In the end, the trajectory of Gary Oldman’s Oscar win was strikingly similar to Casey Affleck’s Best Actor Oscar win. There had long been accusations about both men, and those accusations barely made a blip during the Oscar campaigns. For Oldman, his ex-wife had claimed – as they were divorcing – that he had been violent with her in front of their then-small children. He ended up with full custody of their two sons, and she (Donya Fiorentino) has barely seen her sons for most of her life. By her own admission, she struggled with drugs and alcohol through much of her adult life… as did Gary Oldman. Several weeks ago, she gave an interview to the Daily Mail where she reiterated her claim that Oldman was violent with her, and she took ownership of the fact that she was a drug abuser and far from a good mother.
Following the Oscars, Donya spoke to TMZ, saying: “Congratulations, Gary and congratulations to the Academy for awarding not one but two abusers with Oscars. I thought we had evolved. What happened to the #MeToo movement?” She was referring to Oldman and Kobe Bryant. In the wake of all of this drama – a drama where, it should be reiterated, Gary Oldman WON AN OSCAR – Oldman and Donya’s son Gulliver has chosen to release a statement, slamming the media and his mother:
❗️IMPORTANT – please read AND share!!
Gulliver Oldman's statment about the totally false allegations against his father Gary Oldman. It saddens us he had to write this, but hopefully he'll be heard and understood.https://t.co/JKIDGiR793 pic.twitter.com/POJu8bUhTN— Gary Oldman Web 🌐 (@GaryOldmanWeb) March 5, 2018
I mean… of course it’s clear that Gulliver loves his father and hero-worships his father. It’s clear that Gary Oldman got clean and lives a much healthier life, and he did the work to be a better man and a better father for his children. Props to him for all of that, and Gulliver has every right to want to defend his beloved father.
…But Gulliver’s arguments are not-great. He wants to blame the media for, like, occasionally bringing up Donya’s accusations… when the mainstream media largely ignored Donya and, again, Gary Oldman tore through the awards season winning every major award for a sub-par performance in a sh-tty movie, regardless of Donya’s years-old accusations. Gulliver makes the argument that his dad never would have gotten custody if Oldman had been proven to be an abuser. Au contraire – powerful, wealthy, well-connected men consistently get joint or sole custody of their kids even with accusations or admissions of abuse. One example – out of many – is that Mel Gibson pled guilty to assaulting Oksana Grigorieva and he still had joint custody (and unsupervised visitation) with their daughter. Gary Oldman would know all about that, because he and Mel are friends and Oldman defended Gibson’s anti-Semitic hate speech just a few years ago. But I digress…
Why do I get the feeling that it’s not “enough” that Gary Oldman won the Oscar for that terrible film? For Gary and his sons, they wanted Oldman to win and then have everyone talk about how he’s the greatest man ever. That’s what’s pissing him off – the after-action conversation of “wow, the Academy is going to regret that one.”
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Gulliver was a small child when most of this happened. It’s quite likely he either has no memory of things or wasnt privy to what went one between his parents. Also he spent the majority of his childhood only hearing one side of the story – his father’s. Im sure he loves his father and by all accounts Oldman is a good father. But Gulliver is not a reliable source of information in this situation. Hopefully one day he will take the time to hear what his mother has to say as well. I’m sure he has a lot of anger towards her for her addictions, etc. But she has a right to be heard just as much as anyone else.
He’s claimed as the witness though, that’s the whole point. She claims he did this in front of the children and the children deny this happened. And I disagree, you remember traumatic events like this, even as a child.
As someone who at the age of 5 saw my father physically attack my mother in front of me, I agree. You don’t forget trauma. I also know from studying witness testimony that we don’t often remember things exactly as they happened. Our memories are unreliable. My point is more that the fact that he spent his whole life being told one story by one parent while the other was vilified – it doesn’t make you a reliable witness.
Or not. Kids can have selective memories when it comes to their families. Kids have stood by parents accused of murdering the other parent. So Gulliver’s opinion is not reliable.
@DiligentDiva That’s not necessarily true. You can have a lot of repressed memories as a child. Especially if they’re traumatic. He lived the majority of his life with his father and obviously had a good relationship with him. His memories could be unconsciously skewed.
So we just shouldn’t believe him? We shouldn’t believe his side of the story?
I really just don’t like this idea that we should throw away evidence that doesn’t fit. That sounds like a bad idea to me.
But you are ok with throwing away what Donya says.
Or you can also supress them.
