Every year, People Magazine sits down with the President and First Lady around Christmas. It’s an annual thing, and every POTUS & FLOTUS does it. Sometimes the interviews get political, but for the most part, it’s just a reflection on the year, some cultural stuff, and a chance for the president and first lady to remind everyone that they’re human beings and they’re a family. This year’s interview with Barack and Michelle Obama made some news because President Obama (I’ll refer to him as BO from here on out) answered some questions about the “I Can’t Breathe” protests, the Ferguson protests, and being black in America. BO and MO also talked about some cultural stuff, and I can’t help but think this is the news we should be focused on! Apparently, MO preferred Gone Girl the book to the movie. And BO likes Boyhood.
BO on LeBron James wearing an “I Can’t Breathe” t-shirt: “I think LeBron did the right thing. We forget the role that Muhammad Ali, Arthur Ashe and Bill Russell played in raising consciousness. I’d like to see more athletes do that – not just around the issue, but around a range of issues.”
BO’s favorite movie: “Boyhood was a great movie. That, I think, was my favorite movie this year.”
MO’s favorite book: “I’ve read others, but since I read Gone Girl a couple summers ago, which is one of my favorites. The book is much better than the movie.”
MO on Frozen: “I really miss the fact that I used to use my kids as an excuse to see all the Disney movies and now I beg them and they won’t go.”
BO on his girls: “Nowadays the three of them are in their Beyonce world.”
[From People Magazine, print edition]
I wonder if it stings Ben Affleck and David Fincher when MO says the book was better than the film? It should. The book was much more Amy-focused and then Fincher made the movie so Nick-focused. But I do think it’s cool that MO liked the book! And yes, MO and her daughters are obsessed with all things Beysus. Absolutely! Here’s more of the serious side of the People interview:
The Obamas open up about raising their daughters, the impact of stereotypes, and what’s on the POTUS dance party playlist. The protective bubble that comes with the presidency – the armored limo, the Secret Service detail, the White House – shields Barack and Michelle Obama from a lot of unpleasantness. But their encounters with racial prejudice aren’t as far in the past as one might expect. And they obviously still sting.
“I think people forget that we’ve lived in the White House for six years,” the first lady told PEOPLE, laughing wryly, along with her husband, at the assumption that the first family has been largely insulated from coming face-to-face with racism.
“Before that, Barack Obama was a black man that lived on the South Side of Chicago, who had his share of troubles catching cabs,” Mrs. Obama said in the Dec. 10 interview appearing in the new issue of PEOPLE. “I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.”
In a 30-minute conversation, the president and Mrs. Obama candidly added their stories to the national discussion of race and racial profiling that was sparked by the deaths of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and Eric Garner in Staten Island, New York.
“There’s no black male my age, who’s a professional, who hasn’t come out of a restaurant and is waiting for their car and somebody didn’t hand them their car keys,” said the president, adding that, yes, it had happened to him. Mrs. Obama recalled another incident: “He was wearing a tuxedo at a black-tie dinner, and somebody asked him to get coffee.”
Things have gotten better, both Obamas agreed, but there’s still more progress to be made.
“The small irritations or indignities that we experience are nothing compared to what a previous generation experienced,” President Obama said. “It’s one thing for me to be mistaken for a waiter at a gala. It’s another thing for my son to be mistaken for a robber and to be handcuffed, or worse, if he happens to be walking down the street and is dressed the way teenagers dress.”
I would ask MO’s help to reach something on a high self, not because she’s black but because she’s so TALL. Sometimes it’s not a racial thing. Sometimes it’s “let me find a tall person to reach this top shelf.” As for the rest of it… yep. I’m not going to get into some in-depth discussion about race, but I like that BO isn’t shying away from having those conversations. We still need to talk about it. Our society is not post-racial.
Photos courtesy of People Magazine, Instagram, WENN.
I loved the book. Have not seen the movie yet.
Have you read Dark Places? That’s my favorite of her 3 novels. If you like creepy background music then yes, you will like Gone Girl the movie.
I have read Dark Places and Gone Girl. I liked both, page turners both of them, but I hate the endings of both of them. Am I alone in feeling they lose steam at the end and felt rushed.
I will check out Dark Places. Thanks!
Um… I hate to ask, but is BO as unfortunate a set of initials stateside as it is this side of the Pond?
I sympathise with MO about kids growing up and turning up their noses at all the child-related things you secretly love (mine have recently outgrown Roald Dahl, which I find very depressing).
Are you saying that Barack Obama stinks, Sixer? 😉
Yes. It is. And having my 12 year old self alive and well within me, I did giggle.
Sixer, my canary in Somerset, I was pondering the wisdom of asking the same question and risking offence…..
🙂
Oh, I did reply but it didn’t come through. All my posts have to go through moderation, dontchaknow.
Yes. I was wondering if it was lost in translation.
The initials carry the same connotation stateside.
WHAAAT? Sixer, tell them, that I, as a 20 year old STILL read “The Witches”. That is the creepiest thing I’ve read in a looong time. And I STILL get the creepy feeling in my stomach when they show off their long fingernails/claws, their shoes, and their wigs….I’ll never forget the head Witch. “You may remoof your vigs! Get some air on your spotty scalps!”….especially her face, it looked like maggots had crawled inside of her and had a field day.
the witches is amazing, high quality is ageless
Oh, the girls are growing up! Look how pretty they are. I loved having children in the White House again.
Yes, lovely girls. When Obama first took office, my sons were fascinated with them, so envious that they got to live in The White House. It was sweet.
They are indeed very pretty girls. I noticed that they were dressed very nicely for the White House Christmas party. That lady who criticized their outfits at a previous event was out of line, but I do think their current fashion is more appropriate for Presidential daughters. This is a dignified family, and I like to see their daughters looking dignified as well.
Yes, they are becoming stunning young women. I can’t believe how fast they’ve grown up – makes me feel old!
They are both gorgeous and stylish
Movies almost never do justice to a book.
The Princess Bride is one exception. Now someone name another.
Jaws and The Godfather. The books were atrocious; the movies are classics.
Last of the Mohicans…but I didn’t think that was a very good book. Lots of racism and sexism.
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest?
Catch-22?
(Bit obvious, sorry).
