The first 2024 presidential debate was held last Thursday. President Biden did not do well. People were freaking out about Biden’s performance for almost a full 24 hours. The NY Times claimed that high-ranking Democrats were meeting about possibly removing the sitting president from the ballot. That’s not how any of this works. The NYT also ran a staff editorial calling for President Biden to step down from the election. That’s also not how any of this works, and the NYT never ran a similar editorial when Donald Trump was convicted of 34 felonies, nor when E. Jean Carroll won her civil case and Trump became an adjudicated rapist.
I’ve seen a lot of old-school Democratic operatives refer to that 24-hour period as “bed-wetting,” which I find accurate. But something really interesting happened too: suddenly, the real grown-ups began talking. Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Jim Clyburn both came out with full-throated support for President Biden and Vice President Harris. Democrats around the country understood that this was the moment to coalesce around Biden, and post-debate, the Biden campaign raised over $27 million. Then Barack Obama came out to settle Dem nerves:
“Bad debate nights happen. Trust me, I know,” Obama said in a post on X, a reference to his own first debate with 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney, which was widely viewed as a victory for the Republican.
“But this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about himself. Between someone who tells the truth; who knows right from wrong and will give it to the American people straight — and someone who lies through his teeth for his own benefit,” Obama said. “Last night didn’t change that, and it’s why so much is at stake in November.”
What’s also interesting is that the actual focus groups and man-on-the-street debate reactions are showing that voters actually are paying attention, not just to Biden’s poor debate performance, but the absolute insanity of Donald Trump. Regular people who watched the debate thought Trump came across poorly too, and that Trump was lying from start to finish. The stakes are obvious even to so-called “low-information voters” in June. More than anything, it feels like the overwhelming majority of Americans have already decided how they’ll vote. Which means it’s going to be about the ground game and who has the better GOTV operations.
Bill and Hillary Clinton also chimed in:
I’ll leave the debate rating to the pundits, but here’s what I know: facts and history matter. Joe Biden has given us 3 years of solid leadership, steadying us after the pandemic, creating a record number of new jobs, making real progress solving the climate crisis, and launching…
— Bill Clinton (@BillClinton) June 28, 2024
The choice in this election remains very simple.
It's a choice between someone who cares about you—your rights, your prospects, your future—versus someone who's only in it for himself.
I'll be voting Biden. https://t.co/mxkpLIOEux
— Hillary Clinton (@HillaryClinton) June 28, 2024
Jack Schlossberg weighs in. pic.twitter.com/3sj5Q2usud
— Kim Wexler's Ponytail 🎗 (@MadisonKittay) June 29, 2024
Photos courtesy of Backgrid, Avalon Red, Cover Images.
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- President Barack Obama adresses drive-in rally on election eve to get out the vote for Joe Biden, Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock on November 2, 2020 in Atlanta, Georgia,Image: 567022217, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: , Model Release: no, Credit line: Sanjeev Singhal / Avalon
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- Washington, DC – United States President Joe Biden outlines efforts to counter the flow of fentanyl into the United States during a meeting in the Roosevelt Room of the White House in Washington, DC, USA, 21 November 2023. President Biden also gave a brief update on the negotiations for the release of hostages taken by Hamas on 07 October. Pictured: US President Joe Biden BACKGRID USA 21 NOVEMBER 2023 BYLINE MUST READ: MediaPunch / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Washington, D – Comedian Roy Wood Jr. speaks during a Juneteenth concert on the South Lawn of the White House in Washington, DC. Pictured: Joe Biden BACKGRID USA 10 JUNE 2024 BYLINE MUST READ: MediaPunch / BACKGRID USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- Savelletri of Fasano, ITALY – The leaders convened to discuss global economic and political issues, emphasizing international cooperation and unity. Pictured: Joe Biden BACKGRID USA 13 JUNE 2024 USA: +1 310 798 9111 / usasales@backgrid.com UK: +44 208 344 2007 / uksales@backgrid.com *UK Clients – Pictures Containing Children Please Pixelate Face Prior To Publication*
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- White House Correspondents’ Association (WHCA) dinner. The annual dinner raises money for WHCA scholarships and honors the recipients of the organization’s journalism awards Featuring: President Joe Biden Where: Washington, District of Columbia, United States When: 29 Apr 2023 Credit: Nathan Howard/POOL via CNP/startraksphoto.com
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- White House Correspondents’ Association (WHCA) dinner. The annual dinner raises money for WHCA scholarships and honors the recipients of the organization’s journalism awards Featuring: President Joe Biden Where: Washington, District of Columbia, United States When: 29 Apr 2023 Credit: Nathan Howard/POOL via CNP/startraksphoto.com
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- President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden with Prime Minister Narendra Modi arriving on the North Portico of the White House ahead of a state dinner. Biden and Modi announced a series of defense and commercial deals designed to improve military and economic ties between their nations during a state visit today. Featuring: First Lady Dr. Jill Biden, President Joe Biden Where: Washington, District of Columbia, United States When: 22 Jun 2023 Credit: Al Drago/POOL via CNP/startraksphoto.com
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- United States President Joe Biden returns to the White House from a weekend trip to Delaware. Featuring: President Joe Biden Where: Washington, District of Columbia, United States When: 22 Jan 2024 Credit: POOL via CNP/INSTARimages.com
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- Official state dinner as part of US President’s state visit to France, at the Presidential Elysee Palace. Featuring: President Emmanuel Macron, Brigitte Macron, President Joe Biden, First Lady Dr. Jill Biden Where: Paris, France When: 08 Jun 2024 Credit: Abaca Press/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
The media absolutely wants Trump back, not just those funded by extreme right wing weirdos. They want the ratings, number 1 selling journalist books, the investigations, the public testimonies from all the shady people Trump appoints to the government. They made huge amount of money in Trump years. They are missing it. Biden has a grownup government. No one watches the news for that boring sh*t. As Leslie Moonves (former CBS executive chairman and CEO) said before: “It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS”.
