Well, it happened. And I’m sort of disappointed. The federal judge issued his ruling today and nullified Tom Brady’s four-game suspension. Brady was given the four-game suspension as punishment for his (questionable) role in the Deflategate scandal by the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who agreed with the findings in the Wells Report. Here’s more:
Tom Brady’s four-game suspension from the NFL for his role in DeflateGate has been nullified. In May, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell handed down the punishment, which Brady officially appealed last month. Although Goodell was the arbitrator for the appeal, he changed his original ruling and has now decided that the quarterback presented sufficient evidence to reduce his punishment for allegedly having knowledge that Patriots staff deflated footballs ahead of the AFC Championship against the Indianapolis Colts.
Goodell previously claimed that the only way Brady would be able to get his suspension reduced or eliminated was if he provided new information — specifically, information that Brady initially did not provide to the Wells investigation, such as text and phone records. It’s unclear yet if Brady did present new information, or if there were other factors at play.
Players like Richard Sherman and Ndamukong Suh beat suspensions in the past in front of an NFL appeals officer, but neither had Goodell as the arbitrator. The commissioner eliminating the suspension that he himself placed on Brady is somewhat unprecedented.
If Brady’s suspension wasn’t completely erased, the quarterback and the NFLPA were prepared to take the league to federal court. Details of the case put together by the NFLPA were released by the Washington Post and it was believed that Brady had a relatively strong chance at winning.
With Brady’s suspension now eliminated, the DeflateGate saga, which dragged on for more than six months after the AFC Championship, is now in the rearview mirror. Brady and the Patriots will begin the 2015 season with a home game against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Thursday, Sept. 10.
Even though it sounds like Goodell had a come-to-Jesus moment, it was probably more of a situation where Goodell saw which way the wind was blowing and decided to voluntarily lift the suspension as part of the judge’s ruling. So… basically, Brady isn’t going to be punished for anything? And we’re just supposed to think that he destroyed his phone for no reason, because he was completely innocent? #DeflatedBallsOfLies
Update: Deadspin has some great coverage with more details about why the judge ruled in Brady’s favor – go here to read.
Update #2: Well, it looks like Goodell didn’t lift anything, it was just the judge ordering the four-game suspension be lifted. And now Goodell is going to appeal the decision. But the NFl will not be seeking a stay, which means that as the appeal works its way through the system, Brady will still get to play his first game next week.
Meanwhile, there’s another piece of good news for Brady – E! News has a source claiming that Tom and Gisele are “not headed for divorce” despite Us Weekly’s report that Gisele has been consulting with a divorce lawyer.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Good. He didn’t do anything or he didn’t do anything other players haven’t done. The whole thing was ridiculous.
So, everyone does it and doesn’t get punished so no one should be punished ever. Yea. That’s the Lance Armstrong defense.
This isn’t even remotely comparable to doping. People just love to hate the Pats.
Then again, the biggest issue with Armstrong wasn’t even the doping (as the sport was so dirty at that time that they didn’t even re-award his Tour victories), it was the whole ‘ruining people’s lives’ with his vindictiveness and whatnot.
What about the Colts’ footballs? Sure they only measured four of them because they “ran out of time” (LOL) but one of the four was under the legal limit. Guess they’re as bad as Lance too.
But isn’t it weird that they only tested four of the Colts balls? Maybe they should have just waited until the end of the game and tested both teams’ footballs under the same conditions. Nah, that would be too logical.
Mind you, the Ideal Gas Law perfectly explains the few Pats footballs being under the limit. Remember, the Pats footballs were measured at the beginning of halftime, when they were still cold. Meanwhile, the Colts balls were measured right at the end of halftime after they had been sitting in a warm locker room. Still, why was that one Colts ball SO far under the legal limit even after it had time to gain air pressure in a warm locker room? Things that make you go hmmmmm…
..and this is all ignoring the fact that Walt Anderson used two gauges and if you go with one gauge’s readings (the one that Anderson said he used to “his best recollection”) then actually ALL of the Pats’ footballs were within a legal range. Yet Wells decided to base their findings on the OTHER GAUGE.
Which is weird. Why would they go AGAINST the ref’s “best recollection”?
@Kitten, Berman raises the fact that the Colts equipment people were allowed to handle the Patriots ball
Glad I checked in. Way Too Literal here.
That’s why I was careful in my wording. Not doping. Just about accusations and punishment. Take it as that. As it was meant.
I disagree. He is a professional football player who has held a football every single day for the last 30 years. That he didn’t know those balls were underinflated bogs believability. It is completely illogical that he did not know.
Not really. He was thinking about pretty much everything except for a small amount of lost pressure. The ball was wet and he doesn’t dig his fingers into the ball before throwing it.
The other team pointed out that the balls were deflated at half time. So (a) it was noticeable, (b) Brady had an advantage in terms of his preference, (c) the QB for whom this wasn’t a preference and the players he was passing to were at a disadvantage.
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/01/19/patriots-accused-deflating-balls-afc-championship-win-colts/21990011/
Well, he’s still a Schwarzenegger-spawn-looking gazillionaire, but the sheen is off his golden boy image. He cheats in his sport and his natural-beauty wife runs around Paris in a burqa getting plastic surgery — so, still a perfect match, there!
Ally, you’re wrong. The guy who intercepted the ball said he didn’t feel anything. He wanted it as a souvenir.
If you want to sit around and pass judgment, at least research what you’re saying
The equipment guy decided to test it on his own. Why is really up in the air.
He’s tainted already.
Expect anything different?
The NFL surely did. They handpicked Berman themselves because they thought that he’d be more apt to side with them. LOL
You can’t “handpick” a federal judge. That’s judge shopping and against the law. Judge assignments are based on computer lottery.
@HH, yes, it is but it still happens all the time and both the NFL and NFLPA tried to forum shop on this one. The NFL filed for confirmation of its decision before it even served notice of the decision on the grievant. This case should have been in Boston, not New York, not Minnesota.
That’s not judge shopping. That’s venue shopping. Not the same. They are in NY but it was not guaranteed that they got that judge. A complaint is filed and the computer arbitrarily assigns a judge from that district. I used to work in district court so I know about that.
Employees get fired for “fixing” assignments for attorneys.
They filed it that district because the judges, Berman in particular, are known to favor employers. The NFLPA filed the case in Minnesota because it is an employee friendly venue. The NFL got the judge it wanted but it didn’t work out for the NFL because he looked at the law and the CBA and found Goodell’s ruling unsupported
Nope. The rich and powerful literally get away with murder. So what if Brady cheats and gets a Super Bowl Ring?? So what if Michael Vick gets million dollar contracts after fighting dogs?? I would love to see the smug get wiped off of Brady’s face, but hey – people do end up with the karma they deserve and he ‘s an arrogant cheater who will face the music some day. He should just ask Lance and Tiger about it. 🙂
The stupid is strong in this thread.
@Pedro45,
Please do not call me stupid. You don’t know the first thing about me, except that I don’t worship at the altar of Tom Brady. It is very, very rude and ignorant to call someone stupid you don’t even know.
Your comment, among others in this thread, is stupid. Lance Armstrong was completely different and Tiger was never accused of cheating at golf, just on his marriage. Michael Vick, again, is not at all comparable to Brady. Try to write a more cogent comment next time.
Are you actually comparing a man who electrocuted and strangled (with his bare hands) dogs to a player accused of being “generally aware” of something that was actually demonstrated to be crap?
Let’s consider the following:
The pressure of the footballs before the AFC championship game WAS NEVER TESTED. How can one claim tampering when original PSI was never established? Not only that, but when the balls Were tested, two different gauges were used and the ref couldn’t recall which was which.
The all incriminating text messages were from Months before the championship game. Months, not days or weeks. And not one of them stated that Brady wanted footbals deflated.
“Wells relies on the data of two officials who tested the footballs at halftime and claims the Patriots balls were below the minimum. But he ignores the fact that by one of the officials’ measurements, eight of the 11 Pats balls were within the range of normal atmospheric deflation (between 11.32 and 11.52) cited by his own scientific consulting firm. He states “Most … were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law” while leaving out the fact that by one official, the vast majority were right in the range. And fails to mention that by one official’s count, three of the four Colts balls were below the magic 12.5 psi number. That’s exactly the kind of selective evidence gathering that props up the “Patriots were up to something” narrative, but undermines the whole report.” Jerry Thornton
Two other teams were found to have “tampered” with footbals in the past and do you know what punishment they got? Nothing. Google Panthers/Vikings warming footballs
I actually could provide so much more information but I feel like it would be wasted on someone who equates torture and murder of animals to a damn ball being light on air.
@Pedro Tiger has been accused of using PEDs. I consider that cheating but perhaps you do not. Just wanted to point that out.
No….. not when it comes to protecting the Golden white goose.
He’s tainted regardless. A lot of the public will always believe he cheated.
This dude has Kanye level hate…..
Franken(blue)berry Looks happy.. like he is back to terrorizing the villagers
Yes, thank you. He does look sinister.
Omigod now I cant unsee it…
Hahaha!!! And that is now his name in my Football League 🙂
Did he have to look so smug?
Ha – was coming on to say from certain angles, he’s rather missing link … but gee, surprise, the star isn’t suspended after all! Wow, such a surprise.
Brilliant, QQ! I wasn’t going to read this post, but thrilled to have laid eyes on your comment.
