I hadn’t been following the Mark Salling case following his 2015 arrest. In December 2015, he was arrested on multiple counts of possessing child pornography. He tried to claim that it was all a misunderstanding, but the LAPD believed otherwise. Salling ended up pleading guilty to some of the charges last year, and he was awaiting sentencing. This week, as he was contemplating serious jail time, Salling committed suicide by hanging himself by the Los Angeles River.
Mark Salling has died in an apparent suicide weeks before being sentenced to prison for possession of child pornography. He was 35.
“I can confirm that Mark Salling passed away early this morning. Mark was a gentle and loving person, a person of great creativity, who was doing his best to atone for some serious mistakes and errors of judgment,” his attorney Michael Proctor tells PEOPLE. “He is survived by his mother and father, and his brother. The Salling family appreciates the support they have been receiving and asks for their privacy to be respected.”
“He was found hanging from a tree in the area of the Los Angeles River in Sunland,” Coroner Assistant Chief Ed Winter tells PEOPLE. Salling was pronounced dead at the scene at 9 a.m. Tuesday and his body is at the coroner’s office. According to Winter, his relatives have been notified of the death and an autopsy is scheduled for the next few days.
An LAPD PIO told PEOPLE that officers responded to a death investigation at the 11900 block of Big Tujunga Cyn Road Tuesday morning at 8:50 a.m. but could not identify Salling. The Glee star pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography involving a prepubescent minor Oct. 4, 2017. After striking a plea deal in December, he was due to be sentenced in March and expected to serve four to seven years in prison.
“Mark is focused on accepting responsibility and attempting to atone for his conduct,” Proctor said in a statement to PEOPLE at the time.
Federal investigators say they found more than 25,000 images and 600 videos depicting child pornography on computers and thumb drives that belonged to Salling. The content depicted children as young as 3 years old being abused, according to court documents. Salling had to register as a sex offender and enter a treatment program; have no verbal or electronic contact with anyone under the age of 18; stay 100 feet away from schools, parks, public swimming pools, youth centers, playgrounds and arcades; and pay $50,000 in restitution to each victim, according to the documents.
Just after he struck the plea deal last October, Salling apparently attempted suicide by trying to cut his wrists. This was seen for what it was: a cry for help, only it doesn’t seem like many people wanted to help him at this point. Salling’s former Glee coworkers issued statements too – go here to read. They were trying to balance the fact that their coworker and one-time friend had killed himself with the fact that Salling was a very troubled and disturbed guy.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
This whole story is disturbing all the way around.
And not only his heinous crimes, but he committed suicide in a public place. How traumatizing for the people passing by, some of which could be children. AGAIN, inflicting pain.
He committed suicide in a area adjoining a little league field. Where kids could see him if the cops hadn’t got there first.
Even in death he’s trying to hurt kids. I have zero sympathy for him-I wish he had gone to jail.
Yah, no sympathy at all for that POS. He was part of the chain of victimizing babies and children – 25,000 images and 600 videos = 30,100 victims or instances of abuse. Some as young as THREE. What a s!ck f^ck.
That’s what I thought too. Why do this in a public area where anyone could come along and find the body and be so traumatised by it? That in itself was so selfish. And killing himself to avoid a jail sentence that could have seen him out in three years? I find it difficult to sympathise even with a former victim like him. There was no courage in his suicide, only defeat.
Apparently, Mark had been abused as a child while growing up in a strict religious environment. Obviously, this does not remotely excuse his heinous crimes, but it is food for thought on how the problem multiplies. Although not all victims repeat the cycle, a large portion of perpetrators were abused themselves as as children.
That’s sad.
Ironic how so many are feeling compassion for his family if that’s true.
Wow, did not know that. Thank you for sharing. As you said, it doesn’t excuse his crimes, but it may help us to understand him (and perhaps other pedophiles) a bit more.
(I admit I feel a little repulsed typing that, but if understanding the cause could help prevent other children from being abused and/or molested…)
One in eight go on to cause more damage apparently.
I feel bad, and I feel bad FOR feeling bad.
At the end of the day, I feel most for the victims whose photos and videos he was in possession of, and for his family, who lost their son and brother for the second time.
This is exactly how I was feeling yesterday when the news came out. He was a very sick man and my thoughts are with the victims and with Mark’s family. This whole thing is sad and disturbing.
MellyMell I feel exactly the same way. His poor family and the poor victims. This was a very, very sick man.
That’s very kindly put, Daisyfly.
This is exactly how I feel. Thank you for putting it into words.
exactly how I feel, I was dreading reading the comments on this, cause its all just so sad 🙁
Child pornography is sick all around I don’t understand how anyone can participate. And yes anyone who does should get find or jail time register as a sex offender and stay away from children. But what I don’t understand is when family members molest a child they get less time because its family. Men who have molested children, young adults etc have gotten less time with committing the terrible than possession of child pornography. I don’t get it. Plus I don’t know Mark but it seems as if he was dealing with a lot of demons and may have felt the only way to concur them was to take his own life. Its sad sad for everyone involved the children, him and his family
@Maley31 just to add that when someone posses child pornography I think other laws are involved than molesting a child etc. I think is possession, distribution, intent to distribute and more laws so more time in jail and while abusing a child is BAD in the end it’s “just” one crime. As for this guy, death is terrible but I can’t bring myself to feel sorry for him. Effectively his life was over. It was something he wouldn’t be able to shake off and start fresh anywhere. He was as good as dead. Sure I feel sorry for his victims and family. It’s true that the ones that remain alive have to pay the biggest price.
Marley31, possessing child pornography means that you have engaged in the exploitation, rape and probably kidnap of multiple children. Most of these scumbags actually pay for children to be raped too for their viewing “pleasure”, hence they are also directly responsible for child prostitution. It annoys me when people claim that they “haven’t hurt anybody” when they collect such heinous material (I know you didn’t say that, this is a rant) and the courts go soft on them. The untold damage caused is just horrendous. Check the Preda Foundation http://www.preda.org/ for a wonderful organisation that helps children in the Philippines where a lot of these people hunt for victims.
Poor family. Can’t say I feel sorry for the guy but suicide is never easy to cope with for a family.
I don’t feel bad at all for him, where was his sympathy when he downloaded 50000+ images of child pornography? He was a pedophile and an abuser, I don’t think he “lost the battle with depression”, I think he didn’t want to face punishment for his awful crimes.
I’m grossed out by how the Glee cast is reacting, even though they say they aren’t trying to minimize what he did, their sickening tributes to him are doing just that.
It doesn’t matter if he was sometimes nice to a cast members kids or friendly, at the end of the day he was a predator and assaulted his ex-girlfriend, he wasn’t a good person.
Took the words out of my mouth…. 1 image is bad enough but 50k, not thanks… no sympathies for him.
yep. the only thing he did right was save CA the cost of his housing and food in prison.
He was a coward – he didn’t want to face prison – we all know what happens to pedophiles in prison.
As for losing the “battle with depression” – again, so sympathy – being depressed and disgusted by himself was actually the correct response for a pedophile who derived sexual pleasure from watching 3 year olds get raped.
I hope my comment wasn’t nice to him? I was trying to say I feel sorry for the family because I know how suicide affects a family. But he is an awful person and what he did is unexcusable. I feel sorry for the victims most even if I forgot to mention it in my first comment!
Nope…people like this who purchase and distribute make a market for abuse and keep the abuse happening over and over. No just no. I am sick
Yea, “gentle and loving person” that has 25.000 photos and 600 videos of child porn on his comps. I’m gonna be mean and say his death is no real loss.
I feel bad for the family, tho. First, it turns out he’s a pedophile and now he died young.
It was actually 50,000 photos =(
Ugh.
Also, question if anyone knows: He was supposed to pay 50.000 to each victim. That sounds so odd because he allegedly didn’t do any of the direct molesting himself + the volume of material he possessed.
I thought he bought photos and videos from some shady darknet site and the children were from all over the place, but this sounds like the investigators were able to identify the victims. Did he actually order any material himself? Or is that standard procedure?
On a sidenote: 50 k isn’t enough.
@Nanny to the Rescue – the money he was supposed to pay to the victims is mandatory restitution required by federal law. Anyone who purchases, disseminates, shares, downloads, or otherwise possesses a child porn image may be ordered to pay the victim, not just the person who took the photo in the first place.
The troubling part for me is that he died before he was sentenced. IIRC his criminal case must now be dismissed even though he already pled guilty. I doubt his victims will get a penny of the money he promised to pay.
Everytime a person views child porn, that poerson is complicit. why? Because it’s established fact that viewers*more material. By viewing the pron, you’re practically ordering further abuse or new victims.
That said, I don’t feel bad at all. except for the victims.
I mean, we are all aware of the recidivist rate with pedophiles. The chances that, after his prison snetenmce, he would not stop-in some way, is enough for me.
BearcatLawyer – Thanks, that answers my question.
geekychick – Yea, I know why a person is complicit, I just didn’t know there’s a specific law that handles it in this way. It’s interesting (and right).
And children as young as 3 years old on those photos and video. THAT breaks my heart and makes me wanna cry, this guy’s death is not a big loss for the world.
Yeah that really made me sick to my stomach.
I can’t read anymore of the comments. The children in the images….I want to hunt down the devil who creates this crap to be sold. I’m sick to my stomach. Unspeakable things I would do to the people hurting the children.
HeyThere! if you really want to help, have a look at the Preda Foundation, they do great work.
He was proud enough to share with at least two adult women, which is how he got caught.
I have no sympathy for this trash. He had the resources to seek help, and he did not.
That’s because people who are sick, mentally usually don’t think their sick.
Naya Rivera was with him for three years and said recently (well over a year ago) she is not surprised about the child porn. She said he had a dark soul.
Sometimes people only show you what they want you to see.
Wait, he shared it with two adult women? Did they report him immediately? If not, can they be held as accomplices?
Nanny, yes, they told the police, that is how he was caught.
V4Real, yes, he was abusive to Naya I think if I remember, so her read is probably very correct. From what I’ve seen, and I am not even close to an expert, most pedophiles know it’s wrong. Ephebophiles, they justify that left and right, but pedophiles, they usually understand society thinks they are bad people, if you look at the comments you can see how very taboo it is.
I don’t think others are responsible for knowing his inner choices, people like this are very good at hiding. He was ultimately responsible for fixing himself, and he chose not to.
deets: What, both of them at the same time?
Something doesn’t add up.
If he showed his material to one girl and she reported him, how come he got the chance to show it to the other? Did the police ignore the first girls’ report? Or did the first girl wait until the 2nd reported him?
Agree – no loss.
yeah, that “gentle and loving person” and “errors of judgement” made me want to barf.
I’m sorry for the family, having to deal with the fact that their son was a pedophile and that he killed himself, but I don’t have sympathy for him. I’ll save it for his victims.
THIS. I feel much sympathy for his loved ones and whoever had to find him (a huge nightmare of mine), but I do I feel bad that there’s one less pedofile walking around? NOPE.
FORTUNATELY the police discovered him before anyone else did (according to reports). Not that it’s any less traumatic for a police officer, but I can’t imagine the trauma that could’ve been done if the body was found by children instead.
“According to TMZ, police spotted Salling’s car by the side of the road, and due to a family member of Salling reporting him as a missing person at 3am that morning, they checked the license plates and determined it was his car.” Then I guess they searched until they found his body.
“gentle and loving” – what a joke! anyone who watches kids get raped isn’t gentle or loving in any way.
Yeah, ‘gentle and loving’ should definitely not have been thrown in there.
Yeah….
Over 50,000 videos and pictures of pre-pubescent children found. That’s not a mistake or a misunderstanding or an “error in judgement”
He also paid over 2 million to an ex girlfriend after he sexually assaulted her.
I’m sad for his family, but mostly for the children and his victims.
I can’t bring myself to get celebratory over someone taking their own life, but the statement from his attorney rankles –
“I can confirm that Mark Salling passed away early this morning. Mark was a gentle and loving person, a person of great creativity, who was doing his best to atone for some serious mistakes and errors of judgment,” his attorney Michael Proctor tells PEOPLE.
I’m sorry – possessing child pornography isn’t an error of judgement. It is a gross crime and even if he never personally touched a child, he was getting off on something that victimizes and destroys children.
I agree – it is a deep and serious problem, not an error in judgment. I just don’t think abuse of children is something one can atone for. If I’m not mistaken he also had issues with violence and assault.