The media is terrified of Trump. I know, cos I work in the media. But, there are double standards for maga and democrats.
Orange occupation is historical. Too many firsts, too many crazy statements, maga is pure entertainment gold. From Greene to Bobo and house speaker, all leading up to the orange in chief. Who is safe? Fox and a few far right outlets.
It is hard to report on real issues and policies when lawmakers are making circus out of them. We are in uncharted waters.
@Mil, the journalists may be terrified, but the executives aren’t. They want all the profits back. Also, most executives don’t give a sh*t about “real issues”. They care about money, record-breaking profits to report.
Reporters maybe but not the people they work for
And that is why I’m frightened.
This is my exact impression after the debate. Yes, Biden wasn’t great. BUT media seems hell bent to show him as confused senior and completely ignore the ramble that was coming out of Trump. He was lying, using inflammatory language (everything was horrible, the worst, or incredible and best ever – depending if it was about him or Biden), claims that Putin would never dared to invade Ukraine if he was in the office, or blabbing “the military like me better than him”. I couldn’t stand this and that nobody challenged anything. It was not a debate, that was a contest of who spelled out more drama louder.
I am Polish, and I am truly scared of what happens if Trump wins because Putin will be standing at our borders and the history will repeat itself.
For the media: what is the f*** end game here? Do they want to set the world on fire? They did the same with Hilary: focusing on “her emails” and “she’s elitist”, ignoring how extremely well peepers she was and letting Trump spit out what he usually spits out. Maybe start pointing out the guy is guilty of treason and is a convict? Trumps victory resulted in 6th Jan attack, people died. What happens this time, will be worse.
I’ll be honest – Jack Schlossberg talked me off the ledge on TikTok. At the same time, the Biden campaign continues to misstep. They sent out a fundraising email with a poll showing how Biden does so much better than all the other names mentioned (Newsome, Buttigeig, Booker, Klobuchar, Whitten, etc.), except a closer look at the numbers shows that’s not the case. Undecides grow and they come FROM Trump. Don’t get me wrong – I’ll vote for Biden’s cold corpse over Trump, but minimalizing the disaster of that debate performance is a mistake. Yes, Obama had a bad debate in 2012, but no one was questioning his abilities.
I tend to agree with you—Biden’s debate was nothing like President Obama’s bc only Biden made himself look cognitively not up to the task of debating. It’s not just that he fked up—it’s that it doesn’t look like he can fix what seems to be the problem.
But I still lean toward him staying in. This is v v bad. But the reason Newsom, Buttigeg, Booker, Klobuchar etc have lower negatives than Biden is that they haven’t been under the nationwide microscope. We don’t know which of these might turn out to be as godawful a presidential campaigner as, say, Ron DeSantis.
I’m disheartened but think we are stuck with Biden.
I’ve moved more to the left since living in Europe, so my politics are more AOc than Fetterman…. I don’t think my type of politician can win against Trump. I think we need a red or purple state D, or at the very least someone who massively overperforms in their voting district. Plus someone younger (!), with some experience and definite skills. Newsom is a huge NO, but if necessary I would obviously vote for him.
Joe Biden on a bad day is still 1000x’s better than Trump on a good day.
That thing can never get near the White House again.
I’m still ridin’ with Biden.
I’d like to think they are publicly minimizing the disaster but behind the scenes that debate was a shock to the system and nothing is being taken for granted. I’m still traumatized by the polls saying Hillary was going to win in a landslide in 2016. Which I think led voters to stay home bc they thought it was safe when it wasn’t. They need to get on the ground and spend mad money in the battleground states and counties.
Hillary did win by three million votes. It’s just that those votes didn’t come in the handful of states where they count in our F’d up electoral system. It’s all a game and it was rigged back in 1781 when a bunch of white Xian slaveholders set it up. I’ve voted for democrats for prez every time since I turned 18 but since I live in a red state my vote never counts even when they win.
Respectfully, I disagree with the Democratic top on this and I am starting to panic about it.
I’m an American living in the NLs: Tomorrow the Schoof (figurehead PM)- Wilders (far right guy who won) cabinet is going to be sworn in and Rutte will disappear off to NATO. I feel sick with dread.
No expat D I know has wanted Biden, is excited about Biden and essentially most of us are voting against Trump. And now I’m getting the idea that not all of us are anymore. Strong Ds will vote for Biden, but that is not enough to win an election. Biden’s debate images have already demoralized voters. They do not encourage people to show up to vote. They do not encourage anyone to switch parties. In Europe, they’re saying that Biden is listening to his family (!!!) instead of his advisers. That is crazy.
Some people seem to think that history will repeat itself if he bows out. I think if he doesn’t we will definitely wind up with Agent Orange. We still have time (btw, in most of Europe an entire election season from start to finish is about 6 weeks [44 days here]), to choose someone who can do the job. We need someone who is healthy, able to speak, can think on the issues, etc. Biden did a great job, but he’s not able to anymore and at 81, this is okay and normal! What isn’t normal is blaming his advisors for the debate: it’s his job and responsibility to know how to do that.
@ML: co-sign everything you said. I am watching Europe with dread.
@ML: Another co-signer. I am also an American living in Europe (UK, in my case). The US looks weak. There is time to right the ship. If we lose to Trump based on a fear of doing something, we will regret it.
