As we discussed earlier this week, Eddie Redmayne covers the new issue of GQ UK. Not only did he confess to his “good deed” of paying rent for struggling actors in London, he also chatted with the magazine about his thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner. There’s a very specific background on his comments, because he was asked about some recent comments made by Germaine Greer, one of Britain’s popular “feminist thinkers/political commentators.” Greer recently weighed in on Caitlyn Jenner’s Glamour Woman of the Year award, and Cait’s transition entirely. The comments about the award were stupid – Greer said Caitlyn was trying to steal the Kardashians’ thunder. More problematic were Greer’s comments about transgender people in general. She said in part:
“I think misogyny plays a really big part in all of this, that a man who goes to these lengths to become a woman will be a better woman than someone who is just born a woman…I’m not saying that people should not be allowed to go through that [sex change] procedure. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t make them a woman. It happens to be an opinion. It’s not a prohibition.”
Yeah. You know what exhausts me? The whole “this person is not a real woman” argument. Enough. Anyway, Eddie Redmayne has some thoughts. And they’re good thoughts. He was asked specifically about Greer’s comments and he told GQ UK:
“I completely disagree with what she has to say about Caitlyn in relation to why she is making her show. Of course, Germaine Greer is a woman with extraordinary strength and conviction, but I disagree. It’s a shame to see an instance of feminism and trans issues diminishing each other. But also, it’s quite important that this is a singular instance, and most feminists ally with the transgender. But specifically, I just disagree with her.”
I think he handled that well. I know trans people don’t want a cisgendered actor like Redmayne to be the spokesperson for their cause (nor do they want Caitlyn to be the spokesperson, but that’s another conversation), but I think Redmayne has consistently handled touchy and potentially controversial conversations about and around trans issues with a great deal of thought, delicacy and compassion. And he’s absolutely right: trans issues and feminist issues do not diminish each other. They are not in competition. We are a large, diverse society and we can fight for different things at the same time. We can be feminists and cisgendered trans allies and allies to Black Lives Matter and on and on. It’s not a competition and it’s not as if there can only be ONE oppressed group.
Photos courtesy of GQ UK.
I’m bored by Eddie, Caitlyn AND Germaine Greer so it’s Team No-one!
+1
+1000
I’m so tired of looking at his face.
Double that.
Yep!
The greatest thing rich, white males have done has to turn the rest of us against each other. We should be fighting together. The struggle of one group of oppressed people is the struggle of all oppressed people. Human rights are human rights no matter what form. This or that group gaining certain rights doesn’t diminish or go against rights I have or should have. When those of us not rich, white males figure that out, maybe we will finally fight for human rights together.
A) THIS IS SCALDING TEA #DownWithKyriarchy! ( kyriarchy is the social system that keeps all intersecting oppression in place.)
B) YOUR NAME!! Oh Sweet God!!
Thanks for that QQ.
Learn something new around here every damn day-why I keep coming back 🙂
Which rich, white males are holding you down?
I love the concept of kyriarchy. Very accurate.
Cam: the point is that it is not individuals doing the keeping down; it is the structures and the systems. Inequality is a series of axes or even sets: not a hierarchy but a Venn diagram. The fewer sets you belong to, the less the structures and the systems keep you down. Rich, white men belong to very few or no sets and therefore exist on very few or no inequality fault lines.
Sixer – You really are so wise.
THIS is why I read the comments on this site and keep coming back. I just learned something on a gossip site that I can apply right now to real life. I also really want to go write another thesis and have an amazing topic. *FOCUS* 🙂
YES! I want Sixer’s comment printed on a t-shirt..or some coasters..or something so that I will never forget it.
@Sixer:
Copied and pasted and printed and saved and shared…so smart.
Aww shucks. Thanks, guys. I’m really interested in inequality generally (and specific inequalities of course, but more how they fit together) and am lucky enough to know not one, but two, people currently researching PhDs in the area, so I get good schooling!
