As we discussed yesterday, Leslie Jones went public (via Twitter) with her fashion drama. The premiere for Ghostbusters is coming up and Leslie wants to look fabulous for her first big film premiere. She’s seen how ruling the red carpet can give a boost to an actress’s career, plus I think Leslie just likes clothes. Yesterday, I made a big deal about sizeism in the industry, and while it’s true that Leslie is not a sample size (zero or two), she is by no means overweight. She’s a tall, leggy woman who is probably (at most) a size 10, which is smaller than the average American woman. So why won’t designers dress her? Why won’t anyone offer to make Leslie something cute for the premiere? Well, according to Hollywood stylists, it’s Leslie’s fault. It’s her fault for NOT being a size 2. It’s her fault for being tall. And while this goes unsaid, it’s likely her fault for not looking like a “model” cough cough. Via Pret-A-Reporter:
Stylists I talked to estimated that the 6-foot stunner is probably not a sample size, meaning a runway model size 4, but rather a size 8 or 10, and that could be part of her frustration. But not because of any size bias.
“It’s just pure economics,” says The Hollywood Reporter power stylist Jeanne Yang. “People have this belief that showrooms and designers have racks and racks of clothing in all sizes. They don’t. When you’re a designer, sitting with your accountant, you have to think about how much it costs to create a sample. It may take hours to do a muslin, and thousands of dollars to create one specific piece. You justify it because you use it for so many things. One dress has to serve for the runway show, for sales, and to get publicity. If you have a sample that has to fit a model, you don’t have the option of creating things for premieres. No one ever does a variety of sizes. No one has those resources, even the biggest designers don’t.
“For something as big as the Oscars or when you are given enough time, designers may lay out the expense of creating something,” she continues. “But then, a lot of designers who do go through the trouble to create things, and spend the money and time, sometimes they take a gamble then the client says they don’t like it. Then you’ve spent $5,000 to $10,000 for a dress that’s not worn. It can be the death of a line.”
Some celebrities who don’t conform to fashion’s narrow body ideals have to buy — not borrow. Size 6 Bryce Dallas Howard bought the Jenny Packham dress she wore to the 2015 Golden Globes off-the-rack.
“I’ve had clients who are not sample sizes, for example Nia Vardalos. Designers are more than happy to lend to her. Unfortunately, she’s not a sample size. So the production company gave me a budget to buy her clothes,” says stylist Jessica Paster, who also works with Emily Blunt, Olivia Munn and Miranda Kerr. “Christian Siriano saved the day by pulling non-sample sizes, and he himself, the weekend of the premiere for My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2, did the final fitting with Nia.
“This is nobody’s fault except Leslie’s,” says Paster. “She should have known four to five months ago the date of premiere, and said, ‘I’m not a sample size, I need to go to designers early or buy myself a dress.’ Don’t be blaming designers and saying they don’t like you.”
It looks like Siriano is saving the day again. He’s confirmed to dress Jones for the film’s premiere during Outfest.
“I love Leslie and I’m a huge fan of her work,” Siriano said by email. “I can’t wait to create something special for her to wear. Hopefully I will see her in my studio this week to make something new and exciting for her to wear. I support all women no matter age or size!”
I like how the stylists are like “THIS ISN’T SIZE BIAS” then they go on to explain how designers are biased against anyone over a size 2. Do these stylists realize that words have meaning? That they are actually describing why designers don’t want to work with certain women because of their size? And why is anyone assuming that Leslie is speaking up now because she only recently had a problem? Dollars to donuts, she’s been dealing with sizeism for years, and designers have refused to dress her for all of her career. The difference is that now she’s starring in one of the hottest movies of the summer and she thought she deserved some special treatment this time around. And designers were like, “ugh, no, and it’s your own fault for being so tall and normal-sized, how many times do we have to say no to you?”
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet, WENN.
Fashion designers and stylists can be the biggest snobs ever. Ewwww
Especially Lagerfeld. He has been known to criticize women about their size-including Adele. It’s sick.
The same Karl Lagerfeld who for a big chunk of his life was very fat?? Bloody cheek!
@helonearth I agree. What nerve and how rude! It’s a shame that his ego allows him to pass such ridiculous judgments on women-especially if they are well-loved and very talented.
Well, he starved himself on the cabbage diet, so should everyone else! (He thinks)
That’s why I got a laugh out of that one chic on the Olivia Munn post who was all, “Dress for men because they’re less judgey than women.” Like, really girl? What planet are you living in?
I remember when Lagerfeld swore he’d never collaborate with H&M again, because they made his clothes in UK sizes 12 and 14. He’s a poisonous mummified little toad. Free poor Choupette!
Back to the ‘First World Problem’ at hand. Is this woman poor? Can she not afford to buy herself a nice dress for her film premiere? Seriously, what on earth are we talking about here?! Yes, the fashion world is evil and sizist, that’s why shops like Zara cut their clothes small.They don’t want to see their clothes on people of a certain size. And that’s why I don’t spend my money there. Are we really supposed to feel sorry for someone who feels entitled to free designer dresses?
@Jane: He should not be like that, but Adele and others of her girth should either look for a dress in her size at stores that cater to those of size, work with somebody to have one made for them, or (and I know this sounds heretical nowadays) lose the weight. Or, they can do what the dress designer for the recent Mad Max movie did and just wear what they felt like throwing on for a night like a premiere.
I don’t know.. this line:
“a lot of designers who do go through the trouble to create things, and spend the money and time, sometimes they take a gamble then the client says they don’t like it. Then you’ve spent $5,000 to $10,000 for a dress that’s not worn. It can be the death of a line”
As an art director, it rang very true for me… and I just deal with graphics for print and web! But creativity for commerce and designing for clients is a tricky thing, and though working on spec(for free or for ‘publicity/credit”) is frowned upon bc it devalues the industry, brings down wage value, creates unrealistic client expectation and there is no confirmed payoff for you. And you honestly never know where the client’s mind can be. Some can be very…. mercurial
lastly, I’m not saying that there isn’t a larger issue over all about sizism, racism or other isms in fashion and Hollywood— there surely are, but these words hit a nerve of familiarity and truth with me – how the designer’s experience is hidden and unknown and people think we’re just behind the scenes being catty and playing in sandboxes – it makes me think that there is a lot more than meets the eye about designers than the public realized. They can be snobs, true, but I also know there is a real aspect of running a business too. That Jones (who I do really really like) might have some lessons to learn in giving a house a heads up is a fair request from where I stand . We are not magicians who wave wands, and *poof*- product appears. Time for planning and time for execution are real things.
My hope for Leslie? To partner with a designer that really gets her– there are some performer/designer pairings that are image boosting and cementing. I think about the collaborations of Karen O with Chrstian Joy to Audrey Hepburn with Hubert Givenchy. When you get someone who “gets” you, it is a marvelous thing indeed.
100% this. As a creative person who works in the arts, Leslie should sympathize with this. Comedy is not instant and magic either. Comedy takes hard work and time, so why shouldn’t fashion?
Annaloo, very well put. I’m sure some of the designers maybe didn’t want to work with her for various reasons. And maybe some of those reasons weren’t so nice. But it’s getting exhausting how everything is about an “ism” these days. I’m having a hard time believing that the fashion industry just woke up and decided all together to not help dress her. Not every single thing that happens is about discrimination.
Sorry l have to disagree big time. I’m a designer/creative director too. We’ve gotten critique since we started. Not new – art is a gamble.
Secondly, these designers excuses are dated and old and untrue.
Charlize Theron is 6′ – Nicole Kidman 5″11 – GoT actress much taller than Leslie. This isn’t a new issue is fashion – also you don’t ask her to go out 4Mos in advance because she’s tall. Crock of shit.
This is ego. Plain and simple. You only want to work in size 2 fine. Melissa McCarthy…tons of non size 2 actresses fill hollywood. This excuse is tired, crock of shit and wrapped in ignorance.
Yeah the stylist was a little tone-deaf or snarky but a lot of what they said rang true to me. I’m a designer, and we were taught at school to do samples in an (I think it’s European?) size 8/32, basically, and I’ve never made a red-carpet gown or a cocktail dress (I’m more into casual, smart, simple stuff), but I’ve seen how much that cost, in time and resources. And sometimes it takes more than two muslins, it can take up to four or more. We really don’t know for how long the designers denied Leslie’s request, but I thought she sounded like she made a few calls recently – again, just an impression – and they were like sorry can’t help you.
And, does that mean it’s because sizeism, racism, …ism? Couldn’t it be because designers are tired of making a gown happen in 72h or a week for a non sample sized celeb, and have them looking bulky and weird in the wrong places? And they crapped on by bloggers and all over the media like “the actress wore this odd-fitting/looking/ugly dress by so and so…”?
The other girls in the business – Queen Latifah, or whoever, know to call the months ahead of time.
