Over the weekend, Denmark’s Prince Joachim and his wife Princess Marie gave another interview. Previously, Joachim spoke, on camera, to a Danish media outlet soon after his mother Queen Margrethe yanked his four children’s royal titles. Joachim was very upset and he said the children are upset too. He made it sound like he was barely given any notice. His two sons by his first wife are in their 20s, but his two younger children, Henrik and Athena, are just 13 and 10. And they just got bullied by their grandmother in public. Well, after the kids’ titles were yanked, it feels like Joachim and Marie are ready to speak out against Margrethe… and Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary. Some highlights from this weekend’s interview:
Athena is already being bullied: Princess Marie said that Athena is being bullied at school after the decision was publicly announced earlier this week. ‘They come and say (to Athena): Is it you who is no longer a princess?,’ Princess Marie told Danish news outlet BT. She said her children were put under the public spotlight and feels the need to defend them, especially now after her youngest is being picked on. ‘The children were publicly exhibited. At very short notice. This means that we, as parents, have not had time to prepare them for the change and people’s reactions,’ she added.
Joachim & Marie discussed Frederik & Mary: Joachim and Marie said they have not spoken to the Crown couple, with Marie describing the relationship as ‘complicated’. The prince added that they have not yet spoken to the Queen either. Commenting on Crown Princess Mary’s point that her children may too lose titles in the future, Joachim said: ‘I don’t know how they feel if they have to think it through. Now is preparation time. We didn’t have that.’
A proper way: Speaking about the monarch’s intention to slim down the Danish royal family, he said: ‘The reality must still be: whether you modernize or slim down, it must be done in a proper way. It’s about children. Orderliness and children. It is a very heavy matter.’ Meanwhile, referencing the idea of a slimmed down monarchy, Marie said: ‘I don’t think it’s modern to have some injured children.’
In this interview, Joachim and Marie indicated that they’re “not thinking of leaving the Danish royal house. Instead, they will continue their work in their own way – even if the family is divided like never before,” according to Hello. What’s interesting about that is that Joachim, Marie and their two young kids live in Paris now. In early 2019, they moved to Paris for what was supposed to be a temporary military training program for Joachim. Then Joachim had a stroke in 2020. At the time, people were told that Joachim decided to keep his family in France and take a position as defense attache at the Danish embassy. Now that move is being seen in a different light though – perhaps an effort from Margrethe, Frederik and Mary to exile him. In 2021, Marie came right out and said that the move to France wasn’t their “choice.” As in, they were exiled.
There are also new and old quotes about how Joachim has “felt humiliated and ignored for a long time” and that the issue with his children’s titles will not be “the last word in the matter.”
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid.
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- La Princesse Marie et le Prince Joachim du Danemark NEWS : Foreign Heads of State and Government received at the Ely,Image: 538443329, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Stephen Caillet / Panoramic / Panoramic / Avalon
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- Prince Joachim and Princess Marie of Denmark look on as they leaves The Elysee Presidential Palace in Paris on September 30, 2019, following a luncheon after a church service for former French President Jacques Chirac. Former French President Jacques Chirac died on September 26, 2019 at the age of 86. USA, OZ, NZ, SOUTH AFRICA, JAPAN, AND CHINA ONLY Photograph: © CRYSTAL/PacificCoastNews. Los Angeles Office (PCN): +1 310.822.0419 UK Office (Avalon): +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 sales@pacificcoastnews.com,Image: 538462215, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: USA, OZ, NZ, SOUTH AFRICA, JAPAN, AND CHINA ONLY – Los Angeles Office (PCN): +1 310.822.0419 UK Office (Avalon): +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 sales@pacificcoastnews.com, Model Release: no, Credit line: CRYSTAL/PacificCoastNews / Avalon
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- 2019-02-20 FREDENSBORG PALACE DENMARK Royal Danish Family at Memorial Concert: Queen Margrethe invites the Royal family, a number of Prince Henrik?s close friends, other representatives from the Royal House and others guests to a memorial concert for Prince Henrik in Fredensborg Palace Church. Prince Henrik passed away in February 2018. Picture: Prince Joachim and Princess Marie arrival to Fredensborg. COPYRIGHT: Stellapictures,Image: 563557847, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: UK, USA and AUS ONLY – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, Model Release: no, Credit line: Stefan Lindblom / Stella Pictures / Avalon
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- ** RIGHTS: ONLY UNITED STATES, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, NEW ZEALAND ** Paris, FRANCE – Prince Joachim of Denmark, Princess Marie of Denmark, Prince Frederik of Denmark, and Princess Mary of Denmark attend a dinner event at the City Hall of Paris in honor of the Princely Couple of Denmark. Pictured: Prince Joachim of Denmark, Princess Marie of Denmark, Prince Frederik of Denmark, Princess Mary of D BACKGRID USA 8 OCTOBER 2019 BYLINE MUST READ: Best Image / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- ** RIGHTS: ONLY UNITED STATES, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, NEW ZEALAND ** Paris, FRANCE – Prince Joachim of Denmark, Princess Marie of Denmark, Prince Frederik of Denmark, and Princess Mary of Denmark attend a dinner event at the City Hall of Paris in honor of the Princely Couple of Denmark. Pictured: Prince Joachim of Denmark, Princess Marie of Denmark, Prince Frederik of Denmark, Princess Mary of D BACKGRID USA 8 OCTOBER 2019 BYLINE MUST READ: Best Image / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- ** RIGHTS: ONLY UNITED STATES, AUSTRALIA, CANADA, NEW ZEALAND ** Paris, FRANCE – Prince Joachim of Denmark, Princess Marie of Denmark, Prince Frederik of Denmark, and Princess Mary of Denmark attend a dinner event at the City Hall of Paris in honor of the Princely Couple of Denmark. Pictured: Prince Joachim of Denmark, Princess Marie of Denmark, Prince Frederik of Denmark, Princess Mary of D BACKGRID USA 8 OCTOBER 2019 BYLINE MUST READ: Best Image / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Copenhagen, DENMARK – Prince Joachim and Princess Marie with Prince Nikolai and Prince Felix of Denmark attending the Gala performance for the Queen her 50th Jubilee of Government on Gamle Scene in the Royal Theatre’s Old Stage in Copenhagen. Pictured: Prince Joachim, Princess Marie, Prince Nikolai, Prince Felix of Denmark BACKGRID USA 10 SEPTEMBER 2022 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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What is happening over in Denmark? This is getting messier by the day. I didn’t know the Danish royals were messy.
