Yesterday, I emailed CB and Bedhead and told them I had a feeling that we were getting a new Pope shortly. CB was all, “Whatever, it can wait” (I’m paraphrasing), meaning that we don’t have to do breaking-news coverage of the new pope if and when it happens. As it turned out, I was right! Just a few hours later, white smoke came billowing out of the special Pope chimney while I was at the gym. An hour later, “Habemus Papum!” The new Pope was announced – Jesuit Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio has become Pope Francis I, the first ever South American Pope. The first Pope from the Americas. The first Latin American Pope. And the first Jesuit Pope, right? I’m not a Catholic, but my Indian father was educated by the Jesuits (in India) and he always spoke highly of the Jesuit sect (honestly, my father was one of the most Catholic Hindus ever). So here are some interesting factoids about the new Pope:
*He was born and raised in Argentina and he’s the archbishop of Buenos Aires. Also: his father was Italian!
*When he was appointed Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he was pretty much told “here’s your palace.” He didn’t want to live in the palace. So he moved to a humble apartment. He takes the bus instead of using a chauffeur-driven car.
*His big causes are poverty and social equality. Some people are even describing him as “wary of capitalism” and he’s publicly used words like “redistribution of wealth”.
*But he isn’t a fan of gay people or gay people getting married. He led a crusade against a proposal that would legalize gay marriage in Argentina. Despite the Church protests, the legislation passed and gay people can totally get married in Argentina, which I totally didn’t know before today. He’s also against gay adoption. He’s very pro-nuclear family. Maybe he’ll shut down the Vatican’s Roman gay bathhouse/club/sauna.
*He might be soft on the Church’s stance on birth control though – apparently he’s said a few times that condoms are good because they stop the spread of disease. Saying that is a surprisingly big deal when you’re an archbishop. Or the Pope.
*He was never a Hitler Youth, thank God.
So, all in all, a mixed bag. I like the fact that they didn’t pick just some European dude this time. And I like that he’s a Jesuit too. Maybe he’ll inject some pragmatism into the Church. But he’s 76 years old – how long will he reign? Realistically?
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Mazel tov?! 🙂
He looks young, though. Best of luck to him.
I thought the same thing. He is older than he looks, and he seems to be in good health so I’d say he will be pope for at least 10 years.
It is habemus PAPAM. Sorry, my Latin teacher would freak if I didn’t speak up!
Yes. What is it about Latin teachers? Mine would have freaked out too.
On Dutch television they actually said ‘habemus popum’. It gave me a laugh attack, I imagine my old Latin teacher had a heart attack though :p
😉
I just wanted to say that, my Latin teacher would freak out too.
I’m not Catholic either but I was watching the coverage yesterday and it was exciting to watch it all unfold. He looks in good health and I think he will make a great Pope. Viva Il Papa!
It was indeed exciting! I loved his speech, very humble and powerful (and with a few hidden witty remarks).
He made a good impression on me, I’m hoping he’ll keep working to clean and straighten the Church.
I’ll say something in favour of Ratzinger, though: many (if not most) people of a certain age here in Italy or up in Germany were in the Youth sections of the Nazi or Fascist parties. That does not necessarily define who they are: Ratzinger for instance was a deserter and refused to obey orders during WWII. My great uncle fled Italy to avoid serving for Mussolini. My great aunt was a strong supported of Mussolini. Being a “Youth” of whichever party does not mean supporting that party.
Yes, I agree. There was plenty I didn’t like about the last pope, but the Hitler Youth thing was a tempest in a teapot.
The NYT had a very interesting article regarding the power struggles between Ratzinger and certain other high ranking Vatican Cardinals.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/opinion/the-pope-could-still-right-the-wrongs.html?_r=1&
Looks like Ratzinger could not oust Sodano from being at the forefront during this election.
The new pope BTW is just as conservative as Pope John Paul II and Ratzinger. Ratzinger was not as outgoing as his predecessor and he was more of an intellectual. People could not get behind him, because the church feeds on believing and not on thinking. He may not have been the most PR friendly pope, but in comparison to John Paul II he was at least trying to fix some of the awful things the church did over the centuries.
Ah, RocketMerry, you must have been watching it all unfold! I remember seeing a few things floating about on twitter, turned on the news and there we go – new Pope!
I’d love to go to St Peter’s Square and see the crowds. I’m not Catholic, but it looks like such an incredible atmosphere.
I have to say I find it quite funny that he said the Falkland Islands would always belong to Argentina, considering the recent vote. Some corners of the press are already running with that story.
Final note – does anyone else think he looks a bit like Jonathan Pryce? (Governer Swan in Pirates of the Caribbean).
Hey Amelia! 🙂
It did look very impressive; I only saw it on tv, but I did go to see the Pope during Sunday audience back when I was a child: the Square was packed with people!