Making a dress costs money. Being a fashion designer costs a LOT of money. It’s a gamble, even for the big brands And all of this to borrow a dress to a premiere… I don’t know if I’d do it, to be completely honest. I’m quite the perfectionist and I’d only do something for a red carpet premiere January 2017 if you told me now, July.
Also – I didn’t like that she threatened to put them on blast on twitter. It’s not a good look. I’m happy that Christian is making her dress, and she’ll look fabulous, but is there need to burn bridges?
@dana-
We have to agree to disagree. In conflicts of what is placed and expected of creative professionals, the stylists and designers side are the ones I would listen to in this case. I like Jones a lot, but I also don’t assume to know the workflow for houses or studios of the designers that denied her. The opening of Ghostbusters in mid July is also not during Awards season, or huge fashion events like the Met ball– if there aren’t dresses that are ready to go at that calendar point of the season without prearrangements, I’d get it. Also, as great as Jones is, before we pull the ism cards, she is not JLo, or Rihanna, or Nicole Kidman status.. not yet! She just may not have that level of status or pull professionally that would pay off in sales, exposure, fan following, etc.. to make this level of a demand. If I were leading a studio, I would consider this heavily in my decision before creating something exclusively for someone– especially if it’s only for the exchange of exposure. What if Olivia Munn called this level of attention for a dress for the premiere of X-men which subsequently flopped? To do so only weakens and lessens your position in business to accommodate someone without the track record or guaranteed profile rise, I would think. Magic wand waving is a risky and unguaranteed effort, indeed.
And – this is more generally directed — wherever I landed on that decision, I have never liked clients assuming that they know the level of difficulty of what I am doing for them. Not all designers are snobs (but yes, some are.. not all tho!). EG: Maybe I turned that one revision around for you in an hour, but what you didn’t see was that it was a week long project to set it up that’s 45 layers and now you think you want to change the entire layout to look like something your 12 year old showed you on Pinterest last night with us going to print at week’s end? OMG….
I love Leslie, but the nail was hit on the head when you mentioned ego… I do, respectfully, think there is ego coming from all sides here, and a misunderstanding. I hope she finds a great partnership with a designer that “gets” her, though bc she is a fierce and funny force.. and I think she lives for the attention. It would be a glorious marriage to see.
@mimz — So true. Even in magazine production, the planning for the Nov & Dec issues are happening now. Animation studios are producing their 2018 releases now. There is a flow, teams to coordinate, items to source, accounts to pay. I wonder how long Leslie or her stylist had been looking and asking too. If it was only in the last couple of months for example, that could only work if you know CAD and had your own 3-d printer and/or Cinderella mice in your closet.
That said, I still love Leslie. I hope this sorts itself and that she looks amazing.
@mimz and @annaloo I tend to agree with you guys in that the stylist did a good job explaining as to why it isn’t so easy or cost-effective to create a gown for a non-sample sized celeb. I think most of us forget or don’t know how much goes into creating a gown, the time, labor and cost, and how important it is to make sure it fits correctly on the wearer. But the stylist did come off a little snarky at the end when she said “it was nobody’s fault except Leslie’s.”
@Carol — I agree, the snark was unnecessary from the stylist, but I think Leslie also threw a few shaded comments too.. I think this all amounted to a heap of misunderstandings and bitchiness from all sides! 😛
I hear ya on the business end. I work at a sign company and people expect miracles in less than a day. These things don’t miraculously make themselves and the graphic designer has a ton of work to do. Time is money and no one wants to pay for a proof!
@annaloo,
but what you’re saying about designers is true about most jobs. You’ve no idea what goes into teaching, policing, performing, serving customers, picking up trash until you’ve done the job or had someone do it who’s close to you and shares day-to-day struggles.
Plus, designer world is actually so glamorous that people would gladly get educated. Speak up, create blogs, etc. if you think people aren’t understanding your work and not treating you well. I, for one, would love to read such a blog! The behind-the-scenes of getting a dress ready for a movie star? I bet that’d get a lot more clicks than a behind-the-scenes of a K teacher.
@annaloo; Or, the next time she’s going to something like this, Ms. Jones ARRANGES months in advance with a designer for a dress that will fit her, and does not assume that she can just buy one off of the rack.
This is terrible. Jones is the only reason my husband and I watch SNL. She’s so funny and talented, even my husband loves her and he usually gives a pass on female comedians as he claims they aren’t funny. I can’t wait for Ghost Busters to come out. We need MORE Leslie!!!
I’ve seen tons of models who are very tall and thin, so I doubt they’re a size 2. If you’re 5’10 or more you can’t wear a 2.
This is just size-ism, sex-ism, race-ism, and class-ism.
joan: While there is *tons* of racism in Hollywood, layers of it, I genuinely don’t see the “racism” here. I guess, to know if racism actually is a factor, we’d need to know the experiences of larger-sized white women w designers, as well. I tend to think they would have complaints very similar to Leslie’s, and that racism, for a change, played no part here.
What snobs, Kim K has the ass of a hippo n yet they make her dresses . She posts them all the time,side by side runway to her n its not the same size. Leslie is a waste of their time cause she doesn’t get exposure, well here’s to her making a splash in her career n refusing their asses.
Kim K most likely arranges ahead of time for the dresses she wants, or she goes to a store with dresses that can fit her-she doesn’t do this to a designer, and act like this when they can’t fulfill her requests in a short timespan. Ms. Jones doing this only shows she’s not very smart, or doesn’t have any class at all.
I want to love this film (and am going to buy an advance ticket for the opening day here in Toronto) but this incident, the typical reactions to it orchestrated by both Jezebel and The Mary Sue on her behalf with all of the outrage, and the instant drubbing of anybody who doesn’t like the film as sexist and mysyongist is making it hard for me to do so.
Dusty – She did correct the stylist on the point of time frame and clarified that this has been an obstacle she’s been running into for months.
I hope Christian Siriano makes her a beautiful gown and she feels wonderful in it.
I’ve been a fan since PR and he regularly dresses women of all sizes. He even has a line with Lane Bryant that isn’t paper bags for plus size. So he will kill it.
Alternate headline for this story: Designers prove that Leslie was right…also designers can be bitchy
And the great thing about Christian is he has evolved, unlike so many others. Back on PR he initially balked at dressing anyone who was larger than a mannequin, too.
Yep which is why I was pleasantly surprised when people of all colors and sizes were showing up in his gowns on the red carpet. Also he was 21 on PR. He’s certainly grown up as well
I think working with Christina Hendricks opened his eyes to the challenges of the “non-conformist” Hollywood body types. He seemed to get better about having dresses for women over a size 2 after he started dressing Hendricks regularly. Also, if you look at his clothes on the runway, you can often see in the construction where it would be really easy to split a couple seams, insert extra fabric, and boom, the dress will fit someone larger than a model. It’s how he constructs his clothes, lots of side-seams and hidden tucks that look like they can be let out with little fuss. It’s like he’s thinking ahead to having the inevitable call from a curvy actress. Carolina Herrera does the same thing on most of her clothes.
Christian Siriano is great!
I was really rooting for Melissa McCarthy’s team to step up and design something.
I love Christian Siriano. Just wanted to chime in…
While I do see the bias…I understand, that it is part economics. However, that blew my mind that Bryce Dallas Howard is a size six and too big for designers….ouch!
Yeah Bryce Dallas Howard!
Who starred in one of the biggest movies last year. The daughter of Ron Howard! Close family friend of Spielberg!.
The porcelain skinned red haired Howard was also told by certain designers to go hang cause she was not their size aesthetic.
If it can happen to her of all people, then no one is safe.
Yes. And what’s even more messed up, is that on the red carpet, when asked who’s she’s wearing, Bryce had to say “Jenny Packham—but I bought it myself.” Because I guess you don’t want to suggest the designer actually styled you, when they didn’t. So, to add insult to injury, you need to publicly declare you can’t fit into sample sizes. I remember something similar happened to Hayden Panettiere. She didn’t clarify that she bought her dress, she just said “I’m wearing Tom Ford.” He then actually issued a statement to clarify that he did not dress her.
Ugh, that’s gross. “Yeah you’re wearing me but don’t claim I had anything to do with it”
They Hayden Panettiere thing was a little different (she’s tiny, I doubt she has this size problem). Tom Ford only ever dresses one, *maybe* two people for a red carpet. He selects who will wear his gown himself, and designs a dress especially for that person. It’s extremely exclusive, and it’s a big part of his brand representation. Celebrities walking a red carpet in a designer gown are walking commercials. It was bitchy of Tom Ford to call out HP like he did, but at the same time, her wearing an “unauthorized” gown goes against his PR strategy for these events. He has a right to protect his business. Although I seem to remember his comment was something like, “I didn’t dress her but she looked beautiful.”
Actually, Tom Ford sent Hayden flowers and was very nice about the entire thing. The press is the one who went wild with it and tried to claim Hayden was fronting like Tom dressed her because Tom as a general rule only styles one person per event.