I feel sorry for his family, and anyone he hurt along the way, but not for him.
Glee is a cursed show…it had a bad ju-ju. If I was in that cast, I would visit a Reiki master to cleanse that out of my life.
Well Harry Shum Jr. is doing quite well, maybe he saw that Reiki Master you speak of. Then again he was one of the underrated characters and was pretty much phased out in the last three seasons. Thank the high heavens because those seasons sucked really bad.
OMG..I can’t wait to see Crazy Rich Asians. Harry was cast perfectly!
Me too Talie. Harry is so sexy and talented. He is the one member of Glee who was steady working before, during and after Glee. He was Cable in Step up 2 and 3, backup dancer for Beyonce and JLow. I love him on Shadowhunters and did you see YouTube Red Single by 30. It’s a Wong Fu production. Also if you watched the Oscars 2013 he was the one who choreographed the LXD performance. He was doing movies while Glee was still in seasons while the others only had Glee at that time. And you really don’t hear bad shit about him. In 2015 he married his gf he had been with since 2008, I think, Shelby Rabara. I’m fangirling right mow but it took my mind away from the real horror of this post.
I loved him as Magnus on Shadowhunters. Did Freeform cancel that? I never watched Glee, will have to now.
Yeah, I love him!!! 🙂 He was always my favorite.
There are some others (Colfer, Criss for example) who are doing very well.
Criss will always be Harry Potter to me because of the Very Potter Musical. Which is hilarious and silly and amazing. And anyone who’s watched it – I’ve been watching certain segments on buzzfeed for the longest time. One day I was just like WAIT. There’s a show on there called Lady Like – and Devyn played Cho in the musical. Didn’t recognize her for the longest time because she has super blonde hair now.
@H, nope shadowhunters will return for it’s 3rd season March 2018.
How f*ed that you guys are talking about sexy people on this thread? Seriously, read your audience? How does that even come into your head??
Good. He was a pedophile, a predator and a coward. He was ordered to pay $50,000 each in restitution to his victims but now they will have to sue his estate to get it b/c he killed himself before he was officially sentenced. One more slap in the face to his victims.
I feel for his family and his victims but I have zero sympathy for him. The world is better off without him.
Sorry to say, but I agree.
Exactly. Even his final moves were to cheat and hurt his victims.
Exactly. Good riddance.
But did he have actual victims who came into contact with him? It’s all horrific, don’t get me wrong. I’m just wondering how valid these claims of victims being owed money are. Surely if we was “just” downloading and distributing images there would be no way to really track victims to pay. Unless he was actually making some of these videos? Which manages to bring this to an even sicker level, if that’s even possible,
But yeah, he’s no loss to the world.
Do you know the law? Those payments are theoretical restitution, and for each child that can’t be identified, that money will gop to various programs dealing with aftereffects of child sexual abuse. Just because he didn’t touch those poor victims, by viewing, sharing, storing that disgusting content, he facilitated their abuse. That’s why he had to pay. It’s all explained upthread.
No need to be so snarky. I’m not from the US and we definitely don’t have a restitution set out like that were I’m from. I completely agree that he had to pay but from some of the reporting they’re kind of giving off a vibe that he was maybe more involved in it than “just” having the images. Also, 4-7 years seems far too little for what he was involved in. And he most definitely would have served less.
I am also not from the US. 🙂
I agree about the length of his punishment, and yes, he’s probably get out sooner-and considering recidivist rate for that kind of abuse, the chances of him not doing it again were pretty grim.
Sorry if I sounded harsh, it really was not my intention-although it does read that way. :/
Danielle, there is indeed a reason to be snarky (I’m talking about myself). Do you understand supply and demand? Even if, to use your words, “he was ‘just’ downloading & viewing the images” and not actually touching the child, he created a DEMAND for more images “just” by that action. If absolutely no one wanted these sickening images the demand would fall to zero. It would still exist unfortunately, but less children would be put through this hell.
Make sense?!
The way this works is that the FBI actually has a large database of images which they keep for law enforcement purposes. It helps them narrow down victims, locations, countries, etc. So, they actually do have many images in their database where they have ALREADY identified the victims.
There are certain images, or series of images, which are “popular” or “widely traded” by pedos. Many of the children in the “popular” images have already been identified. Many of the images were taken long ago.
Here is an article about one of the victims in the “most popular” series which explains how it works. http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/a-twist-in-child-porn-sentences-paying-restitution-to-victim-20150815/
So if someone is caught with porn of a victim that has already been identified, they have to pay restitution to that victim.
To be fair, those kids were never going to see that restitution money anyway. Theres no way he would have been able to afford it.
He has an account managed by his father with a value of $1.971 million. That’s a good start to pay restitution to the victims.
There’s no reason to be snarky and not even answer the actual question, which is the same one I had. It’s not about supply and demand, it’s how do you locate these kids. Thank you to Shasha for explaining.
As a gleek myself his death brought up a lot of conversations. Mostly I feel sorry for his victims who he revictimized by having videos and pictures of their abuse. Rarely do guys like this ever see redemption or have the ability to be rehabilitated. I can’t say Rest In Peace because frankly what he did was vile. But he was human so I cannot “celebrate” his death either (and yes there were people celebrating)
I’m opening a bottle of champagne.
Not sure why you decided to comment under me but I find celebrating someone’s death to be callous
ITA, Nicole.
You wrote, “and yes there were people celebrating”.
I confirmed your statement.
I’ll pop the second bottle! Another bonus is the resources the jail and city will save by not having to imprison/ monitor him for the rest of his life.
And less demand for these sick and twisted videos.
Im happy he’s dead.
It was only a matter of time before he personally abused small children himself.
If he wasn’t already, this stuff ALWAYS escalates.
He would have gotten out of prison eventually and would have gotten married and made his own victims he could abuse in the privacy of his own home.
Yeah..I mean, whatever private thoughts you have about the guy, you can still have those thoughts and observe some tact for the guy’s poor family.
Do we owe more responsibility to his families feelings than the families of those he contributed to hurting?
Do we owe responsibility to supporting their sadness over the death of an abuser and pedophile, than we do supporting the rage and sadness of the families and persons victimized?
I’m am sorry for his family, for what they lost long before he died. but I’m not unhappy he’s gone, and I’m glad it happened before he escalated beyond ‘just’ images. I just wish he had picked a more private place, and would much prefer that he had faced justice instead of forcing his victims through more hopes for restitution.
I think you can acknowledge that he was an awful person while also not dancing on his grave. I think we can also acknowledge that his family is innocent and lost someone. I think you can feel all of this while supporting victims of his abuse. Having him in jail is still having him so it is a loss. I’m not unhappy that he’s gone but comments like Nanny’s are callous and says more about them then Mark.
I’m not into celebrating the death of anyone. I’m just not. I have a job that is to take care of human suffering so its not in me to celebrate when people suffer. I can lack sympathy and I can ignore when it happens to terrible people. But celebrate? No
Nicole, I can agree with that. Celebrate is a strong word. I wouldn’t celebrate his death, but I won’t mourn it either.
I always will prefer to support victims and survivor voices and feelings over the predator, and even the predators family.
I have questions about treatment for this, but will post much lower on the thread.
Yea no, I’m not feeling sorry for a pedo in any compacity. And if his family were good people they wouldn’t feel sorry that their pedo son is dead. Their son was a sick pervert who preyed on innocent people. People are entitled to celebrate one less evil person on the planet. And the only reason he committed suicide is cause he knew he wouldn’t survive prison, most of the people in prison have children and don’t take too kindly to having pedos.
My pity is reserved for his victims, and nobody else.
Generally, men who do what he pleaded guilty to have been victims of some major sexual abuse as children. Maybe someone in his family deserves something other than sympathy. Over 90% of the time, the abuser is a family member or a very close family friend. Pedophiles don’t just spring out of nowhere. I hope the cycle is over, but sadly, abusers are usually very prolific and abuse many many children before they’re finally caught, if they ever are. My sympathy is with the children and the adults who have to be notified by police every time their abuse photos and videos turn up in an investigation.
Why have ‘tact’ (oh please)? Why NOT dance on his grave? Is his body sacred to you people? I am seriously asking, what is so sacred to you about this man that his death cannot be celebrated? Do you think he has a ‘beautiful soul’ or something floating around the atmosphere? Do you worship corporeal bodies? Are you afraid of death??? Because it all just seems to me that you’re projecting your own religious beliefs onto how others should feel. And that’s pretty disgusting, considering the subject here. Don’t use your spirituality to defend garbage like him. It lacks TACT.
I’ve seen the damage done by pedophilia, I don’t have any simpahty whatsoever to anyone who has sympathy for this loss. I mean, do you people celebrate when a dictator is taken down? were we gentle and compassionate when commenting deaths of terrorists, dictators, serial killers? How is this different? Awful for his family, if they really did not know and did not have a hand in him becoming this way (look for example of that honey boo boo child, whose mother practically allowed molestation of her kids, then brought that same molester around her kids again as soon as he got out of jail-and it turns out, her first child is a result of underage sexual abuse-the father was much older, and the mom underage…so the abuise cycle will probably go on, and for that I do blame the whole family)….but I won’t say I’m not happy one less pedophile is roaming this Earth.
JFC. You guys are giving my comment way more credit than it deserves. I said nothing about owing his family more sympathy than the families of the children who were molested nor did I say anything about feeling sorry (or not) for the victims.
I said VERY simply that you can feel all these things and not be f*cking gleeful about it or even verbalize it at all.
Also, it’s weird how everyone here is saying how sorry they are for the families of the kids who were molested without taking a damn second to think that maybe these parents were complicit in their molestation. JFC watch a documentary on pedophilia or Google “child sex trade” to understand that not every parent of a molested child is innocent (if you don’t already get that, which is problematic in and of itself). How the hell do you think so many children end up in this industry to begin with? HINT: They aren’t all kidnapped.
Also, this forum is getting insane in that if you don’t echo the exact same sentiment as every other person, it somehow means that you’re wrong or that you’re defending the indefensible. Nobody is defending pedophilia or saying that this guy was a victim or saying you should feel sorry for him or his family. Feel whatever the f*ck you want but know that his family already feels awful, already feels an insane amount of shame, and already has suffered loss. Know that his little cousin or his mother could be reading this and know that gleefully celebrating this guy’s death doesn’t change sh*t, except for open up the possibility of making his family feel worse when they literally JUST lost their son.
But whatever. Go crazy I guess.
@ohreally, I really like how you stated your opinion and it seems a lot of people here are commenting without analyzing the damage this person did.
“Because it all just seems to me that you’re projecting your own religious beliefs onto how others should feel.”
@ Ohreally- Um no, empathy and compassion are not the exclusive domain of the religious and as an atheist, I HIGHLY resent the inmplication. Your ridiculous hyperbole aside (worshipping a dead body wtf??), celebrating ANYONE’S death is simply not my style. I would feel that way if it were Trump or Charles Manson or any.f*cking.one.
I’m also vehemently opposed to the death penalty and would find no comfort in witnessing any criminal’s execution, even if they took the life of a loved one. I guess that makes me a crazy religious, pedo-defender according to you. Cool. I’m still thankful for people like Nicole because empathy and mercy is at a premium in Trump America.
Kitten, you wrote
“Also, it’s weird how everyone here is saying how sorry they are for the families of the kids who were molested without taking a damn second to think that maybe these parents were complicit in their molestation.”
Well, anybody who’s guilty of this should be found and punished too. Nobody’s claiming otherwise. I’m pretty sure anybody writing about praying for the victims and their families didn’t mean the guilty ones.
But ATM we’re not discussing those because we don’t have any info on them. We’re discussing a pedophile who decided to join the choir invisible because he couldn’t take the world all of a sudden being mean to him eventhough he deserved it. Boo hoo hoo.
Ok I’ve officially fallen into the *over-commenting vortex* but just one last thing and then I’m going back to work to let you guys yell at me in absentia….
I want to amend my opinion a bit. Firstly, I shouldn’t have said that these parents could be complicit in their children’s molestation when I have absolutely no idea whether that is true. This is neither the time or place for that conversation AT ALL and it certainly isn’t the time to speculate about such things. I’m sorry and I wish I could take it back.
Also, after reviewing this thread in its entirety and reading comments about this guy’s fan base, maybe this is just the balance occurring here. Some are expressing overt sympathy and issuing “RIP”-style condolences, well then maybe those expressing glee are just creating an equilibrium.
