Every year in February, The Hollywood Reporter does a series called The Brutally Honest Oscar Voter Ballot. THR usually starts publishing their pieces when Oscar voting is done, and they try to sit down with Oscar voters from various voting-bloc guilds, like the actors’ guild, the writers’ guild, etc. It’s honestly one of my favorite things, even though the voters are usually terrible and vote in terrible ways. In any case, it’s an enormously popular series, and now other media outlets are just blatantly copying the format. There’s also an issue with these early Oscar-voter pieces because we’re still in the voting period! Oscar voting hasn’t closed yet. So these pieces may influence how other Oscar voters vote. In which case, I consider it a gossip-service to critique the judgments being made by these anonymous voters. You can see the IndieWire piece here, and the Daily Beast piece here. Some highlights (and SPOILERS in case you haven’t seen all of the nominated films)
Best Picture.
IndieWire voter: “Both “Three Billboards” and “Get Out” were very original and fun! They made me laugh. Much-needed distraction right now. I had an odd experience with “Darkest Hour.” I enjoyed it while I was watching it, but afterwards, when I found out the subway sequence was totally invented, it diminished the whole movie for me. I just didn’t like “Dunkirk” and “Lady Bird” that much. “Dunkirk” was too impersonal (oddly, “Darkest Hour” told the Dunkirk story in a better way) and “Lady Bird” was overrated. While “The Florida Project” was too controversial, too dark and edgy, too indie, it’s a really good film. And not Oscar fodder. I have no idea why “Mudbound” didn’t get nominated for best film or best director. It deserved it above “Lady Bird” and “Phantom Thread.”Daily Beast voter: “What I was going to vote for was I, Tonya, but clearly that didn’t make the list. So it’s pretty much a tie for me between Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri and The Shape of Water. Three Billboards is a beautifully crafted, excellently written piece that has such extreme drama with comedy that it’s a perfect combination. I saw The Shape of Water for a second time and really appreciated not only the visuals and the story, but the actual fairy tale aspects of it. There were things I missed the first time where I thought the ending was a little strange, but on second viewing, it made a lot more sense and the whole thing was a fairy tale from beginning to end… At the moment, I am leaning toward The Shape of Water.”
Best Actor
IndieWire voter: “All are deserving. Even if I wasn’t crazy about the films. Gary Oldman did an amazing job. And he was barely recognizable as Gary Oldman and totally convincing. (Although I thought John Lithgow was also an excellent Churchill on “The Crown”!)Daily Beast voter: “It’s absolutely Gary Oldman. Ironically, I’ve seen Darkest Hour five times and have absolutely enjoyed it five times. The only reason I don’t think it will win Best Picture is because it’s too safe. The Shape of Water is very slick, but there’s no risk involved in Darkest Hour… His performance not only was absolutely incredible, but he managed to work with that makeup as if it was his own skin.
Best Actress:
IndieWire voter: “They were all good choices. I am glad Margot Robbie got a nod. She was excellent in — in my view — a very underrated film. While both Sally Hawkins and Frances McDormand were utterly compelling, Frances will squeak by. Probably due to her age and the depth and breadth of her career. Sally will have more opportunities going forward. But damn, practically an entire film without speaking is very impressive and challenging.Daily Beast voter: “I love all three—Margot Robbie [I, Tonya], Sally Hawkins [The Shape of Water], and Frances McDormand, but when it comes down to the performances, Frances played it so pitch-perfect.
Random thoughts from the Daily Beast voter:
On Get Out: “I’m a bit confused by Get Out. Not by understanding the film—I understood the film fine—I’m just not 100% sure why they made that one the social statement of the year. I thought it was an intelligent, sophisticated psychological horror film. But I’m completely confused by why it got all that attention. I actually got more out of the Scream movies as far as intellectual twists on horror films, and they’re making Get Out as this huge statement, and I don’t quite see the depth of it that other people are seeing.”On Dunkirk: “I hope it’s not Dunkirk. Between Darkest Hour and Dunkirk, I didn’t understand Dunkirk. It’s a fine battle picture, but it’s very, very confusing. They constantly switch between night and day. I wasn’t familiar with Dunkirk in my history, and I didn’t know it’s in France. And they never explained it.
[From IndieWire & The Daily Beast]
Just my opinion: both of these voters are complete idiots. Imagine having the audacity to sit there and admit that you had watched Dunkirk and didn’t even understand that they were in FRANCE. Imagine being so ignorant of World War II history in the first place, and then you watch the movie and don’t even take a few minutes to, like, read the Wikipedia page on Dunkirk before or after. The same Daily Beast voter goes on and on about how Martin McDonagh should have been nominated for Best Director too, because Three Billboards apparently really hit a nerve with these Oscar voters – people love it when a violent, stupid, racist, n-word-spouting murderer with a badge learns a “lesson.” Obviously, that’s the same voter who devalues a film like Lady Bird too. Ugh. *bangs head against wall*
Promotional stills courtesy of IMDB.
Hoo boy, would you admit you were SO confused by Dunkirk? Moron.
I mean, they also thought that the Scream movies made more of a social statement than Get Out.