‘xactly. This human is hideous, and celebrated for some supposed sports prowess which has been extremely and sinisterly downgraded to poor sportsmanship. Gack.
So, I guess the divorce is off, then?
saw a post on Lainey yesterday and she’s got him on “ring watch” because he allegedly did NOT wear his ring to some event…the kind that he normally would have.
ya know, maybe he was just bloated that day, dammit! 😉
He typically does not wear his ring during football season. It’s rarely on. I would imagine it’s both uncomfortable and dangerous(if finger is injured, it would need to be cut off)
Lainey has a whole “when he wears it, when he doesn’t” list thing up, too, with links to pics.
and no, he does NOT wear it during practice or on the field, but the event that was pictured was not a game or practice. he was in a suit, with Gronk (also in a suit) and it was the kind of event, according to her list, where he would normally wear it. though she does clearly point out that he sometimes doesn’t wear it when out and about with Giz and the kids.
let’s be clear, I DO NOT think they are divorcing; I’m just reporting what other sources are saying.
It was their annual gala. He didn’t wear it to the 2014 gala or the 2013 gala either. I don’t read Lainey but the gala pics are on the pats site(look up galleries from August 2014, 2013, I didn’t go back any further). So it’s not a big deal
and it’s possible/likely that he might be tossing a ball around during the charity gala, if only for pics, so it makes sense to NOT wear one to that event.
Maybe the Nanny is still wearing his rings. Lol Kidding..
I’m more interested in what’s going on behind the scenes with Giselle consulting divorce lawyers?
Daily Mail is like a dog w a bone on that news.
My first thought too!
#Winning
He’s really lost his pretty.
You can’t lose something you never had.
BAM. ITA.
Is anyone else over him?
This might come off bitchy but I don’t find him attractive at all
You’re not alone, him and the wifey are not all that
I used to think he was hot, and lately it’s been like the Seinfeld ep where sometimes I think he looks good and others it’s like “LURCH!”
though these pics do him no favors…the haircut he’s got accentuates his heavy brow and makes him look very cro-magnon.
I think he’s unfortunate looking too.
Very.
And that goes for his spouse, too.
(And, no, I’m not the least bit jealous.)
Aww, come on. First the media picked on his marriage. Then he gets his suspension overturned and you guys pick on his looks. Leave him alone. Just kidding. I actually think Brady is a very attractive man but even he can have an off day where he doesn’t look his best. No doubt in my mind he’s a great QB but having his suspension overturned doesn’t take away from him forever being labeled a cheater in the back of a lot of people’s minds. The suspension was only lifted; it didn’t say he was innocent of any wrong doing.
Oh and maybe he destroyed his phone because he had an Ashley Madison account.
Come On, I kid, I kid.
Let’s go Cowboys
@vreal, the judge didn’t have jurisdiction to rule on Brady’s innocence or guilt. Putting forth a view on that either way would give grounds for overturning his decision on appeal. That wasn’t the issue before him, Goodell’s actions were. Although the judge’s footnotes, questions, and use of “seemingly” and “allegedly” to describe the footballs, along with his questioning of the Colts’s actions put Goodell’s fact-finding in a harsh light.
Smarmy
If you’re disappointed by this, you haven’t been paying attention. Taking Goodell’s side on anything makes me side eye people these days.
I’m SHOCKED I tell you, SHOCKED!!!
…said no one who actually READ The Wells Report.
game on, O’Kitt.
LET’S GO BIG BLUE! 😛
Hell yeah, doofus! So excited for football 🙂
I READ the Wells report and I think he should have gotten a punishment in line with performance enhancing measures like he was given.
Unfortunately there are two sets of rules in this country, the powerful have the little people do their dirty work and pay the price too!
But of course you would say that. No surprise here.
Between my side eye and eye roll my vision is terrible. And still I saw this coming, but ugh.
Brady’s a good football player. Its too bad we will never know if he could have won without cheating.
Yeah, because the other team *almost* stood a chance in that game…
*snort of laughter*
And he never won anything else? Just that one game? Please. Brady is one of the best QB’ s in football history.
Brady is THE best! #1 QB all time period.
“And he never won anything else? Just that one game? Please. Brady is one of the best QB’ s in football history.”
Totally agree. Such an important tidbit of this whole thing that people are trying to leave out. Brady IS an incredible player and I’ll never understand why anyone would ever try to take his credibility away from him over the inflation of his balls. There is so much more than that that goes into being a good QB. He is undeniably one of the best ever.
I don’t claim to know all of the facts, but this case has always baffled me because there have been plenty of other QBs who like balls under- or overinflated to their liking. Aaron Rodgers is notorious for preferring his balls to be overinflated. No one is going after him.
Ditto, Me Too!!!! He’s the Greatest of All Time.
GO PATS!!!
Yes to all of you!
I won’t take away that he is one of the best QB’s to ever play the game. And yes he has had a lot of wins. But this situation makes people wonder how many other games might he have played a hand in where they did something questionable or against the integrity of the game but they just never got caught.
Look at Alex Rodriguez and his use of enhancement drugs. Perhaps there was a time when he was good without the drugs but people will never believe it because of his use of it. Look at him today. He’s not on the stuff and he’s having the best season he has had in a long time.
It’s like a kid who gets caught cheating on a test. His parents say but he’s such a great student look at all the other test he aced. Yet the teachers are probably thinking but how many of all those other tests he might have cheated on but he just never got caught.
No matter what Brady’s image is still somewhat tarnished and people are going to remember the bad, not the good. And it makes you wonder how in the hell did this great QB fall twice to Eli and The Giants in the SB’s.
@v4real, well, one of those Giants wins was due to the refs forgetting the tuck rule’s required elbow position in order to allow the helmet catch.
The other was due to, as Giselle indelicately pointed out, Welker not catching the ball.
“one of those Giants wins was due to the refs forgetting the tuck rule’s required elbow position in order to allow the helmet catch.”
what is the “required elbow position” for the tuck rule? It’s not referred to in the text of the rule and I thought the tuck rule only referred to a QB’s forward arm motion regarding what is considered a forward pass and subsequently, what can be considered a fumble based on the forward motion. Not sure I understand but how would the tuck rule even apply to that play if Eli never lost the ball? he almost got sacked, scrambled away, threw the pass, THEN got hit. or, was it on a previous play that they applied the rule and THAT call led to the pass and helmet-catch to Tyree?
“The other was due to, as Giselle indelicately pointed out, Welker not catching the ball.”
so, the Giants receivers played better, then. 😉 Look, I know you’re a Pats fan but that last sentence sounds a LOT like you’re saying, “the Giants didn’t win because they played better than the Pats, the Pats just played worse than the Giants.” I guess both are true?…but saying it one of those ways kind of denigrates the Giants play.
He won this battle, but he will never ever get that undefeated season and I just know that 18-1 year sticks in his craw. And that makes me smile. GO BIG BLUE!!!
I direct you to footnote 3 in Judge Berman’s decision.
I also direct you to Judge Berman’s repeated use of “allegedly underinflated” and “seemingly underinflated”
Stay reaching.
Oh this comment is ridiculous. Lmao
Good. Now maybe the League and Goodell will get some lawyers who didn’t get their degrees from Clown College. And if the Players Association is smart, during the next round of CBA negotiations, their biggest sticking point will be actual standards for punishments, instead of the whim of some white dude who thinks that upgrading your iPhone is a bigger offense than beating the crap out of your girlfriend.
+1,000,000
They probably won’t because if standards and procedures are set that the Players Association had a hand in negotiating and structuring, then the players would be held to them.
And I do think some of the players would balk at having a contract include a set procedure to deal with punishments and a schedule of mandatory fines and suspensions for certain infractions/issues that plague the league.
Leaving it to Goodell to decide punishment works out in the players’ favor publicly more often than not because Goodell is so corrupt that people automatically side eye any punishment he gives out. He’s been so arbitrary, shady, and ridiculous in dealing with every issue that’s come across his desk, who trusts a word he says anymore? The players are automatically given the benefit of the doubt because Goodell’s so corrupt and awful at his job.
And leaving Goodell with unfettered discretion more often than not results in any challenged punishment being overturned by the courts. If there’s a set procedure included in the contract and mandatory punishment on the books for a certain infraction that the players agreed to abide by, it becomes much harder to get punishments overturned on appeal.
I would love to kick Goodell’s head like a football. Ugh, I have trouble getting down with the NFL these days because the corruption. I prefer to watch the two hand touch 7 and under football my daughter cheers for.
Pleaseicu, I honestly never thought I’d change my stance on the CBA issue, but darn it if you don’t have an EXCELLENT point! Really, the NFLPA just needs to keep out-lawyering the League and Baddell, and voila!
Though I do think some minimum standards for criminal behavior (like, say, beating the crap out of your girlfriend and dragging her unconscious body out of an elevator, ON VIDEO), ought to be held to some higher standard of punishment. But Baddell (as Goodell will now forever be known in my books) really screwed the pooch with that one when he underestimated the public backlash to such a puny suspension.
That’s what really slays me. Brady didn’t have a crystal ball and couldn’t foresee the need to preserve his text messages four months later. Ray Rice commits a felony, a DELIBERATE act, and gets less of a suspension. WTF?