I was Googling about this yesterday, and one website had a history of Margrethe’s marriage – looks like the messiness goes back a long time!
Margrethe and Henrik married for love. They had their issues like any other couple, but also shared many interests. We also have to remember Henrik suffered from Alzheimer’s, which clearly affected his behavior and thinking for years.
@Grace, except Henrik had been kvetching about not being made King Consort long before the onset of his Alzheimer’s disease. He had been generally complaining a great deal about feeling “overlooked” and “disrespected” (much in the same vein as Joachim here, actually) for decades.
The fact that he and Queen Margarethe married for love, and had a good relationship with each other, doesn’t change the fact that he complained a lot about feeling “injured”, long before he had Alzheimer’s. So let’s please not use that one instance where he talked about it prior to his death as something that excuses all of the instances before. He didn’t have Alzheimer’s the whole time Margarethe was Queen.
@A. Sounds like Joachim is a lot like his father.
@MissMarirose, in Henrik’s case, and to his credit, some of that kvetching was motivated by the fact that he did do a lot for the DRF and the monarchy as a whole, and he wasn’t appropriately recognized for it, either through a commensurate rank or some other sort of acknowledgement. I imagine being there for Margarethe as a vital pillar of support in and of itself was a lot of that, but it’s not the sort of public facing work that gets written home about.
It’s unfortunate that he felt like he had to take his issues public in order to be able to get some recourse for them, but it makes sense if the truth is that Margarethe is, as another comment here says, just averse to confrontations as a whole. He might have felt like he had no other choice.
Joachim, on the other hand, does none of that. The story with him seems to be nothing but entitlement on top of entitlement. Comparing him to Harry, like some of the comments here are doing, to me is just appalling, bc they are nothing alike. There are rumours he cheated on his first wife, who is the one with the non-white ancestry, who was beloved by everyone including Margarethe, with Marie, a white woman of “aristocratic” descent. Note the statements and the comments put out by the two women as well. Only one of them is still complaining about it, and no surprises as to who it is.
Joachim also doesn’t live in Denmark, or do much work for the DRF, but expects that they will continue to fund him and his children. He expects to maintain his status on the public dime. He is several degrees worse than Henrik actually was, imo.
All royal families are messy because it is a completely abnormal way to live.
Exactly.
It’s stripping away their identity
Marie should stop complaining. Isn’t that what she said about Meghan?
Yep! LOL
Missed that. Any reference or link to when she said that about Meghan?
BURN! Here for it!
Yep. I am over her. Apparently Meghan should have been quiet. But now that it’s her every freaking day they are in the press. And don’t care about how they are “damaging” the RF. Bah.
Yup that was her. At this point people need to keep negative comments about Meghan out of their mouths. Karma is something eh ?
As much as I sympathize with them they’re too dramatic and whiney now. I hope when Charles take away the kids titles Harry and Meghan issue a simple statement and move on.
Let’s say they do. That won’t stop the public from talking about it. Especially if it’s only Archie and Lili lose their titles and no one else.
The public can talk about it but Harry and Meghan talking as much as these two have would not be a good look.
@Woke: I don’t expect Harry and Meghan to say anything when Charles strips Archie and Lili of their titles. They’re out of the system now, it would have meant something if they were still in the UK and Charles did it.
I was just waiting to see when and who was going to bring in Harry and Meghan, didn’t have to wait long 😳
I think there is a wind of discord blowing through Europe right now, almost like long-buried tensions surrounding class, power, and race are all accelerating towards some sort of epochal climax. Very biblical stuff, too. “Fathers against sons, mothers against daughters”, etc. The Windsors may be temporarily happy that this is occurring, but they should be mindful that this much less juicy drama will only heighten appetite for more Windsor dysfunction when this one dies down. The Kardashification of European monarchy. I love it.
You have an incredible way with words. Marvellous imagery!
It’s clear that there is bad blood with in the Danish royal family and if anyone is going to be publicly airing the family laundry now it’s these 2.
I’ve seen a lot of gossip pointing the finger at CP Mary who made no secret that she did not like either of them.
Mary is the original kHate is the cut price copy keen.
Except Joachim and Marie aren’t exactly the nicest people around either. Especially Joachim, who’s apparently extremely rude, entitled, and acts like that in public. He is unpopular in Denmark compared to Mary and Frederick for a reason.
I don’t know abt CP Mary and her being the OG Kate, but let’s not make Joachim the victim here, lmao.