PS to Cam: I think it’s also worth pointing out that the rich, white men (or any other dominant group) aren’t shutting out everyone else *on purpose*. It’s the systems and structures and the way that they are culturally reproduced that does the shutting out. Nobody is saying that there exists a cabal of rich, white men specifically plotting to do down the women and the POC and the gay and trans people in a top secret darkened room somewhere.
Habitus is a useful concept to understand self-replication by a dominant group. The Wikipedia article isn’t very good, but it’s a helpful starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habitus_(sociology).
You forgot to thank her, Cam.
Actually Dangles, I responded with a few questions but they must’ve been too politically incorrect because the comment has not been put up. I guess we’ll all be assimilated.
Listen he doesn’t have to be their spokesperson but he’s a considerate ally. He acknowledges he doesn’t know everything but has come out and done the research on the topic. He’s been very thoughtful in interviews on the subject. We can’t bash cis allies in ANY movement if they are considerate and don’t diminish people in the cause. Because movements NEED allies
So agree.
I agree with this – and I also understand how frustrating it is when you’re part of the movement, and someone who’s part of the majority or whatever, swoops in and says the same things you’ve been saying the whole time, and suddenly people start listening.
It’s tough. Allies are great, and it’s amazing how eloquent and understanding some people can be without having to have gone through the same bad situations – but I know it’s so frustrating when so much of the public FINALLY pay attention to women’s issues when a famous man weighs in on them. The annoyance needs to be at the idiots who need their ideas spoonfed to them by a certain kind of person for them to give a crap – but I can completely understand where some of that gets shoved on the person trying to be an ally.
I agree. But I think he’s said that he’s not trying to be the “face” of the movement. Just like Matt McGorry constantly points out articles, twitter activists and others associated with BLM & feminism while also adding commentary. Yes its frustrating that people will listen to him over me (a WOC) but hey I appreciate another voice. He’s not out inserting himself in the forefront. Neither is Eddie and I respect that
“The annoyance needs to be at the idiots who need their ideas spoonfed to them by a certain kind of person for them to give a crap.”
Exactly! He handled this very well.
Totally agree. He’s been put in a bit of a tough situation. He’s being asked to speak and represent these issues while he is not actually a member of the demographic. At the same time we should listen when trans people voice frustration that outsiders can do the talking for them and get lots of attention and gold stars for being such amazing human beings while trans people themselves are (often) ignored unless they’re Caitlyn Jenner. Displacement is a real problem. ETA – that isn’t a problem with his specific comments in this anecdote but a more general problem with being an ally-spokesperson for any minority.
ITA. I loved what he said, actually.
This. People love to bring up the fact he’s rich, straight, white and male. He seems pretty compassionate and well aware of his privilege, to me. What do you want him to do? Chop off his legs so his life becomes a little harder? Talking about equality while excluding people of the conversation doesn’t make any sense.
And this is why I like him. When he comments on serious topics he comes across as considerate, intelligent and thoughtful. He has actually given thought to the topic – obviously in relation to Danish Girl, and he has taken the time and effort to educate himself. To me he comes across more convincing and more supportive and more knowledgeable than vacuous Caitlyn as far as the trans issues are concerned. And he is absolutely correct that the topics should not be divisive. At all.
I realize this comment is going to be controversial, so I apologize in advance. I have recently started binge-watching Transparent, and it’s really brought up some questions for me. I’d never really thought much about trans issues before: my opinion was: yes, there are people who feel they were born the wrong gender, they’ve suffered greatly for it, and they should be supported in their transitions into their true selves and into society. But watching Transparent, my feminist hackles were raised. Wait a second, I thought. Isn’t transvestitism just cultural appropriation? Being a woman is not lipstick and panty hose. Being a woman is getting paid less, and navigating through a patriarchy. How is trans different from a white person putting on blackface? Like that woman who worked for the NAACP who was pretending to be black. I don’t have the answer but I’d love to hear from someone who is familiar with trans issues.
Transvestism and transgender are NOT the same thing. At all. One is about clothes. The other is about the whole person.
For transgender, I had a hard time wrapping my head around what it means about being a woman. Here’s what I’ve got.
