I’ve made the effort to not go full conspiracist on Luigi Mangione, but one conspiracy I do believe (right now) is that Mangione’s arrest at a Pennsylvania McDonald’s probably didn’t happen the way we were told. As in, I’m not sure I believe that some McD’s worker recognized Mangione and called in a tip, and that tip was taken seriously enough for an arrest. The NYPD even said, following Mangione’s arrest, that he wasn’t really on their radar. Something fishy is going on with how they tracked him, and I do think “the McDonald’s tip” was some kind of cover story. In any case, Luigi was arrested on December 9th, and he’s been in custody in Pennsylvania ever since. New York has not managed to extradite Luigi yet, but they did manage to get Luigi indicted on Tuesday. They’re throwing the book at him.
A New York grand jury has indicted Luigi Mangione on terrorism charges related to the Dec. 4 killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.
The grand jury voted to indict Mangione on second-degree murder charges as a “crime of terrorism,” indicating the accused killer had intended to “intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policy of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion, and affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination or kidnapping,”
Mangione is also charged with first-degree murder, which in New York is reserved for specific acts like the murder of police officers, murder-for-hire, killing a witness, or acts of terrorism. He also faces charges for possessing weapons and forged instruments.
“We allege that Luigi Mangione carried out the brazen, targeted and fatal shooting of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in Midtown Manhattan,” said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg in a statement issued on Dec. 17. “This type of premeditated, targeted gun violence cannot and will not be tolerated, and my office has been working day in and day out to bring the defendant to justice.”
The Ivy League-educated scion of a prominent Maryland family is the prime suspect in the killing of Thompson, who was gunned down on Dec. 4 in Midtown Manhattan by a masked assailant who then fled the scene on a bicycle, evading authorities. A motive has not been definitively established, but police believe Mangione harbored an animus towards corporate America, particularly the healthcare industry. The words “deny” and “depose” were found on shell casings at the scene, while “delay” was found on a bullet, per Bragg’s office — similar to a phrase used to describe the health insurance industry’s practices for scuttling claims.
Was the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson an act of terrorism? Eh. It was absolutely first-degree murder. It was absolutely premeditated murder with a social/political message. But “violently hating healthcare executives” isn’t terrorism. It just isn’t.
Something else I didn’t know before today: Luigi had completely cut off contact with his family in the six months prior to murdering Thompson? Luigi’s mom filed a missing-person report. People keep coming back to Luigi’s back problems, and his back surgery last year. Something about the surgery and his health problems, it seems to have radicalized him, if you consider it radical to despise healthcare executives.
Photos courtesy of Backgrid, social media.
The terrorism charge is something I don’t get.
Like the examples you mentioned that CB researched, ever single mass shooter with a religious background should then have to be charged under the terrorism act, every man whose reason to kill is misogyny. Or school shooters.
The Pulse nightclub shooter *was* a domestic terrorist, as was the Tree of Life Synagoge shooting. Different situations.
They’re on very thin ice with that direction that they want to take with their prosecution, IMO.
Nanea, A friend of mine ecplained that you can only charge murder 1 in very specific circumstances in NY. As stated above, “Mangione is also charged with first-degree murder, which in New York is reserved for specific acts like the murder of police officers, murder-for-hire, killing a witness, or acts of terrorism.”
Normally, he’d be charged with a lesser sentence. Brian Thompson wasn’t a police officer, witness or whatever, so they’re arguing that Mangione is a terrorist.
Personally, Mangione absolutely has mental health issues, and it’s absolutely in the interest of society he’s not wandering about untreated. He is not a terrorist. I do NOT understand this reaction from NY at all.
No, it wasn’t terrorism. It was just another white man using a gun to resolve his grievances. Happens every day in America.
Part of their reasoning for branding it terrorism is the massive outpouring of support for him… which he could not have anticipated!
And something about the wanted posters of CEOs that got posted later, posted by other people not associated with him. It’s a pretty thin argument.
🎯
Terrorism Analyst here: No, it is not. Terrorism specifically targets unaffiliated civilians (innocent targets) to send a message/influence policy. The fact that Thompson was deliberately chosen as a rep of a deliberately chosen industry negates this. Assassination, yes. Terrorism, no.