One thing that is amazing is being in the almost empty Square before the event, it looks sooooo huge! Really makes you understand exactly how many people are there with you later.
Hm. I really should go back to visit Rome: been there twice and never got a chance to see the Sixtine Chapel!
LOL @ Governer Swan from PotC: NOW I see it too! 😀
He seems like a really sweet and humble man.
I really hope for change. His refusal of gay people is disappointing though. On the other hand there’s probably not one cardinal who would speak up for gays right now.
He is very sweet and humble. In fact, he is known for taking the subway regularly lol.
BUT, he was also against contraception and is anti-gay. AND, there is some shady things on his past during the dictatorship era in Argentina.
“His refusal of gay people is disappointing.”
Come on now, this cannot possibly be a surprise to anyone. I can’t believe how many people I’ve seen that are confused/shocked by this. He is the Pope. Is it really that shocking that he believes in the Catholic doctrine?
I agree 100% with your post! When I heard news outlets saying he was a little more liberal than most cardinals, I was hoping that he was ready to accept gay marriage. It’s disappointing but maybe he’ll open his heart.
Flor, actually he helped hide and scape people that were persecuted during the latest dictatorship in Argentina. The picture of him giving communion to Videla is fake.
He is the Pope, I’m surprised anyone expected him not to be against gay marriage. I am gay friendly and Catholic, but I didn’t think he’ll think different. He is against bullying homosexuals, though.
He also kissed a HIV-patient and washed his feet, and he is against not allowing children out of wedlock to be christened.
I like him.
Brown, I’m not surprised. Like I said, there’s probably no cardinal who would speak up for gays right now, but I’m so sick of it. Takes probably 100 more years. The church should embrace everyone. I hope he can at least change how the church deals with divorced people and the position of women in church. 😉
He’s against gay marriage but he has said on record that those who identify as gay should still be treated with love and respect by Christians, i.e. like human beings. I can at least appreciate that much, and I wish more Christians who oppose gay marriage could at least practice treating gay people with respect.
It is against the Catholic doctrine to hate and/or mistreat anyone. If you see someone who professes to be Catholic and then practices hate speech or hate actions, those are not people following the Catholic doctrine.
Pope Francis is more than right in this respect, but he is not opening to anything new: in fact, I’m very puzzled that Catholic people even need to be reminded that the Catholic religion is above all a religion about love.
He refused to take his limo today, got into a regular car. He seems humble and relatable. No matter which cardinal that had been chosen as Pope, they wouldn’t approve of gay marriage. It’s not going to happen for a long time. I mean they still have celibacy for thousands of years for priests/nuns/cardinals/Popes. If you think about it they don’t even approve of straight marriage amount their hierarchy.
He’s a jesuit. Jesuits are usually more liberal than other catholics.
@ Amelia – Yes! I thought JP’s older bro or father.
Sorry – wrong place.
Ha – didn’t Jonathan Pryce play Peron in “Don’t Cry for Me Argentina” – the Madonna movie? Correct me if I am wrong. The irony, the irony!
Hopefully taking the name of St Francis signals this pope’s willingness to be a better advocate for the poor and least of these. Dare to dream!
Bonus: wasn’t a Hitler Youth! Good call, Catholics!
I think that the disappointment because he’s not a progressive is a little silly. This is, after all, the Vatican, and progress is going to be slow, at best. The Catholic Church is also trying to protect its own interests, and a South American Pope is a good political choice.
The bar must be set pretty low when our first response is “at least he isn’t a Nazi.”
Unfortunately, he may have been complicit in the fascist government in Argentina, and a case involving the kidnapping of two liberal priests: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/pope-francis-kidnapping_n_2870251.html
Very glad to be a LAPSED catholic!
If you research further, you will find that he was very instrumental behind the scenes in securing the two priests freedom.
Actually he helped hide and scape people that were persecuted during the latest dictatorship in Argentina. Those two priests were protected by him in Máximo College at San Miguel in Buenos Aires, and helped them scape.
“This is, after all, the Vatican, and progress is going to be slow, at best.”
Yes. All the hoopla and all I can think is “meet the new Pope, same as the old Pope.”
I say this is someone who was raised Catholic then walked away when my oldest son was nearing his first communion and I realized we were pretty much living a lie and just bending over backwards to please our iron-fisted and unfriendly church. Post-Catholic is what I call myself now.
Co sign
My wish is that the new Pope who has been elected will finally address the sexual, physical, and mental abuse that have taken place under the guise of a “G/god”. An apology is not good enough, the people who have had their lives ripped apart need to have some sort of closure. Jail and/or ex-communicate those who have aided in covering up, or participating in these abuses. There is no “God” who would ever condone this. I really hope the new Pope will be the voice for the voiceless, and restore dignity and truth to the victims.