A trans woman presenting as male will not have the female experience – sexusl assault, sexism, misogyny, etc. Until she transitions. However, she will experience her own trauma about her inner conflict so that’s neither here nor there.
Once she transitions, she is a woman and takes on all the prejudices we experience, plus a whackload more for being trans.
As for appropriation, no it is not. Simply because you are born trans. It’s like being gay. You either are or aren’t.
For the NAACP woman, the problem is not with how she lived. The problem is she lied to get compensatory benefits reserved for true victims of racism. And she told a bunch of lies about her background for sympathy.
It would be like a man applying for a women’s scholarship without actually transitioning. Or someone faking a disability to get better work hours.
Lara K: A+… I wish I had this summary when I was teaching so I didn’t have twenty 19 year-olds staring at me like, “WTH is my professor talking about?”
I’d like to add – I think there’s a certain amount of over enthusiasm about clothes and things like that when someone transitions. I think it’s a side effect of finally having the ability to be who you are – and it can get a bit overzealous. I don’t think it’s ever a case of them trying to literally boil down being a woman into clothes and makeup and things like that – but when you’ve always had to hide who you are, and finally have a chance to show who you are in your appearance- it’s easy to really really go hard on the makeup and clothes because you never had the chance previously.
@Lara K
+infinity
You wrote that so perfectly…..Thank you.
Thank you Lara. As a Transman (FtM), it makes me so happy that there are people like you who understand and can explain it well to cisgendered people. You and Eddie Redmayne…
Caitlin Jenner’s not a very good example for someone who just transitioned, in that she might be the current public face but her transition is not the same as other Transwomen’s transitions. Not every Transwomen just cares about clothes and makeup but given how taboo it is for a man to wear a dress, it must feel like a relief to wear something that feels comfortable on them (both figuratively and literally). And for Transwomen who aren’t in the public eye and pass, women’s issues very much affect them.
I can’t speak for trans people, so this is just what I have been told by trans people. This is the simplistic view. The issue isn’t simply body parts per se, but matching the outside to match the inside. The real issues trans people go through isn’t really reflected as much by the media, including tv shows. Rolling Stone did an article about the abuse trans people suffer, see if you can find it. When trans people look in the mirror, pre-transformation, it doesn’t match how they truly feel on the inside. Societal norms dictate “boys are this way”. “girls are that way”. This creates an internal struggle for trans people. They don’t see themselves as those specific ways. People who transition go through extensive therapies of various forms to ensure that they truly are trans. It isn’t something you just do on a whim. As for race, race is an evolutionary process using a number of factors. It is widely believe the first humans came from Africa. Africa is mighty sunny. The humans evolved to deal with the sun by developing a large amount of melanin (up to SPF 500 for some, which is why “black don’t crack”). Race, in its scientific form is just humans evolving to their specific environments. Again, I can’t speak for trans people, this is just what I have been told in speaking with them.
Just to add to your post, reading from individual trans persons (and to a lesser extent transvestites) has been very enlightening for me and I genuinely empathize with their situation. Having said that there are definitely things a few that (strictly from a theoretical view) make me a little uneasy, dare I say as a feminist. I would love to read how other feminists grappled with some of the (imho) contradictions and made peace with the broader issue, so any links or suggested reading will be very welcome.
I personally think the contradiction comes in not seeing a trans person who has transformed into a woman as a true woman. People still see a man, not a woman. I have met a trans woman and was treated as a women, dealing with the same issues women who are born women are treated. It was when she told others she was a trans woman that people started to react differently. Trans people want to be seen as they are, not as they were. But both women and trans people have to deal with others trying to dictate how they (we) run their lives. That is what I see is the bigger issue. Others trying to dictate how I live my life and telling me what I can or can’t do with my own body.
Brilliant post Eggland.
I really appreciate your well-thought out responses. I love this site!
While I still think Caitlyn has done more good than bad, I must say I truly hate this tidal wave of women talking ignorantly about trans people, and she’s played a part in that. With all due respect, your post shows ignorance on the subject. A transvestite is not the same as a transgender. Men don’t go through the procedure because they’ll look better in a dress. We’re talking about men (and women too, but you’re talking about MtF trans) who have hated their bodies all their lives and truly feel like they have the soul of a woman. It’s a very hard process to describe and tbh, I think no cis person will ever understand it.