And of course I don’t know Tom Ford but he always seems to be very lovely and polite.
This is so much more about size. We live in a culture that sees no value in many people. We embrace a Vanessa Williams but not a Sereena Williams. This conversation is about size, shape, color, race, hair texture, hair length, weight, height and so much more.
crtb – I hate to even think it – but you are 100% spot on. Racism is everywhere, even undercover like this is. I just can’t….
So true, what we love about Leslie designers look at as nothing but a collection of problems they don’t want to deal with.
Exactly, CRTB. People can deny it all they want but you’re right.
Well, now that she has spoken up for herself, at least they get to label (and discard her) as an “angry black woman”, right? I sometimes just can’t.
That’s what I’m thinking as well. The fashion industry has a long history of racism.
Am I nuts or did a sample size used to be a size 6? It the size 4 a function of size inflation, or is everyone expected to stay even thinner? I can’t even begin to address how f-cked up it is that people are expected alter their bodies to clothes that are created FOR THEM TO WEAR. This industry is insane.
Are we reading the same thing here? I’m not seeing an offensive bias. I’m seeing an economic fashion reality. To be fair, most stars are not Leslie’s size. There’s nothing wrong with her size- she’s healthy and beautiful!- but to suggest all lines should create samples to accommodate a tiny percentage of Hollywood is a bit much. Her stylist should have been pulling things off the rack like Bryce Dallas Howard’s stylist. Or she should work with whoever dresses Melissa Mcarthy. It’s not that they don’t want to lend to her and its not that they don’t carry her size, it’s that they don’t carry that size in samples.
That said, we NEED bigger Hollywood stars. That’s where the change should start, not in fashion (IMO). That way, fashion will have to follow suit.
That’s what I thought too.
That was my interpretation.
Also, actresses want to wear clothing that was on a catwalk 5mins ago. Those catwalk samples are cut and draped on a super skinny model’s body. It’s a truth universally acknowledged that catwalk models are skinnier than editorial models. That has always been the case even in the good old days. Therefore in order to wear samples straight off a catwalk, one must be sample size, like the super skinny models.
If actresses let go of this idea and sourced their clothing differently, this wouldn’t be the issue these women have created.
This goes for the notion that to look fabulous, one must only wear the top tier designers when there are many more less expensive options available.
Sharon stone in a gap t-shirt to the Oscars is still my favourite look of all time.
Yes! But Stone dressed herself which now nobody does except Blake Lively.
I miss the red carpet of the 90s before it was taken over by stylists and designers. Sure some stars fucked up royally but that was part of the fun. Now the red carpet most of the time looks like an ad for Nadine ball gowns.
Yep, this is how I interpreted it as well and while it’s frustrating, I understand their point.
I’m on the opposite spectrum. I live in Jamaica, and stores tend not to have my size (0/2 now, give or take, 00 when I was younger). It was really frustrating when I was younger and still really frustrating when it comes to jeans. But, I’ve found myself an awesome tailor who makes a lot of my clothes (mostly pants) and I’m also learning how to sew.
So while Hollywood really needs to change, sometimes you have to work with the hand you’re dealt at the moment and find a work-around.
I agree.
These actresses to stop being beholden to stylists who will dress them from a narrow pool of established designers all presenting the same dresses to clients.
Stone is a good example of someone who styled herself and looked fabulous. She mixed high street and couture to amazing results.
That gap t-shirt wasn’t a one off. At a different Oscar, she wore her hubby’s non designer shirt with a valentino skirt to great effect.
Winona wore exclusively vintage to all awards shows which she may or may not have sourced herself. And she had a very unique look.
Demi Moore wears designer exclusively, but she’s not wedded to a stylist and looks amazing as a result.
People don’t realise that most of the stylists have contracts with design houses and will only push the clothes of those houses whether or not they are the best look or style for the actresses they are dressing. And it’s the stylists pushing exclusivity and what’s more exclusive than 5mins off the catwalk?
That’s why the red Carpet has become homogenous in style, colour.
Very few actresses have the confidence to wear something that suits them best even where they have contracts eg JLaw and Alicia Vikander seem to wear what their stylists/contracts hand them with no sense that they had any input in the decision. The clothes don’t suit them, yet their labels have designs that would suit them. DIOR and LV didn’t start making terrible clothes yet these two ladies always pick the worst clothes in the range.
PrincessMe: i bet you look fabulous with your tailored clothing. The solution isn’t always designer. And i bet you are much happier with what your tailor whips out. Much more room for unique, customised looks.
Thanks LAK, I really do :P.
If I see something I like, I take a picture to him and he makes it for me and the fit is perfect (I hate alterations, they never feel “right”). And now, I’m slowly making my own clothes and rocking them too. My options have really opened up.
@LAK: Demi Moore has worked with a stylist for a long time – Rachel Zoe for years, and then I think she jumped ship to Brad Goreski when Zoe got too expensive.
This. From what I see, either her demands were ridiculous and no one wanted to deal with that or couldn’t in a short time frame, or her stylist is inept. Leaning towards her stylist being inept.
I thought the same. I is a money issue Sadly. Melissa M has had the same problem. And this is not new.
On another note.. looking at the picture of the 4 women together.. Leslie looks the best styled..
No, that’s what I read, too. The dresses they usually lend are already made, and obviously they are going to be made to fit models. She just sounds really entitled.
If all your co-stars are getting offers for free clothes, why shouldn’t she? Just because she’s tall or not a sample size ain’t gonna cut it.
Yeah honestly – I’m not getting the shade that some people are reading. She could go get a beautiful piece off the racks and get it altered – but I mean – it’s not like this is a surprise event. It takes a long time to make a movie and to get to the point where it’s ready for a premier. I really have to wonder how long she waited to start looking.
There’s nothing wrong with her body – but she just ISN’T model sized. Simple as that. And if you’re expecting to have some sort of extra special piece, you need to give a huge heads up to a designer. A lot of people are on her side on this – and I’m not AGAINST her, but I don’t think it’s JUST a case of her size or her race being the issue. Siriano is known to pump out some amazing pieces for women who don’t fit the tiny model mode – but clearly she had never approached him. I think there was a bit of snobbery on her side of things as well – I think she wanted a BIG name to dress her, and didn’t bother expanding her search. I mean – he was excited at the chance to dress her! It’s clearly not a case of all designers dissing her.
I mean – look at people buying a wedding dress. Most people are buying something off the rack and getting it altered. That takes WEEKS to get done in most cases. And if you need a lot of alterations, it can take longer. You can’t just show up and expect to find the perfect dress and it just fit like a glove.
I used to work in bridal. If you have time you order straight from the manufacturer and then get it altered. The only time we had brides buy off the rack is if the wedding was less than 3 months away and the manufacturer didn’t have the size that was needed in stock which could be FedEx’d right away. I’ve seen major alterations(shortening sleeves, shoulders, moving a waistline, hem bustles blah blah) done in under 72 hours if necessary. I worked at one of the largest bridal stores in Toronto and saw some crazy scenarios where I thought OMG they can’t do it, but they did-every time and it was flawless. It doesn’t take weeks and it can be done.
@ERINN that’s what I got too.
Exactly. Very, very few celebrities have dresses custom made for them by top tier designers. Outside of the Oscars, the Globes and Cannes there’s literally just a handful who get custom gowns for premieres and the like. Those dresses cost a fortune, even the very, very basic ones are $10,000-$20,000. You need to be critically acclaimed, hugely famous and appeal to the demographic that buys couture to get one. If you aren’t that, you need to forget the top tier designers and most likely the second tier designers. A lot of TV stars and B-list celebs forge relationships with lesser known designers and get dresses made that way. Otherwise they buy off the rack and have things tailored.
Samples are made primarily to go out to magazines. People like Kate Bosworth and Jessica Alba and so on either get them after they’ve already been used multiple times, or they get the samples that weren’t called in by anyone. For the fashion houses it’s just a bonus, it’s not the point of the samples. If those sort of actresses turned professional fashion show attendee’s wanted actual custom couture, there’s not a chance in hell they’d get it from a major designer.
Nope, I agree with you.
I’m glad this discussion is happening because it also finally explains why the more famous an actress becomes the more weight she losses a big part is to fit into these “sample size” dresses for big studio premieres.
How sad is it that for cost savings, these women have to starve themselves to get a dress from a designer? Hollywood actresses used to be a healthier weight before getting enmeshed with the fashion industry. Emma Stone comes to mind.
That’s what I see too. However, if the defense is that they need more advanced notice, Leslie said her people tried to get on the designers’ radar well in advance of this event. So, I think it has more to do with the cost of the dresses. If it costs thousands of dollars to make one dress, a tiny dress at that, then I suspect the designers are adverse to having to use more material for a larger size dress. It’s still an economic issue, but they need to just say it like it is and not pussy foot around the real issue – It’s too expensive for the designers and a possible loss for them to invest that much money in material and design to make a “special” (#cough#largerdress#cough#). Also factor in that a dress on a woman not built like a model will not lay or flow the way the designer wants it to as it would on a stick figure. I wish people would just be honest. It insults my intelligence that they don’t think we know what’s really up.