*shrugs*
Lastly, I apologize if I was insensitive or seemed like I was defending this abhorrent person. That being said, I still can’t excited about death but won’t stop/shame/guilt the rest of you for feeling differently, particularly those of you who are abuse survivors. Again, sorry if I came across as insensitive when my intention was quite the opposite.
This place has been a forum of support for me during some dark times and I owe it to others to be the same.
Kitten – I was thinking the same thing when I read about the monetary restitution to the children. The odds are actually quite high that someone in their family was involved, either by photographing/videoing the abuse themselves or by selling or renting out the child to a pornographer.
I wonder how virtual pornography (not based on any actual child) will change the situation. Some years ago there was a project to ferret out viewers of real-time child porn on the web – when a child actually performs on request for pay on a webcam. Except it wasn’t an actual child but rather a computer-generated image. I think interpol was maybe involved. They passed along the contact info of the viewers (all over the world) to local police who found real child porn on their computers and thus something that could be used to arrest them.
The capabilities of modern technology to realistically simulate pornography raise a lot of questions for what this means for pedophiles. Will it make them less dangerous to real children or will it have the opposite effect? My instincts are that they will need lifelong supervision as a danger to children regardless (not necessarily in prison but in ways that keep them away from children), but I don’t know how that would play out legally. We don’t seem to have much success dealing with the condition.
You want to be the “voice of reason”, I get it. But its exhausting. Were you molested as a child? Have you had to live your entire life recovering, or NOT recovering? If not, please pick another subject in which to be better than everyone else.
I’m sorry, Cindy. I think you have every right to feel how you do about it.
Its less voice of reason and more personality for me. I cannot be in the job I am in and say celebrating the death of someone is okay for me. I can’t. I don’t have it in me.
Now I’ve had victims cross my desks (young because I don’t treat adults) who feel differently. I find that to be different and well its not my job to judge in that space but to process. But its not about being better than everyone…I just find celebrating the death of someone callous. Its an opinion and everyone has one.
@cindy, I just want to second deets’ comment and say you and other victims of abuse have every right to whatever reactions you have to his death, including feelings of celebration.
My comment is not worth much, but I am so sorry that you went through that.
Nicole you definitely think your opinion is “better” than everyone else’s reactions, though. That’s why you are JUDGING them.
Cindy, I haven’t been affected by molestation, but I agree with you. We can celebrate when dictator or terrorist dies…although these people also had families who were probably innocent in all of that….and people were celebrating left and right.*
This is worse than that. I honestly feel child s. abuse is the worst thing a human can do. the worst. there is no repentance. None. In my eyes, abusers of this kind have revoked their “human” card.
I know it doesn’t mean much, but I’m sending you the biggest hug, Cindy.
* I feel that, no matter what we say to each other, how many commercials go on and on about welfare of our children, somewhere deep down we/sYstem/society still haven’t started thinking about children as our FUTURE, as our biggest treasure. Look at foster care, child sexual abuse, the laws and actual, real protection of the children: the laws always sound great, but in practice-it’s always the mildest punishment, the second chances to the abusers, the circumventing of the law, the cases of serious negligence and misconduct of court……The society should be judged on how good it is at protecting the most vulnerable…and modern society fails at that, pretty hard.
@nicole
I realize your opinion is important to you. But you are not better than molestation victims who are relieved when someone like him is gone. Thats not “celebration”, that is normal. It doesn’t make you a more evolved person to “feel bad”, it makes you a person who doesn’t know what they are talking about when it comes to child sexual abuse. Nothing I say here will ever get through to you, so I will stop there.
“Nicole you definitely think your opinion is “better” than everyone else’s reactions, though. That’s why you are JUDGING them.”
Are you kidding me? HOW is Nicole judging anyone’s opinion? You know, Nicole is a pretty f*cking empathetic person. She can feel disgusted by everything this guy did and also not be excitedly cheering on his death. I don’t get why people are so either/or around here. These two feelings are not mutually exclusive in any way, shape or form.
@cindy, I was a victim of childhood sexual assault (multiple times when I was six by my 17 year old male babysitter and again when I was aged 9-11 by a male peer. The abuse from the male peer was actually a lot worse than the babysitter for a lot of reasons which I don’t want to get into) and adult sexual assault/rape (last time was in 2016 by a stranger in a Chicago nightclub/eatery at age 42. I did report it to the police and filed a complaint but it went nowhere since I had to go back to Texas for work. When I got back I got written up by my horrible clinical manager because I had the audacity to miss a day of work because I couldn’t get out of Chicago secondary to the police questioning. It was like being assaulted twice. She no longer works for us, thank god.)
I also practice medicine and work with people much like @nicole and I get her point of view as well. I truly don’t think she’s judging anyone else’s point of view, merely stating her OWN opinion about the fact that it seems anathema, to HER PERSONALLY, to celebrate someone’s death. I didn’t see any evidence of her defending Salling in any of her posts. I completely get your anger and I felt absolutely NO emotion at all about his death. I think it’s better he’s gone, if I’m being honest, but I didn’t pop a bottle of champagne, either. My sister initially felt bad for him (we were big fans of the first three seasons of Glee and I remember watching the pilot live back in 2010 and just crying hysterically at the end) until I told her about the number of images he had and the fact that they were of THREE YEAR OLDS. That’s just so fucking beyond I can hardly wrap my head around it. It’s ALL HORRIBLE, of course, but fucking babies and toddlers are just so next level I want to throw up.
Anyway, I just wanted to offer a perspective from someone who’s been through it and didn’t take offense at @nicole’s comment (or your, for that matter.)
Thank you @Elysium1973 for getting what I’m saying. Silver said it below that relief is closer to what I feel but that’s not celebration either. Saying that celebrating death is callous is literally my opinion. Again in my job I HAVE to separate my opinions from my work. That’s my job. But my job is also to help, to empathize and to feel and personally I am not able to celebrate the death of ANYONE. That is me. Empathetic people do not find joy in ANYONE’S suffering and I personally swing pretty far on an empathy scale.
That is not you and its certainly not every victim and that’s fine. Nowhere in my comment did I say it wasnt. I’m sure there are victims that would celebrate and others that would be relieved or numb. How do I know? I’ve seen it.
Do I think the world is better without rapists, murderers, racists, etc? Yes. Would I celebrate their suicide or death? No
@geekychick, I think your view is shared by a lot of people, but I genuinely don’t understand why molesting or abusing a child is necessarily worse than molesting or abusing an adult. Could you explain further?
I never watched Glee, so I have no attachment or fond memories of this guy. I feel nothing about his death. Not sad or glad. Suicide usually is very tragic, but in this case, it may allow his family to grieve in earnest for the fond memories of him and not feel conflicted about it. This could have released them from guilt and shame and spared them from further scandalous headlines.
Word
Interesting perspective.
I hadn’t thought about that, Mags. Interesting…
Wow. Interesting POV. Thanks for adding it.
I am not celebrating or being sad about this.
I think, as a rape survivor, the feeling I might feel is ‘relief’, as I would feel if someone informed me that my rapist had taken his own life.
Abusers, rapists and pedophiles do not redeem themselves often. I think the percentage is very low (about 5%, old stats though).
Therefore I am relieved that this man (even if he was going to jail, it wasn’t for life) will not re-offend again.
The lawyer’s statement is pure absurdity instead. Errors of judgement?!?!? Good grief.
YES. Isn’t this what MagnoliaRose and Nicole are saying as well?
And yes, I can only imagine the relief one would feel if their sexual assaulter was gone for good. In that sense, I hope that his death can be a source of comfort for the victims. That being said, I’m more concerned that law enforcement gets the people who are creating these atrocious videos in the first place. Because I have a nagging feeling that these kids may still be somewhere unsafe, in the hands of a terrible person.
Kitten, I’ll respond to you here, rather than the morass above for clarity, and if you are feeling personally attacked, that was not my intent.
I’m not new here, not by a long shot. I just look different now. I specifically commented below you because I know your politics enough, and know you can handle a discussion.
You may disagree, but I’m come to the conclusion that posters who comment frequently have a platform of sorts, a name, and with that comes a responsibility. A responsibility to amplify certain voices, and hopefully dampen others.
You know of more than one frequent commenter who has suffered by the hands of monsters similar to Salling. I’ve read those comments, and I know you have as well. The same as you feel people should keep quiet about their happiness at his death, many of those people probably feel similarly about those feeling sad for it.
Would we commment with empathy regarding Weinstein? About Trump? Would we call those who are outraged and hurt, lesser?
Whose voice and what message are you choosing to amplify. You may have accidentally stumbled upon an audience, but you have one none the less.
And Silver, as always, your strength and compassion are humbling.
I know when my rapist was killed in a fiery car crash, that I know for a fact he suffered in, all I could feel was relief. I didn’t celebrate because his friends had to watch him die and his family didn’t know what horrible things he’d done to me. I felt sorry for them. But to know he’d suffered a greater pain in death than he’d caused me that day was a “nice” feeling. Sadly it didn’t take away the emotional pain I deal with to this day.
That feeling of relief is quite normal. A potential threat is removed from your life or in this case, the lives of others. I’ve felt that relief myself with the death of far less problematic people.
He would not have been in prison forever and the odds are very high that on release he would continue to view child porn if he could get it, which as others have correctly pointed out maintains the demand for it. I don’t know the odds of him going further to direct abuse of children (or if he had already done so but just wasn’t caught).
I just wish we knew more about what is wrong with such people and how to fix it. I recall hearing that some programs have been successful dealing with abusers within families, but am not sure how long-term that has been or if there have to be special circumstances. Because children are involved, my own feeling is that they need to be constantly monitored. The consequences are too great.
The way he chose to end his life is problematic for many reasons, but obviously it solved a lot of problems for both himself and others (in particular his family).
More celebratory reactions to his death are a concern for other reasons. Peole who have lost loved ones to murder (a very traumatic event for families, a friend lost his sister that way) and actively promote killing the murderer (capital punishment/ execution) seem to have much more trouble recovering from the trauma than people who respond by saying they don’t want to kill the murderer, just to prevent him or her from killing again, and have empathy for the family of the murderer. Witnessing the execution isn’t really the emotional fix that people assume it will be. The drive for vengeance is not the most effective healer, even though killing the murderer does produce relief that he or she is clearly eliminated as a potential threat forever.
We have enough celebration of death in our culture as a solution to problems. For example, people respond to feeling afraid of other countries by cheering dropping bombs on unarmed people. I still remember talking with a young man after the 12-minute raid on Libya in 1986 that killed Khaddafi’s young child and severely injured others in his family, as well as other Libyans. The young man had no sense of remorse for the death of the child but rather said we had no choice because “our backs were against the wall”. He felt that personally threatened by a small country. I also remember talking with a Vietnam War vet who felt the war was stupid but also wished that we had nuked the whole country, North and South. In the same conversation, he wished the same for the entire Soviet Union. He wasn’t crazy. He was just more honestly expressing a common response to fears real and imagined – just eliminate everybody who could possibly be a threat, including mostly unarmed men, women, and children.
People cheered on racist lynchings for similar reasons, in response to unjustified and misdirected fears that were real enough to the ones who acted on them. The American love affair with guns is to some degree fed by the same response to fear – the desire to eliminate a threat (which can be quite real) by killing.
At some point, we need to find other ways to deal with our fears and real threats. We can’t just kill everybody.
I agree, Nicole. Well said. Even in the face of monsters, we can’t lose our humanity.
This sums it up nicely. That’s the last I’ll say on this.
His attorneys statement really annoyed me. He makes it sound like he accidentally walked out of a store with a candy bar. No, it wasn’t an error of judgement. You don’t have an error of judgement and wind up with THAT MUCH of anything on your computer. Call him kind and gentle all you want – but he was helping keep demand up for people to harm kids as young as THREE. Great if he never actually acted on these urges outside of images/vids, but it’s still incredibly damaging. He’s part of a much larger problem, unfortunately. Hopefully the investigations led to getting some of the people creating and distributing.
The one good thing to come out of this is that his victims and their families know that this guy is gone now. Forever.
I do feel bad for his family. I don’t think anyone just raises someone to be this way. And it’s a shame that the brother and parents are always going to be connected to a guy who did this. But at the same time – they lost a family member who I’m sure they loved and who was probably a kind, happy child at one point.