Of course it was lifted….did anyone truly believe Jack Armstrong could lose? As ridiculous as saying that Gisele would leave him. His fans will rally around him and scream for redemption of his accusers but….true football lovers will always have a question mark about his authenticity and truthfulness….win at all costs….deflate debate…..and his name in the history of football will always have an asterisk after it. You win again Tom, yay..
No
I started to type a response but I’m not wasting my breath when you addressed things so succinctly.
Yes, he will. Just like Armstrong and Alex Rodriguez will always have an asterick near their names.
Just saying No doesn’t change the facts. I’m always amazed at true believers – they really, truly refuse to believe facts. Actual facts.
Shaking my head in wonder and dismay.
Wow Jib are you ever the voice of reason. I have read your posts and agree with everything you’ve said. You don’t speak from emotion, you speak from logic and intellect. Cheers to you! Jeers to those who get so nasty over football. Passion is enlightening but ignorance is frightening.
Kitten, I started to write more and then my brain actually got tired. So over this foolishness.
Ladies, it’s just my opinion, doesn’t make it right or wrong. Obviously, I’m in the minority on this thread, as I see most people are happy with the decision. Like Michael Corleone said, it’s not personal, just business…lol. Have a good day @Kitten and @Pedro45…..no ill intent on my part.
Agreed 100%. The friend on FB that I’m arguing with is all emotion, no facts. It’s like talking to a wall. The funny part is that Pats fans are the ones constantly accused of being biased..lol
Well, if Pats fans are biased then so is the judge that the NFL HAND-PICKED.
I know people are not being logical when they can only see one side. There are some people here to whom Tom Brady is God, Jesus, Gandhi and The Fairy Godmother all wrapped up in one. They are not capable of seeing any grey. Brady is God, he is perfect, the is the Almighty. It is a very simple way of looking at the world, but you will see it in politics all of the time.
Me, I see loads of grey in the world. I think Brady knew, maybe didn’t do it himself, but he, of course, knew the balls were underinflated. It it absurd to think that a man who held a football all day most days the last 15 years wouldn’t know. But his worshippers can’t admit that, because it means he isn’t perfect. It’s like, I like Obama, but I’m very disappointed in a lot of things he didn’t do. He is good, but not perfect. I can hold those two thoughts in my head at once without getting confused.
It is really kind of sickening to see so many people who can’t. I teach AP English Language, which is studying the rhetoric people use to convince us of what they want us to believe, and the most important thing I teach my students is to THINK, don’t just believe what the media or people want you to believe. It’s sadly lacking in our country nowadays.
Everyone is being emotional and bias. Both sides are also ignoring and stating facts.
Pats are the Yankees of the NFL. It’s a hard truth to swallow, but where the money, constant screaming rumors of cheating/corruption, etc goes this will follow. And yea, most all teams do this, but not all win the seasons and get the massive pay boosters.
If nothing else Brady’s career will be plagued with Cheating scandals. His legacy is tarnished if from nothing else his numerous statements of balls and the jokes that sprung from that.
Good arm. Talented QB. And truths will come out down there road like they usually do.
Nailed it Nancy!
Cheating pays!
No winners win. But please If you have actual proof of cheating -not just jumping on the bandwagon h*te like most people have done- please feel free forward it to the Goodell he might be interested. Oh what? You don’t ? Oh ok. Goodell is in good company then.
Paige! I was starting to feel like I was going to be stoned by the townspeople. Ha. Nice to have someone in my corner…….
@ Tify- As I’ve said a million times: thank god bandwagon fallacies aren’t admissible in a court of law. LOL
You do realize that whenever a referee throws a yellow flag in a NFL game, somebody cheated, right? And that the teams who do this the most tend to not make the playoffs?
Also, how did Brady cheat in court with the NFL’s chosen judge?
@nancy – real football lovers? Oh ok. I see what you are trying to do there. Fail. Haha
I personally think there was legal precedent to rule either way. So I see both sides. I think Tom Brady was being hosed, yes but I still think it is problematic to challenge an inequitable collective bargaining agreement that you agreed to in the first place. Why agree to let Goodell be judge and jury and then get mad when he comes out with stupid capricious decisions. I think this ruling sets a bad precedent arbitration wise. Did what the NFLPA agree to in the CBA against the NFL suck? Yes. But they agreed to it when they should have negotiated for a better deal. Now you are opening the floodgates for people to challenge all arbitration decisions, which will overload the courts with even more litigation. The due process argument made by the judge was the most solid argument against the NFL but I mean once again the NFLPA agreed to the crappy CBA so that was on them. Either way in my opinion I don’t see any victims here because everyone has a boatload of lawyers representing their interests and fighting it out so it is what it is.
Layday, we have discussed this issue before and how that provision in the CBA, which has survived for 40 years, is supposed to operate and when the Commissioner is required to recuse himself under that provision. The judge ruled that Goodell should have recused himself pursuant to that provision, as every other commissioner has done
@ Lilacflowers The following line should have never been in the CBA agreed by the NFLPA “Section 8.3 gives the Commissioner “full, complete, and final jurisdiction and authority to arbitrate . . . [a]ny dispute between any player, coach, and/or other employee of any member of the League and any member club or clubs.” As the Missouri Supreme Court noted in another case, the Commissioner is not neutral and unbiased and has a financial interest within the league so such a provision is ridiculous. So why did the NFLPA agree to it in the first place. I am pro-labor all day, but why agree to such a ludicrous provision and leave it up to the courts to legally dismantle when you yourself have the ability to negotiate it to be much less biased and impartial. Yet they didn’t. The NFLPA has way too much money and lawyers to let something like that stand, which created this issue in the first place so as I previously wrote, I’m meh on it and I could have seen this decision come down either way.
Nancy, I agree with your statement.
This incident is just another in a long line of accusations that this team has been on the end of, I lay most of the blame at Bellicheat’s feet. He is the head of the slimy snake.
Interesting article if you are interested in reading it: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/new-england-patriots-bill-belichick-jim-mcmahon-deflategate-cheater-082115
I am sure some fans will just say he is bitter, but this coach has a history of lying, just ask the Jets, and no, I an not a Jets fan.
He is a very unscrupulous and unprofessional man, so being accused of cheating, filming signals, etc. doesn’t seem so far fetched based on his character. Brady does what his coach tells him. I do not believe for one minute that Bellicheat had no knowledge of what was going on.
“..just ask the Jets…”
*RECORD SCRATCH*
Yeah no.
You lose all credibility when you invoke the name “Jets” in this context. LOL
Exhibit A) http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/
Exhibit B) http://yourteamcheats.com/NYJ
The Jets are the second most sketchy team in the league. The saddest part is that with all that shadiness, poor dudes STILL can’t win a game.
And while I refuse to use the “your team cheats too” argument in defense of the Pats because as a judge has officially ruled and as I said from day ONE Brady did NOT cheat and did nothing wrong…
…but since the point of your post is about cheating, I suggest you familiarize yourself with http://yourteamcheats.com/ because I’m certain your team is on there as well.
I’m relieved to hear that you’re not a Jets fan though. I’m sure the classy people of Jetsfans.com are hiding out in mom’s basement right now, after flying that embarrassing banner over Gillette. Although you know what they say, Jets fly banners and Pats hang banners. 😉
LeeAnn Stinks… great name! I didn’t realize how emotional we get over sports, almost political now. Anyway, I hated him when he was with the Browns years and years ago…in fact he is the reason I stopped watching football altogether. Not too difficult of a decision since the Browns really are bad. But alas, I now am a die hard Cavs fan. I am looking forward to basketball season which is a sentence I never thought would roll off my lips!
Kitten,
While this may sound odd, due to my criticisms of your hometown team, and its slimy coach, I have also wrote in many of my past posts, that I love the city of Boston, despite what I think of the Pats.
I will also add that your response was just immature and silly. Which part of “I am not a Jets fan,” did you not comprehend? As far as I am concerned, you lost all credibility when you failed to grasp that piece of inoformation, despite my typo. Maybe, you are just tired from constantly having to defend your team?
The one thing you are correct about, just because the Jets cheat does not negate what your team has done in the past. I don’t care if the Jets cheat, what does that have to do with Bellicheat being unprofessional? He announced publicly that he would be their head coach, knowing he signed with the Pats, and then the next day, he announced he was the Pats’ head coach. That’s a scummy, unprofessional move and shows what type of a character he has, one that cannot be trusted. His words mean nothing.
Finally, I have posted in the past that I am a NY Giants fan, and am very satisfied that my team beat yours twice in the Super Bowl. I guess Bellicheat didn’t have access to their playbooks, film of their hand signals, or maybe he just respects Coughlin, whom he used to work for? Not matter, at least I know my team, who may have the oldest coach in the league, has one without the cloud of cheating him following him like a stink weed everywhere he goes.
Nancy,
I cannot blame you. Thank God, he is no longer with the Giants organization. We could be the team being accused of all these shenanigans if he were still with them. Luckily, that is not the case.
BTW, the only thing worse than a Pats fan, is a defensive Pats fan. At least, I am honest enough to acknowledge the shortcomings of my team, QB, and coach. It doesn’t make me any less of a Giants fan, just an open minded and honest one.
@LeAnn stinks-Ugh. My point about the Jets wasn’t to say that you’re Jets fan (why would anybody be a Jets fan?) and I acknowledged as much, it was just to point out how ludicrous it is to cite the team that cheats the most in the league as a trusted source about the Pats level of cheating.
