Prince Harry’s Spare really reset the narrative on Prince William and Kate’s behavior towards Meghan when he first introduced them. William and Kate were huge Suits fans and they already knew who Meghan was. Harry absolutely insinuated that William was a particularly big fan, and that William likely had a crush on Meghan. In Spare, Harry recalls introducing Meghan and William, and Meghan leaned in to hug William and he “recoiled.” Harry also mentioned that William seemingly wanted to meet Meghan alone, without Kate around – that Kate was out with the children when Harry brought Meghan over to their Kensington Palace home. This whole time, we’ve never actually heard the story of Meghan and Kate’s first meeting though. Even Omid Scobie’s Endgame didn’t have much of anything about it (Finding Freedom did, but who knows if that version was true), but the Mail is still trying to make “mistranslations” into a bigger thing. This whole thing is so f–king weird.
The publication of Omid Scobie’s Endgame has caused a huge fallout after two ‘royal racists’ were named in the Dutch version of the book – and now it seems another translation issue in Prince Harry’s memoir months earlier could have wrongly painted the Princess of Wales in a bad light. After the publication of Prince Harry’s memoir Spare, it was widely reported that Kate chose to remain outside in the garden at Kensington Palace with her children rather than meet Meghan on the first day she came over to be introduced to William.
However, Spare was accidentally released in Spain days before the official publication date in January 2023, and Harry’s words, translated from Spanish to English, have been widely misinterpreted as Kate being nearby in the garden, rather than away from home altogether. According to Prince Harry’s own words in the English language version, he asked William where Kate was, to which his brother replied: ‘Out with the kids’.
In Spare, released in January this year, the Duke of Sussex recalled the first time he brought Meghan over to William and Kate’s home so they could meet each other. The book described the scene with Meghan giving William a big hug, something which took ‘Willy’ by surprise because he’s not much of a hugger, according to Harry. The pair exchanged pleasantries and Harry then asked William where Kate was, to which his brother replied: ‘Out with the kids’. It didn’t seem like a big deal with Harry responding, ‘Ah, too bad. Next time.’
Although he recalls Meghan’s first meetings with the Queen, Charles, Camilla and William in the book, he never actually mentions what happened when she was first introduced to Kate. But later in Harry’s memoir, he describes an evening between the four where Meghan cooked dinner and everyone appeared to get along.
Yeah, Spare makes it clear that the first time Kate and William invited the Sussexes into their home was after the wedding, after Harry and Meghan had repeatedly invited W&K to dinner at Nottingham Cottage. But it’s definitely weird that no one really knows, for sure, what happened when Meghan and Kate first met and that Harry never described it.
I’ve started to develop a theory about Harry, actually – even though he’s sensitive and empathetic, he’s still a dude and there were several moments where he blundered around, not realizing that his decisions and behavior were going to boomerang back on Meghan. He was saying “no” to things on Meghan’s behalf and instead of Harry taking the hit for it, Meghan took the hit. He didn’t realize that Will and Kate would treat Meghan so poorly, he didn’t understand for months, perhaps years, that Will and Kate were absolutely a huge part of the campaign against Meghan.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid, Instar.
-
- 100th anniversary service of the Royal Air Force at Westminster Abbey to mark the centenary of the Royal Air Force,Image: 377398453, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no
-
- Meghan Markle in St George’s Chapel, Windsor Castle for her wedding to Prince Harry watched by (middle row from left) Queen Elizabeth II, Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Wessex, Viscount Severn, Countess of Wessex, Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, Princess Royal, Sir Tim Laurence, (front row from left) Duke of Cambridge, Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall Duchess of Cambridge, Duke of York. .,Image: 515241949, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
-
- ** RIGHTS: ONLY UNITED STATES ** London, UNITED KINGDOM – Meghan, Duchess of Sussex and Kate, Duchess of Cambridge seen at Wimbledon’s Center Court today to watch the semi final match between Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal. Djokovic defeated Nadal in five sets. Pictured: Meghan Duchess of Sussex, Catherine Duchess of Cambridge BACKGRID USA 14 JULY 2018 BYLINE MUST READ: MediaPunch / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
-
- ** RIGHTS: ONLY UNITED STATES ** London, UNITED KINGDOM – Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge and Meghan, Duchess of Sussex and Pippa Middleton, at the women’s Final on day twelve of the Wimbledon Championships at the All England Lawn Tennis and Croquet Club, 13th July 2019. Pictured: Kate Middleton, Meghan Markle BACKGRID USA 13 JULY 2019 BYLINE MUST READ: MediaPunch / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
-
- Her Majesty The Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, accompanied by The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry a and Ms. Meghan Markle, The Duke of York, The Princess Royal, The Countess of Wessex, The Duchess of Gloucester and Princess Alexandra will attend the Commonwealth Service at Westminster Abbey on Commonwealth Day. Pic Shows Megan Markle attending the service
-
- North America Rights – London, UK -20190713- The Duchess of Cambridge, the Duchess of Sussex, and Pippa Middleton Matthews in the royal box during the 12th day of the Wimbledon Championships at the All England Lawn Tennis and Croquet Club. -PICTURED: Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle -PHOTO by: INSTARimages.com Disclaimer: This is an editorial, rights-managed image. Please contact INSTAR Images for licensing fee and rights information at sales@instarimages.com or call +1 212 414 0207. This image may not be published in any way that is, or might be deemed to be, defamatory, libelous, pornographic, or obscene. Please consult our sales department for any clarification needed prior to publication and use. INSTAR Images reserves the right to pursue unauthorized users of this material. If you are in violation of our intellectual property rights or copyright you may be liable for damages, loss of income, any profits you derive from the unauthorized use of this material and, where appropriate, the cost of collection and/or any statutory damages awarded For images containing underage children: Be advised that some Countries may have restricted privacy laws against publishing images of underage children. Inform yourself! Underage children may need to be removed or have their face pixelated before publishing
-
- NEWS EDITORIAL USE ONLY. NO COMMERCIAL USE. NO MERCHANDISING, ADVERTISING, SOUVENIRS, MEMORABILIA or COLOURABLY SIMILAR. NOT FOR USE AFTER 31 DECEMBER 2018 WITHOUT PRIOR PERMISSION FROM KENSINGTON PALACE. NO CROPPING. Publications are asked to credit the photograph to Alexi Lubomirski. The photograph must not be digitally enhanced, manipulated or modified in any manner or form and must include all of the individuals in the photograph when published. This official wedding photograph released by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex shows The Duke and Duchess in The Green Drawing Room, Windsor Castle, with (left-to-right): Back row: Master Jasper Dyer, the Duchess of Cornwall, the Prince of Wales, Ms. Doria Ragland, The Duke of Cambridge; middle row: Master Brian Mulroney, the Duke of Edinburgh, Queen Elizabeth II, the Duchess of Cambridge, Princess Charlotte, Prince George, Miss Rylan Litt, Master John Mulroney; Front row: Miss Ivy Mulroney, Miss Florence van Cutsem, Miss Zalie Warren, Miss Remi Litt.