The thing is, the brain can forget things or see things differently. My younger brother has a true photographic memory in that you can ask him to read the third line on page 62 of a book, and he can recite it perfectly from memory. But he actually told me once that we were not abused as children, which is patently untrue. We were abused. I even took abuse from my father to protect my younger brother and sister because my father liked to whip all 3 of us if he thought something had happened and none of us admitted to doing it. (Like the time a screwdriver fell underneath the car, beside the wheel, and he thought one of us had taken it – which we had not.)
My brother missed a lot of the abuse due to his being 5 years younger, but he was there and experienced some of it. His father worship clouds his memory of it, even though the rest of his memory is perfect. I think that’s what is happening here with Oldman’s son.
I believe Donya.
Point to be noted – Oldman doesn’t dispute this incident took place. He simply minimizes it by saying he didn’t intend to strike her and his hand might have brushed against her when he tried to grab the phone from her.
My father abused my mother often. At one point, I lied to people asking questions about my father’s behavior. Let’s not pretend that children and teens aren’t point in this position out of guilt for “snitching on their parents”.
It’s a tightrope when living in a dysfunctional home. Do I tell on Daddy? Mommy? Do I keep quiet or risk being cut from their lives?
That’s a good point Des. I imagine him acknowledging the incident but downplaying the abuse aspect of it would also help twist his son’s memory of his actions into something less malicious.
Does he have a relationship with the kid he shares with Lesley Manville? The people who defend him try and turn him into father of the year for raising his kids, but it seems like, at best, he was just the lesser of two evils in that specific custody situation. A domestic abuser can win custody with great lawyers and a big bank account.
@KBB he has a very good relationship with his son with Lesley Manville. That’s Alfie. He was there last night too (he’s just not in that photo).
That’s good to know, Mia. Leading up to the Oscars I had read how he left Lesley when his son was three months old and there was some innuendo about seating them away from each other at awards shows, so I wasn’t sure how cordial or contentious their relationship was.
KBB I really don’t think they have any problem with each other at all, either on Lesley’s side or his. I don’t think anyone (including him) would deny that it was awful that he left when he did or that Lesley did the lion’s share of the parenting. But she’s also said they’re cordial and have been for a long time and she likes that he and their son have a great relationship.
No drama with his fourth wife either, they just divorced quietly and he has said it was an age difference issue that he learned from (his new wife is more in his age range; I guess we will see!). He and Uma have no relationship as far as I know (but then again no kids, so no reason) but she did talk about it in Vanity Fair and said it was a mistake for them to marry as she was too young but that he was “her first love”.
You do remember traumatic events, but usually not before the age of 3. The part of the brain that stores long term memory is not developed enough until then. I’m having a hard time finding the age of these boys when this alleged abuse occurred. Can someone tell me.
I believe that adult children know the truth of what went on their families, and Gulliver is an adult now.
It’s funny how we are expected to believe every word of what Dylan Farrow says she experienced when she was four years old, but Gulliver Oldman is deemed too young to be a reliable witness to what happened in his home.
Gulliver Oldman’s feelings about his mother are also being dismissed as the result of parental alienation tactics by Gary Oldman, which means people must think he’s still not old enough at age 20 to understand his own life.
Donya Fiorentino herself has never claimed that Gary Oldman alienated the children against her, only that lack of daily contact caused them to drift away from her.
I was just thinking the same thing. I believe Dylan Farrow accurately remembers what happened and she was barely older than Gullivan. I also believe Gullivan accurately remembers what happened.
There is a difference between understanding his own life and understanding his parents’ relationship.
The major difference between those two situations though is that Dylan was speaking out about her own abuse, while Gulliver is denying that someone else’s abuse happened.
I still believe Donya about Gary Oldman assaulting her with the phone, but there is a possibility that she made up the detail about their son witnessing it- either deliberately, because she thought that was the only way she’d be believed- or unintentionally (drugs and alcohol). There’s also the possibility that Gulliver is lying in favor of the parent who was better to him.
@okatu fairy. Thank you for a rational comment.
Donya has said repeatedly that there was one incident of domestic violence (the phone incident) and that the reason why it was so bad is because it was witnessed by the children and it caused them to cry and be traumatized. She said she was holding Charlie in her arms when it happened.
To invent a scenario in which Gulliver didn’t witness it is to say that the whole story is false.
I think it’s really uncalled for to accuse Gulliver of being a liar. He’s innocent in all of this and he has every right to speak his truth.
When Woody Allen took Dylan Farrow up to the attic and molested her, she was 7 not 4. It’s the memories between the ages 0 and 3 that are less reliable because, in most people, the brain hasn’t developed enough yet to permanently and accurately store long term memories.