I don’t necessarily blame someone for not having much knowledge of an event. If you didn’t learn about it, you didn’t. But I DO blame them for not coming home and going on the internet if they were still so befuddled about what they just saw. Don’t blame the filmmaker and go “Durrrr…..”
No, the person says that Scream has more “intellectual twists on horror films”, not that it makes a social statement. I see their point… if Get Out was a movie about twisting horror film stereotypes, which it isn’t, but they seem to think that’s why people raved about it. It’s hard to understand where this person is coming from, but considering their statements about Dunkirk, I imagine it’s one of those who likes their movies fairly literal.
In fairness, I’ve been equally stupid before. But I felt the appropriate shame levels. I didn’t advertise my stupidity, let alone blame the injured party for being too smart for me.
They don’t get why Get Out was the social statement of the year?! So you didn’t actually get the movie.
I won’t be surprised when Get Out wins nothing. Hollywood loves awarding awards to mediocre odes to their city (La La Land) but have a hard time with movies that are a stark critique about them. Remember Get Out was for people who consider themselves liberal white “allies”. I’m sure more people are uncomfortable about the movie than not.
Speaking of Get Out they are showing the movie this Monday for free in 100 theaters for the one year anniversary.
It’s going to get original screenplay. For sure.
It has a shot at best director for a number of reasons, BUT screenplay is a lock.
I hope so but I lack faith in oscar voters
Nicole- thank you! You said what was I was going to, in a better way than I could say it.
Yeah… This person has completely missed the point of Get Out. They think it is just an intelligent horror? That’s it??? I mean the relevance and timing of the film and all the fine points it makes are incredible. Scream is not in the same ballpark. What a moron. And I’m sure the Academy is full of them! They like patting themselves on the back not examining their own hidden racism.
Exactly why Peele said this movie was for liberals. They are SO good at hiding their racism. I say this as a left leaning person.
Scream is a B horror camp film. What an insult. Exactly why peele made this movie…these voters are acting like the gf before we find out her whole family is a racist murdering clan
What’s especially inane about that person’s statement is that there were a million think pieces, reviews, and discussions about the social statement of the film in all forms of media from all corners of the country. If they didn’t get it upon first viewing, did they live in a cave for the rest of the year??
Well I did get Get Out but I just didn’t like it much. His friend stole the show though, I laughed so hard at his comic relief. To me it wasn’t a horror film but a suspenful thriller. I just want Peele to win for obvious reasons including his creativity.
You can not like Get Out (which is fine) but still GET it. This person sounds like they didn’t even understand it
Get out was amazing but don’t call la la land mediocre. It’s just a trend to call everything over rated nowadays, la la land was deserving of all the praise.
Not to me though. I have to admit to watching and going So? Cute but nothing more. Not award worthy for me. But it isn’t the kind of movie like Mother! that just makes me mad.
I can appreciate other’s love for the movie and understand why.
Really? I thought La La Land was crap. One of the worst, most mediocre, boring films I’ve seen in years. I tried to like it, I really did; but I barely made it through it. The storyline was shallow and basic, the dialogue was basic, the singing and dancing were awful, the songs were largely forgettable, and so on and so forth. I cannot believe Emma won an Oscar for it or that it was a contender for best film. And I LOVE musicals. I mean The Greatest Showman barely made a stir and it has actually talented singers and dancers in it. How did this incredibly average film get all of this love and all of these accolades? I will never understand. If Judy Garland saw that crap she would roll over in her grave. I know taste is subjective and I know people obviously loved it but for the life of me I cannot understand why.
Landry, La La Land WAS mediocre.
Lady Bird was just nothing special, but Call Me By Your Name is a beautiful well acted piece that will really make you think what Love is really about, I hope this film is not iognored.
Yeah me too. It was a very well acted mediocre film. And I feel like I saw the same premise a million times.
Agreed. I was just… unmoved by it. And I WAS 18 in 2002, haha.
CMBYN was my favourite movie of all of the Best Picture noms. It was just beautiful.
Agreed. Saoirse Roman is really good, as is Laurie Metcalf (live her in ANYTHING). But I failed to see what was so exceptional about Lady Bird. Phantom Thread…while I love DDL, it left me falling asleep three time in it! Slow and boring. CMBYN was leaps and bounds above both, and the acting was great. Personally, I think that little 6 year old in Florida Project, Brooklynn something?, should’ve gotten a nod for best actress. That kid was phenomenal! Sally Hawkins, acting with her eyes and body, no words in the while film….LOVED her. And I really liked that movie, too (esp. Michael Shannon! Lol)
This. I was a 17yo girl in 2003, and Lady Bird was just meh for me… but I am head over heels in love with Call Me By Your Name. I think it’s just about perfect.
Thank you. I thought Lady Bird was well-acted but that’s about it. I wanted to love it but just didn’t.
I thought call me by ypur name was terribly boring, sorry
I liked LADY BIRD quite a bit and I’m glad a film about a teen girl is getting Oscar recognition (although I suspect if indie darling Greta Gerwig weren’t involved, it wouldn’t have made the impact it has) but…I’m so entirely in love with CALL ME BY YOUR NAME that I’m already feeling heartbroken that it’s probably getting passed over by the Academy.