Yeah. Joakim and Marie aren’t great persons. They are basically what Meghan haters say that the Sussexes are. They work less than Waity and they get 3 million Dkr a year. Joachim desperately wants to hang onto that public money so he doesn’t have to live of his very large private fortune.
Regarding Mary, there’s a really palpable hate against her in certain corners on the internet that has been there since she married Fred. Some really gross stuff has been said about her that is clearly not rooted in reality.
Marie is a bit shady as well – I remember when she went the tabloid route to roll out her status as royal girlfriend – and that came across as very thirsty.
The spin by some posters to make Joachim and Marie some Danish H&M and victims of big, bad M&F is really insane. Marie has never been popular so Mary has no reason to be jealous. Joachim hasn’t been popular since his divorce. They barely work and Danes want more M&F and The Queen. That’s the reality.
This is deeply unfair to Mary, who is nothing like Kate. Mary has legitimate reasons to dislike Joachim & Marie.
I’m sorry, but these men married the same woman down to the names. I’m just tickled by the fact that their names and look are so similar.
This has so many parallels to what’s happening with the British Royal Family, with the idea of stripping titles and animosity between the heirs and spares. Public outcry. Hurt. Spiteful decision-making. Press spin. All of it. Is it to distract from something else more sinister? Are monarchies slimming down to consolidate wealth and power? Something is afoot. And it isn’t a bunion.
“Something is afoot. And it isn’t a bunion” I am DECEASED ☠️
Anyway, also agree with you that something is up, have no idea what it is, but I also have no doubt that Charles is scheming about to use all this to his advantage. Somehow.
Princess Mary works on anti-bullying initiatives for children, so it looks like Marie has declared war. 🤣 All is not well in the state of Denmark.
What she’s describing though isn’t bullying. I hate that anytime someone has something negative said to them, it’s bullying. Bullying is not that simple as kids asking why she isn’t a princess anymore.
THANK YOU!
Joachim and Marie are being so dramatic that it makes the think the truth is actually somewhere in the middle of the 2 stories and that they probably chose not to prepare their children, thinking they could stall it something?
Joachim strikes me as an Andrew type when it comes to arrogance, entitlement and pomposity. And Marie truly comes across as a hypocrite now after what she said about Meghan.
@ShazBot that’s what I’m starting to think, that all of this public complaining is because they made a mistake and thought that QM would not go through with it? But it also sounds like it was really messy on her part.
I think if Marie and Joachim were more focused on the “how” this happened aspect of this and less on the fact that it happened they might come across as more sympathetic?
Thank you! I read that and went, this is not bullying.
If what several of you are saying is true about their parents I doubt the children have had good roll models at home for how to handle their losses. Loosing your identity can be a shock and an embarrassment especially if your status was built-in. On top of it you’re at the age where other kids can be insensitive.
The princes two eldest sons are biracial…. And the unspoken racism of it all feels very House of Windsor to me. I guess the Danish Queen is a racist too and that’s why she’s chosen to slim the monarchy in such an unnecessarily dramatic fashion.
That is nonsense! The Queen was, and still is, very fond of Alexandra!
The Queen, and the Danes, are way more fond of Alexandra than Marie. Joachim married up with his first wife and everyone knows it. The Queen made her a life peer, countess of Frederiksborg and the government granted her a pension of roughly $330,000/yr. This she voluntarily relinquished when her youngest son turned 18. And she still attends many royal events. Margarethe also gave her a lovely and historic tiara that belonged to her grandmother and was Margarethe’s own 18th birthday gift. She only loaned Marie one.
MarcelMarcel, what puzzles me is that the two oldest grandchildren are in their 20s and they would lose the Prince title upon their 25th birthday. If I’m wrong about that, I hope someone will correct me. Why even do anything? If so, then get something out that once the youngest of the two became 25 the youngest two children would also lose their titles. She could also change it so that once you are 18 you lose the title but let the two older keep theirs until 25. It would still be messy as heck for the younger ones, but there would have been plenty of warning. I just don’t understand.
What we are talking about here is not bullying, though. I’m sure Athene feels awful and exposed, but bullying is something much more dreadful and often fatal to people/kids who have nowhere to hide and no shield from it. Using this triggering word for drama just makes them sound like whiny rich people with first world problems.
“Princess Marie said that Athena is being bullied at school after the decision was publicly announced earlier this week. ‘They come and say (to Athena): Is it you who is no longer a princess?,’”
Yeah, this sounds like someone simply asking for clarification that Athena was the one mentioned in the news, not bullying.
Bullying would be if they sang “hahaha you’re not a princess!” or something.
Omigod….first world problems
Something may not be translating directly into English/American English so I wouldn’t focus too much on that specific word. It does seem that what’s going on with youngest daughter at school is bullying (multiple kids calling out and teasing another) and how the Q did this was unkind WRT the impact on the kids, publicly and with little or no notice.
If this is what they think bullying is they are indeed very privileged never to have experienced bullying, or prejudiced. And didn’t she tell Meghan to “stop complaining” over actual legitimate issues? No sympathy for these people or their kids. They still better off than 99.999% of the population.
This is classic Joachim and Marie – they are incredibly tone deaf. This is like them complaining that the press and the public criticized them for not dotting all their Is and Ts before taking their public money abroad. Crying that it is unfair to criticize them for peak entitled behaviour because they love Denmark. I can’t with them. They never did much for all that money and they only started demanding a larger presence within the royal family after Joachim sold his estate for a extremely large profit at the same time that the public and the press started to ask whether he should continue getting public money.