🎯
The terrorism charges, along with the state of NY considering setting up a special hotline specifically for CEOs to report safety threats to them, is just our government working overtime to make sure that the peasants recognize that the only people who matter in this country is the ruling class which must be protected at all costs while the great unwashed are treated as expendable
Exactly what you said Potty Mouth. 💯
🎯
The way these charges are set up I can see a jury acquitting him. Even ignoring the issue that it may not be him (fingerprints found when he’s clearly wearing gloves), the terrorism charge doesn’t fit here at all. And the above explanation of first degree in NY state being for specific types of person only, really makes it possible that a good defence lawyer can show the prosecution has not proven the elements of the offence beyond a reasonable doubt.
(I don’t know if there are more appropriate charges also included, but this prosecution is kind of a mess right now).
It’s very odd indeed.
complete slap in the face to any parent who’s lost a child to a mass shooting…
This is nonsense.
Yeah, what? This is ridiculous. How have we gone decades of mass shooting targeting school students, women, communities of color, religious communities, and the LGBTQ+ community, with clear cut discrimination meant to intimate and terrorize, and *this* is being called terrorism? It’s actually really flabbergasting and upsetting.
Are you guys not reading the article itself, with the excerpt from the NY Times before commenting angrily? No, obviously this wasn’t a terrorist attack, but it’s the only way he can be charged with first degree murder in New York.
Wouldn’t it be harder to prove though? I thought second degree murder in New York is equal to first degree murder everywhere else.
Isn’t it possible the prosecution could lose if the bar is set high to a terrorism charge? I’m only speculating — I have no idea. But it sounds harder to prove….
Well, NY set the laws, not the commenters. NY should have thought about all this before they set their laws that won’t allow them to charge murderers with first degree murder if they don’t fit a certain type of criminal. Don’t blame the messenger. This guy is not a terrorist. A murderer in the first degree, yes, but a terrorist he isn’t.
Charges and convictions aren’t always the same. The jury could opt for second degree murder depending upon the instructions from the judge.
It’s the only way under NY State law that they can try for a first-degree murder charge.
If they can’t legally charge him for first degree murder in NY without falsely claiming he is a terrorist then….don’t charge him with first degree murder?
Like, this CEO is not the only person to ever be murdered in cold blood in NY ever, so charge him with whatever legally applies to murder in NY, and don’t make sh*t up just because all the rich people are mad he shot a CEO?
(It seems obvious to me…so I assume I’m missing something. What? I bet someone here better understands, so please explain like I’m 5 why it’s okay to make up a terrorism charge just to be able to charge this guy with a worse charge than legally applies?)
And when he gets acquitted because it’s not the appropriate charge the DA will have a lot to answer for.
Woman and girls get assaulted everyday in New York nothing happens. This guy kills ceo , now he is terrorist?? Many people on x said that his back issue leads him to unable to enjoy his sex life. Maybe that’s the true motive . Having back pain and sex is big no no.
Under NY State law section 125.27, first degree murder is rather limited. Clearly, the victim was not a police officer. Clearly, the victim was not a peace office. Clearly, Thompson was not murdered to cover up some other crime. Etc.
The only way they can possibly stick first degree murder is by making this a terrorist act. Which it wasn’t, but they’re trying.
I’m aghast at the stories of people DYING from insurance denial of coverage that are now getting attention because of this.
I have heard law enforcement’s frustration with people seeing this guy as a folk hero. And I, um, don’t care.
This bogus terrorism charge might backfire and lead to an acquittal.
I would care about that more if we weren’t in our FAFO era.
Because the CEO was a rich white man. Womb are stalked and murdered by their partners and strangers everyday but that’s not considered terrorism.
They are reaching to protect the rich.
Yes. Making corporate executives a protected class so that the population won’t dare target them.
This is exactly what is happening—protect the oligarchs above all others.
ThatGirlThere, that’s my opinion, too. I’m tired of the rich getting different treatment in the criminal justice system than everyone else.
I think I heard they charged him with 2nd degree murder, too. They know that terrorism charge won’t be proven, so they did charge correctly with that.
Mangione has one of the best defense attorneys in the country, Karen Freidman Agnifilo. If this charge is BS she will get it dropped. She is the former #2 at the Manhattan DA’s office, she is not a celebrity attorney, she is a brilliant legal mind.