Lolita?
I think the best adaptations often come from children’s books or novellas, where there’s less to be cut (novellas) or a more direct narrative to lift (children’t books).
To Kill a Mockingbird?
Howl’s Moving Castle?
Children of Men?
TKAM was wonderful as a book and as a movie.
The Shining
I agree with Sixer about To Kill a Mockingbird. I also think Gone With the Wind was a better movie than book.
Very true, imo and the fact that so much gets edited out for time is frustrating because while I’m watching the movie I catalog in my head all the differences. The only movies that were enjoyable for me despite the editing were the Harry Potter movies.
+1 for Gone With the Wind. The book is awful. The movie is a classic.
Fight Club came very, very close, IMO.
Also Scott Pilgrim vs The World, but I don’t know if graphic novels count?
I know some people will say Silence of the Lambs. However, I thought the book was MUCH better than the movie. Although I think the Red Dragon movie was better than the book. Go figure.
Fight club.
wait I misread that. fight club the book sucked compared to the movie.
Jaya: Books and films are different mediums. You shouldn’t expect a film to reflect the book in exact terms. They play differently. The most boring book to film adaptations are those where the film is a chapter by chapter rendering of the book.
Blade Runner…
No Country for Old Men. The movie was definitely superior to the book. So was Let The Right One In. (The Original, NOT the remake).
The only fairly recent one that comes to mind is The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, the original version (never saw the Fincher version).
Yes, they did a good job on that. Was that a Swedish film? Did they ever follow up with the other books?
Oh good one, I couldn’t get into the books at all, but Noomi crushed it in the originals.
@GoodNames, yep it’s a Swedish trilogy and really good. Let’s drink vodka and binge watch.
The books were probably not anything I would have read on my own but my aunt pressed them on me and I felt obligated to read them. They were kinda messy but something about the dark, wintry mood sucked me in and I thought the Swedish movies captured that mood very well.
The Swedish movie trilogy is great, although I thought the English language version was also watchable. What I don’t like is that they changed the original title from Men who hate women to Girl with a dragon tattoo. That was lame considering the plot.
I’ve only seen the Swedish version of the movie and I thought it was okay, but nothing compared to the book. Man, that was an awesome trilogy in my opinion.
And I agree with MO, Gone Girl the book was awesome, the movie was good but it just didn’t compare to the psychological creepiness and manipulation of the book version of Amy.
LET THE RIGHT ONE IN (original version)
GNAT: yes they did, with all 3.
(About the Godfather which you maybe edited off your list) IMO that’s one of the rare times that the movie is much much better than the book. The novel reads like really dated pulp whereas the movie is timeless.
Thanks, LAK. Were the second two as good as the first one, if you saw them?
I LOVED that movie. Le sigh.
Luca76; yes I edited it off, but I will restore it.
THE GODFATHER
GONE WITH THE WIND
NIGHTWATCH/DAYWATCH ( Russian horror films)
And for my money, all films adapted from Anita Loos books eg GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES.
GNAT: yes, but I must admit that I am going through a Scandinavian flims love fest, so i’m probably going to like a lot of their output.
I think The Shining is as good as the book eventhough they are very different it doesn’t really ‘do justice’ it just creates something so creepy and engrossing that it stands as a masterpiece.
Yeah that movie was stand alone fantastic.
ha! just mentioned that above, and I agree that both were good but they were different.
Interesting fact I recently learned — in a recent radio interview with Stephen King, on Fresh Air I think, said he absolutely hated Kubrick’s interpretation. I had no idea.
@Esmom yes he hated it he even tried to remake his own version as a TV movie years ago.
The Shining movie adaptation was good, but compared to the novel and most of what Stephen King was writing during that period, pfffft…. I was a 4th grader in the ’80s who secretly read “Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption” under the bedcovers at night with a flashlight stolen from under the kitchen sink. I’d stolen (aka borrowed) a S King paperback novel from my much-older sisters called “Different Strokes”. I grew up on Stephen King, beginning the 3rd grade. I’m sorry to see what they did with most of his book to movie adaptations (excepting Carrie, Shawshank Redemption, It, Pet Cemetery {bleh but the original story was so damn scary even the movie scared the crap out of me} and so many other book to screenplay adaptations.
Right on Kaiser – I am sick and tired of people pulling the race card on every single thing.
I been mistaken for shop worker, asked for stuff because I am tall etc I don’t go around claiming its racism because I am indian.
I will say it again – when will people step on and protest on a national level for Mexicans, Asians, whites and not only for blacks? I don’t care about any form of race – if there has been done an injustice – you raise your voice.
There have been tons of Mexican American protests over discrimination and fighting for immigration reform on a national level. If any other people feel strongly they have been discriminated against they should protest. The fact that people of all colors find the current round of racial profiling and sanctioned police murder of black people appalling because it is so extreme as to be outrageous is not taking away from other groups of people. The Civil Rights movement helped all Americans. It took its inspiration from an Indian man (Gandhi) and it inspired tactics used Women’s Rights groups, Anti-war Groups, Gay Rights etc. Fighting for justice and calling out abuse isn’t playing a race card.
I am sorry – I am from UK and I haven’t heard about any form of protests for other races. Since I don’t see any reason for you to lie – I will apologize for that part.
However – I have been in situations where some colleageus say something funny and wasn’t racist at all and yet some people got offended and claimed it was racist.
We now live in a world where people are too afraid to say anything in case people accuse them of racism.
I am not saying racism doesn’t exists or anything like that. What I am saying is that there are people who use the race card for everything.
“I have been in situations where some colleageus say something funny and wasn’t racist at all and yet some people got offended and claimed it was racist.”
Wasn’t racist TO YOU.
Generally speaking, if one or two people find something racist, then it’s safe to say A LOT of people will find that comment racist.
A good rule of thumb: if you’re not sure whether something is racist or not, it probably is. In other words, if you have to ask yourself, it’s probably better to just NOT say it.
I mean, is it that big of a crime that people can’t make racist jokes? They’re never f*cking funny anyway. Why is it such a big deal to have to refrain from stereotypes and generalizations?
And anytime you use the term “race card” you’re automatically diminishing a PoC’s experience–you’re essentially saying that what they’re feeling isn’t real.