He basically wants to continue to suck at the teat of the public – and I suspect that there’s a quiet power struggle BTS in the DRF. However, I do think Daisy stepped in it with this decision because it primarily hits the children. And it was handled gracelessly. But neither can we take all Joachim and Marie’s statements at face value. There’s chatter that this move have been discussed for 5 months and that Joachim was given the opportunity to come with a counter proposal – and instead he just dragged his feet because he is adamantly opposed to his children loosing their royal titles. The fact is that the children of the spares loose their titles upon marriage. That is what happened to Prince Knud’s children (he was Christian IX’s brother). They were always going to loose their titles. But I do think that the manner was done in a very insensitive way – and that is due to Daisy’s flaws (she doesn’t like conflict).
Them losing their titles when they get married is being completely left out of this conversation. None of their titles were hereditary and their parents should have been emphasizing that their entire lives.
I would hope Isabella and maybe Josephine are aware by now that they will lose their title when they get married and wouldn’t be so attached to it. Huge difference between Danish eldest princess and UK Princess Royal. Vincent will keep his title upon marriage but would he still want it if Christian is married with 2/3 kids. These conversations need to be happening now so there are no hurt feelings in the future.
Why would Frederik’s daughters lose their titles upon marriage when the Queen’s sisters haven’t?
Margrethe’s sisters married royalty – Benedikte married a German prince and Anne-Marie married the King of Greece. Therefore Benedikte retained her princess title and Anne-Marie got a title upgrade from princess to queen.
@cee @arthistorian
It also doesn’t make sense for the daughter of a King to lose her Princess title and become a Countess upon marriage but the children of the male spare of a monarch are still Prince/ss. That will never work. Imagine if Isabella, daughter of a King, is married before Athena turns 25 and Isabella is a Countess, 2nd in line, and Athena still a Princess, 9th in line.
The biggest problem here is that no one other than maybe Nikolai should have been given a Princely title because Fred didn’t have children at the time. He then should have lost his title on his 18 birthday.
In the past, the heirs of the spares have lost their titles when they married commoners. That is why Prince Knud’s daughter never married her partner. A royal title was more important to her than being married. Her brother lost his princely title when he married, he is now the Count of Rosenborg (ironically, he would have been King if the public hadn’t voted to change the Law of Succession).
There is no consistent precedent when it comes to royal titles in Denmark. In 150 years ago all had titles, spare and the children of the spares (and they all had aristocratic and princely marriages). When they no longer married other royals and aristocrats, they lost they royal titles. There need to be a consistent policy about this issue within the DRF. So they need to put their thinking caps on and find a solution.
Joachim didn’t accuse his mother or CP couple of bullying their kids. I don’t even think the situation with Athena is bullying. Just a curious and blunt question coming from a child. Marie is being dramatic.
i agree – Queen Margarethe taking away the titles may be crappy, but it’s not bullying. Kids saying “haha you’re not a princess anymore!” is kid behavior– it’s not bullying. I am so sick of the overuse of ‘bullying’ because it minimizes when ACTUAL bullying occurs.
It doesn’t seem like they were even saying “haha” or saying “you’re not a princess.” It sounds like she was just getting simple questions- “,was that you they said is no longer a princess?”
Feeling awkward or uncomfortable is not being bullied.
If I go to some co-worker and tell her: “I heard yesterday that you’ve miscarried and that you’re being let go by the end of the month. That’s you, right? Just asking.” THIS IS BULLYING, ladies. Rubbing salt in the wound, even with the best intention of desinfecting it, causes additional pain, especially if the kid didn’t show any desire to discuss the issue with schoolmates.
Prying in itself is a micro aggression. Prying is bullying. It doesn’t have to be mocking or verbally violent, it just has to hurt unnecessarily.
Spot on… and worse was that her own grandmother set her up for it, whether knowingly or unknowingly. How can a child be expected to handle a different identity well when their own parents don’t?
It may not be considered bullying, but it IS rude behavior. The kids may not realize it is rude and are just being curious but that doesn’t excuse it. The youngest, Athena, is 10 and most 10 year olds know what is rude and what is okay to say, unless they truly have stupid parents. By that age I knew pointing to people was rude and not to openly stare at people who looked different to me.
The Danish royals now have their very own Harry and Meghan. Just the latest example of the toxicity of the “heir and the spare” dynamic. All monarchies should be abolished. The sooner the better. Having said that, Joachim and Marie are clearly exploiting the situation.
Completely agree. This is a mirror image of what happened with Andrew. They create entitled brats and then are super shocked when they act entitled adults!
There are just giving reasons for the monarchy to be done with. With all the money they have, they can’t figure out how to communicate?
Spares all need an education and an actual external career. A spare is not a vocation.
It has been messy for a while. People outside Denmark just didn’t pay any attention like they do to the BRF. According to reports Mary and Marie never liked each other. There has also been rumours surrounding Mary and Fredrick’s marriage in relation to Fred keeping in touch with his ex Katja Storkholm, the woman he had proposed to first allegedly. Joachim cheating on his first wife with his current wife. Margaret he’s late husband bad mouthing her for not giving him the King consort title etc.