“Finally, I have posted in the past that I am a NY Giants fan, and am very satisfied that my team beat yours twice in the Super Bowl.”
Hmmmm…but does it bother you that right after The Giants beat the Pats in the SB in 2012, Andre Brown was suspended for four games for using Performance Enhancing Drugs?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/30/giants-andre-brown-suspended-four-games-by-nfl/
DAMN. Talk about cheating….huge asterisk right there
“Not matter, at least I know my team, who may have the oldest coach in the league, has one without the cloud of cheating him following him like a stink weed everywhere he goes.”
What about all of these Giants’ players who tested positive for PEDs though?:
G Eric Moore (1993) S Lyle West (1999) S Will Hill (2012) DT Jimmy Kennedy (2012) S Tyler Sash (2012)
Did the coach know what was happening when his players were doing anything they could to gain a competitive advantage, even taking illegal drugs?
I guess we’ll never know for certain but it does make you wonder…….
What about the Giants fullback Merle Hapes and quarterback Frank Filchock both admitted to being offered $2,500 bribes from Alvin Paris to lose by more than the 10-point spread before the 1946 NFL championship game against the Bears?
Now that is some historical cheating..going way way back.
What about the allegations running through the league that the New York Giants cheated in the playoffs by intercepting radio transmissions in 2001?
Yep. Pretty sure that’s more cheating.
The thing is, even though stats-wise The Giants have engaged in a lot more shadiness than the Pats, none of these scandals were as big as deflategate or spygate, because well, it’s The Patriots, the team everyone loves to hate.
I get it, believe me I do.
Anyway, glass houses and all..
PS-Sorry Doofus but I had to go there! lol
I don’t believe for one minute that the Giants will make the playoffs this year. Or that Eli deserves the money he’s getting
@kitten,
I think every single person who ever read any Brady thread knows where you stand and that to say you aren’t objective is an understatement. At this point, do you really think you are able to convince anyone of your viewpoint???
“but does it bother you that right after The Giants beat the Pats in the SB in 2012, Andre Brown was suspended for four games for using Performance Enhancing Drugs?
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/30/giants-andre-brown-suspended-four-games-by-nfl/
DAMN. Talk about cheating….huge asterisk right there”
except that Brown only played on the practice squad in the 2011 season and didn’t play in that 2012 SB game.
(and it’s OK, Kit, I know this is a tough subject for you Pats fans…hasn’t pretty much every team cheated?…and it makes me ANGRY when my team does it. I hate seeing stuff like deliberate hard hits. I even get mad when my baseball team does stuff like throwing at batters and sliding into the fielder to try to stop a double play. I KNOW it’s part of the game but I hate dirty play. it taints the game and isn’t sportsmanlike.)
@Jib-No, and I truly don’t GAF about changing people’s minds.
But just like everyone else has a right to believe that Brady cheated, I have a right to defend him.
*shrugs*
@Doofus-He still got an SB ring though you know?
Didn’t stop him from doing this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/06/giants-airplane-celebration-super-bowl_n_1257734.html
He said that he forgot to fill out some paperwork and that it was Adderall that caused a false positive. In his defense, he got the suspension overturned. He was cleared.
so I’ll take the asterisk away, Doofus ok? 😉
But notice how Brown’s appeal and that particular scandal was nowhere near the level of Brady’s for less than .4 PSI in a football? Nobody told Brown not to fight it and to just accept his punishment.
And Doofus you are right that there is not ONE team in the NFL that hasn’t had AT LEAST one player use a PED. Guaranteed. And that includes the Pats.
I wasn’t trying to drag the Giants, but I get irritated when people front like Pats are “badandevilcheatersandstuff” when they’re one of the teams with fewer infractions compared to others. Yes I feel compelled to defend, even at the risk or irritating others.
Kitten,
I am sure if we tested the Pats, some of their players would test positive for PEDs as well. If you don’t think so, I have a bridge to sell you. I am sure that this is the case for many members of all of the teams around the league. But, keep reaching and making excuses for your coach and his players.
BTW, the Pats being perpetual victims excuse is getting old. You can try placing that asterisk on other teams, but it still does not wash away the side eye cheating of your coach, whom many in the league despise. Finally, bringing up something from 1946, when I wasn’t even born, were you? Really? So, silly. I am sure if I started looking back into the Pats’ history, I would find more dirt on the team as well. But guess what? I have better things to do with my time, like cleaning my toilet bowl.
Finally, since I am an objective fan, unlike some of you, yes Lilac, I agree the Giants do not look good again this year, but I have also suspected that early on in past seasons when they went on to win two Super Bowls, so I will reserve my judgement. However, I cannot deny that I have my doubts.
I also concur that Eli does not deserve the money he is being paid. It seems like he is on the down curve of his career. The issue is there are no great quarterbacks coming out from the college divisions, so it is a conundrum.
Well, at least he didn’t get photographed letting some “nanny” wear his Super Bowl rings on a flight to Vegas, and his wife doesn’t throw his teammates under a bus and completely emasculate him, so there’s that…LOL!
@LeAnn Stinks- Can you clean my toilet bowl too? Seriously, it’s my least-favorite job after scooping the kitty litter.
But seriously, it’s all good in the name of fandom. You don’t sound objective to me, but I’m not very objective myself so that’s fair.
I apologize if I was overly-aggressive in my comments but as you can see, it’s a subject I’m passionate about.
Well, at least we both agree that LeAnne stinks? 😉
Yes, she stinks big time. Maybe, we can both get her to clean our toilets? After all, she resides there, LOL! Cheers!
@Kitten, yeah, my only point was that he didn’t directly contribute to the SB win, so I didn’t think it was a fair comparison.
like I said, it’s all good. I dig where you’re coming from.
Let’s go Big Blue Wrecking Crew!
Kitten/Leann Stinks/Everyone else.
I think i’ve found some common ground here. We can all agree on 1 thing Eli and the Giants look terrible 😀
The marriage consulting divorce lawyers rumours are just starting, who knows where Giselle or Tom will be in two years?
LeeAnn: BB is the devil. His initials are the same as a bed bug, here to do nothing but cause chaos and destruction. I didn’t realize how many Bostonians were on this site and how defensive they were of Brady. He is so unamusingly arrogant to me, almost as much as his wife. I hear the NFL will appeal this decision…personally I wish they wouldn’t….don’t need yet another debacle regarding this team and in particular Belichek and Brady. I’ve never been to Boston, my husband went to Northeastern and has nothing but good things to say about the city. Good luck to the Giants and in my corner, go Cavs! @Kitten, relax, you won.
Nancy,
We are in complete simpatico. You comments about BB are dead on and hysterical. At least some of the reasonable Pats fans I have met, and believe me they do exist (lol), admit Bellicheat is shady.
Good luck to your Cavs next year, with LeBron there, I don’t think you have much to worry about. You will win a championship sooner rather than later. Thanks for your kind words about my Giants, we are going to need it-LOL! 🙂
Ysoh
I know! Sort of. Where ever they will be. Giselle will be as wealthy as she is now while Tom a little less. That is if their agreement is to be believed. That Giselle squirrels her money away and all family expenses are on Tom entirely.
Now, now FLORC, I admitted that my confidence in my team is questionable for now, but I never said they looked terrible, and as I have stated before they have proven me wrong in the past.
Say what you want about Eil Manning, but that year he kept taking repeated beatings from the ’49ners defense in the playoffs, shrugged it off and kept throwing great passes, was one his best performances, ever. I have seen plenty of other QB’s cry and complain to refs for what can only be considered barely a brush. Manning took a serious beating, never complained once, and kept going.
As I stated before, I remain a concerned Giants fan, but I hope to be proven wrong.
BTW, not that it matters, because it is only the preseason, but they did beat the Pats tonight in Foxboro. GO BIG BLUE WRECKING CREW.
From ESPN’s super-inaccurate reporting to Goodell’s grandstanding, this entire deflategate thing was nonsense from the start.
Oh, brother.
For the final time… The was NO reason of concern re: Brady getting rid of his phone!! It was irrelevant- they had the conversations via the other phones!!!
Man, people are thick.
I’m arguing with a friend on Facebook right now about this very thing. Bills fan who is still focusing on the exploding cellphone nonsense. LOL
1) The entire Wells Report was based on the notion that Brady was in collusion with Jas and McNally to deflate the footballs. The NFL confiscated both Jas and McNally’s phones and retrieved all of their text messages (none of which were actually TO Brady BTW) so shouldn’t they have everything they need?
2) Wells TOLD Brady (and this was verified by Wells under oath during Brady’s appeal) that he would NOT be penalized for not turning over his phone and that they had everything they needed.
3) Submitted in court was a written request by Brady asking for text messages from AT&T for the time period in question. He was told that they only retain messages for 3 days on their server. What guilty man does that?
4) Would YOU turn over your cellphone to your employer? I would quit before I would let my boss go through my phone–and I’m not a famous person married to another famous person. And I don’t belong to a union telling me not to turn over my phone as there’s collective bargaining info and other private information that could compromise the players union.
5) Brady turned over ALL the information that was required of him and was deemed “fully cooperative” by Wells, until Wells discovered they had ZERO evidence and decided to publicly smear Brady as “uncooperative.”