I’ve seen CMBYN 5 times and I’m going back for a 6th when James Ivory comes to do a talk about it at my local rep theatre. I cannot get enough of Elio and Oliver.
It will likely win Best Adapted Screenplay, but that’s about it.
I thought Ladybird was overrated as well.
The only films that hit a chord with me were Get out and Call Me by your name.
Also Mudbound should have gotten a best pic and Director nod over Ladybird.
Sorry not sorry!
Totally agree with Dunkirk & Lady Bird (which I think is being heavily pushed excuse of its women leads heavy aspect, yeah I went there) being overrated and by no means were they bad movies, there were just better films. 2017 was actually a good movie year.
Those voters are stupid. The only thing that I agree with is that Mudbound and The Florida Project were snubbed.
How can you say that you understand Get Out and then go on to prove that you didn’t understand anything about it? Comparing it to the Scream films. B-tch Bye.
Ladybird is rated just fine. I just didn’t like it save for Aunt Jackie’s performance. Saoirse has put in better performances and I just did not like the story. I found myself rolling my eyes at all the hipster nonsense.
Frances should not win by the logic above but she will end up winning because of the logic above. I can see so many voters thinking that way and giving it to her. That film was a piece of sh-t and I really dislike that it has made it this far. I have never seen a bad Frances performance. She was fine in the film but not better than Sally.
I actually like the Phantom Thread alot but can certainly see why it is not getting that much love.
agree with you on all accounts.
These people are complete Idiots. I am a Caribbean person and I know more about WW2 than these people and they have ‘fabulous’ jobs and Oscar voters which makes matters worse.
This is why I think Academy Awards a a bunch of BS and Hollywood are c***suckers. I am just about done with. It will take a miraculous recovery for them to win back my heart for the film industry.
Yes.
…but as my history teacher in HS said, history should never be passed down with boredom. I’m a huge history buff and know my history but……Dunkirk was a boring movie IMO and for all of the people “bragging” on here about knowing their history, the critics facts versus the film, the film gets many facts wrong. People check out when the film seems confusing with backwards time lapses on top of it. Facts and history get list when the film is muddled and Dunkirk had bad time frame issues and many invented facts.
Good to know.
I love history, and if I know a subject well I am distracted by how wrong it is. I liked Dunkirk ok. Didn’t LOVE it but in movies like this, I would expect better with facts.
Lady Bird is overrated and it will be forgotten in a year. Call Me By Your Name and Get Out are much better.
I think I, Tonya and Margot Robbie in that role were highly overrated too
Dunkirk part killed me.Interestingly enough why people generally dislike about Dunkirk is exactly wahy I love it so much. It is impersonal and brutal, just like war. Nolan could have chosen to zero in to one or two soldiers but then it would be their story. The movie is about Dunkirk and it is my favorite war movie because of that.
My favorite movie of the year is definitely The Shape of Water but I would be very happy if Get Out or Phantom Thread won as well. Phantom Thread was a huge surprise to me.
I am so with you on this. It is a perfect movie and I loved it. In addition to what you said, Nolan also took a big risk by making a movie without the standard 3 acts. And i loved it. It takes you right into the chaos of war and defies the idea there are supposed to be heroes in the war. Well, Nolan has my vote for best movie of the year
I am so with you on this. It is a perfect movie and I loved it. In addition to what you said, Nolan also took a big risk by making a movie without the standard 3 acts. And i loved it. The execution was superb, I was on the enge of my seat the entire movie going though all kinds of feeli gs without the baggage of extensive character background intros or explanatory conversations about the meani g of life and hoorors of death. It takes you right into the chaos of war and defies the idea there are supposed to be heroes in the war. Well, Nolan has my vote for best movie of the year.
Yup, Dunkirk was a great cinematic experience. All soldiers in Dunkirk had back stories and people that waited for them. We don’t even know their names. They are just statistics.
I am mostly very happy by the nominations this year. I would be happy Dunkirk won as well. Even Lady Bird win would make me happy. Unfortunately of all movies Three Billboards, one of my least favorites, is going to win it.
Agreed! I loved Dunkirk and the emotions that the film stirred up. It was truly an ensemble film that played out like snapshot of a moment in time in World War II.
While I liked three billboards, to me it will be forgettable in a year. Same with Darkest night.
I really love Get Out and am so happy that it received nods as it does reflect the problems of our society and how easy it is for white people to say they are liberal but still hold hate in their hearts.
These reviewers obviously would love oscars so white to happen again as they are backing a movie that spouts racist terms like they are nothing and violence against women, and they support the all white nominated cast members to win.
See….didn’t find it brutal at all….rather found it to be a very vanilla & a removed war film with little emotional attachment. The very first scene of Saving Private Ryan I almost walked out because it was that emotional for me, it was a stark, violent, emotionally attached scene and you knew nothing about the characters. Dunkirk, I had zero emotional attachment to anything in the film, not a single scene.