They got a guy a half hour or so away from where I live recently. 19 year old charged with possession of the same kind of horrible images and videos, as well as voyeurism charges. These kinds of guys are everywhere, every age. And it’s not just men. It’s so terrifying how many victims there are of this kind of exploitation – I can’t even begin to imagine the scope of the damage.
Pedophiles are born that way, they usually know from a young age. Some of them turn into pedo criminals when they are only teenagers. So, no surprise here.
They are born that way? Is that actually a fact? I thought the most common situation was that they were abused themselves…that not all victims of abuse go on to be predators….but that often abusers were themselves victims at one point.
There is no excuse for it in any case. But I was just surprised to read your comment as I didn’t realize that was the case.
Pamela, there are definitely men who do this who were not abused themselves. The problem in many cases is that it has become a crime of opportunity. The internet offers this opportunity like never before. Some men feel entitled to explore their curiosity, and can even convince themselves that it’s a victimless crime.
there are 3 kind of child abusers: those that are pedophiles-born that way(smaller percent), those that were affected by some kind of trauma during their growth (usually molestation, Michael Jackson is considered one of those-that he was emotionally stumped) and those that are actually s. sadists to whom the most vulnerable are the ultimate victims, if the most vulnerable were some other group, they’d get off on torturing them.
yes, his lawyers statement made me mad. From what I’ve read some of the videos and images were classified as “child torture porn” this wasn’t your run of the mill pedo that had a chance at rehabilitation, he was a deranged human who got off on watching small children being sexually tortured! Rot in hell
And what’s the point of being so cautious in his statement? The guy is deasd, he’s not going to be sentenced, there is no need to try and twist the truth, lie, obfuscate in order to protect his client’s “best interests” or reputation anymore. There is no need to speak in “lawyer talk” about his crimes being “errors of judgements,” or about the guy attempting to atone for his crimes. Those are things you say when you don’t want to admit your client is fully guilty bc you are trying to get him the lightest sentence or trying to prevent him being found guilty in the first place. His client doesn’t need his help anymore so continuing to release statements about what a good and kind soul he was, and how he had just made an error of judgement is just gross, untruthful bullshitting now.
Might also be in deference to his family, who only knew an entirely different side of him. Likewise for his fellow cast members on Glee. People are multifaceted. Unfortunately, one of his facets was awful.
I can feel bad for the victims and Salling.
Just to point out: pedophiles that have the thoughts not don’t act on them DO NOT get help or support.
Salling was sick… but there may have been a point where he could have been helped. And helping him means some of those photos wouldn’t have existed or been distributed.
The best (but actually worst) part is he killed himself in a baseball field where children frequent. Fuck this guy. The comments on jezebel are wonderful. I have no sympathy for this man. Frankly, he just didn’t want to face the consequences of his disgusting and detrimental behaviour in jail and he bowed out. I’m almost angry he didn’t get to suffer given how inmates treat pedophiles who are notably bottom of the totem pole. The only positive is that taxpayers don’t have to support his disgusting self in jail now.
I did think that about where he chose, none of us can say what was going through his mind but it was beside a little league field so a child could easily have found him.
It was also not lost on me that he died by suicide near a little league baseball field. This is a pointless conversation to have yet i can’t help but wonder whether that was intentional or not.
He died. I’m not shedding any tears. I feel disturbed by the fangirls defending him and some of the comments his costars made, though I understand the conflict they must be in. Yet some of the comments do come off as dismissive of his crimes… this is just a terrible story all around.
Apparently it was out of sight of the field, and closer to the running and horse trails.
Small blessing.
I’ll take the small blessing, because that was one of the first things I thought about – did he want to hurt more kids by where he hung himself? I’m glad he had some minimal discretion. I also thought about what would actually happen to him in prison. He failed his first suicide effort, he succeeded the second time. He did not want to die in prison, but he knew he would if that’s where he landed. He subverted justice just as he subverted children’s innocence. Addiction is cruel, no matter what substance the addict is addicted to. Cruel to the addicted, cruel to the family, and in this instance, cruel to his innocent victims. Hot damn.
Kaiser, I worked at a suicide hotline and we in that community don’t like the term “committed suicide.” Committed has such negative implications, as in committing a crime. We prefer “died by suicide.” Just FYI.
Thank you for this information, I read this site and always learn something.
Didn’t know there wa a correct term, thank you for sharing.
Please!!!
I’ve seen this recently and while I think it’s a good adjustment of language in general, I feel like in this case I can’t bring myself to care. I’m never going to celebrate anyone’s death but this f*cker had tens of thousands of picture of child porn in his possession. I just don’t care if it has negative connotations here.
His former colleages need to shut up. Yes you can mourn, yes you can – if you can stomach it – still love the guy but there are times when you don’t need to do it publicly. There are times when social media is not the place to do something. It’s like this has become a foreign concept. If it’s not on effin’ Twitter it didn’t happen?
@Steph- Yes, I second the thank you for this insight that the term is “died by suicide” rather than “committed suicide.” I had a family member die by suicide last week and your information is helpful to me so that I can communicate compassionately and respectfully with her parents. Thank you for clarifying the term.
Interesting, the crisis folks I work with often refer to it as “completed a suicide” but I find that term a bit confusing (people almost always ask, “what do you mean?”) and kind of implies the person has a history of surviving attempted suicides, which despite being common isn’t always the case.
Gonna be a dick here, but died, and suicide both have negative connotations calling it anything else doesn’t make it less of what it is, or less manipulative.
I hope his victims can find peace and healing in this world and I hope his family have support to deal with a very difficult situation.
Keep in mind he never touched a kid, that we know of. He was in possession of porn. Yes he contributed to the market by buying, downloading and watching the abuse. And hell no, I’m not defending that but some people are thinking he was arrested for directly sexually abusing kids.
They need to go after the people who made these videos and pics as well. I heard there is more to come and he might have been killed to keep him quiet. Conspiracy theory, maybe.
I honestly don’t see where the difference is. In one case you personally molest/abuse a child, in the other you pay someone to do it for you so you’re not only causing the pain, you’re also participating in a marketplace. How is one or the other worse?
I have no idea why this distinction had to be made. He has 50 thousand images of children being raped and abused, many as young as three. He contributed directly to their suffering by consuming it. He sexually assaulted his ex. He harmed and damaged all these children whether or not he touched them. I highly doubt he watched all this and didn’t covertly order services at some point. Even if he didnt.
I think I understand what you’re saying, and I don’t think it hurts to mention that while he may never truly pay for his role in this, there is an entire underground network that won’t skip a beat at the loss of his “business”. THAT, to me, is unfathomably disturbing and horrifying. I feel like I hear a fair amount of news around people who use these images and videos getting caught, but almost nothing about the people really running the show (well, there was a network exposed in Canada and the US a little while back, but before that and aside from that, I couldn’t say). It’s ok to demand both justice for the crimes he committed and also want to bring light to the fact he is but a very small piece in a much larger machine of nightmares.
The distinction need not be made. He purchased images of children being abused. The images were made because he (and people like him) wanted to buy them. I really see no difference.
There is no difference in terms to the trauma and damage done to a child, so I don’t see why should I keep that in mind. He doesn’t deserve anything.
Can you even begin to imagine how much more trauma is inflicted by the knowledge that your rape is watched by thousands of other sick demented psychos all over the world. To spend a lifetime never knowing which of the men you come across in life has paid to masturbate to your childhood rape?
There is no moral victory in “only” being a consumer when what you are consuming is child torture.
To be honest, I’m disturbed by his cast/crew mates comments. I understand they may have been friends, but “no doubt an abuse victim himself” and “If you’re without sin, feel free to cast stones.” Really??? Gross.
I hate that they’re lumping him in with Corey in their messages.
Please don’t compare the two.
YES! I’ve seen so many headlines about this include pictures of him with Cory. It also just says he died by suicide with no more context. He died because he was about to go to jail for CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.
Totally, I understand that he was their colleague, but but it’s like they lost perspective on the situation. There were children as young as three on those photos and videos, there is no justification, no matter how kind he was to his co-stars.
The stone casting, I can’t even, how is my lying about someone’s boots (for example) comparable to child pornography?!
The colleagues that are being asked about him really should be saying “no comment” and moving on.
I understand that if you had a friend that you loved, who you would NEVER in a million years suspect of such a thing…turned out to be a pedophile, and then later killed themselves…wow. That would be hard to process. I’m disgusted by his story, but I imagine if I had once been close to him , I would probably grieve his death. But they an do that PRIVATELY. To say a bunch of nice things about a guy who had images of 3 year olds being sexually abused? WTF is wring with these people? And his lawyer with the dismissive language needs to take a seat.
That really gets to me that people believe that abuse victims go on to be abusers themselves. Statistically is it wrong and it re-victimizes someone who is now being told that they have no way out of the abuse cycle. I think the inclination behind that type of thinking is that abuse only happens in certain types of families, never “good” families that have decent people, so those non decent people will continue on with the abuse and others will be safe from that type of harm. It is a mode of self delusion/protection that it will never happen among “decent” people like you, abusers come from all walks of life, professions and ages. to think anything else if foolish.
Thank you for this. I recommend the graphic novel “Something Terrible” by Dean Trippe for a really powerful perspective.
I work with foster youth, and it is true that not all victims go on to abuse. That being said, when I look at the files of my foster clients that engage in child on child sex abuse about 90% of them were sexually abused. The other 10% usually have mental illness, and quite a few have a history of head injuries. I always get some that seem to have no decernable reason for their actions. In one of my trainings, one of the therapists said there had been some studies done that showed differences in the brains of pedophiles.
Amen to this. I have a very close family member who was raped as a child-he has NEVER victimized someone else, and is still in therapy to deal with the shame, guilt, and lack of self-worth he feels over his abuse.
Exactly this stat is one of the most widely used in cases like this…and so completely wrong
Who wrote “If you’re without sin, feel free to cast stones.” for this dude? Because eff that person. What the hell?
ETA: Oh, it was Tim Davis. Good-bye.
It was one of the men behind the scene in charge of the music. Not a direct cast but I forgot his name and too lazy to Google
Right? If THAT is the sin we’re talking about, most people are without it. Bring out the stones.
I can’t understand publicly defending him. Just…don’t.
It’s very disturbing. Jane Lynch retweeted the cast member about “casting the first stones.” I’m sorry, Jane, but are you implying that everyone else has also downloaded 50,000 pieces of child pornography, thus contributing to the continuing market for sexual abuse of children for profit? I don’t think I can watch her stuff any more.
exactly they are so out of touch with reality its disgusting. he didn’t make a bad judgement call he hurt CHILDREN. there is no forgiveness or excuse for that. hollywood once again is tone deaf and focused on the perpetrator rather than the real victims. pedophiles do not rehabilitate, they reoffend. its sad for his family and sad for the victims who will not get real justice but i have zero sympathy for him he can rot in hell
He killed himself near a little league field. A place where kids could have seen his dead body. He was evil and vile through the end.
Yes – he couldn’t even take his own life without subjecting children to trauma! Very telling. One might think that the guilt was too much to bare for him, but I think he was just scared of what other prisoners do to pedophiles in prison. He would probably spend only 4 years or less in prison which doesn’t sound so long – but imagine what could happen to a pedophile during that time!
What he did was wrong, enjoyi g videos of children being abused is inexcusable. But some people are saying he was directly abusing kids. He was not convicted or proven to have ever touched a child but he was in possession of child porn.
The guy clearly had some kind of mental issue but I can’t get on board with people saying I’m glad he’s dead.
Now there are some who do not believe it was a suicide. They are saying Mark was suppose to drop names on people in the child pornography ring and where he got his videos from. They are saying that’s why he is dead, a murder staged as a suicide. Others are saying he just didn’t want to spend a couple of years in jail.
I hope this doesn’t turn into the curse of the Glee cast. Cory and Mark, both gone. But I still think Mark had a better singing voice than Cory
I see what you’re saying but….this kind of thing isn’t freely available on most sites and by buying it/finding it, he’s supporting sexual abuse of children as young as three. There’s a depraved market for it, which he was a participant in.
I honestly doubt this was a murder, he’d tried last year after pleading guilty. His only saving grace would be if, hopefully he’s given the police some leads if he had any, on where this was coming from so they can catch distributors before he took his life.