Kitten , exactly yet the truth doesnt matter to any of these people, they just want to throw h*te on Brady and the Pats just because they can. When you ask them to back it up with actual facts they can’t. They throw out some media quote and don’t even understand what they are saying. It’s hilarious and pathetic at the same time.
Now if you all will excuse me while I continue my happy dance.
@Tify-Yes! People are still repeating the 11/12 football shit that was RETRACTED by Mortensen who publicly apologized for reporting a LIE.
It’s unreal. I hope Kraft does something to get those picks back…
Eh, the truth doesn’t matter when you hate Tom Brady and the Pats. This is a huge slap in the NFL’s face for scapegoating the Pats. This should have never gone on as long as it did and I applaud Brady for not taking the suspension. There was no reason why he should have.
Wow! I confess I was suspicious of the cell phone debacle but when provided Kitten’s info ( usually I dig deeper b4 damning someone ) but I’m re-thinking Brady’s role. Thanks for bringing clarity to this Kitten!
People hear what they want to hear, and extrapolate what they want to extrapolate, for the most part.
JUSTICE!
NFL was on a witch hunt from the start. Goodell needs to go, Brady was always innocent.
Commish needs to do the right thing and let the Patriots take the equipment guys off of the suspended list too. And give their draft picks back
*high fives*
This might be a stupid question but why does the federal court have any say in the NFL (legitimate question, not sarcastic or bitter)
The federal collective bargaining statute allows very narrow appeal rights on arbitration decisions stemming from all union contracts. The court cannot rule on the facts, only on whether the decision complied with the statute and CBA
Because it was an arbitration appeal, just like any other huge business with a management/union dispute.
I think there was something on Brady’s phone that made it worth destroying, I highly doubt that it had anything to do with deflated footballs.
I had said the same thing.
d*ck pics? or pics of Giz? but I agree whatever it was wasn’t related to the BALLS.
Possibly, though the posters above point out that it could very well have been the info between Brady and the NFLPA about the Collective Bargaining process, which would be incredibly valuable.
Yeah I still wouldn’t want to turn over my phone. He offered to obtain text transcripts and call logs. Beyond that, he didn’t owe them anything. And given how leaky the NFL was during this whole process, and apparently the Patriots thought the league was intentionally leaking info to make the team look bad, I wouldn’t trust them to maintain my privacy throughout the process even if I did turn over my phone. It was a ridiculous request to begin with.
The whole thing was just a bunch of nonsense.
And honestly I don’t see Brady destroying his phone as any kind of evidence of his supposed guilt. Especially with the rumored marriage trouble, who knows what texts or photos were there. A former nfl player even said this week said on ESPN that no married player wants to give his phone to nfl, since they all have stuff there they don’t want their wives to see if those texts become public due to leaks or later due to court case such as what happened with Brady.
As I said above, I would sooner get fired than turn over my cell phone to my boss.
And unless it is a company phone, no boss has the right to have it.
Exactly.
Good. It’s been nothing but ridiculous from the start. How Goddell thought he would get away with a 4-game suspension based on nothing more than “well, he could have known about it and didn’t do anything about it” was beyond me.
Good. Hopefully everyone can forget about this ridiculous nonevent now
No idea what Berman looks like but I’m in love with him. This decision drips and oozes sarcasm and snark on every line of its 40 pages. I just love a snarky judge.
And this was the judge the NFL wanted. It will teach the owners to forum shop.
YES YES YES.
If Brady wins the appeal, i don’t know what the NFL does.
Owners will need to limit goodell’s powers or keep losing
Yes! He renamed the Wells Report to the Pash/Wells Report and put quotation marks around “independent”! I heart it so very much!
I really do not get the Brady hate on this site. Goodell and the NFL were clearly in the wrong. I’m so happy others are defending Brades.
Maybe the nfl can focus on the safety of their players now !!!CTE!!!
Well Tom has messed up fantasy football again! He was picked up later because everyone thought he was going to be out the first four games. lol
Deflategate aside, that man can really rock a suit.
Being in professional sports these days is more than ever brutal . I am convinced every team / person that is on top is probably cheating somehow it’s just a matter of getting caught or not. The expectations and records have been set so high it’s just humanly impossible to keep up . The athletes are expected to keep outperforming and being increasingly better, whereas their bodies can only handle so much. Of course there is cheating/manipulation constantly and everywhere, but most aren’t getting caught. People still want believe in magic though! I don’t support what he did and I believe he had part in it. However, I don’t think anyone else wouldn’t have done it if they were supported by their higher ups and thought they would get away with it. In the end maybe the commissioner and judge thought it wouldn’t be cost effective ( for reasons we may never know) to punish him. Money and fame wins again. What a surprise
Well, let’s break this down to specifics. “Everyone cheats in the NFL,” but different factions have different motives about it:
–The players want to exonerate the Pats on the supposition that they can’t be successful in the league without cheating. Which is true. You can’t play offensive line in the NFL without holding occasionally. But their motive is the monetary benefits they earn from personal and/or team success.
–The owners and league officials have proven themselves more than willing to turn a blind eye to cheating (e.g., steroid use) when it benefits them monetarily.
–The fans will often forgive cheating by their team or individual players for the sake of winning, but overall they want fair play. So they are the only interested party with an altruistic motive for wanting competitive fairness.
But it’s the spoiled players, incompetent league officials and greedy owners who run the NFL. The fans, ultimately, get no say–although stripping the league of all antitrust protection might be a start.
Whether something is cost effective is not in the judge’s jurisdiction. Nor would it matter.
Eh, the NFL will appeal…and eventually win. Goodell may be an ass, but the judge’s decision is a mass of sophistry. His reasoning on denial of due process wouldn’t stand up in a night school moot court. The whole point of legal arbitration, flawed though it is, is to avoid bad judgements based on narrowly-argued legal technicalities. On appeal this judgement will be reversed because the intent of Federal arbitration law is clear and this judge bent over backwards and jumped through hoops to vacate what was clearly a legal arbitration ruling.
What really matters is the opinion of NFL fans. I’m a McDonald’s as I write this, eavesdropping on five old farts (i.e., typical NFL fans) discussing the ruling. Their opinion: it’s just the Pats and Brady using the legal system to get away with more cheating. This is Niner territory, mind you. So because of Brady and Belicheck the Pats end up with a tarnished championship and more derision heaped on their supposed “dynasty.”
Actually, the opinions of NFL fans really don’t matter unless they stop buying tickets and watching games by the millions. Which they won’t. And many teams will charge their fans more for games against the Patriots and those fans will pay.
Also night school moot court grads have to pass the same bar exams with the same multi-state due process questions as fancy day law school grads and some have higher pass rates.
Now, what were you saying just last week about Berman sending Brady a message to give it up?
LMFAO
Go, Lilac!
Tonight’s tailgate parties in Foxboro will be insane
I know! My boss has season tix and he gave a pair to a nice woman that we work with so she can bring her son who just started playing football. I’m happy for them. I got to see the first game of the pre-season where Brady made an unexpected appearance and that was special in its own right.
Foxboro will be out of control tonight though. lol
side note: Foxboro is where I saw my first Dead show, back in 1989.
yup, that’s all.
oh, and LET’S GO GIANTS!
That’s awesome Doofus! I can only imagine what that stadium smelled like…lol
Must have been a LOT of lighting up 😉
it was glorious. I think anyone’s first show is quite an experience, but I think it was also the first time I did anything…um…”harder” than the green. I bought a crystal, I tried to learn skateboarding tricks, helped a naked woman find her group…
…and the car I was in ran out of gas just as we were getting on the highway to go home. like, we coasted down the exit ramp, onto the highway, and rolled to a stop about 10 yards away from an emergency call box. The MA state troopers came to our rescue, though…good times.
Maybe they’ll burn the city down. Great fans.
Stadium isn’t near the city
I’ve no horse in this race, but objectively, Brady was involved; the evidence is compelling. Four games is too many. But this whole thing was ridiculous on many many levels.
Doesn’t improve my opinion about Brady though. He’ll always be an entitled d8uchebag to me from now on. Just his smug smirk on the way out of court is enough to make me want to throw a glass of red wine on his expensive suit.
Blech! Go away Tom. And by extension, Gisele, too.
Seriously, what is this “compelling evidence” of which you speak? Care to list a few examples?
Kitten is here to help you learn the truth.
Objectively, meaning you have evidence and not just a personal opinion? You should contact Goodell with that important and compelling information.
Berman seemed to think that the fact that the Colts equipment guys played around with the Patriots’s ball before reporting it to the referee was compelling.
Jeez, soxfan, for a Patriots fan you sure have a short memory. In the ’86 Super Bowl the Bears didn’t care what offense the Pats lined up in. They just lined up in their 46 Defense and crushed them, and Tony Eason spent the game running for his life. Remember? They dominated with sheer aggression and talent.
The 90’s Cowboys were a dynasty because they lined up that huge o-line and crushed whatever defenses were stacked in front of them. Playing the 70’s Steelers was like being buried under anvils on both sides of the ball. They didn’t win by exploiting, the won by dominating.
When have the Belicheck-era Pats dominated anyone? Notice how quickly their “perfect season” team has been forgotten outside of New England. That’s because they lost to a relatively weak Giants team. What “dynasty” does that?
“I’ve no horse in this race, but objectively, Brady was involved; the evidence is compelling.”