I get the history challenged person not understanding Dunkirk. We did not learn about it in school. I read about it later at university, only after my instructor suggested we educate ourselves. LOL Texas schools are lacking. Universities as well. I learned more from outside reading.
I liked Shape of Water and Get Out.
I just no longer get excited about the Oscars.
Good God, Dunkinrk was a turning point in WWII and some schools in the US bypass it?
You’re talking about a school system that white washes it’s own racist beginnings or doesn’t teach anything about slavery or Native Americans. Because all the textbooks come from Texas. I certainly learned about this but that’s because I went through a high school curriculum created in Europe.
Really?
We talked most about the events in Yugoslavia ( which are usually completely ignored by the west), but even with that we mentioned big events such as Dunkirk.
This isn’t surprising. I didn’t learn about Dunkirk in HS, only in college (it also helped that my primary history prof is a military historian.) I think for most Americans WWII ‘really’ starts with Pearl Harbor, which was after Dunkirk.
The US secondary education system ignores a lot of its own history, never mind the rest of the world’s. If you get something outside the textbooks it’s probably because your teacher has an actual interest in it, and isn’t just teaching from the textbooks.
I am Brazilian. So let’s pretend that I didnt study WW2 or it was not covered well.
I recently saw Dunkirk and it was pretty obvious to me in the very beginning of the movie that it is in France. OMG…
Texas is trying to get the slave trade renamed as the “Atlantic Triangle Trade.” Does that put it in perspective for you?
@Veronica. I’m French and that’s how we learned about the slave trade. “Commerce triangulaire” in French, but yeah, we didn’t ignore the facts that it was slavery.
@Lèna Interesting. In America, it’s always been explicitly referred to as the Atlantic Slave Trade because of the historical struggle to acknowledge how race has polarized the country into modern day. Altering the name to leave out that crucial reality is considered by many to be an attempt to suppress the reality of the history of how African American peoples have been consistently degraded and oppressed for the better part of America’s history.
@Veronica Shields I’ve had to think about it and it’s true we also call it “Black slave trade” and I asked my 14 sister about it and she is learning it as Atlantic Triangle Trade too. And you really make a great point. I will look more into it and talk about it with my little sisters so they hopefully can be more nuanced in their future historical essays when talking about this subject
I remember very clearly learning about it in school as quite a young child, I think it impressed upon me because of the notion of these civilians in their little boats rescuing the military, and maybe because I had family members that were in the military in WWII I paid more attention. But my partner who is my same age (40s) admitted he was unfamiliar with this battle and had never heard of it before.
I agree, Chef Grace. Product of the American public school system here and it’s atrocious. No wonder we’re in absolute shambles over here. If you don’t take the opportunity to educate yourself on a broad range of subjects either during your formal school years or after, you’re SOL. I had never heard of Dunkirk until a few years after high school.
Our WW2 education was basically a two week course that amounted to: “a lot of Jews died but not as many as you think and Poland was killing Germans first so 🤷”
I don’t ever remember learning about WW1 in school.
We breezed over the Korean Conflict, spent a bit more time on Vietnam (but mostly the protests), and anything past Vietnam was a footnote during the last week of class.
We have severely underfunded schools and teachers, and the curriculum is awful. I only give this guy like 50% of the fault for not doing some light googling before or after.
The Academy is made of members from all around the world. The ballot is anonymous so we have no way of knowing where these two are from.
Why assume these two are American?
Dumb is global.
I have a history degree (or I will in nine weeks) and I had never heard of Dunkirk. However, I had heard of “Operation Dynamo” and once I did some research I realized they were the same thing.
I’m also realizing now that I’m completing my degree without taking a single class about WWII. I’ve taken some on the lead up, and some on the aftermath, but none about the actual war. Interesting.
Interesting. the 20th century is my favorite part about History. Is it ok for me to ask what is your specialization ? (if you have one) I would have loved to study history!
Since I double majored with English I actually didn’t have to declare a specialization (though I have one in Creative writing on the English side of things)
Looking back on the classes I’ve taken, I’d say my historical education was pretty unfocused honestly. I’ve taken classes on Modern Europe (1789-1914), European Heretics and Witchcraft, the American Revolution, Canada After 1945, Sexuality,Mythology, Italian Crime Families, and Rock and Roll (that one was technically a music class, but it was literally called “History of Rock and Roll.”
One of my favourite classes was a 20th century history class – it was called Dark Artefacts, and we watched Noir films, using them as a “Window in to the Past,” it was great.
I had several relatives that fought in WWII and I know almost nothing about it. Like I didn’t even know until recently that the Nazis persecuted communists. It’s shameful how little they teach in Canadian schools. I’m kind of sympathetic to that voter, honestly.
The voter didn’t get Dunkirk? That says more about him/her than the film! Ignorant AF.
I’m really, really behind on my movie-watching! Literally the only one I’ve seen is Get Out, which I loved. As far as Sally Hawkins potentially losing to Frances McDormand, if Holly Hunter could win for The Piano (which she totally deserved) then surely SH has a chance. I imagine it’s so much more challenging to act without speaking.