He helped create the market. This was a grown man who got enjoyment from watching the sexual abuse and violation of children as young as three. He paid to watch another hold down and violate three year olds. Let that sink in, we can tap dance around with semantics all day long, but that is where he got his enjoyment and was only caught because he was arrogant and confident enough to brag about this to a girlfriend who told authorities.
Lindy I said up post that his contribution was buying, downloading and watching the abuse. He was wrong , dead wrong.
I know about his first sucided attempt. Thats why some are saying it’s so easy to pass this off as,a suicide because he tried it before. I feel bad for the victims and Mark’s family.
I just hope he gave the investigators something to go on. The other culprits are still out there and have these kids in their possession. I just think about the same kids he was viewing are still with those predators, still being abused. But yeah, go after the abusers as well as the ones who watch.
Edit: Tane and Fruitloops, just stop. Don’t do that. Stating facts has nothing to do with minimizing his actions. I hate what he did, so don’t come at me just to have something to say. Read my other post I already said what you’re saying.
Exactly, Lindy. Demand shapes supply, so anyone who downloads child pornography is also responsible for its creation.
@zapp, why is a three year old worse than a 10 year old? a 15 year old?
This is a slippery slope. It definitely sounds like you are minimizing his actions. Even if he never laid a hand on those children he was still very much complicit in their abuse and nothing excuses that.
Someone was sexually abusing a THREE year old so that he could watch it an get off on it. He is no better than a person making the video or photo, just becauss he wasn’t directly involved. A THREE year old was still abused, because of him and others like him.
What Lindy and Tanesha said.
And why would people involved in a child pornography ring mask a murder into suicide? They’re highly sought after criminals, whom nobody can sadly name. A murder charge of this dude is probably the least of their worries. They have children’s blood on their hands already.
This is just wishful thinking of some fans who are trying to find at least one redeeming quality for this man. Doing the right thing at the end and all. Yea, not buying it.
If he was going to drop names he’s had SO much time to do it. He was originally arrested in 2015. He was also accused of sexual assault by a girlfriend in 2013. Dude was a pile of garbage. If this was a hit – why wouldn’t it have been done before? Once the scope of the damage had been realized the case was handed over to feds – this (to my knowledge) was before June of 2016.
There are very few kinds of people in the world where I think everyone is better off without. People who abuse children and the people that drive up demand and enable the abuse are some of them.
@V don’t do what? Why did you feel it necessary to add that qualifier if not to minimize and attempt to garner sympathy for him? In the eyes of the law he is just as guilty as those who perpetuated the abuse and recorded/photographed it so your distinction is for all for naught. Really it’s just a slap in the face to those children who were victimized. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with what I said 🤷🏾♀️
Erinn, if you’re talking to me I’m not the one who is saying it’s a murder, I’m just repeating what others were saying. And they say that he has dropped some names but it wasn’t released to the public due to the ongoing investigation. So why would someone want to kill him, well a dead person can’t testify, right?
It was also said that some of his videos were hand delivered and it’s a possibility that some of the abuse was stateside and might even involve people behind the scenes in Hollywood. All just hearsay but it’s what some are speculating the same way we do on here.
And asking why wasn’t it done before is like asking why didn’t Cosby victims come out before. We don’t really know.
V4Real, I was the one commenting on the murder aspect. What I wanted to say isn’t that there is no reason for some people to want him dead. I’m saying there’s no reason for them to frame it as suicide.
It wasn’t really directed AT you – just going off of what you’ve said was posted elsewhere. I find it strange to think that NOW someone would bother to murder him to cover for their involvement. He’s been out of custody for quite some time. I would assume that if names were dropped they were already being investigated. And if he dropped names, they would have his statements on file. Regardless of whether he has gone to trial yet or not. I doubt that the feds have sat on this and waited for a trial to start investigating others / attempting to bring the source down. The longer the source and others involved were at large, the longer kids were suffering – and the number of them jumping.
I just think if someone was really intent on covering up their involvement they would have been in panic mode long before now. And there’s a difference between a victim building up the courage to speak out who is afraid of the public response and a criminal trying to cover their tracks. The longer they let witnesses walk around the more chances to link them to the case.
I mean – it could be a murder. But I don’t really think it’s the most likely case. I think the guy realized he only had so much time left and felt there was no possible other outcome. Or maybe a victim went after him – or a family member of a victim. Who knows – but the most plausible answer is a suicide.
@V4Real…He is consuming that evil stuff therefor SUPPORTING the industry. The people taking the pictures and making the videos are abusing children to feed his habit. It’s a sinful, vicious circle and EVERYONE on is just as guilty and does not deserve to walk the earth.
But I already said that, more than once. Read my posts, I said he contributed by buying, downloading and viewing.
And I’m not happy he took his own life, death was too easy of a punishment for him.
Exactly Fruitloops. I don’t understand her motivation here in this thread. No one should be caping for this man.
I would assume he had already offered all the info he had after conviction but before sentencing, yes? That kind of cooperation might get him a lighter sentence and earlier parole.
The coward didn’t have the courage to face the music. I have no pity for a pedophile, only the victims he left behind. The world is a bit safer for children now. AMF
I think the entire situation is tragic. Many pedophiles were victimized as children. Not all of them… but many. I have no idea if Mark Salling was a victim. We, as a society, are very compassionate and caring toward the children who are victimized. However, the minute these child victims grow up and start the cycle of abuse again, we forget they are still a human and that they were once abused. People are quick to want to lock pedophiles up for life, call for violence against them, and often rally for their death. I feel for the victims here. I feel for the families of the victims. I feel for the family of Mark Salling. And, I feel for Mark Calling. Clearly he was sick. I don’t know what the answers are, but I think compassion and mental health care is a good place to start.
“However, the minute these child victims grow up and start the cycle of abuse again, we forget they are still a human and that they were once abused.”
I’ve been abused for 20 years. I have never abused anyone else though. Nope, maybe they are not ‘human’ anymore. I am sorry but if one doesn’t distinguish between good and evil, something has broken in their head forever.
And I don’t care for pedophiles who give a bad name to all of us survivors.
Being abused doesn’t give any licence to harm/abuse others.
Agree. They’re just continuing he cycle of abuse. I can feel bad for the abused child, but once they abuse, that sympathy goes out the window. -from someone who was abused by a victim/abuser for YEARS. The minute he decided to rape a child, he lost his victim card.
We’re just beginning to realize how brain development affects behavior. There are certain areas of the brain that are connected with such basic aspects of ourselves as empathy, for example. One test is to show pictures of distressed people to the subject and watch for activity in the amygdala- the area lights up with normal people but not for those without empathy such as sociopaths. Something went wrong with development of empathy and that area of the brain.
I would not be surprised if certain brain regions are associated with pedophila. It’s a counterproductive disorder when considering survival of the species. (Most people would find those pictures highly disturbing. We have a built-in desire to protect the very young.) Those brain regions could be damaged by trauma, physical or emotional (our emotions do drive physical changes or lack of development, everything is ultimately physical) or could be underdeveloped in the womb, explaining why some percentage of pedophiles were abused themselves but not all and the fact that most abused children do not grow up to be abusers themselves. Knowing more about the brain in such disorders may help us figure out ways for early intervention in children or adolescents and for constructively dealing with adults.
I understand what you are saying ALOT and I also understand why abuse survivors reject this thinking.
There is certainly no studies that are able to establish a causal link as to why some children who are abused go on to perpetuate the cycle of abuse and why some do not, but it is indisputable that a percentage of children who are abused will go on to become abusers.
I think while some people can acknowledge there is no perfect way to process abuse and can have compassion for problematic behavior (a la Rose McGowan), for some the line gets drawn when the survivor becomes an abuser. I can imagine for some survivors it seems inconceivable that you would process you pain by inflicting the same experience on someone else. For people who haven’t been made to suffer abuse and its aftermath, I think it’s possible to have the emotional distance to see the correlation between their own abuse and the abuser they became and, without excusing the behavior, be able to find some compassion for the impact that their own abuse likely had.
This isn’t to say that it is wrong not to have that compassion, only to explain that for those who do feel it, it’s not excusing them or diminishing the amount of awe and respect we have for survivors who come through the experience without damaging others. And by expressing it, it is not to increase your pain, but to raise the issue in hopes that one day we will be able to identify why exactly some victims go on to become abusers and to hopefully do something to prevent it. I respect that isn’t your role, and that is the responsibility of others to do, but these discussions are part of the pressure we as a society need to apply to get these issues looked at.
I’m going to say this because i think it needs to be said. If you are abused as a child, and you choose to inflict this soul murder on other children, knowing what it does to people you are the lowest of the low. You can’t say you didn’t know. You know exactly what your doing and you choose each and every time that you’re not going to care. It doesn’t get any more unrepentant than that which is why all pedophiles, especially the ones who have been abused as children should rot in hell.
actually, the majority of abused children do not grow up to be abusers, that is a dangerous and insensitive narrative to push forth.
I really wish the term “pornography” wasn’t used when it comes to children – they are minors, they can’t give consent, it’s filmed rape and sexual abuse. Using the term porn softens the reality too much.
You are right. The words should reflect the horror of child rape on film. That’s hard to type.
I agree. And to call it kiddie porn makes it sound like a ride at the park or something.
It should be called images of rape and sexual assault. Nothing else.
@OriginalLala – I agree, the language used around images of child sex abuse needs to change, because it just doesn’t get treated seriously enough.
Agree. I hate the term.
Children as young as 3?! 🤢 I don’t feel an ounce of sympathy for him, he took the coward’s way out. I feel for his victims and his family who will have to live with his abhorrent actions for the rest of their lives. Honestly 3-7 years isn’t long enough in my opinion. Child predators are the lowest of the low.
I read some stuff on twitter and can’t believe some people are so ignorant they are mourning a fictional character that this pedophile played! Really????
That was odd. I kept reading people saying they were not mourning Mark but Puck, and I wanted to say, Glee ended in 2015. Or, buy the DVD, guys.
And if they LOOOVED the character so much – thank the freaking writers.
Good riddance. Sorry, but 2017 has burned out any sympathy I had for abusers. The choice to get help is there. Instead, he chose to support the sexual exploitation of children and more than likely abused one himself at some point.
I’m not saying you should feel sympathy for this guy. What he did was reprehensible, and no excuse that anyone could give would make me think otherwise. Because I’ve worked with some children who have sexually assaulted other children, I do feel sympathy for pedophiles. I don’t excuse their behavior, but I also see how the sweet little 9 year old that I am working with who acted out their own abuse on another child can turn into an adult offender. Also, just putting this out there, I was molested as a kid, so this is not an issue of me not getting it. I get it. I understand the trauma this causes, and victims have to deal with it their own way.
The bigger issue is that the choice to get help is not there for most pedophiles. The way the current mental health system is set up, most therapists will turn you in if you go in and acknowledge having these thoughts. We’ve created a situation where even pedophiles who don’t want to hurt children can’t get the help they need to not do it, and that’s a problem. Everything we do to pedophiles, both before and after they perp, encourages them to continue doing it. Go to a therapist and report your urges? The therapist reports you. Get released from jail and want to not commit another crime because you don’t want to hurt people? Not good enough; go back to jail because your conviction means no one will hire you and no one will rent to you, so you can’t register an address with the sex offender registry.
I’m not saying pedophiles are good people or that they shouldn’t be punished if they hurt someone (and I would characterize looking at child porn as hurting someone). I’m saying that our current system really sets them up to fail and perp on kids, and it is benefiting no one (except arguably the prison industrial complex, although that’s an argument for another day).
I agree with everything you’re saying about the general support system. I do think “gold star” pedophiles should have the option of treatment without having their lives completely ruined before they actually do anything.
I’m just saying you shouldn’t waste the sympathy on THIS offender who had the option to face the consequences of his actions constructively but chose to instead violate his victims all over again by killing himself out of cowardice (near a place where children play, even!), refusing to pay the reparations, and denying them any sense of cathartic justice after they had to witness him having celebrity success. He could have gotten help after he was sued for sexual assault by an ex-girlfriend. He could have turned himself in. He got caught because he bragged about having this shit to a girlfriend.
Had he done literally anything to express legitimate remorse through his actions, my view of the situation would be different. But he didn’t. He’s garbage. Let him be remembered as such. Better yet, don’t let him be remembered at all.