That was another thing I heard while I was watching yesterday—that he wants to clean house and deal with the people that were involved with all of these scandals. I hope it’s true but hard to tell since people really don’t know much about him yet.
I’m not Catholic either (rather, Episcopalian – we love the gays & the lady priests!) but I thought this was an interesting choice. Do I wish he were more socially liberal? Of course. But I do think he’s a fantastic choice for these times of enormous wealth disparity. He talks about the way the economy is going as being a “crime against humanity” and a sin. I like that part. And I love that he’s from the Americas, too 😉
The “special Pope chimney”, heeheehee. I can’t stop giggling over that.
Anyway! I’m not Catholic (Antiochian Orthodox born and raised) but I like this guy, he seems quite humble and down to earth – for a Pope, I mean. I’m not thrilled about his attitudes on homosexuality but then again, I’m not surprised either.
As for how long he’ll be Pope, IDK. Apparently he only has 1 lung because he had one removed when he was a child, so that doesn’t help him. Of course, if anyone is going to have an awesome health care plan, it’d be the Pope. 😛
I’m no Bendecdict fan, but I wouldn’t call him a ‘active’ Hitler youth. All 14 year olds at the time were drafted into the HY whether you wanted to or not. He was in seminary the entire time, so it’s not like he was goosestepping around. Once he got drafted into the army from seminary, he deserted and went home in hiding.
I’m less shocked that it’s someone from South America, then I am that they picked a jesuit. That’s a order that hasn’t been to popular with the church hierarchy over the last 100 years. I also think his name is related to the founder of the jesuits St. Francis Xavier as well as St. Francis of Assissi. They were very different guys, so we’ll see which he relates to more. I also like that he became a priest later in life-in his 30’s, so hopefully he saw more of the world than guys who entered seminary at 14 or 15.
I think he is very much on a platform of social justice and advocating for the poor-this is the same guy who washed the feet of aids patients as a cardinal. Not something alot of the rest of them would do. http://communio.stblogs.org/Bergoglio%20washing%20feet.jpg
I’m cautiously hopeful.
St. Francis Xavier didn’t found the Jesuits. The Jesuits were founded by St. Ignatius of Loyola.
Co-founder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Xavier
He chose Francis for St. Francis of Assisi
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/video/8616695-cardinal-dolan-talks-about-the-choice-of-pope-francis/
He says that, but it’s no coincidence that the co-founder of his order has the same name.
Time will tell I guess.
I have to correct you Kaizer but Bergoglio was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, not in Brazil.
He was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina (not Brazil).
I hope he will be able to clean-up the church from all the terrible corruption and scandal.
surprise, its a very old man.
I love how he simply raised his hand to introduce himself and acknowledge the crowd – his previous predecessors had a grander way of introducing themselves (the open arms thing)
Vatican gay bathhouse Thats funny
Yeah, it’s great that the new pope was never a member of Hitler Youth. Pity that he is an actual war criminal instead.
Mind you, if he is going to be the head of what is effectively a criminal cartel, that is only fitting.
“Mind you, if he is going to be the head of what is effectively a criminal cartel, that is only fitting.”
LOL
Actually it’s not that funny, but you got a good point there!
“he is an actual war criminal instead” that is not true. Actually he helped hide and scape people that were persecuted during the latest dictatorship in Argentina. The picture of him giving communion to Videla is fake.
What did he do to oppose the junta? A: NOTHING
Look, that is a very sentive subject in Argentina. By opposing what do you mean? Saying you are against? is that doing something? He actually helped people that were being persecuted. He didn´t work for the Junta o get rich by their policies like people who nowadays rule the country.
@ Paddy So you want the Catholic church to get involved with national politics? Of course he didn’t side against the Junta! The church learned its lesson hundreds of years ago. The churches mission isn’t to become politically involved because in its history when it did, it became a deadly organizations that resulted in many deaths.
No one’s reading this thread anymore, but I have to…
@isabell
“If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”
Desmond Tutu
jesuit in the house!
the condom thing is a huge deal, goes against the whole catholic culture of life. unfortunately, all baby steps.
don’t hold your breath he hasn’t been connected to something bad. hard not to be in the catholic church.
he’ll be so loved if he stops hating on teh gays, gives women a place in the church and makes abusing people a real crime in the eyes of the church. the latter will come first seeing that they are bleeding money from all the lawsuits because of their “policies” -sad that it will be money that makes them stop harboring and sheltering f8&^%78 evil scum.
Baby steps are a good thing. You can’t just jump in and change everything people have believed for ages. It woud never work and probably completely kill what the Church has left. Change in the Catholic Church will be a long process, but to me as long as progress is happening, then they’re on the right track.