It’s an investment up front in good will. There are hoards of women out there who would like to dress better than they are now, but the clothes are just not out there for their size . As a 50+ woman looking at at clothes that are too young or too old for me, I would pay big $$$ for some well-designed clothes. From designers who aren’t talking down to me. This is also sexist, I don’t think men would put up with this S%$% from designers. Tailoring makes a difference at all sizes. If designers would make a wider variety of sizes, they might just see brand loyalty from women who hadn’t previously had access to nicer clothes – and make serious $$$.
Yupp i don’t think they’re blaming her for being a different body type (she looks fantastic). They’re just explaining that companies would go bankrupt if they tried to make a dress for every size because most would never be used.
They’re only blaming her because they believe she didn’t give companies enough notice about wanting them to dress her. If she did, then most would accommodate that. It just takes more time to custom make something
But she did give advance warning. This is her first major role. You think she wasn’t planning for the premiere MONTHS in advance? They probably didn’t want to dress her because she isn’t a big enough name (happens a lot for out of the blue actresses during award season) OR because they took one look at her and decided they didn’t want her in their dresses.
IMO, the stylist above seems to be blaming women for not being sample size. Like she’s saying that if you want to wear one of those dresses, you’d better be a size -0. Or else they can’t help you.
Yeah I’m with you. Does it suck that this is the reality? Yes of course it does. But it IS the reality currently. You have play the game you’re in, and unfortunately the fashion and Hollywood game is geared towards tiny people. If you are not a model size, you have to get in touch with designers earlier if you want something made. Sounds like her stylist is not very good if she didn’t know this ahead of time
Melissa McCarthy dresses Melissa McCarthy. She has complained about designers not wanting to work with her because of her size, too, and Christian Siriano actually came out and said he had offered to dress her and she was so difficult and critical he gave up. She went to school for fashion design, so she has her own notions of how she likes to dress. Though based on the stuff I’ve seen her design, she has terrible taste.
If the “sample” sizes don’t fit most women, then they need to be changed. Bryce Dallas Howard should not be running into issues finding clothes as a size six.
The problem is the fashion industry, not the women.
100% agree it needs to change. But until it does one must be aware of the system and work within it. I suspect she was not given correct information from a stylist about what to expect in these situations.
I’m reading the same thing you do. Fashion is a business and it has it’s economic reality, like any other business. They make those sample to suits their needs. It simply would not be logical nor financially viable to prepare FREE dresses for every shape and size, just in case.
In my opinion, it is unreasonable (and a little entitled) to expect them to.
Exactly OP!
Her height is not an issue. Models are her height and they dress them. Don’t say it’s her fault that she’s tall.
Right ? It not like someone like Karlie Kloss is 5 foot 7
They didn’t say her height was the issue. They’re saying her body frame is the issue.
Yes, I saw a video about Karlie’s Met Gala dress and they said they needed a special maniqui because she is very tall. and Tom Ford made all models be super tall like Tiiu Kuik for his show. I don’t think height is a problem.
No it’s not her height which is why Kidman and Theron are always done up. They fit the sample sizes, they are twigs. I do think it’s an economic thing not racism. I also think she maybe doesn’t have a stylist so wasn’t given advice on the time needed for custom or alterations maybe? She’s not a big Hollywood star. She’s a SNL cast member. And SNL doesn’t have the cachet it used to have lol.
This is just the industry covering their butts because they got bad press. They tried to use the excuse that she waiting until the last minute (because finding that much fabric is so so hard *eyeroll*)-but she came out and said her stylist and agent had been reaching out to people for months.
And I don’t think it’s just a size thing with the fashion people.
Gotta agree with you here.
Melissa McCarthy has been killing it for years, and had people reaching out months ahead of time, but who would dress her?…
No one. So she created her own line to dress herself and others who don’t fit the snobby fashion industry’s ideal. I don’t give the fashion industry ANY credit at ANY time. It is the most misogynistic and in a weird way, self-hating homophobic industry out there. I hope it self-cannibalizes.
–TheRealPinky
Siriano has said he very much wanted to dress McCarthy, but that she only wanted to wear very specific styles, nothing he or any other designer would be willing to put their name on. Looking at her fashion range I can see why. She likes long-sleeved sack dresses with a loose empire waist. If that’s what she’s comfortable in, great, but she can’t expect designers to make her something they would never, ever design on their own. That’s not how it works for any celebrity.
IIRC Melissa went to design school before she became an actress. It sounds like it was a situation where she was trying to be a backseat driver on the design. I could see where that would make Christian crazy. Better for her to be designing her own clothes then.
This was my take on it, too. The whole piece read like one long, defensive rationalization to me.
It was. They were just using them as excuses. At the end of the day the designers just didn’t want their names associated with her for a host of nasty little reasons. Fashion feeds into, and off of, the world of Privilege where snobbery and exclusivity, and other carefully orchestrated delusions, are armor against the hordes of the great unwashed. They have extreme standards, like acceptable size for females, to maintain it. God forbid you ever look Common.
‘The difference is that now she’s starring in one of the hottest movies’
What
Did you not read the article? She is one of the four leads in Ghostbusters.
Maybe she’s just seen the god awful trailers. I’ll be going to see Bad Moms instead, personally.
@Suzanne That got a giggle from me.
I get that they can’t have every design in every size for financial reasons, but don’t you think a good designer would be able to look at one of their pieces already completed and think yes I can modify or recreate that for a taller or larger woman? Or offer something that is already in production in a variety of sizes? I don’t think it has to be a one-of-a-kind piece, Leslie and other women just want to look nice, and the designer should want to get their work out there.
I think that that ties into the “She should have known the date of the premier months ago” part. Maybe she did start going to people with plenty of time – and maybe they gave her the brush off. But if she needs something recut in her size, then she definitely needs to give as much time as possible. It sounds like Christian is willing to prioritize her though, so I think in the end it won’t be that much of an issue.
If my little tailor down the street can modify pieces rather easily there’s no reason world class designers wouldn’t be able to do the same. They just don’t want to make the effort.
Exactly.
I don’t think that is true though. It is probably not possible to resize a dress in size 4 to size 14 anyway.
But even if they tried, it is very difficult. Your local taylor is not putting his whole brand of risk for the whole world to see by doing it.
But there are quire a few stars who are bigger than size 0 or 2 in Hollywood! I mean, Meryl Streep, while in great shape for her age, obviously, does not look like size 2 to me. Adele, Melissa, Mindy, Gina, Laverne Cox and a BUNCH of women from OITNB, who’ve been on the red carpet like crazy. Caitlin Jenner does not look size 2 to me, mostly due to bone structure, but still. Heck, Jennifer Lawrence, the biggest star of her generation, according to some, claims that she’s size 6 and “fat” by Hollywood standards!
And I’m sure even more actresses would be grateful if they didn’t have to fit in a sample size – judging from all the horror stories about constricting undergarments they wear to fit and look good.
So, really, I think that if designers wanted to make slightly larger sample sizes, they’d find women to dress in them.
I also know nothing about sewing, but it seems to me that leaving a little bit of a margin in side seams so that the dress can be adjusted down to size 0 for the runway or size 8 for a bustier actress would not cost thousands of dollars? Altering it would require some work, but surely it wouldn’t be prohibitively expensive for a big designer house?
Adele wears big black bags basically. As for JLaw, she’s Dior’s girl so it’s not like it’s a surprise they have to make somethingnfor her before every event. And even if she wasn’t, everyone would be willing to risk the money for JLaw. Not necessarily forLeslie Jones though
Well, ok… that addresses 2 women out of 10 I named… And even more I didn’t.
And the dig about Adele is very much no longer true.
What’s more, I think it takes true taste, artistry, fashion sense, and craftsmanship to dress a full-figured woman so that she can look great, rather than a very slim gorgeous woman, who on top of everything is also sewn into a steel corset.
Thank you, voice of reason. Ladies here have forgotten, most actresses are not size 2. Lets get that clear. Also, if you read Leslies initial post, its not a new issue of her waiting, she has always had issue with finding a stylist. And well known stylists can get any damn thing they want with the right request… this is not a size issue. This is a “her name isn’t going to get me work” issue. They’ll consider it doing her a favor. They need to spend more than 5 minutes on the work needed to pull her look off.
I wonder why the studios aren’t responsible for getting their stars pulled together?
Because it’s not the studio system anymore.
Back in the day, the studio prepared a star for this. Mind you, the studio also mandated a makeover of the star’s body, face, style, life and relationships. The star was sent to a form of finishing school to learn about make-up, deportment, conversation etc. That’s why the old school stars, nurtured in that system look/looked fabulous.
Once the system was dismantled, it was everybody for themselves.