I hope Sally Hawkins is a dark horse because Shape of Water was uncomfortable and beautiful and awkward and poignant. It was my favorite film of the Oscar films I saw. I literally vacillated between utter disgust (is this woman really gonna f*ck this fish?) to Oh my god I hope they make it at the end. It’s so bizarre seeing a 30+ yr old woman bloom while she falls in love with a fish and rooting for it. This movie does not work emotionally for the viewer without Sally Hawkins. AT ALL. I really want her to win.
From everything I’ve read about it it sounds like such a weird yet beautiful film, and your description definitely falls in line with that. It’s definitely on my must-watch list.
Reef, I’m pretty sure your review would make Guillermo del Toro blush with happiness because “uncomfortable but beautiful” describes nearly all of his work. 🙂
“I’m a bit confused by Get Out. Not by understanding the film—I understood the film fine—I’m just not 100% sure why they made that one the social statement of the year.”
OMG if you didn’t get why it made the social statement of the year, you DIDN’T UNDERSTAND THE FILM.
“I wasn’t familiar with Dunkirk in my history, and I didn’t know it’s in France. And they never explained it.”
“In MY history”. AKA: What do you MEAN the USA didn’t single-handedly fight and win every battle of every war!?
That whole comment and the arrogance in it disgusted me. “I didn’t even know where it was and they didn’t spoon feed it to meeee”.
they are used to all the films that put up captions like ‘Paris, France’, “London, England’, that is done for the benefit of Americans
Really? No one else might find the location useful?
Not defending the voter at all, but Americans are the reason they put locations captions in films?
No eto. It isn’t for Americans. It is for anyone watching the movie. *eye roll* Because there is a world outside of the West where Western things and places aren’t on their radar. They do it for all sorts of films and wait for it. In foreign films for their audience in their own countries.
Not all locales are easily identifiable. An iced capped mountain doesn’t mean Switzerland all the time.
Sounds like exactly what I would expect to hear from an Oscar voter
I’m prepared to be flamed, but I’m not understanding why Get Out is getting Oscar buzz. I enjoyed the movie. I understood the movie. I don’t think it’s an Oscar worthy film. It feels like it was nominated so the Academy could pat itself on the back for it’s “diversity.”
I agree. I thought it was fun and clever, but not good enough for an Oscar. I felt it was overhyped as some kind of landmark and a bit clumsy.
I agree. Though the concept was great, I wasn’t sold on the execution of the film. The acting wasn’t that great and it’s not Oscar worthy to me. It seems as if something was missing. He defeated the family to quick and without much effort. It wasn’t a horror flick but a thriller. I’m just rooting for Peele because of effort, creativity and a lot of bad films have won Oscars why not give it to Get Out. But yeah, it was over hyped.
I think that, beyond the quality of the movie itself, it’s because it was groundbreaking, unexpected (came from Sundance so it’s indie, but it’s a genre film so it’s original) and, more importantly, it helps the diversity of the nominations. People remembered it when it was time to vote for the nominees, and the Academy can no longer afford to (and shouldn’t) have a complete caucasian set.
Mmmhh. I actually understood what that voter was trying to say about ‘Get Out’ though I don’t agree and think they were conflating two issues?
With the scream comparison he was talking about the movie as commentary on the horror genre. And while ‘Get Out’ is a good horror film it doesn’t have a new twist on the genre but is firmly in the tradition of more cerebral horror films. How the voter doesn’t understand why the social message part of the movie is THE reason why everyone is so gaga over it is beyond me though.
And I just honestly have a completely different view on Three Billboards than Kaiser has. I don’t know why movies are suddenly expected to come with flashing neon signs that make sure that the audience understands that depiction is not endorsement? Every single main character in that movie is kind of an asshole and I didn’t feel that any of them got redeemed.
I can understand it if people wanted something else from the movie and don’t like it because the racist cop didn’t get a shotgun blast to the face. But then just say that? At no point did I feel like the movie was about him so ultimately his fate has no bearing on my opinion of it.
**Maybe some spoilers for Three Billboards**
I agree with you.
I think that WAS the point of Three Billboards. There was no redemption, no resolutions, no bow and no lessons. It was just people reacting to and out of pain. I didn’t see Sam Rockwell’s character as someone who learned his lesson. Based on his proposed plan at the end of the movie, he clearly didn’t. Movies are not about showcasing morality and teaching people who to admire. Sometimes they’re snapshots of truly broken, beyond repair people and situations. And yes, racist assholes cry. And feel sad. I didn’t think this was a ringing endorsement for empathy. I still understand that racist assholes are bad people. The only person who doesn’t react to fear with fear in the movie is Red.
I agree with both of you. I did not like Three Billboards myself but this idea that movie must highlight what you should think about a character is just odd. I did not sympathize with the racist cop and I cannot remember any instance in the movie where I felt like I had to. Best movies are the ones that let the viewers to interpret the characters. The idea that viewers must be spoonfed with “acceptable” protagonist and characters is just sad and weird.
I agree with you as well. The further into the film you get, the less and less likeable any of the characters become. No one was “good” even the person (Frances) who in the typical movie would be the saintly grieved mother figure. And that was clearly the point, to me, which made it a really interesting exploration of complex characters, and I applaud the actors work for not shrinking back and being willing to be ugly.