I live close to Raleigh NC where Biden held a rally after debate. He was on fire and on point and he talked about the debate. He said he may not talk fast or well but he knows how to get the job done. I think people need to calm down. Yes he didn’t do good at the debate but what he did do was not lie. It wasn’t his place to fact check every lie Trump told. The moderators sucked and let Trump spew lies. One bad debate shouldn’t be the end for Biden. It should be the end for Trump and his lies and his many convictions. He should step down not Biden.
Also in Raleigh (one of my son’s camp counselors was at that rally!) and feel the same. The debate sucked so badly but people are forgetting Biden’s good record over the last 3 years and that we are, overall, voting for a competent administration. If something happens to Biden and he’s not up to the job after a year or so…that’s why we have a competent vice president, whom people seem to be overlooking in favor of more white men and a female governor who has said she isn’t interested in running for pres right now.
This whole thing with Biden’s age started because people don’t want Kamala Harris to be the president and I wish more people ( including those that consider themselves to be liberal) would just be honest about that.Trump is abhorrent a literal convicted felon, and is clearly showing signs of dementia, and is literally only a few years younger than Biden but for some reason it’s Biden’s age that has been the topic of discussion for the last five years, and what’s most worrying to people. It’s also why she gets almost no coverage in American media for all of the international ( incredibly successful) trips she does and gets held to a standard that no other vice president ( including the current President!) was ever held to.
Agree. I’m sure that’s a huge part of the reason the “he’s old” story has resonated re Biden and not re Trump even tho they’ve BOTH obvs lost a step since 4 or 10 years ago. If Biden dies or becomes incapacitated, Harris is President, and the MAGA loons can’t stand the thought.
That being said, Biden needs to beat Trump. Trump was a mess too, but stayed surprisingly on message. (The risk of being incarcerated focuses the mind, I guess.) But Biden fell apart completely. His answer to the abortion question—Dems’ best issue for GOTV *and* winning persuadable white women—he lost his train of thought and changed the topic to “immigrant crime,” ffs.
I’ll vote for him if he forgets his own name and falls off the stage. But I’m very worried the he can’t GOTV like he needs to. And a replacement could maybe address his liability in Michigan and elsewhere, bc they’re not responsible for his failures on Gaza.
At the same time I’m worried that even if he can be persuaded to resign (I doubt it), choosing a replacement will tear the party apart, and who’s the unvetted replacement who can GOTV better than Biden? Anyone else who has better grassroots support?
Yep, this is about our VP more than anything else. I do think that people are pissed and rallying around Biden and Harris though. People need to stop panicking and bed wetting and fight and do something, door nock, send postcards, work to get people to the polls to vote. Donate if you can, Biden made $33 million in donations after the debate, and half were first time donators. In my opinion the hang wringing needs to be replaced by action, we have Biden and Harris (thank god) and we need to rally!
Joe Biden has been quietly and efficiently running this country for 3-1/2 years while Trump has been using that time spewing crap. Trump left American in a mess.
I wish it were only the MAGA loons who don’t want Kamala Harris to take over. There is plenty of misogynoir among liberals, and a lot of leftists have swallowed the “Kamala’s a cop” propaganda.
@Ciotog exactly, which is what I meant when I said I wish some liberals would be honest too. It’s why they’re throwing every name out there under the sun as a replacement, Newsom, Whitmer, Buttigieg , Pritzker except for the sitting VP the person who is supposed to take over if the president can’t serve.
Thank you, I think that needed to be said. While Trump goes around running for office with the motive being to stay out of prison or to eradicate memories of past crimes, you have another candidate who is concerned about the American public. But the difference is that most Republicans don’t bat an eye when their CHOSEN candidate becomes a convicted felon, whereas Democrats definitely tend to panic, “wet the bed” and wobble whenever their candidates are less than perfect. Then, they try to mask it with expressions like “Oh, I’m still leaning towards Biden BUT…” or “Yeah, I’ll vote for him BUT.” Great, that’s sounds like a vote of confidence when Trump is on the other ticket. These people don’t realize that it took human lives to get this “person” out of office the first time he was defeated, and that’s when he was still on his, what was for him, best behavior. What would Trump do when he had nothing to lose after another four terms?
Here’s the thing. I will definitely vote for Biden if he is the Democrat on the ballot. But as of this moment, he is the presumptive nominee, not yet the nominee. I have a crazy thought. There is still time to give the voters what they have been saying they want for months now–a different candidate. Wouldn’t be easy. Would probably be very messy but democracy in action always is. I can easily argue that Trump is totally unfit. However, after Thursday night I have a very hard time arguing that Biden is. It was not a “bad night”. Joe is clearly ill and has deteriorated markedly since 2020. This has been kept from us but it all spilled out Thursday in front of the whole world. So that’s another problem—a health cover-up.
Of course, top Dems will rally around Biden. He and his family are determined to carry on. But this isn’t about them. It’s about our future as a democratic nation and the future of all western democracies. Behind the scenes, the Dem elites are saying something very different. The polls will not be settled for another week or so. At that time, a decision will be made whether we can stay the course with a candidate who is as unfit as Trump (although in a different way) or convince (somehow, some way) Biden to withdraw and release his delegates. It’s an awful prospect but it’s also awful that the Biden team has been hiding a serious problem. And basically lying to us about Joe’s health and fitness for office.
And no one is calling for Trump to step aside because everyone knows the Republicans are a cult. I don’t want to see Democrats acting like a cult too. There is still time (but not a lot) for Democrats to show we are not.
This is where I think I’m ending up, too, after reading and talking with people nonstop since after the debate. The simple fact is Biden is not going to get younger and he’s at the age where decline really starts to accelerate. It’s agonizing but if a replacement (I think Harris is the logical choice, for better or worse) starts to campaign soon, it could work to defeat Trump.