If children are unreliable why do the authorities bother tointerview them? Also if time alters perception how to explain away that Gulliver gave the exact same version of events as a child?
Being a drunken, misogynistic, foul-mouthed, racist asshole doesn’t make you less deserving of fair, deliberate consideration.
+1
Agreed.
There’s a difference between a man who beats his partner and a man who beats his children. In Germany, violence against the mother of the children hardly influence the custody and visiting agreements, since there’s a partnership-level and a parenting-level. Abusing one doesn’t mean they lack in the other department too.
Not saying I agree, but if you go at this from a very pragmatic, judical point of view, that’s the result.
The abuse of parent to parent doesn’t count for custody in the US in ALL cases, but some. My son’s absentee father beat his other child from his other marriage, and I brought forward domestic abuse allegation towards me, albeit 5yrs prior during marriage. The dad STILL received 50% custody of our child. It’s up to the judge! Two years later, and I got a DIFFERENT judge who reviewed the same case, WITH the dad’s current behavior towards our child. IT was deemed he was a ” bad dad ” after all, and the NEW judge removed part of that 50%. We haven’t seen the dad now in over two years. MY POINT IS, the basic guidelines aren’t always cut in stone, it depends upon the judge.
Eh I’ll say if it’s a matter of one incident where she claims the children witnessed the abuse it does mean something if they can recall the incident but have a different memory.
They clearly can’t say there was no physical abuse at all but I don’t believe in discounting children.
I went through 10 years of custody. It takes PERSISTENCE for the courts to believe the woman these days. The pendulum swung towards “dad’s rights”, so very consistent evidence needs to be brought forward if in fact the mom wants shared or all custody. Sounds like Danya also had overt addictive issues and couldn’t present a solid case. It’s sad, but we women have to be solid strong for ourselves and our families.
I don’t get the “his arguments aren’t the best” logic here, his arguments are this supposedly happened in front of him and it didn’t, plus his mother losing custody not just once, but twice (I believe she also claimed domestic abuse with David Finch as well) and that his father has never been violent with him and has been a good dad. That’s a pretty solid argument, and we can speculate that a judge took Oldman’s side just because he was rich and powerful but that’s not always the case and again it’s just our own speculation.
Look at Woody Allen who lost custody due to his abuse, or Britney Spears who lost custody. Judges don’t always just side with rich people, to act like they do is misrepresenting cases. I don’t buy at all that judges just take away custody twice for no reason. She OD in front of her children and that seems to be the main reason why she lost custody to begin with.
His son who is supposed to be the witness is claiming it didn’t happen, that really damages her story. Are we just not supposed to believe any evidence when it comes to these stories?
I can’t find any articles showing that she ever made an abuse accusation against Fincher. So what is your source?
I don’t think it was an article I think was in the court filings, which might be hard to get at. I’ve heard people on other forms talk about it.
So then it is unclear whether she accused Fincher.
I’d read the same thing about her accusing David Fincher of abuse, but after a pretty exhaustive internet search there is nothing I can find to substantiate that. All I was able to find was a couple of internet comments, used as proof to discredit Donya’s accusations against Gary Oldman, by painting her as a woman who cries wolf.
If anyone has links to support the claim, it would be much appreciated because I can’t find anything.
It’s possible people are just confusing the two divorces because she lost custody in both of them. But I think it may have started as a malicious claim against her and it has just been repeated and believed. But like I said, if someone can find a real origin of it, please share.
My father was never violent towards me either. That has nothing to do with the violence he visited on my mother. Donya has her issues. That’s not a secret. But that doesn’t mean she is lying about abuse (PS – she also could very much be telling the truth about Finch as well since women who are abused tend to pick abusive partners repeatedly) . As for Gulliver, I feel for him. Because I think he probably was very confused and angry as a child because of what he witnessed. He says he didn’t see anything and maybe he actually believes that. But I believe Donya. She has no reason to lie at this point. She lost custody of her kids. She has stated more than once that she doesn’t wish ill on Oldman – but that she also doesnt want what happened to her be discounted and ignored because he is a Hollywood star.
“Because I think he probably was very confused and angry as a child because of what he witnessed. He says he didn’t see anything and maybe he actually believes that.”
Or maybe he never actually saw anything, I am not comfortable with calling anyone a liar/confused/in denial in this situation.
She claims in her accusations that he was violent towards the children, and again the son is claiming none of that is true.
