My mother was a teacher. She’s now retired, but she has particularly strong feelings about any story involving teachers having relationships with students. If you want to get her riled up, just ask her what she thinks of a teacher sleeping with some 13-year-old boy. You’ll get a lecture about how all kids that age are “smelly booger-eaters” and how those teachers are disgusting. So, I don’t find the teacher-student-relationship stories to be particularly sympathetic whatsoever. Mary Kay Letourneau was one of the first of these teacher-student stories to really get national (or even international) attention. Back in 1996, Mary Kay Letourneau, a 34-year-old married mother of four, abused a 12-year-old sixth grader in her class, Vili Fualaau. She became pregnant. Years of chaos followed, including a stint in jail and Mary Kay’s name on the sex-offender registry. She eventually married Vili and had a second child with him. Well, now Vili has filed for separation. Sigh…
Former schoolteacher Mary Kay Letourneau and husband Vili Fualaau, with whom she began a sexual relationship when he was her sixth-grade student in Seattle in 1996, have legally separated and a reconciliation seems unlikely, PEOPLE confirms.
“They’ve been having issues for a while now,” says a source close to the couple. “They tried to work through them, but it didn’t work. They’re still committed to being good parents to their children.”
There is no third party involved in the relationship, the source says. Letourneau’s attorney, David Gehrke, says it was Fualaau who filed for separation.
“She could try to contest it, but that’s legally tough to do,” he says. “Perhaps if they want to figure out about the children and child support, but their kids are getting pretty old now. When one person is unhappy in the relationship, the other person can’t be happy either,” he continues. “And there are two people in this relationship.”
Their initial affair — which began while Letourneau was a 34-year-old mother of four and Fualaau was 12 — ignited national controversy and revulsion, particularly after she defied a court order to stay away from Fualaau. “The two of them want to be together,” a friend of Letourneau’s told PEOPLE in a 1998 cover story. “They’re drawn together like magnets.”
Prosecutors took a different view, arguing at the time that Letourneau “doesn’t believe she did anything wrong.” After the relationship was revealed, she pleaded guilty to two counts of second-degree child rape and was sentenced to seven and a half years in prison. She and Fualaau married in May 2005 after she was released, and they have two children.
“I’m convinced they were totally in love,” Gehrke says. The couple’s second child, Georgia, was born while Letourneau was behind bars.
So, he was 12 years old in 1996, which makes him 32 or 33 right now. Which is close to the age that Mary Kay was when she abused him. I remember this happening when I was a teenager (I was just a few years older than Vili) and I thought, at the time, that Mary Kay just seemed so OLD and that’s why it was gross. But now, looking back on it at my current age, Mary Kay seemed like such a damaged woman. She abused him, of course, and she was completely deserving of all of the punishment she received (and then some). But there was always something messed up/not-right about the way she dealt with everything. And yeah, of course Vili is probably pretty tired of this. It’s been twenty years. He never had a childhood.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
Good for Vili. I’m glad he’s finally getting away from his abuser and I hope he finds some semblance of healing. He looked so trapped in that joint interview they did a couple years ago. So miserable and haunted. I hope he gets his life back, somehow.
Yes, these were my immediate thoughts, too.
exactly how I feel.
poor kid never had a childhood; he was a father at…what, 13? what she did was SO gross.
That was my same thought!
Not so fast. Peoples story comes from a “source”. Radar is carrying the divorce story with quotes from Villi himself. He says its a manouver to get his marijuana trading license. Apparently under law he cannot get it because they check for any criminal history of the applicant AND spouses. She served two prison terms so the application would be outrightly rejected. I would love him to leave her and maybe write this story from his renewed perspective but I really dont think he will leave her, just divorce her.
I think the separation is because of the marijuana license as well. He made a statement to the effect of they still love each other and just because they’re separated doesn’t mean they’re not together. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like this is a situation where the victim is finally breaking free of his abusive relationship. I think he’s probably irreversibly messed up from this experience, and they’ll be more than enmeshed forever. She’s disgusting.
I saw that too. Well now that he said that does he not think the board will still reject his license on the grounds of fraud? Separation is not divorce. They are still married.
+1 Ramona. Was going to post that according to him, they’re divorcing but staying together. This is just so he can get into the marijuana business
Man, I was excited to see him separate from her as well, but it being false seems more realistic now, unfortunately. 🙁 I feel like Villi won’t ever have a chance to “deprogram” from the amount of brainwashing she’s likely done to him since a young age unless he were to go away to college or something.
Well said. She’s a child abuser. Period.
So sad if he isn’t actually getting away from her! I just watched the interview for their 10 year anniversary. It made me ill. She is so clearly disturbed, delusional, and a pathological manipulator in every segment. Every time he answers a question she stares at him intently as if making sure he says everything right and ‘corrects’ him several times. She is obviously a disturbed person and yes, I believe untreated mental illness is very apparent. They met when he was 7! 7 years old. I feel so sorry for her older children. How painful for them and creepy. Just ick-She was his 2nd grade teacher and later his 7th grade teacher. 2nd. Grade. Gross. They started their interactions and flirtations when he was 12. He was from a struggling lower income home with an absent dad and was vulnerable to begin with. She is deranged and I hope he can get his life back on track after decades of abuse. She probably doesn’t want him to go to college and get his high school degree but I hope he does for his sake. Such a sad case. I remember when this happened. I hope he has a success story to share in ten more years. Psychological and emotional abuse is a conversation that needs to be had.
As a parent it’s horrifying to read about this “couple”
She was and still is so incredibly disgusting.
She actually got pregnant with their second child while out on parole, which she violated, so she was back in jail and pregnant. The marriage came later, and some entertainment show televised it as a happy ending.
I live in Seattle, so I know entirely too much about it. I had to listen to the “true love” arguments, which were disgusting…
Agreed; I hate this woman. She literally stole his life away from him by saddling him with children when HE WAS A CHILD himself. I will never forget that haunting interview he gave where he seemed so unhappy. Also what about her original 4 children?!? Was it good for them for Mom to be in jail? She is just the MOST selfish evil person. I hope all 6 of her children have access to therapy to help deal with growing up with a narcissist as a mother.