-
- (Left to right) The Duke of Cambridge, the Prince of Wales, the Duchess of Cornwall, the Duchess of Cambridge, the Duke of York and Princess Beatrice sitting in St George’s Chapel at Windsor Castle during the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.
-
- The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge with Prince George and Princess Charlotte leave St George’s Chapel in Windsor Castle after the wedding.
-
- (180711) — LONDON, July 11, 2018 () — Britain’s Prince William (3rd L), Duke of Cambridge, and his wife Catherine (2nd L), Duchess of Cambridge, Prince Harry (5th L), Duke of Sussex and his wife Meghan (4th L), Duchess of Sussex, attend a service at Westminster Abbey to mark the 100th anniversary of the Royal Air Force (RAF) in London, Britain on July 10, 2018. (/Ray Tang) (ly)
-
- The Duchess of Cambridge sits near the Duchess of Sussex as they attend the Westminster Abbey Commonwealth day service. Commonwealth Day has a special significance this year, as 2019 marks the 70th anniversary of the modern Commonwealth, with old ties and new links enabling cooperation towards social, political and economic development which is both inclusive and sustainable. The Commonwealth represents a global network of 53 countries and almost 2.4 billion people, a third of the worlds population, of whom 60 percent are under 30 years old. Each year the Commonwealth adopts a theme upon which the Service is based. This years theme A Connected Commonwealth speaks of the practical value and global engagement made possible as a result of cooperation between the culturally diverse and widely dispersed family of nations, who work together in friendship and goodwill. The Commonwealths governments, institutions and people connect at many levels, including through parliaments and universities. They work together to protect the natural environment and the ocean which connects many Commonwealth nations, shore to shore. Cooperation on trade encourages inclusive economic empowerment for all people – particularly women, youth and marginalised communities. The Commonwealths friendly sporting rivalry encourages people to participate in sport for development and peace.
Well Can’t being the racist she is of course she was out playing with the children so she would not have to meet the biracial woman. If you are of color you have to be the President of the USA for her to be part of that introduction like when the Obamas came to Kensington Palace.
And the other reason Kate wasn’t around is because she had no interest in making friends with the woman who was taking Harry away. William, Harry, and Kate were at one time very close, and Kate enjoyed the attention of two men. Two princes ! Then alone comes this American chick to break up her little group.. She is very envious of M – of her confidence, accomplishments abilities, and her beauty . That’s it in a nutshell..
That and the fact that I’m sure Willwander had his eyes full of stars like he never did with Kate….
The thing is – William, Harry, and Kate weren’t close. They saw each other at official engagements where Harry was as nice to Kate as he was to everyone he spends time with. She shamelessly and obviously flirted with him, but he didn’t actually know her very well. They didn’t hang out outside of official events. But I entirely agree with the rest of your statement. Kathy Cambridge was very envious of M for all the reasons you stated, but I image watching M’s husband treating her lovingly and respectfully in public had to really, really burn.
The media has told us that they were close. They also said that Harry gave William Diana’s ring to propose to Kate, yet Harry confirmed in Spare that not only did he ever have the ring but he was surprised when William proposed to Kate and only learned about it when the rest of us learned about it. He doesn’t even know if or when William asked the Queen for permission. The media also told us that Harry was a fan of Suits and thought that Meghan was his ideal wife because he knew of her before meeting her. The media have been lying about Harry that it’s a miracle they told the truth about his name.
He was raised in the cult and gave everyone around him the benefit of the doubt for too long. I’m impressed he was able to see the light and get out, even more impressed Meghan had the love and patience to help him in that process.
Maybe he’s known all along. Except for spare all the stories we have heard about Harry have come from third parties. Like the courtiers and tabloids. And they all had their own agendas.
Harry made it clear Meghan didn’t save him. He saved himself.
Yeah. Harry said he had to see it for himself and he did. It’s not an easy process and will probably take a while but he saw enough to remove him and his wife from a very toxic environment.
“This whole time, we’ve never actually heard the story of Meghan and Kate’s first meeting though.”
Didn’t they meet when Harry & Meghan invited them for dinner? I thought that was the first time Meghan met Kate and Kate was dressed formally. Do I remember wrong?