Exactly. The history of the tarnished Deflate-gate championship has been written and no number of screeching Pats fans can unring that bell. Football fans will remember the Pats ball boy skulking in the toilet deflating balls, not the arcane sophistry of a Federal judge. Brady and Belicheck will be remembered as cheaters, not champions.
…still waiting for the “compelling evidence”…..
Proclaiming something over and over again doesn’t make it true.
…So why don’t you lay out this “compelling evidence” for me?
Because I guarantee that I will have an answer for your “compelling evidence” and my answer will be taken RIGHT from The Wells Report or right out of Brady’s appeal transcripts.
Roger, didn’t that “arcane sophistry” come from the very same federal judge whom you claimed was trying to send Brady the message to give it up just last week?
Oh, please…history will not remember Deflategate as anything more than a joke and egg on Goodell’s face. What they will remember is that Brady & Belicheck built a dynasty that won 4 (possibly more…there’s time) championships. There is no compelling evidence that Brady deflated the balls or even knew what was going on. What there is evidence of is the fact that the Pats scored more points after the balls were discovered than before.
Is “sophistry” the word of the day?
“Proclaiming something over and over again doesn’t make it true.”
Massive hypocrisy!!! That’s exactly what Boston fans do, all the frickin’ time! Walk into any Boston bar and assert that the Mets won the ’86 World Series legitimately…and you will get ten different theories as to how the Sox were robbed by the umps, the league, Mookie’s corked bat or an Illuminati conspiracy. And probably get a pitcher of beer dumped on your as well.
There is plenty of compelling evidence:
–The Pats equipment guy was caught on camera sneaking the game balls into the bathroom when he was supposed to take them straight from the ref’s pressure check to the field.
–The balls were found to be deflated.
–Brady was shown to have told the Pats equipment guys how he wanted his game balls to be set up.
–Brady destroyed his cell phone.
The original ruling was a finding of cheating and coverup of cheating in a pro sports league, not a murder conviction under US criminal law. A preponderance of evidence is a perfectly valid standard for determining that the Pats cheated, with Brady’s involvement. The judge’s vacating of the ruling on the basis of arcane and exacting application of due process law is not appropriate in this instance, and he will be overturned on appeal.
Shame, because I do love watching the Red Sox beat the Yankees just to shut up _their_ obnoxious fans. But if there’s one group more obnoxious and irrational than Westboro Baptists, it’s Boston fans. But even they can’t change the judgement of average NFL fans, which is that last season Brady and Belicheck cheated their way to the Super Bowl.
“What they will remember is that Brady & Belicheck built a dynasty that won 4 (possibly more…there’s time) championships.”
What dynasty?
–Drilled into the turf by not-that-great Giants teams for two championship losses.
–Backed into two championships due to mistakes by teams that were clearly dominating them in the Super Bowl (Rams, Seahawks).
–Won two rings legitimately.
Wow, some dynasty. No surprise, it’s the Seahawks who are the top pick of most major sports media to win the Super Bowl this season, not the Pats “dynasty.”
@Ruckhappy, yes, the history of the 2015 Super Bowl has been written. With the final seconds ticking down and just inches away from scoring a winning touchdown, Pete Carroll opted not to have his QB hand off to the league’s best running back but to toss it into the waiting hands of Patriots player Malcolm Butler. And if Butler hadn’t been in the way, the next pair of hands in that ball’s trajectory belonged to Gronk.
No, the Colts weren’t in the Super Bowl and they apparently checked out of the AFC championship game at halftime when balls were being weighed.
And Brady wasn’t on the field for the most important play of the Super Bowl, unless he drank poly juice potion to turn him into the Seattle QB
They legitimately won 4 rings. If you want to crow about the Giants’ win, then let’s say they only won 1 ring because the ball bouncing off the head of the Pats’ player and falling into the hands of the Giants receiver wasn’t really skill as luck, so let’s throw that win out the window. And I’m sorry, but how is it the Pats’ fault the Seahawks screwed up? Punch the ball into the end zone with your massive running back and this is a different story, but they didn’t. Are you telling me Belicheck was able to trick Pete Carroll into calling a pass play instead of a run? Was it cheating to intercept the ball or…what? Cause I’m not understanding what you’re saying about their wins.
You don’t like the Pats. That’s fine, but there was no evidence that the 1-2 PSI decrease in the balls’ pressure caused the Pats to have an unfair advantage over the Colts’ woeful defense. Or had any effect on the fact that the Colts’ offense couldn’t score against the Pats either before or after the balls were corrected.
@Ruckhappy, the Red Sox lost the 1986 World Series because their manager stupidly left tired pitchers and disabled Bill Buckner in too long in Game 6, causing them to lose what should have been the clinching game and a game 7 to exist, which the Mets won squarely. And nobody here tells that story any differently than I just did.
As the judge you liked so much just last week found, there was no evidence, compelling or otherwise, that anyone, let alone Tom Brady, had any involvement in deflating footballs.
As I have repeatedly told you, the standard for suspension/termination is “clear and convincing”, not simple preponderance and your repeated claims otherwise is not going to change decades of judicial precedent.
Four championships in 15 years with two additional conference titles, and additional playoff appearances, does make a dynasty. Seasons consist of more than just one game.
You know, I actually don’t really care if the Pars repeat this year. I’m more into hockey right now. But even then, I’m not greedy. Our 4 teams have given us 9 championships in 15 years. And there have been some Frozen Four titles too. I’m happy. But what you really don’t get about New England fans; we simply do not care what others think. Since the early days of Auerbach, we never have.
“They legitimately won 4 rings.” No, you win legitimately by clearly out-playing your opponent. I have run into any number of Steeler fans who admit that the Seahawks beat Pittsburgh in the Super Bowl, only to have the win overturned by the referees. Likewise, the Pats defense was backpedalling on that last drive in the last Super Bowl, already defeated. Then Seattle made a critical error and handed the Pats the game. That doesn’t mean the Pats _won_ the game, though; they just didn’t lose. Same thing with the Rams handing the Pats a championship via turnovers. “Bank error in your favor” does not connote victory, just lack of failure.
Seriously, the dynasty talk really makes Pats fans sound insecure. Seattle could easily be 3-0 in the Super Bowl, but if they were I wouldn’t compare them to the Walsh-era Niners or 70’s Steelers. The rest of the country looks at Pats fans and thinks, “Grow up. Get real.”
“You don’t like the Pats.” No, I think Brady is whiny and overrated, and Boston fans are obnoxious, but I’ve genuinely admired great Pats like Steve Grogan and Jim Hannah. The cheating isn’t even what I find most annoying about the Belicheck-era Pats; it’s that they’re boring to watch. Never dominant, just good enough to take advantage of the weaknesses/mistakes of their opponents. Only Boston fans have the gall to compare the Pats to Auerbach’s Celtics and Brady to Bill Russell. Shame on you, you know better.
“But what you really don’t get about New England fans; we simply do not care what others think.”
I’m just going to say this next time, instead of engaging. You summed it up nicely, Lilacflowers.
@Ruckhappy, you are the one who keeps bringing up dynasties; nobody compared Belichick and Auerbach or Russell and Brady – that certainly wasn’t my context when I brought up Auerbach; a football championship requires more than one win a season; and again, New England fans do not need your approval; and you might want to reflect before accusing others of whining.
“But what you really don’t get about New England fans; we simply do not care what others think.”
Yes, that’s called denial. Except in your case you claim you don’t care what the rest of NFL fans think, then insist you know exactly what they think and that they agree with you that the Pats have been exonerated. Can’t have it both ways, cookie.
“New England fans do not need your approval.” Exactly, because they don’t heed any approval that does not issue from their own mouth. Which is the very definition of an obnoxiously self-centered sports fan.
Has it not occurred to you that because of Deflate-gate and Hollywood Tommy’s smirk the Pats are going to be booed all season at away games? The backlash is going to be a serious issue for the team, made far worse because of the attitude of Pats fans. Don’t talk to me about whining. Nobody hates the Seahawks or Seattle fans. Instead, look in a mirror.
Ruckhappy,
I agree, the Steelers are definitely a dynasty. I am not ashamed to admit that Terry Bradshaw is one of my all time favorite quarterbacks.
Ruckhappy,
Away teams are always booed. If not, then you might be playing in a city that doesn’t support the home team.
And for the record, I’m not from New England or Boston. I’m from Atlanta. I don’t have dynasties to crow about. I do know football, though. And I know that Goodell is trying to save face with the appeal which will go nowhere. There was no clear and compelling evidence of cheating. The Colts got beat. The Seahawks beat themselves. And the Pats are the reigning champions.
Mia, the game balls went into the bathroom properly inflated in the possession of a Pats equipment guy and came out under inflated. Nobody challenges that chain of events, and that’s cheating. Goodell has strong powers to enforce competitive fairness that don’t require him to meet Federal evidentiary standards, despite what Judge Berman seems to think. He has the powers, under league rules and the CBA, to conclude that Brady was a co-conspirator and suspend him in addition to punishing the team for cheating. So his chances of getting Berman’s ruling overturned on appeal are pretty good.
As to whether the NFL is serious about pursuing the appeal, apparently the number of team owners supporting Goodell has grown. This ruling leaves the NFL’s antitrust protection weakened, and the owners are afraid of the NFLPA being able to use it to get much more expensive rulings overturned. This ruling is bad business for the owners, and they have plenty of money and incentive to keep appealing. It’s not about saving face for Goodell. He already knows that the owners are going to fire him as soon as they can conveniently do so.