It wouldn’t be messy it would be impossible. There’s absolutely no way to get a primary set up in 6 weeks in time for the Democratic national convention. Which would mean that the delegates would have to have a brokered convention and choose on the floor. Which will go down like a lead balloon for people who did vote in the Democratic primaries earlier this year. Not to mention this imaginary kumbaya moment people still seem to be having about how easy a brokered convention could be where there would be no factions and it would be and easy quick choice. That’s not how life works and it’s sure as hell isn’t how politics work. We’d have the optics of a bunch of people fighting on the floor to get their person to get the nomination which is going to absolutely reassure no voters. Whether the candidates you wanted was on the ballot or not having 2,000 people override the votes of millions of people won’t go down well and won’t get them to vote. Also is ignoring the fact that anytime that we have had a brokered convention you have to go back to the literal 1840s to find where this has happened for Democratic candidate and we still won the election. We’re in unprecedented times but literally everyone who is being clear-headed about it from historians to people on the street are saying it doesn’t make any sense to replace the presumptive nominee in July when the convention is in August. It’s Biden and we can get out the vote and be confident that if he can’t serve his term we’ll have competent and more importantly democracy protecting people in place in his cabinet. That’s not something that we can ever say with Trump.
The people that primary voters should be mad at are the Bidens and their team who deceived them about Joe’s health. And in addition to the deception, the level of entitlement shown by the campaign is breathtaking. That’s what I’m pissed about.
I’m sure you’re right, Dee(2). I just worry that now that his frailty is on display, he won’t win as easily as in 2020. And it wasn’t easy in 2020.
Count me among the bedwetters, I guess 😓
Well that’s where I think we’re in disagreement, I don’t think there’s been any health cover up. I think he’s older and moves slower and had a cold but isn’t markedly different than he’s been for the past few years. The rally literally the next day in North Carolina showed that, where he was still coughing because of his cold. I’ve seen recent press conferences with him like the one where he was coming back from the G7 and spent an hour talking to the press on Air Force one, and he’s not incapacitated in any manner. Is he old? Yes. Do I wish that we had a younger candidate? Yes. That’s why I supported two different younger candidates in 2019 in the primaries. When 20 other people were running for the nomination. But this is who the majority voted for and this is who we have.
@Dee, 🎯
Also: Biden isn’t “clearly ill”; he’s old and he has a stutter. The armchair diagnosticians on this site are 🙄.
I see two big fundamental issues that are made worse by the US 2 party system
1) the enormous chasm between the standards each party has for their top candidate, party platform (and that the media holds them too)
Ie republicans are ride and die for Trump, whatever his flaws, whatever he says, whatever his – literal- crimes against the country, and their platform is whatever he’s spewing at the moment, vs dems who are analyzing every statement position and freak out if it’s not perfect, constantly squabbling, expecting that world hunger, climate change, middle east peace, the border should be solved perfectly, already and Biden is a failure it things aren’t perfect (pre-debate even( they let perfect be the enemy of good)
2) the Democratic party leadership has not done a good job bringing forward their bench, keeping them in the public eye. All the way back to when Biden was elected the first time it seemed like all the other Dems who were in that primary got a memo to not draw attention, not be visible in a super public way … DNC wanted Joe and then “everybody else” Harris is out there, doing stuff, but they haven’t played it up publicaly as much as they should have (especially given Joe’s age and the reality that she was going to be a big deciding factor on the 2024 ticket) The Squad and a handful of progressive dems make noise, Harris, Buttegeig, some of the Dem governors and state level people are all motoring along, doing good work, but it’s like, just with HRC, the Dems focus on one person and have kept everyone else under a barrel so there is no one to distract from Biden as THE guy, for years
So whether it’s now or soon, they haven’t positioned the obvious next person to step up. (And Harris is right there! But the Dem party machine has not lifted her up in that role IMO)
Brassy Rebel, I’ve been amazed with all of this ‘let’s replace Biden stuff’. I watched the debate. You know what I saw? I saw that CNN needs to fire their sound stage engineer and get someone who knows how to turn the volume up on Biden’s microphone. I saw that that Trump was given quite a good makeup artist. I wondered why Biden was given the same. I saw the how the camera framed Trump and then how it framed Biden. Gosh, whooda thunk. It looked like Biden was set up. The fact that he didn’t feel good (he had a cold) didn’t help. I saw the moderators (I use that term loosely) do a poor job. Biden had to make a choice. He needed to decide whether to fact check Trump or answer the questions which would give people what his platform is. I was pleased that there was one adult in the room who actually knew what a debate was. The rest of the people–yes, all of them, didn’t appear to me to know what they were really there for.
Personally, I believe that this whole issue of replacing Biden is simply to weaken the Demo votes. Some in there want to divide the democratic party and those who will vote blue, so that Trump has a better chance of winning.
Biden has some serious arthritis in his lower spine. That’s why he isn’t as agile as he was. I don’t believe his health is an issue. He’s cognitively sharp as ever. People need to recognize a trap when they see one.
CNN has John Malone on it’s Board. He’s a billionaire and here’s what he’s said about CNN:
“I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with, and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing,” he said. Then he suggested a model: “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
So, CNN wants to be the new Fox News. I suggest people think about that.
I want people to think about the fact that the real issue (as others have said) is that they don’t want Kamala Harris as President if Biden steps down anytime during his next term. That’s a pretty powerful motive to get people to change the candidate.
There are over 4000 delegates at the Dem Convention. Biden got 99% of primary voters and they are bound by rule to vote for Biden. The only way the can vote for someone else is if Biden resigns. Who do you think would get the votes to replace him. It would be the biggest sh$t show ever and the Dems would lose for sure. The only time a resumed nominee wasn’t was Humphrey and look how that turned out.