That’s an interesting point, insertpunhere, but if he sought help before engaging in any harmful behavior, what could he have been turned in for? There are therapists who specialize in sexual fetishes, and he had the resources to pursue treatment. Hell, I would have volunteered for chemical castration before I downloaded a single file of a CHILD being sexually abused and tortured. I feel compassion for someone who has dark thoughts and urges, but free will means he made a choice to live with it and therefore materially contribute to the harm of young children. Compassion gone. (I also agree with Veronica that there was no clear remorse other than for what he had done to his own life and reputation).
tracking – If I recall correctly, psychiatrists and related social workers are actually required by law to turn in the names of any patients who admit to sexual abuse of children, even if it’s not in reference to actual committed acts but desires and fantasies. It’s one of the few times where I think they’re allowed to violate HIPAA protections of the patient if they feel minors are at risk. It is a problem because it can dissuade people who want to get help and avoid acting on their impulses. On the other hand, it’s kind of obvious as to why they require it.
I’m just not sure if I’d apply it here because Salling had the financial means and previous history of predatory and sexually violent behavior toward adults that suggests he had no interest in rehabilitation.
I’m not a therapist, so I’m not sure of exactly what rule/law they’re following, but most jurisdictions require that mental health professionals report to the authorities if they think their patient is a risk of harm to themselves or others. Since no therapist wants to be known as the one who didn’t turn in a pedophile, it’s a frequent occurrence that someone who goes for treatment is then turned over to the police. The police may not be able to arrest/charge them with anything, but they can certainly dig through their lives and try to do so, not to mention the fact that the pedophile is not getting the help they’re requesting. Pedophilia isn’t a fetish for a therapist to work with. It’s a sexual orientation. And chemical castration doesn’t stop desire, just the ability to act on it, so he could have still enjoyed looking at pictures and videos of children being abused.
@Veronica, I don’t consider sympathy wasted. It’s not a finite resource.
I listened to a podcast that discussed the options available to people who recognize they might be pedophilies when they are teenagers and wish to not act on it. It sounded like there are really, really few options available to these people. The podcast spoke with the organizer of an online group of people who were seeking treatment, but couldn’t find any. I think it is REALLY important that if people want help, that it is available for them, especially if they recognize it before they have taken any action.
I don’t know if Mark did or did not seek help, so I can’t comment on his actions or intentions.
I have no sympathy for Salling, but I would like to suggest a an article regarding the language used when discussing suicide victims. This completely changed my language and I think it is incredibly important to consider.
Language Matters: Committed Suicide vs. Completed Suicide vs. Died by Suicide
Please give that a google.
Interesting, thank you for sharing Pineapple.
Thanks Pineapple, there’s definitely change needed in how we discuss suicide.
While we’re at it, I wonder if we could retire referring to any suicide attempt as a ‘cry for help’? I find it so minimising. Not saying it doesn’t apply in some situations, of course, and I’m not referring to it’s use in the article above, but it is used a little too indiscriminately.
I was drawn to Twitter yesterday, just couldn’t help scrolling with mild disbelief through both the heartfelt RIPs that said things like “Finn and Puck are together again in Heaven” and the kind of vile celebratory posts. Both kind of blew my mind.
I try never to rejoice in someone’s death (I can’t say I never have. I’m human). I try to remember that we are complex creatures who are more than the worst we have ever done. Mark had horrible demons, and the most innocent people suffered because of them. I’m sure his parents and brother have also and continue to suffer as well because of them (just not in the same way), and now they’ve lost him too. Jeering about his death won’t hurt Mark. It won’t repair the damage done. It can only hurt those who loved him.
I would have liked for Mark to have recovered, made restitution, paid his debts, put this behind him, found some way to atone and be a better man. And yet I know the likelihood for reoffending is strong. And I can’t help thinking, well, he won’t hurt another kid at least.
I sympathize with Mark’s loved ones. I have a “friend” who went to prison for the same offense. I thought we were close. He told me he was innocent, and I believed in his innocence almost up to the point when he eventually pled guilty. He’s out of prison now, and contacts me now and again on Facebook. I went through every stage of grief while he was incarcerated, but I keep going back and getting stuck at anger every time he contacts me. I can’t reconcile the friend I loved with the person who did this. I can only imagine if it were a close family member.
I pray for comfort for Mark’s parents, brother, and all those who loved him. I also pray for comfort and healing for all the children represented in the pictures on his computer. They had their innocence brutalized and their lives changed forever, or worse. Wherever they are, I pray for them.
You are very kind and your post is beautiful.
I hope you find peace within yourself in having dealt with and continuing to deal with your friend.
Thank you. I’m not always kind. I’m still very angry. But thank you for saying that. I am trying. You are kind!
And, there is really is no way he could have made restitution. Legal restitution is one thing, but what those kids lost they can never get back.
And, I take it back about “vile celebratory posts.” I do get it. I’m not going to participate, but I do get it,
Your post was so heartfelt and beautifully-written.
I have to say that I’m honestly shocked that this guy would have a fan base.
Well in that case, I guess all the people celebrating his death are just providing some much-needed equilibrium in the universe.
Very well written!
COWARD! I feel bad that his crimes will have no consequences. I feel bad for his victims. He can rot in hell for all I care.
Agreed. Also the idea he never acted yet had that many images…more like never got caught. I’m glad the sick freak is dead. Everyone dies so I dont understand why so many are poo-pooing expressing glee or relief when someone awful dies. Would these same people criticize those who cheered when hitler died? Part of the punishment of being a bad person is not being celebrated when you die and people being glad you’re gone.
One of the things that shocks me the most in this is discovering that you can get as little as 4 years jail time for possessing tens of thousands of images of child abuse…
I know. My friend had six 20-year sentences, and served five years 🙁
What?! This is insane! Ugh, just goes to show how alive and well rape culture is and even children are not immune.
Amy, just curious, but did your friend have to get therapy as well?
If he did, I don’t know about it. He probably did. The charge was six counts of exploitation of a minor (for child porn possession), and he got 20 years for each, and then it was five years served and fifteen years probation. We haven’t talked THAT much since he got out. Just on facebook, and we’ve not talked about anything to do with the case or jail or anything.
I say friend. He was a former boss and a mentor figure. And I would have trusted him, did trust him around my kids and everything. They were never alone with him, thank God. But I really cared about and looked up to the guy for years and this whole thing did a number on me. I stayed loyal to him for a lot longer than I should have because I was just stupid and trusting and loyal and blind and when he told me his side of the story I believed him. I don’t anymore. To be honest if I heard that he died I’m not sure what my reaction would be. I think I would be sad? I’m not sure. I have too much anger.
Thanks Amy and thank you for being so open about this. I was curious since a few comments have talked about therapy. I’m sorry you’ve had to know someone like this and have had to deal with all the emotions that come with it. I can’t even imagine…
I’n horrified by some of the comments on this thread. It’s a tragedy when anyone takes their own life, and no one here has any idea of the life circumstances that may have resulted in him going looking for child porn. Stalling was some mother’s son – people should respect that.
ALL the children in the pictures on his computer, they are some mother’s child too. I have zero sympathy for pedophiles, and I truly hope they rot in the deepest depths of hell.
Did he respect all the children in the photos he possessed??? Respect is earned, he earned none.
I don’t care WHAT anyone’s “life circumstances” are. Bottom line is people should know right from wrong and there is nothing MORE WRONG than what he did. This isn’t a case of a kid from troubled circumstances becoming a drug dealer to make money and help out his family, FFS. THIS IS ABOUT SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN.
I don’t know WTF is going on in this country but it is scary as hell…
+++++ a million, my math is bad so feel free to throw in how many ever zeros it takes Anon33!!
But what happens when the children in these videos or photos grow up, likely fail to get proper mental health treatment, and repeat the cycle of abuse? Should we forget their life circumstance, that they were horrifically abused? Should we just lock them up and throw away the key or celebrate when they die by suicide? Will their lives no longer matter? The problem is a failed system to treat mental health… the system has being failing in our country for DECADES and no one seems to know how to fix it. This is a nasty cycle.
We have a pretty good idea of the life circumstances of the poor children that were brutally raped and abused. I think that trumps any minor angst experienced by a successful, rich, well-liked actor. I do feel for his family, though, but mostly for the victims.
I am appalled that people expect his death to be respected or to have some sympathy. The man is a pedophile. 50,000 + pics and videos of children, some as young as 2…..NO NO NO, he deserves no sympathy, not the tiniest bit.
^This. Nobody knows where are those kids now, some might have committed suicide due to the abuse. But they weren’t famous, so I guess we should all mourn the loss of their abuser because he was too sad to face the consequences of his actions.
Exactly what Scarlett said, 100%.
Do you feel the same about the children that suffered this horrific abuse??? Because they’re all I feel pity for honestly. I don’t like to speak in absolute but I don’t believe that there is ANY life circumstance that justify what he did. SMH.
His death is not a tragedy. He didn’t kill himself out of shame or remorse or a choice to turn his life around. He killed himself out of cowardice and a way to extend his victim’s suffering. (Suicide by a children’s sport field? Really??) He could have faced the consequences and paid the reparations. He could have gone to jail and donated the rest of his estate to his victims. Instead, he ended his life before having to seriously face his family, friends, victims, and general society. Now his victims have to sue the estate and relive the horror of their experiences all over again in a public courtroom They have to fight for the justice they deserved.
He destroyed the value of his life long before he took it. Save your sympathy for somebody who deserves it.
Hitler was also someone’s son. What a strange argument.
PInetree13, my thoughts exactly!
@Jane222He made choices and decisions along the way that led to that end. It is what it is and we don’t need to change the narrative. He was a nasty piece of work with issues in his past. However, momma’s boy also did a whole host of horrible things. No amount of “making him someone’s son” is going to take away for how all of this is abuse and manipulation of power. And as someone point out below, another mark of his power – he’s out on bail for these crimes because he has the power (money) to do so. His mother did not handhold him through his conscious decisions to do all of this. Being someone’s son isn’t a good enough reason to change people’s (and my) feelings about all this.
His victims were powerless, manipulated, trafficked etc. Perhaps people here are reacting to the helplessness and disgust that comes from this.. it’s rather presumptuous to say you’re horrified, since you haven’t considered each of the commenters stories and their reasons for not seeing this as a tragedy? Until you can do that, don’t try to undercut the complexity of this situation with some good ol’ “but but but, he’s someone’s son”.
I still remember when Glee was at its peak back in the day…the original cast was everywhere, Cory Moneith was alive and well and Mark just seemed like a sweet, funny guy who loved the show and his costars. I still can’t believe how everything turned out in the end. What’s worse, some people are actually comparing Mark’s situation to Cory’s.
How is having over 25k pictures and videos of child pornography a misunderstanding?! Is it awful that I’m relieved he’s dead? One less sicko out there, he most likely would’ve done his time then continued with his sick obsession. As long as people will pay for this type of disgusting material children will continue being abused. It makes me sick, I would literally kill someone if they ever touched my daughter, kill them. I can’t think about it, ugh.
i cant believe this rich menace was out on bail awaiting sentence when so many poor POC are sitting in jail for lesser offenses
Amen
He was obviously a very troubled person, I hope he is finally at peace. My heart goes out to his family, as well as the victims & their families (I’m sure this wasn’t the “justice” they were looking for). Horrible situation the whole way around.
I’m gonna sound heatless but it’s not a loss. I feel for the kids who were put in positions of pornography to entertain adults. it’s a huge business and you gotta go to a dark web to get these pics. Some poor kids are filmed doing other kids, some babies are exposed, etc.. i can’t even imagine. Him buying the pics and 50,000 at that were not ‘mistakes”. I am pro electric chair for rapists and pedophiles so when pedo and pervs take their own lives I am not to one to feel sorry for them. Not one iota. I feel sorry for the victims who are powerless and kid traffic is an endless huge issue. As we speak some Syrians refugees are snatched from the streets and sold. As we speak some parents somewhere in India are selling their daughter for a year and more so they can “have a credit” or buy food and this in the supposed aim of “being a maid for the creditors” and these kids/girls usually are molested by the “owner” and sold again to other sh.theads. As we speak hundred of kids are being raped and likely filmed. the video will end up in countless hands and computers.. Salling was just a celebrity but if he was not I guarantee no one will have “feels” for him. We will be saying good riddance.
My thought is that the cycle of abuse needs to be broken. More likely than not, he was sexually abused as a child. I’m not sure how this cycle can be broken. It seems things are becoming exponentially worse with internet porn, where 1 abuser can contribute to the abuse of thousands of children.