He wasn’t born in Brazil! He was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina.
Until priests are allowed to marry, there will always be sexual activity by both heterosexual and gay priests (with consenting adults), with very few celibate. (I had two friends who had affairs with straight, young priests). Did anyone watch 60 Minutes or was it Rock Center last week on the Pope stepping down and what was really going on in the inner circle and also witnessing the priests at some club that he infiltrated. I think one priest hit on him. His source was the Pope’s butler where they would meet up and he would give information to him. I think the hope is this Pope will have the strength to make changes necessary within the Vatican.
But the haven for pedophiles the Church created needs to be obliterated and addressed more strongly. I’m sure they know of many that were abusers in the past that are still within the church in some capacity and protected. Clean house. It will aways make me disgusted with the church, the way the Men of God protected their own, foisting them upon other unsuspecting parishes, who trusted them.
I just can’t with religious figureheads.
Me neither. Especially when that figurehead is extremely opposed to gay marriage/gay adoption.
I cannot get behind religious figures or religion period. This church especially. To see photos/footage of those glossy eyed sychophants in the Vatican streets is jaw dropping. The news coverage was relentless. Glad its over. The church wants to believe it sways it’s so called 1.5 members but most of them are just as corrupt and duplicitous as their leadership. Say one thing do another.
I blame the churches parishners more than the papacy these days because due to their blind devotion children will continue to be abused. We can all cite from the US, UK (N.Ireland) etc. that illustrate my point. This whole thing is sickening. What a sham.
Yeah, great, he didn’t use the mansion or the limo.
Tell me please, WHY the church has a mansion and a limo? Vow of poverty? All that wealth they’ve amassed could really help out some less fortunate. You know, those folks they’re supposed to be helping.
And I don’t want any morality preaching about gay marriage or adoption from a group that actively aided and abetted pedophiles. NO MORAL GROUND TO PREACH.
+1,000,000
So, SO with you!
Yes! Couldn’t agree with you more! I said to my mom on the phone last night that the Vatican should start giving away it’s billions to the poor to actually start HELPING them. What the hell does the Vatican need billions of dollars for? They say they help the poor, but do they really? They don’t. Instead they tell women that they shouldn’t use birth control/condoms because, as we all know, allowing women to have freedom over their reproductive rights improves the quality of their lives drastically. Why would they want to improve lives when they can keep the poor impoverished and under the Church’s control? It makes me sick, and I will never understand why people are so happy and excited about a new pope. He’s against gay people and gay adoption. But him being a Jesuit and a supposedly nice person somehow makes that okay? I don’t think so.
His name is only Pope Francis, since he is the first one to use that name there is no need for the roman numeral 😉
yeah, he’s not brazilian, but argentinian.
*Argentine
Sorry but I had an Argentine friend and it was a HUGE pet peeve of his when people said Argentinian. He passed it on to me. 🙂
I hear sexual abuse is rampant around soccer coaches and hockey coaches. This is why I don’t believe in sports and demand professional players make ammends for these atrocities otherwise they are guilty of the same crime.
lol, good analogy. i might steal it.
terrible analogy.
there is/was no all-powerful governing body of little-league sports or high school sports that actively aided and abetted the criminals.
a better analogy would be the Boy Scouts, as their governing body DID actually hide abuses committed by troop leaders.
Do hockey and soccer coaches have the political influence that the Catholic Church does?
I never knew that.
I’ve never heard of people following the doctrine espoused by soccer and hockey coaches and then using that doctrine to effectively legislate and create laws that affect me directly.
I really hope that if you’re a practicing Catholic that you have higher expectations of the Pope than that of a hockey coach.
Penn State, anyone?
I have hopes for this one even if he lost me at “brotherhood”.
Why are people so shocked that the Pope is against homosexuality? I mean how liberal do you expect the Catholic Church to be?
Personally, I have zero expectations for the Catholic Church. If you don’t like their stance of homosexuality, then don’t subscribe to their belief system.*
*like moi
Exactly! I’m not Catholic or any religion any more. But still I find it so odd that people are wanting the church to make these huge leaps and bounds and be open to homosexuality and gay marriages. Not everyone agrees with it, and as much and people stomp their feet and are pissed off about it, you cannot force your beliefs on other people. I believe that everyone should be equal and unless they are being truly awful, they should be allowed to do what they want and be treated the same. The Catholic Church did not feel that way in 1813, 1913 or 2013, so why get your panties in a bunch about it. Change takes a long time and it may never happen. Just because this guy is more liberal doesn’t mean he is going to completely turn his back on his religious teachings.
Yup, completely agree with everything you say here.
But what if somenone agrees with most of the Catholic doctrine? I’m Catholic, but I am pro gay marriage and pro gay adoption.