@Zapp Brannigan but you have no issues calling Donya a liar?? It could very well be possible that in Gulliver’s mind He DIDN’T see anything. There are children who witness one parent killing the other and claim they never saw a thing. Trauma plays differently in each individual. Not to mention that memories can be maleable. Ask any lawyer and they will tell you that the most unreliable evidence in any case is usually eye witness testimony. There have been huge studies showing how are memories are not always accurate. Add in the fact that he has basically only had one narrative – his father’s – his entire life.
So we are to believe her and make up stories as to why the son is lying? Really?
@Valiently Varnished, I wrote that I am not comfortable calling ANYONE a liar in this situation. I never called Donya a liar.
@DiligentDiva do you have a link to where she claims he abused the kids as well? I’ve read about this case numerous times and have never come across that accusation. I just tried Googling it as well and couldn’t find it.
@Valiantly Varnished, but that doesn’t fall in line with what Donya claimed. She claimed that Oldman was abusive to not only her but the children. She claimed things like Oldman burnt a cigarette on the kid at one point. Those were among the accusations.
So again the story falls apart when the child in question comes forward and says none of that is true.
Donya made the allegation in the first place and she has plenty of reason to maintain that allegation because if she backs down now, she will be called a liar and will be discounted. People lie all the time when it comes to court cases, especially if the lie benefits their position. I am a lawyer and encounter this all the time, even from my own clients and even after I remind them of solicitor client privilege. When someone is invested in a version of events, which has now lasted decades later, they are not going to change their position now, especially if they aren’t forced to.
I am inclined to think that Oldman was a jerk in most of his relationships, but we also cannot discount what his son has said just because it does not fit with the narrative that we prefer. I also don’t believe that a judge would simply award sole custody because one parent is an actor. They need serious evidence to support the removal of custody from one parent and obviously Donya was not viewed as a suitable parent by the court at the time. In 2001 the courts would also still view the mother as the preferable parent for children still so young.
@nic919
Not if she was a drug addict who was actively using. And considering the son chose to insert a lie about whether abusers are given custody, he clearly has some issues.
Worked in a domestic violence unit for a courthouse for 2.5 years and I agree. It’s insulting and not a single judge I knew gave custody of children just because one spouse made more money but was abusive to their partners. Judges are vulnerable to appeals if they make decisions like that and judges hate getting overturned on appeal. I disagree.
@OFofOC Don’t bring up evidence to these commenters they just like there hive mind mentality. And like to just discredit children’s account, cause it doesn’t fit with the claims.
And yea I agree if it was a case of a judge giving custody due to power and influence an appeal case could have happened. Which never did.
May I ask where this was? Because I have a feeling in Hollywood things play much differently.
isn’t the same accusation made against mia farrow? that she brainwashed her children, vilified woody… and we of course believe dylan… so why the different approach here? I mean oldman can be bad and all, but it’s troubling me that we don’t believe all of her children who cut relations with her…
Woody Allen was at the height of his fame and popularity and still lost his kids. Which just really discredits this idea of “Well a judge always sides with the rich guy” mentality here. Judges don’t always do that, and there is an appeal process if something like that does happen.
Oldman is shit for a bunch of other reasons and it’s killing me to defend this guy cause I think he’s trash. But I think it’s important not to discount evidence, because we can’t start doing that. The kid is claiming that what happened didn’t happen.
I’m a family law lawyer, and money absolutely can benefit someone in a custody/access case. Not so much that a judge will discriminate against someone with lesser means, but in that a rich person is going to have the ability to hire as many lawyers as s/he wants, and can drag things out in court until the other side runs out of money or gives up.
In fact, I hear the threat of ‘I will drag this through court until you don’t have a single penny left’ about 5 times a year.
I am not willing to discount Gulliver. She lost custody twice with different fathers and overdosed in front of her children. I believe he adores his father, but I also think the incident happened though possibly not the way she presented it as in the children were there. I think it was a sick relationship and he cleaned up his act, and she hasn’t.
I am not willing to fill in gaps to support her claims. I do however believe the kids were never there.
She lost custody because she isn’t fit to have custody. That is separate from the incident.
I have to side-eye abuse claims when the spouse is silent until a separation and divorce happens. Divorce brings out the nasty in people and I’ve seen/heard of some horrible false accusations being made so one side can tip the scales in their favor. Especially when children and custody are involved.
Then you don’t know much about how abuse works.
I do know how it works. It is rare that no one knows or at least suspects. She’s claiming the kids witnessed the abuse and the kids are saying, “Nope. I never saw anything like that.”
To deny people falsely accuse their spouses of abuse in divorce situations in order to gain the upper hand, especially when it comes to custody of children is naive. It happens. A lot!