The Greatest Show on Earth beat out High Noon for the Best Picture Oscar, but everyone agrees that High Noon is the great classic film. All that fighting Deflate-gate has done for the Pats is enlarge the metaphorical asterisk on their championship. Especially if the Seahawks go back and win this year. Then they’ll be the three-peat-but-for-Brady’s-balls dynasty.
“…Never dominant, just good enough to take advantage of the weaknesses/mistakes of their opponents…”
OMG-this is the definition of HOW TEAMS WIN, i.e., by taking advantage of the weaknesses and/or mistakes of their opponents. I am really not sure if you are just trolling us all at this point???
Jeez, soxfan, for a Patriots fan you sure have a short memory. In the ’86 Super Bowl the Bears didn’t care what offense the Pats lined up in. They just lined up in their 46 Defense and crushed them, and Tony Eason spent the game running for his life. Remember? They dominated with sheer aggression and talent.
The 90′s Cowboys were a dynasty because they lined up that huge o-line and crushed whatever defenses were stacked in front of them. Playing the 70′s Steelers was like being buried under anvils on both sides of the ball. They didn’t win by exploiting, the won by dominating.
When have the Belicheck-era Pats dominated anyone? Notice how quickly their “perfect season” team has been forgotten outside of New England. That’s because they lost to a relatively weak Giants team. What “dynasty” does that?
You are truly fixated on the word “dynasty”, here aren’t ya?? Me thinks you are just bu*t hurt that Brady got the suspensions lifted because of your irrational hatred of Boston and its fans. I am really scratching my head here on your insistent Patriots aren’t dominant/not a dynasty theme. Teams win by taking advantage of their opponents weaknesses and mistakes all the time. One might say that this strategy worked REALLY WELL here since the Pats did win it all last year, non?
@Ruckhappy, your concern about the Patriots getting booed is really almost sweet. Really. I don’t care. Most pro athletes will tell you they thrive on the boos.
No, there was no evidence that the footballs game out of the men’s room deflated. Even the NFL doesn’t argue that one. The balls sat outside in the cold for over an hour before testing.
Except that Tommy boy has a tendency to sulk and shout at his receivers when the team gets behind on the road. Deflate-gate following him around on the road all season is just going to make that worse.
As to ball inflation, on that I can claim to be an expert. I kicked for my my college rugby side, which requires something like 20-40 punts, drop kicks and penalty goal attempts per match. That is, you kick as much as much as an NFL QB throws, and I was very picky about the condition of our match ball for home fixtures. You can just about break your foot trying to punt a cold, overinflated ball.
I also played plenty of American football and I worked three summers as a camp counselor, inflating and repairing every kind of ball known to human recreation. I know my balls. I was also a physics honors student and, yes, understand gas thermodynamics quite well. In all my years of handling balls, I have never once seen one noticeably “deflate” due to a change in external ambient air temperature.
Balls get heavy when wet, get warmer and livelier with extended play, but they don’t go cold all on their own. The rubber bladder in a typical leather football makes for very effective thermodynamic insulation. Balls get warmer via kinetic energy transference from being kicked or thrown around, but you can’t reduce the air pressure in a football short of doing it via conduction by plunging it in ice water.
_The only way I have seen a proper (i.e., not leaking) football deflated is by removing air with a needle valve_! Ever. Thus if the balls in the Colts game were pumped up to regulation pressure by the refs, and then were light a pound or two in pressure when rechecked by the refs, someone let air out of the balls. It’s the only way, short of certain theoretical applications of quantum physics.
Cheaters Never Win & Winners Never Cheat. *I think they’re afraid of his wife*
Nanny gate lol
Not a Pats fan, but when wife beaters, child beaters and players who take drugs are suspended for less games than this, there is a problem with the system.
Ooooooo! They play my team first, huh?
This gon’ be guuuuuuud!!!!
I see the photos in this post and I have to wonder if this man is made of flesh and blood, more likely he is 100% ego.
Marriage with him cannot be comfortable.
Dude’s just lucky to be in a union. #solidarityforever
Unbelievable! I knew that judge was on Brady’s side and I’m glad NFL is appealing. Something fishy how the judge made it apparent he was on Brady’s side from the beginning. If Brady got to the judge by some way I would not be surprised one bit. This is shady as he*ll and no wonder the Pats have cheated all along since they are never, ever properly punished.
Let’s be real …. I believe Brady and the Pats have been cheating for years …years!
Well if you *believe* it, then it must be true!!!!
Kitten- I thought this might be the best place to put this so you would see it.
I just want to say, I freaking ADORE you! You are one of the best things about the CB comment section. I hope that me rooting for my Steelers against the Pats doesn’t make you think I believe all this crap that has been heaped on Brady. I just LOVES me some football and was born in PA, still live here, and am a die hard Steeler fan. The Steelers have their own problematic history, which, is way worse than DeflateGate IMO. Just want you to know all this when I say….I hope the Steelers kick their butts! *hugs*
Right. And Whitey Bulger was framed.
Seriously, how can you deny the allegations that came out from other AFC teams about Pats cheating when the Colts complained about the game balls? Clearly, their conference rivals think that the Pats have been cheating. Are they all jealous?
Past a certain point the denial gets ludicrous.
And, so have many others.
No strong opinions on the decision itself, but based on this (and other threads on this topic), the Patriots have some of the worst fans (and that’s saying something) – discourteous, disrespectful of others, whiny when things don’t go their way and obnoxious and gloating when they do. Hopefully not all fans are like the ones on this thread.
Right??? I am so disgusted by how rude the Pat’s fans are today. I don’t even follow football, but, wow!!! Gloating, condescending, one person above called me stupid. Do they think that being so rude will convince anyone that their team plays fair?? No. It just makes people think that the Pats fans are the least objective fans in the league: they are all the Fairy Godmother and will sprinkle you with fairy dust if you only defend them.
I would love to see the Patriots pick up and move someplace that offers them more money. You know they would do it in a NY second!!! And then what would their fans say???
Hartford offered more money. They didn’t go
“Hopefully not all fans are like the ones on this thread.”
Unfortunately, they are. I watched the Super Bowl in neutral territory–a bar at the SLC airport. Seahawk fans were in the majority, but it was to deal with the Pats fans that the bar staff had to call airport police. Loudly drunk. Obnoxious. Philly fans might be more violent, but Boston fans peg the meter for sheer obnoxiousness.
Well, I’m Irish, but sadly, there is much truth in the saying that the Irish and alcohol don’t do well together. And the Patriots have a huge contingent of Irish fans. Alcohol + sports fans + Irish = Loud, Obnoxious, Rude and 911.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of the pile on. Not everyone is going to side with Brady simply because of the extreme rivalries that are part of professional sports. Sure, I have seen people outside of New England say that the facts state that Brady didn’t do anything to tamper with the game balls, but most of the ardent defense comes from Bostonians/New Englanders/Pats fans. Rivalry is simply just part of professional sports and people outside of New England are probably not going to like Brady. The Yankees have an amazing record but people still passionately hate them and say “they suck” all the time. At some point you have to realize that without these die hard rivalries, professional sports lose a lot of their appeal. No reason to call people stupid, pile on one commentor and say it’s like talking to a brick wall. Your team’s record stands on its own, you are proud of your team… it’s not your job to convince the nay sayers because you probably never will. I doubt a Jets, Giants, Colts, Ravens fan will suddenly say “yeah you’re right Tom Brady is awesome and I’m so glad the suspension was lifted.”
@BB, so true, although I admit, as a Sox fan, to loving Mariano Rivera. When a rivalry is truly great, you can admit and recognize true excellence and class in an opponent. Rivera had it
YAY, TOMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My favorite part of this story is how the NFL admitted that nobody on their side had ever heard of the Ideal Gas Law, so they didn’t incorporate in into their analysis. Science: only for nerds!
I lived in Boston for 2 miserable years, and currently live in NYC, so I have a legitimately earned dislike off Boston sports, but I’m also an engineer, and the whole story of how the balls were measured and the so-called investigation stinks to high heaven. I’m sure Brady would do anything to win, just like every other quarterback in the league. But I honestly think he was set up; I just can’t figure out why.
Welcome to NY, do you root for any of our NFL teams per chance? 🙂
I dislike douchey Bradey but still agree with the decision. Mediation should be governed by an unbiased observer, which the NFL claims Goddell is. But he can’t be due to his job description and his priority to the NFL. Therefore any decision he makes will almost always be overturned by a judge. Just see all the past nfl cases…
Everyone cheats in football. From piping in extra noise in stadiums, using stick-em on gloves, using PEDs, stealing signs, and deflating/inflating footballs to each quarterbacks liking. Is it right? Of course not-cheating is wrong. But EVERYONE does it.
No, this was hashed out when the Pats were originally dinged for deflating game balls. There were a lot of stories with quotes from players and coaches admitting that everyone cheated a little, but that the Pats were cheating a lot. Unfortunately, most of the quotes were anonymous but they were confirmed by veteran NFL reporters stating that the consensus was that the Pats were cheating more than the norm.