I need religion and God in my life. In my country, the Catholic Church has done a lot of good, and has been a safe place in times of great struggle. Being Catholic is almost part of our national identity.
Do I wish the Catholic Church would change some of its opinions? Yes. And I think they will. Slowly but surely, probably not in my lifetime, but they will
Just like I didn’t flee the country when W was elected I also do not flee my faith because I don’t agree on every issue. People that disagree need to stick around to promote change.
When I was girl they began allowing female altar servers. Change comes slowly but it is coming.
@Spooks: Why not practice a religion that IS inclusive of homosexuality then? Why does it have to be Catholicism—-or were you raised Catholic?
I don’t mean to sound antagonistic (tone is hard to convey here)–I’m genuinely curious. What does Catholicism offer you that another more inclusive religion that more closely aligns with your social stance? You’d still be believing in God and worshiping right?
I do not think there is a perfect religion. Everyone is going to find something to criticize in different religions.
I am Catholic and have gay friends who are catholic, too. I do not see them running off to other religions like if it were a buffet for you to choose.
I think people compromise. Also, inmy view, This religion is ver permissive. I have been a lousy catholic since my parents died, because of a bit of depression. I have not gone to mass or cooperate much with money. I still know the church is there, I am not kicked out, nor anything. My parents were in a second marriage, and we were not excluded ever, and even when my parent coul not have the communion bread, there were not kicked out of church or signaled and could participate in all events and activities. For me, it is a not demanding church, And I really consider myself a good preson and citizen.
I think that people that change of church, or are thinking about it, first need to talk to a knowledgeable person and get more information before leaving.
I am happy with this election. The new pope is human and I hope he does a good job.
I agree completely with your comments. The “live and let live” statement should apply to everybody. It is wrong to force your beliefs on others even when you are right.
I was raised Catholic, and as I said, being Catholic is almost part of our national identity. I met a lot of priests and nuns who were amasing people, and really inspired me to be a good person. I could never become something else.
Also, protestants are very very rare here, the second Christian church is Orthodox and they are also against gay marriage.
Ok I see. Thanks for the explanation 🙂
That he’s against gay marriage, frankly, is a given; the likelihood that the college would elect someone of the opposite / neutral position was nil.
I’m a huge proponent of marriage equality, but at this point I’m honestly just glad the new pope is (purportedly) pro contraception, at least. The CC’s position on that issue, already affects too broad a swath of the world.
I’m very happy with him overall.
I’m progressive and irreligious, but this is a man who washed the feet of AIDS victims. He may not be into the gays, that’s unfortunate, but it could be so much worse…and it was, until Benedict stepped down.
It says something terrible about the Catholic church that we should get excited over a Pope who doesn’t condemn condoms in 2013, lol, but yay Pope Francis I!
I think he’s going to do a great job, he’s a humble man. I’ll fight him tooth and nail over gay marriage and adoption, but no one is perfect.
Why do you say he was born in Brazil? Jorge Bergoglio was born in Flores, Buenos Aires.
Also, he is not a fan of gay marriage, true. But he insisted upon baptizing children from divorced families, single parents and gay marriages (which as you said is legal here)when prists all over the country refused.
This is very interesting. I believe that a child should be baptized no matter any circumstances and glad he has led by example.
I absolutely agree with you
A Jesuit? yikes. That doesn’t bode well imo.
Otherwise, demanding the Catholic Church change its stance on homosexuality is unrealistic at best. It’s almost akin to asking the Hindus to reject reincarnation. It’s part of their spiritual belief system. I happen to disagree with it (anti-homosexuality) but they’re entitled to their beliefs. What I don’t appreciate is the Church’s involvment in secular politics.
Jesuits are actually the most pragmatic and least conservative of all of the Catholic branches.
I am familiar with the Jesuit order. My aunt was converted by a Jesuit, a friend of the family. I make no judgment calls on an individual but my feelings on the Order, its history and belief system are ambivalent at best. There’s a reason they’ve been likened to a “military organization, not a spiritual order”
Kaiser he also washed and kissed the feet of 12 AIDS victims… He is a humble man. So what if he doesn’t support gay marriage? It would be a total contradition of the catholic faith if he said he was. He isn’t promoting hate against gays though, so he’s ok to me & I’m not catholic. I love the papal election too! And when he appeared on that balcony,awesome! I was clapping so hard!
I like him, but I wouldn’t call John Paul II and Benedict XVI just some European dudes.
I’m thrilled with Pope Francis, he seems to be a good, decent and humble man.
For the record from “Catholic answers”:
Homosexual desires, however, are not in themselves sinful. People are subject to a wide variety of sinful desires over which they have little direct control, but these do not become sinful until a person acts upon them, either by acting out the desire or by encouraging the desire and deliberately engaging in fantasies about acting it out. People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.