Also no one has a national campaign. that can take over at the drop of a dime. All of Biden’s campaign money he has raised stays with him. It’s naive to think he can be replaced late. Dems have also decided to vote for nominee before the election due to some weird Biden might not be on the ballot in Ohio if they don’t vote early.
To add to why I am absolutely worried: my Never Trump relatives who voted for Biden have now stepped away due to this debate. My family votes. Best-case is third party or not voting. Becoming realistic is a few voting for Trump. Here among the expats I now know of a couple who are leaning towards not voting because this was a disaster and their votes don’t matter. I live in a country that literally voted far right and these Americans don’t all see the parallel. We weren’t allowed to vote for or against Biden in a primary. He didn’t get practice debating, we didn’t choose him, and it seems like the Democratic Party is trying to tell everyone that things are fine when people don’t agree. It’s not inspiring confidence and it comes across as insulting. Be aware that visuals from that debate are about to become very, very familiar courtesy the Republican Party and their political ad machine. Biden is no longer the guy we need to stop Trump.
I have to ask if your never Trump relatives are that way because they find him abhorrent, why would Joe potentially not finishing his term be the thing that stops them? Presidents die in office, in fact it’s happened at least 25% of the time that we’ve had presidents. I’m pretty comfortable and confident that if Joe can’t finish his term because of incapacity or death that his cabinet can step in and lead the country. Why is that not soothing to other people?
> why isn’t that soothing
Because “Vote for me, I might die or become incapacitated in office” isn’t a very inspiring slogan for people who (unlike you and me) aren’t 100% committed to electing Dems/stopping Trump.
Dee(2), I don’t speak “Republican” well if at all, and believe me, I tried years ago to reach people after November 2016. What I’ve found with Never Trumpers is that we have an itsy-bitsy overlap politically speaking, but in a polarized environment, it’s hard to move the needle. That overlap has to do with Trump as a person, but at the same time they like some of his policies. So they see voting D as voting against their interests to a certain extent, but thwarting that Orange Felon is worth it…but not if Biden isn’t up to the job.
@oh come on, but vote for me because this person has literally spelled out how they want to take away all of your rights should be. But I’ve said for years that I don’t understand why people treat electing politicians like choosing their spouse. It’s weird to me how people need to be wined and dined for these candidates. Is person A going to make my life inherently harder than person B? That’s kind of all I need to know. But this phenomenon in addition to the fact that we get most of our news from people who are more invested in ratings than truth is why we’re in the pickle we’re in.
At the end of the day if Joe Biden loses in November he will retire to Delaware with Jill. Probably write a book, probably appear on a few cable news shows. And generally be fine. Can we say the same?
The problem that people have with Biden is that she’s Black.
ML, I wouldn’t worry about one debate. There’s plenty of time between now and November for your relatives to see that Joe is more than capable. Geez, Obama didn’t have this much trouble when he lost the debate in 2012.
the far left and many Zoomers were already pledging not to vote because they’re pissed at Biden for not being tough enough against Israel (and some zoomers, for some strange reason, blame Biden for the state we’re in with reproductive health/Dobbs) knowing it will crown Trump King. There isn’t going to be anyone on the left that will appeal to those people that will also appeal to most mainstream democrats and centrists. Do we need younger blood in the Democratic Party? Of course we do but the reason Biden ended up as the nominee the last time is because there were so many people in the running in the primary and less confidence that anyone but Biden had a shot at winning by appealing to libs, centrists and moderate Republicans. Liberals love nothing more than tearing down the left’s chances with all the infighting and ideological purity tests. The far left seems to think it’s romantic to be forced into a situation in which they become freedom fighters against a dangerous regime instead of recognizing how long it takes to build things up compared to how easy it is to tear things down.
Ironically, Biden’s actually accomplished a lot for the left but he’s not given much, if any, credit for what he’s been able to accomplish despite the GOP’s platform of screwing the country is more important than doing what’s right if a lib might get credit for it, and desire to turn the US into a Christofascist state. I understand the anger and frustration but if/when Trump becomes King, it will take multiple generations for the country to recover (and other countries may well follow down the path of fascism in the not too distant future with the help of Trump and Putin)
Everything you said is spot on and the truth.
Pottymouth Pup you said it all right here. Biden has done more for this Country than any President since I was born (81) and that includes Obama. Obama was amazing and did what he could with the shit he had. Biden inherited even WORSE shit somehow and has done even better. What does that say about our country?? I know EXACTLY what it says about Repubs. They suck and are horrible for this country. I think Zoomers are aware, more than any previous generation, that the GOP is offering up a plate of garbage and expecting us to eat it and smile. But there’s this part: “The far left seems to think it’s romantic to be forced into a situation in which they become freedom fighters against a dangerous regime instead of recognizing how long it takes to build things up compared to how easy it is to tear things down.” This is the naive, idealistic ideal Zoomers are adhering to because they don’t know any better. “The right wants a civil war? Game on!” Their naivety fails to see the dangers in this. And how many of their own generation prescribes to their parents ride-or-die for trump mentality.
Hilary lost all 3 debates, John Kerry lost all debates, Obama was horrible his first debate. Being able to debate is not even a skill you need to run the country. Having competent cabinet appointments and making decisions is what you need most and Biden has been the most effective president since FDR.
Neither Biden nor Trump should be running.
But they are. Deal with that.
Exactly. 🍊 🤡 re-election means Project 2025 and the end of no fault divorce, the end of free access to birth control, the destruction of the environment, evangelical destruction of education, free reign to billionaires and the destruction of the middle class. We are stuck with Biden. We need to push age limits, term limits and supreme court refrom. Biden is the lesser evil.
THIS, we are were we are, stop with the negativity and put those feelings into resources to support!
@Debbie: I am dealing with it. Hopefully Biden wins but at the moment he’s doing everything to lose to Trump imo.