You can sit there and say “I am not saying racism doesn’t exists” but yes, you ARE saying that insidious racism or casual racism do not exist, whether you want to admit it or not.
“A good rule of thumb: if you’re not sure whether something is racist or not, it probably is. In other words, if you have to ask yourself, it’s probably better to just NOT say it.” Oh my.
Yeah, moodgirl: “OH MY, I might have to actually exercise sensitivity towards others. Oh noes!!! I am so put out by all the effort this requires of me.”
Sigh.
moodgirl, feel free to spew any non-PC potentially racist joke you want. it’s pretty clear you’re not very sensitive to anyone’s experiences but your own.
I suggest you visit Sylvia’s in Harlem. and, while dining, make sure you tell some “not sure if it’s racist” and/or “not racist to ME” kind of jokes. I’m sure you’ll just have everyone in stitches.
Mood girl, oh my? If you feel something you say might hurt someone’s feelings, do you say it anyway? Probably you do, and you probably defend yourself by saying you’re “just honest” but the rest of us try to keep it civil.
Right on Kitten… thank you.
Kitten, as usual, very well said!
Maya, if you look at the recent protests, it is ALL types of Americans standing up against inequality and abuse of police power. As a white American I know that the facts say: black Americans are more likely to be stopped by police, searched by police, arrested by police, charged with a crime and sentenced to a longer prison term than white Americans, even if they do the exact same thing. Why shouldn’t people stand up against that?
So Kitten, if you think it but don’t say it, are you a racist? u r a bucket of fun!
We weren’t there when the old lady asked for help. We don’t know the tone or the language she used; maybe MO perceived it as condescending. That said, Target workers are pretty easy to pick out: they all wear the same red shirts and beige trousers. It could be that the old lady just thought Michelle was a fellow shopper. But even if her tone was inappropriate, this is more of a ‘microagression’ – it’s hardly on the level of what happened to Eric Gardner or Tamir Rice.
I am tall and get asked for help all the time – what is there to complain about? Sometimes we create our own problems. If MO didn’t want to be bothered she should have stayed in the White House but she just needed something to talk about. These two love to be seen.
I am also asked to get stuff of the top shelf all the time. Hell, my mom volunteers me to get stuff for other people when we’re out shopping. And if I’m not with her, she’ll ask whatever tall person she can find to get something for her because she’s a short stack. She’s 5’3″ and her shortest child is 5’10”.
I also kind of got the impression MO was complaining because no one offered to assist her while she was shopping. Did anyone else get that sense? It’s Target not Saks. They don’t exactly wander around offering to help shoppers. Regardless of their color. If you need help, you have to track someone down and ask them. And good luck finding someone. Sometimes I feel like I could wander the store for days trying to find a sales associate.
“If MO didn’t want to be bothered she should have stayed in the White House”
yeah, shame on her for not knowing her place and actually wanting to go outside.
Actually MO mentioned this exact transaction at an earlier time – and she spoke of how nice it was to get out and meet people and be treated just like everyone else.
This is what she said on David Letterman:
“I thought I was undercover. I have to tell you something about this trip though. No one knew that was me because a woman actually walked up to me, right? I was in the detergent aisle, and she said — I kid you not — she said, ‘Excuse me, I just have to ask you something,’ and I thought, ‘Oh, cover’s blown.’ She said, ‘Can you reach on that shelf and hand me the detergent?’ I kid you not…And the only thing she said — I reached up, ’cause she was short, and I reached up, pulled it down — she said, ‘Well, you didn’t have to make it look so easy.’ That was my interaction. I felt so good. … She had no idea who I was. I thought, as soon as she walked up — I was with my assistant, and I said, ‘This is it, it’s over. We’re going to have to leave.’ She just needed the detergent.”
Well put, Maya. FLOTUS comes across as believing that she is too good to help another woman reach something on a shelf.
^THIS^
What a glorious life you lead where you are not a victim of racism. It however does NOT give you the right to invalidate any other race’s experiences.
But we can’t just dimiss her claim because we weren’t there. Maybe it was the tone or attitude of the woman that caused MO to feel like it might have been racist.
Just give the lady what she asked for and move on. MO is supposed to be educated, she should know that one can not absorb every single perceived slight in life. She was just looking for something to talk about. If she didn’t want to help the lady get a Secret Service agent do it.
“MO is supposed to be educated, she should know that one can not absorb every single perceived slight in life”
Why the need to invalidate her experience?
…And what does “education” have to do with racism? Because the First Lady went to Princeton and Harvard Law, she should ignore casual racism? Huh???
Moodgirl, I think you missed the point. She gave an example of a “small indignity” that she experienced — which all add up to people of color — but she hardly seems to be whining about it.
We need to “invalidate her experience” to offer a more balanced view, in light of the prominence that she receives.
Exactly. Also, I am taller than MO and white, with a friendly, open face, given to making eye contact and smiling. I live in the Midwest, where people are not opposed to greeting strangers. No one EVER asks me to assist them with items on high shelves, as they might a store clerk.
A more balanced view of “her experience”?
How is that possible? It’s HER experience, not yours.
You don’t have to understand it, relate to it, or like it but that won’t change her personal truth.
I didn’t miss the point. So someone asking you to reach something in a Target is a “small indignity”? Come on. Get real. She is too good to help someone in a store without feeling slighted? And yes, she is whining about it because she spoke about it.
If I see someone trying to reach or lift beyond their ability I offer help, I don’t wait for them to ask. Grow up. I guess she would have problems holding a door for an older person without feeling put upon. They have bigger problems than I thought and that is saying something.
“So someone asking you to reach something in a Target is a “small indignity”?
NO, again you’re missing the point…assuming someone is an employee because that person is black is a “small indignity”.
and MO is not the only person it happens to. I’ve read a couple of pieces in the past few days that recount this exact thing, except that the person making the assumption was MUCH more rude to the other person (of color). there was no “do you work here?” or “could you help me?” it was “find me a size medium in this color”…a COMMAND, not a request.
I suspect you keep twisting what happened and deliberately missing MO’s point because of pre-existing biases. that is to say, I don’t think you’ll ever see her point because you think what she’s saying doesn’t happen.