And if you say “being a woman is being paid less”, well, being a trans woman means you’ll get the door shut before you’re even interviewed. Trust me, no one makes that decission without greatly thinking about it.
As for cultural appropiation, I think masculinity and femininity are very relative. Some people dwell deeper into exploring that side of them generally associated with the other gender. I can spend hours talking about heavy metal and video games, which are not considered lady-like. I’m all for free gender expression. A guy proudly walking in heels feeling like a supermodel is a testament of feminism and gender equality, for me. Feminism is not about women vs men. It’s about gender equality. Both genders benefit from it.
I know I’m ignorant about the issue. That’s why I asked. I want to learn. Thanks for your insights!
@the original rachel
I really admire that attitude and I apologise if I sounded rude.
Fwiw there is a lot of evidence to suggest Rachel Dolezal, the woman who pretended to be black, was actively scamming and is flat out lying when she claims she did it because she identifies as black or feels black on the inside.
She ID’d as white until well into adulthood and once sued her college for racial discrimination – for discriminating against her as a white person. She has a history of claiming to be the victim of anti-white racism and of saying that black people have it easier because of positive discrimination. The first time she lied about being black was on an application form for a minority student bursary of scholarship. Essentially she started pretending to be black in the first place to get money.
She’s also lied about tons of other stuff that has nothing to do with race, for example lying that she had cancer.
I think he handled it as well as an actor-turned-ally could.
And ack. Y’know. The disappearing gender binary has arrived *before* sex equality has been achieved. There is bound to be some conflict on the edges of making progress on all fronts.
I have seen some arrant nonsense talked on both sides: pro-trans activists and feminist TERFs, or whateveritis they call themselves. The thing is, I think the vast majority of decent people want to see ever great proportions of people able to live as their true selves and also to see more women able to enjoy equal rights and life chances. And that’s a good thing. If there’s some anger and conflict generated on the coal face of making change, it’s not the end of the world.
Feminists don’t call themselves TERFs. That’s a slur that was made up when feminists dared to push back on some things.
like not accepting trans people? its not a slur, thats nonsense. the TE literally means “trans exclusionary” and thats a very fitting description.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Trans-exclusionary_radical_feminism
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/TERF
And it’s being used as a slur against any feminist who pushes back on anything, without even being exclusionary.
It originally served a purpose. Specifically for exclusionary feminists. Now it’s being used to just steamroll and silence any feminist or cisgendered woman who isn’t rolling over and dares to question or discuss anything, or, heaven forbid, ask that we’re still allowed to talk about our own experiences.
For me, the issue with the term TERF is how liberally it’s thrown around.
For example, it’s often used (appropriately) for those who use slurs against trans people, but it’s also unfortunately common to see TERF thrown at, say, lesbians who are not interested in having sexual relations with people who have penises (which includes most trans women – the majority do not undergo sex reassignment surgery) & therefore do not see them as viable romantic partners, even if those people identify as women.
I definitely agree that calling someone a TERF just because they don’t want to be romantic/sexual with someone who has a penis is an abuse of the term. It’s not wrong for people to have preferences and it actually seems a little entitled (not to mention it’s not sex-positive or feminist) to basically go around telling people: “Why don’t you ever hook up with people with X characteristic over here? You must not really believe in equality for all people! You’re a bad person!” Not wanting to have sex with someone doesn’t mean excluding them from a political movement, disrespecting them, treating them as less than, or contributing to their oppression, which is what real TERFs actually do.
Fair enough, Claire – won’t use it again. Like I say, I’ve seen stuff and nonsense talked on both sides. But the loudest voices are often the most extreme. I maintain that most right-thinking people support both women’s and trans rights, which is as it should be.
What is a TERF?
ETA: nevermind. Google provided an explanation.
I’m with Claire on this one.