Also:
The Protestant Clergy Sex Abuse Pattern
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/valerie-tarico/the-protestant-clergy-sex_b_740853.html
My gripe on sex abuse is paying out to mitiage prosecution. 1) violators need ot go to jail 2) People have accussed and then recanted – some after a “settlement”. Just let the courts take care of it.
Which means that the “cannibal cop” in NYC should not have been convicted, right?
This Catholic is very excited about this pick. Had immense feelings rise up upon seeing him for the first time. I had no such feeling when I saw Benedict a few years ago.
If we could start with a change in attitude towards birth control that would be great. I also am pleased with his focus on the poor.
He had the most humble dressings possible when he first entered. His name may also be chosen as a nod to the other Francis as well – Francis Xavier who I think had a vision about rebuilding the church. (Still trying to find confirmation of this – can anyone help me out?)
I hope he cleans house at the Vatican. So many good people in our faith to continue to let the bad ones spoil it for everyone.
“So many good people in our faith to continue to let the bad ones spoil it for everyone.”
THIS!!
It was St. Francis of Assisi who heard, “Francis, Go and rebuild my Church, which you can see has fallen into ruin.” 🙂 Love our new pope!
I’ll be super excited if he actually promotes condoms.
Africa has such a struggle with AIDS/disease and a hugely increasing Catholic population. Telling them it’s okay to use a condom would be awesome.
He seems decent
I don’t understand how they can just change their minds. So someone using birth control is a sin against god until a new old man stands up and says it’s okay, and then all of the sudden god doesn’t seem to mind? That makes sense to people? Seriously people of this church don’t see how totally nonsensical that is?
We understand that doctrine grows and develops over time, as our knowledge grows and the world changes. It is unlikely that any pope would stand up and say, “Okay, condoms for everyone!” But I can imagine a compromise where a Pope might say, “I advocate our original position: the ideal is that sex would only happen in safe, monogamous relationships that are open to life. However, reality is that it often doesn’t, and in those cases, we understand that someone might want to protect themselves.”
It’s not nonsensical — parents take that position all the time: “I’d rather you not have sex, but if you’re going to, here’s how to protect yourself.”
Kaiser we read you in South America!,
hello from Uruguay
I’m argentinian, so: he is friends with the right wing; wich is not as crazy as yours, but still.. horrible, intolerant, ignorant, corrupt people. Regarding his participation during the military dictatorship; a member of our current govermment (many, many of them/their family were tortured/dessapeared/killed) says Francis was a part of it; but there is no proof; and even Nobel price winner argentinian Pérez Esquivel says he wasn’t a part of it. Of course; the Church in general was indeed covering up and supporting this killings (wich includes stealing babies from tortured pregnant ladies, and throwing from a helicoter to the sea alive, naked, tied up protesters). So yeah, church is inherently racist,homophobic and sexist regardless if the Pope use to go to his job by public bus.
I am argentinean as well. Your comments are really misleading. There is no proof about Pope Francis being participant or even accomplice of the Proceso. Perez Esquivel nobel Prize Winner, Graciela Fernandez Meijide, human rights activist and investigator of the forced dissapearences during the Dictadura, confirm this. Even Alicia Oliveira, former Human Rights Secretary and a judge that was persecuted during the Dictadura confirms that Pope Francis helped her. This is only A difamation campaign from our argentinean government that have always been opposite to Cardenal Bergoglio (now Pope Francis). They have been opposite because he has always spoken about poverty and how corruption affects our country.
I am a Catholic and my faith in the Catholic religion (not God) has been corroded by the those in power in the Church. To say I am disappointed in these men is an understatement. They have not only failed miserably as Christians, but they have actually done harm to others to protect themselves.
Pope Francis has a hard road ahead of him if he is going to reform the curia and be brave enough to put victims of abuse before anyone or anything. Hopefully, he will think WWJD when making decisions in the future.
I don’t expect Pope Francis to “reform” any doctrine of the Church because he does not agree with the reform some Catholics would like to see happen. Even if he did, I don’t know that he could do it on his own. I do expect him to clean house internally and let some of these cardinals know he has a spine. I hope he goes into it with the attitude that he has nothing to lose, because that will let those under him realize he means business.
He wants us to pray for him, so I will and hopefully he will do right by the Church.
What´s with this “Francis 1”?
The “No.1” is for future use when the next Pope is called Francis. Actually he´s not “the first”, he´s the only one.
He´s just Pope Francis (without number). Same procedure with monarchs.
He isn’t the first Pope from South America though, just the first in a millennium…
He is actually the first Pope from Latin America, although of course there have been Popes not only from Europe, but also from Israel and Siria (mainly in the first and eight century).