@TN Democrat. Exactly. And say it louder for the people in the back. It sounds like people are trying to justify either not voting or voting for Trump. And not voting is voting for Trump. Yes Biden was horrible in that debate but the next day he sounded good at that rally. He still gets my vote. I had relatives who died from Covid.
Let me also add, that people are acting like everyone will always have the right to vote, when that didn’t happen until the Civil Rights movement led by Black people in the 1960s. And bc the legislating white men didn’t want Black men to have more “rights” than white women, the Voting Rights Act included everyone. People forget that for centuries, only white men in the US could vote, make and pass laws. Now red states are very gerrymandered and voter suppression is widespread and they’re coming up with new ways to further suppress the votes of minorities. Esp since the majority of the Black community votes for Democrats. So please also understand that those people who are voting to “take things/rights” from Black people like DEI etc are voting to have rights taken from all ethnic/minority groups, including white women – most of whom who vote to maintain the status quo ie white supremacy. Civil rights have been attacked for decades but we now have a MAGA led Supreme Court that is showing that they have no problem dismantling democracy and doing away with decades of precedence and progress. MAGA women should be as worried as the rest of us re the threat to democracy due to a recent and bizarre push for a “tradwife” (traditional wife), eliminating no fault divorce, and the increased visibility of the toxic manosphere. Nondenominational congregations should be alarmed at the evangelicals passing laws that force the Ten Commandments legally be posted in PUBLIC schools. A friend got mad at me for firmly endorsing the separation of church and state so I asked her so which religion is the govt going enforce, which part of the Bible should we follow – Old vs New Testament, do we apply all 600+ the Old Testament laws (which includes the Ten Commandments), is she going to fully submit to her husband, and what are the penalties for noncompliance for any or all of these? he was shocked, esp since I was at the time, fully committed to organized religion. I also reminded her that our ancestors were slaves who were beaten and forced to accept Christianity as their religion so I’m firmly against forcing religion on anyone.
ETA- this next election will also determine who appoints more federal judges and possibly more Supreme Court judges (if there are SC vacancies).
I agree. These are the choices, like it or not.
I’m voting for the Biden administration as a whole, and for the slim chance we get another Supreme Court pick, and because the alternative is a true nightmare.
I’m guesstimating bc Amy Bee is doing fine.
I’ll be fine one day soon too.
But if I hear the Dem establishment blame anybody but themselves and the Clintons (but I repeat myself) fir Trump’s re-election,
I will 🤯
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I will obviously be voting for Biden if he remains the candidate, but his team needs to come out with something more convincing than “…but he was whacked out on cold meds, and look how poorly these alternatives are polling!” Show us that Biden is still on the ball, that he still has some righteous anger and fight left in him. To paraphrase Sophia on The Golden Girls, we know his heart is in the right place, but we don’t know where the hell his brain is.
Right now, all I know is that I’m resigned to the fact that, whether we stick with Biden or risk swapping him out on extremely short notice, I am going to wake up every morning between now and Nov. 5 feeling vaguely nauseous. I just want this to be over.
Whatever they do to show us that Biden has functioning brain cells (thanks for the Sophia quote!), they must do it without a teleprompter or notes of any kind. Preferably after 8 pm.
Go watch any of his recent interviews. This site recapped his interview with Howard Stern, with ABC, etc. Ugh.
People need to get over the idea that if there’s something wrong with the man, it’s obvious at all times. All of the venues for the few media interviews he gives are carefully controlled. Democratic members of Congress who have been defending his fitness based on what they have been told by the WH now feel totally betrayed. And they are already facing campaign ads showing them saying Biden is fine juxtaposed with clips from the train wreck when Biden clearly was not fine.
So many things are getting lost in the hysteria, and it’s so frustrating. The debate format was HORRENDOUS. Two minute answers with 1 minute to rebut doesn’t make for any kind of flow and would be tough for anyone, and Joe Biden has NEVER been a straight-to-the-point kind of speaker, plus the stutter. He was over prepared (you could see the facts fighting themselves as he spoke), and messed up. The reaction though is what’s really disheartening: Democrats “quietly panicking” and the media aiming 98% of coverage at Biden and next-to-nothing to Trump’s firehose of BS. Those two things are doing more damage and altering perception more than the debate itself. Biden’s record should, at the very least, earn him the benefit of being able to just mess up. Dems need to shut up and rally, and quit doing maga’s job for them.
Some of the most lucid and fair reaction I’ve seen is this (the first 20 minutes or so, but esp between ~minute 9-19): https://www.nbc.com/deadline-white-house/video/deadline-62824/9000374375
He got better once he got used to the style of the debate and the fact that they were just going to let Trump lie. I think he was thrown they started calling Trump, Mr. President and him Mr. Biden. They also filmed him differently and someone timed how long they got and Trump got more time. The whole thing was messy.
AYFKM?!? They called Trump President and Biden just Mr. Biden???
This speaks volumes. Clyburn/Obama/Hilary Clinton have actually thought things through. No way Trump drops out. Biden (prob. correctly) believes he is the best one to defeat Trump & Biden has a good record. Who are the pundits going to pick after they skip over KH, alienating many voters, including Black voters? Newsom, the ex of Kimberly Guilfoyle, who knows his dirt?
I just saw a Business Insider report that big donors are being told if Biden does leave the race, the money on hand would go to Kamala! I love this and hope it’s true. I’m also glad contingency plans are being made. But if Biden decides to stand down and endorses Kamala as his successor, I think we all could get behind her and not worry about any more debates or Biden speaking without a teleprompter. I know she gets labeled “polarizing”. All Dem women do. But at this point, I think her chances of beating Trump in the election and the next debate, are much better than Biden’s.