I think her other children and ex husband cut her out of their lives. They have no contact whatsoever. I say good for them.
@hollyhobby-no she’s apparently still close to her kids. There was a picture of all her daughters together.
She only got sympathy because she was attractive and the media ate it up. If she had been even an average looking woman she would have been thrown under the prison and locked up for life.
Clearly the welfare of the 4 children she already had when she began the abuse of a student was not even a consideration. I agree, she must be a narcissist. She essentially abandoned her children. That is horrible. That being said, they were probably better off not being raised by her for much of their childhood.
I am just amazed at how much sympathy she got. She was a manipulative psycho who groomed and victimized a 12 year old boy. It is not Romeo and Juliette. Yet she only served 3 months in jail until she defied the judges court order.
I know. It is sick. She ruined his life.
Agreed. Disgusting.
Let’s not forget her contact with Vili after she was initially released from jail wasn’t a phone call. She was arrested for having sex with him in her car.
Her actions were so self destructive that I recall feeling sorry for both families because they were being destroyed by untreated mental illness. I have no idea if she ever sought treatment, but I hope for those six kids she did.
yep yep—making sure she got knocked up each time to bind him to her. She’s obviously messed up, but the amount of sympathy she got and all her manipulation of the media and the media shaping it as a the ultimate teacher fantasy because she was pretty and young is all so disgusting.
Thank you. I felt as if this woman received a ton of sympathy for being a pedophile. I still see folks making light of this because of this latest announcement and it makes me ill.
I remember this as a kid and being all “gross”. Didn’t understand it at the time. However went to high school with the teen at the center of the Debra Lafave case and was appropriately shocked and sad. She also tried to get hired at our high school because of him. Predatory. But it highlighted how people viewed these cases vs male teacher predators. Which is still disgusting.
What she did was wrong and altered this guy’s life forever. Unacceptable.
I read a very compelling first-person account of a guy who was the target of a woman like this. Teacher/student and, at first, he was all “yeah, I’m getting some!” but eventually realized how he was being abused and what a sad (and yes, pathetic) person his teacher was. like, he wanted to stop the “relationship” and she got all clingy and stalkerish.
his message was basically “it’s not all ‘Hot for Teacher’ awesomeness that you’re getting laid at 16 by the teacher, it’s abuse, it’s sad, and it messes everyone up who’s involved”.
Exactly. The guy that ended up in my high school was bragging about it until he realized that no one found it “brag worthy”. Everyone was either disgusted or sad about him. Then it got out that she was going to follow him to our school and everyone was upset including my own teachers. It was a disgusting situation.
Part of that mentality is the media’s fault. When you have LaFave and Letourneau being labeled “hot” for “bagging” young guys of course they will either hide their feelings about the abuse or have a delayed response to it. Even this article is somehow painting MKL as some sympathetic character. No she’s a predator. Sometimes I wonder how he feels about it now…the case made his high school life difficult for sure.
I’ve known the victim in the Molly Shattuck case for almost his whole life. She was a former trophy-wife who at one point held the title as oldest NFL cheerleader. She raped and traumatized at 15 year old boy, and was sentenced to probation- no jail time.
It was so heart-breaking to hear how he was groomed, coerced, and intimidated by this pedophile, who gets a slap on the wrist because she has money/status/priviledge. The saddest thing is seeing all the shame and lonliness he dealt with afterwards, his rape being treated like a joke. It’s sickening.
I remember reading somewhere that Letourneau’s dad was also a teacher who had a sexual relationship with a 13 year old girl. Can anyone verify this?
One of his college students. Her dad was a real piece of work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._Schmitz
wow, i had no idea.
Wow! That Wikipedia profile was very crazy interesting.
I loved his quote on his failed bid to be President of the US in 1972:
“I lost the Presidency by a mere 44 million votes”
Parental modeling is SO important. I caught my just turned 13 year old daughter kissing her little boyfriend, after I had explicitly talked to her about what was acceptable behavior when you are NOT DATING. I took her to the mall where she was meeting him and another of her girlfriends. Needless to say, she is grounded for at least a month, and no more snapchat, no computer and her phone will only accept calls and texts from numbers I have approved.
At least her little ‘boyfriend’ is age appropriate. I can’t even imagine what Vili’s parents went through. She IS a real piece.
Wow… this is a terrible reaction. You’ve essentially just slut-shamed your daughter at a fragile age. Most people I know had their first kisses aged 13-15. It’s harmless, it’s hormones, it’s growing up. Talk to her, sure. Make sure she is always safe and okay. But punishing her for kissing her boyfriend? That’s puritanical and will probably backfire on you. You’ve just taught your daughter that it’s better to keep secrets from you than to tell you what is going on in her life – otherwise she’ll get punished. You’re far better off encouraging her to confide in you and trust you than to punish her for harmless, standard teenage behaviour.
Your kid’s probably just gonna start hiding stuff from you and then get pregnant at 16 because she was too scraed to come to you about getting on the pill.
I’m not trying to tell you what to do regarding boys, but we’ve raised three girls and when you try and keep girls/boys apart it rarely works. They will find a way to talk. After we tried that with our oldest (who is now 24 and still with the boy we tried to keep her from), we learned our lesson. Just monitor and be aware and have an open relationship with your kids. Speaking from someone who has been there and dealt with a lot of bitterness from my oldest (who is just NOW getting over that after this all happening 6 years ago!), it is much better to give them a little bit of rope then try to be a dictator. It just doesn’t work in today’s society. You’re going to make yourself miserable trying to figure out if they are talking to each other or communicating. If he’s a decent kid and she’s a smart girl it will all be ok!
That’s my two cents….been there!
@crumpet
I know we shouldn’t tell others how to parent, but what a bad idea girl. You know as a kid when your parents tell you not to do something, you just do the opposite. Why not teach your daughter about safe sex and make it a safe subject. Nothing wrong with two consenting 13 year olds wanting to make out.
IDK…when I was 14 my parents caught me sneaking out to meet up with my 19 year old boyfriend. They were incredibly upset and I was grounded. Eventually, they DID allow me to see him again but under supervised conditions, like they wouldn’t let me close the door if we were watching a movie in the den or whatever. However, he lived with his grandma in a nursing home (mother committed suicide and dad left when he was a baby) and when I was there, his grandma often was not. Or if she WAS there, she was sleeping in her room or whatever.