Sexual abuse as a child does not directly lead to the committing of sexually abusive acts as an adult. That’s a statistic we need to stop bantering around for the sake of victims. Other factors can increase the risk of such a thing happening (violent homes, poverty, abuse from multiple sources, etc.), but it’s not a guarantee and it’s not fair to suggest it’s inherently cyclical. Most of the studies have also primarily focused on male victims, not so much on female ones, so the statistics are even more ambiguous than we think.
I agree with your ultimate point about needing to stop this kind of behavior before we create victims, but we also have to be careful not to indirectly excuse it. We can empathize with the reasons for the behavior, but we can’t risk sympathizing it. That downplays the suffering of the innocent.
One way to break the cycle is by NOT molesting and abusing others if you were abused yourself………..
Not sorry that I feel nothing but relief. He might have never touched a child but because of his and ppl like him, sick desires, child pornography exists! Children being sexually abused and exploited so he could enjoy himself. Nope. He had the resources to seek help/counseling for his compulsions yet instead downloaded videos, purchased items and fed into it. Judge me all you want but his family is better off and hopefully ALL innocent victims of this mess can heal.
I believe his sentence was to be 4-7 years, which means he would serve less. Considering his crimes, he did the world a favor, because the court system was obviously not putting victims, or their safety, first. See ya.
For the mental health practitioners out there, are you aware of any services for pedophiles? I know certain personality disorders can be difficult to treat, and some therapists are hesitant to take them on. I would imagine it is similar for pedophilia, but I don’t know enough.
There is an obvious problem that exists, that needs treatment. And there is obvious shame that comes with those urges. I doubt a system is in place that effectively treats this type of disorder, as I haven’t heard anything, but would love to hear one exists. All the rock I’ve seen on pedophiles is frankly deeply disturbing and points to an increase ability to hide signs versus true change. This was similarly said about psychopaths until very recently though as well.
Are there treatment options?
More than I care about his suicide, I care that it came this far. That a man with the resources Salling had, did not seek help, or was not told to.
Not a mental health professional but always like to read up on these things. As far as I know, the vast majority of professionals (psychiatrists, psychologists etc.) don’t believe you can treat antisocial personality disorder or pedophilia in the sense that it “gets better”. There are very few programs and conseuqently very few results telling us how therapy affects them at all. Especially long term.
Most therapy programs for pedophiles focus on behavior and controlling your urges and thoughts. They accept that you will most likely always have them but you can manage them. No idea about reliable long-term results to be honest. Antisocial personality disorder is a different beast. I think it’s considered untreatable in adults but I’m not sure.
That’s why pedophiles should be castrated.
I think the main goal with them should always be to protect children. Whether that means therapy, castration or incarceration … I don’t know. The biggest issue is that nobody wants to fund programs that treat pedophiles that haven’t done anything yet. So we wait until they hurt a child. Seems insane.
APD has some treatment options, but buy in to treatment is always a hurdle, and as pathways are followed for years, they become harder to break. Coupled with decreased brain plasticity, it seems the older you get, the harder the treatment.
The latter portion of this article talks about young violent offenders in treatment.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/
Treatment options yes but success…not much. Much like personality disorders there is a wide debate about whether this is treatable or not. The large amount of literature and opinion so far says not. Whether that changes in the future I do not know but that’s generally where the field stands.
I don’t work with adults or extreme pops like this so I’m sure someone has a better answer. But from what I know in the limited studies and work we’ve been exposed to…its generally regarded as lessening the impulse to harm others as the goal. Doesn’t erase the underlying “need”
Nicole, that mimics my thoughts from what I’ve seen and read, as well. I was hoping I was out of the loop, and more treatments were available.
I’ve just recently seen information, I think in the last year, about reduction in antisocial behaviour in adult psychopaths through positive reinforcement. Like, they are still domestic abusers, but the men graduating through that program (and they are considered the more high risk offenders), don’t commit murder, unlike their untreated less high risk corollaries.
So it’s a question of degrees, and perhaps finding the right method.
As disgusting as conversion therapy is, it may be where research needs to start. Especially if the pedophilia as a sexual orientation ideology is correct (I do not believe it is, but it’s seeming to gain traction).
Someone out there loved and liked him. I am not one.
My heart goes to his victims. That’s it.
The fact that we’re debating over whether or not we can celebrate a pedo’s death is disturbing. He’s a pedo, I’m happy he’s dead.
I can’t feel bad for him. Anytime you think about feeling bad for him, I am begging you to think about how many children were hurt to produce all of the evil they found in his possession. A chunk of the evil they found had children as young as 2 or 3. I feel nothing but contempt for this guy and I hope he spent his last months on Earth hurting as much as he hurt others.
I doubt anyone feels sad for him. But for all those affected by the choices he made.
Unfortunately there are people on this thread minimizing what he’s don’t and questioning if it’s as bad as the people who created the images. I don’t understand how that’s even a question but here we are. I need to get off this thread because it’s making me feel sick. The people questioning and minimizing have clearly never had to deal with the repercussions of sexual abuse
I am thinking about those kids. I can feel badly for more than one person at a time. I am in no way minimizing what he did. It was horrible, and he deserved prison time and to be forced to pay restitution to any identifiable victim as well as to organizations that work with sexual abuse victims. Frankly, I think they could have wiped him out and used every last dime to pay restitution.
Having said that, I do feel badly for him. What a terrible life to live, to want to do something that hurts children. That’s incredibly sad.
Also, sexual abuse victim here. We’re not a monolithic group. People do what they need to do to grieve and work through their feelings. I’ve chosen to forgive the person who molested me because that was what was best for me. Recognizing that he was hurting helped me to heal. It also means that I can’t look at someone like Salling and see a monster. I can loathe what he did and still recognize that he was a person and be sad that he is dead in the way that I feel sad whenever I hear about a death. I made a decision when I started working through my trauma that I was not going to let what happened to me change who I was because that just meant being molested had stolen one more thing away. That is not a choice that anyone else has to make, but it is also not a choice that makes me weak, or not an advocate for victims of sexual assault, or not a victim myself.
I’m glad you found a way to help you heal Pun. My experience was much different as far as healing than yours but I see we’ve both found peace, which is what’s important. I think it’s very valid that you feel the way you do about this situation, just like I think is valid that I do. There’s no right or wrong answer as far as how people feel about his suicide. I do think there’s a wrong or right answer as far as whether what we did was as bad as the people producing the images.
He will be murdered in prison anyways so better kill yourself.
He even had footage of a 3 year old girl being sexually abused on his laptop. Hope he suffered while hanging next to the river. Sicko.
I’d have set him on fire if he asked me to.
After all the uproar about celebrities like Bryan Cranston and Matt Damon trying to apply philosophical opinions to #metoo stories and coming off like callous dinkheads… same thing applies to this case. Not wanting to celebrate someone’s death? Feeling for his family? The difficulties of suicide? Nah. Dude was a sexual psychopath and he deserved to die. End of. Being the nice guy here doesn’t do anything but neglect his victims and I promise you his victims and the children in all 50,000 pieces of pornography he had are ruined for life. They are living mangled lives for the rest of their lives.
Having been molested as a child over and over and raped as a young adult, I had mixed emotions yesterday about this whole situation. Is it the fact that it was him in particular, or is it the fact that for so many of us that have been abused it stirs up truly raw emotions? I’m sad we have to live in a world of pedophilia. I’m sad because I will never believe there’s a cure for it. Castration doesn’t “work” for me. They will still have a mind, memories, a computer, hands etc. It may be naive and simplistic, but it’s sad that it all has to come down to death. I neither feel good or bad about his death. His family will have to come to terms just like the thousands abused everyday, this is how he was and try to move on the best anyone can. It’s horrifying when reality hits. You can move on, I’m living proof. It can and may be the hardest thing to do. I’ve had the same job for 19 years, bills paid, roof over my head, never done drugs, etc. All these stereotypes just aren’t true with me and many, many survivors. Although I will tell you, the little girl who was abused and has been locked away, certainly screamed yesterday. It is always there, always stays with you. Survivors..fight the fight. I stand with you. You are not alone.
You are incredibly strong. I’m sorry that happened to you.
Thank you Lori, I appreciate it.
What a beautiful post. Hugs from someone who survived DV as a child <3
Thank you SilverUnicorn. Here is a big hug back at you. I read your posts on here daily lol. So thank you. ;o)
@ Betty that was such a thoughtful post. I am a survivor of sexual abuse as a child as well as emotional abuse at the hands of family and I want to tell you that you’re awesome and strong and to thank you for writing those kind words. The pain never goes away but knowing that I’m living my best life now makes me feel a whole lot better. Like you said, keep fighting the good fight y’all. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel, whatever that means for you ❤️
You know what..you get a great big old hug and kiss. I appreciate your kind words. I was actually starting to cry as I wrote it. Thank you for taking the time to read it. I am certainly happy that you are living the best life now. Just make sure your light stays lit! Otherwise I’ll be here. Take care my friend.
Beautiful post. I’m crying for that little girl and for you, today. Thank you for you.
Shambles don’t make me cry. The unbelievable support in here is wonderful and so comforting. We’ll all hug then maybe partake in an alcoholic beverage? Lol.. We are women, hear us roar damnit! Thank you Shambles, I’m pretty sure I thank you for you as well. :o).
Its just sad. Its sad that he made those choices, and that there are many others around the world making the same choices right now. Its all scary and sad, and I feel sad for his family.
How I feel for the individuals who he collected videos of.. it goes beyond sadness, its a horrible type of sadness where its mixed with anger and despair and makes you want to scream in a primal way.
This is such a tricky one… on the one hand, I know, very well, that to attempt/commit suicide does NOT mean a person is weak/ a coward/ any of the nasty things often said about it. I’ve known friends who were very near to that point, I had a friend who did actually try. (Thank god, thank god, she is alive and really well, and happier than I’ve ever known her these days.) But in this one case, all I could think was “coward”. I felt such blistering rage that he had avoided paying his victims, or serving any time at all.
And yet- I feel for his family, friends, and co-stars. I feel for their loss, and respect their right to grieve the man they loved- even though, to me it seems clear that by his own actions he had shown himself to be a very different person from that man. If he ever was the person they thought they knew, they lost him a long time ago.
The one thing I’d say is- I hate, hate HATE that Matthew Morrison paid tribute to Mark using a picture of Cory. Yes, they’re both dead by their own actions, one deliberate, one inadvertent. But the circumstances could not have been more different. By all accounts, Cory Monteith was a lovely man- kind, gentle, genuinely nice to anyone who met him, and a good person. He lost his battle against his own addiction in the end, but he had at least tried to fight it. He had spoken out about the issue multiple times in the hopes of helping other people fighting the same fight, AND quietly did a lot of charity work with related causes. He does deserve to be remembered, and he does NOT deserve to be lumped in with Mark and his awful-all-around situation.
Your last paragraph about Cory is perfectly said and I agree 100%. I can’t believe Matthew of all people, and anyone else would compare Mark & Cory’s deaths. It’s beyond disrespectful.
I want feel bad that this was a waste of a life as they say, he was only 30 and like what did you come on this earth to do dude? That’s what you want your legacy to be? Then I remember he was a most likely psychopath with no sort of capacity for compassionate feelings towards others. As much as I would like to think suicide shows remorse for what he did, it most likely was just an escape hatch for punishment he didn’t think he deserved in the first place, or because he didn’t want to be subjected to what reportedly happens to pedos in jail (irony of ironies that it’s the same thing that happens to abused children).
I am shaken by how so many of you are defending him. Making excuses for him.
I’m not just shaken. I’m disgusted.
There is no defense or excuse.
..
How is it that Salling was convicted, but Pete Townshend was arrested and released for essentially the same thing?
Well. Perhaps, if Townshend were a U.S. citizen and had committed the crimes here, he would have received a similar sentence.
That was a really weird case. I still can’t make heads or tails of it.
I read Daily Mail, and several comments related to how lenient Great Britain is on pedophiles, but I’m not sure how accurate that is. I think it may be the “I’m Pete Townshend” defense.