When remembering what Margrethe’s deceased husband spoke of her, we also have to remember he had an advanced Alzheimer’s disease when he gave many of those controversial interviews in which he badmouthed his wife, and that affected his thinking and behavior. That’s not just a rumor, it was told by the court when he retired from public life. No doubt there were problems in their marriage just like in any marriage, but I still believe there were good times and love as well. Margrethe and Henrik shared many interest like art and literature, and I remember reading an interview Margrethe gave when she was about 50 in which she said it gave her great security to know she could wake her husband up in the middle of the night if she needed him.
He also created erotic sculptures for her.
Royalty is not fit for purpose. It only damages people and ruin their lives.
Exactly!
– Henrik of Denmark: 13 years a Prince.
– Athena of Denmark: 10 years a Princess.
It would have been wiser to not grant them any title from birth, but removing them at this stage is unwise and cruel : it thwarts a child’s construction of identity and search for self-definition. These children now have to work with a therapist to learn how to redefine themselves after they’ve been amputated from their social, historical and family heritage.
In 15 years from now, Joachim’s children will stand in front of the Danish Parliament and testify to emergency of abolishing a political system that perpetrates social inequalities and causes irreversible psychological damage.
What Queen Margrethe is doing isn’t racist per se, it lacks political anticipation and discernment. The silly old Queen provides the missing step towards enabling the monarchy to die from its own inability to fulfil its share of the contract: offering stability.
Okay, but is it even a good idea to allow children to “construct identities” around their status as royalty in the first place? Isn’t this irreparably damaging and harmful to them as well, to have children center their identity on a concept that inherently makes them believe they are better than other people, purely because of an accident of birth?
Also, the way most children form an identity of themselves, especially around a concept like this, is when something is repeatedly emphasized TO them to form an identity around. If that is actually what happened here, to the degree where losing those titles is a crisis of identity for such young children, then what it actually is is a sincere testament to just how awful Joachim and Marie’s parenting actually was, bc they raised those kids to center their identity and self-worth around a ranking system that prioritizes accidental luck, vs. earned merit and hard work.
That’s actually why I don’t buy Joachim and Marie’s whinging about this when they talk about how “hurt” and “confused” their children are. Their younger children are confused, that’s believable. They may be hurt that their grandma made this decision without appropriate consultation–whether it was important to them or not to retain these titles, being given the respect of a proper discussion means everything to a child. But I don’t think it’s much more deep than that, for the children at least. The rest of it is just Joachim and Marie being endlessly salty abt what this means for them. Their children are just useful conduits for communicating that.
Oh please. They were going to lose their titles when they married anyway. The Queen has only accelerated the timeline. If they have “trauma” from the loss of their identities, it’s primarily because their father didn’t start preparing them for this inevitability from the start.
Voluntarily giving up a title as an adult because you’ve made a decision to marry is in no way comparable to suddenly stripping a titles from children.
Darling asking ‘Is it you who is no longer a princess?’ is not bullying. Especially if that kid who was asked has flaunted their title and status before. Don’t tell me that it was flaunted. Just… sit down.
I never knew there was so much drama in the Danish Royal Family.
This is THE argument Joachim and family want to use as to why his children should retain their prince/ss titles? That is insane.
This just wasn’t executed correctly.
Just take all the titles and abolish the entire monarchy pls. If you can remove titles for non heirs you can do the same for the heirs. Same for British monarchy, remove them all. It’s time for just 1 HOS with 1 house and security for his or her family only. I will still stan Harry and Meghan without their titles.
People need to stop comparing Marie and Joachim to Meghan and Harry..as it’s deeply unfair to Meghan and Harry. If anything,, Marie and Joachim are more like Will & Kate. And I completely buy the rumor that the Queen told them several months ago.
This is not even remotely the same situation.
@div
Marie might be like Kate but
Joachim is not like William at all. Rather Frederik is..
I think the comparisons to BRF are pointless but if you insist because that’s within the context that you can frame this then:
Much like Harry Joachim was more popular than his brother the heir for the longest time and he married a more accomplished POC woman. When he went off script that changed.
FYI some of the major newspapers In denmark are criticising the queen and asking if it was necessary to do this ( there was no public/political pressure and his kids don’t get any money) so it’s also not remotely like in the UK where the press is firmly behind Buckingham palace.
Also they write that he’s been hard working and well prepared in his job so the comparison to william doesn’t track in that way either.
Joachim has NEVER been more popular than his brother here in Denmark!!! I say this as as a Dane. Even when he married Alexandra. People loved her and not him. I know there’s an alternate reality spread about on message boards by people who aren’t Danish and have never lived here. ‘
Fred has always been more easy-going and better at interacting with people than his brother. I know several people who have met him in a private capacity. Joachim, sadly, has always been rather awkward – and he has always been super entitled. He literally cannot stand that people criticize him for anything, even legitimate stuff like why he just ignored the rules for taking his apanage abroad.
He and his wife works less than Waity and William. They always have because he was never supposed to be a full-time royal. He was GIVEN an estate for this very reason. He sold his estate for a huge profit and now he wants to be more prominent in the DRF because he doesn’t want to loose the public money.
You are peddling a fiction here.
As a black Dane im confused as to were you heard Joachim is the most popular in Denmark?? Frederik and Mary have always been more popular and Joachim has always been seen as his father’s son! Entitled, snobbish and arrogant! And I’d like to point out Countess Alexandra, Joachim’s ex wife has never been treated the way Meghan Markle was. The public and the Queen still love her (if they didn’t why invite her to huge royal family events when they happen??)