Was that the first time they met or the first time they went to Nott Cott for dinner? I can’t remember.
Meghan said in the Netflix doc that when she met Kate, Wank came to dinner @ NotCott & Meghan was in jeans and barefoot. Pretty sure that is what she said, I just re-watched it, but I could be wrong, I am a lot.
@TheVolvesSeidr, I’m going to rewatch because if that was the first time Kate met Meghan, that would mean Kate made herself unavailable to meet Meghan for over a year.B*tch In SPARE, the dinner at Nott Cott happened not long before Harry proposed(pg.324). Nov. 4, 2017 is Harry’s proposal date. It wasn’t announced until much later. It’s hard to rewatch. I cry listening to Doria’s words and feelings.
And, it makes Kate’s PR machine look very bad. (hi Katie Nicholls & CarolE & whoever) Katie Nicholl’s claimed that Kate met Meghan in Nov. 2016. Of course, KN claimed Kate was totally welcoming and offered any and all help to Meghan to work through royal life. We now have, lol, mentor #4. Shitshow.
Katie Nicholl’s also claimed that Harry was seeking Kate’s approval. IT WAS IMPORTANT TO HARRY TO HAVE KATE’S APPROVAL. Bollocks, Harry’s heart was what he needed and felt. Harry wanted Meghan in a very good bad way. It’s sad the Firm didn’t want them to be happy with each other.
Okay, I rewatched. D*mn Doria for making me cry again. Don’t come at me. I’m being facetious. Doria still makes me cry-as a mother of daughter. Yep, Meghan did say in the docuseries that the first time she met Kate was the dinner at Nott Cott when she showed up dressed to the nines. So, the Kate sycophant stenographers that portrayed her as being welcoming to Meghan were full of sh*t.LOL Not Shocking.
@theVolvesSeidr, you are remembering correctly. Episode 2 of the docuseries, around the 35:13 mark.
^^ I will go back and check the documentary to see how Meg phrased that recollection. Meanwhile, it was reported during the H&M courtship that Meg & Kate first met on January 10, 2017, a day after Kate’s birthday. Meg gave Kate a writing journal as a gift (i.e., a dream journal). Meg had first met Willy in November 2016. Reportedly, per FF, Kate and the kids were in Anmer when Meg was first introduced to Willy at KP.
https://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a34744010/meghan-markle-kate-middleton-first-meeting-details-finding-freedom/
I can’t remember from spare. But I had assumed that the dinner was the first time Kate and Meghan met.
I think it was the dinner at Nott Cott where Meghan was mooching around the kitchen cooking in ripped jeans and bare feet and Kate showed up dressed to the nines with her nose in the air.
Wait. William wanted to meet Meghan alone without his wife there? Spidey senses tingling!
Yeah but if he had a thing for her, why would he “recoil” when she hugged him? Even if you aren’t big on physical contact; if the woman you find attractive hugs you, surely you would welcome it?
Perhaps the hug gave him the makings of a boner. Hence, recoiling quickly.
Because William is a narcissist and probably gets off on people being intimidated to meet him and bowing to him and being all deferential. He was probably excited that his tv crush would behave that way and then Meghan treated him like a regular guy, her boyfriend’s brother.
That’s in line with the whole passive aggressive vibe with Wills
Yeah, I mean William having a thing for Meghan has been discussed on here quite a bit in other stories over the years. Folks have even speculated he made a pass at or said something inappropriate to her at some point, was rebuffed, M told H, and that then set off the beef between H and Will, and Will’s scorched earth approach to H & M ever since. Wouldn’t surprise me given his ego.
@TQ, that’s exactly what I think happened. Will said something inappropriate or tried something completely inappropriate and Meghan told Harry. That was the beginning of Will’s abuse toward Meghan and it just spiraled like a snowball out of control. Just like Piers Morgan’s feelings and reactions towards Meghan, they feel as if they are entitled to her, as if she’s property and not an actual human.
The only gossip I remember hearing about the time of the engagement regarding who meets who when was the Kate was adamant that she did not want Meghan around the children until she and Harry were engaged, if they became engaged. I remember thinking that this was weird at the time and wondered if any of Harry’s other girlfriends were subjected to this no contact with the kids until engaged rule. If this is true and William met Meghan very early on, kate would have been distancing herself from Meghan by using the children as an excuse. Also, some sources have said that Kate met Meghan in January of 2017. Could this have been the evening of the Nott Cott dnner? That would be weird though because Harry and Meghan had been going out for about six months at that point.
@May, check my previous post for the timeline of Meg’s first meeting with Kate. The dinner with WanK came after Meg moved to the U.K., in November 2017.
Kate probably felt Meghan was beneath her because she was Black, American and an actress. Throw in Kate’s well-known competitive streak when it comes to other women, and she wasn’t going to go out of her way to meet Harry’s new girlfriend. I mean this is the same woman who refused to go shopping with Meghan at the same store. Left Meghan to walk and drove herself with the freaking excuse she couldn’t be seen with a royal girlfriend. GMAFB!
Kate simply hates Meghan and doesn’t want to be a friend with her. She has many pictures with Chelsy and them laughing with each other. I know many people here saying she’s not close to Chelsy (I don’t think she is), but at least she managed to hang out and laugh with her.
Well Chelsy’s white. So that helped.
I don’t know want to assume it had anything to do with race, but I am willing to assume that Kate was intimidated by Meghan. Especially if she had seen Suits, which Harry said they had. She was beautiful, independent, charismatic and confident. Then when you hear her speak you realize she’s extremely intelligent too.