I remember Zoe Saldana talking about this when promoting Star Trek. Some studios will give them a budget because if the actress (not the actor mind you) is dress to the nine’s then it gets the film extra press. Not all of them do it though.
But it also goes back to what LAK said about the studio system. They controlled everything about their star, their clothes being one.
It’s not a studio system but most have it in their contract that the studio pays for everything to promote the film..this includes all transportation, clothes, hair, makeup, etc etc..for premiers, interviews, whatever..since this is supposed to be a big film, I can’t imagine that would be a problem. That doesn’t help with the designer/snob factor, but it’s snobby of celebs to assume they must wear one of four or five labels to be well dressed (we’ve all seen some pretty awful gowns from the haute’ bunch)
I think it’s best to say average size than normal size. Just because someone is a size four doesn’t mean they’re not normal.
Agree completely.
I’d go as far as to say that it’s the average sizes that are not exactly normal these days.
I don’t understand why some enterprising designer didn’t reach out to her first. Unless you live under a rock, you know that Lady Ghostbusters is coming out this summer and logically, its stars need to be dressed.
And Jessica paster can take a seat. LJ said afterwards that her team has been trying for months to find someone to work with. Even if she waited until Monday to start looking…the customer is always right. Unless the customer is a size 14 with dark skin, in which case it’s ok to say it’s her fault.
As someone that worked in retail for many years….the customer is not always right. The customer is rarely right and usually unreasonable
Yeah the only ones who say that are the ones who are in corporate – expecting their staff to shove a smile on and make accommodations. “The Customer is Always Right” is one of the most BS sayings there is. It’s not about them ACTUALLY being in the right – it’s about building a brand and having customer service that really bends to the will of the clients so they don’t mouth off on social media, for the most part.
Anyone who’s worked in retail – or an office that is partially a call center you KNOW that a lot of your time is spent dealing with entitled people who do nothing to help themselves and are looking for someone to blame. Yesterday I heard some management talking about a guy who for THREE years in a row has failed to pay the renewal fees on his hosting/domain. They’ve comped him twice already – and even though HE didn’t pay the renewal (and this has happened to him TWICE already) he expects US to comp it to him. This customer isn’t even a little bit right. But – he’s already threatening lawsuits which are going to likely be a waste of time and money for him.
I listened to a great podcast recently that discussed how America basically invented “the customer is always right” and that it’s whole load of BS that basically makes customers think that they’re entitled to treat people in the service industry like garbage with zero accountability for their actions.
The customer is always right is an American thing. In Europe it’s more “The customer is (almost) never right”.
@ Locke-they opened the podcast with this Russian guy who was saying that in Russia, customers beg to get seated at a restaurant. They have every right to turn away paying customers, even if the restaurant isn’t crowded.
Locke, lol. Can’t wait for my trip to Europe next month! 🙂 I kid, I’m pretty sure I won’t give Americans a worse name than they already have.
@Kitten,
Hmm, never had to beg to get seated at a restaurant in Russia. Service is often slow and lousy, yes, but begging to be seated? They do want your money still… They sit you just fine, after that – you’re on your own.
@Timbuktu-Oh sorry! I should have clarified that this was at the end of the Soviet Union’s collapse in early 90s when food shortages were common.
But this was all within the context of a greater conversation about customer service and how it differs from country to country. For instance, in Russia they don’t smile vs Americans who are all about smiling/eye contact etc etc.
There’s also a snobbery to it.
Who remembers when Ton Ford House humiliated Hayden Panetiere by making sure to announce they did not fit her, nor gift her, her Tom Ford Golden Globes dress. Reminding all that she actually bought it full price!
Heaven forbid anyone think the Ford house was looking to dress Hayden for the red carpet!.
Oh yeah. I still remember that. And didn’t the actual designer come out later supporting Hayden after she received that snob backlash?
Er, they didn’t announce they didn’t dress her, they just sent out a press release during the red carpet saying who they did dress. As all the fashion houses do. Hayden said she was wearing Tom Ford, but she wasn’t in the press release, so it was clear they didn’t dress her.
They didn’t set out to diss her at all, at the time the press release went out they wouldn’t have even known she was wearing TF. Frankly they wouldn’t have been out of line if they specify they didn’t dress her. These fashion houses choose who they dress extremely carefully, and Ford usually only dresses one person per event. If anyone things an off the rack dress, un-tailored dress from last season was ok’d by him for a red carpet, that hurts his brand.
Yep, I remember that whole crap show. How rude.
And I remember the Bryce Dallas Howard thing too. So dumb.
Tom Ford is a snob about sizes but that one was not on them.
i think it’s was a journalist or a blogger who humiliated her i remember that she received a a note or some flowers by tom ford (i guess )saying that she was beautiful in her dress
You’re right, and I felt bad for her, because nothing she could’ve said or done in that situation was going to have a good outcome.
It was actually a journalist who mocked the fashion faux pas, if I recall. I actually just found it charming that she loved the designer enough to buy the dress on her own money. I can see why Ford gave her flowers because that’s far more of a compliment to him than the reverse – being dressed by Tom Ford is usually the mark of the actress’s status than her affection for his clothing.
Leslie needs to call these designers’ bluff. Start asking on twitter for a dress for the Golden Globes or something else months away…. See if any designers actually take her up with advanced notice (besides Siriano). I’m betting they won’t.
LMAO, I would love that actually.
I hope she’s got that list, time to name and shame.
Um, no. You don’t get to dictate extra exclusive beauty patterns and then blame those who do not fit in them for your sizeism. When you get tl that point, it’s because you are part of the problem. I hope Leslie looks like a million dollars at the premiere. I’m sure she will.
I call BS. I worked with designers when I was younger and if they want to dress someone it gets done no matter what size. if the industry is ”lazy” and they only dress the sample size then there’s something wrong with that because they must know that not every actress is a size 2. I mean, she’s a size 8/10 not 22. It’s not that hard.
Yup, lots of words being said by designers to cover “she’s not our type of beautiful so we didn’t want to do it”
That may be an issue, but it’s not always about race here, especially since the biggest couture clients are actually middle Eastern and African ladies.
It’s the designer’s right to limit their designs, it’s not a charity.
Ps McQueen was very vocal about not dressing Victoria Beckham or royals. He was very public about it. They all started wearing his designs after his death.
A part of me is not buying “economics” as an excuse. If a designer really wanted to dress a celebrity they would, they would lose money in producing the dress, but make it back in publicity. It’s like paying a celebrity 10 million dollars to be the face of your brand because the name recognition advertises itself and you get 20 million back from profits. If a smaller design house such as Siriano’s has no problem doing it then what’s stopping Dior or Chanel…nevermind, I forgot they have a certain image to uphold.
And really how often do designers sells their runway samples or Oscar dresses. Samples are tailored to the model and probably don’t fit the average person who is going to pony up the cash to buy designer clothes. There are a number of ways designers can lose money if that’s the excuse stylists are going to use.
I think you are right, they just don’t think she is a good investment for them. It is cold, but this is how business works.
Yup not everyone can be beutiful- her co star Kristin I have never found that pretty either. But Kristin has a nice haircut for a face. With Leslie’s spiky short hair she’s refusing to conform to beauty ideals and she doesn’t pull it off as prettily as Natalie Portman did.plus she’s 50 and from her aggressive statement maybe doesn’t have the expected grace (not that she wants to) of a professional woman that age. So I can see it being very off brand
Fiorella, as a 50+ professional woman who had worked damn hard to get to this point, you can guess how I feel about “expected grace”. To me that translates as be subservient, don’t speak up for yourself. Screw that. No way to move forward.
Regardless of THEIR reality, the fashion industry needs to start seeing the wonderful variety of human beauty and not their narrow little version.
Siriano uses cheaper material, cheaper labour (the people who work on custom couture at the major fashion houses are very highly paid) and designs much simpler gowns. A custom dress should only cost him a few grand to make if that, and he can churn it out in a few days. I’m fairly sure he’s happy not to do fittings a lot of times, because many of his dresses fit badly and he’s a good enough designer that that shouldn’t be happening, so without that we’re probably looking at 2 days turnaround.
A custom dress from a major fashion house can easily cost $50,000 and require 100’s of hours of work. Even taking an existing sample and modifying it would cost at least $10,000, but taking a 0 or a 2 and making it an 8 or 10 never looks very good anyway, so no major designer will want to put their name to it.
Yes, I think you’re exactly right. Any decent marketer should know this.
The level of expertise at Chanel or Dior, and i’m talking seamstresses, nevermind the actual design, plus the materials used is several 100 levels above Siriano.
His couture dresses are only a few 000s, Dior and Chanel are closer to 6 figures. You don’t want to risk that kind of money on an actress of questionable media profile without a good reason.
There is such a huge range between Siriano and Dior, though, and that’s what’s getting me. What about a mid-range label that still has major production in place? A Monique Lhuillier, Michael Kors, etc?