I don’t know if it helps, but the Media never focused on Alexandra or her kids ancestry as far as I know the Danish public see them as Danish! Never heard of any animosity when it comes to her! After the divorce there have been some tabloid headlines on who she is dating or not but nothing about her race!
There are a lot of fictions about the DRF being perpetuated on certain internet fora – like RoyalDish and LSA. I think that the RD was founded to hate on Mary. Joachim and Marie are basically used as a stick to hit Mary and Fred in these places. It is weird that there’s a segment of non-Danish Mary haters but that is why you get weird takes like “Joachim is more popular than Fred”.
He used to be more popular way back before his brother married Mary. According to my gran that is. We are talking way back before my time in the 90/early00 so I can’t verify lol
Btw I am also black btw i find it very offputting that some people are making these Mary and Meghan comparisons because some idiots on a royal website dislike her. It’s not remotely the same thing as what Meghan has had to endure.
And even more that we are supposed to act like danish society have no racism… and that Alex was welcomed with open arms everywhere. That seems wilfully naive and I guarantee you that’s not the case and that Alex has her stories.
And while Joachim might be an an arrogant entitled git the white washing of fredrik is quite something…
I am not a royalist so I have no bone in this i am forming opinions by what I read in the local press and what my fam is telling me.
Interestingly BT wrote that the biggest threat to the monarchy is the royal family itself after this drama.
That’s a lot of “complaining and explaining” coming from someone who had a lot of say about Meghan speaking about mental health. While I do feel sad for the children, (especially the 2 youngest) I hope this is a wake up call to other royal institutions on how to accommodate royal spares. Joachim’s experiences sound similar to Harry’s. The only difference is Harry saw the signs and got out just in time. Harry and his children will never have to be dependent on the RF for money or housing. Harry has built himself a legacy independent from the firm that will be passed down to his children. He’s shown you can have a purposeful life outside of the firm & built an easier path for other spares to use.
A key difference is that Joachim doesn’t want to get out BECAUSE he doesn’t want to give up the public money he gets from the tax payers. He really wants to live off the Danish people rather than live off his very large private fortune.
I’ve been wondering if part of the timing of the title change has to do with QM smacking down Joachim for selling his estate? As in, if you’re not going to manage your interests like a royal, I’m not going to treat you like a royal?
This may have been executed ‘poorly’ but in the long term it will be a blip in history and most ppl would agree with the decision.
Very few ppl in Denmark have sympathy for titles being taken away.These people are already incredibly privileged and this news wasn’t even trending in the top 10 for Denmark outside of twitter esp royal twitter.
Joachim, there’s people that are dying
This is the same Joachim who has a large personal fortune that he treats like ol’ Lizzie and Charles do. Bring in extra money so he never has to touch it. And how did he get this fortune? He was given a castle on his wedding and the people of Denmark crowd funded a large sum of money for him as well. He promptly said he was going to use it to “improve” his new family home, did so, and then turned around and sold it for his now large personal fortune.
Please do just the barest amount of research before comparing this man to Harry and Meghan. Harry and Meghan are not pretentious and do a lot of work to help people. Joachim and his second wife (he cheated on his very popular first wife), are far more like William and Kate, have a cushy job arranged for them by their royal connections, and are what people on this site would normally refer to as “Doo-littles”. They’re also insufferably snobby and extremely hung up on titles.
The queen botched the rollout of this announcement, but don’t let this turn into Joachim rewriting history so he gets to come out like Prince Harry. Apples and oranges.
Thank you! These two are nothing like Harry and Meghan . Joachim and Marie are their own worst enemies and they are so freaking entitled in their grievances – there’s a rational reason as to why they are not popular here in Denmark. They ignore rules about the public money they receive and the whine when they get rightfully criticized. They truly believe that they are above any kind of criticism! No one here has any patience with this kind of tone-deaf and entitled behaviour. They rarely did royal “work” even before they moves to France and the public had to pay his alimony to his ex-wife!
So I did some reading about this because I don’t know the DRF as much as the BRF and here are my 2 cents lol.
According to Joachim (who apparently isn’t very popular in Denmark because a lot of people find him whiny and entitled), QMII told them of the plan to remove their titles at 25. I presume Joachim (and Marie) said no because they want their kids to have titles for the rest of their lives. So perhaps (this is my theory), QMII delayed the plans and told J&M to come up with another idea if they don’t like the one she gave. Then they didn’t or perhaps suggested plans QMII didn’t like.
Then QEII died and that probably ended up being a wake up call for Daisy. Hence why she announced it before she died and didn’t want to leave it to Fred to announce. Why did she move it from “everyone loses it when they turn 25” to “everyone loses it as soon as new years”? I don’t know. Maybe she got mad at Joachim for potentially stalling her for 4 months. Again I don’t know.
Now according to some posters the kids were losing their titles anyways when they got married. So why the change to 25 and then new years? Again, I don’t know. Maybe QMII wanted a slimmed down monarchy ASAP.
Can anyone explain to me the utility of being a prince/ss only until age 25? Is this a long-standing tradition or convention? What is its purpose?
In the twisted world of royalty, I can actually understand having a title removed upon marriage, if it was supposed to ensure that children married royalty to keep their titles. (Like the Japanese imperial household.) I mean, it’s a terrible concept, but at least I can understand why it might have been instituted. But a system where children grow up as princes and princesses and then suddenly face adulthood as commoners seems like a recipe for disaster, even with all the privilege they retain.