Kate couldn’t power trip in the same way with Chelsy because Harry was with Chelsy continuously why Kate got dumped a few times. Chelsy was sitting next to Harry during the Diana concert whereas Kate was not.
Also being white helped. But that said Chelsy got pinned as being a drunk despite going to law school whereas Kate did nothing but shop.
Harry not including when Kate first met Meghan is part of the 400 pages cut out.
We all know Kate disliked Meghan on sight. The whole shopping blind was out even before it was confirmed that Harry and Meghan were dating.
Meghan was perceived as a threat to Kate because Meghan was beautiful and smart and popular. Kate could not handle another woman her age being in that family and taking the media attention. To this day the crazy copying is a function of her obsession with Meghan.
I should have read further down, you said it already! 🙂
What shopping blind? 😮
@Anita – It’s a blind by Laineygossip back in the day.
Meghan was going shopping, and Kate was going in the same direction. Kate didn’t offer her a ride (Meghan was new to the UK and getting her sea legs). Kate just blanked her from the start.
Another let’s distance Keen article again showing she’s on shaky ground?
Given that Peggington was just seen hugging lots of people in a homeless shelter and posed with several POC, this stood out to me: “The book described the scene with Meghan giving William a big hug, something which took ‘Willy’ by surprise because he’s not much of a hugger, according to Harry.” Damage control?
Totally! In fact, those monumentally unself-aware troglodytes actually said bully has now surpassed Harry as the Prince of hugs or some shidt like that. I kid you not.
I totally buy your theory about Harry. I remember him saying during their engagement interview that he was really happy that she would now have a family because she was becoming a part of his family. He really had no clue how abusive they were.
Also, that kind of naivete is a total dude thing. A lot of men are blind or in denial about how their families treat their wives/GFs. They haven’t been raised with the same emotional intelligence that many women have, so they can be kinda careless with how they represent their partner to their family. On top of that, they don’t fully understand how misogyny makes people judge women harshly for things that they, as men, would never be judged for.
Unfortunately, Harry always makes excuses for his family’s stupidity and racism. It’s sad that even after everything that happened, Harry still wants to have a relationship with his father and brother. He repeated over and over again in all his interviews in January that he “wants his father and brother back”.
Thank you, thank you! Not enough is made of Harry’s mess ups in this. And it’s not just that he’s a man. It’s his unexamined whiteness. White people who don’t acknowledge racism as a fact never reflect on the way it functions in their lives. In their families. Their friends. In them. (Him claiming ignorance about understanding the violence of wearing a Nazi costume and referring to his non-white friends with slurs is beyond the pale.)
So he told himself that he could trot her into his family and they would accept her. Even with Charles saying he couldn’t afford to fund her!
I wish he’d gone into that in Spare. What was he thinking?
Couldn’t agree more and it’s too common a feature of interracial coupling: The non-racialised partner unwittingly bringing his partner into hostile territory via a blindspot about his/her family’s biases.
Based on their behaviour pre-wedding and the sadistic nature of their competitive instincts, I still don’t understand why H thought his family would be thrilled to have M who was always going to steal the spotlight. And be black while at it lol.
@Solar As I recall he said he WOULD love to have his father and brother back, but they haven’t done what was needed (apologize, acknowledge Meghan’s pain, etc) and so that ship has sailed. I agree with everything @SunRae said, and agree that their statements are sometimes frustrating (Meghan’s too, honestly), but I don’t think it’s because they don’t get it.
Harry is not just some regular shmegular white guy with a terrible racist family. It’s easy to project our own experiences onto him and Meghan, but it’s really not the same. The firm is an insanely powerful, dangerous institution. The monarch and heirs and all the rest might be a total clown show, but that doesn’t take away from the white supremacist violence enacted in their name all over the globe. So I do have to wonder how much of what Harry says is because he’s towing a line, trying to get justice for his wife without making her and his children even more of a target to these zealots. It’s not like if he speaks the unadulterated truth everyone will suddenly stand up and listen, the smears will stop, the royals will just combust into ether; if he spoke plainly about what’s going on it would be deemed an act of treason and these lunatics would respond accordingly. It’s easy enough for us to urge “LET THEM HAVE IT, HARRY!” but we’re not the ones meeting with private security or the FBI because of repeated threats to our children’s lives.
@Sunday
THANK! YOU! for being such a strong voice of reason on this matter. Many folks here are completely guilty of the very same type of blindspot they accuse Harry of having.
H is the only one in modern history to have gone up against this monolith. As you said so eloquently: “The monarch and heirs and all the rest might be a total clown show, but that doesn’t take away from the white supremacist violence enacted in their name all over the globe.”
Whatever H might not have been aware of during the time he and M were in that cult trying desperately to toe the line while at the same time, staying true to their beliefs and sense of self, he was definitely in no doubt by the time he, as he described it in his own words: FLEE with is wife and child, leaving everything behind and running for their life.”
For Fck’s Sake!!!
Now what more in gods name do folks need to know in order to believe that H has had his come-to-jesus moment where that set of ghouls and their global tentacles/henchmen are concerned.
@Solar, To be honest I don’t think Harry ever truly had his father or his brother. I believe Harry was always thinking of what could have been. After Diana’s death Harry said that he felt very alone. His father has never been there for him & William distinctly told him not to speak to him at school. Because Harry has never had a close relationship with either his father or his brother, I think it was a real wake up call. Harry made terrible mistakes especially in regards to Meghan, but we don’t know the whole story and probably will never know everything. But at least he & Meghan are out of that horrible toxic family now. They’ll never go back, which is good.
MF, I think your entire 2nd paragraph is spot on.