Ok have to stop you there are literally only a handful of people, a handful, that can actually make the clothes Chanel does. Siriano doesn’t use the fabrics, the skilled workers or any of the detailed work that Chanel does. You are not even talking about the same level of designers.
Also economics does come into it, loaning these dresses doesn’t always make houses money especially with the ask her more but it does cost a fortune to do. Now it can make them money and gives them press so its worth it and it is important but don’t think economics isn’t a factor. However, giving a current season dress isn’t a huge cost.
I’m fully aware that Siriano and Chanel are not on the same level. My point was Siriano will do what it takes to design for a celebrity that doesn’t fit Hollywood’s size standards, while another designer who arguably has more resources to do so won’t. I’m just not buying economics as the sole reason.
For all the talk about the exclusivity of Chanel and Dior, I see a LOT of “blah” dresses that look cheap, generic and are poorly fitted to boot. And that’s with actresses who are “sample size”, since they clearly don’t bother with anyone larger than size 4. Soooooo… Since I can’t examine the stitching on a dress, not sure how I’m suppose to grow to appreciate the workmanship that goes into it if it just looks bad.
What a load of BS. I’ve seen what designers can do on Project Runway with just a couple of days to work. Makes sense it would be Christian Siriano who steps up. Make it work, people.
I think the issue is a bit more complex, and it is largely based on economics issues – I understand why designers cannot create samples in multiple sizes; I was offered a “sample” model job many years ago and it was precisely because I was fitting perfectly in the manufacturer’s size six, which is what they we showing buyers for their stores. They were not making the samples in every size, and this was a trendy manufacturer of cheap/ well priced clothes, so nothing as expensive as couture or high end clothes. Cost matters.
I also think that a star is expecting that she would be dressed in clothes that have either just been debuted on the runway or aren’t available to the public yet, because if you can order it at Nordstrom, what is the point of wearing on the RC? So yes, I do believe that most designers would work with her if given enough notice..
And finally, part of the problem is the public. In the AbFab post, I was shocked to hear praise for Jourdan. She is beautiful, but if her super slim legs and figure are the beauty standard, and the size for which designers design, how in the world would anyone expect that a dress that is made for her – both to look good and to fit – could work for anyone who is a size six or eight or ten?
Finally, I really hate the whole idea that Stars have of being dressed for free. I understand borrowing jewelry, but these people should be able to afford their own clothes (and I mean that for everyone, regardless of size.) Go work with a designer you like and get an outfit you love, made for you, that will fit properly, and pay for it.
Your last paragraph!!!
Emotions vs. economics.
Years ago I read an article about survival of the fashion designers. There was praise for Wolfgang Joop as one of few (if not the only one), who paid himself for his runaway show. Aparently it’s too expensive for many. There was a talk how fashion labels survive not from clothes but from bags, accessories ets. So I believe this stylist and her reasoning.
I keep my fingers crossed for Leslie Jones next time. IMO her tweet about having a long memory won’t work in her favour.
Yeah I had mixed feelings about that Tweet. On one hand it was awesome that she was so unapologetic about it. On the other, I wish she had kept the door open for designers to dress her in the future, instead of burning bridges. Oh well. She’s awesome regardless.
I guess I think it’s probably a combination of things. I do believe the explanation about the cost, but I also believe if Jones looked different that designers would be clamoring to dress her. And even if it IS about economics, that doesn’t change the very real fact that these cost-effective measures lead to sizeism.
@:Kitten: I think she looks just fine. Certainly not a model size but with good proportions and in shape. It may not be such an ordeal to dress her.
I personally think that her size is only part of the problem.
She may be a name in US but I imagine not exactly famous like Kerry Washington or Zoe Saldana or Beyonce or Rihanna or…in their case there will be “ask her more” or whatever. In Leslie’s case- I don’t know.
I have no clue how US designer choose whom to send a dress to, but I’ll go on a limb and say that the European will go for international recognition and Leslie Jones is not known here. I myself learned about her existence here on CB.
I guess noone will mind if she buy a dress herself, but her wearing a “Name” won’t bring the designer much .
I got the impression that Jones got a very dismissive response.
What I find interesting is who of the leading ladies (if one at all) got a dress such as Leslie wishes to have.
In reality there are very few actresses out there that have designers making dresses specifically for them. Most actresses if they can wear the items get dresses that have already been made and they were them. Then they return them. For the top tier designers they may work with a specific actress and make the dress for her because of the name recognition and the fact that pictures of that actress will be in many magazines and that PR is worth thousands of dollars that went into making the dress. Leslie is in a big movie.. The movie hasn’t come out yet. After GB nobody knows what is next for her. And to assume because she is in this movie designers are going to run to dress her is not the way. Most designer unless they are working with a actress know whether or not they are going to even wear the dress.
I think it sucks that there are not designers that rushed to dress her.. but there are many sides to this story. It would be great if it were black/white but it’s not fully.
So the exposure they could get is not worth making alterations to a dress they already have or cutting some extra fabric and making a new one? Leslie is not looking for a dress fresh from the runway. She just wants to look nice on her big night. The woman has been busting her ass for years to get to this point it’s not too much to ask to be treated with some respect.
How do you know Leslie wasn’t looking for a dress fresh from the runway? We don’t know who she asked or what she asked for. And we don’t know she wasn’t treated with respect. Declining to make a business deal with someone because it would be disadvantageous to you is not inherently disrespectful.
I personally don’t buy that it’s about ‘economics’. Just like Hollywood insists on making whitewashed/ white saviour movies even if they bomb at the box office, the designers probably work they way they do because they want it that way. Fashion is not
about being inclusive, after all.
Yeah funny how economics don’t matter so long as they’re in support of whatever message Hollywood wants to keep pushing.
Just shows that designers and stylist are useless and overhyped.
Just like hand-made shaving brushes. But as long as there ARE buyers they will be produced.
So let me get this straight, the reason behind the dominance of size 0 /2 in the fashion and movie industry is because designers and stylists need to save money? That’s their argument…
It sounded more like they’re saying she needed to plan ahead more, not that no one was willing to do it. But she’s not exactly famous enough to be given free clothes yet, anyway. It’s her first big movie. I’m overweight, and if this were the Oscars, I’d see her point. But for her first movie premiere, a movie that has a ton of trolls hating on it (unfairly, I’ll admit), and as such isn’t a guaranteed hit? She should get free clothes for that? Nope.
How about having runway models in sizes ranging from 0 to 10 for a change? Than they will have samples to lend for Hollywood stars of every shape and form. But no, they stick to the skinny ideal branded in their heads, and we all just follow lead, with women living on strict diets for years just to fit in this narrow criteria of beauty. Makes me really mad! 🙁
Catwalk models have always been thinner than editorial models or any other type of models. This is nothing knew. Most women were also rational enough to recognise this, and to recognise that the clothing would be adapted to suit different body types. Not simply demand that the sample sizes be made available to them as fitted on the model.
At some point in the 00s, actresses started having this ridiculous expectation and have influenced women to think the same when sample sizes were always supposed to be suggestions, not the rule.
And due to this ridiculous expectation, actresses have to starve themselves down to a smaller size to fit into the sample sizes. That is a market they have created. And it’s a pity that the redt of the world has followed suit.
this makes perfect sense – perfect explanation.
There’s an exception to what you’ve been saying. During the 1990s, the age of the supermodel, editorial models were also used as catwalk models. The credit for this goes to Gianni Versace, who decided, at the suggestion of Vogue’s Liz Tilberis, that the top models (Cindy, Naomi, Christy, Linda, etc.) he used in his ads and editorials would also be used as the models in his fashion shows. He was the first designer to popularize this and the other designers followed suit, because doing so meant more publicity and hype (since supermodels generated as much interest as the top Hollywood actresses of that time).
It was beneficial all around because more people would attend catwalk shows if a group of supermodels were appearing in them. The demand for big names drove up a supermodel’s fee, too, but the designer’s clothes would also get more attention and more sales in the process.
Keep in mind, too, that the 90s supermodels were often a size 4-6. Designers sure didn’t have a problem making sample sizes in that range. What’s their excuse now? Fashion designers deserve a major share of the blame. They’re the ones in control – they decided to make sample sizes in 2, 0, and 00. They dictated the terms and forced a later generation of models to be even skinnier.
Depending on who you ask, the reason why supermodels won’t come back is because designers don’t want them. They couldn’t order them about like before. Those models overshadowed the clothes and had more autonomy and designers eventually resented that.
I know a few people who’ve worked in the business for decades. They’ve said that it’s easier for designers to control models who are younger (teenagers) and starving (how are you going to be assertive when you’re too busy dealing with malnourishment?) Models who have less power are more disposable and can be paid much less than a supermodel.
Also, this whole BS about models like Karlie Kloss who work out to be healthy and strong – not buying it.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/02/article-0-0F0783D400000578-575_634x851.jpg
They work out to have very low levels of body fat. If you look at them (and I’m including Victoria’s Secret models), they are very lean but don’t have the muscles of women who work out for strength.