Anyway, I’m so excited about the new Pope, both as a Catholic and a Latin American (I’m from Peru).
So maybe he set up his priests to the military junta and then “saved” them?
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/dailymusto/2013/03/an_argentine_ga.php
“But look on the bright side. With this new hater-in-a-gown, the church will become more obsolete and out of touch with evolving world views than ever. Just like the Republican party.”
I honestly don’t think that there will be a Pope in any of our lifetimes that will be openly accepting of gay marriage. There are certain parishes that may be more accepting but the Pope will never back that ish up.
I do find it extremely interesting that even non-Catholics follow the election of the Pope.
“I do find it extremely interesting that even non-Catholics follow the election of the Pope.”
I do too, I cannot figure out why they care. I always assumed that the views of the Pope would influence only Catholics.
like it or not, the pope is a world leader. he has a huge amount of influence. his views impact all of us, if only via a trickle down effect
I think the fact that there is such a large proportion of the world that identifies as Catholic means that we are all affected by the politics of the church to a certain degree. Plus, many of us who may not be Catholics ourselves still have close family and friends who are.
Also, it’s just kind of hard to escape the coverage and can be oddly fascinating even if you have no stake in it. As a Canadian, I don’t get to vote in the US elections and being as I had to give up my green card a few years ago, I am no longer directly affected by the outcome, but do I ever watch the shit out of the debates and election coverage. Many of our news channels devote as much or more time to the US elections than to our own provincial and federal elections. I see it as a similar thing.
Great input ladies (?)! I do agree with them, it just amazes that the Non Catholics get far more emotional/passionate about the whole thing than the Catholics themselves (including me).
Ouch, even more info on the new pope:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/14/in-the-time-of-the-jackboot-popes/
“Bergoglio twice refused to appear in court to answer questions about his role in the ‘Dirty War’. His replies to questions when he did appear in 2010 were evasive, especially over the issue of stolen babies, a subject which continues to haunt Argentina.”
and
“The junta grabbed power in March, 1976, but only after its leading figures met members of the church hierarchy for their blessing. At first the church denied the meetings took place but now acknowldege they did.”
Honestly, his position on gay marriage is the least of his problems.
I am glad he is South American and a jesuit.
I am not sure whether he regards himself Latin American. He was born from European parents and Argentines think of themselves as Europeans/South Americans. Many people question the relevancy of the Catholic Church, and many others hope the new pope will infuse his church with modern ideas or such. But how can he become more appealing to humanity without changing the church’s fundamental standing on so many issues like conception, abortion, homosexuality, and more.?
What I have heard is that he will inspire people that “there is a better way to be human.” By adopting a posture of humility, love, and sacrifice, we can show real love and offer real help without compromising our moral stances.
For example, the Catholic Church does not believe that real help for women comes in the form of abortion. We believe that really helping women comes with supporting them and encouraging men to love them. Most Catholic feminists advocate for a real, lifelong affirmation of women, which includes offering practical and emotional help to women facing pregnancy in difficult situations, rather than advocating abortions.
It is difficult, because certain groups of people have set up strict dichotomies: “If you really love me, you will support me in X.” The Church cannot support someone in doing something it believes to be wrong. But we can always act in love and humility.
All I’m doing is sending my blessings to the new pope
He was not born in Brazil as they whishes that !!!
Shut up, Wolfie! Hahahaha… I was really trying to be the big person, hahaha.
As a fellow Argentine, i wish the best of luck to the new Pope and hope he gives the Catholic Church a good name.
Pope Francis actually came 2nd when Pope Benedict XVI was elected, so Papacy was probably meant to be for him in the long run.
I don’t want to get into politics here, but probably his worst enemies are going to be those within the Argentine government itself.
It’s a well-known fact in Buenos Aires that the relationship between Archbishop Jorge Bergoglio and President Cristina Kirchner has always been nothing but frosty at best.
He seems like a decent and humble man, despite his views on gay marriage and homosexuality. But honestly that is to be expected. Benedict XVI picked most of the cardinals that made up the papal conclave who then voted for Francis I, so we knew we were going to get a conservative guy.
I read a very interesting article on Spanish HuffPo that gave more background about Francis. There is some shady stuff in Francis’s past when it comes to the dictatorship in Argentina. Also things have been pretty tense between him and Christina Kirchner, the current president of Argentina. He basically said legalizing gay marriage was demonic, or something along those lines. So I think he and Kirchner have gone out of their way to avoid each other. Her congratulations message was less enthusastic than Obama’s, but it seems that she is going to the Mass on March 19th at the Vatican which is the formal introduction of Francis as pope.