How do you know what the woman assumed? Did she mistake MO for a Target employee or was she short, couldn’t reach the shelf and asked the first person she saw for help? Perceived racism. Internalized racism. Some people ALWAYS see racism because they are looking for it. If you are always searching for something you will always find it.
My neighbor claims that every person who makes a right turn on red in front of her – even at night when they couldn’t possibly know she is black – does so because she is black and intentionally disrespects her. She is always angry. For nothing.
I concentrate on the big stuff. Shooting someone in the street or choking a man for selling cigarettes on the street corner? Big stuff. Being asked to help someone in a store? Please.
“How do you know what the woman assumed? Did she mistake MO for a Target employee or was she short, couldn’t reach the shelf and asked the first person she saw for help?”
and since WE ALL DON’T KNOW, why is it that you are SO quick to not believe MO? this was HER experience. she’s a smart woman who likely has experienced all levels of racism throughout her life, both overt and indirect. I’d trust HER interpretation of this incident MUCH MORE than yours.
regarding your neighbor, I understand because I’ve also met some people like that. however, in my experience, the large majority of the black population does NOT “go looking” for racism because they experience it EVERY DAY.
So because your black neighbor *may* see racism when it is not there, you make the assumption that every black person must be lying about circumstances where they have experienced racism?
“I concentrate on the big stuff”
You say that as if you can insulate the incidents of internalized or insidious racism from incidents like Eric Garner’s death, when the truth is that insidious racism leads to systemic racism leads to incidents like Garner’s death. I know it would be convenient for us white folks to be able to compartmentalize different types of racism but it just doesn’t work like that.
” I know it would be convenient for us white folks to be able to compartmentalize different types of racism but it just doesn’t work like that.”
You have made ANOTHER assumption – that I am white.
Yep, I absolutely made that assumption and I stand by it because I don’t believe any PoC would defend racism as vociferously as you have on this thread.
Honestly, I have to say I found myself slightly scratching my head over the way Mrs O relates this incident and am confused over what it was that made her feel it was race-related. Going by her own words:
“Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her.”
Her being seen as someone helpful is not insulting so what point is she making here? That the woman concerned failed to recognise her as MO? That she assumed she was an employee? That she just saw her as a fellow shopper who could reach a shelf that she couldn’t?
In short, I don’t know what her grievance in this instance is and wish she’d clarified it. I’m not for one second suggesting she was making a big deal over nothing – in fact, I’m 100% confident she was not – I’m just looking for clarity in terms of what it was that impacted with her on this occasion that stayed with her to the degree that it’s top of her list when asked about encounters with racial prejudice.
I’m guessing she felt like the woman singled her out because she was black–Michelle O. would have to clarify more. Or maybe there was a bunch of people around, and only Michelle was asked to grab it. Maybe there was a black clerk out and about, and the woman asked her because she ‘confused’ her with the employee.
You wouldn’t believe how often that happens. Last weekend I went with my dad to his work’s Christmas party. When we got in, everyone thought I was married to him, i.e. everyone thought I was my mom. Now, we do look alike–but she’s dark skinned, and I am pale as a ghost. My mom WENT to this same Christmas party the year before. And as a matter of fact, the year before my mom went, my older sister–who looks like the typical Italian girl (black wavy hair, hazel-green eyes), went with him. And the year when my mom went, they all thought she had been there, as my dad’s wife, last year.
You have three women, all black/mixed race, all have different drastically different body weights, skin tones, hair type and style–yet for three years straight, EVERYONE (except for 1-2 people) thinks we’re the same woman.
Just like when my older sister’s BOSS approached my mom in the post office, and started talking to her about some work my sister had to do–and didn’t realize that it was my mom. They are not even the same skin color, and don’t even have the same face. Yet this woman ‘confused’ my mom with my sister.
So yeah, I get what Michelle’s saying. It’s a feeling of being marginalized, and not even being noticed.
@kitten – You stand by your assumption that I am white even though you have never met me? So you have met every person of color and you know how they think? Girl, you have gone over the hedge. You sound silly.
If I were FLOTUS, with an Ivy League education, I would think about running for POTUS. I would never admit that a woman at Target threw me off my game. This is what all POCs have to learn – keep your eyes on the prize and don’t let the small stuff get you down.
I get asked for help from people all the time and I help if I can because we are all human. I don’t care if they are black, white, purple, whatever. I am honored because I try to be friendly and approachable. I don’t see small instances of racism because I don’t look for it. I just smile and get to class on time so I can graduate with my PhD. I am successfull because I don’t sweat the small stuff. I do what I can to help, smile and keep moving.
“This is what all POCs have to learn – keep your eyes on the prize and don’t let the small stuff get you down. ”
Uh yup. Most DEFINITELY a white person.
“I don’t care if they are black, white, purple, whatever.”
How incredibly kind of you for helping people regardless of their race.
“I am successfull because I don’t sweat the small stuff.”
Uh-huh, and don’t forget privilege.
No offense, but I don’t think you’re in a position to accuse others of sounding silly.
Yeah, moodgirl, you just let everything roll off your back and keep smiling and being pleasant, not sweating the small stuff. Except everything you have posted here is petty, mean – spirited, presumptuous and condescending. Maybe a different personality comes out when you’re in Target.
Moodgirl, darling, you got the lingo wrong. Nobody in an actual doctoral program talks about ‘graduating’ with a PhD. But go ahead and pretend you’re working towards one. Just don’t pretend you’re not white.
Sorry to slow your roll but….NOT WHITE.
The university has three graduating divisions that must be declared – under, master and doctoral.
Sure sure sure…and I ride a unicorn to work every day and live on a cloud because I can be anything I want to be in Magical Internet Land.
PhD, huh?…
” I would never admit that a woman at Target threw me off my game. This is what all POCs have to learn – keep your eyes on the prize and don’t let the small stuff get you down.”
except that’s not what she said. she didn’t say that she was “thrown” at all. what she said was “Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.” did you catch that? it happens all the time, it doesn’t throw her; she just makes a note that it happened, it’s happened before, and it will (likely) happen again. your stance on not letting small stuff get you down and keeping your eyes on the prize reminds me of what the white boss man will tell the black man…”be a good Uncle Tom and don’t make waves and you’ll be fine.” don’t get uppity…don’t speak up for yourself if you feel you’re being marginalized because of your skin color. just let that racism roll off your back (and, therefore, allow it to continue).