I think they handled it the right way but it wasn’t an easy decision for them. I think parents need to draw their own line based on each individual child. It’s not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. Some children respond well to discipline, and others do not.
*shrugs*
Hi Crumpet, my mom acted exactly like you and because of that we have no real deep communication to this day.
Made it very clear I wasn’t supposed to have sex before being married, and ideally none of that other stuff either. Fast forwarded through movie kissing or sex scenes. Was incensed when she found out I was sleeping with my boyfriend of 3 years at 18. She at least allowed me to have ‘boyfriends’, which is good because it would have been worse if she hadn’t.
But even as a kid I knew what judgement was, and I hid everything from her. I made more mistakes than I should have because I didn’t trust her and couldn’t turn to her for advice.
I second all of what SKF says.
I don’t know…forbidden fruit and all that. She will probably still do it and hide it.
I am afraid I agree with the other posters here. Punishing your girl for kissing a boy by taking away all things that are considered almost a necessity in today’s youth will make your daughter start hiding what happens to her personal life in the future as she will automatically think she will be punished. You will not be there beside her all the time. Better to have sat down with her first and calmly explained to her that you understand that she has feelings for this boy and that she wants to show her affection by kissing him, but tell her there are other ways to do so (give him a gift, share lunch with him,maybe hold hands). Your daughter is at the age of raging hormones and boy curiousity. Do not be so quick to punish her. The more your daughter will do the same thing (or more) but this time, she will make sure you will not catch her this time. I know you only meant to protect your child. But punishing her the way you did will not make her think you are protecting her and will just make her antagonistic.
Wow, this is an extreme overreaction IMO and not the best way to go about fostering healthy, open communication between you and your daughter. You have really piled on the punishment for something that is totally normal for people her age (kissing her BF).
You punished your daughter for kissing a boy? What? I agree with the other posters, you just opened up a can of worms because now your daughter will start to hide stuff from you.
Wait, she calls him her boyfriend but they are not dating?
So instead of realizing your teenage daughter probably very recently had her first kiss and talking to her about it, you punished her. I mean … everyone else has already said it. That’s pretty harsh. She’s growing up, there’s nothing you can do about it. Way to make her feel like it’s not her choice how she approaches boys. What did you tell her? That it’s terrible and wrong? I shudder to think what you’ve told her about having sex.
The other posters were really nice about this with the “I respect everyone’s parenting decisions” but I have to say, if my mom had done that, I would’ve been traumatized and started hiding things from her.
I lost my virginity at 14. I’m now 38. I’ve Only ever had three partners, and have been with my husband fifteen years. Never had a pregnancy scare, never not used BC-not even once. I even went four years once without having sex, from age 18-22. Doing well professionally and financially.
Hope this opens your mind a bit. Just bc your daughter kissed a boy at 13 doesn’t mean she’s doomed, and it doesn’t even necessarily mean she doesn’t know what she’s doing, which is what you seem to be assuming.
I went to planned parenthood on my own and obtained birth control on my own-yes, at age 14-because not all kids are stupid. But they tend to act stupid when you don’t trust them and aren’t honest with them.
A month for a kiss? Good luck scaling the Grand Canyon sized chasm you’re digging between you and your daughter.
@Crumpet…my daughter is 15 and has her first “boyfriend.” My husband and I have total opposite opinions on the way to handle our daughter growing up. But after a lot of discussions, he has decided to let me “lead the way”. I recently took her to get on birth control, this was before the boyfriend and something I decided I was going to do awhile ago. Her and I have had lots of talks about sex, some of them uncomfortable for me but I just try to act unfazed. I want her to talk to me and ask questions, not her boyfriend or girlfriends who probably won’t give her the correct information. I’ve told her it’s natural to think about sex but it’s something that shouldn’t be taken lightly. When it can have life long lasting effects, i.e. a baby or herpes, it requires a lot of maturity and thought. Also the emotional part of it. Sleeping with a guy who dumps you the next day and tells all his friends. He’s the hero, she’s the slut…that type of thing. I dont think she’s ready for sex, I hope she doesn’t have sex for years to come and I hope when she does, she’s mature and is in a loving relationship with someone she trusts….but one thing I do know, she won’t ask my permission or do it when I think she’s ready. Just like I didn’t ask my mom, and my husband didn’t ask his parents. So, all I can do is talk to her, be there for her and educate her. I suggest you start having conversations with your daughter (if you haven’t) instead of punishing her for normal teenage behavior.
When you react in a huge way you teach children it’s better to lie than be caught.
Sounds like kittens parents balanced praise for honesty and consequences. With supporting narrative as to why this wasn’t good.
Crumpet, I work in child development and psychology and to echo the other responses…that’s a really f’d up way to deal with it and I feel really bad for you daughter. You are clearly not prepared to parent her properly and you’ve just instigated a horrible cycle that you’re not prepared to handle. I hope despite this, she has strong friendships and teacher models to overcome your short comings.
Um. I sort of feel like people are piling on @Crumpet here. When I read her comment I had a similar first reaction “Wow. What an overreaction to a 13 year old getting her first kiss.” But there may be more to the situation than she described.
You’re already getting piled on for pretty much every parenting action you recounted, but I want to comment on the language you’re using, calling her boyfriend her “little boyfriend.” Saying that, rather than “boyfriend,” implies that you don’t take her relationship seriously. It’s belittling. Sure, she’s 13. But you’re simultaneously trying to impress upon her that her actions in a relationship have consequences, especially sexual actions. So her relationship is serious enough to be punished for a solid month over, yet not serious enough for you to call it what it is. If there’s any sure path to frustration for your child, it’s this one, where you act in a contradictory way just to exert your parental power over her, shutting down honest communication and making her feel demeaned. 90% of the frustration of being a teen is not being taken seriously in one’s emerging capacity for consequential, adult actions. Sure, kids can be really stupid, but you get a lot further trying to be constructive with them, assuming they are intelligent and need guidance, rather than assuming they’re idiots who will always choose badly without reason.