Now whether I’m going to watch it again? Probably not, because while I thought it was good storytelling, it wasn’t enjoyable viewing. Shape of Water or Get Out or Lady Bird? Those I’ll watch again.
The whole point of the outrage is that you and McDonough(sp) think it is very important that we know that racists have a range of emotions. Yet do not bother to care about the people that they are victimizing. That is what this film is doing. The victims are the afterthoughts. It is a one sided discussion that goes nowhere.
The script was a shallow and conceited mess. He picks up on the hot button issues in our country and does absolutely nothing with it. Yet he is getting praised for bringing up that racism exists in a small town. So what? If you bring up issues like this then you better have something to say about it. He didn’t add anything of value to the discussion.
I saw 3 Billboards last night and I was not only surprised by how much I liked it (seriously Frances deserves every award for the role) but totally baffled people think Dixon was redeemed? He wanted to murder someone at the end!
Add me in as another person that disagrees strongly with the prevailing opinion here regarding Three Billboards
— Spoilers —
Why do people keep saying the Sam Rockwell character was taught a lesson?
He and Frances McDormand end the film driving off to kill someone. Someone they *think* may be guilty of rape. However, they don’t really know this for certain. But here they are, breezily chatting about the murder they are going to commit. To me it’s a very dark and twisted ending. The fact Frances, the protagonist we are supposed to sympathize with, ends the film on a sick buddy cop journey with this violent racist shows how far she’s fallen as a person. This is what her guilt, pain, and rage have done to her. But if you think about it we see signs of this throughout the film as she does increasingly reckless and violent things. The audience is led to feel she’s righteous in her violence and Sam Rockwell is loathsome in *his* violence but in the end they are portrayed as morally similar. I actually really like that ending.
I also disagree with the notion the Sam Rockwell character was redeemed. He does one good thing because he’s briefly inspired in the moment by the way Woody Harrelson describes him in that letter. But it was an opportunity that literally fell in his lap. After that doesn’t work out he completely drops the idea of pursuing the killer. That would take, ya know, actual effort, commitment, having a noble mission bigger than himself, etc. It’s easier to just fall back into his old pattern of playing judge, jury and “executioner” The only thing different is that the audience is OK with him meting out violence against *that* guy.
Lastly I’ll just say I was a little horrified by the voter saying she found the film a fun distraction. Yes there was some comedy in it but there was a ton of grotesque violence. In fact I’d say the overriding message of the film was how violence begats more violence. But I shouldn’t be shocked by the voters reaction, it’s clear both those voters were idiots.
They lost me when they said that “Get Out” made them laugh. What the actual hell?
It’s not a comedy (sorry, Golden Globes), but there were some funny bits. The “vote for Obama three times” thing is a joke. Lil Rel was there for comic relief. I laughed during Get Out.
I think it was super funny! Scary and sad too, but absolutely had some funny scenes.
Those bits are funny, but part of what makes them so clever is that they contribute to the air of discomfort to the film. We all know people who think of racism as performative, so their personal attempt at NOT being racist is equally disingenuous. Where I think the film really succeeds is in using one form of commonly understand, subtle racism to throw off and audience and introduce something far more insidious and unexpected.
Its been labeled as a dark comedy, which is a head scratcher.
Dunkirk was awesome! But Dunkirk was also geared toward the Commonwealth since we learn about it schools – since I guess our schools are better at teaching a fuller curriculum about WWII history?
Sorry that Dunkirk wasn’t aimed at American audiences you as*hats! Read a damned history book!
Again how do you know the voter was American? They could be from anywhere. The Academy is made up of people from all over the world. The phraseology doesn’t even sound American. Americans don’t usually say” my country”. That sounds like a person who speaks another language. Dunkirk wouldn’t be taught in schools in Malaysia as a norm for instance.
Prep schools teach WW2 more in-depth or magnet schools might.
I honestly don’t see any controversial in these opinions, and calling them idiots because they don’t like the same things you do is a low blow. They both state their opinions very respectfully. Usually this anonymous ballots are very brutal and call everything stupid. I don’t get why we should be outraged by these comments.
The person also said that they didn’t know Dunkirk was in France, not that they didn’t understand the movie is in France. Because, you know, aside from the British and the French, not many people even knew about Dunkirk unless you’re a history buff.
If I had seen the movie and didn’t understand it, I would go right home and Google “Dunkirk.” I do that all the time when I’m not sure about a particular event, place or person. I was watching “The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel” last night and simultaneously googling about Lenny Bruce, the Gaslight club, etc. I wanted to fill in the blanks. No one can be expected to know everything. But I wouldn’t put the blame on the filmmakers.
But his point is that the movie doesn’t really give you much context about what’s going on. I think we all did what you said, we googled Dunkirk either before or after watching the movie to better understand what was going on outside of the little stories told in the plot itself. So maybe this person likes their movies with explicit context, and that’s fine, it’s his opinion. Doesn’t make him an idiot. The style was confusing to many because of the non linear narrative, again, doesn’t make people idiots. I don’t get why you have to insult someone who looks for different things in a movie.