Respectfully, this is full on fantasy. First, Biden would not choose, the delegates at the convention would choose. The delegates are NOT going to select Kamala because racism and sexism. But let’s assume she was chosen. She would lose by a large margin because, again, racism and sexism. Not only that, large swaths of the Black community, the very people responsible for getting Biden nominated in the first place would sit out because that is simply out and out betrayal. The idea that with four months to go, a small group of delegates selecting the next presidential candidate and everyone is just going to fall in line and vote for this unicorn? It’s a wet dream for Trump. We need to be pragmatic here and like it or not, Biden is the pragmatic choice. The poll numbers are starting to come in and at least the early ones are showing that yes, more people are concerned about his stamina and cognitive fitness. BUT and this is what really matters, they still think he can beat Trump and will vote for him. There is no magical candidate. It would absolutely splinter the vote at this point. I wish Biden wasn’t so old. I was devastated after the debate. Depressed, morose, scared. But not anymore. I’m supporting Biden the way MAGA supports Trump. and in November hold my head high when I enter the polling place to vote for him.
https://www.salon.com/2024/07/01/the-drop-out-debate-biden-has-already-lost-a-big-part-of-the-battle/
This changes things for me: Let’s go Kamala! I don’t think she’s polling well in swing states we need for the win and my Asian family is livid about Palestine, but given a choice between Biden who’s age is catching up to him and Harris, then it’s clear that we want someone capable of doing all aspects of the job.
And once again Black people listened and heard the racism and lies and white people are screaming abandon ship.
Yep.
As I said before, I would never depend on white people ever for my rights, holy crap if some of you were around during the Civil Rights Era Black people would still be living under Jim Crow.
Debates don’t win shit. Hillary won every debate with Trump and still lost. Biden “beat” Trump at every debate and not one of the GOP demanded he drop out. They applauded that MF after the latest debate though he lied, rambled, and was a full blown mask off racists. I love that the white people in America decided if you are not perfectly articulate at all times, you need to lose your job.
Also, this country is racist as hell and Kamala Harris who the media has been kneecapping for the past four years will not win. And also you are going to enrage a ton of Black people who will sit the hell home and leave you to yourselves. The SCOTUS just ruled being homeless is a crime! Walked back again 20 damn years of standing and paved the way due to that to come at people about birth control and the morning after pill!
The GOP already said they are going to come for a national abortion ban! They want to overturn gay marriage!
UGH!
Exactly. It’s fine to dump your disappointment in a safe place like a comment forum you trust. You gotta let it out because we all know it wasn’t good. But my goodness, the fickleness of people. This is when courage matters, folks. Support Biden the way MAGA supports trump. Do that and there is no doubt Biden can win.
I may lack courage, as you say, but behaving like a cult member the way MAGA’s do is hardly courageous. And a lot of people here seem to think that because they see the danger of Trump, everyone must. Obviously, everyone doesn’t or this election wouldn’t be close. People are on the fence. I have no idea why but plenty are. So telling people who do see the danger to get behind Biden is a waste of space. And telling people who saw the Thursday night dumpster fire that everything’s just fine because Biden has such great people around him (you know, the ones who have been keeping him away from public scrutiny) is not going to win many votes. And we are many votes behind in places we badly need.
I’m here to back up Brassy Rebel on this. My friends are Democrats. The expats I interact with where I live are Democrats. I have mostly Democratic family and some Never Trump relatives and some Trump Republican relatives. Granted, these are bubbles, but among the Ds I know, Biden was never a popular choice. That was what it was until he messed up his debate and tanked his Trump-killer reputation. The D base would need to be turbocharged to win this election with Ds alone, and we need those swing states. Debate Biden won’t win that. We have known that since 2016 not everyone thinks and votes like us. And, frankly, yelling at those people doesn’t convince them otherwise.
Tomorrow the far right government where I live will be sworn into office. The continent where I live is following suit. The one effing thing I want to prevent in my homeland is that Orange disaster doing the same.
Then call me delusional for Biden then because I’m all in. I saw the same debate as everyone and promise you I went through all of the same emotions. However, if anyone thinks that selecting another candidate now and getting enough people to vote that person in is a winning strategy, then we are truly lost. And for everyone wanting Kamala? How I WISH it could be the case, but it will not be. She won’t be selected and she wouldn’t win even if she were. It’s not like Biden is out here by himself and doesn’t have a great team behind him. He does. This isn’t even about Biden for me, it’s about who can get the most votes. If I thought it someone else could and not splinter the vote I’d be all in. Had someone else won in the primaries, I’d be all in. But a convention choice is not it. And like I said above, it would be a huge effing mistake to betray the Black voting bloc who put Biden in office in first place if the delegates choose someone else other than Kamala. I have no idea why people aren’t paying attention this this part. One debate doesn’t not kill Biden regardless of what anyone tells you and how much the media is focusing on it.
She’s saying that cause she knows that Black people and other BIPOCs are going to feel the effects first. You keep publishing BS that has been rebutted time and time again. And no, the freaking convention “choosing” kamala Harris will not go over well. THIS COUNTRY IS RACIST AND SEXIST and tons of white women would not vote for Kamala Harris, definitely not a white men. That’s where we are.
Reading twitter has been GLORIOUS this past weekend.
@WalkingTheWalk 💯 I still remember how the Dems abandoned Obama after the voters gave them full control of the presidency and both levels of Congress. Senator Al Franken stepped down after the Dems abandoned him while the Repubs kept all of their degenerates at that time and presently. Now all of the scandal ridden elected officials desperately cling to power and refuse to step down.
Spot on, Walking! It’s amazing how quickly people are ready to jump ship. Get your sh*t together people before you hand our country over to the felon.