Izabel Goulart may have abs because she has little body fat, but look at her arms and legs. Since breasts are made of fat and models aren’t allowed to have fat, many of them (like Gisele) get implants. https://kaulakia.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/izabel20goulart.jpeg
It’s all about these models being as skinny as possible. That’s what the designers decree and the models must conform, since they have little power in the fashion industry anyway. Since Hollywood is so dependent on the fashion industry to dress their stars on the red carpet, is it any wonder that actresses now starve themselves to fit the even smaller sizes the designers produce?
This reasoning that editorial models and catwalk models are separate and cannot overlap is just an excuse because during that golden age in the 90s, supermodels worked in both categories to great success and proved the opposite.
Stella Alpina: i’m aware that editorial and catwalk models merged in the 90s, but the rule remains that catwalk models tend to skinnier. Having 2-3 big models ie supermodels in the show means fittings for those girls will be bigger,but the other models are symph-like.
The trend since the 90s has also been for super thin models such that even the supermodels had to lose weight to continue having careers.
To tjis day, if you want to walk the runway, you have to be a little thinner than for other types of modelling work. If you can combine all of it, then great, but you maintain or lose the weight to walk the catwalk.
None of that nullifies my point which is that women and especially actresses once had the common sense understanding that sample sizes and catwalk clothing was a suggestion. If a customer liked a sample, it could be adjusted to fit customer. This applied for couture and ready to wear alike.
Actresses decided they wanted to fit into those sample sizes made up for the ultra skinny catwalk models, and sadly they often aren’t naturally skinny like the models.
This has infected then with skinny-itis in order to be sample size ready at all times.
We’ve gone from being aghast at the portruding bones of the Ally McBael cast due to competitve dieting to be the skinniest on-set to admiring actresses for wearing something straight off the catwalk and completely glossing over the skinny size they have to be to achieve that. And if they find it impossible to maintain that skinny body and thus sample sized clothing, they bitch about it and have turned it into a national past-time that in turn has infected the rest of female population with the desire to be skinny enough to fit these ridiculously small clothes as if there are no other options.
LAK, I hear what you’re saying, I do, but there’s more to it. It’s common practice for sample sizes to be available at a discounted price. I’m talking haute couture and high-end designer clothes. With larger sizes for the same dress or outfit, a client has to pay full price. If they can fit the sample size and they are actually buying, they get the outfit at a lower price. This rule especially applies to the few fabulously wealthy ladies who can afford to regularly buy haute couture.
Because of this, it’s not hard to figure out that wealthy women and Hollywood actresses have conformed to fit into sample sizes, not the other way around. Designers choose to continue to make sample sizes 0-2 instead of 4-6. That’s what’s available. The wealthy and the famous want the exclusivity and prestige of wearing a designer brand, so they conform to the dictates of those designers.
Think of all those actresses who started out slim but also healthy, who then dieted down to emaciated proportions after they increased their profile and became red carpet fixtures. Actresses are already pressured to lose weight because the camera adds 10 lbs. Designers can spare some time making slightly larger sample sizes for famous actresses who are greater than a size 2. A 6 is not that big a difference. It’s telling that they don’t and yet they use actresses more often than models as spokespeople for their major campaigns, provided the actresses lose more weight.
Actresses demanding to wear sample sizes is the tail wagging the dog. Designers are the ones in power calling the shots, not actresses. They need actresses to promote their clothes and accessories but they make them jump through hoops. Their ridiculously tiny sizes demonstrate narrow-minded views: elitism, snobbery, misogyny, and dislike of curvy female bodies. Sofia Vergara is not big but she’s curvy. She wears a 6-8 and she’s often said how difficult it is to get anything from designers. There really is no justifiable reason why sample sizes should be 00-2, when it was closer to 4 for decades. A woman doesn’t have to be a size 0 to be sylph-like.
I think I audibly snorted when I read the stylist say ” Unfortunately, she’s not a sample size.” Unfortunately? Lol, what a shame and a travesty for that poor stylist.
So can someone tell me how much a dress would cost if it costs $5000 – $10000 to design? That just blows my mind.
That was with materials right? Usually what is designed is sold in stores so they don’t cost more tha. That amount . Brands donate dresses (and the time and materials involved) when it benefits them
Depends on the designer.
I would never pay that much for a dress from Calvin Klein as an example, but i would from Dior or chanel. The tailoring and hours spent on making this dress, plus details and materials of each dress are the reason it costs so much.
Calvin Klein isn’t so detailed, materials are cheaper and dress feels like it was run off a job lot.
they literally said its her fault for not reaching out for designer IN TIME! Nobody said anything about how its her fault shes the wrong size! I work as a designer myself and I agree that its not cool that sample sizes are so small (at least in Hollywood that is, because I know most of the sample sizes for premiers and stuff in Germany are 36/38 which is an US 8/10. For model fittings its a different story, because yes, most of the models are sizes 4 or less. BUT then its different, because models are wayyy taller than the average woman so you cant compare the sizes of the samples.
It literally takes weeks to finish a gown ESPECIALLY when the costumer has a unique body type. It has to be fitted several times and it all costs time and money. She should have cared for that fact.
I know that fashion people are very frowned upon and marked as superficial or whatever but most of them are hard working people. We DO make clothes for “normal” body types and those have to come to fittings just as the size 0 model has to come for alterations. Please dont be so close minded and please, just dont make up stories like that!
As Scal said above, she and her people have been reaching out to people for months. MONTHS. If you can’t make something in 4-5 months you’re in the wrong industry.
Exactly. They said one thing after she called them out and when they tried that excuse she came back with receipts. I’m sure you try to work to dress normal people by none of those major designers seem to give a damn.
Please, even if her team couldn’t give the exact date of the premiere, it doesn’t take 5 months to alter or make a dress. Also, for fashion week, I remember Donatella finishing garments at the last second and her workers being on coke to sustain the long ass hours.
Also I remember Rihanna complicated diamond dress that took 1 month to MAKE and they spend the night before the event with a team of people putting in the finishing touches.
IF designers want to, they can put in a lot of time and effort to meet deadlines at short notice when it gives them good publicity (like with a famous celebrity or to introduce their own new line for a fashion event). They just don’t want to design or alter ANYTHING for Leslie even when they have plenty of time to do so and they’re coming up with half-assed excuses for their appalling behaviour.
Do you really think if Beyoncé, Rihanna or Oprah needed a dress say in 2 weeks time, famous designers wouldn’t put 20 people on the job to make it happen? And if any of these ladies would change their minds last minute, do you think designers would dare to open their mouths to the press about it? No. So there were other things at play here, let’s not pretend.
I don’t know, I think if I wanted someone to dress me for free I wouldn’t be upset if I was refused. This is a business decision for a designer. It is similar in a way to them hiring models , they want a certain look /size. It is very subjective and unfair.
I think she could find an upcoming designer to design for her but she would probably need to pay since designers who are not yet established can’t afford to dress her for free.
In the end it seems to be about the money.
I’ll flip that back and say that if the designer makes the choice not to dress her, he or she can’t be upset when she complains about it publicly. They’ve made the determination that she isn’t worth the effort while simultaneously choosing to dress other actresses. Why shouldn’t she complain?
Why can’t a designer gift her a dress in her size that is ALREADY made? They sell dresses in other sizes. Why not send over several options? I agree that the explanation is cover for being jack holes.
Nah. There are other factors involved and they know it.
Yup. Twisting them into pretzels saying it’s economics, she didn’t give enough time, they could go bankrupt, hurt their brand etc. God forbid they have a “fat” person wearing their clothes. The horror! It is such an issue with so many layers and why people are so quick to forget that the fashion industry is very cruel and snobby industry is beyond me. I guess it’s easier to accept this explanation than dig deeper.
How many actresses get a custom gown for a movie premiere? It isn’t like she’s Angelina Jolie showing up for Magnificent II or something …
It’s probably the norm for actresses of her status to be denied by designers. The top ones don’t dress anyone that isn’t A-List and it’s probably too much of an investment for too little exposure for many of them.
I agree!
I looked up the other people in the movie. Of the four ghostbusters, Kate McKinnon seems to be on the same rung of fame as Leslie. I doubt Kate is getting to wear a custom dress for the premiere. I guess it’s more accurate to say that I doubt a designer is engaging Kate to participate in product placement by giving her a dress to wear at the premiere. Like you said, it would be too much investment for the exposure they would get in return.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the plan all along was for Leslie to wear a Siriano gown to the premiere, and they launched this twitter outrage as a way to get more publicity for Siriano.
And yet Kate Bosworth and Jessica Alba get offered designer gowns to wear, but what big movies are they in? None. They are not sought-after actresses. They aren’t close to A-List. But they have the “right” proportions (very slim) and fit the fashion industry’s narrow idea of beauty, so they get the clothes.
These stylists with their excuses are full of it.