Losing the titles at 25 isn’t the norm, it was apparently the plan QMII presented to Joachim back in May. As I have mentioned above, I have no idea why she chose to accelerate the timeline. Maybe she didn’t want to wait until the kids were married to lose them or maybe she didn’t want anyone unmarried to keep them until their death. I don’t know.
Ah, thank you. So prior to all of this, kids of the spare would keep their titles for life or until they married? (I’m sorry for my ignorance, I just haven’t followed the DRF closely.)
Whatd up with these royal “spares” who insist on throwing down and refuse to take bs from the monarchies they were brainwashed, er I mean born, to serve? Shame on them! /s. When will Harry and esp Meghan be blamed?
Wealth and privilege aside, imagine taking constant abuse and nonsense for years bc you’re not the heir, told to be happy for whatever scraps you were given, and then your offspring gets publicly demoted and disrespected. I’d be spitting nails too if the monarch reneged and humiliated my biracial kids (the “white” siblings are collateral damage and likely are unaware of the consequences of this action). More proof of the damaging dysfunctional monarchies and why they have no place in this day and age. C-REX is undoubtedly taking notes for his scheme to take the titles of the Sussex children. Like Joachim, I don’t think Harry will take that insult quietly and has no problem speaking his mind!
Wow this has gotten very messy. I don’t know the DRF too well but from what I’ve seen Frederik and Mary are very popular and Mary endeared herself to Danes by learning Danish and embracing her role in the DRF. Maybe they are both terrible behind closed doors, who knows. But it sounds like the relationships are just as complicated as the BRF. I think most spares struggle to figure out their roles in royal families. The roles monarchies play have evolved so much in the 20th century to mostly a figurehead role and many royals now marry commoners instead of other royalty when back in the day it was done to unite dynasties and forge political alliances. There isn’t much of a need for extra royal family members anymore like in the past and it seems every royal family struggles to figure out what to do with the “surplus royals.”
The roll out of this announcement was bungled and awkward. Not sure it could have been done better and maybe Marie and Joachim are terrible people. But it really does affect the kids and it does sound like the kids were caught unawares in this whole thing.
Prince Joachim sounds like his father. He did do a lot of work for the Danish royal family until he was exiled. They had a plan they should have just stuck to it. This also shows why some people want to limit it. Just give George a title and take away Charlotte and Louis. Just the heir. The heir would then be the only working royal. The other children would not. They would be protected until they are 18. It always sounded harsh to me, but I see why now. They do all this work and get exiled at any moment. Prince Henrik and Queen Margerethe had a tumultuous sounding relationship at best. Who said they were so happy? Ever!
The massive egos involved don’t help. Once the kids are older and the younger siblings have helped to stabilize the monarchy the others don’t like to share the spotlight. If they are going to get all the perks they should sacrifice and do the work. Crown Prince Frederick has a duchy that finances his lifestyle and her Birkin bags. They still went over their budget several years and had to get their finances together.
Please do some research. CP Frederik doesn’t have a duchy to finance his life. The Danish royals don’t have estates like that because all of that was taken away from them in 1849 when we abolished the absolutist monarchy where the King was the State. The DRF owns two estates, the small Marselisborg Castle and Chateau Caix in France. The rest of their castle belong to the State and are maintained by the State. They get an annual stipend from the government (called apanage). Traditionally, only the Monarch and the Heir Apparent get apanage (with a certain percentage stipulated for the use of the consort of each). However, for some reason Prince Joachim was given an apanage when he married Alexandra – and as far as I know, Count Ingolf of Rosenborg also get about a million Dkr a year as a consolation price for not becoming King.
@Arthistorian – thanks to you and the other Danish people (or people with better knowledge of this than others, including me) on these threads! Its very helpful for understanding the situation.
Does the DRF have personal wealth the way that QEII did and now Charles does, or are they basically living off their apanage?
Isn’t that part of the reason the Danish monarchy, starting with Christian ix, was ‘poor’ for so long? Neither Christian nor his wife Louise (actually closer to the throne than himself) were cash wealthy and when he came to the throne in 1863 they weren’t well to do at all. Their children married well though—either crowns (Alexandra, Dagmar/Marie) or fabulous wealth (William/George of Greece, Waldemar, thyra). It was their son Frederick VIII’s marriage to Louise of Sweden (the Swedish king’s only surviving child) that brought serious money into the house.
@ArtHistorian, I figured that the reason why Joachim was given an apanage when he married Alexandra was because Frederick was still unmarried, at the time, and Alexandra was the first, real, bonafide princess/fairytale story that the Danish royal family + tabloid press really had at the time. I imagine the calculus was that it wouldn’t be great if the first person to marry into that family in that generation, that close to the monarch, was not provided for by the royal family, plus the Danish people were happy to do so for a public figure that they still seem to really like a great deal.
Margarethe and Alexandra also always seemed very close. Alexandra was given a title in her own right after the divorce. She was gifted a tiara during her marriage that she was never asked to return after the divorce, bc it had never been a loan in the first place (all subsequent jewelry given out to DILs, including CP Mary, have been loans bc of that experience though). Alexandra brought the princess glam as well during her time as Joachim’s wife. And yes, she 100% made Joachim look good, much like so many other royal consorts in this day and age (Diana, Maxima in the Netherlands, Meghan etc).