Would it be better if his attorney doesn’t try to get those charges dropped? I would imagine that the state will have a hard time proving the terrorism parts.
Side note: what did they do, convene a special grand jury made of up of only rich people?! What evidence was presented to bring an indictment involving terrorism?
Boxy Lady, I think they charged him with 2nd degree murder, too. They know those terrorism charges probably won’t fly, so he’ll probably get convicted on the 2nd degree murder charge.
The threshold for a grand jury indictment is incredibly low. The old saying is that “a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich.”
I’m tired of the press, and others, trying to shame people into feeling badly about this CEO getting murdered. People are fed up and frustrated that an ordinary person’s life means nothing to these companies other than profit. But, when the CEO, a rich, white man is killed, it’s supposed to mean so much more that they trump up a terrorism charge? Puh-lease…..spare me.
I’m a New Yorker. I just saw video on the news of the DA (that I actually do like) and the Police Commissioner trying to demand sympathy from the public about this man’s death, and I can tell you, people just aren’t feeling it. Not when these healthcare companies feel nothing for their own customers. They’re just going to make Mangione into a martyr. People identify with his frustrations with the system. My mom suffered a serious illness this year and I spent hours and hours appealing her health insurance company’s denial of her claims. I was advised by the folks that were helping me advocate for her, that the insurance companies bank on you becoming fed up, and giving up the fight. Their aim and goal is to wear you down to the point where you stop fighting them and just accept their denials. This is why the millions of people just like me who go through this don’t have any outrage about Thompson’s death. Add to it the fact that the suspect presents as a successful, attractive guy and you have a martyr in the making…
I recently read something about the CEOs supposed ‘concerns’ about perceptions of their business and that he wanted to show/persuade people people that these weren’t valid which read as an outright cleanup in aisle 2.
Did they have exec discussions about negative perceptions of the company? Very probably, but I’d bet only in relation to profitability, share price, etc. This piece read as him being sad that some people were so badly misinformed about the great work they do. Gross.
Agree! The shaming of the general public from the media and law enforcement because we don’t feel sad about the loss of a man who reps greed and money above human lives.
It just points to how upset the ruling class is over the nation’s reaction to the murder of one of their own.
All the people the CEO murdered through malicious profit making is business, this guy is a terrorist. Pfft. Crazy? Yes. A terrorist? Um, no.
The insanity…I’d say that UHC is a terrorist organization for the way they deliberately deny care to policyholders.
There are now literally businesses that (if you pay) will do the phone work for you. Outrageous the insurance companies are allowed to do this. The dems should make this their fight.
I’ve been dealing with a $40,000 inpatient hospital stay claim from back in June that my health insurance approved and said they would cover when it was happening. Since July, they have been denying the claim despite the written receipts of them saying they would cover it. It has been a horrible, extremely stressful ordeal. I was told by someone who has a family member who works in health insurance that it’s their job to deny it at least five times to try and get you to give up so they don’t have to pay. I’m not going to hurt anyone at all but the stress of financial ruin and an insurance company trying to destroy your life after you’ve already been through a scary health ordeal is a lot. I can imagine back surgery costs more than $40,000.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that.
I was once sent a $75,000 bill from the hospital after breaking my ankle and requiring surgery, because the hospital wasn’t Tier 1 in my network. It all got resolved, but only because I fought for myself.
I’m sorry you went through that too, Lucy2. I’m glad that was resolved. The hospital is fortunately on my side and is advocating for me. I’m hopeful this will be resolved but it’s horrible what they do to people who have just been through something that is likely horrible with their health. I don’t know how these people live with themselves. I suppose they disassociate since all we are to them is a claim on a computer screen or piece of paper. The inhumanity of it all is chilling.
My god, they tried to destroy your life for the non-crime of a broken bone.
Ah. The 1% managed to get 49.9% of the public to vote for a candidate that will give what little wealth remains in the hands of the other 99% to them while they destroy the economy, public health/education and the environment to get even richer. The public reaction to this shooting makes them realize that even though the public hasn’t been voting in their own self-interest or self preservation because mango gives the 49.9% space to be racist, sexist and homophobic assholes, the entirety of the public realizes the 1% are not doing anything beneficial.