Even the Niners, under saintly Bill Walsh, were accused of leg-whipping. Turned out they were using a blocking technique that was legal but frowned upon. The Seahawks used to run pick plays to peel DB’s off of Steve Largent over the middle. But nobody accused either team of being systematic cheaters.
http://yourteamcheats.com/SEA
http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2015/01/21/nfl-cheating-deflatgate-patriots
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482500/article/atlanta-falcons-lose-2016-pick-for-pumping-fake-noise
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/30/nfl-may-take-a-closer-look-at-gloves/
Seriously? This took me all of 3 minutes to find and there are many more examples.
My comment is awaiting moderation and I think it is because I have posted links, which may or may not be allowed here but I found numerous examples of cheating by other teams by searching for 2 minutes. Go to your team cheats and look for any team, search atlanta falcons lose 2016 draft pic for pumping in fake noise, and nfl to take a closer look at gloves due to players using stickum. Again, there are so many more examples of teams cheating. I am baffled at your obtuseness here.
One last thing. Nobody in the sports media seems to have read the judge’s ruling closely yet, but it seems to be opening a loophole allowing NFL players to get suspensions for domestic violence or other violent crimes off the field vacated in court. That’s right, you ardent defenders of Hollywood Tommy: just so’s your special snowflake can skate on actual cheating, the wife-beaters are going to be going to court to preserve their game checks. And they are going to have much stronger grounds for getting off.
So keep that in mind, women Pats fans, when the next Ray Rice case comes along and the NFL can’t suspend the guy due to the Brady Precedent.
He didn’t cheat. Repeating it a million times doesn’t make it true.
And denying that he cheated doesn’t make that true. What is this, the Argument Clinic sketch? “This isn’t an argument, this is just contradiction!”
Actually, no, it doesn’t do that at all. There are contract provisions that can directly apply in those cases; none did here, and there is the major issue of needing evidence. Victim’s statements meets that.
Yes, it does, because those clauses depend on the laws protecting the CBA to resist an antitrust attack, and this decision tears a big hole in that. This decision grants strict procedural due process for a player to challenge a punishment for cheating, which is clearly within the powers of the commissioner to adjudicate. It’s an absurd precedent. Whoever said the 14th Amendment was written to protect pro athletes in the private commercial practice of pro sports?
But procedural due process is definitely intended to protect the right of those accused of criminal conduct to be regarded as innocent until a felony conviction, which Goodell has been violating by handing out suspensions for DV and other crimes _prior to trial_. Everyone said that relying on his supposedly specifically enumerated authority under the CBA to punish off-field violent behavior was a weak argument for assuming exemption from due process. It’s not as if the NFL is a fully-protected sports monopoly, after all.
There are already players planning to challenge their suspensions based on Berman’s ruling. Already.
You want your cake and to eat it to. You want your pretty boy exonerated and the wife-beaters to be banned from playing. You can’t have both, legally.
Actually, yes, I can. BTW, in the past year, I handled two appeals in which arbitrators reinstated employees after the employer fired them for domestic violence. The judges overturned the arbitrators both times and those wife beaters were never allowed back in those jobs. Arbitrators have to follow rules. Goodell did not – Goodell cheated
@Lilacflowers- (My favorite flower, btw)
You are a voice of reason here with your legal knowledge and I thank you! Would you please read this https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/did-players-hand-roger-goodell-too-much-authority-answer-isnt-simple/2015/05/29/44fe7648-0648-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html and explain exactly what it is saying? Thanks, so much!
Right, and those fired employees had recourse to seek employment elsewhere. But the NFL is a sports monopoly, and when the commissioner suspends a player he is effectively banning them from all employment in their trade. The NFL has tried to claim that foreign leagues constitute a separate avenue of employment and, I believe, have lost consistently.
Thus why the antitrust implications of Berman’s ruling are so critical, despite you arbitrarily dismissing them out of hand.
I dismiss your antitrust arguments about Berman’s decision because there are no anti-trust implications in Berman’s decision, just as the decision does not alter any cba provisions against domestic violence. If the commissioner follows the rules for imposing discipline, then the discipline holds. Goodell did not follow the rules and his actions were overturned accordingly.
@Soxfan, layday has raised that issue elsewhere on this thread and on earlier threads. The NFL CBA is odd in that it allows the commissioner the power to impose discipline AND serve as an arbitrator, which does seem like a conflict of interest and a great deal of power that employees would not want an employer to have but there is a provision in the CBA that prohibits him from arbitrating his own actions. However, this clause or similar ones have been in place for decades. The commissioner is the sole authority for imposing league discipline on teams and players and he cannot delegate that per the CBA. For some things, (missing practice, DUI, whatever, a team can impose its own discipline. The CBA provides the union with grievance rights when discipline is imposed. In the past decades, prior to Goodell, on cases involving a team disciplining a player, the commissioner had authority to arbitrate but on cases involving discipline imposed by the league, an independent arbitrator would decide the grievance – and this has ALWAYS worked in the past. Goodell, however, has taken to ruling on his own actions instead of delegating and has been overturned by federal courts every single time – he’s not learning from his mistakes. In this case, Goodell delegated discipline to Vincent, which the NFLPA contended was in violation of the CBA. The union grieved that delegation and, instead of recusing himself and referring it to an arbitrator, Goodell ruled that he had the authority to hear the case. The judge says no. The NFLPA did try to have this clause removed from the most recent CBA during negotiations but the NFL was only willing to do so if they agreed to play more games. Things have to give in negotiations and that’s what gave in this one.
@Lilacflowers-
Thanks, so much for your explanation. I appreciate your writing back.
Smug cheater
Did anyone really think the great white Golden Football Boy God was going down? lol
Regardless of the outcome, he’s tainted and he has a lot of hate out there, I mean Kanye level hate,,,but also massive fans.
I was on the east coast just two weeks ago this Summer and a school friend of mine has a son who just made it to a Pro Football, East Coast team, we were watching her son in a playoff game and I asked a room full of people ( we were at a house party, doctors, executives, teachers, blue collar workers) so I asked the room what did they think of Tom Brady and the scandal and the room said in unison “CHEATER!”
I didn’t even really know much about inflate gate….I was just asking them out of curiosity.
lol
Go Pats. This was a stupid case that turned out to have no merit but the men in charge refused to back down. Good for Brady for not rolling over and taking unjustified punishment. It happens to lesser known players all the time wildly inconsistent penalties and unfair treatment is normal. That union needs to get their acts together.
Look, I support the NFLPA but this case could set a precedent that will play havoc with the salary cap and many other rules and agreements that protect the fan’s interests. This opens the door to next year’s rookies suing to overturn the rookie salary schedule and we’ll be back to watching massively overpaid washouts riding the bench of our favorite teams. The CBA isn’t going to be worth the paper it’s written on. All because some playboy QB wouldn’t agree to a settlement admitting cheating that he probably was involved in. Worse, a Republican-dominated Congress could grant the NFL even stronger antitrust protection and the owners will screw the fans even worse than they have in the past.
This case has no bearing on the salary cap whatsoever. The precedents in this case involve: notice in disciplinary actions; due process in disciplinary actions; consistency and fairness in disciplinary actions, not rookies or the salary cap.
The CBA is worth nothing if the Commissioner imposes discipline in violation of the CBA procedures
Your second paragraph invalidates your first. If the CBA is worth nothing, all its terms go out the window, including the salary cap, rookie pay schedule, etc. Which is why the NFLPA didn’t really want to sue on Brady’s behalf, because it was aware of the risk of invalidating the CBA. As others are already pointing out, if the commissioner doesn’t even have the powers to enforce basic competition fairness rules, the office is essentially powerless. Antitrust suits by individual players come next and the CBA becomes moot when the current corporate structure of the NFL dissolves, invalidating all the players’ contracts.
Lilacflowers, your personal fantasy of Darth Goodell being humiliated and deposed, and Tommy leading the Pats on to endless championships in the land of milk and honey…ain’t gonna happen. Which, if you’re the attorney you claim to be, you should know already. The NFL can’t survive a concerted attack on antitrust grounds because it is fundamentally operating as an illegal monopoly, albeit with the consent of the NFLPA. This ruling sets a key precedent for individual players bringing antitrust suits.
@Ruckhappy, my personal fantasies don’t involve football players, Roger Goodell or the NFL. Brady is nearing the end of his career so, no, he won’t be leading them to endless championships. I also pointed out that I don’t care if the Patriots win this year. This was not an antitrust suit; it was an arbitration appeal under the collective bargaining statute. Also, bringing an anti-trust suit does not mean an individual will prevail. You do seem to be trying to grasp for rather far-fetched reasons why an employer should be allowed to violate a collective bargaining agreement. You know, I have refrained from going personal on anyone here. You have not. Have a lovely evening.
For people who don’t know the true detail checkout Deadspins coverage today. Its impartial and now that ALL the facts are known hopefully it will help educate.
This is so true. There have been so many false facts reported, beginning with the initial tweet back in January by Chris Mortensen, that there were 11/12 balls that had been deflated. He finally took the false tweet down in July.
Enough with the balls. It was 1 ball. ESPN reported it was 11 balls, even the NFL stated it was only 1.
But don’t let facts get in the way.
WHAT A DOLT!
Don’t worry all….I’m working my voodoo magic on Tom Brady’s ability to throw interceptions vs touchdown ratio. It ain’t gonna be pretty…DIABOLICAL LAUGHTER