Wow the hate on here for this human is just overwhelmingly disturbing! Does anyone think he actually CHOSE to live this way? What an awful, dark, depressing way to function in his everyday life. Of course his actions were horrendous, but I can’t help but think that someone knew enough to get him the help he so desperately needed. This whole situation was a massive fail on the part of his family, coworkers and friends. He was obviously crying out for help but where does a pedo go seek treatment without judgement? I’m not even sure if a pedo can be rehabilitated, but I can’t help but feel sorrow for his family. We don’t actually know if he was molested as a child or born with these thoughts in his psyche. Agreed it’s a horrible situation all the way around, but a little more compassion would be nice for his family and the victims sake.
So it was everyone’s fault but his. Not buying it. You don’t know whether he was feeling anything at all about his actions. Did he make a statement? He committed countless crimes and the victims were children. We’re not talking 2 or 3 pics and a video. That would be terrible as well. But the sheer number and the children behind it makes me not feel bad for him. I don’t believe I need to feel sympathy for every human on earth. Some just suck.
Perhaps I missed the memo: did anyone point a gun to his head to download child porn? No?
He had two choices: to possess this material or not to. Guess what he chose? And you can’t even paint it as a slip, an error in judgment, like his lawyer tried to. Not with the amount of porn he was caught having.
ETA: littlemissnaughty beat me up to it.
Abuse IS a choice.
That’s actually what is taught to abuse survivors during therapy.
Yes, I do.
Mental illness and/or perverted proclivities are not free passes to gain forgiveness and avoid punishment. He was not insane, he knew the difference between right and wrong, he was not operating under a psychosis when he downloaded and sexually gratified himself to thousands of instances of child rape.
When you realize you are contributing to the rape and abuse of other humans, you have a choice. Get help or continue. He chose. Society has no moral requirement of forgiveness and compassion. Selfish, weak and deplorable. Nobody killed him. He did that himself because, I suspect, he was petrified of spending time in prison.
He CHOSE to gratify himself with images of abuse 50,000 times. He CHOSE to gratify himself with videos of abuse 600 times. That’s 50,600 instances of abuse of CHILDREN he chose to ENJOY each and every time, participating in their abuse. F**** him, hope there’s a nice toasty seat for him somewhere.
I am not sad for him, but am sad for his loved ones. And I believe he should have lived and paid for his crimes spending years in jail. Penance for his sins.
I hope he finds peace, because i think someone with such a horrific mental disorder must suffer a whole lot. It must be horrible to have such disgusting feelings and urges.
But to rejoice on his death… i cannot and will not. It’s beyond me. I fear karma and words have power. Do not wish to another what you wouldnt want for yourself.
Anybody defending this garbage or saying we shouldn’t celebrate a persons death are ugh don’t even know what. I was from the age of 2 till 17 molested, sodimized, groped, made to watch and raped and so much more. My mother let my uncles and her male friends do this to me for money. I live with this everyday of my life. I have a hard time being intimate and showing emotions. I don’t trust people. I have full on panic attacks that come out of no where. As a teenager I tried to commit sucide. I feel suffocated by any touch even from my children. I live my life everyday as if I am just watching it from above without fully being able to feel happy ever. This is what a person who like me goes thru everyday of their lives. We the victims get life sentences of pain and this garbage was going to get 4-7 seven years. I don’t feel sorry for him or his family as he wasn’t a person but a monster.
Im… there arent words to express.
Im so sorry for what you’ve been through and I hope you heal one day. I truly do.
@Chingona – I’m so sorry about what was done to you, the adults in your life as a child sound like awful people.
Also I understand exactly what you mean, because it’s how I myself feel. Other people may be more forgiving than I am but as far as I’m concerned, Mark Salling doesn’t deserve the whitewash death gives most people, he did the world and its children a favour by offing himself. We’re not required to be nice or compassionate about him just because he’s dead.
Thank you for sharing this and I’m so sorry. I think sometimes people go too far with their “compassion” and hippie dippy bs towards ever single human being. There are those whose actions, to me, disqualify them. There are those who are just absolute scum. Nobody here feels bad for Harvey Weinstein but this guy who contributed to the abuse and endless pain of countless children (toddlers!) gets the empathy card. I said above I’m not celebrating anyone’s death but that is mostly selfish because …. karma. You know.
Agree. I’m so sorry for what you went through. I feel your pain…the justice system needs to care more for the victims.
Chigona, I am here for you voice, and your strength to share this. I hope you can find pride in that strength, I know it is inspiring to others, to me.
It’s not child pornography, it’s “child sexual abuse images,” if I recall, is the term they’re trying to use now. Because calling it porn sort of lumps it together with others, like it’s a variety, instead of what it is-crime evidence.
We should be upset at the suicide because like others said, it’s not fair to the victims. It’s like a final criminal act. 1) pedophiles have a hard time in prison. Other criminals do not take kindly to them and they have a high rate of being abused and violated, 2) this guy was going out on his own terms. He basically told everyone F off. He showed his images to ex-girlfriends. He had 25k images and 600 videos. On three different pieces-hard drive, USB, laptop. This guy wasn’t a ‘little’ sick. That’s more photos and videos than anyone has of anything. He was a predator. For anyone that says ‘oh, they’re just images,’ aside from the fact that this means there are like 30,000 different instances of proven abuse, child sexual abuse images are criminalized also because it helps identify predators. 85% of people who download or view have already offended. The rest are on an escalating slope to offend. And they never offend once. Predators are actively seeking to offend, they cannot control their urge.
And with that many images, this guy may have distributing or profiting off distributing. He was likely part of a network of predators because that stuff didn’t come from nowhere. There’s a whole part of the web with these monsters.
One person, 50k images and 600 videos. One person.
This makes me cry, those poor innocent children. My empathy is with them.
I can’t imagine someone thinking they could show me something as sick as this. I don’t know if I could contain my anger…seriously I have grand children and I can’t imagine. .
Good riddance, he stopped wasting oxygen.
I don’t care if it sounds callous, I have no sympathy for paedophiles. Sorrynotsorry but your ‘mental disorder’ that inflicts pain and exploitation on children, gets nothing from me.
Coward pedophile.
I feel sorry for the ones that loved him for all the heartache he caused them during his life, and how he ended it.
I feel very sorry for the children that were photographed. I am angry that these photos were so easily accessible to deviants like him then, and probably still are accessible online now.
I don’t, however, feel sorry there is one less sick, disgusting individual out there looking at cp.
I am pleading with some of you to look into the reality of the statistics behind “cyclical abuse.” Because it’s not inherently cyclical. It’s not inevitable. Abuse, like any other behavior, is a choice. It can be influenced by factors such as unstable upbringing, previous abuse, or other factors, but that’s still not a guarantee of adult behavior. There’s not a definite pattern, which means we have to stop focusing on excuses for why people behave the way they do and start recognizing the personal agency in it.
I say this, not as demand that you laugh at this man’s death, but for the sake of his victims, for the sake of victims on this thread. They have a right to believe that they can get through this, that their futures aren’t written in stone. They have a right to believe their futures won’t be sullied by somebody else’s actions.
Absolutely correct Veronica. Thank you.
Agree.
Zero sympathy for him, only for the poor babies victimized by his disgusting desires. 50k images is NOT a “mistake” and it’s certainly not one that can be atoned for.
His death made me read Berenstain Bears “Learn About Strangers” at bedtime last night. Not something you even think of reading to your 2 and a half year old.
He can rot.
Something fishy must have been happening on that glee set. Seriously all the kids that came out of that show don’t seem to be well adjusted.
I feel sorry for the victims and for his family. It must be horrifying to realize your family member is a monster. But he is sick and in one of the worst ways … so no tears for him. Good riddance, actually.
I only watched Glee for about a season before I lost interest and the show became too ridiculous for me to deal with. But I remember Mark Salling’s character Puck and his mohawk. I have never been sexually abused so I have no experience in that realm and so I don’t know how to feel about any of this. Horrified at what Mark did, that he was compelled to satisfy some sick need and devastated to know so many people put out material of abused children for others to consume online. I feel sorry for the abuse victims, how they ended up in the position of being photographed that way and having their image circulated online for other sick people’s pleasure. I feel sorry for his family, that they have to reconcile the person they thought they knew with someone who was very mentally unwell and acting out on his perverted compulsions. I feel sorry for his Glee cast members too since it’s so hard to process what their former friend did with the person they thought they knew. However do I feel sorry for Mark? I don’t know. More like pity I suppose? Incomprehension at best. I wonder if he understood what he did was wrong or was his sense of right and wrong so warped he didn’t understand what he was doing was vile and depraved.
I read somewhere the reason he was reported to authorities was because he showed the images to a girlfriend/woman and she was so disturbed she called the cops on him. Huge kudos to whoever she was.
I understand his coworkers/friends/family are going to be conlifcted. Despite the horrifying things he did, this was still someone they talked to, goofed around with, shared lunch with, laughed with, confided with etc. I can imagine its hard to let go of that side of him. But I also am going to side eye the hell of Matthew Morrison for captioning his picture with the angel emoji. What Mark Salling did was far from angelic.
Personally, I feel no loss for this man. I will not miss him in the slighest. But Im going to try and remain as respectful as i can and not gloat over his death for the people in his life that have to deal with this mess.
We live on a planet bulging with people and huge problems. When a person who contributes to the rape and abuse of children is removed either by law or by personal choice, I am ok with that.
He had a choice, several, and he made them.
Word.
I feel for his family and his victims, but I can’t bring myself to feel much for him. His former co-stars are being way too nice.
Wasn’t part of his plea deal that he would have to name names? I wonder how many Hollywood A types are breathing a sigh of relief because of this.
My heart breaks that there’s so much evil in this world. Religious people see it as the sinful nature of a fallen world. Non-religious biologists see us as primate predators, in other words given towards violence against weaker beings. I don’t know how to interpret life, but I just know I can’t stand how much evil and pain there is and how many innocent babies and children are targeted by monsters.
–This sick coward knew there was nothing he could do to fix himself. I sometimes wish more people who can’t be helped, who would victimize the innocent, would just off themselves. I wish all the serial killers, terrorists, child predators and murderers would do the world a favor and end their existence before they do damage to the innocent. So I’m glad he’s gone. Too bad about whatever damaged him in the first place too. But he stopped some of the ongoing cycle of torment he was participating in by partaking in these images of horror.
Too much hand wringing on this thread about how people have worded their responses. Yeah, I know, words matter…blah, blah, blah.
He didn’t even have the courage to pay for his crimes. I feel for the people who knew his good side.
Man, I hate when people defend monsters by saying things like “he who is without sin” and don’t judge, you’ve done wrong too. I’m all, “pretty sure I didn’t download kiddie porn, victimizing thousands of innocent children, pretty sure I didnt ever beat a girl friend half to death” meh think I’m pretty okay to judge this asshole while I covet my neighbors husband through my kitchen window.
True. I mean, sure I’m not without sin,
but I never do that kind of sin~
I’m not celebrating this man’s death, but I’d like to know WHY people are saying “poor him” when he was an abuser of some of the most innocent, helpless members of our society. Does the fact that people enjoyed him pretending to be someone else for a living somehow give him a pass? And can we talk about the hypocrisy of making excuses for him based on his body of work? Because I don’t see anybody here feeling bad for the scum that is Woody Allen or Harvey Weinstein simply because we like projects they were involved with. This is the seediest element of celebrity worship culture: the FANS who make excuses for disgusting behavior for some, but want to clutch their pearls when that disgusting behavior is exhibited by others who don’t get that same pass.
For the record, this guy had 50,000 pictures and videos featuring children between the ages of 3 and 5 being sexually abused. Again, I’m not celebrating his death, but I would never in a million fucking years refer to him as “the poor guy” like so many confused commenters here are doing. If he wasn’t an actor, most of you would have no sympathy. The double standard is fucking troubling.
If you defend or make excuses for pieces of shit like this guy because you liked a TV show he was on, then you’re a hypocrite for bashing Woody Allen and Harvey Weinstein. Abusers are abusers, point blank, period. There is no special exception for an actor or actress because you loved a show or movie they were in. They are all bad, they are all wrong, they all DESERVE harsh judgment. What this guy did perpetuates the sexual abuse of CHILDREN. This is possibly the most disturbing shit I’ve seen on this site.
There should be death sentences for pedophiles world wide! My mother is a psychologist and told me they can not be healed! It is a sickness and it can not be cured.
Is it a cry for help? It is odd, that sentence.
What kind of help did he get from downloading those sick images of children getting abused?
yeah, whatever. ..
my sympathy has a limit and all of that going to be those poor victims.