TN Democrat, and that’s what has the 1%, especially in health care insurance, all up in arms and reporting death threats that aren’t really death threats. If I remember the article correctly there is a woman in Florida who made a comment at the end of a conversation with her insurance and the police showed up at the door and charged her with terrorism, too. It didn’t sound like a threat from her to begin with. I’m hoping the charges are dismissed.
I suggest the 1% be very careful about having people charged with terrorism. They are deliberately making the entire situation worse. (No, that’s not a threat of any kind. That is advice.)
I believe the charges were dismissed against her. That was insane. Watching her arraignment prior to her eventual release was heartbreaking.
Regarding all of the above:
In my town, it would just be a “drug deal gone bad” and relegated to a tiny paragraph buried in the back pages of the news.
Generations of children have had to worry every day about what they’ll do if their school gets shot up. Kids live in fear. Not terrorism.
A CEO is killed. OMG terrorism.
The world sucks.
It’s actually America where this is normal. Not the world
Give me a break! The guy who was killed was someone who made millions bringing misery and death upon thousands for years. Murdering him might be illegal, but how is it terrorism? None of the white cops who murder black people get charged with terrorism even though they are clearly part of a system designed to terrorize neighborhoods and a whole race of people …
The ruling class are going to use him as an example of what happens to people who attack them. He’s going to be a lesson to people. It won’t work but they’ll try.
EXCUSE ME
How dare they? Brian Thompson had a Bachelor’s of Business Administration in Accounting. He never touched a patient, unless it was to profit off patients’ suffering.
He is a healthcare professional in the same way the SS Auschwitz camp guard is a camp counselor.
Brian Thompson and the likes of him are healthcare terrorists.
🎯
So if you kill a CEO, an “important” man in an “important” industry, it’s terrorism, but if you kill a teacher, computer programmer or stay-at-home mom, it’s not terrorism. Bullshit to all that. He should not be charged with terrorism. As a former teacher, I never had “reasons” to deny my students knowledge, whereas Brian Thompson had “reasons” to deny customers healthcare. He was PAID big bucks (and fraudulently got more) to do the opposite of what he should have been doing. So, he is NOT above other workers; indeed, he is below other workers who actually DO the work they are paid for and benefit society. Thompson manipulated the system to only benefit himself and his cronies. Unbelievable.
I didn’t believe the Eric Adams when he said they knew who he was, now I do. Maybe he was bullshiting and didn’t really know but in this day and age of facial recognition and the fact that he was present on social media and SF authorities sent in the tip to the FBI that they thought it could be him due to the missing persons file.
Afterwards I dont think they actually knew his whereabouts which is why I kinda believe the Mickey D tip thing. Like some people said he should have maybe stopped wearing a mask because it made him look more suspicious than if he had not. Shoulda shaved his head and plucked his eyebrows gone maskless and I don’t think anyone would have tagged him as suspicious.
Yes! he should have changed into completely different style clothing, shave his head and umm.. get rid of the evidence!!
Well I’m learning more about the murder laws than I ever wanted to about my home state. They might want to revamp the first degree murder laws in NY. While Luigi is clearly deranged (I don’t see him as a folk hero like some others do), his goal seemed to hone in on Brian Thompson specifically. It’s absolutely premeditated but I doubt the first degree murder charge will stick if they’re trying to charge him with terrorism.
I’m a bit tired of all the conspiracy theories about his arrest, that the evidence was “planted” on him (like he didn’t notice someone planting a gun and manifesto in his backpack??) and that the Mcdonald’s arrest is suspicious. A customer (not an employee) recognized him, told an employee who then called 911. San Francisco cops also recognized him when they started circulating the maskless pics of him at the hostel because his mom filed a missing person’s report with them in November. If the cops in San Francisco recognized him from his photos, I can’t see why a customer in Mcdonald’s couldn’t either. Some people pay very close attention. They passed along the info to California FBI who then got in touch with NY authorities. Law enforcement literally spoke to his mom the day before his arrest, they were honing in on who he was before he was arrested.
I hate how our government keeps throwing “terrorism” at us, to keep us subdued.
Mangione should use the same defense that police officers use and the one that heroes on the right use when they kill Black people and people they deem “leftist”. Let’s see, it worked for Daniel Penny, Kyle Rittenhouse, and George Zimmerman. So Mangione should say he was in fear of his life and was just trying to protect the public from an unhinged unwell dangerous man.