The Danish RF doesn’t have vast personal wealth like the British, Dutch and Belgian RFs. Mainly because their assets were stripped when Denmark became a democracy (though their wealth was quite diminished after the state bankruptcy of 1814 and the expensive Three-Years War of 1845-48. In an absolutist monarchy the King’s Finances = the State’s finances). Christian XI who inherited the throne was virtually penniless. I can’t yet confirm it but there are stories that the various members of the DRF also lost a lot of money when Denmark’s largest bank went under in 1920.
One thing I’ve been confused by are the people saying the Queen’s decision was r*cially motivated. How can it possibly be r*cism when Queen Margrethe’s decision also affects Prince Joachim’s two youngest children who he has with Princess Marie?
Last time I checked, Marie is white just like her husband. White as the mountains of Caucasus. Unless something has changed: Two white parents equals two white children, non? The Queen gave Alexandra a title after she divorced her son, as a sign of good faith.
All four of Joachim’s children are being treated equitably: They will now be referred to as His and Her Excellency, Count or Countess of Monzepat. Racism is a real thing; arguments like these make a mockery of it. Being called “His Excellency” is discriminatory now? Unless it’s also reverse racism!!! /s
Nikolai may not be able to use “Prince Nikolai” during ads for hotels but he can use “His Excellency”. I can’t believe they’re crying because of this. It’s embarrassing. Margrethe was forced to release her own statement today.
Joachim is his father’s son. Whiney, entitled, egotistical.
I cannot help but notice the pain in this man’s eyes. Pain through betrayal?disloyalty?
I pray that he heals.
Without details I cannot comment appropriately on this matter.
I read that the queen may not have been happy with Prince Nikolai using his title in his modeling work and a recent commercial he did may have been the final straw. Maybe she felt the grandchildren (at least the older ones) needed a wake up call, along with the parents as far as preparing the younger ones to be self reliant and financially independent.
I don’t think these kids use a surname, or have one, they are for example Athena of Denmark. They now have to use a surname. That may be where some of the identity issues comes in. Royal children not direct heir should have a family name as surname to avoid all this. Look at poor George, one day he’s George Cambridge the next day his George Wales.
And children can be cruel. I can just imagine the comments, the questions, the snickering. And if any of those kids are the type to remind people of their royal birth, this is move is going to hurt.
So will they now get a last name and have to change their passports and official documents? What is the house name of the Danish royals? Does that become their name?
Bullying ooh. I’ve never seen anyone say that Marie and Joachim’s relationship overlapped with his first wife Alexandra. I don’t believe that’s true. He seemed okay compared to his elder brother. That’s not saying much though. Hopefully the drinking and womanizing were overblown. Frederick was also considered lazy and expensive at a few points. Prince Joachim seemed less bad, worked regularly, and then got exiled to France. That’s how he was described when I read about Scandanivian royalty. I didn’t know he was considered workshy. I need to go back and read some old blogs. He was much better-looking, but didn’t age as well as Frederick. His drinking preserved him. He looks better now in his 50s than he did in his 20s and 30s. Mary always seemed okay, but there were always rumors she was uppity and difficult. I only criticized her for trying so hard to be elegant. I thought the Queen Matilde and Letizia were elegant and natural. She seemed to try hard. Luckily for Joachim, his wife and father were French. His parents were long since thought to have a difficult relationship, before the Alzheimer’s diagnosis and likely symptoms. That’s thirty years’ worth of difficulties to explain away. Most people in Denmark seem to be okay with it. His being exiled, because the kids are older and they have more time to not get along. Marie never got the Meghan treatment in Denmark. Her biggest complaint was the fact that people thought she was so lucky marrying a prince. She complained about it quite a bit. Boohoo now she has a complaint. The Danish and English are now doing a great job of showing how crappy royalty is. Either they will make it stronger or abolish it. I want one of those time travelers to tell me when it’s abolished. That’s all I want. I find it hard not to see what it does to families. They all mostly get along horribly.
@athena
The modelling thing is just a theory amongst Cambridge stans on SM. And they generally quite cruel in the way the talk about Nikolai and his brother. They compare them to Meghan… wonder why that is..
@alexa
Alexandra remarried before Joachim and has said it was a happy divorce. Basically they remained friendly and co-parented without drama.
Yeah frederik is def considered the lazy one ( with lots of stories about drinking and women) which is why it’s of off that some people here have cast Joachim as the one that just want to sponge of the state or whatever be and frederik as the diligent one . In the leader in BT ( one of danmarks leading daily’s) they basically praise Joachim for his work ethic. They do describe Marie as proud. But basically write that Joachim has felt sidelined and hurt by his mother’s decisions for a long time. They question the necessity of this latest move by the queen.
Joachim was never considered workshy, but he was always considered arrogant, out of touch and elitist in a way that really doesn’t hit home in Denmark. When the brothers were young J was sometimes considered the smarter of the two (and thus PERHAPS the better king), but that was decades ago. Since then there have been unfortunate interviews where J patronizes reporters, he complains to the media about not being given enough royal assignments etc. Meanwhile, F has matured and is considered a modern, friendly/“folksy” CP that is very popular.
This story finally hit the regular Dutch news. Queen Margrethe first mentioned removing the prince/ss titles publicly back in 2008. This decision is by no means recent, Joachim is saying that they first started talking about this with him in May, but this is not true. He’s known for well over a decade what was going to happen with his children’s titles.
This is entirely on the parents (J+M) for not preparing their children for what was clearly inevitable. They put their own entitlement ahead of what was best for their children … The children’s identity was NEVER going to be as life-long princes or princesses … Also, so much better for the children if their parents weren’t whining in public about a non-situation.