Usually, I agree with you mina because not everyone has access to a top-tier education, but minx has a point. In this context, they could have done a little research.
If you are going to vote on a movie that is historical a simple search would turn up some basics.
I agree, people know a few facts of one event and they label everyone else as idiots if they don’t know the same facts as them. Wonder how many history facts the people bragging don’t know and someone else could call them an idiot for not knowing it? All of us.
Lady big completely overrated !..Whilst it was a good movie,I kept thinking of Juno the entire time.The Academy was just throwing a bone to a female director & it was favorable amongst some & it was “safe”.I feel the director of mud bound should’ve been nominated,Infact Angelina jolie should’ve been nominated for her movie as well & I have no doubt in my mind had Clint Eastwood or Martin directed FTKMF it would would’ve been nominated & been a favorite,but again “The safe choice”got nominated🙄.
My God I hated Juno so much I wanted to scream.
So movies now have to give people a geography lesson in order for people to understand the movie? Also in terms of the “They constantly switch between night and day” comment…thats because its telling the story from 3 different perspectives. One takes place over a week, one over a day and one in an hour. Im not even in the movie business and I got that.
GET OUT is perfect; entertaining, smart and simple. Its sad that it wont get the oscar, the acadamy is too retrogard to appriciate it.
…..and maybe one of the strongest racial relations & social commentary movies we have had in 20 years or so, and of course it will go over their head.
I was in advanced placement US history in high school and took advanced college level history. I don’t remember anything about Dunkirk from either curriculum. I graduated with honors from both institutions. Sorry if that makes me stupid. War movies don’t interest me, so I doubt I would watch anyway. But I don’t think it’s right to generalize a group of people as being less than intelligent just because they are unfamiliar with a movie subject, historical or not. JMO
Why are you taking what she said about the anonymous reviewers personally?
I was merely stating what I did not recall being taught in school. AKA joining a discussion. Someone further up made a comment and apologized to us American asshats for us not understanding the movie. I was stating my opinion. As this is an anonymous site, I don’t care enough to take it personally. I am quite secure in my education and intelligence, and have no problem researching something I may be interested in, but unknowledgeable. That is how one learns. Take your trolling elsewhere.
You are funny. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
HOW CAN YOU HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT A MOVIE YOU DID NOT SEE? Why are you getting mad about an opinion on a movie that you did not see?
You weren’t joining the discussion about movies or the reaction to the academy voters, unless you think we were talking about you. You are talking about her response to the reviewers and taking what she said personally because you didn’t know about Dunkirk.
You are so secure that you took time out of your day to write a post to a woman you don’t know that you graduated with honors from hs and college. You were practically bragging about it. No need to brag or post if you are that secure.
Lol, so you’re going to complain about a movie YOU DIDN’T SEE and therefore don’t know whether or not the voter is an idiot? How can you comment on how coherent a movie is that you haven’t seen?
I’m thinking the point of her post is that it was somewhat ungracious to refer to the anonymous voter as an idiot for not being familiar with this particular battle. This seems like an over the top response. I had to go look up the history of Dunkirk as well after seeing the Darkest Hour because it didn’t ring any of my history bells (granted, formal education was many years ago for me).
The voter is being called an idiot for literally not understanding the movie.
I love war movies, but I too had to look up Dunkirk because I wasn’t familiar with it and I took several history classes in college….I’m going to blame it on having 3 kids and PBS/Nickelodeon cartoon type TV dumbed me down a bit. LOL. But, I did love the movie!
@IMHO…yes that is what I was trying to say, graciously. I used my education as a point of reference of not recalling the subject matter taught in my classes. I just don’t think a group people should be called asshats for being unfamiliar with a particular subject, movie or not. I thought that’s how people learned. Not by being jumped on or misunderstood. This is only my second or third comment ever on this site. Over the top and ungracious indeed.
Dunkirk isn’t a battle most people outside of Europe may have learned and even then that is iffy. But we have no idea where the voter was from anyway. That it is an American is purely an assumption based on nothing really.
The voter was stupid for not merely learning some basics before seeing a movie they have been asked to vote on. It is a historical film, so there are facts out there. THAT part is what is dumb. Not knowing is just a shrug.
I’m sorry, but the writing in Three Billboards was TERRIBLE. So many plot holes, and the dialogue was off. That is not how people in Missouri talk… It just seemed off. Then I looked up the writer and saw that he’s from Ireland. Dude, no. Did people not see call me by your name?! That was a work of ART! Ugh, oscar voters suck.
I liked “Get Out” and at one tense point realized that I had yelled “Get Out!” at the screen, so it was well named. The social commentary was obviously the point, more than horror. It isn’t typical winning picture fare, and I think it was a good, not great, film, but given the competition I wouldn’t mind seeing it win.
Both of them didn’t even mention Call Me By Your Name, which, in my opinion, was the best movie of the year. It was mesmerizing.
I find it insulting that some voters are chosen, and they didn’t even bother seeing the most acclaimed movies of the season.