I think a good idea for softening all that fallout about the kiss punishment could be this:
Take the opportunity to confide in your daughter that you love her and want her to be happy first and foremost…and you understand shes got feelings for someone … ask her why she likes him… act like you really care, and then get her to talk about him. Why does she like him (cause he’s nice to her? or because everyone else likes him? or because he ignores her? … heck maybe he’s a jerk to her?) Find out! Start the dialogue about why she should like him vs why she shouldn’t. Talk about how she deserves to be treated and talk about personal boundaries and respect and all that junk! Good luck 🙂
This response is to Kitten
@Kitten….WHAT!!! 14 and 19!!!!! that is a huge developmental gap. I would freak out if my 14 year old wanted to date a 19 year old. And I’m very sorry but there is something REALLY REALLY wrong with a 19 year old that actually WANTS to date a 14 year old. Grrroooosssssssssssss.
Sorry just had to say your parents were way calmer than i would be ha ha
@Stinky
A good time to have dialogue about the boyfriend would have been before dropping major punishment. I wouldn’t be surprised if the young lady didn’t want to share anything for fear of additional punishment.
@Keaton
Yes, there is a bit of piling on but I think it’s warranted in this situation. The young lady is being grounded for a month MINIMUM for growing up and doing what humans do. More, mom is being dismissive and belittling. Nothing is more certain to alienate the young lady and encourage her to keep secrets, which can lead to risky, misinformed behavior. So unless she was caught kissing all the young men, there is nothing I see to make this type of punishment justified.
Crumpet, I was 12 when I was caught kissing a boy and my parents grounded me for a month because of it. I went on to lose my virginity 2 years later to the same boy. My mom called me a slut when she found out I was on birth control at age 15. I’m worst case scenario, and this isn’t to say this is the path you’re daughter is heading down, but I went down the path of sleeping around A LOT, and then became a stripper. I obviously didn’t have a healthy upbringing, and looking back I feel like the amount of control my parents *tried* to exert over me was very, very damaging. I learned to be sneaky and lied so much to them. My parenting style will hopefully allow my children to have trust enough in me to confide everything they’re going through, without feeling they’ll be shamed. You might want to reconsider the way you’ve handled this. It’s not too late to open the lines of communication with your daughter.
I am not trying to pile on but the more real life accounts you have of how detrimental this type of parenting can be the better.
My parents, like many here, were very strict on me growing up (they actually still are and I still hide things from them). As a result I hid everything from them. In addition my mother never taught me to respect myself and love myself because she always taught me that any and all sex was wrong. Kissing, touching, intercourse, etc. I ended up losing my virginity at 15 to a 21 year old. I became an escort at 18 and had a child at 20.. I have zero confidence as I was never allowed to make my own decisions and fail in a safe place. Instead I’m 34 and live with my parents still. If only they’d realized letting me live and make mistakes young would have prevented me from being an adult who is still mentally an adolescent. In addition to hiding sexual behavior and thoughts from them I also started taking drugs when I was at friend’s houses as an escape from my life. It is better to be open and make your kid feel safe talking to you. You are the main person in their life from birth and should be able to provide that. I keep dialogue open for my son. I am hoping his future holds better things than mine did as a result.
Good luck to you with your daughter. I hope you take our words to heart.
You can come back from this Crumpet. It’s NEVER too late. I cannot recommend family therapy enough. Mine are 25 and 22 and if ONLY I had it to do over again with earlier professional guidance, we would have all benefited immensely. It’s my major parenting regret. Ask around, doctors, friends, etc.
@Crumpet – you might want to rethink the way you approached this issue with your daughter, just saying.
I’m not a parent, but I remember very vividly what it was like to be 13 and have my mother lose it over me interacting with boys my age, and let’s just say my response wasn’t to do what my mother said, it was simply to hide everything from her (and this wasn’t just boy stuff – I simply became very reluctant to tell my parents anything at all about my life beyond my grades in school and what was for dinner).
A 13-year-old kissing a boy whom you admit is age-appropriate, does not sound like a thing that warrants grounding, not in this century. A conversation, sure. But cutting off all tech access and basically child locking her phone? I’m sorry to say it but you overreacted – that really wasn’t an appropriate punishment, if adolescents can be said to deserve to be ‘punished’ for kissing.
@Pinetree- (hope you see this in this crazy thread haha)
Don’t be sorry because YES it was really f*cked up. He was a very, VERY damaged person in a million different ways. Probably not the kind of guy you would want your young daughter to date. But he had been friends with my older brother (who stopped talking to me during this whole thing) and had been to the house before. My parents knew about his terrible childhood and honestly, I think they just felt really bad for him. He wasn’t mean or violent or controlling or cruel, just very damaged.
Anyway I knew I was too young and emotionally immature to have sex with him during the 6 months we dated but I would have eventually….but then he cheated on me so that (handily) made the decision for me and I ended things before I got in over my head.
But you’re absolutely right with what you said (and my parents DID freak the f*ck out, believe me).
@Keaton-I kind of feel bad for Crumpet too. I’m somewhat surprised at how harsh all the reactions here are but I’m not a parent so maybe I should just stay out of it. It really is the hardest job in the world, being a parent.
the movie ‘Carrie’ comes to mind …
Don’t be that mom!!!
Perhaps ‘Crumpet’ got treated that way herself by very protective parents? .. or maybe NEVER rec’d any oversight, and just overcompensated (?)
~signed, proud & happy non-parent…
I KNOW it aint easy!
The piling on is warranted, and crumpet could have chosen to share more information (if there’s more, which I highly doubt but wouldn’t be surprised if there was an additional comment by her adding details later) but didn’t. Parenting is an incredibly difficult job, you’re tasked with raising a real human being who interacts with other people and will likely have children of their own, hence the knee jerk reaction when you hear something like this.
To add, my parents (and the parents of others who grew up in the tight Christian community) were also incredibly strict and I in turn just learned to lie to them. I became sexually promiscuous, as did many other kids, and got addicted to drugs, as did many other kids. Other friends of mine still suffer, while I’ve been in recovery (and a whole lot of therapy) to help counteract the absolute shit parenting I received. I’m a well functioning adult, however how many others do we see that aren’t? It’s not too late to change the parenting ways, authoritarian style doesn’t help anyone.