@Sherry – I suggest you have a few convos with women who have been in abusive relationships. Your husband having divorce atyorney friends doesnt give you an inside view into how abuse works. At all.
As for people “always knowing”. Nope. No one knew that my father beat my mother. She was an executive at a large bank in the 70’s and 80’s. One of only a few women and the only WOC. No one knew what she dealt with at home. No one knew until my father made the mistake of hitting her in public on the street while she was holding me in her arms and someone intervened. YOUR comments are naive in the extreme
Please show where I said the words “always knows.” I stated that it is rare that no one else knows or at least suspects. I have known abuse victims. They tried to brush off their abuse or make excuses for the abuse, but we all knew what was going on. I certainly never said that was always the case and I’m sorry that you and your mother had to live through that.
You have persistently taken this woman’s side and made up reasons why this young man is lying.
If you look at the facts, Gary Oldman has been married five times and yet this is the only woman who says he abused her. He has a great relationship with all three of his children, including the child he has with his first wife.
On the other hand, Donya has destroyed her relationship with her children and they want nothing to do with her.
Most people struggle to come forward with abuse claims at all. Attitudes like yours make it even harder.
My husband is an attorney and has divorce attorney friends. I’ve heard about the abuse allegations suddenly popping up when the clients think they may not get what they want.
It’s a sad reality.
Except that is not reality. It is attorneys spinning to protect clients.
If you find it odd that someone in an abusive situation wouldn’t say it was until after ending the relationship… then you’re not thinking very logically. The end of the relationship is the most logical time abuse would come out! The vast majority of abused spouses hide it whilst the relationship is still happening. And for this reason, more often than not no-one has any idea till after it has ended.
This is such a bizarre comment! Of course it has been known for people to make things up. But that is not the norm, and you ‘hearing’ about false allegations doesn’t prove they were false.
Having a divorce attorney husband clearly does not mean you understand how abuse works.
I think shutting down Sherry for a valid point is not conducive to the full and meaningful conversation we need to have. No doubt the power balance has favored men for too long, but I fear the day when the #MeToo movement gets nullified by the #DueProcess . We have to listen to all sides, and we have to include the children (who are now adults and speaking their truth). None of us are in this family, and none of know at core what happened: speculation can be a terrible justification for condemning anyone.
Where do we go from here?
My husband is not a divorce attorney; these were other friends who have divorce practices. Many of these conversations stemmed from the attorneys questioning the validity of their own clients accusations, especially when it wasn’t brought up until the litigation got the point where it looked like they might lose. They had no corroborating evidence and the children denied ever seeing or experiencing this abuse.
It happens. It’s certainly not always the case, but we cannot blindly accept someone ‘s accusation as truth, especially when there are witnesses saying it never happened.
Sherry: I have a friend who was divorcing and fighting for sole custody because of the dad’s lack of interest in the kid, the divorce lawyer kept trying to get her to say there was abuse to the point where she fired her. To say that people don”t do crazy things when it comes to custody of their kids, especially when anger is involved is misguided. Like, yeah, believe all women when it comes to supporting them but also be willing to accept some women are horrible.
Donya Forentino’s first child Phelix Imogen what she had with David Fincher ( he asked the divorce fastly after the birth and had the full custody of their child) apparently also deleted her mother of her life if you read UCLA papers https://issuu.com/uclabruins/docs/2013wvbmgfull/22 ,Fincher accused his future ex wife of negligence and to be drug/alcohol addict even during the pregnancy .She accused him of abuse ( if I remember well)
She was an addict. That’s not news. She herself has been pretty open about it. Her and Oldman met in rehab! That doesnt have anything to do with whether or not she was abused. Drug addicts can be terrible parents and still be abuse victims.
I don’t deny it but Donya doesn’t look reliable in my opinion
@iris Oldman is an alcoholic. So that makes him completely unrelible. If you are going to use addiction as a barometer for trustworthiness than it goes both ways. As for Fincher – unless you know him personally your comments about who he is as a person is merely supposition.
@don’t kill me, your comment about Donya not being reliable because she had/has a drug and alcohol issue yet Gary, who is an alcoholic, is reliable is bemusing. You believe the man addict but not the woman? She is unreliable, but he is a harbinger of truth?
Just because someone is an addict doesn’t mean they don’t tell the truth about being abused. And yes, the boy could have forgotten or repressed his memories. My sister was abused by a boy numerous times when she was 6 and has NO memory of it at all.