LAK: nevertheless, there is a group within feminism that does not accept trans women as women. On this point, I fundamentally disagree with them. However, I understand some of the concerns that some within the group have raised. After all, biology is at the root of many of the oppressions women face. We can’t erase that. Like I say, there are bound to be conflicts at a disappearing gender binary in an environment where sex equality has not yet been achieved.
please read the two links i provided under claires post, TERFs are scum.
Well, there are factions of transactivists and feminists having issues with each other and some of the pushback, IMO, is very valid. Take for example the situation that happened at Scripps College.
Counting the days until he goes on some kind of sabbatical… BUT I will give credit where credit is due: he does handle these queries gracefully and tacitly. He could easily streak into a blathering quagmire and thankfully he hasn’t said anything (yet) as unequivocally reductive as describing that he felt a bit of what women go through when he walked on set as Lili. As a teaching fellow, I taught a unit of Intro to Women’s Studies on transgender issues and although well-versed in my own field within gender studies, I was petrified of botching it, so props to him.
All this said, I wish he’d drop the “I find something positive in everyone” act and formulate a strong(er) opinion about something, anything (drugs, kittens, tap dancing, ANYTHING), that isn’t the consistency of warm vanilla pudding.
Agree. Eddie is very skilled at navigating complex social issues.
But I feel the same as you, Eddie manages to talk quite a bit but I still have no idea what Eddie really thinks about anything, he never takes a stand. I find impossible to relate to him, he is like a shape-shifter.
*Whispers*I feel the same way about certain other actor popular on here, who I will simply refer to as TH.
It might be a good thing for an actor, people usually don’t appreciate political statements from actors. But at this point – is there anything about him that is known? What are his hobbies? What does he like to do when he is not working? Who are his friends? Does he like sushi? Anything. He is a complete blank to me. The only thing I know about him is that he likes clothes.
Absolutely agree! I’m not enamoured of any actors pontificating (although I do like Matt Damon’s rant on how teachers are under-appreciated and he’s a smart cookie) but Eddie comes across as well-educated but utterly shallow. He gushes a lot which I find endearing from people on a rare occasion (weddings, babies, etc.) but with him, the faucet is constantly turned ON. His mystique is a combination of his upbringing (keep everything polite and uncontroversial) and the fashion thing is no doubt partly us projecting from his modeling, but you’re right, he does fancy a nice, kitschy plaid suit… a lot.
I don’t know if it is shallow but, not wordly. Like he hasn’t experienced life. Who knows. I’m 38 with a 4 year old and tend to get to the point regardless of who I piss off. I worked my ass off to get to that point in life though. Not saying he didn’t work/doesn’t work hard but something is missing. Maybe some of this will go away when he has a kid.
MoochieMom: I love candor! Good for you, life is too short for dithering. I like that better “not worldly,” that’s perfect. I’m 34, so he’s smack in my peer group, but he seems about 10 years behind despite our similar, fancypants educations. You’re right that something is missing (I feel like he’s really trying to build normalcy and cobbling it together in a way that I’ve seen other 30-somethings do socially and it makes me flinch a little) and having a child may temper it a bit, time will tell.
Some bad news for you, Edie… there’s going to be no Redmayne sabbatical any time in the foreseeable future. It’ll be Oscar campaigning through to the end of Feb, then a new baby sometime in the Spring, apparently, and then, just when we’re hoping he’s taking a break, the promotion for Fantastic Beasts will gear up (and the Harry Potter machine is relentless.) Then it’ll be Beasts #2 and #3, coming in 2018 and 2020 respectively. We might get a break in 2021, but odds are he’ll have another Oscar bait movie lined up by then, and the whole cycle will start again.
NO. STOP. God, a baby AND there are two more Beasts movies? (I just wrote “beast movies” and then realized I was thinking about the about giant man-eating squid… in which case I would absolutely attend opening night.) So we’ll have him gushing about the wonder of being a father AND Harry Potter? I think I’ve just lost the will to live.