ETA: Kitty, you have a UNICORN? why am I only now finding this out?!
@Doofus-yup! I have an extra one for you if you want 😉
And YES to what you said. I’ll admit that I let myself get trolled with this one but this is like the white person version of mansplaining: telling black people how they should feel and making them prove that their experience with racism was “real” racism and not black folks just being “uppity”.
Whitesplaining? Does that term exist? If not, I’m coining it.
If Michelle Obama says she experienced racism, I’m not gonna tell her she didn’t. She knows more than I do as I personally have never experienced racism.
Why not just take the First Lady’s word at face value?
Why not just listen to her experience and try to see where she’s coming from instead of rushing to judgment?
Having read from moodgirl in other posts, I’m reasonably sure she’s not lying about not being white.
And why is that being thrown around as an insult anyway? Disagree all you want with what she’s saying, but don’t accuse her of lying and calling her “white” as a slur.
Sorry if I offended you Sighs and white is not an insult but I urge you to read through the rest of the comments he/she made here.
PoC, white, Asian, other, whatever–the underlying ignorance of his/her comments is pretty difficult to ignore.
I’ve also been asked to grab something off a grocery shelf before and of course that is not an automatic example of racism, but on a cumulative level, being treated like the help, is something that as a white person I will never understand.
And in the larger context of the interview, this was what Mrs. Obama was discussing, not an isolated incident, but repetitive incidents. It’s her experience and she shouldn’t have to justify her feelings about it.
I just want to say @Kitten +1000 . Why don’t people realise the power of IMPLICIT BIAS (there’s real science out there but for some pop science: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice )? That’s why “small” invalidations are just as damaging and potent – they come from the same source. Our brains are implicitly biased because our society is, and implicit bias is why people with privilege may, quite literally, not be able to imagine what it is like not to have it. Until we realise this nothing will change. And whitesplaining, awesome. There are definitely some people getting PhDs in that.
I graduated from an HBCU and have master degrees from both HBCU and non. My current work is at a non. I belong to a black sorority. Ninety nine percent of my friends are black. I work with black people who graduated both HBCUs and non. But I need kitten to tell me how to recognize racism and live my life as a non white person. Really. Amazing. A know it all who has never walked in shoes other than her own perceives to know the secrets of life for people unlike her. A person who has to post a link about racism to get her point across. A person who wishes to share her anger about a subject she has never experienced and demands that other people participate in the same. As if no one could recognize it but her. Typical.
My mentor, a black male who graduated from a HBCU in Alabama and lived through and participated in the civil rights movement, explained it best: Small minds waste time on small things. Only a fool with a small mind would complain about a person asking for help at a store. And only fools would debate what nefarious deeds the woman who asked for help had in mind. In the end it doesn’t really matter. You do what you can to help and move on.
For people with a brain in their head, don’t look for racism that doesn’t exist. Probably half of my co-workers are non-white. Only one did not think that MO was an idiot from even bringing this up. The majority felt that she was playing the race card, which she and BO have a tendency to do. If I had a Harvard education and was asked that obviously loaded question I would have answered that, while racism is alive and well, I hadn’t really encountered anything that really upset me. I would never in my lifetime admit that a woman upset me at a Target by asking for help reaching an item. Even my mother thought this was petty. Yeah, my mother who went through a segregated school system thought MO was petty and stupid for bring this up. My bff who is black thinks MO was just being silly.
You can wallow in your anger at every perceived slight in life or you can give people the benefit of the doubt. I prefer the benefit of the doubt. I really don’t like militants who carry grudges that are not theirs to carry and spend time trying to stir the pot. kitten.
“Small minds waste time on small things.”
Yes….like writing paragraphs on why a person who has experienced racism has no grounds to feel that way.
One must be able to recognize racism in order to properly react to it. It’s not a game you play in your head.
Maya, I grew up in apartheid South Africa. When, you come from countries with deeply entrenched racial policies like South Africa or with a history of slavery like the US, race pervades everything sometimes. You can say people are being too sensitive but unless you lived through the horror and walked in the shoes of the people who experienced it, you have no right to pass judgement on what we should and should not be sensitive about. In one way, it is a form of vigilance, to ensure we never have to go through that again. Would you ask a Jewish person not to play the Holocust card at any sign of anti Semitism?
From Charles Blow’s New York Times column today:
“All we know is that Mrs. Obama questions the encounter and has misgivings about it. For her, it’s a feeling. Others might hear this story and feel that Mrs. Obama possibly overreacted or misconstrued the meaning of the request.
But that is, in part, what racial discussions come down to: feelings. These feelings are, of course, informed by facts, experiences, conditioning and culture, but the feelings are what linger, questions of motive and malice hanging in the air like the stench of rotting meat, knotting the stomach and chilling the skin.
As Maya Angelou once put it: “I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.””
So, yes, maybe she was just tall enough to reach, but Michelle Obama has had a lifetime of encounters with people and in this case, she came away from the experience feeling like her race came into play. The end.
Good points.
Something that happened in the experience has stuck with her, but she’s only given a bit of the information, so we don’t know the full story. But obviously it was something, for it to come to mind again in this discussion.
Racism in UK is different from racism in america.
At the very least, we can have a conversation about racism in the UK that can’t happen in america. There are many things that we don’t appreciate as racism which Americans take to be racism.
That’s not to chastise Americans. It’s a different experience born of a different history.
How is racism different in the uk? Racism is racism. There have been race riots. Stephen Lawrence was killed because of his race. Blatant racism at many football(soccer) games. What’s different?
FingerBinger: racism is racism AND it is different in the UK. And please don’t tell me about Stephen Lawrence since I lived through that as well as the 80s race riots.
I am frequently reminded of my race every time I set foot in america. Something that doesn’t happen here or even those countries that have very few other non white people.
We’ve don’t have internalised racial politics which make it impossible to talk about race without fearing one might cause offense, something that frequently happens in America eg I wouldn’t assume racial profiling if the same incident happened to me as MO. However, if I was in America, I definitely would.
As for the Stephen Lawrence murder, it might shock you to learn that the leading paper in bringing his killers to justice is the very sexist, misogynist and xenophobic daily mail. They ran a ten year campaign to that end.