Ouf this is tough. First of all he espouses some erroneous myths about men and custody and wife-beaters and custody in there. Secondly, he makes some comments about how nowadays people are having their lives ruined by false accusations. These are basically MRA talking points and I can understand why he has swallowed them they still irritate me.
The thing is… His mother being a bad mother and drug addict and even a lousy person in general doesn’t mean that his father wasn’t violent towards her. Perhaps it happened only a handful of times when the kids were extremely small; but it is fully possible that it happened. Perhaps Gary has never been violent to a woman before or since; but it’s still possible it happened.
On the other hand, although it is statistically rare, there are some people who are unbalanced in some way and make false accusations, behave hysterically, try to “punish” those that leave them with false accusations; and I suppose that could be the case here.
Tough.
Agreed. It is tough. I hate discounting children because I was one of those kids. But I also know how easily a kid can be manipulated. And how unreliable memories can be. His talking points are huge red flags for me. Oldman himself has said some really misogynist things and his son has been privy to that kind of thinking for his entire life. That DOES color the way you look at things.
Oh really? Children can be manipulated?? You mean like Mia manipulated Dylan? No, of course you don’t mean that…
God help me, if I ever sit on a jury with any of the posters here. The accused won’t have a snowball’s chance in hell.
you can use the same arguments with Dylan Farrow’s case
@Pamela Perhaps. But you know what the BIG difference is for me? Donya was the victim. And Dylan was the victim. And I choose to believe victims. I air on the side of the victim. Because too many women have been silenced about their truths and their stories.
so the children here are not the victim?
Gulliver is also a victim.
Everyone who reads my posts knows I am passionate about defending victims. But I am also pragmatic when it comes to divorce and custody cases.
Based simply on facts, not assumptions, not projections, not personal stories, not referencing other situations; Donya’s history with her children means there is room for doubt. I can see how everyone came to different conclusions because it isn’t cut and dry.
Oldman is still an a hole though. I am not sure she isn’t too.
I clocked those MRA talking points as well and it was a red flag. Also, the effusive way he talks about his father really creeped me out. Someone in the comments said that it reads like a letter from a cult member, and I agree.
I do believe women, I err on the side of believing children though, as I was that child. This is a hard one, I actually question this letter’s authenticity. If it is authentic, then I’ll believe this young man, just like I believe Dylan Farrow.
It’s tough, but Donya’s story is Oldman hit her with the phone while she was calling 911 and the boys were watching. Her testimony put the boys in it, and then she tried to refuse to have the boys speak to the police. They did speak to the police, and said what they says now, and the police believed them. Supposedly there were other witnesses to her making false allegations, i.e. makeup artist who said she told them to make her up like she was beaten etc. Sure her story could be true, but there are a lot of holes to it, and Oldman could be telling the truth. The courts and police believed Oldman, and she has very little relationship with any of her three kids except Gulliver who made the statement. He was the one who came to see her and was texting her a bit about after she had a diabetes scare. Her daughter from Finchner doesn’t acknowledge her much, and she got angry on twitter a few years ago and said David Fincher didn’t have Phelix by himself I’m her mother. Phelix seems to think of her step mom more as her mom. So she is kind of messed up to say the least.
Yeah I’m not very comfortable with the posts saying “he was just a small child!”, “He grew up only hearing one side!”, “children can be manipulated!”. Is that not the same arguments of those who say you can’t believe Dylan Farrow? So we just dismiss people who were actually there as soon as they don’t back up the story we want to hear? That’s troubling.
This, because it’s really a bad place to start just discounting evidence just because it doesn’t fit with the accusation. Oldman will be fine (he just won an Oscar so clearly this didn’t impact) but I worry about living in a world that just discounts evidence.
All I know is two drunks/addicts in a relationship is a disaster. Meanwhile just before or when this older son was born Oldman got sober and stayed sober. The mother did not. Who is the responsible parent? My nephew came home from school every day to a drunk Mum. Worse many active addicts can be extremely toxic if not borderline. The lies are the worst part. All I know is a household without drugs and alcohol is what all kids deserve.
Boy, this story really hit home for me. My older sister was in an abusive marriage since she was 18. Like any good mother, she hid (most of) the abuse – the beatings, rapes, the deliberate financial impoverishment etc. – from her children. I still remember seeing the bruises and bandages on her when she came to visit us at home, and her reasons for them: “I dropped the heavy box and it broke 3 of my fingers; I accidentally burned my arm with the hot saucepan; The has gt rough while we were playing. And accidentally head-butted me…” He also molested children, including me, my younger sister, and eventually, his own 4-year-old granddaughter. This is when my sister finally left him. His 3 sons, despite us having the conversations, and despite their father physically abusing them, are still in denial and continue to blame their mother for “everything changing”, even though they were all adults living their own lives by then. Typically, the only one who stuck by her, who believes her, is their only daughter. She cut her father off dead, and has always refused to discuss him. My sister suspects that he may have sexually abused her. It’s as if the sons think, “Well, we didn’t see anything, therefore, nothing happened.” This has caused her even more heartache, because they rarely visit her and blame her for breaking up the family and the assets. I fear she’ll never have peace, and will go to her grave happily, voluntarily and sooner rather than later.