Eddie Redmayne just did the impossible. He’s going to unite the most radical trans-activists and the TERFs…. in opposition to him. Jokes aside, having dealt with issues of race and sexuality through much of my college career, including questions such as “why is there a group specific for queer people of color?” “why aren’t black people more focused on LGBT issues?”, etc, there are always people at the fringe of any group that is going to push back when it looks like one group is pushing in on their territory.
“…we can fight for different things at the same time…”
Okay. Do we?
Just playing devil’s advocate.
He seems like a thoughtful, well meaning person. Germaine Greer is entitled to her opinion, and she made it clear that her statement was only that. I can’t stand this era of vilifying/shunning/mocking anyone who isn’t doctrinaire. It’s like being governed by rage-y 15 year olds. I can passionately advocate for someone else’s human rights without necessarily agreeing with every damn thing they say.
That’s the major problem with so much discourse these days. If you dare to disagree with the orthodoxy du jour, whatever that might be, you are mocked and vilified.
I’m sorry but I deeply resent a man telling women how to do feminism properly.
How is he doing that though? He made it very clear that he respects Greer. He didn’t mansplain, he didn’t patronize or condescend, he simply stated that he disagreed with her stance on transgendered people within the context of feminism.
Sigh.
Yeah I’m kinda blown away by his ability to tread carefully and qualify a statement here. He tiptoed his way through like four major issues. No wonder he owns award season year after year.
I would’ve given him an “A.” He’s not (for once) giving the party line but a really thoughtful, carefully constructed answer that includes a critique. I respect him for that.
He did well, always lovely being taught by men how to be better feminists.
Greer does not know Caitlyn deeply enough to fully know her reasons to transition so even though Cait seems pretty superficial as a person, her identity is her business.
What Greer does know is how lately some transactivists who are in feminist collectives have banished talks on any issues related to female genitalia, meaning biologically born women are being erased from feminism. Gender identity is important but so are the long time feminist issues, such as abortion, child birth, sexual pleasure, ovarian cancer, breastfeeding etc. All must be equally relevant and discussed but it hasn’t been the case that is why most radical feminists used to be liberal, meaning they used to be part of collectives that had transwomen but felt ashamed and oppressed to discuss their issues as biologically born women.
Disagreeing on Gender Theory doesn’t make one transphobic.
Being unable, afraid, ashamed to talk about biologically inherent issues is nothing new since misogyny is nothing new but now this gag order has been happening within several liberal feminist groups.
Radical feminists are simply reclaiming back their safe spaces to continue to talk about their 2000 year old issues without feeling shut down or punished (again and still) for their biology.
It is important to emphasise that many transwomen within some groups gladly embrace all issues but 2015 was really the year when most feminists within liberal feminist groups basically had to apologize for having a vagina – even though being born with one is the very thing that makes us socialized as an inferior class in society.
I feel I’ll get flamed but I agree with her. While I support a trans persons right to transition and do what they want, I agree with Greer. I think a trans woman will understand what it’s like being a woman once she’s objectified, told to “smile” at the store, sexually harassed or assaulted, paid less etc. But all experiences until then have been from a male perspective. And how can they tell anyone how to feminism if that’s the case?
Caitlynn Jenner isn’t the best example, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of trans women do face forms of sexism/harassment/assault/objectification that cis women have experienced, on top of the struggles they face for being trans.
Also, there are cis women who have not personally experienced assault, harassment, or objectification, but rarely get told they don’t know what it’s like to be a real woman just because they haven’t personally experienced those things. There have even been cis women who have said that they don’t feel that they’ve personally experienced real sexism in their own lives or who even feel that they don’t need feminism because all the men in their lives have treated them well. I wouldn’t say they aren’t real women because of that, they’re just privileged or lucky women.
I actually think casting a transwoman in the Danish Girl role would have been transphobic and involve serious ethical issues. I don’t believe the SJWs (who are mostly not trans) knew anything about the movie or what the role entailed.
Possibly a transman (ie a biological woman who transitioned to male) could have played the role, though there would be issues there. Certainly a transwoman could have played the wife or the ballet dancer or one of the smaller female roles. But Eddie’s role? Clearly had to be played by someone biologically male who had not in real life undergone any form of gender transitioning.