And one of the unfortunate outcomes of the initial enquiry into the police handling of that case, ie that the police are institutionally racist was the police reversed all their policies to extent that a ring of sexual predators from an Asian background were allowed to molest white children for over a decade because the police were afarid of being labelled racist again and so looked the other way.
As for the most recent riots, it’s true that it was sparked by the police killing of an unmarked black man, but he was a known gangster, and under surveillance. It was thought he was armed, but the resulting riots very quickly degenerated into looting frenzy by people of all racial background.
THANK YOU!!!
“Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.”
I’m white, I’m female and a cop. I was in Walmart one time shopping in uniform and was asked where something was. I said “I don’t know”, “Oh, I’m sorry. I thought you worked here.”
Wtf??? I was in the local Walmart wearing the local police uniform.
seriously-you’re still using the term race card? the 2000s called and they want their outdated cloaked ignorant bigotry term back
POTUS and FLOTUS, they are just like us! As a foreigner i love reading these things. “What is inside of POTUS’ ipod?” and “What to wear with FLOTUS” can be great segments too. LOL
I find it somewhat fascinating that they are almost treated like celebirties. Here, nobody cares about the President’s personal life. His wife is a law professor and she still works, and I haven’t seen one picture of his daughter since the inaguration years ago. I mean, the guy’s an agnostic in a very Catholic country, and no one cares.
Is this the case only in the US or do other countries have such a showbizz perspective on politics?
They want to be celebrities, that’s why they show up everywhere.
Moodgirl, They show up everywhere? Really? That’s news to me.
Duplicate.
Every talk show created by man, multiple times; comedy skits, presenting at the Oscars, you name it. I’m in the group that feels it dilutes the dignity of the position. If you want the job then do the job.
Moodgirl, you must have had a rough 4 decades, because the Presidents have been doing such things since at least the 70s.
Not as much the O’s do.
POUTUS= President Of The United States
FLOTUS= First Lady Of The United Statez
As thriller ,Fincher’s Gone Girl is BS but Fincher saw Gone Girl as black comedy and a soap opery
I love seeing all these school kids tweeting about their nasty lunch and blaming Michelle, i wonder if its really that bad ,some of it looks so gross that i can’t believe a school cafeteria can serve such a mess.
School lunches have been bad since the beginning of time. They just want something else to blame on FLOTUS.
Nah, she made this her issue. It’s fair enough to give her both the credit if it goes well and the blame if it doesn’t. She’s an intelligent professional woman, and she can take it.
My local school’s lunches aren’t bad, they’re decent, but the school is SO cheap. And by that I mean they charge a full price lunch on a piece of pizza and two sides. And let’s be clear–they order Caesar’s Pizza (and they cost like five bucks where I live), on a bi-weekly basis, so you know they get a massive discount on it. Plus they sell extras, and every year those prices go up. Like they sell this giant cookie that’s about the size of your hand. When I first started going to school there, it cost 75 cents. Then two years later it was a dollar. Then another year it was a dollar twenty five. The only reason people buy them is because those cookie are like crack.
Prices always go up. It’s capitalism. Food prices In general have skyrocketed in the past few years.
I live in a country with very few people of other races, I think I’ve seen less than ten black people in my entire life. I also grew up with a very sugar coated Hollywood view of America so reading these things truly shocks me. I can’t belive that a black man can’t get a cab in the 21st century. I know I sound so naive, but things like that very never discussed in our media, it has only now been reported, after the protests. It’s quite sickening.
I also have a question. I read an article that stated that if Michelle was white, African Americans wouldn’t have voted for Obama and he wouldn’t have been elected. Could that be the case? Would such a thing really matter?
Most African Americans are Democrats. It’s not that they changed their votes. It’s that AA that wouldn’t have made the extra effort to vote otherwise registered and turned out at a much higher rate. Even in states where laws were changed to make it more difficult to vote people stood on lines and waited.
Even so, AA are 17% of the US demographic. Caucasian is about 70%. Just sayin’ in terms of voting numbers and representation therefof.
“I live in a country with very few people of other races, I think I’ve seen less than ten black people in my entire life.” Wow. I’m surprised you haven’t been overwhelmed by immigration.
“Wow. I’m surprised you haven’t been overwhelmed by immigration. ”
WTF are you talking about? I mean really, WHAT are you saying here?
Is this sarcasm or are you really saying that black people are automatically “immigrants”?
Are you scared of immigrants?
Why? I don’t understand your comment.
You made an assumption that immigration is solely comprised of black people. Since she stated that she has seen few blacks, I wondered if her population has many minorities of any ethnic group. And “WTF” is hardly used in intelligent conversation, which is what we were having up to this point.
Since every westernized country on earth, including western and northern Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US, has been overwhelmed with immigrants, I wondered – without asking where she lives – what country has not been affected by the same. And yes, people of color make up a large percentage of immigrants because they come from countries that are underdeveloped and unable to offer opportunities and resources offered in the west.
“You made an assumption that immigration is solely comprised of black people. Since she stated that she has seen few blacks, I wondered if her population has many minorities of any ethnic group.”
No actually, YOU made that assumption. The OP said specifically “black people” and you automatically equated them with “immigrants”, which is weird and definitely warrants a WTF.
“Since every westernized country on earth, including western and northern Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US, has been overwhelmed with immigrants”
And by “immigrants” I assume you mean white folks, because believe it or not, white people are RARELY the original inhabitants of any land, western or not.
You could also read this comment as saying the poster believes a lot of people would want to live in such a white homogenous place and therefore he/she is surprised more people have not moved there.
@moodgirl, my country is almost 90% Croatian, and the minorities we do have tend to be from neighbouring countries.
It sounds like you are saying that nice white neighborhoods are being overrun by hordes of unwashed immigrants. Is that what you were saying?
@moodgirl, in many of the countries you list in your second comment (Australia, New Zealand, the US), the indigenous population is comprised of “people of color” and the “larger percentage of immigrants” are light-skinned and of European descent, so I’m still failing to see the logic of your first comment. Can you kindly explain?
@mixtape – I am fascinated that she stated that she had only seen ten black people. My co-worker is Russian but still had experience with exchange students. I would think that all populations would have made spread to almost all areas by now.