I heard in the radio that the accusations were more a revenge of the Kirchner government because he criticized them often. A Peace Nobel price from Argentina who knows the situation well has defended him.
http://www.elmundo.es/america/2013/03/14/argentina/1363278494.html
Bergoglio also has a strong view point in regards to social issues, and accused the Kirchner government for broadening the gap between classes, benefiting the rich and ignoring the social crisis that has been escalating in Argentina for many years.
As someone who was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from preschool until 12th grade, I have seen it all. Everyone I went to school with with the exception of one or two diehards are non-practicing right now. We are all in our early 30’s now. Organized religion as a whole I found a difficult pill to swallow once went to college and became more tolerant of others that were far different from me. I know this scares republicans and religious folks but its the truth. The only people in my age group who are very religious are those who didn’t seem to go to college or experience life outside of their religious bubble. I’d like to see organized religion relate to people in my age group, but I cannot see that happening in the near future. I wonder once all the elderly people die off, what religion will look like.
Can someone please explain to me why it is okay that the Catholic Church still protects priests who have sexually abused children? Why haven’t the abuse cases and cover-up been handled like other sexual abuse cases (ie Penn State) ?I genuinely don’t understand.
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s okay. Some bishops have been more aggressive in dealing with the problem, but I don’t know of a single Catholic who thinks the coverup was okay.
That said, the issue was complex: many bishops handled the issue according to psychologists’ recommendations at the time, which have evolved in the last thirty or so years (most of the cases were in the 1960s-1980s). And in many cases, it wasn’t a coverup, it was the Church keeping with its tradition of handling discipline internally, not involving external law. Also, the issue is incredibly complex: some of the priests were clearly guilty of disgusting, damnable acts with children; others were involved in homosexual relationships with post-pubsecent young men, age 16 or 17. Finally, the issue is hardly limited to Catholics: nearly 60 percent of clergy sexual abuse cases in the US are with Protestant ministers, not Catholics.
I am not, in any way, defending the truly awful ways priests (and their supervisors) hurt people and abused the trust placed in them. Some of the stories I’ve heard turn my stomach. Personally, I testified against two priests who had inappropriate relationships with teenage boys. And my reaction is the same as about every Catholic I know: horrified, disgusted, hoping that things will change, and understanding that the issue is very, very complex.
The Catholic Church will officially change its teachings on any issue, including practicing gays and lesbians, only when the vast majority of Catholics change their beliefs and are open about it. There are certainly “gay-friendly” parishes and Catholic groups already. It’s actually more of a trickle-up church than you might think. People will use the excuse that they can’t do such and such because the Church says so, but they’re just being lazy. Catholics do follow their own conscience when it’s important to them. The biggest impediment to birth control isn’t the Vatican – it’s male attitudes in many cultures. Notice how much smaller Catholic family sizes have become in the US – that’s no accident. The fact that this pope openly encourages condom use even just for disease control is a huge step forward. My bet is that it all will be a non-issue within a couple of decades if not sooner. The only real religious problem with birth control is that some methods are potentially abortifacient. That runs deeper, consistent with the belief that human life and right to live begins at conception – which interestingly enough is a relatively recent idea in the Catholic Church (check attitudes in the 19th Century). Anyway, condoms don’t have that problem. The idea that every act of intercourse must be open to conception pretty much bit the dust long ago, it’s so inconsistent with biology and reality.
I remember an interview with a US Catholic bishop back in the 1980s or thereabouts – he was asked about female priests. He said he guessed a retired bishop with nothing to lose would do it first. He speculated that maybe it had already been done in secret (all you need is the proper lineage, so to speak, to ordain valid priests – permission of the Vatican is not necessary). The thought didn’t bother him at all, male priesthood is a longstanding custom but not actually a matter of faith. The same could happen, of course, with ordained married men (or women). The first official married Catholic priests came in via conversion of some Episcopalian priests, since the line of Episcopalian bishops is considered unbroken by Catholics despite that little spat over pope or no pope… Anyway, things do move forward in their own time. A South American pope will be especially aware of the problem of a priest shortage because of the current official celibacy requirement (more honored in the breach than in the observance in many cultures). That will eventually be dropped some day, it’s strong custom but not actually essential. It’s a complicated church.
One note, jwoolman: married Catholic priests have always existed, mostly in the Eastern Rite Catholic churches. The matter of celibacy is considered a matter of discipline, not doctrine. Rules requiring celibacy were based on two things:
1) Jesus’ (and St. Paul’s) declaration that it is better to remain unmarried in order to focus completely on God
2) protection against nepotism and inheritance laws when it came to church property and positions
Given that concerns about nepotism have largely been eliminated, yes, I could see the Church, over time, loosening its requirement for the Roman Catholic Church, but still recommending celibacy (and requiring it for bishops, etc, as the Eastern churches do).
Very true. Quite a few eastern catholic priests in my town are married.
As a proud Hoya, woooooooooooo jesuits!!!!