Seriously, F*** THREE BILLBOARDS it’s a total piece of s***.
I tried to watch Lady Bird but for so some reason couldn’t. I’m surprised by the hate of three billboards, most of my friends who are not into these kind of movies loved it and critics too.
You may find these voters complete idiots. But the fact that one of them devalues Lady Bird and Phantom Thread ( apparently cardinal sins) in favor of Mudbound and The Florida project is totally ok by me.
And he gave reasonable arguments, no need to bang head against wall.
Ladybird was overrated. I wanted to be wowed by it because all of the reviews and ratings were so over the top. But it was just an OK movie. It reminded me way too much of Frances Ha by the same director, meaning basically the same character and ideas, just a younger perspective. “Coming of age” of a middle class girl whose white privilege allows her to wallow in teen angst over her mother-daughter conflict and her college choice. I think the public in general is so unused to seeing movies from women directors that show women’s stories that we fall all over ourselves to praise when there is one even if it is not that remarkable.
I kind of felt this way about Bridesmaids and the whole “Women driven comedy! It’s here! It’s great!” Which, sure. But the entire premise of that movie was that women are catty and jealous of each other. Nothing new or empowering or barrier-breaking about that. Just crappy stereotypes.
I hated Bridesmaids! And everyone went on and on about it for years! I still want to yell “shut up!” when someone starts “omg did you see BRIDESMAIDS?!”
It was ok for me too. Bridesmaids hardly made me laugh. Tina Fey isn’t as funny to me as she is to others so that could be it. Amy Schumer either.
My sister and I watched Lady Bird last night. I agree with you, I think it’s overrated and I was honestly wondering the whole time “why is this movie nominated for 5 Oscars”? It’s not a bad movie, it was just very unremarkable to me in every way (acting, directing, script, etc.). My sister liked it a lot, because she felt it was a very realistic representation of a teenager. But at least to me, that shouldn’t be something to shout about.
My jaw dropped with the comment re not knowing Dunkirk was in France-😳. I really enjoyed it, and also appreciated it was not a gore-fest ( still have nightmares over Saving Private Ryan and Warhorse). I enjoyed Ladybird, and don’t understand the observation of having this theme done over and over. The mother-daughter dynamic was spot-on, and loved Laurie Metcalfe. Would be fine with either her or Sally Hawkins winning BA.
Whenever a white person states that they didn’t “get” or “understand” Get Out I give them MAJOR side eye. Because the meaning and social implications in Get Out were pretty obvious so you are either willfully ignorant or stupid. And the Dunkirk thing – oh my God. Even if you didn’t study Dunkirk in school it doesn’t take a genius to figure out the film takes place in France. In the age of Google there is simply no excuse to be this ignorant. And I am not shocked that they were both dazzled by Oldman. Simple minded people are easily impressed.
1) Why do you assume this person is white?
2) They said they didn’t get the hype over Get Out, not that they didn’t understand Get Out.
3) You’d be surprised at the amount of things people don’t know about other countries geography. I still find people who believe Holland is a country or that Sydney is the capital of Australia.
You all really make so many assumptions about people you don’t know just by a few selected quotes.
This was so much less horrible than it has been in the past, where they flat out admitted they didn’t watch all the films they were voting on, voted for their friends, in the animated category just voted for what their kids liked, and didn’t even try to explain why they liked some films and not others. Not even shallow analysis, just “I didn’t like it.” The bar was low but it has been raised here. Or picked up off the ground, at least.
Even if they didn’t know anything about what happened in Dunkirk or didn’t bother to read on Wikipedia, they literally say in movie they were going to France. Like, was that voter sleeping during the movie or something?
To me the best movies of the year were Dunkirk and Shape of Water. Everything about those two was amazing: the acting, the photography, the sound mixing, the score, everything. But I would be very happy if Get Out or Lady Bird won as well.
About Three Billboards, I only agree about the Frances love. She carried that whole movie, if she wasn’t in it I doubt the movie would be a strong contender. Unfortunately seems likely we’ll have a Crash 2.0 moment.
I thought Dunkirk was horrible and I am fascinated with that era. I just thought it was poorly done and very impersonal. The film WAS confusing because of how poorly it was made. Even if you know the facts.
“Oscar voting hasn’t closed yet.”
It needs to be pointed out, Oscar voting hasn’t OPENED yet. It runs February 20 – 27th.
Sorry but I agree with the voter’s assessment of Lady Bird. It was totally overrated.
White Oscar voters should not be trusted with Get Out. >_> Some white people get it, but then we’ve got morons like this one. Really? You don’t get why that’s the social statement?? Unreal.
I agree with them that I, Tonya is underrated. I liked Lady Bird too.
“I’m a bit confused by Get Out. Not by understanding the film—I understood the film fine—I’m just not 100% sure why they made that one the social statement of the year …. and they’re making Get Out as this huge statement, and I don’t quite see the depth of it that other people are seeing.”
Translation: I am uncomfortable when people mock my woke, white, hypocritical self.
Sigh. Left’-right politics is religion these days. Everything is politicized and the members of each camp react accordingly.