I see your point. I still think this twitter outrage was manufactured as a way to promote Siriano’s plus sized fashion line. http://tinyurl.com/jmzj8pk
It sounds like the stylists are saying sometimes they have sample sizes already made and ready to go. If these dresses happen to be the size of the actress, they might be offered to her for a premiere. This would be an inexpensive way to advertise. Nothing has to be custom made which would cost money. So putting an already made gown on a Bosworth or an Alba might not get the designer a lot of exposure because of their relatively low level of fame, but it would cost them nothing. They might decide a little bit of exposure for nothing is a good business decision.
If something has to be custom made, the designers would have to weigh the cost of the gown versus the amount of exposure the actress wearing it would buy them. If a gown costs $10,000 to custom make, a designer might decide that is too much to pay for the amount of exposure the actress’ fame level would return. So someone on the fame rung Jones or McKinnon occupy might not be asked to enter into what amounts to a product placement arrangement. The little bit of exposure they would bring would not be worth the cost of making a dress, so it would not be a good business decision.
Siriano has a plus sized fashion line, so he may have a gown in a plus size ready to go that fits Jones. If that’s the case, he is following the business model that the rest of the fashion world follows…offer already made sample sizes to actresses who fit in them. If he is making her a custom gown, he may have done a cost analysis, and decided the price of the gown was worth the amount of exposure Jones and her outrage are bringing him. Jones and her outrage seem to be bringing him more exposure than the other designers get with “very slim” proportions.
I somewhat agree that if your famous enough they’ll bend a little to dress you. No one started lining up to Lupita until she became an Oscar winner. Langfried dismissed Lillie Allen and J-lo but didn’t he wind up designing they’re wedding dresses? I know J-lo for sure wore Chanel outfits. Keep up the good work and wait a few years Leslie Jones.
If I was Leslie I’d wear that black dress AGAIN cause she looks AMAZING IN IT.
Gorgeous!
Size-splaining reads so much like white-splaining, it isn’t even funny.
I find it very hard to believe that if q designer made q size 10 dress that the client didn’t like, that they would have a hard time selling it. That’s so silly. Wealthy people are all sizes and would pay top dollar for someone’s leftovers! Makes no sense.
Not sure why Leslie didn’t ask Melissa McCarthy to design a dress for her. She has her own line now and has made her red carpet dresses. Granted she’s not a famous designer in the classic sense. Love Siriano and that he’s proud to dress her.
Sample Sizes are 2 max, but actual women are not. Got it.
Oh, and did Mellissa McCarthy have her own ideas? Well, then I guess there’s no reason to bother with any OTHER non-size 2 celebs, ever. Fat women had their chance.
BTW, I have to say I find the contemporary runways very crass. My shoes are Choo, my dress is Prada my jewels Bulgari……
I find it tasteless to deconstruct yourself into a list of products and price-tags.
Ok I work in high end fashion and there is some truth to this, designers don’t have racks of sizes around, and if the brand is European then their US office may not have samples. That being said I have seen them adjust dresses for extremely short/small actresses which meant figuring out actual proportions was difficult. Also they do have items available from current season that they can give on short notice so, yeah if you aren’t sample size you can’t get upcoming collection but you can with out a doubt get something pulled from the stores without issue (I know as I’ve done it).
So no it is not Leslie’s fault, not if she wants something from the recent runway that could be hard. That however, is hard for a lot of people but I don’t think that is what she was asking for I think she wanted a good dress/outfit. And there is no reason she couldn’t have that for premier from current season, which lets be real with current business its not like they couldn’t use the press.
So yeah this guy is just lazy and stupid.
What about the RC dresses Viola Davis and Octavia Spencer wear?? Are they gratis or paid for?
I don’t know about Viola Davis, but Octavia Spencer mainly collaborates with designer Tadashi Shoji on her red carpet looks.
I don’t know about Viola Davis, but Octavia Spencer mainly collaborates with designer Tadashi Shoji on her red carpet looks.
She wants a free dress custom made in her size, which is an abnormal size in Hollywood…so while all the other sample dresses can be used for more than one purpose (premiers, awards shows, catwalks, print ads, etc) her dress will be used just for her. And people think she’s justified? Cheese and rice what a crazy world we live in now.
If I could get my wedding dress at Sears for 80 bucks, Leslie Jones can find a nice dress there as well. And maybe another aspect of her getting “slammed” has to do with her attitude. She’s not an A-List star, she’s on a sh!tty sketch show that should have been cancelled decades ago. And this is only her first movie. For her to say something like “I don’t forget” just smacks of entitlement and assuming she’s going to become a huge star after one movie and the same designers who refused her will be fawning over her in the future. My guess is, um, NOT.
And here you go again with this Sears’ comment 🤔 Name another actress who has to get all of her red carpet looks from Sears and then I would say you’re on to something. Furthermore, she hasn’t done anything so far to show that she has a nasty attitude but I can guarantee that many actresses with bad attitudes have zero problem getting styled for the red carpet. The problem isn’t her attitude and you know it.
Sigh. …
It honestly sounds kind of entitled…why are you entitled to a free designer dress? Because you’re a famous actress? I just don’t get it when people want something for free and throw a tantrum about it. Yeah your body is normal sized and not model sized. But you couldn’t find a more gracious way of bringing attention to the issue than attacking designers without even knowing what they go through or appreciating the enormous privilege it is to even receive a beautiful gown to wear for FREE???
Well she’s rocking the two dresses in the pics! She’s hilarious! Love her on SNL.
BTW Leslie Jones WINS to have Christian Siriano basically wave his tiny hand and say “of course I will dress her.” He’s amazing. And the wordswordswords about how hard it is to create a sample is a bit overwrought. If anyone watched the Siriano Season of Project Runway, they know he can literally create haute couture in a fraction of the time it takes others. It’s what he does. He had more time to sit around and mindf*ck his fellow designers than anything else because he works so fast. He’s a genius. It’s a total win for the 6′ stunner. 🙂
I understand the frustration of making a dress, and an actor going against it and then being out that money. But that still doesn’t excuse having only one sample size to show clients.
Maybe the industry should change and the actors (or the company they are promoting the film for or whatever) should have to put a deposit down in case of cancellations or anything like that.
There just shouldnt be a reason why you can’t accommodate different sizes.
However, as I said yesterday, her lack of fame could also be part of the problem. If you’re not a “household name” then no one is gonna care what dress you have on. Or at least they think so.
I don’t believe that big labels like Dior or Armani can afford to make only one sample size.
I think the stylists perspective was fair – they’re not saying it’s right, just how it is. Though, I would point out that Leslie seemed to talking about designers more than stylists.
Lol. You think it’s just because she’s a big, tall girl.
That economic excuse makes me laugh. If 5k can bankrupt your co, it means you already doing it wrong and about to collapse anyway. They didnt want to dress her because she is not model size, has curves and they are lazy or just untalented. And because they didnt think she will hit it big like I dunno, Lupita, maybe. And Lupita is probably size 2 (not her fault, of course!).
I’m pretty sure most actresses that fit their size 0 and 2 also need adjustments because most of them seems shorter, not model size. But I guess they didnt have problem with that~/s
I love how she publicly had a hussy fit because no one wanted to give her something for free……
I haven’t commented anywhere for a long time but this is…..a thing. I love dlisted and there is so much hate against this woman over there it’s shocking. I’m a Libra so I want to see everyone’s side. I don’t think this is a race thing, or a size thing like all these people are trying to say. I’m going to make a guess and say it’s an image thing. Brooke Shields is tall, super muscular and gorgeous. Katie Holmes is tall, muscular and gorgeous. I don’t watch SNL anymore but when I googled this woman I saw a hilarious video of her with Tyrion Lannister. I’m going to guess that maybe designers aren’t getting a feminine “vibe” from her for inspiration, due to her comedic background. There’s no vision there, and no one had the balls or talent to look at her beauty, the canvas, not the “image” Her comedic image.
I will say I think it’s strange that she worked with Melissa and MM didn’t warn her of the……problems getting a designer to dress someone not size 0-4. But….maybe she did!
It seems this ‘Hollywood Stylist’ has never seen a single episode of Project Runway. They prove every week that you can make a fab gown with a hundred bucks and 12 hours at a sewing machine (if you have a glue gun handy). Any woman over size 2 in hollywood should be seeking out these young, hungry, underexposed designers and telling the establishment to f*ck off!
I do wonder about the actual designers she reached out to dress her; if they were big names or middle tier designers?
I say this because most up and coming designers would give their eye teeth to showcase a piece on the red carpet. There is a lot more to this story and only when we hear the designer’s side of the story, then we can get a more accurate picture of what went wrong with this scenario. I don’t want to just take the stylist’s blurb or Leslie’s tweets, but I want comments from the actual designers.
A small cynical part of me thinks this drama is to drum up some publicity for the movie; methinks Siriano was always the chosen designer, but hey ho, I’m a conspiracy nut!