@Kawaii
I was also raised in a southern, ultra-evangelical community. I turned out okay (no promiscuity, no pregnancy scares, now married) but my parents and I barely communicate—about ANYTHING. For me, feeling like I was constantly being judged and punished for wanting to kiss or go on a date bled over into all the other parts of my life and now we don’t do much more than make small talk. I don’t have kids, but in my experience, the best you can do is educate them and guide them to make safe, informed choices.
Hey @crumpet. You and only you know the real situation here. I am astounded that people feel they have the right to tell you how to parent. I will not judge as I do not know the whole story. Bet you adore your girl and want to protect her like a lioness!
@applepie I and most others here are not being cruel. Personally when I read her comment it it reminded me so much of why I lied to my parents growing up. I still have to lie to my parents as an adult. I am 34 and my mother won’t watch my son for me to go on a solo date with a man and heaven forbid she not hear from me for over 30 minutes on a date. That might mean I am having sex. Funny note: on one date when I was 30 I left my phone in my purse. My mother couldn’t get me for over 45 minutes. Want to know what she did? She called my best friend and my best friend’s mother at 11 at night waking them up to help track me down. Anyway, the reason I said something is to hopefully help her see another side to her reaction to her daughter.
Yes because all of you are model parents. Sage advice. My parents never let me and my siblings date until 18 and you know what we didn’t do? Date. That easy. Enrolled us in activities, actually spent time with us. Magic. Really. Also slut shaming? Ffs, letting children sleep with other children is smart, not slut shaming. Jesus.
@ Zeddy, this is the quote most of us are reacting to
“Parental modeling is SO important. I caught my just turned 13 year old daughter kissing her little boyfriend, after I had explicitly talked to her about what was acceptable behaviour when you are NOT DATING.”
So she is punishing her daughter for a kiss. Not for sneaking out like Kitten was, not for breaking rules or curfew. For a kiss.
That’s what a lot of us are concerned about. That this daughter doesn’t end up like us, taught by punishment that our sexual interest are wrong and shameful.
I was taught by actions like this that sex wasn’t for women to enjoy. It was something gross men wanted from women, and women shouldn’t give them. So yes, when we see our childhood traumas outlined as GOOD PARENTING, some of us get a little concerned and upset.
I’m surprised there was this much of a pile on, and yes, parenting is hard. Especially since you don’t often realise your mistakes until far to late.
Hopefully this is a wake-up call to those who use this type of strategy.
Zeddy, I don’t think anyone is claiming to be a model parent. It’s tough.
Just curious…why wouldn’t your parents want you to date until you were 18? Were you allowed to go to prom, homecoming, whatever?
@minx. It’s the tone. Definitely coming off that way. Because i was a child, and yes, under 18 is still child age (not actually sure why it’s suddenly okay when 18 developmentally speaking, but that’s legal emancipation age so oh well!). I know that in our culture we’re supposed to be super open and blase all the time about everything, but I honestly think it’s weird and pen-ultimately allows for the abuse that’s going on in this article to occur and be normalised. Now I’m not saying that @comet is by any means a shit mom for allowing her daughter to date, but I really respect that fact that she is treating like a child’s thing (little boyfriend) and not some grown up and mature relationship that a lot here seem to be implying.
I was punished similarly as Crumpet punished her daughter, at age 16. My parents had a black and white attitude about sexual activity, nothing before marriage. So I waited to date until age 20.
i then stayed in a bad relationship, because I had no one to turn to and ask questions about what was normal, emotions wise or sexually. My parents were clearly not safe, they had shown me that as a teenager they couldn’t conceive of my having a sexuality. I couldn’t talk to my sis, because what if she told my parents, and she was also embarrassed by sex talk. My friends were just as clueless as I was.
And since I didn’t know what was normal in relationships, I experienced abuse.
I wish I had been able to receive sex positivity and make mistakes with guidance from my parents. i wish I had been able to learn and to understand women have agency, desire, and the right to enthusiastic consent. I wish I had understood what it meant to be treated well, or how much your world opens up when you stop viewing sex as shameful, or something men pursue from women, or something for marriage only.
I feel like I raised myself because my parents’ fear of pregnancy and their morals were more important to them than helping me become an independent, self actualized person who felt safe and healthy exploring in my intimate relationships
@Crumpet At what age would it be acceptable to have a boyfriend, kiss? When do you understand who is safe, emotionally, sexually? Something to consider.
You grounded your teenager for kissing someone consensually?!? Why and what possible relevance does a couple of teenagers kissing have to an adult in a position of trust raping a child?
I had a mom just like you, Crumpet. Guess what I am today? A stripper.
So basically what you are all saying is that you all had similar experiences and all turned out OK. ……
@applepie, no, I would not say I turned out ok. Only my friends know because I present normal but being ashamed of your normal sexual desires really f*cked me up.
It led to my domestic abuse, and others I know in similar situations (ie sexually judgmental parents) were abused or raped but could not talk about it to their dads or moms for fear of Judgment because of victim blaming. (Not saying this would be the case with Crumpet, but surely you see how easily it could be the case)
it is serious when you get punished for a normal teen thing, for developing. You need guidance, not to be holding secrets about this stuff. It is SO crucial to healthy relationships.
Many others here wrote they are estranged from their moms like me – and that is a heavy burden. it seems like a choice but it is really sad, and a matter of survival. They don’t let you be a person.
Finally, Being a stripper is NOT an easy life!
Go back and read the thread – it is a serious thing to get the message sexuality is not ok.
Good by to bad rubbish. I bet he left her years ago but she refused to acknowledge it. What a dispictable woman.
Gross, gross, gross.
I feel sorry for him and all her kids. Everyone that kid should have been able to count on failed him and left him prey to this woman, and worse I lost count of how many people (usually men) acted like he was lucky, like he’d gotten to fulfill some kind of fantasy instead of being a 12 year old CHILD that had been taken advantage of by a mentally ill sexual predator.