Plus, to add to the mess, I think Harry actually thinks differently than his family does which led to him not realizing his family’s reaction to Meghan. For him, her being an actress was a plus point, for instance just to focus in on one small issue, because she had a better sense of dealing with living in a fishbowl. From the start, that same career was on of the reasons Harry’s family was convinced that she would never do. Harry had given some thought to the type of woman who could deal with everything that came with being married to him and his family did not in any way have the same priorities.
@OnThisDay:
The wedding photo always hits me just because of that.
Harry beams, he glows, he has his wife by his side, life will be wonderful.
Doria’s facial expression can only be described as pensive – she knows what is awaiting her daughter, she hopes it won’t happen, but she knows that her hopes will be shattered, because she has been there (the color barrier) all her life.
@LivingDesert, the main thing I see in the wedding photo now is Kate leaning as far away from Doria as she can without falling out of her chair.
@Dara: Well, that too. She could not have made it more obvious.
@MF agree, like he knew everyone had to curtsey to the Queen, and yet he didn’t clue Meghan in until they were minutes from meeting her. That’s like step 1 in meeting the queen, it’s so basic and so yes there were probably a zillion other instances that Harry either didn’t deem important himself so didn’t feel like she needed to know or just cluelessness like “Meghan’s so pretty, surely everyone will think she looks gorgeous” when in reality wearing open-toed shoes or short sleeves would be considered as wild as Lady Gaga’s meat dress and not clueing her in was like setting her up for failure. Of course those racists hated her regardless of her actions but his unpreparedness certainly didn’t help.
I also think that a lot of his actions were also motivated simply by the fact that he didn’t want to lose her.
Yeah, I don’t think Harry recognized how different their worlds really were at first. I don’t know for sure but I think Chelsy and Cressida were the only other ones to meet the family. They were born into the aristocrat set. All of the dos and donts were ingrained into them at birth. My guess is that Harry didn’t realize a lot of what Meg didn’t know until they were in that moment.
Harry said in Spare they didn’t know the queen was at Royal Lodge until right before they got there, she was going to meet Fergie, and Eugenie was already there.
He clued Meghan in that she had to cursey to the Queen minutes before she met the Queen because the presence of the Queen was unexpected and only announced to him moments before they arrived at Royal Lodge. That is why he immediately asked Meghan if she knew how to curtsey and why he and Fergie frantically tried to teach her just before entering the room the Queen was in. Regarding protocols, Harry has said that most are made up protocols which rings true when those you listed and others are protocols that other royal wives have also done without being sent to the dungeon. There are photos of Kate and Diana dressing in things that Meghan was attacked for. Harry
Harry spoke about how they were constantly told what she should or shouldn’t do and when she did what was told the media would attack her for it claiming she was going against this fictitious protocol. Camilla was just in Kenya where she stayed in a car while her royal husband participated in the engagement. Surely that is part of the royal protocol of what a royal wife shouldn’t do. Kate just hiked her skirt up to her hooha during a State visit. Surely that is a royal protocol of what a royal wife should never do. Yet neither of those royal men are criticized for allowing their wives to break protocols, and in most of those instances, basic common decency.
Ridiculous comment. Plenty of royals wear open toed shoes and short sleeves. Princess Anne and Princess Margaret did regularly, and the late Queen released several pictures of herself in sleeveless dresses in relaxed settings at Balmoral, on the jet, and on the royal yacht. The Queen was a human being that had children and grandchildren that she watched wear naval bearing tops and short skirts let alone sleeveless ones and open toed sandals. People espousing idiotic made-up protocols from tabloids certainly didn’t help and weren’t trying to.
@Steph, Chelsy Davy was born to a wealthy family in the former Rhodesia (Zimbabwe). She attended boarding school in England, and so her family’s wealth placed her in social/ educational contact with the aristo-set. That’s how she met Harry. None of this makes her an aristo, but she did end up marrying one well over 10 years after she and Harry split.
BTW, nothing was ingrained in Chelsy. She was wealthy, but very different, which Harry liked
Exactly, I’ve had to explain to my husband that if people come over, and our house is a mess, he is not the one being judged. He’s always like, it’s no big deal. I wish that were the case. Sexism sucks and it was compounded by racism (and classism and anti-Americanism) in Megan’s case
I can see how there’s some blame to be laid at Harry’s feet, he has been part of the bubble and has never really had to navigate life outside his bubble . He is lucky he married a chill woman who loves him to bits . Their situation is really unique there is no blueprint. So I can see taking yourself out of the situation as the best recourse, because there wasn’t going to be any steps taken that wouldn’t have set someone off . I also think being brought up in a neglectful house hold I can see why they expected him to continue to take what ever they dish out.
However there are some situations that have no win outcome , from experience I can see this so as you are continue
Soooooo… to this day there’s no description of that first meeting?
It must’ve been really bad.
Off-topic, but given what we now know about Kate’s feelings towards Meghan — racist, jealous, and hostile apparently from the very beginning — I always wonder what they’re saying to each other whenever I see photos of the two of them chatting back in the early days. Kate is not a particularly subtle person, so I can’t imagine that she was able to hide her nasty streak very well at all.
Back then, Kate was getting the best press of her life as the perfect English rose. Being seen as pleasant to Meghan in front of the cameras was a no-brainer back then. The polo pics were probably closer to reality. It’s funny though. The very first time Kate was purposely rude to Meghan in front of the cameras was at that CW service. At that point, all Meghan and Harry had done was say they wanted to leave. So much has happened since then, but at the time, the way she was sooo rude AF to Meghan in public was jarring. And at that point, the whole world still thought Meghan had made Kate cry. It was such an extreme overreaction to the Sussexes simply wanting to leave. Tells me she had been itching to show her true colors about Meghan for a while.