He who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. I feel it’s a similar situation with the Oldman sons. Who knows what they did or didn’t see, or what they’ve been told or not told? It’s just horrible.
I’m so sorry your family had to deal with that horrible monster, AnnaKist. I’m glad your sister finally got out. That takes a lot of strength, especially the longer you’ve been in that type of situation. My mother married a monster. We got away after five years, the damage will take a lifetime to heal.
Positive thoughts to you and your family, I hope your nephews can heal enough to accept what they do not want to. I hope for healing for you all.
Casey Affleck had everything to do with the time’s up movement, sexual harassment in the workplace of two employees, a civil suit of regarding that and regarding not being given credit in the documentary. I can’t remember the specifics of the lawsuit that was filed. And it was a fairly recent event, only a couple of years before the Oscars.
This domestic abuse allegation was what, 18 years ago? He was not found guilty of the allegations. There was a contentious divorce. She lost custody of her children and her daughter from Fincher. She and Gary were alcoholics. She was a drug addict. She never straightened up and all of her children basically became estranged from her as the years went on and obviously more issues with her. You can’t decide to be judge and jury on this issue so long ago and say it should affect his career or whether receives an Oscar. This is where the time’s up movement hurts itself .
Gary’s first wife, Lesley Manville, was up for an Oscar as best supporting actress in Phantom Thread, and had Gary’s oldest son Alfie, who is 29, with her at the Oscars. She said it was a big moment for the son, having both parents up for an Oscar. She said she was happy for Gary when he won. She said when her son learned both were nominated he called his father. Lesley in an interview: ‘The announcement came out at 5.30 am in LA – lunchtime here. My son woke up Gary and said, “Hey, Dad, you’ve got a nomination and – guess what? – so has Mum!” ‘Alfie thought it was hilarious. It’s a win-win for the family really. It’s pretty big for him.’
Casey Affleck and his confidential settlement regarding workplace sexual harassment is right in line with the time’s up movement.
I really wish Uma would talk about her time Oldman. Because there were rumblings for YEaRS that the reason they divorced was hecause he was physically abusive towards her. Lesley Manville having a cordial relationship with Oldman has literally nothkng to do with the subject at hand. Guess what? My father abused my mother for YEARS and still she managed to maintain a cordial relationship with him for my sake. One has nothing to do with the other. What I find most telling about Oldman is that this is a man who has been married five times. And with maybe the exception of Manville (who in that quote you posted didnt actually say anything at all about Oldman as a person) none of them have anything nice to say about him. In fact Manville famously said about Oldman years ago and and his role as a parent “he plays a small part, with the accent on the small, however much you might read in the Press about how wonderful a father he is”. Thurman: “It takes a soecial kind of woman to put up with him”
He was not found not guilty of the allegations because he was never charged with domestic violence.
Her daughter from Fincher – supports her dad, doesn’t support her. Her sons from Oldman support their dad, don’t support her. She lost custody of all three kids. Kids are ready to protect the father.
My sympathy with the kids, it’s so good they got away from her.
You are the most rational person here.
Two separate issues. A person can be a bad parent but still be a victim of abuse.
This is true, but this is about Gulliver her son. Donya’s original accusation was that Oldman hit her with the phone while calling 911 in front of Gulliver. He claimed at the time it didn’t happen and claims now it didn’t happen. She said he was there, and she brought him into it. A lot on here are discounting him because he was young. Fine but you choose not believe him, and believe her even though the evidence is murky at best, and she admits to her drug issues.
Gulliver with the MRA talking points.
Thank you, voice of reason.
I remember reading the interview from his In 2014, I think it was in Playboy of all things, but a couple of the news outlets ran it. Everything he said in that interview made me cringe and think he has some anger issues. I think Gulliver is loathe to bite the hands that feeds him and he notes “half truths”, so there is truth somewhere even by his own admission. And, well, even if half of what she said is true, it’s pretty damn disturbing.