I’m still disgusted by the language used when discussing this. They didn’t begin a sexual relationship, SHE RAPED HIM. The BBC has the only acceptable headline about this mess: “US Husband splits from wife who raped him as a boy.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40103601
Calling her a “young, damaged woman” made me roll my eyes. She’s not damaged, she’s a rapist.
EXACTLY
^This.
Crumpet I’m not going to say you effed up. You reacted to her breaking the rules you laid down. We had the same rules for my daughter but in 8th grade we found out she had a boyfriend. My husband was ready to ground her for life. She tugged at my heart by declaring her love. And we softened. We also realized there was no way we could keep them apart, they were in school all day. I dropped her off and my husband picked her up. They had recess and lunch together. I told her that she had to bring him home for dinner. I met his family. He turned out to be sweet and respectful. He was at our house all the time, I even took them grocery shopping. She broke up with him a month later. But she did thank me for giving her space to discover she had been romanticizing the idea of a boyfriend. She went on to date throughout high school and what I like is that she is invested in herself more than her dates. She also tells me everything. Her and her first boyfriend are both now attending the same college and are friends. There is still time to create a mutually respectful relationship with your daughter. One that will help her grow closer to you and look to you for guidance.
YES COMPLETELY AGREE THIS IS RAPE and it needs to be called as such!!!!!!!!
i agree.
i had a 9th grade sports coach, who was also an early 30’s high school teacher who was going through a messy divorce. he was a teacher, girls softball, tennis and basketball coach, student council adviser and senior class adviser. he would come to practice and give us, 14-15 year old girls, a sob story about his ex and his life etc. i always felt really uncomfortable but some girls got wrapped up in it. so throughout high school he was still in contact with all of us through various sports/clubs and was very close with the most sympathetic girls. he always commented to girls on the team when we’d have boyfriends with his opinions on our behavior and warnings and threats about us not playing if we got ourselves into trouble etc. all very weird and unsolicited. i now know this was grooming behavior. by 10th grade he found his girl and they started a heavily emotional relationship. she never dated in high school and didn’t even have dates to dances. he let her drive his car and sent her flowers she had her wisdom teeth removed. she was the president of all his clubs and switched sports to play on the teams he coached. they spent a ton of time after school together and rumors kind of flew and i even walked in on her in a classroom sitting so close to him it was apparent they were hugging or kissing moments before. he softly threatened me the next day and i told my parents. i know they went to someone at the school but told me to stay away from him and made me quit student council. i know others who had similar experiences as well.
well they went on their first “date” two days after graduation, engaged a year later and married before she graduated college. she had kids right away and she is now a teacher at our high school and he has been promoted to principal. the person who was the principal at the time and other administrators attended their wedding which is appalling. it wasn’t a romantic thing or even a thing where a teacher and student met 5 years after graduation and got together after both were adults. he picked her out in the 8th grade, groomed her through high school and she basically give up her childhood and youth for him. it was predatory and i HATE when people act like it is nice that our dorky divorced teacher found his soulmate.
That is a lot of ew. I would not have my kids go to that school. IF it happens once it can happen again.
@ Lizzie
That’s so horrible and I wish I could say I was shocked that people tried to sanitize his crimes, but I’m not. He didn’t FIND his soulmate, he CREATED one out of a child. *shudder*
“He didn’t FIND his soulmate, he CREATED one out of a child.”
@Cleo, I’ve been trying to find the right words and you’ve just nailed it.
Thank you. There are still people who talk about Vili as if he wasn’t raped by a pedophile.
Ash I don’t agree that she is a pedo, simply because she apparently is still in a romantic relationship with villi as an adult. also hasn’t molested any other kids that we know of. Pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. Some sex predators who rape children aren’t pedophiles. It’s one of my fears (that my kids be abused) so I always read about it when it’s in the news 😖. Anyways I know it’s just semantics. And I don’t have a good explanation for what she is but she doesn’t seem like a pedo (based on her actions that we know of).
Maybe they were raised in one of those backwards country, that think that understate sex and child marriage is OK, you know, like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen or USA?
Read the nyt’article, could not believe it, went further and am simply sick.
That’s the why/how of everything letourneau.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/opinion/sunday/it-was-forced-on-me-child-marriage-in-the-us.html?_r=0
Frightening case, but at least he’s finally out of it. I wonder if he stayed only until the kids are old enough to be independent.
A woman in her mid-thirties who’s raping a child is not a “young woman” imo. She might be damaged, but I have a hard time feeling sympathy for someone who rapes children instead of dealing with his or her own problems.
She’s a predator.
100% agree.
Not too mention she had four children of her own when this happened which just makes it grosser to me. Her poor kids.
exactly.
SO much trauma foisted onto her existing family – OMG.
It started way before he was 12. She was his 2nd grade teacher. She groomed this kid was obsessed with him and followed him to 6th grade. Think about that: 6th grade is when she started abusing him and he’s just now getting away.
I feel sorry for him. He’s been a victim since he was 12 years old and never had a childhood.
That is seriously scary, the fact that she targeted him at all, let alone at that age and then followed him. She’s the worst kind of predator, parents send their kids to school to learn , not to become the victims of sick predators. I hope he’s able to find his way and have a somewhat normal life after this horror.
Ho-leeeeeee crap. I had forgotten about that part, their first meeting being when he was 7.
this woman is nothing more than a predator.
Oh my god, I have a 7-year-old little boy. This is the last week of 2nd grade for him. I cannot *imagine* a teacher targeting and preying on him at that age. It’s a hideous thought. My son is missing his two front teeth, is still halfway convinced that dragons are real, still sleeps with his stuffed lamb from when he was a baby (but doesn’t want his friends to know), and is a rough and tumble tree climber who still wants the occasional snuggle when he’s scraped his knee. The idea that that woman picked that little boy out at that age to groom him is beyond awful. I hope the separation isn’t just for show and that he is able to get away from her. I feel terrible for their two children.
I didn’t know that. THATS EVEN MORE DISGUSTING
me NEITHER! (and I remember it all pretty well)
All these years and didn’t know that, holy gross. Awful. She should be locked up for life honestly or given a sentence where she is treated like an actual sex criminal.
A 12 year old doesn’t have permission to give to have a sexual relationship with an older , person of authority . I’m looking at this like a mother of a 14 year old boy. She is a sexual pervert who took advantage of a child .