That wasn’t all that had happened involving M&H at that point. Two other factors around the CW service would have gotten to Kate. IIRC wasn’t there some issue about W&K wanting to have some sort of precedence in walking into the chapel, but were denied? Plus, it was day 3 of Meghan’s coulda had a bad bitch ensembles, a sharp departure from her previous neutral, chosen to blend in, clothing palette. Shortly before the day of the CW service, Kate had already tried to hijack Meghan’s thunder from the iconic umbrella photo.by being papped out shopping in the same color blue outfit, so we know she was paying attention. And at the CW service, there’s Meghan looking spectacular in a green caped dress.
I remember Meghan’s peaceful expression walking into that service, like she was already on the plane back to CA. Harry meanwhile looked like thunder. Several possibilities, but I wonder what that was really about…
Ooh yeah I forgot about the waking part and there was some last minute change that Kate and William wouldn’t be walking either since the Sussexes weren’t allowed to walk. Still, that’s such a lame thing to make a bitch face about on Kate’s part. Now Harry’s face? I’m thinking William and Kate both set him off with their deliberate coldness. Was it in the docuseries where he said it looked awkward and it also felt awkward?
Jais I disagree that it was at the CW that Kate was publicly rude to Meghan. Her rudeness to me started with her selection of clothes. She had an odd fixation with always wearing red when in the presence of Meghan. It was during Meghan’s first CW while she was pregnant that both Kate and Camilla were giggling about Meghan holding her belly. It was during the Christmas walkabout that it wasn’t William who ignored Meghan but it was Kate who Meg was trying to talk to and she immediately walked away. It was after Archie’s birth that it was nearly two weeks before they even bothered to visit their new nephew. It was at Meghan’s first return (Trooping the Color) after giving birth to Archie that Kate dressed Louis in the entire outfit that Harry wore to his very first Trooping the Color. It was at Archie’s christening that Kate wore a short skirt, RED accessories and Diana’s earrings that Diana wore to Harry’s own christening. It was Kate who ignored Meghan and Archie at the polo match. Kate was subtle but she made it clear, at least to me that she wasn’t welcoming to Meghan or Archie.
Is it really that unreasonable to expect your family to be happy that you are happy and to welcome the one who makes you happy? Only the most horrible of families don’t suck it up and politely do so. If his family had ever valued PH or his opinion, they would have been intrigued by someone who could make him so happy. And, isn’t her name CATHERINE?
He probably wanted to give her some of his ideas of “Home Truths” i.e. how to behave, without anyone there to overhear. Or he wanted to test her, as these freaks all do to see if something he told her in very private, got back around.
Whatever it was, it likely was not good. Willy and his daddy will throw ANYONE under the bus especially each other, and this was likely just another case of it.
One thing I will say about The Egg is, except for his wife, he is not much of a flincher. He’s not as touchy feely as his mum was or even his dad, but he wouldn’t recoil/flinch from a lovely woman’s approach. No.
Lovely or not, I’m convinced he and his wife from the beginning resented M’s lack of deference to them. She thought of them as her boyfriend’s brother and wife, and was friendly and warm—they were shocked that she wasn’t more fawning over the heir and the future queen. She never saw them as “above” her in any way (bc she’s American, and a badass accomplished one at that) and greeted them as equals—I’m sure they were appalled that a biracial American actress didn’t observe protocol or act honored to be in their presence, or dared have them over wearing jeans. Even Harry wonders in Spare if William was offended by Meghan not bowing to him when they first met, which he hadn’t told her to do. I’m sure he did flinch when Meghan hugged him. Hot or not, this lot lives and dies by rank and hierarchy, and it fucks with their whole world when people don’t observe it (bc they have nothing else).
THIS!!!!!!
I spent my junior year of college studying in the UK. I insulted a number of people before I learned “the rules.” My pants/trousers/underwear snafu is still my favorite!!
MF I totally agree. My husband’s family is so mentally abusive to me and has been for years and my husband doesn’t see it. Whenever we’re all together, they hug and kiss but when he’s not around they insult and ignore. So it’s my word against them. I’ve given up after so many years of it. Like Meghan, I don’t need the soap opera.
There’s always recording them.
🎯
Haha. Too funny. But I like the way you think
Sorry you had to go through that , I went through that in a previous relationship. Everyone in his family basically ignored or threw shade at me with the exception of his mother who was firmly on my side. When I finally ended the relationship for a variety of valid reasons (including infidelity) his family suddenly became so NICE to me I couldn’t believe it. They didn’t want me to leave but his mother said she totally understood why I ended it, she didn’t defend her son at all.
i think this is all hindsight from harry’s perspective. of course he’s going to be introspective and look at all the angles and where it went wrong. fundamentally, i think these people are just different and would have never been friends if they were not forced to in friends situations. sure, i think the Cambridge should have been warmer to Meg. also, the topic about smears and all that crap is def valid. but time and time again, it strikes me how naive Harry and how badly he didn’t prepare HIMSELF and meg for a life in the firm. a lifetime in this cold/institution above individual world should have warned him that there are hierarchies and he and his wife would always be second to the cambridges. that institution above family is literally the motto….idk why he is so shocked it all went this way.
Meghan did understand hierarchy which is why she said she wore muted colours when around senior royals.
Harry talks about his relatives having an issue with Meghan being an actress so why is it that they were fine & encouraged his relationship with Cressida? Whilst I do think Harry has blind spots around his family around race especially The fact is sometimes you don’t know really your loved ones until you see how they react in unfamiliar territory & Meghan being a mixed race American brought out the biases up front that wouldn’t have been exposed when Harry dated people like chelsy & Cressida.