Politely, I will say to you judgmental folks – you weren’t there. You don’t know what happened and yet you are making some very damning judgments, ie Gary is violent; the courts favoured Oldman and Fincher because they were powerful; and now accusing Gulliver of being manipulated, all because it feeds your hatred of Gary Oldman. Hypocritical? I would say so, because you believe the exact opposite in the Farrow case.
That goes for you too. And everyone defending Oldman. We are all giving our opinions on this story. There are just as many people on this thread judging Donya as ther are judging Oldman. It goes both ways. None of us were there so maybe we should all pack it in.
I got a lot of backlash for standing up for Oldman. So, reading this just made me happy to hear that those kids got normal childhood, or whatever is close to normal in Hollywood.
He’s not Affleck. No one was paid off, there’s no NDA and no power, since at the time Oldman was a mess and his net Worth isn’t that big. I think people make mistakes and both parents made them the moment they started dating while in rehab. Also, don’t dismiss kids. They see things clearly most of the time. They cannot process some of the events which is different.
You should have stopped at “damning judgements.”
The rates at which batterers receive sole or joint custody of children in domestic violence cases is alarming. Some studies have suggested 70% or more of cases the abuser is granted sole/joint custody of the children. There is a gender bias in the legal system against women. Fortunately, this is an issue that is being researched extensively and advocated against.
I am a social worker and regularly work with domestic violence victims. In domestic violence situations, the children are typically used as another effort to exert control over the victim. In custody disputes with allegations of abuse, when the father rushes to my office to share ‘his side’ of the situation, it is usually another attempt to manipulate the situation. These men are typically charming and skilled at manipulating others into believing their version of events.
I am sorry, but the Oldham family’s statement wreaks of another attempt to discredit a victim of abuse.
For a quick read, the following link discusses the gender bias, in the legal system, for cases of domestic violence.
http://www.protectiveparents.com/rates-batterers-receive-custody.pdf
You are truly to be credited and thanked for your work as a social worker. Unfortunately you are characterizing this case incorrectly. The DV allegations were there (no charges) when she lost physical custody in 2001, but she lost because she OD’d in the presence of her young daughter and could not stay clean. But she had visitation. In 2003 she made a claim that Oldman was drugging one of the children and was using. That was investigated and tests were run. It was a lie. So she lost most of (all of?) her visitation. By lying and trying to discredit the other parent. There is no record in the time she had visitation of Oldman interfering with that. I get what you’re saying in your post but the fact is she lost custody because she lied, unrelated to her initial DV allegations.
(Sorry I work in the legal field, I’m long-winded).
Thank you for posting that since numerous people keep claiming that abusers don’t get custody.
Idk what to think about this case. She claims he beat her in front of their kids, which their son denies, she lost custody of her other daughter who also supports her father’s version. But still, Oldman has had those violent rumors around not just with her.
If she was abused by him, I hope she finds justice and he gets what he deserves. But I wouldn’t be so quick to judge bc a lot of things don’t add up.
What’s kind of sad is that every year, Donya posts sweet instagram messages to Oldman and Fincher to wish them a Happy Father’s Day. (She also posts mother’s day messages to her children, and it’s sad because it’s all pictures of the kids when they were little – she clearly has no recent pictures of them.)
Up until recently, she would acknowledge that Oldman was a terrible husband, but avoided demonizing him and took responsibility for her role in the bad marriage/bad parenting situation.
I think The Daily Mail paid her to revive all of this stuff and she needed the money. It’s unfortunate, because it probably wrecked her chances of repairing her relationships with her sons.
If she does that it looks very creepy on her side. Also if she is ready to trash her ex in media for money, as you suggest, she clearly doesn’t care for any restoration of relationships with her sons.
I feel sorry for her, it’s awful that she hasn’t been able to be involved in her children’s lives. That’s always bad, regardless of the reasons why. Sounds like she’s more or less clean and sober now, which is great.
I have no idea about whether her claims against Oldman are legitimate or not. They were both in the throes of addiction, anger and toxic emotions, and it’s completely plausible there was violence in the relationship, perhaps on both sides. Also, I don’t think it’s that rare for jilted parties to make grandiose or even outright false allegations.
(I know several vindictive and bitter people, my parent included, who would love nothing more than to serve up such a cold dish of revenge as to bring this out in the light right before an Oscar campaign. Not saying that’s what I think has happened, just saying it can, some people are super bitter and just stuck there).
Perhaps the toxicity of their relationship caused him or both of them to sink to abusive lows that were uncharacteristic and never-repeated afterwards? It doesn’t seem to be a pattern for Oldman, in any event. Although he seems like a crap husband all around.