If the gender roles were reversed you wouldn’t say, “young damaged man”.
She is a rapist/abuser/sexual predator.
He is the ‘young damaged’ one in this situation.
I wish him healing and good for him for getting away from this monster.
One of those instances where the “if the genders were reversed” analogy actually works perfectly. It’s heartening to read these posts and see her actions universally decried as rape and abuse as opposed to some tragic love bullshit.
Her father was crazy too. John G. Schmitz was a Republican congressman (a John Bircher fan) from Orange County, CA. He had 2 children with a mistress, all of whom he refused to support. When their mother died, the Schmitz family did nothing and the children ended up in an orphanage. There are more horrifying details that you can google. At least they were lucky they weren’t taken in by their half-sister Mary Kay.
omg
I wish there was a way she could be sued and thrown back into jail.
And I hope he can find a way to start again, he’s still very young, with some support, he can finally live a normal and fulfilling life.
Hold up. If she is a registered sex offender, how was she able to keep the two kids with Vili. If you cannot live within a radius of a school and a ton of other rules, how was custody okay.
I don’t think it’s illegal for a registered sex offender to live with their biological children but I’m sure the state is quick to get involved and remove the children if there’s an incident where someone calls the police/authorities. Also, I’m sure Vili always had primary custody.
Convicted Canadian killer Karla Homolka was busted yesterday volunteering at her children’s elementary school in Quebec. Her and her husband raped, tortured and murdered 3 young girls, including Karla’s younger sister. I’d have my child out of that school so fast. I wouldn’t even bother informing the school.
It’s a private school- so if I were a parent there I’d take my kids out immediately to protest the administrations choice. I hope all the parents do that. Parents who have been “critical” about the killer in the school aren’t welcomed back next year. If this were a public school I’d be horrified for the parents predicament.
So Mary Kay basically screwed up the lives of seven children. The four children she had with her first husband, had their family torn apart by what Mary Kay did. The two children she had with Vili, who have the entire world know the truth about their parent’s relationship. Finally Vili, he is now an adult but he had his childhood stolen by this predator and having to become a father at such a young age.
The most fitting punishment for someone like Mary Kay is to spend the rest of her days alone. Shunned by her family and society. She is disgusting
I’m questioning whether she should have custody of any children. It’s a mess for all those children.
Who will be her next conquest (assuming she will give up on Vili)?
I was pleased to read that the original four children were raised by their father and are doing well. The two daughters of this current situation are positively beautiful and I hope can blossom regardless of the mother’s actions.
You notice though in all interviews she is really off, totally mentally ill. No excuses but when she speaks you know she is a box of rocks. The poor kids too!
She already had four children before targeting a child.
Hopefully he can move on and break free. I always assumed she would not leave him alone.
Unfortunately, I’ve read this might only be a technicality. He wants to get into the legal cannibas business but family members must pass a stringent background check. So they can’t be legally married for him to do this, due to her criminal record, but might actually be staying together. Still hope this is all a ruse and he does want to get out!
aww no. I hope this isn’t true.
Yes, I just read this as well. Vili is trying to skirt a background check and apparently said he still loves MKL and will continue having a relationship with her.
This makes sense to me. I’d be shocked if he totally breaks free of her at this point. I can’t even imagine how difficult it would be to cut ties with someone who has been that significant a part of your life since you were seven years old. He’s never had a real chance at developing normal relationships. It’s all very sick and sad.
yes there is something damaged about all rapists. and murderers. and…
still the sympathy MUST GO TO THE VICTIMS.
he was a victim. she ruined his life and he is still paying the price. we witnessed and are witnessing some of his pain and suffering from the abuse at her hand.
she wasn’t young. young would be 18 and still wrong.
she was educated and worse, a parent. she knew better, went ahead with the abuse, was caught and reprimanded- explicitly told it was wrong, then carried on with the abuse of a still then minor.
her damage is her selfishness and not deserving of sympathy.
she’s had plenty of time to learn and show remorse so she should not be coddled.
he was the victim.
I totally agree with everything you said
She is a sick twist. She left her husband and children to be with her 12 year old love. I recall his mother being supportive of her. I’m rather shocked they stayed together this long. Stockholm Syndrome. He was her hostage since he was a boy. Mind boggling. Can’t imagine what direction her life will go, I see a stalker in the making. Hopefully he can get counseled and have a life of his own away from this mad woman.
Good for Vili. She is a predator, she groomed and manipulated him for years. I hope he gets therapy and can heal from the years of being abused.
It is disgusting. What does a 12 year old boy know about birth control? For her to get pregnant to “trap” him? I recall an interview a few years ago, she seemed so clingy and he seemed so over it. He admitted that it was a big mistake and had he had a choice he would have done things differently. It was so telling. The kids didn’t look too happy. Imagine having to father kids at 13 and forcing to get married because of that. Poor guy. Imagine having to go to parent-teacher conference for the kids and getting dirty looks. Raising kids being a child himself. He must have planned to leave but I imagine her holding on throwing guilt about the kids on him, I can’t even imagine! He admitted so openly that he wishes he had done things differently and didn’t have to father the kids so young. Where are his parents? So devastating that this woman ruined so many lives for her selfishness. Ugh! After that interview I felt bad for him and could not stand her constant grinning and clinging, holding onto him and showing that she was “sexy” enough. Ugh.
I’m glad he’s getting away from his rapist. I sincerely hope he and their children will be getting intensive therapy to work through this and not repeat patterns generationally.
It was a long disgusting affair and he had developed severe emotional issues. Good for him and I hope he can finally get the help he needs to begin to heal and live life for himself and his family.
Thank YOU for using proper language, as an abuse survivor it really bothers me when news outlets say things like “began their relationship”. No, it was abuse plain and simple and he was statutory raped. They were not “in love”; he was stockholmed into an infatuation.
She’s a looney. Didn’t she once threaten to kill herself if he ever left her.
I hope he can now live the life he wants to live. She won’t take him getting a new partner well when that happens.
The media always played this like a reality show. The interviews, the lurid fascination with Mary Kay in the tabloids. It was sick. I think she should never have been given free press for this crime. It just egged her on.