Also If hierarchy is so critical how is it that nobody throws a fit when Kate & William schedule events that clash with Charles & Camilla, can focus on their vanity projects more than serving the monarch or William can brief on how he will do things as a king on his fathers coronation weekend or on his first trooping.
And not sure how Harry could have predicted the smear campaign against Meghan given the family hadn’t ganged up to brief against its own like that. Every other in law had had way more protection than Meghan
Prepare himself for the only life he’s ever known. He expected it to be the same just not alone. When did Harry or Meghan ever show that they were unaware of the hierarchy? That’s just another false narrative. He wanted to be allowed the same working conditions as his uncles and aunts. They’re all below them in rank but didn’t receive the same treatment from the press or protection from the Queen. This was never about hierarchy. All crap. William and Kate were just smearing and lying everywhere because they were jealous and didn’t want to work more. They also realized it upped the hatred of those already against Meghan and Harry and improved their popularity all the while taking the focus off of their weaknesses and the state of their marriage which was in trouble before Meghan came into the picture. Instead of smearing they could have lessened Harry and Meghan’ s engagements. Could Meghan and Harry have complained and moaned then left? Maybe, but we don’t know because they didn’t do the sane thing. Kate gets to do the bare minimum and William a little more and get their great biased press that handles them with kid gloves and Harry and Meghan with lies that others then spout. They took the spotlight off of Andrew’s criminal activities too.
And of course the daily mail is trying to rewrite and change things, forgetting that most of us still have copies of spare and can check, muppets the lot of them. I’m looking at the Mail in this programme about Diana and nothing has changed. How the hell is it still in publication? Even when Diana was bring honoured for her humanitarian work in America, they were still bringing her down. They even say, “” “we just have to hope something terrible doesn’t happen while she is dating Dodi. WTF?
This is beyond bizarre – they’re acting like this was some landmark meeting, like Yalta and the fate of post-war Europe, and historians need to know exactly who said what to whom. Maybe Kate didn’t want to meet Meghan, or maybe Charlotte had to go to the bathroom the last minute.
If Harry didn’t describe the first meeting, then it must not have been memorable to him. And I’ve had that theory about Harry ever since the Oprah interview. Yes, blundering and clueless, and critical of the system, but never imagining that this father and brother don’t really love him.
This is it, right here. Harry never thought his brother would actively sabotage his own happiness to this degree. They might have been rivals, and not particularly close, but he honestly thought William would be reasonable.
@Suebarbri33 Harry says in Spare that the brothers promised that they would NEVER brief against each other but I also suspect they promised NEVER to cheat on their wives like pa did to his teenage bride. Harry was shattered to discover that Will cheats on Kate and then throws him and Meg to the tabloid wolves to suppress the stories on THAT affair. I thought Will was dull but decent and to discover that he’d stoop so low and to this day continue to hurt H and Meg to the maximum, well how low can you go?
My thinking is that Kate wasn’t that important to Harry, ergo when he introduced Meghan to her was not something that really stuck in his mind. His brother was, though, so he remembers that occasion. He relates the NottCott story because it was the first time W, with or without K, came over for dinner with him & Meghan.
honestly, this just feels like a power move on Kate’s part (or an attempted power move.) she wasn’t there for one of two reasons:
1) if Meghan wanted to meet her, she would have to go out of her way to do so. Kate wasn’t changing her schedule or anything to meet meghan.
2) Kate was sending a signal that she didn’t think Meghan was important enough for her to meet – she was trying to convey that she thought the relationship was temporary and it wasn’t worth her time to meet Meghan.
It just seems clear that Kate was a bitch from the start and was threatened by the very idea of Meghan.
Here’s another thing I’ve wondered. How much heads-up time did Harry give before going over to meet them? I can’t remember if Harry made that clear in spare. I can kind of see Harry being like oh hey they’re home let’s stop by and say hi and texting William to say he’d be bringing Meghan over. Or saying we’ll come by this afternoon. Now, we know Kate dressed super formal for their dinner. She wants time to PREPARE. So I’ve wondered if Kate was just not prepared to meet Meghan that day. As in, she wanted her hair and clothes to be a very specific way the first time they met. That would’ve been important to Kate. So maybe she hid in the garden with her kids. Knowing how Kate is with other women, she would not have first met Meghan without her wiglets and everything else. She wanted to show her status in how she appeared and she just wasn’t ready for that on that day.
100% this was a basic bitch power move, like pretending you’ve never met someone you clearly have before or “getting an important call” and having to take it. Or the dumb elbow grab handshake, lol.
I’m no Kate apologist, but I do get anxiety and would 100% be internally freaking out about meeting my potential sister-in-law who happens to be a celebrity who stars in my favorite show. I am not, however, a cruel racist sociopath, so I would have gone the other way and totally fan-girled out, but that shows who W & K are. THEY desperately wanted to meet HER, and yet that flies in the face of their entire world hierarchy, so surely SHE should be desperate to meet THEM… and then she was totally normal and their fragile little egos couldn’t take it and we know the rest.
“Kate was just a bitch from the start”. This is a quote for the ages and sets up the interactions between Meghan and Kate that exists to this day.
She wasn’t even hiding the bitchiness from public view by the time we get to the queens funeral.
“She’s out with the kids” just doesn’t ring true.to my ear. William and Kate insist that the Nanny and others say “children” in stead of “kids.”
