” and name changing. Someone is hiding or hiding something about their past if they change their names that much. His past is littered with lies and half truths.
Guyliner and Gov Walz might both from the Midwest, but they are worlds apart.
And by the way, Maybelline, I don’t know what powers that you think has or think the VP should have, but Kamala Harris has been VP not president or the last almost four years.
The way that eyeliner kept calling him “Tim” and not calling him Governor.
JD Vance is an arrogant sneaky snake that is going to 25th Trump and slither right into the presidency and then he’s going to institute his Heritage Foundation policies. WE CAN’T LET THAT HAPPEN!
Vance is not the kind of guy the maga base wants, he’s what the other side of the GOP-the side thats trying to claw their way back, wants. And if Trump is elected they will lame duck him the moment he is sworn in. This guy and his support of Project 2025 is the real threat.
What gets on my nerves are Dems once again using debates to decide if someone should be President. It was dumb before and dumb now. Especially if being the best liar is all the media is focused on.
IMO Vance will be more dangerous in the future.
Vance was brought in bc he is younger, etc. Trump is the name but Vance will be going all out to undercut Trump and seize power.
Vance could be an 8 year nightmare for us.
Vance was probably mad that a woman dared to fact-check him. The anger must have made his eyeliner close to running down his cheeks like that dye ran down the sides of Guiliani’s face.
When Vance gave his answer about abortion by saying that they needed to restore trust with the government, I couldn’t help but think about the women who have died putting their trust in their state government.
Probably the biggest miscarriage of justice going on in media right now is how many reporters are not directly asking Vance and Trump what the difference between a ban and minimum national standard is. Because there is no difference. It’s just a semantic trick to make people think otherwise, and the media is helping Trump promote it by refusing to challenge his claim he wouldn’t ban abortion. (Reality check: he will.)
That eyeliner wasn’t even subtle
I don’t think this will impact the race much, but I do think Walz is the one who actually lost here. Not so much on his own but in terms of the greater effort for women’s rights and the risk at hand. Vance played nice, making his lies seem all the more rational, and instead of challenging them head on, Walz responded nicely. I agree with my friend that this is one of the biggest warning signs for the future, that many democrats are still willing to think decorum is possible with these fascists. Walz is a good man, but right now we need good men to be angry men, too.
Just realized yesterday was former POTUS Jimmy Carters 100th birthday.
Happy belated birthday!
His work after he left office is inspirational. 👍