@kitten – Current populations do not reflect “original inhabitants.”
@moodgirl – You can’t really compare a country like Russia which is huge and everybody has heard of it, to a country that’s teeny tiny like mine and many people haven’t even heard of it. Also, because of the war we don’t exactly have the best reputation. Furthermore, I live in the inland, in a small town. The coast, which is very touristy tends to be more cosmopolitan, especially during the summer.
Charlie, it is indeed hard to explain the realities of racism in the States – there’s so much unacknowledged white privilege, so much nonchalant racism. It’s insidious and, as a white person, you should never be complacent about your own assumptions. I don’t mean to be offensive or inflammatory, but a good way to understand the absurdity of racism in America is to think of the ethnic and religious divides in, say, Croatia – which are equally incomprehensible for Americans.
There aren’t that many ethnic and religious devides in Croatia anymore, partially because the country is 90% Croatian and Catholic. Some of the Muslim or Orhodox people I know don’t have any problems here anymore, the animosity prevalent during and right after the war have largely cooled down and even the relations between Serbia and Croatia are very good for countries who were at war less then 20 years ago and who still have unresolved cases ( the genocide claims at the Hague tribunal, etc.) The only instances of animosity tend to occur during sports matches, but you can hardly judge an entire nation by football holligans.
However, looking from the outside, I can see how that would be incomprehensible for foreigners to understand, especially since we are quite similar.
What do you mean by nonchalant racism? Is there a difference between racism and just ignorance?
The book was better. The depths of Amy’s manipulations was so much more developed in the book. Plus the movie made Nick too sympathetic. The beauty of the book was how much those two deserved each other at the end. So satisfying.
Yes, agree. Also tinkering with the structure in the movie made her psychopathy much less surprising. Being totally thrown at the midway point of the book was so much of the fun.
I agree – I liked both the book and the movie, but felt the book really got to delve into how twisted and manipulative she really was. I was kind of bummed they cut out the character of her high school friend from the film. Once the truth of all that came out in the book it really added to the character.
I did see the movie with a few friends who hadn’t read the book though, and they were blown away by the Amy character, felt the tension of the story, etc. So I think both were really good, but reading a book ahead of time is always going to change your perception of a film, and usually the film can’t present the story as fully as the book can.
It’s very rare to find a movie that’s better than the book it’s taken from. But I’m freakin obsessed with reading, so that might just be me! 😉
Can we please retire the phrase “race card”? I notice that people are quick to use it when they feel another person is lying about being a victim of racism. As if there’s no way something like that could occur. I find it offensive. Especially when its almost ALWAYS used by people that are NOT on the receiving end of racism.
On a lighter note, Sasha and Malia are such gorgeous girls! They’ve grown up beautifully.
Sasha and Malia are gorgeous, imho two of the most tasteful & well-appointed/conducted first daughters to grow up the white house in our country’s history
I”m a 5’10” white woman and I pretty much can’t go to a grocery store without having to help at least one person who just can’t get the highest box of crackers or whatever. People of all races are short and need help with that top shelf. It is what it is.
Yes because I’m sure Michelle Obama ivy league grad, professional, doesn’t really know the difference. Have a seat. Please.
again, FLOTUS went on Letterman and told this story a couple of years ago and said it was a cute/funny story, now she is singing a different song.
And Joy, please remain standing.
im 5’2 and ask other customers for help at least once a week. im aware they dont work there. but i have a napoleonic hatred of tall people and they should serve me.
LMAO
Thank you lisa for bringing a little light-hearted humor to this thread. I’m 5’1 and I feel the same way.
#whiteprivilege
Michelle Obama’s comment were made in the context of always being mistaken for the ‘help’. Why is Barack Obama’s comments about being mistaken for a valet or waiter also not being picked on and torn apart. While is only her experience being criticised, why has this become the easy ‘target’?
Because she is a black woman in the white house. period.
Because her story isn’t clear. We don’t know whether she was asked for help because she is black and must therefore work at Target or because she was taller than the person asking for help. If the woman only asked MO because MO was taller and close by she must feel pretty horrible reading this story.
I guess I do just come from a different part of the world. I would never ask another customer to get me something off a shelf, I would just presume I am bothering them, even if they are taller and standing right next to me. I would definitely call a shop assistant, who I know whose job it is to help me.
Me too.
It’s cultural I guess. Just the other day I helped a grandmother find a toy for her grand kid in the toy store. She just randomly asked me if I knew where this specific toy was. I wasn’t an employee. I don’t think I was dressed as an employee. She just wanted some help and I was happy to do it, and I knew exactly what she wanted and where it was. I took her to the right aisle and plucked it off the shelf for her.
I have people ask me for help and especially directions all the time. All the time. I guess I look like I know where I’m going and what I’m doing. I take it as a compliment, not an insult.
whenever I’m shopping people will ask me what aisle something is in: grocery, clothing store. If I see someone reaching for an item, I’ll get it for them without asking. I also think the elderly are to trusting by having their purses in the carts and I’ll say “hey Ma, hold on to your purse, you don’t want someone to grab and run”. BTW, I’m black and everyone is Ma, when that purse is in the cart.
I finally asked a woman who approach me for help why me? She said you’re smiling and look like you’ll help someone.
Wow….A lot of nasty basic beckies on board today.
Yeah I don’t think the Target thing was racist… just wanted some help from a tall person.
sure you do…..shut up!
wait a minute. didn’t FLOTUS go on Letterman a couple of years ago and claim this was a cute story of her helping a clueless person at Target? Now it was a racist event?
Exactly! I quoted above what she said on Letterman:
“I thought I was undercover. I have to tell you something about this trip though. No one knew that was me because a woman actually walked up to me, right? I was in the detergent aisle, and she said — I kid you not — she said, ‘Excuse me, I just have to ask you something,’ and I thought, ‘Oh, cover’s blown.’ She said, ‘Can you reach on that shelf and hand me the detergent?’ I kid you not…And the only thing she said — I reached up, ’cause she was short, and I reached up, pulled it down — she said, ‘Well, you didn’t have to make it look so easy.’ That was my interaction. I felt so good. … She had no idea who I was. I thought, as soon as she walked up — I was with my assistant, and I said, ‘This is it, it’s over. We’re going to have to leave.’ She just needed the detergent.”