Thanks Chantal and Tate. I have noticed that once again everyone is ignoring the fact that 14 million people voted for Biden knowing his age and have watched his speeches, his debates, his SOTU and now all of a sudden he has dementia. It’s gross and awful those comments are being left up here.
Thanks @Walking. You summed up my thoughts very concisely indeed.
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The Democrats need to suck it up and pull together. Otherwise we will not have to worry about Trump defeating Biden, we will defeat ourselves. It’s too late to switch to someone else. There is no mythical candidate that can be vetted and agreed upon in less than 5 months. Biden has done a great job this past 3 years, despite a horrible congress and court system. As my pastor said “Con men are always great talkers, it’s what they do”. Trump has been a con man for 50 years, so he’s had a lot of practice.
All of you bed wetter’s better get it together and start to get behind Joe, he is going to be the choice, after the ruling today we created a king.
The immunity ruling does do that, except now that Chevron’s gone scotus can decide whatever the truth they want after calling it an ambiguity.
All Official Acts of the President are immune and can’t be charged. Also, they can’t even be used as evidence of criminal conduct, sounds pretty close to a dictatorship to me.
Agreed LBB. There’s arguable ambiguity in what the Official Acts are, the courts wouldn’t look at it kindly if Biden used Seal Team 6 to take care of a particular convicted felon even if he does give away military and intelligence secrets. Logic goes on holiday for that guy.
So seriously, why doesn’t President Biden, as an OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL ACT to preserve democracy, take out Drumpf and as many of his minions as possible. It reads like the supreme court has handed him that opportunity just in time! (sadly, only partially joking)
The only replacement I want is at the top of the judiciary and a certain Florida judge.
This man’s legacy will forever take my breath away.
I’ll never, ever forget how seismic his force was and is.
Sometimes when I’m feeling blue, I’ll listen to one of his most famous speeches he gave during his time in the spotlight – ‘Yes We Can’
His personal power, his cadence, his raw beauty will always overwhelm my sensibilities.
And yes, I would vote for him again even though I’m very aware of the price we paid for doing so.
My light will always shine back to him.
Adding to my comment that I am so profoundly heartbroken at the state of US Democracy.
I had to pull away from viewing and reading because I was making myself sick.
I did so December 2022.
I’m trying to take care of a couple of legal things before November.
My terror is simmering on my back burner.
I do believe in the magic of the universe.
Yet I also believe in fate.
Being a carry carrying Wichita tribal member, my ancestors taught me about the White Man world.
So I’m never truly surprised at the inhumanity and cruelty.
And, yes. Cruelty is the point and this is coded within the DNA of those in power.
It’s not just eye color and skin type.
It is also psychology as well as inherent, privileged beliefs.
Long time reader of this site, first time commenter.
I have voted in EVERY election for way longer than I have been reading this site. Sometimes we do not get to “vote for,” our ideal candidate, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t vitally important to “vote against.” If voters who value democracy in the United States and who do not support the plans outlined in Project 2025 do not “vote against” Donald Trump this November, we may not get another chance to vote, at least on the Federal level, in our lifetimes. This election is that important. We narrowly lived through January 2017-January 2021, we remember what that was like. The next time WILL BE WORSE. Remember, and VOTE.
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Ok, so I’ve worked campaigns and have friends in the business. If Biden drops out or is forced out, you can kiss the base of the party goodbye and Democratic candidates will not win elections for a generation or more. Trust me on this.
None of the replacement (white) candidates would beat Trump and the base would rightly see this as a huge betrayal of VP Harris. And if you think the media et al, would back off on her if she’s in the top spot, then let me know if it rains on your planet.
A lot of these party “elites” don’t like Biden. Too long a post for here but suffice it to say that he’s never been a “kiss ass” and he’s made a lot of them look stupid over the years. Especially during the Obama administration.
All of this! I have worked in proximity to people and firms who conduct voter focus groups. People can demand Gavin Newsom all they want, but he is similar to Bernie Sanders in what I call a mirage candidate — someone media savvy that gives the public illusion of being really liked and desired by voters. But just like Sanders, all the focus group data I have seen shows he has weaknesses with segments of Democratic voters and is even more disliked by Independents. Then you have someone like Whitmer would have to really, really hustle to build national name recognition.
One data point so many people are unaware of is that successful presidential candidates, more likely than not, have attempted to run a few times before clinching the nomination — and that includes Trump. Some candidates circumvent that name recognition issue by being a previous VP — e.g. Gore, Bush Sr, and Biden. Other than VP Harris, the dream “Biden replacement” would have huge obstacles to overcome and would handily give Trump advantages, even if Biden hypothetically said last year he wasn’t running again.
Even with acknowledging Biden’s issues, there is so much conjecture here not rooted in data, it’s alarming. Even Alan Lichtman, the man who successfully predicted almost every election since 1984, is starting to get agitated with inflammatory media rhetoric and has called this out at an unprecedented rate I’ve never seen him do before. He’s indicators favor Biden at the moment and he says replacing him would ruin the party’s chances in November. I’d rather listen to him over Chicken Little Dem elites.
Vote blue Vote Biden. It’s a choice of good or evil. I will say this though. My party needs to get their shit together. In 4 years the Dems need unified solid choices. Several and yes they need to be center or this will keep happening.
I can’t even look at President Obama without falling in love with him again. For eight years while he was president I had his picture hung up in my classroom the entire time. What a man. What a president. What a stand-up guy. He’s the walking definition of integrity and excellence.
Michelle is one lucky woman. And we were lucky that she was willing to share him for eight years.
Where is everyone?! Now is the time for all of them to start getting out there on the campaign trail and supporting Joe – Bill & Hill, Secretary Pete, Amy Klobuchar, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Andrew Cuomo, Al Gore……. Even George W! The Bush family hates the Trumps and that might push some Repubs our way.