Agree that Harry may not have realized just how aggressive WanK’s campaign was but also think WanK are super competitive – and not just Will. Here comes Meghan, confident and already used to the cameras and publicity. It may be Endgame that touches on Meghan’s ability to just get on with the job, not overly impressed and not intimidated. Meghan’s confidence allowed her to come up with ideas like the cookbook to raise funds for the Grenfell fire families. Meghan and Harry both started to become hugely popular and my guess is WanK were hating it, Kate because of the comparisons and Will because he feels he was born to be superior to Harry in all things.
Every time I see that wedding photo, the first thing I see is Kate leaning away from Doria. It never fails to disgust me.
Same, Teagirl. I can’t unsee it.
Kate is such a racist mess.
Yep. Just like when Kate recoiled when Jamaica’s Minister of Culture Olivia Grange went to touch her hand/arm during the Caribbean flop tour. Can’t unsee the knee jerk racism.
And her sour face in the wedding photo. She knew this would be a forever picture and somehow she couldn’t pull off a hyena grin?
Someday Meghan will write her own memoir and then we will learn about that meeting!
Nah. Meghan isn’t one to dwell in negative spaces. She’s put her time in the UK in a box and has moved on with her life.
Didn’t Meghan say in the docuseries that she first met Kate when she and William came over for dinner at Nottingham Cottage and she had on ripped jeans and was barefoot?
Yes, I noted that above @Amy Bee before reading your comment. Of course Kate showed up dressed to the nines and acted like an ice queen.
Gawd I would love to see those outfits. Like did Kate wear nylons and heels to go two blocks for dinner at her brother-in-law’s?
I’d love someone to home cook a dinner for me. What a kind thing to do, and for people you’ve never met properly. I HATE cooking and yet spend loads of time doing it for the family. What a treat it must’ve been.
I’m sure you’re a good cook sparrow even if it’s not your favourite thing! Apparently Kate didn’t think it was a treat. And Meghan’s a great cook so the dinner wouldn’t have been some bland “throw a chunk of meat in the oven and overcook some vegetables” kind of meal. No, Kate was out for Meghan’s blood from the very beginning.
That’s sweet of you, Jaded. I have a very limited set of dishes. I can’t cook fish and I don’t do roasts. It’s all one pot stuff. I heard Meghan was a foodie. How nice of her to cook for them.
Yeah, I stated another post how Harry still wants a relationship with them. I wish he could just go his own way and drop them. They’re really terrible people.
Gotta say after re-reading Spare, Harry comes off like an idiot who got lucky with someone as sophisticated as Meghan.
Harry has a true heart and really cares about people. I think that’s what Meghan saw in him.
I don’t see how an idiot could have created such highly impactful foundations like Sentebale (at 19), Invictus Games and the Endeavor Fund (in his mid 20s). He was raised in a cult like environment and believed everything he was taught and raised to believe. He knew some aspects didn’t make sense but it was through being outside that cult like environment that he was able to question things and see how messed up it really is. Believing your family loves you and wants you to be happy isn’t unusual or idiotic. Not realizing that your family is so horrible that they are willing to put you, your wife and children in harms way to get positive press for themselves isn’t something anyone would expect, especially someone in a cult.
I remembered reading this part in Spare. It was only W that showed up and he made excuses for K why she wasn’t there.
IMO, I think W told her not to go. She’s usually told what to do. Esp I can see W do that to her.(ie she wanted to go to NYC and Singapore but I think W ordered her to stay home). I always look at repeatability.
“when Meghan leaned in to hug W he recoiled.” It confirms W is never a hugger and has always been awkward with it.
I also remembered when I read Spare, maybe it’s the 2nd or 3rd meeting when WK had dinner with HM again – W was kindve sick. M offered some type of therapeutic, and he accepted. K was surprised as he’s never taken anything like that from anyone ever. It was maybe written in just 1 or 2 paragraphs, but I thought that was an interesting entry in the book.
I have to go back and check, but I remember Kate being really rude about that – like William is sick, Meghan offers him something homeopathic (or along those lines), william says thank you, and Kate is like “yeah he never tries that stuff.” Like it was just a rude response. Even if he’s not going to try it, it sounded like William was at least polite about it and Kate mocked it.
Please, that heaux was probably hiding somewhere nearby to jealous peep at Meghan. She’s crazy enough to do just that. And that’s when her jealousy and plotting began.
I don’t think this is a big deal. Based on what we know about William and Kate’s marriage, it is unremarkable and par for the course that Kate wasn’t home at the same time as William.
Thoughts on the The Famous Dinner at Nott Cott:
I think Meghan would take cues from Harry. If he had been clued in enough or aware enough to tell Meghan Kate takes her rank seriously and is likely to be dressed up, I imagine Meghan would have dressed up. But it seems both Harry and Meghan were casual. I think Harry just led poor Meghan into a landmine. But then how would he know, apparently never having been invited for dinner at KP. But Harry at the least was being a bit thick here, like many guys. Meeting one’s future in-laws can sometimes be a bit formal- it’s not unusual, and it happens in many families. Another instance of Harry’s cluelessness was his not preparing Meghan to curtsy to the Queen when they were having lunch at Andrew’s. It seems like he didn’t even introduce her to Andrew. Eugenie would have been the obvious one to help Meghan with royal protocol. Good thing Fergie was on the ball and helped Meghan out.
The late Queen stopped in unannounced. Fergie taught her to do it. The host usually sets the tone for the dinner. Maybe Harry said come by for dinner and didn’t specify. I don’t know. I’m glad Kate takes her rank seriously I guess Diana didn’t. There are plenty of pictures of Diana at friends’ dinner parties meeting people in jeans and Diana often wore jeans and a blazer out to eat. Many of the introductions in my twenties and now thirties at home have been informal dinners. The ones that cook.