Exactly. At the time she thought it was great. I just don’t understand it. As a tall lady I’m asked for assistance all the time from people of all races and creeds and have no problem helping if I’m able. I’d rather ask another shopper for help than a store worker, because usually the customers are way more helpful and friendly than the employees who look at you like you’re asking them to give up their first born.
Can I borrow you for my kitchen?
I’m sick of climbing on countertops-they’re tile and they hurt my knees.
Can’t reply to Kitten’s post….
ABSOLUTELY! Anytime Kitten. This is going to sound so dumb, but I like it when people in public places ask me for help. As someone with a serious case of resting bitch face it makes me gleeful when people ask for directions or assistance. It means I don’t scare them or make them uncomfortable. I’ve been told I seem scary before because I come across aloof at first. I don’t mean to be.
Sorry for the ramble. But girl if I lived near you I’d say just give me a call 😉
Interesting. From the current comments, it’s sounds like she was more upset or bothered by the fact that someone didn’t recognize her as the FLOTUS. I saw the pic of her in target. Unless you’ve never in your entire life been in a Target, you know all the workers wear red and khaki. She was not wearing either of those things. I highly doubt this person thought she worked at Target.
I’m also *quite* sure she was surrounded by a security team. I’m sure that would be another tip off that she didn’t work there.
I hate needing to go to Target and realizing I threw on khakis and a red shirt that morning…..
If she WAS with her security team, whom I presume would be taller than her, maybe she thought about it after time and wondered why the woman didn’t ask one of her guards for help instead of her?
Or maybe she’s offended that she wasn’t immediately recognized, but it doesn’t seem by the first telling of the story on Letterman that it bothered her to be incognito.
I do think it’s odd she would tell the story differently, but I also think that sometimes we only realize an incident was indicative of racism or sexism after mulling it over.
I imagine the Secret Service do not seem very approachable. And rightly so.
So the Secret Service dudes don’t seem approachable but the woman being protected by the secret service DOES?
I think everybody both men and women are more likely to approach a strange woman than a strange man. Of course the secret service people could have been women but my knowledge of them is based on American TV shows and in those they tend to be men.
Maybe she *did* know it was the FLOTUS and she just wanted to get close. Idk. I just know the explanation seemed off. She obviously has a right to feel however she wants about any situation she’s in. Just like I have the right to question her explanation when it sounds innocent given her previous description of the situation.
jill biden’s service men are creepy scary. they remind me of frat boys 1 beer short of a wilding. she might not get the cream of the crop though. but i wouldnt ask them for anything . id ask her first.
It sounds like from the story she told the first time the agents probably weren’t hovering, she was shopping with her assistant. I’m assuming so I could be completely wrong. Just throwing it out there. If she wanted a “normalized” experience she probably requested they hang back in the store and allow her some breathing room. Poor thing is probably starved for being alone in public. Lord knows I would be.
At first I was thinking that this was a different encounter on the same day but after reading through all the comments I just don’t know.
I might get dragged for this but it’s also possible that she’s conflating this experience with something else. Or maybe what she first thought was innocuous and kinda funny, when she had a chance to think about the woman’s demeanor and so forth that it took on a different note. Memory is a tricky thing and I see this happen all the time. E.g. Someone suggests that an experience might not be what it first seemed based on your telling of it and it can alter your perception of what really happened.
The Obama girls have walked passed me and the Secret Service keep their distance. It might have been the same way at Target. They’re probably not surrounding her.
was she spinning it to sound racist? She left out just enough for you to wonder or put your own bias on the story.
I haven’t read the book but saw the movie – it WAS focused on Amy. Affleck tried what he could to keep the attention on himself but it just looked like he was there to move furniture around.
basically, he played himself?
While I enjoyed the film adaptation, I enjoyed the book far more! There were such a lot of plot points that were either cut out or ignored. And I completely agree about the film being Nick central and the book more Amy central. I don’t understand why it was changed. I think the studio was trying to make it into more of a “Fatal Attraction” type of role for Amy. At least the plot twists were still there. And why is it such a big deal that Affleck was supposedly “full frontal”? I felt that was a blink and you missed it scene. And they made Andy’s role a one note nudity scene without fully exploring her relationship with Nick. Typical Hollywood.
Better movie than book: the incredibly beautiful, bittersweet, atmospheric “The Secret of Roan Inish.” (The book was titled “The Secret of the Ron Mor Skerry.”)
Thank you Kaiser for calling her out on her BS.
Racism doesn’t exist
Racial profiling doesn’t exist
All people are treated equally in the US of A
Happy?
Go to YouTube, look up Michelle Obama david letterman 2013. Fast forward to about 4.40 minutes. She had a totally different perspective last year on Letterman. “She was short and just needed detergent.”
This has got me thinking about something I previously assumed, which is that she must get all kinds of passive-aggressive garbage from people who want to remind her of where she ‘belongs’.
For people always talking about the ‘race card’ consider: hundreds of years of white presidents, black people dealt with it, one (half)-black one and people lose their fucking minds. There are a LOT of people whose only job is to complain that he got through. Conspiracy theories, outright lies, radio shows, a whole news network exists so people can whine about how horrible it is that there’s a black man in the White House, a political party that seeks to do an entire nation mischief just to spite the black man in the White House–all of those things exist.
So, who exactly is playing a card? It’s nuts, most white people (unless holding a grudge) will admit that racism exists, but if an instance of racism is presented it is such a frequent thing that they won’t believe it.
OK, reading all the comments, the conclusion seems to be: if you need help with shopping (reaching for things on high shelves), just ask a white tall person. Do not ask anybody, who is tall but not white, because it is racist.
Sorry, this is absurd. You are tall, I ask you nicely to please help me, because I am short. Actually, shouldn´t I be offended, that I am short and there are some tall people, who can reach the top shelf? 🙂
Your conclusion makes you sound like a clueless asshole. If you can’t be even marginally sensitive to to racial history, context, and time-specific cultural implications-“duhrr, we’re all equal now because I wasn’t raised to see skin color!”–then please just shut up and sit down, you’re part of the (massive ignorance) problem.