Yes, this is spot on. There was always something so unseemly about the coverage, almost titillating in its tone. It was so gross and I agree that the attention somehow egged her on.
This woman is a wackadoodle. You can just see in her eyes that she is not all there. I hope this young man can reclaim some of his life.
This story remains all kinds of gross. *dry heaves*
That said, I’d read that they’re only divorcing so he can sell weed (her criminal record would make it impossible for him to do if they’re married). I forget what site it was … may have been DListed…
Thanks for using the right tag for this one, Kaiser – it’s a crime. And a crime that’s been continuing for twenty years. I really hope the separation/divorce filing is for real and not just weed.
+1
They are “legally” separating but they are not breaking up.
My son is 12 years old and when I think of him and his friends… they’re little boys! She’s a monster.
I wonder how he views this “relationship” with adult eyes and as a father? Is he so damaged by her that he regards her behavior as normal???
As others have noted, the double standard in regards to gender is stunning.
Right? ANd shockingly his oldest would be 20 now!!!! Since he had them so young.
TMZ is reporting that shes gonna file to dismiss his divorce petition. She truly is a monster. I smell bs surrounding his claim about the weed. somethings off.
Thanks for the update Lady Cali!
Also @kitten I did read your response so thanks for replying! (Not sure you’ll see this down here but didn’t want to add to that over grown stream of comments)
🙂
So are they really breaking up or is this just a ploy so Vili can get his marijuana license? They did an interview a few years ago and Vili opened up, saying how he was basically robbed of his childhood when he became a father at the age of 14. Mary Kay ended up in jail for 7 years, during which Vili’s mother and I’m assuming Vili took care of the two daughters they both conceived. I wonder how they approached this story with their daughters? It’s clear he wasn’t super jazzed with the way his life turned out and I just feel sorry for him.
I’m so surprised nobody has brought up Emmanuel Macron and his wife Brigitte! Biggest difference with them is that they never had kids which I think allowed Emmanuel to have a somewhat normal childhood and not saddled with such responsibility at a young age and got to enjoy his youth.
I’ve read that the French have different views on sexual maturity and accordingly legislation is different. Apparently Macron was 15, the legal age of consent in France. Though the situation with the women’s families was similar, legally the situation was quite different.
I might be wrong, but I think there are a few exceptions to that rule (age of consent being 15), one of them being teacher-student relationships.
The official story is that is started when he was 18.
I agree. It’s amusing that people have different standards for different people. All of these under-18 relationships with a grown adult are suspect, even if all these children grow up to marry their abusers and have happy marriages with them. I say the same thing about Celine Dion. We all know how much she loved her husband and they had a happy and successful marriage, but what if Celine had never become a superstar? What if Macron had not become president? Perhaps people would then view their relationship in a different light, much like we view Letourneau and Fualaau.
Well what this article doesn’t talk about and what I read online in another article (can’t for the life of me remember where but it popped up on my Facebook feed) was that he’s “divorcing” her because he wants to open a pot cigarette business and they do strict vetting for these owners. So because of her criminal record, they may deny that application. That’s the only reason why. He’s not leaving her. They are just going to have a common law marriage.
I also don’t condone what happened. But let’s call it what it is. He’s not really leaving her.
They’re not even divorcing, it’s just a legal separation which means they will still be legally married. I’m not sure how that’s going to make any difference for the background checks, etc. for his marijuana cigarette business.
She raped him. End of. Happy he’s now getting away but I’m sure the damage has already been done.
I loathe anything that refers to this situation as an “affair.” She’s a pedophile who repeatedly raped a child, went to jail, and returned only to have said child’s grandmother insist this poor boy (who desperately needed counseling and family support to GET AWAY FROM HIS RAPIST) marry this predator.
Unfortunately, it seems to happen far to much
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/opinion/sunday/it-was-forced-on-me-child-marriage-in-the-us.html?_r=0
She always appeared to be mentally ill to me. Just my opinion. I wonder how her four kids from her first marriage are. Adult children now – but all of this was occurring while they were young and she was married to their father. Based on what I know, I wouldn’t want her in my life.
She apparently had contact with some of the kids from her first marriage. She had two girls & two boys with Steve Letourneau and two girls with Vili
She’s a grandma by one of her sons.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/photos-mary-kay-letourneau-vili-fualaau-gallery-1.2179765
First year of uni I had a professor talking and looking at me strange. I was not used ti that kind of behaviour because of my upbringing and to me he just seemed funny BUT we had some older guys at our class and they didn’t like it. I remember one of my friends following me everywhere and the professor getting mad at him. It took me a while to realise what was going on. After some years he tried do kiss another friend of mine in his office telling her not to run away because he would be sweet to her. She pushed him away. We learned that he had a habit to chase young girls, first years being his favorites and he use to go through then like a knife through butter. That’s how he got married. His wife had a big family and they basically made him marry her after he had sex with her in the classrooms and being caught several times by people. The story goes that he liked being caught. He wanted to be known for his conquests. And he is still working there and has held high positions. We called him The Maniac. There was no mistaking what he was. No hero, no lover, no romantic tale
That’s disgusting that he is still working there
Apparently her little brother drown in the pool “on her watch” when the parents left them at home alone. She was like 11 or something. Vili seems normal; she’s not. He’s talked about coming from a disadvantage background and not having the right role models to protect him. Very sad, but he’s still young and can easily start on a new, more fulfilling life away from this crazy person/paedophile/rapist.
Yeah; I have a friend who field for legal separation from her husband last year for tax reasons. Probably the only reason they even announced it was for publicity.
The most disturbing thing is the men who see these cases and say this wished they had a hot teacher when they were their age! I can’t tell you how often I have heard that, especially from my own father. 🙁
THIS! I once read something about them on Facebook and the comment section was full of men saying they wouldn’t mind! It was really disgusting. I have a 13 yr old boy and yes, he would definitely mind. I often wondered if that is a sick form of bragging or if they just misremember being 12 and are thinking of themselves at 16/17.
She is a vile and disgusting woman. I bet he’s only doing doing it for the weed licence though. As she’s been the one constant person in his life.